The Bootycast Episode 12 – El Topo Breaks Some Dicks
September 2, 2010 by Thundercat
Filed under Podcasts
We had a great time with the Bootycast this week with our special guest, El Topo.
In this week’s podcast, we talk about a lot of different topics, including:
- Group sex with tons of dudes
- Thundercat’s one-dick policy
- El Topo’s relationship with Sinn
- Why Sinn is a douchebag to everyone he knows
- Zan’s seduction philosophy
- Token Asian PUA asks El Topo what type of dicks white women prefer
- Advice on how to transition from a Facebook close to a real meeting
- Advice for picking up women in college
- Getting sued for passing STD’s
- Sinn’s drunk Tweets
- Thundercat’s and AFC Adam’s secret
- And more!
To check out this week’s podcast, you can download it or listen to it by clicking here.
Why do you get girls more easily when you’re not trying?
August 11, 2010 by Thundercat
Filed under Articles
Zan has an excellent article on his Natural Game forum about why guys get girls easier when they aren’t really trying.
Fellow Pirates,
Have you ever noticed how when you’re not trying to pick up girls, they seem to be more interested in you? And when you deliberately try, it’s like they scatter away. There’s been many ways to explain this, (inner game issues, outcome attachment, a sixth sense that girls have, etc) I have been thinking about this for a few days, letting it brew since I got the original idea. I think there’s a scientific basis for it. Let me try and set this up for you so it makes sense.
I just finished reading a book by Daniel Pink called Drive, which is essentially a book on motivation. I don’t intend to summarize the whole book in one paragraph but I will give you a brief introduction. Pink introduces the idea of Motivation 2.0 which is the rewards/punishment model of behavioral psychology (he calls it carrots and sticks) and he makes the case that it is an outdated model that no longer works in our current business climate.
He then talks about a new kind of motivation, dubbed 3.0, which centers on the research of Edward Deci and Self-Determination Theory (SDT) Essentially this new model of motivation is based on 3 core needs all humans have in order to enjoy what they do. They are: Autonomy (to have the freedom to set your own schedule and choose your own projects), Mastery (to get better at something) and Purpose (to have your work mean something)
What researchers have found through experiments is that Motivation 2.0 works really well for tasks that are algorithmic in nature. So if a job is comprised of a series of steps that are clearly laid out, then carrots and sticks work really well, that is the larger the reward, the better the performance. However, this model falls really short when tasks are creative in nature, require conceptual thinking and are not clearly laid out. In fact it falls really flat. Time and time again, researchers found that the large reward cripples people’s ability to do even simpler tasks like solving a puzzle.
In fact there are several well-documented averse effects that rewards/punishments introduce when dealing with creative tasks: (I’m only listing the ones that are relevant to the discussion here as we’ll see in a bit)
1) First rewards/punishments really crush creativity and ingenuity.
2) Second, they can extinguish intrinsic motivation, so the activity becomes more work and less fun.
3) It narrows down thinking and encourages cheating, shortcuts and unethical behavior (like a salesperson lying to you so he can make his quota)
4) It fosters short-term thinkingSo how is this relevant to our discussion?
When we look at the idea of attracting women, do you think that it’s an algorithmic (i.e. step by step) type of task or a more creative type of task? Regardless of what PUA’s tell you, I would argue that it’s more of a creative task requiring ingenuity, wit, creativity, etc. There is no system that is clearly laid out, step by step that will guarantee results.
Now, assuming this, when you go out with the sole purpose of approaching women or picking up women, what type of motivation do you have in mind? Again, I would argue that you’re operating more out of a reward/punishment mindset where the reward is sex (or maybe a relationship) and the punishment is loneliness.
Given this, it’s no wonder that your tongue gets tied and you’re stuck trying to think of what to say next. Your brain has a clear destination in sight and is asking for the algorithm (the formula) of how to get there!! All your creativity is gone and if you try to do this all the time, as many PUA’s say you should practice relentlessly, then it slowly starts to feel like work and it’s no longer fun. And the most dangerous part is that you’re now thinking short-term and you tend to disregard longer term consequences. You want to get laid and you’ll do it at any cost, thus behavior such as trying to get the girl drunk or trying to force her (unethical behavior) definitely comes to mind!! If you’re a good guy, you’ll just leave frustrated.
This is also known as being attached to the outcome, but given the rewards/punishment model and 30+ years of scientific research to back it up, it’s a lot simpler to understand if seen in this light.
On the other hand, when you’re out having fun and not even thinking about pick-up, you’re being yourself, your entire creative mind is available to you so you’re naturally witty, charming and creative, and if the reward doesn’t even enter your mind (or you somehow DON’T think of sex as a reward) then you’re free to act as you please and things end up in intimacy it’s no big deal.
It’s the equivalent of the painter who’s painting for fun rather than for a commissioned piece. He doesn’t know where the painting is going to end up, he has no fixed end in sight and is simply enjoying the process but is tweaking as he goes. Research in fact found the pieces produced through this process were seen as much better work (and thus of higher value) by art appraisers than pieces that were paid for in advance.
In conclusion, we’re faced with the question of “How do you implement this in a way that reverses the negative effects of reward/punishment thinking and act more naturally?”
I only have two ideas, but am leaving this open for discussion:
1) Don’t focus on sex or relationship as a reward and loneliness as punishment. Go out there with the focus on having fun and enjoying yourself, not to run game.
2) Change the meaning of sex/relationship from a reward you get to something that happens. It’s not the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Sure it’s hard to ignore horniness when you see lots of scantily clad young women throwing their sexuality around like a status symbol. When sex is no longer a reward or loneliness no longer a punishment you’re finally free.
This is just a hypothesis of mine and clearly not a scientific theory so take it with a grain of salt. It’s just a different way of thinking that maybe will help you answer the question of what to do or understand what people mean by “just be yourself” or “do whatever you feel like doing”
As always, excellent advice from Zan. :-)
The Top 10 Pick Up Artists Of 2008
January 9, 2009 by Thundercat
Filed under Top 10 Lists
Welcome one and all to the Top 10 list of best Pick Up Artists for the year 2008!
2008 was a strange year – for me personally, and for a lot of others, I think. In many ways, I’m glad the year is over. But regardless of how good of a year it was, there were many people in the seduction community who continued to rise above petty squabbles and drama and actually help other men improve their lives and their success with women, and this list is a CELEBRATION of those men, who have helped others throughout the past year.
For those of you new to the list, let me explain how the rankings work. It becomes very easy to get “caught up” in the hype of certain personalities, so I try and rank the Top 10 based on a number of criteria, which I believe must be present to be considered a good “PUA.” So all of this years winners were ranked based on:
1. In-Field Performance. This is basically the skills the PUA displays in the field with women. Most Top 10s deal with this factor exclusively, but I’ve found that just looking at a guy’s in-field performance can be misleading, since people have off-nights or can get lucky. That said, their ability to use the techniques in field repeatedly and consistently to get results is a big, big factor in the ranking process.
2. Innovations. This is what new outlook or techniques the PUA brings to the table. It’s easy for any new guy to get good using Mystery Method or any other school of seduction, but then again, that stuff is designed to work! So being innovative and bringing a new twist, spin, philosophy, technique, or whatever to the mix is also a big deal, because that means the PUA actually has something to contribute to his students and the community as a whole that no one else does.
3. Teaching Ability. This is how effectively the PUA can teach what he does to other people, and have them get similar results. This is another important factor, because it weeds out the people who are just the lucky naturals, and finds the PUAs who have something to offer humanity as a whole. After all, I don’t care if a guy gets laid a lot. I care if that guy can get ME laid a lot – and I think the same is true for you. That is why I factor in the PUA’s ability to teach others into the ranking.
4. Contributions To The Community. This is a measure of how much the PUA “gives back” to others in the seduction community. This factor is all about the PUA’s willingness to help others, the knowledge and experience he’s willing to share, and the compassion he shows to those who need help. Too many PUAs look down on people not as successful with women as they are, and that’s not what the seduction community is about, so giving back to it should play a factor, in my opinion.
5. Philosophy. This comes down to the PUA’s outlook on life, women, and other men in general. It’s about how they live their lives, and whether they’re consistent with it. Some PUAs spout great philosophy, but don’t really believe in it or practice it. But it’s that core foundations which will influence their students, so I believe this is important in factoring the rankings.
6. Likability. One of the things I base my ranking on is whether I actually like the PUA or not. This is a subjective thing, but I feel its important, because there’s usually a reason I don’t like someone, and that reason has to do with them being a fake, fraud, evil bastard, or what have you. I like to think I have a fairly decent “B.S. Radar,” so when I meet a PUA in person, I can usually tell if they are legit or not after getting to know them, which is why I tend to rank PUAs I have actually met in real life. If I haven’t met them, I need to get good feedback from at least 3 sources I trust to make the decision to rank them in this category.
Okay, so now that you know how I rank the list, let’s get to it! Read more
The First REAL Movie Based On The Community?
August 20, 2008 by Thundercat
Filed under News
We all know that The Game was optioned by a studio to be turned into a movie, and like many other books got stuck in development hell, so my guess is we probably won’t see a movie based on Neil Strauss’s book anytime soon.
However, there is another movie out there called Let The Game Begin, and it looks like it actually has some “real” actors in it. You can check out the trailer for it here.
Oddly enough, I actually took my first ever Mystery Method workshop with the producer of this movie in 2003. You can definitely see some Mystery Method influence in the trailer, even down to the Matador lookalike pick-up guy.
From what I know, the movie is about a loser “AFC” who learns how to be a ladies man and uses his social skills to help him in business. Now, the movie doesn’t look all that great (in fact, some of the club/pick up stuff is kind-of painful to watch in the trailer) but what the heck? Any movie with Stephen Baldwin in it is worth checking out, right?
As a quick side note – Zan is also in the movie playing HIMSELF (of course). He’s even in the trailer for a moment. Leave it to Zan, that pimp. =)
What do you guys think of the movie? Would you go see it?
Initial Fear of the Approach
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/22/03
Someone on the DC list asked a pretty good question about approaching and fear of the approach. They talked about how hard it was to approach women initially in SS. I think this is a pretty valid point, because the first stage in anyone’s development as a seducer or pick-up artists is to learn how to approach girls.
Speaking as someone who comes from an SS background, I can feel for guys who are going through this. IMO, SS is one of the WORST systems for helping guys learn to cold approach. When I was just doing strict SS, I could not cold-approach to save my life. In fact, some of the best Speed Seducers I know cannot cold approach. They get most of their lays through social circles or the internet. That said, cold approaching is just very hard in general.
The best way to get over this, in my opinion, is to attend an in-field workshop. I know there was one in DC recently taught by Tyler Durden. Nothing helps more than having live, in-field instruction and demonstration by experienced people who can help you troubleshoot and guide you through the process. The only people doing this currently that I know of is Tyler Durden, Mystery, Badboy, and Harmless, who will be starting his workshops up in the coming months. That said, workshops are very “shit or get off the pot” in their nature. They will kick-start you into approaching, but they are NOT very conducive to mental masturbators and armchair seducers, so be sure you are prepared for it.
Short of that, hooking up with other guys who do this stuff is the best way to go. I know a lot of guys in the DC area are getting together on a regular basis to wing each other, which is a great way to learn. I started up my own lair in LA to help me out. Sometimes, just having others to talk to about this shit is good to help increase your skills.
The hardest part about approaching is just overcoming that fear of rejection. We all become so conditioned to avoiding emotional pain, that we get that knot in our stomachs every time we are about to talk to a girl we find attractive. The best guys I’ve seen at this have no fear of approaching because they are able to detach themselves from the outcome. Whenever you see a beautiful girl you wanna bang, you give her a lot of sexual power over you, which you then have to go about trying to regain in order to effectively sarge her.
What I’m doing in my game right now is getting to the point where I do not feel the need to give the girl that power. Where my inner game has hit such a level that I do not have to get validation from a girl. Its a tough thing to do, and something I’m struggling with. But all I have to do is look at someone like Zan, who is completely free of all that bullshit, to the point where he naturally attracts people to him. Its a very powerful and congruent way to live your life.
I’ll probably talk about this more later. Right now I gotta run. Gonna hang out with my brother and his hippy friends.
Thundercat
Feminator Returns
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Drama & Rumors
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/22/03
We all have our favorite loonies that post on mASF. I know Tyler is fond of one dude in particular, and Stevie PUA has his personal fav. Mine is FEMINATOR. His massive need for qualification and aspirations for guru-hood in a community that accounts for less than 0.0000000001% of the population is nothing short of entertaining. Recently, he took a bit of a powder after his last $$$$$$ post broke the camel’s back and caused a number of flames pointed his way (I mean honestly, the signal to noise ratio was just too high). Anyway, his absence was noticed, leading to posts such as this one by zane:
Topic: Where did FERMINATOR go? (1 of 1), Read 131 times
Conf: >> General
From: zane
Date: Monday, December 22, 2003 12:25 PMWTF happened to all that MONEY shit from Ferminator???
IS he still ,alive??
But apparently, he spoke too soon, because FEMINATOR is back, with a vengeance. Here’s his latest $$$$$$$ post for your enjoyment:
Topic: FEMINATOR IS BACK! MALL’S ARE MONEY (1 of 13), Read 417 times
Conf: >> General
From: feminator 15081978@bluewin.ch
Date: Sunday, December 21, 2003 05:45 PMAfter clubbing a lot for many years i realized, that clubs are not a good place for meeting top quality women, because they have always the whole defense up.
-Bitch shields (because they expect it)
-Anti slut defense (because of other people, they know)
-Girlfriends (girlscode, drag away)
-AMOGS and BFOther important facts are …
-Bad chick ratio
-Not every chick goes to the clubs.
-Too many man
-Drugs, alcohol etc.
-Drinks and clubs are not cheap
-Loud music
-At fuck close time, it’s often already 4-6 AM
-Chicks are sometimes also tired in clubs and therefore you can’t game them, especially on Friday.I also realized, that in clubs are not a lot of possibilities to do interesting things, except sarging.
For somebody, who doesn’t drink, smoke, take drugs or dance, the clubs are a boring place…
Sarging remains the only reason for going to clubs…
Of course it’s possible to game them in clubs, but i found a far better place to find much more and better chicks.
*****************************************************
**********The shopping malls are $$$**********************
*****************************************************-Good chick ratio. Every chick goes to the malls…
-Chicks are often isolated in shopping malls, therefore no bitch shields or ASD.
-Chicks are not tired and easier to game
-Fuck close time is normally after 8 PM, when the malls close here in Zurich, instead of 4 – 6 AM, so i have more time for good sex.
-Often no negative girlscode.
-Very likely no BF or AMOGS.
-Good insta date possibilities like …
… Shopping togetherThen when the malls close at 8 PM …
… Cinema is at 8.30 PM
… After work parties from 7 PM
… Lunch or dinnerMy latest opener …
… I prepared a paper bag in a way, i can open the bottom and everything falls on the floor. Haha, they always help me to collect all the things.
… I also prepared a suitcase in the same way. I often put pictures of my hottest GF. When they help me collecting the picture, i tell them the story about my Ex-Girlfriend, who went to London for modelling … Hahah, they always help me to collect the pictures.
… I also create instant accident with cans, clothes etc.
For example I prepare a can tower in a way, that all the cans fall on the floor, when the HB passes. Then she feels guilty. Of course i help her then. (Not field tested)I create a small accident with some cans and boxes. They always help me to collect the cans. (Field tested)
Then i tell them:”Do you believe in the destiny?”
HB:”Bla bla.”
FEM:”If you look back in 2 years to this day, you will realize, that just of a couple of cans, you whole live changed. My name is Feminator from ASF ”I do a lot of opinion opener …
“Hey HB (‘s) i need a quick female opinion ….
It opens always. Often i add, that the saleswomen are bad girls, because they lie… Then i tell them a funny story about a really bad saleswomen. Or i ask them, if they are a saleswomen. If they say no, i say:”Very good, because i need a neutral female opinion…”
Or can you help me opener …
“Hey HB i need your help …”
“Do you know, where …”
On the shopping mall insta date, i have always a lot of fun. For example, we check out new clothes together. Then venue change to another mall (Foot in the door principle, are you adventurous enough, then cinema or bar)
In busy times i sarge the customers. In quiet times i sarge the saleswomen, which i use also next time, when it’s busy for social proof.
PS: WHEN WILL BE THE RELEASE OF TFM 2.0 ???????????????? I heard in an old post from PORNHANDLE 25.12.03.
****************************************************
If you want to read the whole thread, it can be found at:
http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?120723,8
The thing I find funny about the above post that poor old FEM doesn’t seem to get — in fact, a lot of people don’t seem to get this — is that you should not be going out in the world with the specific intent to “Pick-Up.” That’s lame. That’s one of the reasons I laugh at SS nowadays. Who wants to go to a coffee shop/grocery store/yoga class or whatever just to meet women? I find that incredibly stupid.
If I’m going to a coffee shop, its to get coffee. If I go to a grocery store, its to get groceries. If I’m going to a yoga class (which I would never do) its to learn yoga. And if I go to a mall, its to shop. Any sarging to be done is strictly Targets of Opportunities. As far as bars/clubs go, I do not SPECIFICALLY go out to bars and clubs to sarge. I go there to have fun, and to me, part of the fun is trying to pick-up chicks — being social.
This realization came upon me when I was in Chicago and got to see Zan, Craig, and Maddash out on the town. These guys did not go to these bars to “sarge” or “pick-up.” They went out there to hang out together, get drunk, and have fun. The by-product of that was picking-up on chicks. When I have gone out and just been social, (i.e. drinking, dancing, talking, laughing, ball-busting — what have you) I have been SO MUCH MORE successful than going out with the SPECIFIC intent to sarge.
That’s something guys who are new at this don’t quite have an understanding of yet. A lot of this comes from “inner game.” It’s that bit about being “desire-less.” Not wanting what you really want. Its fucked-up, yes, but in a way its necessary to feel that way if you want to get REALLY good at it. Its almost like saying “Just be yourself.” The trick is, you have to first BECOME the kind of person who naturally does this, and THAT is the hard part. That is what no in-field workshop or phone consultation or hypnosis will teach you.
I’ve spent 4 years working on my inner game, and I’m just now feeling that its at the point where I’m actually starting to change. 4 YEARS, fellas. I’ve had to wade through a lot of deep psychological shit to get to where I am now. We’re talking things that would have made Freud ditch coke for heroine, its so fucked-up. But it all works out.
I’ll probably talk about this more in an article I plan on writing on Inner Game. The more people I meet who are genuinely good at this, the more I realize it has to do with inner game and where you’re coming from. So many people just want the next new “trick” or “method” or whatever. Look at this Feminator guy for crying out loud. He’s all about the gimmicks, the tricks, the routines, etc. What he fails to understand is that all that stuff springs forth from your inner self. I’ve seen some guys who have TONS of shit memorized, and they can do a pick-up quite well, but when it comes to Day 2, or Day 3, or even RELATIONSHIPS, they lose the chick, because they run out of material. They don’t have their inner game congruent with their outter game.
Enough rambling. I’ll post my inner game article here when I get done with it.
Thundercat
PS: Just remembered, I should probably thank Swinggcat for a lot of this. He’s very much into the whole “inner game” thing and it has been the subject of many conversations I’ve had with him. In fact, it probably wouldn’t be on my mind as much if it wasn’t for him, even though I’ve been very much into it since my return from Las Vegas. Maybe he’ll do something on it in an upcoming newsletter which will blow anything I write on it out of the water. =)
The Top 10 Pick-Up Artists Of 2003
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis, Top 10 Lists
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03
Okay, so the debate has been raging for a while now over who is the best PUA (Pick-Up Artist) out there. Obviously, a lot of egos are involved in this statement, and everyone has their own opinions about who the best really is. In fact, its so subjective, that I don’t really think there will ever be a clear and honest answer on the subject. Its like asking who the best warrior or soldier is in a war. But the fact of the matter remains, no one can ever ALWAYS be the best. They’re always going to have their off days — be a little bit slow, a little bit late, a little bit unprepared or caught off guard. But that doesn’t stop some people from categorizing the people in our little community as “The Best.” So I’ve decided to throw my hat in the ring and rate the top 10 PUAs operating out there.
However, only the people I have met personally are eligible for my list. There could very well be many great PUAs out there that beat these guys out, but I have not met them and cannot verify their skills personally, so they are off my list for now, though I will mention a few afterwards who I think are worthy of it. Also, my rankings are not based on sheer skill alone, rather, they are based on consistency, and what I have seen as far as how often they are practicing what they preach. So keep that in mind as we go through this.
Thundercat’s Top 10 Pick-Up Artist
1. Style: Style is definitely, hands down, bar none, the best operating in the game today. This guy is probably the most evil, sneaky, manipulative bastard I have ever seen in operation. The thing is, this guy comes in totally under the radar, and that is why he is so dangerous. His subtlety is so amazing, that before you know it, you are qualifying yourself to him and he has you right where he wants you. And the thing is, he does it with both girls AND guys. No one is safe. To give you an idea of how incredible Style is, he’s practically invented most of the techniques a lot of the top guys, like Mystery and Tyler Durden, are using and teaching. He is practically Machiavellian in nature, and is someone I both admire and fear. I should also point out that I have a special, non-gay, place in my heart for this man, because it was with his help that I broke down my barrier with approaching women, so I owe a lot of my current game and success to Style, which is another reason why I rate him #1.
2. Swinggcat: Swinggcat comes in at a close second, and would in fact probably be number one if it weren’t for the fact that that he is a better looking guy than Style. Swinggcat is a pretty hip looking (think a shorter version of Vince Vaughn in Swingers and you get a rough idea of what Swinggcat looks like), whereas Style is a skinny, bald, jewish guy. Swinggcat is just as evil, sneaky, and manipulative, but considering what Style has to overcome in the looks department, that puts his game above Swingg’s. That said, I have seen Swinggcat in action on numerous occasions and am amazed at a lot of his game. The way he is able to process and sum up the information girls give him and turn their frame around is truly a sight to see. Not only that, he is so intuative, he can make up cold readings on the fly and be almost 100% accurate, which is fuckin’ creepy. His book only scratches the surface of his vast knowledge, and I think we’ll be getting a lot of good (and evil) stuff from his upcoming newsletters.
3. Zan: Zan is not a name that is very well known in the community, but having met the guy and seen him in action, I am convinced he is one of the top dudes out there when it comes to picking up chicks. In fact, I’d have even placed him at number 1 if it wasn’t for the fact that this guy is a “natural” seducer, and therefore what he does cannot be taught to others. But in accordance with the sheer skill of his game, he lays all others flat on their back. The thing is, the guy looks like a male model. He’s 40 years old, but looks like he’s 20. He actually USED to be a model, in fact, back in France in the 80′s I think, and his girlfriend was Monica Bellucci of the Matrix fame (hey, don’t hate the player, hate the game =). Currently, the guy has between 6 and 9 hot ass girlfriends who ALL know about each other, and apparently he enjoys many 3-somes and fuck buddies to boot. Not only that, but Zan has one of the most amazing philosophies on life I have ever heard. He spends his time moving towards beauty and away from things that are not beautiful. I hung out with the guy for only 3 days, but I am secure enough in my masculinity to say that if I was a chick, I’d have been all over him. Probably the coolest guy in the community. He was on stage at the Chicago DYD seminar, and if David DeAngelo ever decides to sell the audio to that thing, you’ll get a real treat hearing Zan speak about inner game. Simply amazing.
4. Maddash: Maddash, like Zan, is also a successful, good looking, older guy. He’s a big proponant of the “No Game” game, which is pretty much emulating the behaviors of “naturals,” such as Zan, and because of that, Maddash’s game comes off as very subtle and natural. When I saw him in action I was very impressed. It seems like he gets a new girl every night. The thing about Maddash is that his life is not ruled by PUA, he is very much into business and athletics as well. Pick-up is just a small factor of his life, but one he strives to perfect — and boy, does he do a good job at it.
5. Craig: Craig probably deserves to be higher on the list, but unfortuneately, I think the four people above him beat him as far as technique goes. That said, Craig is VERY good. He is the king of the short-set method. This is basically where you approach a set of women, say something funny/amusing, then move onto the next set and repeat. Its a very good way of being social and works great in bar scenes. Its also good for creating social proof. Craig is also a very funny guy, and his dancing skills help attract attention from others (in a good way, mind you). The quality of women Craig gets is quite high. I have yet to see him with a girl I would rank lower than a 9 on the looks scale. Not only that, but he seems to get them pretty consistantly. However, the fact that he comes off as a good looking frat guy, the fact that he has appeared on Elimidate, and the fact that he lives on a beach, are all contributing factors to his success — but that does not take away from the fact that he is very skilled. He is also one of the few PUAs I’ve seen that can do all his shit effectively while drunk. He was also on stage at the Chicago DYD seminar, so you may hear stuff from him fairly soon.
6. Mystery: Okay, I know Mystery is gonna be pissed that I rank him so low (or not. He probably doesn’t give a shit what I think. Can ya blame him?), but in my opinion, for as good as Mystery is, the other 5 guys are better. The thing about Mystery is that he’s incredibly good at raising his value in other’s eyes. I’ve seen him pull off some amazing instances of social proof with his magic tricks, and he is incredibly entertaining, funny, and exciting. Its easy to get caught up in Mystery’s spell. That said, the reason I rate him #6 is because I do not feel his long game is very good. I always get the sense that Mystery has a hard time genuinely connecting with people, and this effects his long term relationships. It seems like he can be very insecure at times and needs constant validation from others, which leads to a lot of mind games that get him his validation, but at the same time succeeds in pushing people away from him. Whether or not this is intentional, I don’t know, but it happens. He also seems to care more about adjusting his game to suit the girl than making the girl adjust to his game, which I think ends up hurting his pick-up in the long run because it is not really congruent with who he is and how he presents himself long term. In fact, if you hang out with Mystery long enough, you get the sense that everything he talks to you about is a pattern, and he always ends up bringing the conversation back to his favorite topic, which is, of course, himself. And that is the reason I put him at #6.
7. Tyler Durden: Tyler is one of the big “up and comers” in the community. His posts made him a legend on ASF, and then once he teamed up with Papa and started doing workshops, his stock only rose. For a while, there was speculation as to whether or not TD was all talk, but he proved to everybody that he was legit in the Vegas Mystery Method workshop where he not only got laid, but got Style and Mystery laid as well. I have seen Tyler at work in the field, and he is impressive. He is a genuinely funny and engaging guy with lots of interesting stuff to talk about. His posts are some of the most interesting to read in the community as well, and he backs up his teachings with lots of field experience. However, like Mystery, I get the sense that TD has problems in his long game. When he picks chicks up, he does so from the frame where he makes the girls feel like “bad girls” or “sluts.” This works good for party girls and good girls alike, but on day two when the frame wears off, the girls associate that feeling with him and then flake, because feeling bad and slutty might be exciting for a night, but long term it is not a good feeling. TD also comes off as very gay. This is not a bad thing per say, but he has adopted the “hot chick” frame so congruently, that I think when girls sleep with him, its almost incongruent with who they thought he was. I could, of course, be totally wrong in this assessment since I haven’t hung out and sarged with Tyler as much as I’d like, but I’m going off of what I have noticed.
8. Primoman: Primoman is a dude that is no longer an active member of the community, but he is still a pick-up artist in every sense of the word. Primoman is known as the “King of the Ugs.” He is a dude who I’ve yet to see without a girl on his arm. Allbeit, that girl is usually ugly, or fat, or a combination of the two, but nonetheless, it is a girl. Primoman is not so much about quality as he is about QUANTITY. He probably lays more girls than any other guy in the community, but he is also not too picky with his prospects. Regardless, he gets laid a LOT! And that’s what it all comes down to in the end. His game is very Juggler in nature. In fact, he is quite AFC in his approach, but he is just so congruent with who he is and gently persistent in his sarge, that he eventually wins the girl over. Lately he’s been working his way up the “looks” scale as far as his girls go, so he may be giving Style a run for his money some day.
9. Sickboy: Sickboy is a protogee of Tyler and Papa. He’s a New Yorker and is best known for his appearance in the movie Zoolander as one of the male models in the movie. Yes, that’s right, the guy looks like a male model. But despite this, he is incredibly down to earth and has absolutely no ego about himself. He’s a very easy guy to talk to and a good friend. His game is also quite solid, though I do think it’s helped greatly by his looks. I think his frames aren’t as strong as they could be, but he definitely has the subtleties of PUA down pat. He recently spoke to the NYC lair and that’s a great read if you can find the transcripts somewhere. He’s a guy to look out for.
10. Harmless: Harmless is not what you would expect from a PUA. He’s pretty prolific on ASF, and seems to know his shit. The thing is, the guy comes off very much as his name describes him — Harmless. He’s a pretty average looking guy who seems very unassuming at first. But then you see the guy in action, and he’s very good. I think he comes across much like Mystery and TD, where he raises his value in the girl’s eyes by being entertaining and engaging. I know I enjoy talking to the guy, if that’s any indication. I haven’t seen enough of his game in action to critique it any further, but I do know he’s going to start teaching workshops soon, so his game’s gotta be pretty high. Regardless, he’s one to keep an eye on.
HONORABLE MENTIONS
There are a number of other people out there who probably deserve to be on this list, but like I said before, I have not had a chance to really see them in action. But here are a few who I think deserve a mention.
Bad Boy — Apparently this guy is amazing. I know TD gets a lot of his AMOG tactics from Bad Boy. He’s a croatian pick-up artist who was injured in the Bosnian war, which makes his game so much more incredible considering he was almost killed and still suffers the effects from that somewhat. Apparently the guy is very fearless and straight-forward agressive with women. In fact, some would descibe his game as all cocky and no funny, which is probably why its so effective. Not only that, but he is supposed to be incredibly congruent. I know he’s currently fucking Miss Croatia and using her as a pawn to pull other women for threesomes if that tells you anything about his game.
Toecutter – I don’t know the guy personally and all I have to go off of are his posts on ASF and Mystery’s Lounge, but this guy seems to have it going on. I know TD studdied his archive like the dead sea scrolls, and his posts convey a very congruent attitude. I’m interested in seeing him in action, and if I’m ever in Canada I’ll see if I can’t hook up with him.
MTLPUA — Don’t know much about him, but I hear he’s really good.
David X — I know Clifford had good things to say about him.
Chet – The Chetinator! I got to see him speak in Chicago. Supposedly he’s god-like with women, but I have yet to see him in action and can’t say for sure.
Adam – The “natural.” Look to see great things from this guy in the future!
Masterclass — The guy is currently juggling 4 girls right now. He’s also an incredibly sneaky speed seducer who is moving more into the cocky/funny stuff and having great success. Right now, I think his game could be up there with the best there is if he got past his fear of approaching.
Rick H. — The legend. I have not hung out with the guy yet, but I’m sure when I do, it’ll be veeeeeeery interesting. =)
Ross Jeffries — I’ve hung out with Ross on a few occasions now and have only sarged with him once. From what I saw, I liked, but have not done enough field work with him to accurately rate the guy. I know Papa speaks highly of him, and he’s been out in the field with him more than I have.
Papa – I go out with Papa all the time, so I’m a bit biased when it comes to his skill level. He teaches at all of TD and Mystery’s workshops as well, and his field reports are always worth a read. He’s also single-handedly bringing this community together, so he has to be respected for that at the very least. The reason I didn’t put him in the top 10 was because much of his material is from Style and Tyler. I think in order to be in the top 10, a PUA needs to be developing his own style. One thing I will say about Papa is that he is incredibly good with creating strong frames.
Alphamale – This guy is incredibly impressive. Most of his game is based on using pivots to pull girls for him. I haven’t hung out with the guy enough to get an idea of how good he is, but from what I have seen, his game is awesome.
Well, there ya go, my Top 10. Hopefully one day I’ll make my list, but I doubt it! I’m much too hard on myself, lol.
That’s why they call me…
Thundercat