Getting Same Night Lays & One Night Stands…
August 18, 2010 by Thundercat
Filed under Tips & Tricks
IAmMaximus, over at the mASF boards, has a really good post up about how he goes about getting women to have sex with him the same night he meets them.
IAmMaximus writes:
After having tons of problems scoring club pulls over the first several years I was at this, I’ve actually managed to hook up with 5 over about the past 7 weeks (including 2 in one night). While I’m certainly no expert on them, here’s what I’ve learned that helps me score them:1. Go out looking as good as you possibly can.
2. Be sociable/talk and flirt with everyone/play the numbers.
3. Be persistent, even if you’re blown out once or twice.
4. Have fun yourself and show her a good time
5. Flirt and then escalate nonverbally (EC, get close, caress hands–credit: 60)
6. Keep pulling her to go home with you. Don’t necessarily verbalize that you want to take her home for sex. Just focus on taking her home and tie it into whatever her state is. She wants to get something to eat? You’ll take her! She just wants to get out of there… no problem! Then, once you’ve got her away, the sex will “just happen.” Don’t be afraid to persist and keep asking.
7. When you’re taking her home, keep up the kino the whole way. Keep caressing hands. Put your hand on her thigh and finger her if she’s in your car or sitting next to you on the subway, etc.
8. Get her home and just keep kissing and making out (pay attention to kissing her neck!) while working on getting a finger into her pussy. If she’ll let you put a finger there, more will follow.
That’s it. Nothing complex about it. I don’t worry about DHV, negging, canned material, special openers, etc. I just open, have fun with her, escalate, and pull and pull until I take her home.
Now, I’m NOT a particularly attractive man, so don’t go bullshitting that this only works for me because I must be good looking. Truth be told, I’m fat, sort of hairy, and I have impressive manboobs. No girl with working eyes would ever drool over seeing me shirtless, yet several have been gladly fucking me in recent weeks. Physically, I’m maybe a 6. Dressed in my “field clothes,” I might become a 7.5 or an 8. I’ve been fucking girls who are 7s-8.5s by my scale. If I can do it, you can do it!
Oh… and one more thing… the most crucial…
IF YOU WANT A QUICK LAY, DO NOT SET OFF THE DAMNED BOYFRIEND SCREENING PROCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wish I’d known this years ago. I used to spend so much time trying to show a girl what a great, awesome, high value, caring guy I was. All that does is get her screening you as a potential boyfriend. THIS DRAMATICALLY COMPLICATES THE HOOKUP PROCESS AND WILL PROBABLY KEEP YOU FROM GETTING LAID!
Girls are the same as men in that they enjoy sex for sex’s sake. Maybe she just broke up with a longtime bf and wants to make sure she’s still attractive to other guys. Maybe she’s just horny and wants a quick fuck to soothe her aching vagina. Whatever.
I’ve noticed that the women I’ve been pulling for SNLs could give a fuck about me, my life, or my dreams for the future. They… just… don’t… care. If she’s going to fuck a guy within a couple hours of meeting him, she doesn’t want to worry about possible emotional entanglements.
Bringing those things into the situation just suggests that you’re going to be hounding her for a commitment. That’s going to cause her to view you in a completely different light. Does she like your personality enough to date you? Do you have enough common interests to make it work? What about your career, or your family, or your philosophies on life, etc.? What if she just plain does not want a boyfriend and is going through a whorish phase?
For a quick SNL, this is much simpler: Is she horny? Are you presenting yourself as a walking sex toy for the evening? OK, then! That’s all she needs to know.
If she does start asking the questions about your life, just answer truthfully and move on. Instead of dwelling on those mundane things, focus on having fun in the moment and on setting up opportunities to kino and either get rejected (and save yourself time) or hook up and get laid.
I want to make it clear that I’m not saying to be rude or run some cutesy pattern to disqualify yourself as bf material if she starts asking these things–IME, that’s suicide.
I’m just saying to be pleasant, be sincere, enjoy yourself, express your interest in her sexually, and create nonverbal opportunities to escalate that don’t feel forced. Hold the seductive EC. Get close and give yourself opportunities for kino. Caress her hand (60 is a GENIUS for pointing these simple tactics out).
There’s a time and place for relationships and boyfriend screening, of course. Personally, I value a good relationship far above any quick bar fling. But sometimes you just wanna get laid with some hot little girl at the club. This has been working for me to achieve that. I think it can help other guys, too.
Another thing to remember: you’re much, much, much more likely to be able to turn a SNL into a relationship after you’ve fucked a girl than to pass the annoying boyfriend screening process and get a lay of any kind, even after 2-3 days. The criteria for a no-strings fuck are just that much lower.
Bravo to fat-hairy-manboob PUAs who are taggin-n-baggin dem ladies! A lot of IAmMaximus’s stuff isn’t complicated, its mostly an attitude based natural game style with a healthy dose of logistical mastery and physical escalation. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is if you’re getting what you want, right? Well, it seems like IAmMaximus is getting plenty, so why can’t you?
Why do you get girls more easily when you’re not trying?
August 11, 2010 by Thundercat
Filed under Articles
Zan has an excellent article on his Natural Game forum about why guys get girls easier when they aren’t really trying.
Fellow Pirates,
Have you ever noticed how when you’re not trying to pick up girls, they seem to be more interested in you? And when you deliberately try, it’s like they scatter away. There’s been many ways to explain this, (inner game issues, outcome attachment, a sixth sense that girls have, etc) I have been thinking about this for a few days, letting it brew since I got the original idea. I think there’s a scientific basis for it. Let me try and set this up for you so it makes sense.
I just finished reading a book by Daniel Pink called Drive, which is essentially a book on motivation. I don’t intend to summarize the whole book in one paragraph but I will give you a brief introduction. Pink introduces the idea of Motivation 2.0 which is the rewards/punishment model of behavioral psychology (he calls it carrots and sticks) and he makes the case that it is an outdated model that no longer works in our current business climate.
He then talks about a new kind of motivation, dubbed 3.0, which centers on the research of Edward Deci and Self-Determination Theory (SDT) Essentially this new model of motivation is based on 3 core needs all humans have in order to enjoy what they do. They are: Autonomy (to have the freedom to set your own schedule and choose your own projects), Mastery (to get better at something) and Purpose (to have your work mean something)
What researchers have found through experiments is that Motivation 2.0 works really well for tasks that are algorithmic in nature. So if a job is comprised of a series of steps that are clearly laid out, then carrots and sticks work really well, that is the larger the reward, the better the performance. However, this model falls really short when tasks are creative in nature, require conceptual thinking and are not clearly laid out. In fact it falls really flat. Time and time again, researchers found that the large reward cripples people’s ability to do even simpler tasks like solving a puzzle.
In fact there are several well-documented averse effects that rewards/punishments introduce when dealing with creative tasks: (I’m only listing the ones that are relevant to the discussion here as we’ll see in a bit)
1) First rewards/punishments really crush creativity and ingenuity.
2) Second, they can extinguish intrinsic motivation, so the activity becomes more work and less fun.
3) It narrows down thinking and encourages cheating, shortcuts and unethical behavior (like a salesperson lying to you so he can make his quota)
4) It fosters short-term thinkingSo how is this relevant to our discussion?
When we look at the idea of attracting women, do you think that it’s an algorithmic (i.e. step by step) type of task or a more creative type of task? Regardless of what PUA’s tell you, I would argue that it’s more of a creative task requiring ingenuity, wit, creativity, etc. There is no system that is clearly laid out, step by step that will guarantee results.
Now, assuming this, when you go out with the sole purpose of approaching women or picking up women, what type of motivation do you have in mind? Again, I would argue that you’re operating more out of a reward/punishment mindset where the reward is sex (or maybe a relationship) and the punishment is loneliness.
Given this, it’s no wonder that your tongue gets tied and you’re stuck trying to think of what to say next. Your brain has a clear destination in sight and is asking for the algorithm (the formula) of how to get there!! All your creativity is gone and if you try to do this all the time, as many PUA’s say you should practice relentlessly, then it slowly starts to feel like work and it’s no longer fun. And the most dangerous part is that you’re now thinking short-term and you tend to disregard longer term consequences. You want to get laid and you’ll do it at any cost, thus behavior such as trying to get the girl drunk or trying to force her (unethical behavior) definitely comes to mind!! If you’re a good guy, you’ll just leave frustrated.
This is also known as being attached to the outcome, but given the rewards/punishment model and 30+ years of scientific research to back it up, it’s a lot simpler to understand if seen in this light.
On the other hand, when you’re out having fun and not even thinking about pick-up, you’re being yourself, your entire creative mind is available to you so you’re naturally witty, charming and creative, and if the reward doesn’t even enter your mind (or you somehow DON’T think of sex as a reward) then you’re free to act as you please and things end up in intimacy it’s no big deal.
It’s the equivalent of the painter who’s painting for fun rather than for a commissioned piece. He doesn’t know where the painting is going to end up, he has no fixed end in sight and is simply enjoying the process but is tweaking as he goes. Research in fact found the pieces produced through this process were seen as much better work (and thus of higher value) by art appraisers than pieces that were paid for in advance.
In conclusion, we’re faced with the question of “How do you implement this in a way that reverses the negative effects of reward/punishment thinking and act more naturally?”
I only have two ideas, but am leaving this open for discussion:
1) Don’t focus on sex or relationship as a reward and loneliness as punishment. Go out there with the focus on having fun and enjoying yourself, not to run game.
2) Change the meaning of sex/relationship from a reward you get to something that happens. It’s not the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Sure it’s hard to ignore horniness when you see lots of scantily clad young women throwing their sexuality around like a status symbol. When sex is no longer a reward or loneliness no longer a punishment you’re finally free.
This is just a hypothesis of mine and clearly not a scientific theory so take it with a grain of salt. It’s just a different way of thinking that maybe will help you answer the question of what to do or understand what people mean by “just be yourself” or “do whatever you feel like doing”
As always, excellent advice from Zan. :-)
“The Forbidden Truth” by Brad P.
August 22, 2008 by BradP
Filed under Articles, Brad P, Guest Authors
The intention of this report is to give a snapshot of the current state of dating science, and to make a few simple recommendations on how to improve the experiences of those who wish to become proficient in dating and seduction.
I expect some of this may be controversial at first, but I hope some of these recommendations will become standard practice in the future. I believe I have a unique vantage point on the matter, and that this report will help many men have more success with women. Read more
Is Picking Up Chicks Against The Law In The UK?
August 18, 2008 by Thundercat
Filed under News
I found this interesting little story about a couple would-be pick up artists getting arrested by the police for approaching chicks over on the London Seduction Society message boards…
3 Puas arrested in Oxford St. saturday afternoon
Thats right….
I was just on my way to my spot where I like to do some game when I spot 3 dudes with the PUA uniform. I spotted them and went to lean against a wall to see them in action from a distance while I was making sure that they were in fact PUAs.I see one of them do a 3 set aproach and eject in 3 seconds, so I had some doubts.
Then, another one of them crosses the street to speak to this blonde lone wolf and after him goes a cop.In matter of seconds, the cop arrests the guy that now just looks completely shock and disbelief and I think that he actually handcufs the guy. A second PUA crosses the street to see whats going on and gets arrested as well… So the third PUA just goes in and the party begins:
3 random dudes are arrested and searched in a corner of Oxford St. by one uniformed cop and 2 other civilian-dressed. I wanted to help, but I was risking exactly the same as the other 2 dudes and besides, I dont even know them, so I better mind my own business.
So I move on to my spot, open a lone wolf…. takes me 30 minutes to get her number and I walk back Oxf. St. again… AND THEY’RE STILL THERE!!!
Seriously… if you’re reading this and you’re the dudes, please just tell us what the hell just happened… Is it because you were opening too many sets on cctv?
WTF…?
And here’s the response from one of the guys who got arrested… Read more
The Pick Up Artist On VH1 – A Review
August 7, 2007 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
So hopefully everyone caught the premier of VH1′s new series, "The Pickup Artist," starring our beloved Mystery, along with his wingmen Matador and J-Dog.
Before the show came on, I was really excited. I was hoping this was going to be Mystery’s big break. After all, the potential for this type of show is massive, and something like it has been talked about and fantasized within the community for years.
Unfortunately, I don’t think this will be the show everyone hoped it would be.
Read on…
FastSeduction.com’s The Art Of The Pick Up – Review
April 9, 2007 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
Art Of The Pickup is the first offering from those crazy kooks over at fastseduction.com. It’s a 2 DVD video set with over six hours worth of information culled from fastseduction.com’s vast repository of pick-up knowledge, all compiled into an easy to reference format.
The thing that makes the Art Of The Pickup stand out from other similar DVD sets is that it’s designed more like an interactive course on how to meet women than a simple recorded lecture, like you might get with other DVD courses.
This format works very well in an instructional sense, because it breaks down the different phases of pickup in an easy to follow way, and allows for quick reference of the different tactics available.
FastSeduction.com’s The Art Of The Pick Up – Review
April 9, 2007 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
Art Of The Pickup is the first offering from those crazy kooks over at fastseduction.com. It’s a 2 DVD video set with over six hours worth of information culled from fastseduction.com’s vast repository of pick-up knowledge, all compiled into an easy to reference format.
The thing that makes the Art Of The Pickup stand out from other similar DVD sets is that it’s designed more like an interactive course on how to meet women than a simple recorded lecture, like you might get with other DVD courses.
This format works very well in an instructional sense, because it breaks down the different phases of pickup in an easy to follow way, and allows for quick reference of the different tactics available.
FastSeduction.com’s The Art Of The Pick Up – Review
April 9, 2007 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
Art Of The Pickup is the first offering from those crazy kooks over at fastseduction.com. It’s a 2 DVD video set with over six hours worth of information culled from fastseduction.com’s vast repository of pick-up knowledge, all compiled into an easy to reference format.
The thing that makes the Art Of The Pickup stand out from other similar DVD sets is that it’s designed more like an interactive course on how to meet women than a simple recorded lecture, like you might get with other DVD courses.
This format works very well in an instructional sense, because it breaks down the different phases of pickup in an easy to follow way, and allows for quick reference of the different tactics available.
Review: Pick Up 101′s Physical Confidence DVD
April 9, 2007 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
You know, we all have our own definitions of "confidence."
That is why when someone says "You just need to be confident to get a woman," most guys will groan in dismay.
Why?
Because no one really knows what that means!
What one person things is "being confident" may not be another person’s definition of confidence.
And of those definitions – they may all be WRONG!
Let me share with you my definition of confidence…
Confidence is secure self knowledge. It is knowing who you are – your strengths and your weaknesses – and being HAPPY about it!
Confidence truly stems from your own personal belief systems. Bad beliefs will lead you to not like yoruself, and this will lead you to being unconfident.
However, good belief systems allow you to love who you are and accept your faults – and this leads you to being SUPREMELY confident.
So the big question is: How do you go from hating yourself to loving yourself?
Review: Pick Up 101′s Physical Confidence DVD
April 9, 2007 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
You know, we all have our own definitions of "confidence."
That is why when someone says "You just need to be confident to get a woman," most guys will groan in dismay.
Why?
Because no one really knows what that means!
What one person things is "being confident" may not be another person’s definition of confidence.
And of those definitions – they may all be WRONG!
Let me share with you my definition of confidence…
Confidence is secure self knowledge. It is knowing who you are – your strengths and your weaknesses – and being HAPPY about it!
Confidence truly stems from your own personal belief systems. Bad beliefs will lead you to not like yoruself, and this will lead you to being unconfident.
However, good belief systems allow you to love who you are and accept your faults – and this leads you to being SUPREMELY confident.
So the big question is: How do you go from hating yourself to loving yourself?
Review: Pick Up 101′s Physical Confidence DVD
April 9, 2007 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
You know, we all have our own definitions of "confidence."
That is why when someone says "You just need to be confident to get a woman," most guys will groan in dismay.
Why?
Because no one really knows what that means!
What one person things is "being confident" may not be another person’s definition of confidence.
And of those definitions – they may all be WRONG!
Let me share with you my definition of confidence…
Confidence is secure self knowledge. It is knowing who you are – your strengths and your weaknesses – and being HAPPY about it!
Confidence truly stems from your own personal belief systems. Bad beliefs will lead you to not like yoruself, and this will lead you to being unconfident.
However, good belief systems allow you to love who you are and accept your faults – and this leads you to being SUPREMELY confident.
So the big question is: How do you go from hating yourself to loving yourself?
Cocky/Funny and Good Looking Guys?
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/19/03
There was an excellent post on the PLAY list asking a question which is a very good one. Basically, the guy who posted said that he’s a good looking guy, but that he seems to hurt his pick-ups with being too cocky and not funny enough. He then goes on to ask the question: What is the proper way to use cocky/funny?
For those of you who might not know, cocky/funny is the primary theory behind David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating material. His theory is that by projecting a cocky attitude while being funny, you can up your success with attracting women. I know Mystery likes to say he disagrees with this in a slight way, because he thinks it should be more cocky/playful than cocky/funny. However, I tend to disagree with both. I believe that ALL COCKY can be much more powerful.
Why is that? Well, to me, being cocky does so many things initially that will help you in your seduction. The first thing is that cockiness is a way of prizing yourself. You put other people in a position where they are inferior to you when you are being cocky, which naturally leads to them qualifying themselves. Cockiness also sets a powerful frame, which is always the most important thing in a sarge. When you control the frame, its your reality that the girl is sucked into, and she becomes beholdant to it. Thirdly, you are also putting yourself in a power position where you can judge others. I think that judging others is probably the most powerful thing you can do, because it makes them qualify themselves and puts you in power.
But if what this guy is saying is true, he’s already being all cocky and its not working for him. Supposedly, this guy looks like a male model, so he can’t understand what’s wrong. The thing about looks is — I have seen good looking guys who are bad with women because they are socially inept. So looks may be important, but usually not as much as most people think.
The trick with being cocky is to not do it in a malicious way. If you come off TOO STRONG with being cocky, you are going to drive people away from you. Cockiness is meant to be a way of challenging people and lure them into qualifying themselves to you. It comes down to ABJ — Always Be Judging. If you’re self-assured, smart, and judgmental, you can very sneakily get people to fall into your qualification trap (after all, attraction is nothing but an intense need for qualification). However, if you make it so that these people can NEVER get the validation they seek, they will dismiss you as an ass hole and move on. That’s where the “funny” or “playful” part comes in, but you don’t necessarily need to do either to qualify the other person. There are different ways to do that, but both work.
So looks have nothing to do with whether or not cocky/funny works. Rather, its the way in which you present the frame that determines whether it works. You have to be inviting and detached, not closed off and sarcastic. For instance, if you were to say to a girl:
“I don’t like you. You’re annoying. Go away.”
What would happen? Well, it depends on how you say it. If you say it seriously and forcefully, it will come across like you REALLY don’t like her, you REALLY think she’s annoying, and you REALLY want her to go away. By the same token, if you tell her the exact same line, but do so with a smirk and a subtle wink in a way where she can’t tell if you’re being serious or not, she’s not going to know if you mean what you say or are playing with her. So she’ll be more likely to stick around and try to find out, and then BOOM! You got her.
If you watch a natural or a regular ass-hole work, you’ll often see this. They don’t really care if they get the girl or not, so they can be cocky, but are congruent with the way they present themselves and usually succeed in sucking people into their frame.
So, long answer short: Cocky/Funny will always work, no matter how you look. You just need to do it right.
If the guy who posted that reads this, you gotta work on your presentation and delivery. That’s the bare bones of the matter and where I think your problem may lie.
If you happen to be a good looking guy, the best PUA to study in my opinion would be Sickboy. He actually IS a male model, but his game is very effective because he has no ego about himself. But he does have an understanding of attraction and qualification. You might want to try searching for him on mASF or hunt down his Interview Transcript in the PLAY archives. Its definitely worth a read.
Sarge on,
Thundercat
Swingcat’s Open Loop Theory
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis, Articles
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03
**Image removed
YEEEEEEAH! Damn, I’m buzzed. Just heard one of my favorite shows — Carnivale — got renewed by HBO for a second season. I swear, if I only had HBO on my TV and no other channel, I’d be happy. Their original programming is the best on TV! Carnivale, coupled with The Wire and the Sopranos are a few of the shows I set everything aside for to watch. I am really jazzed! You can find the announcement at the Hollywood Reporter by following this link:
Now, someone had to go on the SS list and start blasting my favorite fall season show by saying its too frustrating to watch. In fact, he said that it was an example of going too far with “open loops.” Now, what they’re doing discussing Swinggcat terminology on the SS board is beyond me, especially considering that Ross is a stickler for not talking about other people’s products (but since Swinggcat used to be his top student, I guess he’s making exceptions). Anyway, this discussion brought up an interesting point about open loops.
For those of you who don’t know what an Open Loop is, its a verbal form of creating insecurity, anticipation, and a need to qualify through the use of creating an open ended story. Yes, that’s a round-a-bout explanation, but its the best I can do from memory. Swinggcat has a whole chapter in his book about open loops that explains it better than I ever could. But an example of an open loop would be something like:
PUA: “You know, this place reminds me of when I was in a german sex show with my girlfriend.”
HB: “You were in a german sex show? What happened?”
PUA: “Well I was in Germany because I love McDonalds ice cream, and I made it a personal goal to try McDonalds ice cream in every country in the world. Don’t you just love ice cream?”
So what’s happening there? You set up the fact that you were doing something exotic and forbidden, but you fail to pay it off and start talking about something silly and stupid. But the whole time you’re doing that, the other person will be thinking “Yes, but what about the sex show!!!???” and if they ask you, you start talking about something else, never quite giving them what they want. That’s an open loop. Its an interesting hook that someone wants closure on, and you’re the only one who can give it to them, but you don’t. You make them work for it. Its a very sneaky, subtle, eeeeevil way to get people to qualify themselves to you. They’ll be saying shit like “Please tell me! Pleeeeeaaaaase!” And you can grin and say “I’m not sure you’ve earned it yet.” Hopefully you’re smart enough to know what that implies.
So anyway, on the SS list, there was a lot of talk about how open loops are ineffective because they are so frustrating. What many fail to understand is that open loops are MEANT to be frustrating, and that is why they feel that way. Open loops create insecurity and anticipation, two very important factors in attraction. If you get pissed off when someone uses open loops on you, it means its working.
But there is an argument that people who intuitively use open loops end up creating an atmosphere around them that ultimately drives people away instead of attracting them, and therefor open loops should not be used. I think the important word here is “intuitive.” People who do this stuff intuitively are destined to mess it up because they do not have a conscious awareness of how this shit works.
Open loops are a way of creating drama. They are meant to rope other people into your reality by giving them just enough to get interested, and then taking it away so they actively pursue you.
When you have a conscious awareness of how open loops work, you can use them to attract people to you. When you do not, you can over use them and cause people to become frustrated and angry because they realize the hopelessness in their pursuit. Women tend to overuse this tactic because they are emotional creatures and easily distracted by stimuli (this is a bit of an over-generalization here, but I’ve found it is fairly accurate for attractive women). It also goes towards creating drama and turmoil in their personal lives, something many women crave and create.
I think the use of open loops is a valuable tool in seduction. I’ve seen some extremely talented Pick-Up Artists us it to great effect. But I tend to agree that if overused, any of these skills become ineffective and even detrimental to your pick-up. That’s part of the trick to being good at this, is knowing WHEN and HOW to use these tactics.
For more information on open loops, you can either try and catch reruns of Carnivale, or buy Swinggcat’s book at Real World Seduction.
Ho!
Thundercat