Initial Fear of the Approach — Revisited

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**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/24/03

Okay, so I got a reply from a guy about my little rant of fear of approaching, who just so happens to ALSO be the guy who originally brought it up on the D.C. Seduction e-mail list.  His reply is as follows:

Good post.

I’m wondering to what degree things like NLP could help with this. Something were you could ‘create’ these experiences of approaching HB in your mind several times a day for weeks before you start to do so in the real world. Has anyone done anything like this?

I’m also planning on using the 21 day method as found here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Seduction_The_Art_Of/message/419

Basically it just says to start small taking baby steps by just starting off by asking HB for directions, the time, etc. Just to get used to some sort of approach. Then expand to asking more complicated things, using eye contact, smiling, etc but keeping unrelated to a pickup. This sounds like a nice step to help get over the monster first hurdle of the cold approach.

I remember reading somewhere one trick is to not focus on yourself. Direct your focus on the HB. I guess kind of like the mind over matter stuff where people walk over coals. Focus is the trick. This may be something to keep in mind when I start. Keep the innermind completely silent.

So I’ve decided to repost my reply to him here on my blog.  Here it is:

> I’m wondering to what degree things like NLP could
> help with this. Something
> were you could ‘create’ these experiences of
> approaching HB in your mind
> several times a day for weeks before you start to do
> so in the real world.
> Has anyone done anything like this?

Its horseshit.

NLP will not help you.  You can’t use hypnosis as a crutch to help get you to “the point” where you start approaching girls.  It just won’t happen.  I know because I used to do that sort of stuff when I was an SS zombie and all it lead to was more dates with my hand, if you get my drift.

>
> I’m also planning on using the 21 day method as
> found here:
>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Seduction_The_Art_Of/message/419

> Basically it just says to start small taking baby
> steps by just starting off
> by asking HB for directions, the time, etc. Just to
> get used to some sort of
> approach. Then expand to asking more complicated
> things, using eye contact,
> smiling, etc but keeping unrelated to a pickup. This
> sounds like a nice step
> to help get over the monster first hurdle of the
> cold approach.

Again, horseshit.

You will not get good at this taking baby steps.  Its like swimming in cold water, you just have to jump in head first.  That’s why I recommend taking a workshop or meeting up with other guys, because you will have a safety net with you while you start this off.  But the fact of the matter remains, all the NLP or Baby Steps in the world will just lead to more mental masturbation on your part.

You MUST face your fear and make a fool of yourself. Fuck up.  Make mistakes.  But most importantly, GET OUT IN THE FIELD.  The field is king.  Respect the field.  It will teach you all you need to know.  Period.

>
> I remember reading somewhere one trick is to not
> focus on yourself. Direct
> your focus on the HB. I guess kind of like the mind
> over matter stuff where
> people walk over coals. Focus is the trick. This may
> be something to keep in
> mind when I start. Keep the innermind completely
> silent.

I think the trick is to keep the outcome unattached in your mind.  When you’re first starting off, if your goal is simply “to get an answer from the girl and then walk away,” you know what the outcome is going to be, so you are more in control of the situation.  Its the uncertainty of outcome that fucks a lot of guys up.

The best way to disassociate yourself from the outcome is to decide how far its going to go beforehand and pursue that end.  Also, if you are intimidated by beautiful girls, learn to approach ugly girls and guys and practice striking up conversations with them.  I’ve been in many situations where I’ve had warpigs chasing me just because I bothered talking to them.  Its a nice ego boost (and puts you in the “hot chick” frame) and helps you as you work your way up the proverbial food chain.

>
> Any other tips, tricks, words of wisdom?

How’s this:  Stop thinking about doing it and do it.

Thundercat

Initial Fear of the Approach

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/22/03

Someone on the DC list asked a pretty good question about approaching and fear of the approach. They talked about how hard it was to approach women initially in SS. I think this is a pretty valid point, because the first stage in anyone’s development as a seducer or pick-up artists is to learn how to approach girls.

Speaking as someone who comes from an SS background, I can feel for guys who are going through this. IMO, SS is one of the WORST systems for helping guys learn to cold approach. When I was just doing strict SS, I could not cold-approach to save my life. In fact, some of the best Speed Seducers I know cannot cold approach. They get most of their lays through social circles or the internet. That said, cold approaching is just very hard in general.

The best way to get over this, in my opinion, is to attend an in-field workshop. I know there was one in DC recently taught by Tyler Durden. Nothing helps more than having live, in-field instruction and demonstration by experienced people who can help you troubleshoot and guide you through the process. The only people doing this currently that I know of is Tyler Durden, Mystery, Badboy, and Harmless, who will be starting his workshops up in the coming months. That said, workshops are very “shit or get off the pot” in their nature. They will kick-start you into approaching, but they are NOT very conducive to mental masturbators and armchair seducers, so be sure you are prepared for it.

Short of that, hooking up with other guys who do this stuff is the best way to go. I know a lot of guys in the DC area are getting together on a regular basis to wing each other, which is a great way to learn. I started up my own lair in LA to help me out. Sometimes, just having others to talk to about this shit is good to help increase your skills.

The hardest part about approaching is just overcoming that fear of rejection. We all become so conditioned to avoiding emotional pain, that we get that knot in our stomachs every time we are about to talk to a girl we find attractive. The best guys I’ve seen at this have no fear of approaching because they are able to detach themselves from the outcome. Whenever you see a beautiful girl you wanna bang, you give her a lot of sexual power over you, which you then have to go about trying to regain in order to effectively sarge her.

What I’m doing in my game right now is getting to the point where I do not feel the need to give the girl that power. Where my inner game has hit such a level that I do not have to get validation from a girl. Its a tough thing to do, and something I’m struggling with. But all I have to do is look at someone like Zan, who is completely free of all that bullshit, to the point where he naturally attracts people to him. Its a very powerful and congruent way to live your life.

I’ll probably talk about this more later. Right now I gotta run. Gonna hang out with my brother and his hippy friends.

Thundercat

The SS List — Beating a Dead Horse

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/17/03

For years, the Speed-Seduction list has been in operation. For a while, it was awesome. There was a real influx of talented seducers there coming up with “nuclear” stuff to use on chicks. Things like “The Warmth Builder,” “Riker’s 3 Rules,” and the amazing “takeaway” abounded. But then the star student turned out to be a con man and one of Ross’s fallen angels went off and started up the competition. Not only that, but fastseduction.com and mASF opened things up for more than just Ross’s products. Since that time, the SS list has endured, but it is a shadow of what it used to be.

Like Freddy screaming at Jason, whenever I open my e-mail to find posts from the SS list in there, I can’t help but yell at the screen “WHY WON’T YOU DIE???!!!!” And then proceed to delete 99.9% of the posts, occasionally reading one that catches my eye until I realize why it is that I bother to delete most of these posts, and then proceed to kill that one as well.

The thing is, even though the SS list isn’t what it used to be, SS isn’t what it used to be either. Gone are the days where you could memorize 40 patterns and steamroll a girl into a subnamuble trance and start fondling her right away. The new SS has degenerated into tailoring shit to the girl you are seducing, which cuts your success rate down to 30% at the least. Because of this, most of the guys who have progressed in their game have opted to leave SS behind for greener pastures. What does this mean?

Simple. There are no “good” seducers on the SS list anymore. It truly is the blind leading the blind, with newbies who haven’t even finished listening to the BHSC giving advice to other newbies, therefore insuring nobody really knows what they are doing. The fact that some of the best threads on there are discussing shit that was brought up in Swinggcat’s book doesn’t help matters.

What I’m wondering is — will it get any better? Will Ross lock himself away in a closet for 6 months and re-emerge with a new form a Speed Seduction — one that actually WORKS and is a viable alternative to DYD, MM, and any of the other 6 billion forms of PUA that have sprung up since the good ol’ days? Will SMART people actually join the SS list and start posting good shit again? Or should this list be killed or die quietly? Honestly, I haven’t seen ANYTHING good come from that list since the days Bishop was posting, and he made up all his shit. Kind of says something doesn’t it?

I think my biggest problem with the SS list comes from the fact that there are actually guys out there who are genuinely in need of help and wanting to learn, and they look at all the crap that’s passing for advice on this list because they don’t know any better, and it only ends up making their situation worse because they follow the poor advice that is given. In fact, most recently, the only person on there I’ve seen give somewhat good advice is Tom Vizzini (when he’s not hocking 3D Mind or any of that other crap, that is).

I hope Ross wakes up to the fact that his list is slowly degenerating into what Apple became in the 80s and early 90s, which is a steaming pile of crap, a shell of what it once was. I hope he starts putting some quality control on his list and his products, and starts dealing with the REALITY of seduction instead of the idealized NLP version of it. I hope he actually steps up to the plate and starts teaching guys what they need to know instead of fairy tales. But then again, that may be too much work.

In the meantime, I’ll just keep deleting my SS posts.

Thundercat