The Top 10 Pick Up Artist Of 2009!
January 1, 2010 by Thundercat
Filed under Featured, Top 10 Lists
Welcome one and all to this year’s edition of my Top 10 PUA list. My Top 10 list is different from most people’s, for a few reasons. The first of which is I try and personally meet and interact with as many PUAs as I can to get a sense if they’re the real deal or not. Most people out there just rank their friends or go based off of what the message boards say, but I try and base my rankings on my personal experience – not only with the PUAs themselves, but with the techniques of picking up women in general.
But more than that, I base my rankings on more than just sheer skill at picking up women. The criteria for the rankings are simple:
1. In-Field Performance. This is basically the skills the PUA displays in the field with women. Most Top 10s deal with this factor exclusively, but I’ve found that just looking at a guy’s in-field performance can be misleading, since people have off-nights or can get lucky. That said, their ability to use the techniques in field repeatedly and consistently to get results is a big, big factor in the ranking process.
2. Innovations. This is what new outlook or techniques the PUA brings to the table. It’s easy for any new guy to get good using Mystery Method or any other school of seduction, but then again, that stuff is designed to work! So being innovative and bringing a new twist, spin, philosophy, technique, or whatever to the mix is also a big deal, because that means the PUA actually has something to contribute to his students and the community as a whole that no one else does.
3. Teaching Ability. This is how effectively the PUA can teach what he does to other people, and have them get similar results. This is another important factor, because it weeds out the people who are just the lucky naturals, and finds the PUAs who have something to offer humanity as a whole. After all, I don’t care if a guy gets laid a lot. I care if that guy can get ME laid a lot – and I think the same is true for you. That is why I factor in the PUA’s ability to teach others into the ranking.
4. Contributions To The Community. This is a measure of how much the PUA “gives back” to others in the seduction community. This factor is all about the PUA’s willingness to help others, the knowledge and experience he’s willing to share, and the compassion he shows to those who need help. Too many PUAs look down on people not as successful with women as they are, and that’s not what the seduction community is about, so giving back to it should play a factor, in my opinion.
5. Philosophy. This comes down to the PUA’s outlook on life, women, and other men in general. It’s about how they live their lives, and whether they’re consistent with it. Some PUAs spout great philosophy, but don’t really believe in it or practice it. But it’s that core foundations which will influence their students, so I believe this is important in factoring the rankings.
6. Likability. One of the things I base my ranking on is whether I actually like the PUA or not. This is a subjective thing, but I feel its important, because there’s usually a reason I don’t like someone, and that reason has to do with them being a fake, fraud, evil bastard, or what have you. I like to think I have a fairly decent “B.S. Radar,” so when I meet a PUA in person, I can usually tell if they are legit or not after getting to know them, which is why I tend to rank PUAs I have actually met in real life. If I haven’t met them, I need to get good feedback from at least 3 sources I trust to make the decision to rank them in this category.
Okay, so now that you know how I rank the list, let’s get to it!
Read more
The Top 10 Pick Up Artists Of 2008
January 9, 2009 by Thundercat
Filed under Top 10 Lists
Welcome one and all to the Top 10 list of best Pick Up Artists for the year 2008!
2008 was a strange year – for me personally, and for a lot of others, I think. In many ways, I’m glad the year is over. But regardless of how good of a year it was, there were many people in the seduction community who continued to rise above petty squabbles and drama and actually help other men improve their lives and their success with women, and this list is a CELEBRATION of those men, who have helped others throughout the past year.
For those of you new to the list, let me explain how the rankings work. It becomes very easy to get “caught up” in the hype of certain personalities, so I try and rank the Top 10 based on a number of criteria, which I believe must be present to be considered a good “PUA.” So all of this years winners were ranked based on:
1. In-Field Performance. This is basically the skills the PUA displays in the field with women. Most Top 10s deal with this factor exclusively, but I’ve found that just looking at a guy’s in-field performance can be misleading, since people have off-nights or can get lucky. That said, their ability to use the techniques in field repeatedly and consistently to get results is a big, big factor in the ranking process.
2. Innovations. This is what new outlook or techniques the PUA brings to the table. It’s easy for any new guy to get good using Mystery Method or any other school of seduction, but then again, that stuff is designed to work! So being innovative and bringing a new twist, spin, philosophy, technique, or whatever to the mix is also a big deal, because that means the PUA actually has something to contribute to his students and the community as a whole that no one else does.
3. Teaching Ability. This is how effectively the PUA can teach what he does to other people, and have them get similar results. This is another important factor, because it weeds out the people who are just the lucky naturals, and finds the PUAs who have something to offer humanity as a whole. After all, I don’t care if a guy gets laid a lot. I care if that guy can get ME laid a lot – and I think the same is true for you. That is why I factor in the PUA’s ability to teach others into the ranking.
4. Contributions To The Community. This is a measure of how much the PUA “gives back” to others in the seduction community. This factor is all about the PUA’s willingness to help others, the knowledge and experience he’s willing to share, and the compassion he shows to those who need help. Too many PUAs look down on people not as successful with women as they are, and that’s not what the seduction community is about, so giving back to it should play a factor, in my opinion.
5. Philosophy. This comes down to the PUA’s outlook on life, women, and other men in general. It’s about how they live their lives, and whether they’re consistent with it. Some PUAs spout great philosophy, but don’t really believe in it or practice it. But it’s that core foundations which will influence their students, so I believe this is important in factoring the rankings.
6. Likability. One of the things I base my ranking on is whether I actually like the PUA or not. This is a subjective thing, but I feel its important, because there’s usually a reason I don’t like someone, and that reason has to do with them being a fake, fraud, evil bastard, or what have you. I like to think I have a fairly decent “B.S. Radar,” so when I meet a PUA in person, I can usually tell if they are legit or not after getting to know them, which is why I tend to rank PUAs I have actually met in real life. If I haven’t met them, I need to get good feedback from at least 3 sources I trust to make the decision to rank them in this category.
Okay, so now that you know how I rank the list, let’s get to it! Read more
Top 10 Contest 2008: Best Product
January 8, 2009 by Thundercat
Filed under Top 10 Lists
Hey guys,
Great job with the other contests! We definitely have some winners there. Remember, I’ll be announcing the winnners TOMORROW, along with the unveiling of the Top 10 PUAs of 2008.
But for now, how about another contest worth $100?
Tell me what you thought was the best product of 2008. The course you got that changed your life forever! One caveat is that the product had to have been released during 2008, so nothing from before that – even if its new to you! Also be sure to include WHY you thought the product was so good, and mention where others can find it.
I may hold off until Sunday to announce the winner of this one since the Top 10 comes out tommorrow, unless of course someone writes a great entry really quickly, in which case I’ll just make the announcement along with the others.
Don’t forget – it is totally possible to win more than one contest! That means if you enter all three with a good entry, you can get $300!
So be sure to check back tomorrow for the unveiling of the Top 10 list! I’m sure it will surprise some people.
Top 10 Contest 2008: Best New PUA
January 6, 2009 by Thundercat
Filed under Top 10 Lists
Hey guys,
So far, no winners on the Craziest Drama contests. None of you guys really seem to be putting forth any effort in explaining what the best drama was and why it was so much fun. I’m looking for PASSION, people! I’ll be extending all contests deadlines to Friday and announcing the winnners at the same time as the unveiling of the Top 10 list to give people more time to participate.
Today’s contest is who you think the best new PUA on the scene in 2008 was. You have to give their name, a detailed reason why you think they’re so good, and any links to back up your statements (blog posts, videos showing them doinng their thing, etc.)
Winner of this contest gets… $100!
So if you win both contests, that’s $200 smackers in your pocket.
Top 10 2008 Contest 1: Craziest Drama
January 4, 2009 by Thundercat
Filed under Top 10 Lists
Okay guys, Day 1 of our countdown to the Top 10 list this year is an easy one…
What do you think was the craziest community “drama” to happen in 2008? Please give a *DETAILED* explanation as to why you think it is the craziest, what impact (if any) it had in the community, and what you enjoyed the most about it.
The winner of this contest will get…
$100!
Right out of me own pocket, to spend on whatever you want.
Sound good?
Winner gets announced on Wednesday. If no one gives me anything good, or no one enters, I’ll just roll the prize money into the next contest.
So get yer butt into the comments thread of this post and start submitting your entries. Can you submit more than one? Fo’ sure. But remember: You can’t win if you don’t enter! So if you’re one of those hoity-toity types who wipes his arse with Benjamins, don’t bother entering.
For the rest of you, I look forward to seeing your entries!
I’m Baaaa-aaack…
January 4, 2009 by Thundercat
Filed under Top 10 Lists
S’up party people.
In case you didn’t notice, I took a little “mental health” break from the blog for a few months. Just needed some time to unwind and have fun instead of dealing with people who wanna hate on me and threaten lawsuits and the like.
I wanna apologize to those of you who liked my Pick Up Artists Recaps. I had tivoed all the episodes with the intent of doing recaps, but honestly, I just couldn’t bring myself to do it. I really, really, REALLY did not enjoy this season and it was a great deal of effort to sit there and make up masturbating serial killer jokes – something which just simply should NOT be work… ever.
Maybe if I’m feeling really masochistic some day, I’ll download the eps I missed on iTunes and recap them then. But otherwise, I’m going to have to stop.
One thing I will NOT stop, however, is my TOP 10 PUA LIST.
I usually release the list on New Years Eve/Day, at least traditionally, but I found myself in a situation this year where I was without internet for a good week and a half, so I was not able to post this year’s rankings.
But I will, in fact, be posting the 2008 list THIS FRIDAY, January 9th.
Why this Friday? So I can spend some time this week giving away the obligatory fan-fare prizes that go along with the unveiling of the list! Duh.
As always, prizes will be dispensed based on Blog Participation, so you’ll want to check in every day leading up to Friday to see what the new contest is.
This year I’ll be giving away mostly money, since it’s too much of a hassle to deliver prizes and crap to people. So I hope you guys out there are a fan of cash! Because this year, I’m gonna be giving away a LOT of it. Savvy?
So let’s get started with the TOP 10 COUNTDOWN, BABY!!!!
The Top 10 Pick-Up Artists Of 2003
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis, Top 10 Lists
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03
Okay, so the debate has been raging for a while now over who is the best PUA (Pick-Up Artist) out there. Obviously, a lot of egos are involved in this statement, and everyone has their own opinions about who the best really is. In fact, its so subjective, that I don’t really think there will ever be a clear and honest answer on the subject. Its like asking who the best warrior or soldier is in a war. But the fact of the matter remains, no one can ever ALWAYS be the best. They’re always going to have their off days — be a little bit slow, a little bit late, a little bit unprepared or caught off guard. But that doesn’t stop some people from categorizing the people in our little community as “The Best.” So I’ve decided to throw my hat in the ring and rate the top 10 PUAs operating out there.
However, only the people I have met personally are eligible for my list. There could very well be many great PUAs out there that beat these guys out, but I have not met them and cannot verify their skills personally, so they are off my list for now, though I will mention a few afterwards who I think are worthy of it. Also, my rankings are not based on sheer skill alone, rather, they are based on consistency, and what I have seen as far as how often they are practicing what they preach. So keep that in mind as we go through this.
Thundercat’s Top 10 Pick-Up Artist
1. Style: Style is definitely, hands down, bar none, the best operating in the game today. This guy is probably the most evil, sneaky, manipulative bastard I have ever seen in operation. The thing is, this guy comes in totally under the radar, and that is why he is so dangerous. His subtlety is so amazing, that before you know it, you are qualifying yourself to him and he has you right where he wants you. And the thing is, he does it with both girls AND guys. No one is safe. To give you an idea of how incredible Style is, he’s practically invented most of the techniques a lot of the top guys, like Mystery and Tyler Durden, are using and teaching. He is practically Machiavellian in nature, and is someone I both admire and fear. I should also point out that I have a special, non-gay, place in my heart for this man, because it was with his help that I broke down my barrier with approaching women, so I owe a lot of my current game and success to Style, which is another reason why I rate him #1.
2. Swinggcat: Swinggcat comes in at a close second, and would in fact probably be number one if it weren’t for the fact that that he is a better looking guy than Style. Swinggcat is a pretty hip looking (think a shorter version of Vince Vaughn in Swingers and you get a rough idea of what Swinggcat looks like), whereas Style is a skinny, bald, jewish guy. Swinggcat is just as evil, sneaky, and manipulative, but considering what Style has to overcome in the looks department, that puts his game above Swingg’s. That said, I have seen Swinggcat in action on numerous occasions and am amazed at a lot of his game. The way he is able to process and sum up the information girls give him and turn their frame around is truly a sight to see. Not only that, he is so intuative, he can make up cold readings on the fly and be almost 100% accurate, which is fuckin’ creepy. His book only scratches the surface of his vast knowledge, and I think we’ll be getting a lot of good (and evil) stuff from his upcoming newsletters.
3. Zan: Zan is not a name that is very well known in the community, but having met the guy and seen him in action, I am convinced he is one of the top dudes out there when it comes to picking up chicks. In fact, I’d have even placed him at number 1 if it wasn’t for the fact that this guy is a “natural” seducer, and therefore what he does cannot be taught to others. But in accordance with the sheer skill of his game, he lays all others flat on their back. The thing is, the guy looks like a male model. He’s 40 years old, but looks like he’s 20. He actually USED to be a model, in fact, back in France in the 80′s I think, and his girlfriend was Monica Bellucci of the Matrix fame (hey, don’t hate the player, hate the game =). Currently, the guy has between 6 and 9 hot ass girlfriends who ALL know about each other, and apparently he enjoys many 3-somes and fuck buddies to boot. Not only that, but Zan has one of the most amazing philosophies on life I have ever heard. He spends his time moving towards beauty and away from things that are not beautiful. I hung out with the guy for only 3 days, but I am secure enough in my masculinity to say that if I was a chick, I’d have been all over him. Probably the coolest guy in the community. He was on stage at the Chicago DYD seminar, and if David DeAngelo ever decides to sell the audio to that thing, you’ll get a real treat hearing Zan speak about inner game. Simply amazing.
4. Maddash: Maddash, like Zan, is also a successful, good looking, older guy. He’s a big proponant of the “No Game” game, which is pretty much emulating the behaviors of “naturals,” such as Zan, and because of that, Maddash’s game comes off as very subtle and natural. When I saw him in action I was very impressed. It seems like he gets a new girl every night. The thing about Maddash is that his life is not ruled by PUA, he is very much into business and athletics as well. Pick-up is just a small factor of his life, but one he strives to perfect — and boy, does he do a good job at it.
5. Craig: Craig probably deserves to be higher on the list, but unfortuneately, I think the four people above him beat him as far as technique goes. That said, Craig is VERY good. He is the king of the short-set method. This is basically where you approach a set of women, say something funny/amusing, then move onto the next set and repeat. Its a very good way of being social and works great in bar scenes. Its also good for creating social proof. Craig is also a very funny guy, and his dancing skills help attract attention from others (in a good way, mind you). The quality of women Craig gets is quite high. I have yet to see him with a girl I would rank lower than a 9 on the looks scale. Not only that, but he seems to get them pretty consistantly. However, the fact that he comes off as a good looking frat guy, the fact that he has appeared on Elimidate, and the fact that he lives on a beach, are all contributing factors to his success — but that does not take away from the fact that he is very skilled. He is also one of the few PUAs I’ve seen that can do all his shit effectively while drunk. He was also on stage at the Chicago DYD seminar, so you may hear stuff from him fairly soon.
6. Mystery: Okay, I know Mystery is gonna be pissed that I rank him so low (or not. He probably doesn’t give a shit what I think. Can ya blame him?), but in my opinion, for as good as Mystery is, the other 5 guys are better. The thing about Mystery is that he’s incredibly good at raising his value in other’s eyes. I’ve seen him pull off some amazing instances of social proof with his magic tricks, and he is incredibly entertaining, funny, and exciting. Its easy to get caught up in Mystery’s spell. That said, the reason I rate him #6 is because I do not feel his long game is very good. I always get the sense that Mystery has a hard time genuinely connecting with people, and this effects his long term relationships. It seems like he can be very insecure at times and needs constant validation from others, which leads to a lot of mind games that get him his validation, but at the same time succeeds in pushing people away from him. Whether or not this is intentional, I don’t know, but it happens. He also seems to care more about adjusting his game to suit the girl than making the girl adjust to his game, which I think ends up hurting his pick-up in the long run because it is not really congruent with who he is and how he presents himself long term. In fact, if you hang out with Mystery long enough, you get the sense that everything he talks to you about is a pattern, and he always ends up bringing the conversation back to his favorite topic, which is, of course, himself. And that is the reason I put him at #6.
7. Tyler Durden: Tyler is one of the big “up and comers” in the community. His posts made him a legend on ASF, and then once he teamed up with Papa and started doing workshops, his stock only rose. For a while, there was speculation as to whether or not TD was all talk, but he proved to everybody that he was legit in the Vegas Mystery Method workshop where he not only got laid, but got Style and Mystery laid as well. I have seen Tyler at work in the field, and he is impressive. He is a genuinely funny and engaging guy with lots of interesting stuff to talk about. His posts are some of the most interesting to read in the community as well, and he backs up his teachings with lots of field experience. However, like Mystery, I get the sense that TD has problems in his long game. When he picks chicks up, he does so from the frame where he makes the girls feel like “bad girls” or “sluts.” This works good for party girls and good girls alike, but on day two when the frame wears off, the girls associate that feeling with him and then flake, because feeling bad and slutty might be exciting for a night, but long term it is not a good feeling. TD also comes off as very gay. This is not a bad thing per say, but he has adopted the “hot chick” frame so congruently, that I think when girls sleep with him, its almost incongruent with who they thought he was. I could, of course, be totally wrong in this assessment since I haven’t hung out and sarged with Tyler as much as I’d like, but I’m going off of what I have noticed.
8. Primoman: Primoman is a dude that is no longer an active member of the community, but he is still a pick-up artist in every sense of the word. Primoman is known as the “King of the Ugs.” He is a dude who I’ve yet to see without a girl on his arm. Allbeit, that girl is usually ugly, or fat, or a combination of the two, but nonetheless, it is a girl. Primoman is not so much about quality as he is about QUANTITY. He probably lays more girls than any other guy in the community, but he is also not too picky with his prospects. Regardless, he gets laid a LOT! And that’s what it all comes down to in the end. His game is very Juggler in nature. In fact, he is quite AFC in his approach, but he is just so congruent with who he is and gently persistent in his sarge, that he eventually wins the girl over. Lately he’s been working his way up the “looks” scale as far as his girls go, so he may be giving Style a run for his money some day.
9. Sickboy: Sickboy is a protogee of Tyler and Papa. He’s a New Yorker and is best known for his appearance in the movie Zoolander as one of the male models in the movie. Yes, that’s right, the guy looks like a male model. But despite this, he is incredibly down to earth and has absolutely no ego about himself. He’s a very easy guy to talk to and a good friend. His game is also quite solid, though I do think it’s helped greatly by his looks. I think his frames aren’t as strong as they could be, but he definitely has the subtleties of PUA down pat. He recently spoke to the NYC lair and that’s a great read if you can find the transcripts somewhere. He’s a guy to look out for.
10. Harmless: Harmless is not what you would expect from a PUA. He’s pretty prolific on ASF, and seems to know his shit. The thing is, the guy comes off very much as his name describes him — Harmless. He’s a pretty average looking guy who seems very unassuming at first. But then you see the guy in action, and he’s very good. I think he comes across much like Mystery and TD, where he raises his value in the girl’s eyes by being entertaining and engaging. I know I enjoy talking to the guy, if that’s any indication. I haven’t seen enough of his game in action to critique it any further, but I do know he’s going to start teaching workshops soon, so his game’s gotta be pretty high. Regardless, he’s one to keep an eye on.
HONORABLE MENTIONS
There are a number of other people out there who probably deserve to be on this list, but like I said before, I have not had a chance to really see them in action. But here are a few who I think deserve a mention.
Bad Boy — Apparently this guy is amazing. I know TD gets a lot of his AMOG tactics from Bad Boy. He’s a croatian pick-up artist who was injured in the Bosnian war, which makes his game so much more incredible considering he was almost killed and still suffers the effects from that somewhat. Apparently the guy is very fearless and straight-forward agressive with women. In fact, some would descibe his game as all cocky and no funny, which is probably why its so effective. Not only that, but he is supposed to be incredibly congruent. I know he’s currently fucking Miss Croatia and using her as a pawn to pull other women for threesomes if that tells you anything about his game.
Toecutter – I don’t know the guy personally and all I have to go off of are his posts on ASF and Mystery’s Lounge, but this guy seems to have it going on. I know TD studdied his archive like the dead sea scrolls, and his posts convey a very congruent attitude. I’m interested in seeing him in action, and if I’m ever in Canada I’ll see if I can’t hook up with him.
MTLPUA — Don’t know much about him, but I hear he’s really good.
David X — I know Clifford had good things to say about him.
Chet – The Chetinator! I got to see him speak in Chicago. Supposedly he’s god-like with women, but I have yet to see him in action and can’t say for sure.
Adam – The “natural.” Look to see great things from this guy in the future!
Masterclass — The guy is currently juggling 4 girls right now. He’s also an incredibly sneaky speed seducer who is moving more into the cocky/funny stuff and having great success. Right now, I think his game could be up there with the best there is if he got past his fear of approaching.
Rick H. — The legend. I have not hung out with the guy yet, but I’m sure when I do, it’ll be veeeeeeery interesting. =)
Ross Jeffries — I’ve hung out with Ross on a few occasions now and have only sarged with him once. From what I saw, I liked, but have not done enough field work with him to accurately rate the guy. I know Papa speaks highly of him, and he’s been out in the field with him more than I have.
Papa – I go out with Papa all the time, so I’m a bit biased when it comes to his skill level. He teaches at all of TD and Mystery’s workshops as well, and his field reports are always worth a read. He’s also single-handedly bringing this community together, so he has to be respected for that at the very least. The reason I didn’t put him in the top 10 was because much of his material is from Style and Tyler. I think in order to be in the top 10, a PUA needs to be developing his own style. One thing I will say about Papa is that he is incredibly good with creating strong frames.
Alphamale – This guy is incredibly impressive. Most of his game is based on using pivots to pull girls for him. I haven’t hung out with the guy enough to get an idea of how good he is, but from what I have seen, his game is awesome.
Well, there ya go, my Top 10. Hopefully one day I’ll make my list, but I doubt it! I’m much too hard on myself, lol.
That’s why they call me…
Thundercat
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