Brad P Responds To This Year’s Top 10 Ranking

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Hello All,

It’s Brad P., I’m writing here on Thundercat’s site today for a few reasons.

Firstly, I wish to congratulate all the guys who were named to the top 10 list. Although I don’t know all these guys and haven’t seen them in field, one thing I can tell you is that Thundercat puts a lot of time and effort into the research that goes into this list. He is in a unique position in some ways, because he has been around the community for so long, he has seen it all. He’s seen more fake gurus come and go than just about anyone anyone. He’s also been along side some of the greatest during their rise to the top, and he’s generally pretty fair to people.

Top Ten lists like this one, and a few of the others out there, are easy to dismiss as dick-crack. But if you’re new to this, and you don’t know where to turn, it can be quite helpful.

I’ve also taken a quick look at the responses, and I see there’s far less hate and controversy than usual. There’s a few people making well thought our comments, a few no-name gurus trying to attach their name to this thing, and that’s about it. Usually you have 150 people hurling personal insults at Thundercat, which really doesn’t help anyone get to the goal.

The goal is this:

The public needs to know who’s a good person to study with and who’s not. There’s no other purpose to a Top Ten List. Read more

The Pick Up Artist 2, Ep. 2 Recap: I Like Pickle-Juice

Warning:  This Recap Contains Spoilers!

Hey there boys and girls, its time for yet another fun-filled recap of VH1′s The Pick Up Artist!  So dust off your over-sized goggles and put on your sleeveless fur-lined vests, its time to waste yet another hour of your life watching geeks embarrass themselves and strike out with chicks.

We start the episode with the remaining contestants in shocked disbelief that Fat Gay Alex got his ample posterior kicked off the show.  Apparently, none of the guys have actually SEEN the first season, and know that people get eliminated from the mansion – especially if they are:  fat, gay, old, or a race other than white.

Matt Powers is so upset, he says “Its going to be hard to sleep tonight.”  Funny, I thought it’d be hard to sleep with Fat Gay Alex prowling around the bunkbeds in the dark, looking for unsuspecting nerds to molest.  But what do I know?

The next day, the group is whisked away to a “secret location” (which looks disturbingly like a low-rent porno store in the Valley).  They’re at a mysterious “Italian Club,” with Mystery, Matador, and Tara waiting out front, along with a mysterious looking doorman.

Simeon starts salivating, saying he thinks they’ve been whisked away to a STRIP CLUB, and then starts masturbating furiously.  Little does he know that no stripper would be up in the daytime to hang out with a bunch of geeks with no money – but hey, let the guy dream.

Mystery is looking to start helping the guys build their confidence when talking to women.  So for their first reward challenge (i.e. the challenge where you get Tara to do something demeaning afterward) the guys get to spend quality time with some “quality ladies.”

Hmmmm.  In the first season, a line like that was followed by storytime with a class full of first-grade girls.  I’m thinking this year they may have put a twist on it and gone with geriatrics.  Will I be proven correct?

Asian Brian is hoping to meet some strippers, club girls, or FREAKS.  Either way, he’s so excited his afro starts steaming.

So the challenge is to approach some women and have a conversation.  Simple, right? The guy who makes the best impression wins a “secret accessory” from Mystery’s private collection, and a special tutoring session on how to use it.  Though, I’m sure most of these contestants already know how to use ruphies. Read more

The Pick Up Artist Season 2 Ep 1 Recap: Bling Bling

SPOILER ALERT:  This recap contains spoilers for the first episode of the Pick Up Artist 2

Well, another year has gone by, which means its time for VH1 to grace the airwaves with yet another season of The Pick Up Artist – starring the one and only Mystery.

Yes, just when you thought it was safe to watch VH1 again, the network that has brought us such cultural icons as Flava Flav and evil Dustin Diamond, is now treating us to another 8 episodes of geeks getting different colored pendants for not embarrassing themselves in front of women.  Huzzah!

The show starts off by reminding everyone about how Mystery is the world’s greatest pick up artist (and snazziest dresser!), telling us about how big of a geek he used to be by showing pictures of him holding a plastic spoon.  Yes, it seems VH1′s definition of “loser who can’t get laid” is synonymous with guys who allow themselves to be photographed holding plastic cutlery.

Then we’re reminded of our favorite trainwrecks from last season – Kosmo, Brady, Joe D, Gay Joe, Spoon, Pradeep, Old Dude, and geeky guy who’s name I can’t remember – and how Mystery “helped” them.  Now that Kosmo is a real Pick Up Artist, he’s been forced to shave his head, wear affliction t-shirts, and share with Mystery’s students the lessons he learned from living with Gay Joe the first season…

“Just open your mouth, don’t be afraid to experiment,” says Kosmo.  (Yeah, people paid $2,000 to hear that bit of advice.)

Now that the recap’s over, its time to prepare ourselves for a new season of the Pick Up Artist, where the challenge is even BIGGER (i.e. the contestants are geekier, gayer, uglier, and asianer).  Also, I’m sure the challenge had a little to do with the fact that women are now on guard for hidden camera pick ups.  But whatever.

Matador is back as Mystery’s wingman, sporting a new beard and a greasier wig.  J-Dog is out, and now Tara is in, so she gets to bring her milkshake to the yard every episode now.  Whether or not she’ll be forced to tongue-down the contestants is still up in the air, but we shall see.

What makes Tara qualified to teach guys how to meet women?  “I’m a woman!” she exclaims.  Yay.  So’s my mom, but that doesn’t mean her advice for getting chicks is any good.  Where’s that other girl from the first season?  She was way hotter than Tara and didn’t talk as much.  Give her the wingwoman spot, fer cryin’ out loud.

Anyway, cue the show intro, and its time to start another season of awkwardness on the Pick Up Artist. Read more

Swingcat’s Open Loop Theory

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03
**Image removed

YEEEEEEAH! Damn, I’m buzzed. Just heard one of my favorite shows — Carnivale — got renewed by HBO for a second season. I swear, if I only had HBO on my TV and no other channel, I’d be happy. Their original programming is the best on TV! Carnivale, coupled with The Wire and the Sopranos are a few of the shows I set everything aside for to watch. I am really jazzed! You can find the announcement at the Hollywood Reporter by following this link:

Carnivale Renewed

Now, someone had to go on the SS list and start blasting my favorite fall season show by saying its too frustrating to watch. In fact, he said that it was an example of going too far with “open loops.” Now, what they’re doing discussing Swinggcat terminology on the SS board is beyond me, especially considering that Ross is a stickler for not talking about other people’s products (but since Swinggcat used to be his top student, I guess he’s making exceptions). Anyway, this discussion brought up an interesting point about open loops.

For those of you who don’t know what an Open Loop is, its a verbal form of creating insecurity, anticipation, and a need to qualify through the use of creating an open ended story. Yes, that’s a round-a-bout explanation, but its the best I can do from memory. Swinggcat has a whole chapter in his book about open loops that explains it better than I ever could. But an example of an open loop would be something like:

PUA: “You know, this place reminds me of when I was in a german sex show with my girlfriend.”
HB: “You were in a german sex show? What happened?”
PUA: “Well I was in Germany because I love McDonalds ice cream, and I made it a personal goal to try McDonalds ice cream in every country in the world. Don’t you just love ice cream?”

So what’s happening there? You set up the fact that you were doing something exotic and forbidden, but you fail to pay it off and start talking about something silly and stupid. But the whole time you’re doing that, the other person will be thinking “Yes, but what about the sex show!!!???” and if they ask you, you start talking about something else, never quite giving them what they want. That’s an open loop. Its an interesting hook that someone wants closure on, and you’re the only one who can give it to them, but you don’t. You make them work for it. Its a very sneaky, subtle, eeeeevil way to get people to qualify themselves to you. They’ll be saying shit like “Please tell me! Pleeeeeaaaaase!” And you can grin and say “I’m not sure you’ve earned it yet.” Hopefully you’re smart enough to know what that implies.

So anyway, on the SS list, there was a lot of talk about how open loops are ineffective because they are so frustrating. What many fail to understand is that open loops are MEANT to be frustrating, and that is why they feel that way. Open loops create insecurity and anticipation, two very important factors in attraction.  If you get pissed off when someone uses open loops on you, it means its working.

But there is an argument that people who intuitively use open loops end up creating an atmosphere around them that ultimately drives people away instead of attracting them, and therefor open loops should not be used. I think the important word here is “intuitive.” People who do this stuff intuitively are destined to mess it up because they do not have a conscious awareness of how this shit works.

Open loops are a way of creating drama.  They are meant to rope other people into your reality by giving them just enough to get interested, and then taking it away so they actively pursue you.

When you have a conscious awareness of how open loops work, you can use them to attract people to you.  When you do not, you can over use them and cause people to become frustrated and angry because they realize the hopelessness in their pursuit.  Women tend to overuse this tactic because they are emotional creatures and easily distracted by stimuli (this is a bit of an over-generalization here, but I’ve found it is  fairly accurate for attractive women).  It also goes towards creating drama and turmoil in their personal lives, something many women crave and create.

I think the use of open loops is a valuable tool in seduction.  I’ve seen some extremely talented Pick-Up Artists us it to great effect. But I tend to agree that if overused, any of these skills become ineffective and even detrimental to your pick-up.  That’s part of the trick to being good at this, is knowing WHEN and HOW to use these tactics.

For more information on open loops, you can either try and catch reruns of Carnivale, or buy Swinggcat’s book at Real World Seduction.

Ho!

Thundercat

The Social Circle of Life

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03

Okay all you AFCs,

Here is a copy of my most recent article from Cliff’s List on Social Circles. Aside from the gay title, I think its pretty good. I’m still looking for my article on walk-ups. When I find that, I’ll post it.

Ho!

Thundercat

******************************************************

The Social Circle Of Life
How to Create the Best Possible Environment for Getting Laid
An Essay by Tundercat

I’ll be the first to admit it. I’m a nerd. I like to watch TV, go to movies, read books, play on my computer, and even partake in the occasional MMORPG. But when I’m not waxing philosophical about who could kick who’s ass — Kirk or Han Solo — I’m out trying to pick up chicks.

The thing is, what I do is cold approaches. Cold Approaches are basically approaches where you approach a woman you do not know in the hopes of attracting her so you can lay her. Without a doubt, this is probably the hardest form of Pick-Up there is. Why? Well, for one thing, the Fear Factor on cold approaches is the highest. They don’t know you, you don’t know them, and the risk of getting rejected is high. This is one of the reasons many people cannot do cold approaches. It is just much too scary.

But the reason I do them is because I currently have no better option available to me. If I don’t cold approach a girl, I won’t meet any. But a funny thing happens if you cold approach enough girls. You become friends with them!

As strange as it sounds, it is true. Though the average Pick-Up Artist (PUA) is not looking to make friends with the girls he approaches, odds are if they like you enough to fuck you, you will become friends. And even if they don’t want to fuck you, the least they are willing to become is a friend because they enjoy your company enough.

This is a funny little side effect to approaching, and because of it, my eyes were opened to something. It’s a dirty little secret, yet one that is so obvious I am surprised that I did not see it before. Are you ready? Okay, here it is:

Most people get laid from their social circles.

This is a fact, my friends. Sure, cold approaching can lead to the occasional one night stand (ONS), or even a same day lay that blossoms into a relationship. But very rarely does this happen. In fact, it happens so rarely, that I really rate my approach success based on the quality of numbers I get. I say quality because anyone can get a number, but a number from a girl who actually gives you her REAL number and will actually RETURN your phone call is so much more important than the quantity of numbers one receives.

But of all the guys I hang around with who get laid, the ones who do so with the most frequency are those with large social circles that include women in them. For instance, I have a friend who is going to college. He belongs to a number of groups: Martial Arts, Role Playing, Historical Reenactment, etc. And he gets laid. He gets laid a LOT. Probably more than most PUAs, and DEFINITELY more than me. The funny thing is, this guy DOES NOT APPROACH! In fact, he’s just as scared at approaching women as 90% of the guys reading mASF (moderate Alt Seduction Fast) are.

When I noticed this, I took a good look at the guys I know who are getting laid frequently, and sure enough, there was the proof. They were all getting laid from either girls they already knew, or met through friends, family, or some type of hobby.

This is an incredible revelation for me because social circles have always been the primary dipping source for men I knew were getting laid. Back in my AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) days, I’d only hang out with my guy friends, who weren’t getting laid either. I’d do solitary activities, play on the computer, and take part in social activities that were typically heavily attended by males. In short, my social circle did not include women, and because of that, I did not get laid.

As my awareness of women grows, along with my seduction skills, I am beginning to realize that being a PUA is not just about getting laid, but cultivating a social circle conducive to interacting with women ON A DAILY BASIS.

Most of the men I have met who are not getting laid or who are struggling to get laid are the ones whose social circles are almost completely empty of women, and the women who do encompass their social circles do not interact with them regularly.

A scary truth about guys not getting laid is that they are not comfortable talking to women. Sometimes, I STILL do not feel comfortable talking to women. And this can show in your sarging (interacting with women with the intent of laying them). I am willing to bet that most guys who cannot talk to or approach women do not have many female friends in their social circles. And if they do, the girls are friends they would like to fuck. They do not know what it is like to truly be friends with a girl they do not want to sex up, and because of that, there is always a feeling of comfortableness just below the surface of their interaction with girls, which the girls can pick up on and which completely throws off the guy’s state.

So the trick is to expand your social circle so it becomes something that is conducive to getting you laid.

The fact is, a female friend is the most powerful tool you have in your seduction arsenal, especially if she is attractive. Approaching other women with another woman who can social proof you and talk you up is probably the single most invaluable trick there is to approaching. When you have a female with you who is actively working to HELP you get laid, chances are it will happen, and more quickly than if you were acting on your own. Not only that, but the girl will also have friends that she will try to hook you up with if you demonstrate youв’re cool enough to be her friend. Through these girls, you will find your comfort around women increase, along with you success rate.

So how do you do this? Well, the first step is to befriend a girl. How is this done? Well, most AFCs (Average Frustrated Chumps) have had a lot of experience with the “Let’s Just Be Friends” area of life. But this is not the same thing. The fact is, with the “Let’s Just Be Friends” stigma, you are not really the girl’s friend because you still want to fuck her and she knows it.

The best way I know how to expand your social circle is to befriend other GUYS who are good with women. Not the type of guys who use women and throw them away, but the type of guys who are fun and always surrounded by girls. You befriend this guy, and he will introduce you to the girls who surround them. You can meet these guys anywhere, and it’s much easier to approach and make friends with men because there is no sexual tension there. You guys can connect on basic male subjects such as sports, women, business, etc. If nothing else, you may make a new valuable male friend out of the deal.

You can meet these guys anywhere you go, be it a club, bar, museum, concert, etc. It doesn’t matter. You will meet them doing stuff you like to do. Most guys will go for the girls right away, but if you befriend the guy who is IN with the girls, he will help you to get them.

Once in with the guys, its time to move onto the girls. Have him introduce you. Tell the girls how good of a friend he is. Show them that you’re a cool guy. Become their friends. The cooler the guy you befriend, the hotter the women he knows. The hotter the women he knows, the better quality of women they will introduce you to.

The next step will take a bit of willpower on your part, but you want to actually BEFRIEND the girl with the knowledge that you are not going to sleep with her. No matter how hot she is, you must take her out of the “I wanna FUCK!” category. This is crucial because if you go after her for the full monty (fuck), you could screw up the friendship.

But once she’s your friend, you can practice on her. Talk to her, call her up and bullshit, go out with her, let her feel safe and comfortable around you. Once she’s your buddy, get her to introduce you to her friends. Those are the ones you game on. This is because you’ll be at an advantage with them. Not only will you have a girl who is their friend hyping you up, but you’ll also be social proofed by the guy you befriended, who has also probably met the girl you’re being introduced to. Right there is instant social proof that you’re cool enough to hang with them. Then its time to game the girl, which should be easier than cold approaching because the meeting is inherent.

But when it comes to cold approaching, the women you befriend become even more powerful. This is where the real fun can happen. You can use your female friends to approach other groups of people. You can introduce her to the men while she does the same for you with the women. Not only that, its natural social proof when you’re with a girl, and you feel more comfortable talking to women, which makes you more attractive.

In fact, this is so powerful that I know PUAs who’s entire game is based on Social Circles. A woman you use to help you get laid is often referred to as a “Pivot” or a “Pawn.” They are used as pieces on a chessboard to break down defenses and open doorways to score checkmate.   One guy I know is SO effective with the girls in his social circle, that if there is a guy trying to get with a female friend of his, he will actually get the guy to pull him other chicks before he social proofs the guy with his friend. This is another great tactic, especially if you’re lazy about approaching. In this situation, not only are his pivots pulling other girls for him, but the guys after his pivots are as well. And in the end, all you’re getting is a bigger social circle which will make it easier to get laid.

It is very easy to befriend women, because when you make it clear you do not want to have sex with them, they can feel safe with you and allow you to “mess up” around them in practicing your PUA skills. Not only that, but being around women will teach you SO MUCH about pick-up, your game will rapidly increase.

In his book Real World Seduction, Swinggcat says “If you want to get good at picking-up women, surround yourself by five beautiful women who are good at getting guys.” This is important, because all the best PUAs just act like really hot chicks. They steal the chick frame that gets guys all into them and turn it around on the girls. The more you hang out with women, the more you will begin to incorporate this mindset into your seduction repertoire.

So friends, I recommend you go out there and start getting to know more girls in a non-sexual way. They will help you a great deal in adding some notches to your belt. I hope to expand my social circle massively in the coming future, so that I may also reap the benefits of having many lady friends.

Thundercat