“The Forbidden Truth” by Brad P.

August 22, 2008 by  
Filed under Articles, Brad P, Guest Authors

The intention of this report is to give a snapshot of the current state of dating science, and to make a few simple recommendations on how to improve the experiences of those who wish to become proficient in dating and seduction.

I expect some of this may be controversial at first, but I hope some of these recommendations will become standard practice in the future. I believe I have a unique vantage point on the matter, and that this report will help many men have more success with women.

About Me

I am a dating expert with a degree in psychology and philosophy. Before becoming a dating coach, I had several careers in “helping professions” where I learned how to teach people who are in difficult situations or are having trouble learning. Consider my background before you consider my theories on learning.

I was a basketball coach for 3 years, after playing on a championship winning NCAA college basketball team under an elite group of coaches, one of whom went on to coach in the NBA. This instilled in me the ability to push people, to get the most out of them, and how to impart a “winning mentality” to all the students I encounter.

I spent 2 years working with the mentally ill. I taught basic life skills to adults with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Schizophrenia, and a variety of learning disabilities. This is where I learned how to communicate ideas and skills in a way that is calibrated and customized for the listener’s level of comprehension.

I spent 4 years as a social worker. I worked in a youth center running substance abuse prevention programs for at-risk urban teens in Queens, New York City. This taught me to deal with resistant populations and multi-cultural settings.

I spent the first 26 years of my life as a nerd who had no ability to deal with women or attract women. I have a real understanding of the deep loneliness and fearfulness that men go through when they fail with women.

I spent my first 8 months of learning cold approaching women every single day. That’s 7 days a week. I continued approaching and dating lots of women for the next 4 years and I still am active to this day. Everything I teach comes from true life experience. There is no speculation, no guessing. It’s all things I’ve done myself.

I spent 2 years learning from naturals. I’ve learned from one natural who seduces women in ten minutes, another who has out-gamed Tommy Lee, and a third who approaches 20+ women every day of his life.

I’ve spent the last 4 years doing a mixture of cold approach pickup and long term open relationships, and I have an intimate knowledge of what it takes to get a woman, and what it takes to keep a woman. Anything you’ve ever wanted to do, chances are I’ve done it and I can teach it.

Since 2005, I’ve been running seminars and in-field workshops. I helped men from every walk of life, from the most socially inept to the highly accomplished professional. My students have had great success. A few high points include:

- 4 out of 6 students scoring from same day cold approaches in my 2008 Chicago Workshop

- Helping a 32 year old virgin lose his virginity despite his severe learning disabilities.

- Helping a number of older men (some in their 50s) score on the same day with women half their age.

My Seduction Community Experience

When I began teaching in March of 2005, the students were brand new the idea of studying dating and seduction and we did a lot of rudimentary work on their identity and skill set. After learning the simple fundamentals I was teaching, my first group of students had such a high success rate that my class quickly grew in popularity and attendance, and by 2006, men were contacting me from all over the world to learn from me.

During that first year, my success seemed to me to be an isolated phenomenon, but there was a worldwide movement going on that I wasn’t aware of, the Seduction Community.

I remember the first time I heard about the seduction community. I was teaching a seminar in 2005, and I asked if there were any questions. A young IT consultant raised his hand and said “I’m having a little trouble with A3.” I had no idea what he was talking about, and I felt a little silly being stumped at my own seminar. I told him “I’ll have to go home and look that one up.”

As I found out later, A3 is one of the stages in the M3 model, a seduction community system. This is one of the “internally consistent systems” I’ll be talking about later.

I spoke to this student and his friend after class, and I was floored by the amount of information they were able to repeat to me. They had about ten times more information than me. At the time, I thought they had large amounts of knowledge, but I found out later they didn’t. They only had information. There’s a big difference between having knowledge and having information.

When you have “information,” you can tell it to other people, you can pass a multiple choice quiz, you might even be able to impress a few people by convincing them that you have knowledge.

Truly having “knowledge” is when you are able to understand the relationships between different types of information. You’ll know when certain principles apply, and when they don’t. It’s very different. Having “knowledge” allows you to build skill and get results. Having information is just a prerequisite to obtaining knowledge.

So how did I find out that these guys only had information?

They signed up for one of my in-field trainings, and I went out to a few bars with them to meet women. Keep in mind these guy seemed to know ten times more than me. I had only been teaching for 6 months. I thought they were gonna mop the floor with me and demand a refund.

During the course of the night, I took five phone numbers and brought home a hot burlesque dancer. I had a great night. My know-it-all students, on the other hand, had a rough time. I gave them my standard lessons and did a few approaches for them to watch. Then I asked them to approach a pair of women at the bar so I could watch and critique them. They both looked at me with a panicked expression on their face. “Brad, I think we’re gonna just observe tonight,” they said.

I tried a few more times to get them to approach, but they were just too scared. They didn’t do one single approach.

As a new teacher, this was really confusing to me. How was it that these guys knew so much about seduction, but were unable to do even one single approach, even with the help of a coach?

They were keyboard jockeys. That’s how.

As I continued meeting more and more community guys, I would find out that many of them were keyboard jockeys. They have the information. They can spit it back to you, they can type it out on a computer screen, but they aren’t able to actually use ANY of the information they have. It’s a condition that’s widespread and rampant.

In 2006, I was a speaker at the “Cliff’s List” Convention, which was the largest gathering of seduction students in North America that year. After I did that, the community guys slowly took over my trainings and seminars until by 2007, there were no “regular guys” left, only community guys.

I continued my teaching, and I had many similar experiences that all lead to the same few conclusions.

1. There’s no shortage of information, the students already have tons of info.

2. About 80% of the information out there in the seduction community is of very high quality. Some of the techniques are so innovative and psychologically sound that it must have taken a genius to come up with them.

3. There’s a huge disconnect in the quality of the information and the ability of the students to utilize the information.

4. Most of this disconnect stems from inefficient teaching techniques, fearfulness, confusion, poor information timing, and the occasional bit of bad information.

If I could only get these guys to use the information they already had, they’d be getting great results.

The Gift of the Gurus

The volume of knowledge available in dating science today is simply staggering. It’s amazing to think that so many brilliant individuals spent years of their lives learning about women, and then spent even more time passing on their knowledge to the students.

The gurus have given a gift to each and every one of us, and we owe it to them and to ourselves to take this knowledge and put it to use by going into the field and applying what we’ve read. I take my hat off to every guy who’s ever spent real time in the field and then done his best to help others.

Really, I do.

That’s why I want to make it clear that I’m in no way indicting any other company or guru. All of them have awesome things to say.

But for some reason I’ve found that – no matter who the teacher – most guys still struggle to act upon the information they ingest.

The more I became aware of this, the more I began to modify my own teaching style. And the results were very satisfying.

The Infamous Chicago Six

The high point of my experience giving workshops came in February 2008, when I trained a group of guys in Chicago for 3 days. We did my typical workshop curriculum, and the end result was that 4 out of the 6 students took home a woman from a cold approach. A 66% rate of students getting laid in a workshop is unheard of and unprecedented. Even for me, getting 2 of 8 guys laid was more what I was used to. Something had changed. Something was working. Everything had been taken to a new level.

Was it me? Was it the students? Was it my coaches Sean and Gabriel? Or was it the system I had created? Maybe it was all of the above.

When word got out that 4 out of 6 guys scored, a few people asked if I taught them more than other workshops….but I didn’t. I actually taught them LESS.

I gave them less information than you would expect in a 3 day workshop, but everything I taught them was perfectly timed, motivating, specific, and actionable.

Did I teach them more? No.

Did they learn more? Yes.

This was a great success and a milestone for me, but I wanted to reach more people. In the big picture, getting 4 guys laid isn’t really that big of a deal. What about the guys who couldn’t take a workshop? What about the guys who were drowning out there in the mess of confusion we call the Internet? What would become of those guys?

My goal now is to create this same level of student success on a larger, more global scale. I intend to do this in 2 ways.

1. Directly: by building and implementing my “30/30″ Club, which is an affordable, streamlined system for becoming proficient in seduction in 12 months or less.

2. Indirectly: By releasing more information about my teaching methods to other companies, instructors, and to the seduction audience in general through this report.

That’s a little bit about me. Everything from here on out is just my opinion and you are free to toss it aside if you disagree. I believe that I’m in a unique position to be able to evaluate the current state of seduction literature and push dating science forward at a faster rate than anyone else.

Internally Consistent Systems

The body of literature, as it stands today, consists of a series of internally consistent systems.

What I mean by “internally consistent systems” is this: if you take ANY of the following systems and apply them accurately and consistently, you will get dates, sex, and/or relationships. Here are a few of the internally consistent systems that have been around for a while:

Double Your Dating (David DeAngelo)

Gunwitch Method (Allen “Gunwitch” Reyes)

Juggler Method (Wayne “Juggler” Elise)

Mystery Method (Mystery)

Brad P.’s Ten Timer Method (Brad P.)

The Emotional Progression Model (Savoy)

VAC Method (Vin DiCarlo and Sebastian Drake)

Social Circle Club Game (Brad P.)

10 Minute Seduction Technique (The Pheromone Kid)

It’s 2008, and students are still arguing on forums about which is the best system.

It’s 2008, and small time gurus continue creating derivative systems in attempts to increase their own notoriety.

The race to come up with the best system for picking up women is over. It’s been over for years.

In the year 2008, there exists a multitude of internally consistent systems for seducing and dating women. The problem now is that most of the men who study these systems don’t have intangibles to implement any of them. The real challenge is to create a teaching method that empowers the student with intangibles within a realistic time frame. It shouldn’t take 4 years to become proficient in dating and seduction. This is unacceptable. In 2008, I will release a new curriculum that will make men proficient in dating and seduction in 12 months or less. This is my mission.

Intangibles and Fundamentals

When I first was introduced to the seduction community, the first thing I noticed was that the students knew ten times more theory than me, but I was getting laid ten times more than them.

Think back on the two keyboard jockeys from 2005. They certainly knew more theory than me, they had purchased every eBook they could get their hands on. I brought them out into the field and both guys froze. They were sweating and trembling at the thought of talking to a woman.

These guys later got their act together with my help, and I credit them for introducing me to the seduction community along with Cliff and Fastseduction.com, but that’s besides the point.

The moral of the story is this: There’s little correlation between how much theory you know and your ability to get laid. The guys who have the balls to go get it will succeed, while the guys who know lots of theory will be watching from the sidelines.

Having theoretical knowledge of seduction is maybe 5% of the battle. The rest of it is the application of fundamentals. Here are the fundamentals, in order of importance:

1. Social Courage (“balls”)

2. Identity

3. Determination

4. Frame control

5. Body Language

6. Voice Tone

7. Discipline

8. Positivity

9. Image/Appearance

10. Genuine Sexual Intentions

If you have all of these pieces in place, a little bit of theory will take you a long way.

Dominance Projection

Why is having balls so important? Because almost all the tactics and strategies in dating science are forms of dominance projection. If one is to succeed with women, dominance is the most important trait to possess. Dominance is a prerequisite to acceptance, attraction, trust, rapport, arousal, excitement, and compliance.

As coaches and gurus, we’re trying to teach dominant behavior to men who are not very dominant to begin with.

Let’s take a look at the various ways that dating science teaches dominance to non-dominant men. Here are some ideas from the internally consistent systems I mentioned earlier:

Mental Dominance

Frame Control


Cocky Funny

Confusion Game

Sexual Hypnosis

Social Dominance

Social Proof




Emotional Dominance

Rapport Building

Commonality Building



Confusion Game

Sexual Persistence

Non-reactive behavior

Awareness Radius

Physical Dominance





Wrestling and Play-fighting

You can’t learn any of these skills by merely reading about them. You must start by reading them, and then apply them over and over until it becomes natural to you.

Social Anxiety

Non-dominant men who study seduction are exposed to a wealth of highly effective material, but are rarely able to apply this material. Most of these men are held back by social anxiety. Social anxiety inhibits the application of seduction material in many ways. If you’ve ever had any of these thoughts, then you know exactly what I’m talking about:

“I can’t talk to that girl now, what if the old lady sitting next to her is listening.”

“I can’t kino her now with all her friends around.”

“What if the people around me are watching me right now.”

Thoughts like these cause you to look visibly nervous to the woman you are interacting with. Many times, these kinds of thoughts prevent you from even approaching. In the big picture, social anxiety takes all the power out of those fantastic techniques invented by the gurus.

I’ve seen many students try to implement advanced seduction community tactics that are very well thought out. Usually the problem isn’t the tactic itself, it’s that the guy is visibly nervous while he’s implementing it. Then there’s others who just tell me about the technique later when the girl has already left. They don’t even try it, they just tell me about it.

Read through a few of these tactics from bristollair.com:

AMOG tactics by Tyler Dyrden:

“AMOG: Hey girls whats up (or whatever) PUA: Hey dude dude (putting hands up like you give up).. I will pay you a HUNDRED dollars right now, to take these girls away from me.
(Girls will go “no no no… we love you PUA.. noooooo” and giggle and crawl on you.. Again, immediately deflating to the guy)”

Tension Loops by Swingcat

“A Tension Loop is when you do something to create unresolved emotional tension inside a woman, increase it, release it by bringing closure to it, and then spark it all over again. This will keep her feeling the emotion of wanting and reaching and chasing for more of you.

Soap opera writers use Tension Loops to keep women enraptured in their fictitious dramas for months – sometimes years! The structure is always the same. The soap starts off with some form of conflict or drama, sparking unresolved emotional tension. Emotional tension increases up until the point of the climax. The tension, then, is released by bringing some resolution to the conflict or drama. And, finally, the show ends by sparking the tension all over again, compelling women to tune in for next week’s show.”

In my opinion this is brilliant stuff. Unfortunately, most of the students reading these techniques stand little chance of implementing them because of their social anxiety. You think you’ll be able to do a “AMOG destroyer” or a “tension loop” when you’re visibly nervous? Most of the time I’ve seen students try this stuff, they’re too nervous to even remember what they were trying to do.

As far as I know, there is no 100% effective way of masking social anxiety. The solution is to slowly increase the amount of social pressure you are able to handle over a period of months and months. For example, my “How to Beat Approach Anxiety” CDs slowly expose the student to more and more social pressure using a controlled and quantifiable method.

The Seduction Consumer

After reading a few dozen reviews of seduction products on reputable forums such as FastSeduction.com and TheAttractionForums.com, I’ve noticed that there is quite a shift in expectations and behavior that happens when students become consumers.

Let’s take a moment to consider the differences between a student and a consumer.

A student is one who wants to gain knowledge, build skills, and change his life for the better. Think of a martial arts student who travels to China to learn karate in it’s purest form from the descendants of it’s creators, or a Russian gymnast who studies under the best coaches to become an Olympic gymnast. Now that’s a serious student.

Now let’s think about the quintessential consumer.

Picture an American woman from the suburbs shopping for her family at Walmart. Let’s say she’s using coupons. She wants to get as much as she can for as cheap as she can, and she wants it to be as convenient as possible. By “convenient” I mean she wants to put in the smallest amount of effort possible to obtain the products she needs.

Karate student vs. Mom at Walmart. Picture it.

Everyone has the potential to behave as a student or as a consumer, it’s just a matter of what buttons have been pushed.

Think for a moment. Did someone push your student button, or did they push your consumer button?

Are you trying to reach an elite level of skill and knowledge? Or are you trying to get as much as you can for as cheap as you can, and with the smallest amount of effort possible.

Here’s what I saw in the reviews I read. Feel free to visit the forums yourself, the reviews are pouring in every day.

1. Reviewers are fixated on the quantity of information contained in the product. There are frequent mentions of how many pages an eBook contains, how small the type is, even how big the margins are.

2. Reviewers are focused on the “newness” of the information, and will call out any product that is a “rehash.”

This is understandable in our neophile, capitalist culture. We’re fed a constant stream of new movies, music, TV shows, and all sorts of live entertainment. As consumers of entertainment, we’ve been force-fed this idea that new=good, and old=bad.

What the reviewers have missed, is that seduction products are not entertainment, they are self help. When it comes to self help, there’s only one question that matters:

“How much did this product improve my life?”

What if a 5 page PDF could change your life more than 20 DVDs? Which would you choose if they were both the same price? Would the consumer inside you win? Or would the student inside you win?

The marketers know where the money is, and the seduction industry has responded to the consumer audience by producing a series of “high quantity” products. 20+ DVD sets have been released, with some of the DVDs containing only 20 minutes of information.

Of course they received bad reviews by astute consumers on the forums. “Only 20 minutes! And it was a rehash!”

The industry has also served up “new” products at an alarming fast rate. At this point, the gurus are basically sitting around interviewing each other over and over, all in the name of launching new products and creating new information.

Again I have to ask, what if a 5 page PDF could change your life more than a 20 DVD set, but the PDF was old and the DVD set was new. Would you still use the information in the PDF? Which would you choose?

Another question. What if there was one single book that would make you a master of seduction, but you had to work with it for 2 years. Would you keep working with that material for 2 years? Or would you start reading other things because they were “new?”

Is the flood of new dating products serving you well? Or is it distracting you and causing you to lose focus? That’s something that I honestly don’t know the answer to, but I’d love to hear opinions from students of seduction, or should I call them consumers of seduction. I’m not here to give you all the answers, but I do want to raise some new questions.

Surveys, Data and the Shocking Proof

I’m a big fan of using an empirical process when teaching and evaluating the development of students. Picking up women is often referred to as an art form. I personally regard teaching as a science, not an art form. Students should have measurable, repeatable success and teachers should have quantifiable, repeatable procedures. Cold approach pickup is not easy to teach, and numbers are your friend when you are trying to teach a new guy what to do.

Self help is a shadowy industry often filled with fluffy or unmeasurable methodologies. The seduction field is particularly vulnerable to this, as guys who can’t get laid are easily lead into believing in chakras, hypno-patterns, affirmations, and all sorts of weird stuff.

I went digging around for some data on the learning process of pickup, but there was very little to be found. I decided to get the ball rolling myself. I chose a small question to investigate, and I’d like to share the results with you. The question relates to studying with eBooks, CDs, and DVDs:

Does studying lots of seduction materials correlate with increased success with women?

I think most people would assume that the more you study something, the better you will become at it. In 3 years as a coach, I have found that when it comes to seduction, this “study more=get better” idea is certainly not the case. It’s a bit tricker than that.

Let’s assume for a moment that the guys who study the most would be the guys who get laid the most. If this were the case, a chart of student success would look like this.

If this were the case, everyone who had a few thousand dollars to spend on seduction products would be swimming in pussy. It turns out that this is not the case at all.

I did a survey of 100 men from the 2 biggest seduction forums on the internet: fastseduction.com and theattractionforums.com, and here are the results.

There’s no recognizable trend of increased success for guys who studied more.

The purpose of this survey wasn’t to figure out everything about the entire process, but just to answer this one question:

Does studying lots of seduction materials always lead to increased success with women?

The answer is no it doesn’t, according to this survey. There is no significant correlation.

However, many questions still remain unanswered due to the small scope of this survey.

There are other factors not addressed in the survey that come into play, such as:

-Level of pre-existing natural game

-Psychological makeup



-Geographical location

-Time spent in the seduction community

-In what order were the materials studied?

-What was the quality of the materials studied?

-Field time


-When did they read the information? (Information timing)

-What did they do to apply the information?

-How quickly did they take in the information?

From a teaching standpoint, some of these extraneous variables cannot be controlled. However, a few of them can. A coach who is continuously involved with a student over a period of time can manage the field time, information timing, and information application of the student.

At the present time, there is little effort being made in the seduction community to monitor these variables, with the exception of field time. Every guru and forum moderator has been telling people to “get into the field” for years and it’s some of the best advice out there.

Since I’ve been on the forums, I’ve sensed a bit of frustration from the moderators. There’s quite a few men out there who are not heeding their advice to “get in the field.” It’s hard to say exactly why their good advice is being ignored.

My opinion is that there is a lack of structure, and structure is necessary for motivation. Students need to be told when, where, and how much to go into the field. Without that, it’s very easy for them to sit home and say “I’ll do it tomorrow.” Some students need specific instructions, and “get into the field” is not specific enough to motivate them.

I tell the students in my 30/30 Club to follow very specific guidelines when it comes to field time.

I tell them to follow what I call “The Golden Rule of Learning.” For every 1 hour you spend studying, you should be spending 2 hours utilizing the information by going into the field. This is the Golden Rule.

Then, whenever you post on my 30/30 forum, you should include your study time to field time ratio for the week in your signature, like this.


-Brad P.


this week: 5 hours in field:2 hours of study


This encourages accountability on forums.

There is also a lack of positive or negative reinforcement about going into the field. Guys who don’t go into the field are welcome to hypothesize and do guess works on seduction forums. The problem with this sort of guess work is that it is usually a mixture of poorly timed information, hero worship, and validation seeking.

Some guys just post the most advanced idea they can think of. They’re trying to impress the other readers.

Others recite the words of the gurus without ever having applied them.

The end result is a polluted intellectual atmosphere. New students must contend not only with the fear and emotional neediness that comes along with failing with women, but they must also navigate a complex maze of info-marketing, hundreds of products, and suspect advice from keyboard jockeys.

The Power of Information Timing

One idea I always explain to my students at workshops is the idea of ‘Information Timing.” Here’s how it works.

Let’s pretend for a moment that the body of literature on dating and seduction is like a 36 Volume Encyclopedia Britannica. Remember when you were a kid in school and they’d take you to the library and there would be these massive volumes in the reference section? Thousands and thousands of pages on information on every topic imaginable, remember that? The amount of dating info out there is at least as big as The Encyclopedia Britannica, probably larger.

Some students try to read all 36 volumes and then go apply it. Some coaches try to teach all 36 volumes, but no one actually needs all 36 volumes to succeed.

What I try to do is watch a student, listen to him, and then go through my own 36 volumes in my head. My 36 volumes of info come from my field time, 4 years of teaching, and all of the thing I’ve learned from naturals and legitimate gurus.

If you teach all the time, you can go through the whole encyclopedia in just a few seconds. I narrow it all down to the one volume that would be the most helpful to the student. Then I narrow it down to the one page that would resonate the most for him, given his skill level, his experience level, and what ideas he finds exciting and motivating. Then I narrow it down to one single paragraph that will help him the most. That’s what I tell him. Maybe 3 or 4 sentences. That’s it. Then I let him apply that, and when he’s ready for more, I give him a few more well chosen sentences.

Sure, I could tell him more, but if it’s too advanced for him, it won’t make sense and he’ll forget it. That would be poorly timed information.

If it’s too rudimentary for him, he won’t be excited about what he learned. He’ll nod and say to himself “Yeah I already knew that.” Then he’ll forget all about it.

The student must be able to take action in order to improve. Every piece of information must be actionable. In order for something to be actionable, it must be exciting, motivating, and properly timed.

If you go searching around on Google, start reading some forums, and then start buying the products that have the most compelling marketing, chances are that the information timing will be completely haphazard. Students are urged to buy the newest products by slick sales lingo and ingenious launch campaigns. The idea that most students haven’t even begun to apply what they read last week doesn’t seem to have occurred to anyone. In this way, the seduction community doesn’t always serve the interests of it’s students, sometimes it only serves the financial interests of the teachers and their marketers.

As for the forums, they are a mixed bag as well. On the positive side, they offer new guys a chance to get personal feedback from more experienced seducers. The big drawback is that the advice they receive is sometimes woefully inappropriate to their skill level. Some intermediate seducers who give advice have field experience. Other don’t. Some are just parroting back the words of the gurus. Others just post the most advanced advice they can think of, hoping that others will recognize them and give them a good user-rating. The newbies are left to sort out a series of conflicting opinions from dubious sources. It’s better than nothing, but it’s a slow way to learn. Throw in a few flame wars and some spam, and you have a recipe for confusion.

The only sure bet for new guys is to take a workshop from a reputable company. For those who can’t afford it or don’t live in one the top 10 richest cities in the world, this is not easily accomplished. For these guys, products, forums, and field experience are the only options.

Let’s have a look at one more survey so you can really see what I’m talking about. The following is a survey taken from the seduction community’s largest illegal file-pirating website. I’m not going to name names here, but if you’re reading this report, chances are that you know the website I’m talking about.

There’s over 900 responses on this survey. Keep in mind this is an illegal file swapping site. The members of this site risk criminal prosecution and jail time to have access to literally every seduction product on the market. These guys have 500 GB hard drives filled with every seminar, DVD, eBook, and ZIP archive you can think of. They are extremely well informed.

Everyone see what’s going on here? About 73% of these guys have slept with 10 women or less. The largest category is…you guessed it…virgins. These are the guys who have every seduction product on the market, and they are not getting much action.

These are the guys who have read everything. The guys who study the most are the guys who get laid the least. This challenges the commonly held assumption that “the more you study, the better you get.” I don’t know these guys personally, but my bet would be that they’re poor results stem from:

1. Information overload

2. Poor information timing

3. Lack of field experience

That’s what you get when you try to read everything at once- poor results. A better way to get good is to work within a system where you have proper information timing and a good field to study time ratio.

Information Overload

One of the hardest problems to fix in a live workshop is “Information Overload.” Some students have read so much information from so many different sources, that they can barely formulate complete sentences when there’s an actual woman in front of them.

Have you ever thought about the idea of “information overload?” Let’s take a minute to think about what it means.

Imagine you had a rolodex, and it had 50 phone numbers in it. If you needed a phone number, you’d be able to find it pretty quickly.

Now think about this: What if the rolodex was the size of a refrigerator, and it was full? It would take you all day to find one phone number. That’s what happens to guys who have studied too much material without applying any of it. When they’re talking to a woman, they’re thinking so hard about so many different ideas, that they just come off as weird.

Is it possible to use lots and lots of information when meeting women? Yes, the best seducers in the world use large amounts of information. But they have a faster search mechanism. For them it’s not like a rolodex, it’s more like an Oracle database on a high powered computer.

The difference is that they have naturalized the information through a larger number of information encounters, most of which come from field experience.

Here’s how information encounters (or IEs) work:

The first one is usually that “a ha!” moment that a lot of people hope for when they sign up for seminars. It’s a really fun thing. The a-ha moment is tremendously important because it opens the door to naturalizing the information. However, the a-ha moment isn’t the end of the road, it’s actually just the beginning.

The first time you hear an idea, you may agree with it, you may even try to act on it, but it does not truly become a part of you until you’ve heard that idea many more times and acted on it many more times. Each time you hear or act on an idea, you learn it on a deeper and deeper level.

So here’s a typical pattern of IEs.

During IE #1, you say to yourself “A Ha! Yes, that makes sense.”

During IE #2, you might evaluate the source and say to yourself “Wow, that Brad P. is a pretty smart guy.”

During IE #3, you might think back to a time when something similar happened to you and say to yourself “ohhh, that’s why that girl called me back, but the other girl wouldn’t.”

During IE #4, you might take the information and use it in a real interaction.

During IE #5, you look back on that interaction and process it using the original idea as the framework.

During IE #6, you use it again, and this time you get a different result than you expected.

During IE #7, you analyze the result.

During IE #8, you are in the field and you observe the idea happening to other people.

During IE #9, you apply the idea without having to think too hard.

During IEs 10-20, you are having to think less and less to put the idea into practice.

There comes a time when you have encountered an idea so many times that you automatically act on it. You don’t even have to think about it anymore. This is the point where you have “naturalized” the information. You have made it a permanent part of yourself.

When you have naturalized a large number of powerful ideas, and you don’t have to work very hard to apply them, you develop that high-powered database with the super fast search mechanism. That’s when you start getting really good. But if your IEs are of low quality, you’ll never get there. Some guys get all their IEs through reading, fantasy, and hero worship. That’s when the ideas start degrading more and more.

Information Distortion and Spoilage

The problem with studying too much without using the information in field is that it becomes more and more distorted with every information encounter.

When you encounter an idea on a DVD or in a book, you will often envision yourself in a hypothetical situation similar to the one being described. Then your emotions, hopes, dreams, and fears will fill in the blanks that were not described by the author. This little daydream is a great way to get started on naturalizing an idea, but it usually bears little resemblance to the way things would play out in reality.

In a perfect world, your second IE would be a real life situation, and you would have a chance to form a more realistic interpretation of the idea without your emotions filling in the blanks so much.

But if you don’t have a real world experience with the idea within the first 5-10 IEs, your unrealistic daydream about the idea starts to crystallize into something that won’t work out that well in real life. Eventually, the information has become so distorted that it actually moves you backwards. That’s right, it is possible to move backwards in this.

Every single day, every single moment, you are either moving backwards or moving forwards.

The ideas you study are like rotting milk in the fridge. If you don’t get them out to the dinner table within a week or two, they start to spoil. Then they start to stink up everything in your whole fridge. That’s when you really start moving backwards.

So there you have it. There’s the overload problem and the distortion problem. When they start interacting you have a recipe for a keyboard jockey.

The Point of No Return

When you study lots of seduction info, but seldom use it in field, you form a “glut” of unusable information.

Some of it is unusable because there’s simply too much. Your rolodex is too full and you can’t access things quickly enough. The rest of the glut is misinterpreted information. You have visualized it too many times. You have crystallized an unrealistic picture and it will be almost impossible to change it now.

There comes a time when the glut has become so large and distorted, that it’s almost impossible to use anything you’ve read. You’d be better off starting over than trying to sort out that mess. I call this “The Point of No Return.”

Lots of students have passed the point of no return by the time they come to me. That’s one of the drawbacks of accidentally discovering a worldwide self-help movement, and then ending up being buried 4 layers down in it. Sometimes the guys you get are the ones who have tried everything and nothing has worked. It’s a challenge I welcome.

One of the goals of my 30/30 Club is to “rebuild” the guys who have passed the point of no return. Many of them have learned ways of interacting with women that allow them to “open and attract” every time, but this never gets them laid. If you have that problem, it might be time to get yourself rebuilt with methods that actually get you laid.

You Might Be A Keyboard Jockey If….

You’ve read more than 10 eBooks and fucked less than 10 girls.

You’re “a really well known guy” on your lair forum.

You’ve typed the words “I have so much respect for (insert guru name)” into a forum reply.

You’re “trying to study up for a few months before you start approaching.”

You have a membership to a file sharing site.

You’re getting more than 5 email newsletters a day in your inbox.

You have over 100 megs of seduction info on your hard drive.

You have more than 2 forums in your bookmarks.

You’re getting an RSS feed from more than 3 community blogs.

You posted a reply to a list of PUA rankings.

You’ve gotten really worked up while debating “canned game vs. natural game.”

If you’re not a KJ, I’m sure you know people that are. They read everything and apply nothing, while building up a huge network of virtual friends. And what have they gained? They’ve wasted thousands of hours studying and gotten no results. It’s a raw deal. Do not let this happen to you.


Open Letter to a Keyboard Jockey

Dear KJ,

It’s time I give you some tough love. You came into this as a nerd who couldn’t get women. Now you’re a nerd who still can’t get women, but you’re really well educated about social dynamics. Well-educated nerd. Not quite what you had in mind. If that’s the path you’re on, I hope this report scares the living shit out of you. Stop for a minute and think about all your friends. Think of a good friend that you trust. Go to his house. Give your friend your laptop charger. Tell him not to give it back until you’ve gotten laid.

Yours truly,

Brad P.


Rules to Live By

Apply these rules now, and you’ll have a better chance of improving without wasting your life away.

1. Stick to the 1:2 ratio. That’s the Golden Rule of Learning. For every one hour you spend studying, spend 2 hours in the field.

2. Try to only take in high quality information. That means you should be reading reviews and asking the reviewers “How much did this information change your life?”

3. Remember, more info doesn’t mean more results. You have to go apply it. If you don’t, there’s a chance you might move backwards.

At the Crossroads

We’re at a crossroads in the development of our movement and our industry. We’re attracting lots of new students, but we’re also attracting under-qualified coaches and profiteers. If we continue cranking out information products without teaching people how to use them, we will create an army of keyboard jockeys who don’t get results.

Then there will be no long term viability to anything that’s going on right now. It’s up to the leaders of the community to teach the students how to learn more efficiently. I’ll be emailing this report to all the gurus and coaches who I know personally in hopes that reading this might improve their teaching even by 1%.

It’s also up to the students. Demand results, not entertainment. Keep posting reviews of what’s working and what’s not. Apply some discipline to your learning process. If you can’t do this yourself, get some help from me and my 30/30 coaches. All of the learning principles described here are built into my 30/30 Club, where you will meet 30 new women every 30 days.

Thanks for reading!

-Brad P.


Get Your Free Guide Here!


24 Responses to ““The Forbidden Truth” by Brad P.”
  1. Chris says:

    Holy crap, something genuinely useful on Thundercat’s blog…

  2. Soundselector says:

    Awsome, I remember when Brad posted something about of an even four to one ratio. Guys take the “extra time” reading material and use it on something else a new hobby guitar, books, the Great Courses series, letting you learn about topics you didn’t take in college, join a fantasy sports league, surf, cook, comedy class, join a sketch writing team, start a blog, campain for a political candicate, play basketball, go to a dance school, yoga, join your local softball team. ( a great way to meet shady individuals) Its okay to go over board on the seduction stuff but dont forget yo return to your real life. Also so much free stuff out there. I don’t any workshops untill you have been in field can get convos rolling into the 5 minute range consistently and have detailed SPs o iron out. Also plenty of FREE shit to check out Brad’s post archive is very very good and also the Joseph Went South radio show. Stick to a few things at a time and get in field for god sake.

  3. Chancellor says:

    Great post Brad.

    As a professional music teacher I’ve never understood the “release a CD/DVD/book” or “bootcamp” paradigms of teaching. The only way I’ve gotten results with students is: weekly lessons, small chunking 1-3 new things to work on each week while continually correcting technique, offering suggestions, and figuring out a way to get information to “click” and then have it practiced over and over again until it can be performed effortlessly and perfectly ever time.

    I noticed the same thing as the Internet became a dominant source of information for music students: instead of mastering the fundamentals, they are trying to start with intermediate concepts or trying to figure out and understand advanced concepts without the mastery or experience to really get it.

  4. C says:

    I think a lot of guys stay home and read instead of getting out in the field because they are introverts – atmospheres like clubs, bars and malls are incredibly draining for them.

  5. This is excellent. I’m forwarding this to my coaching staff right now -I know we can appreciate this, as our model of coaching is very similar to yours. Well done Brad.


  6. ef says:

    How much did this information change your life, thundercat?

  7. jett says:

    wow this is really great material.
    thanks for the insight.
    i am interested in becoming a coach do you have any advice?

  8. M says:

    Brad – I never learned conversational repertoire from Glenn at the workshop. Also still don’t really know how to transition after the opening unless the girl gives me something other than “its not me”.

    Any help other than join 30/30??

  9. Barn says:

    I don’t think Brad’s material really teaches you how to transition. Its not on his cd’s or ebooks. Either you open and the set leads the way or you get blown out. I took the bootcamp but got private lessons elsewhere to help elevate my game. If you need help they just tell you to join 30/30 after you already paid a bunch for a bootcamp that only teaches you up to a certain level and once the camp is over, you’re on your own unless you continue to pay.

  10. Questioning Brad P says:

    Horse girl is not working well. I open and they say its not me and bounce. LOL. Unless Brad can help with this, its prob not worth taking his workshop! Brad will make an excuse that its my style or body language but its not cause I got that fixed at a workshop of Glenn’s.


  11. BradP says:

    Hey it’s Brad P. Some interesting questions here. Sry I hadn’t checked back in a while, there used to be a nonstop mess of trolling going on here on this blog, but it looks like things have changed.

    I’m glad a lot of people are getting something out of this post.

    OK let’s talk about transitioning. The process I teach at workshops is open->attract->do logistics screening->then calibrate. Not every interaction is going to do the same, so you must calibrate, not just try to put the same kind of game on every single girl you meet. A lot of community guys come into my ws with the idea that every pickup is supposed to go according to the same process. This conclusion is not supported by my field experience or by what I’ve seen amongst top naturals. (see “The Adventures of Brad P.” free version on my site).

    Here’s what I suggest as far as transitioning off an opener. You build a repertoire of material. Whatever material you find enjoyable. Then if she’s giving you nothing off the opener, you plow right into your next piece of material. There is no fancy transition, you’re not trying to be clever about it, you just plow right into the next thing you feel like doing.

    Here’s why-
    If you are thinking really hard about how to transition, you get this 2 second period of incongruence, which makes you look weird, try hard, and approval seeking.
    Just plowing into the next thing accomplishes a few things. You take the lead. The girl is trying to catch up to you mentally, which allows you to be dominant. It also allows you to amuse yourself, by choosing material you find enjoyable, rather than trying to “not screw it up” by sticking to some exact surgical process.

    After 3 years of workshops, thats what I find most effective. Try it out. It’ll help you stop thinking so hard, which tends to be a huge problem for beginners. If you disagree and would like to learn transitioning, I’d suggest reading Magic Bullets, which has a whole chapter on it. I hope you come up with something that works for you, even if you’re not learning it from me.

    Conversational repertoire- every workshop is different, and we calibrate what’s taught to the needs of the students. My feeling on workshops is that for most students, it’s possible to fix 3 or 4 things really well in a weekend. If I can fix 3, I’m happy. If I can fix 4 or 5, I’m ecstatic. More than that is really beyond the growth capacity of most students in a single weekend. So if Glenn didn’t cover repertoire, he probably felt that there were other things that would be more important for you. You can always buy the routines manual and have 500 routines at your finger tips, or join 3030 and we cover pro scripts, self scripts, and natural flow in month 5. Those are the 3 components of repertoire.

    In any event, if you feel you didn’t get value from Glenn’s workshop you can call in and get a refund. I have a no questions asked money back guarantee.

    As you can tell from my materials, I don’t claim to teach transitioning, so if you come looking for that, I’m probably just going to teach you how to plow forward.

    Horse girl not working- how many times have you done it? I can’t tell what the problem is via a blog post. If it’s not working for you, try something else. I have tons of openers in my Instant Attraction book. I’m sure there’s something in there that would work for you. Horse girl is not for everyone, but it works great for about 80% of the people who try it, as long as they practice it 5-10 times and give it a chance.

    Brad P

  12. Kidd says:

    I don’t know what trolling is..but! This blog has done wonders for me. After I read it and heard about Brad’s logic on 2 hours in the field for every 1 hour of study it started to make sense. I realized in the field I had too much information and not enough experience!

    I’ve taken Glenn’s workshop and agree with Brad. Not everyone is ready for certain information so perhaps that’s why you weren’t taught it. It makes sense that the workshop can fix 3 or 4 things. For my workshop I fixed my a little bit of body language, pace of voice, kino and did some crazy social freedom stuff. I don’t really know how many things there are to fix but the workshop did wonders so far. I’m actually wondering if I should take another workshop with Glenn to improve my game some more…Brad, any thoughts? Do ppl take the course more than once?

    Alright, I’ll stay focused. Brad – your original post and the one right above this is awesome. You’re one of the best guys out there that haven’t gotten a big head from the rankings.

    If anyone else is questioning the workshop – just check out theattractionforums.com and read the reviews! No one ever complains!

  13. BradFan says:

    Brad your post is awesome. It makes sense that you would plow through instead of transitioning. Its blow me or blow me out right!? I really like how you reframed it to do whatever you want to do and lead the conversation.

    ps you and cajun should go heads up on the keys to the vip

  14. Simon Says says:

    I like this post. I feel like a lot of other community guru’s never tell you this. They just sell products and hope you keep reading them like the next best thing.

    Thundercat! You should move Brad up in the PUA rankings this year? He deserves it..esp after this post! Not many gurus still respond to things when they move into the rankings but seems like it hasn’t gotten to Brad’s head (yet!).

  15. ijjjji says:

    Brad is the man

  16. Alex says:

    Use Swinggcat’s material it’s the best!

  17. ijjjji says:

    sorry bro but i dont know who swingcat is because brad is the only guy i need in my life. stick to one guru, stay off the boards, you will succeed…so i hear!

    there’s a waitlist on 3030!! wtf. brad – can you put up some workshops on your website for us buddy??

    can you also make a nyc pick up mansion with glenn?

  18. peaceout says:

    Bradp is a fucking phony. He solicits people and asks them to comment on his fucking gayass article. Then when they do comment on it, he removes it. Fucking. Phony. Just another dollar hungry “guru” trying to cash in on how naive these guys are.

  19. Charm says:

    This is the best seduction article I’ve ever read.

    And I’ve been “on the road” for some years already.

    Got lost with information onverload, and now it’s time to take the trash out of my mind.

    Thanks a lot, Brad.

  20. D says:

    Hmmm, i think this is what’s known as an eye opener. only been around the community for 3 months but it’s easy to get sucked into studing theory because no one is here to reject you. Thank you for bringing me back.

  21. tbz says:

    @There’s over 900 responses on this survey. Keep in mind this is an illegal file swapping site. The members of this site risk criminal prosecution and jail time to have access to literally every seduction product on the market. These guys have 500 GB hard drives filled with every seminar, DVD, eBook, and ZIP archive you can think of. They are extremely well informed.

    You got everything wrong.All you want is money.

    1)First i am sure that almost every seduction “guru” is on this site … stealing others people material.

    2) As you have access to this site – you should be afraid too of criminal prosecution.

    3) It is private site with limited number of members and shares are forbided outside this site. These people wouldn’t buy these product anyway. So there is virtually no reason for authors complaining.

    4) Also, from survey you can see these “gurus” product are worthless as well as yours. They can help to limited number of people – but they would be successful even without these crappy products.

    5)Everybody making sales letters longer than product and do not made promises
    said in sales letter should be prosecuted.

    6)Because they may refund money – but not the time people loose. Time isn’t free

    7) My friends from this site (i do not use this site of course) say that your products for example one about fashion is worthless because your fashion is suck.

    8) Also almost every other product is how to say nothing on 4 dvds – 4 cds.

    9) How did you become successful. I think you didn’t … and i am sure you can get laid (unless you paid). So you – as well as every guru can atleast make some money so you can paid escort and make social prof for buyers of your worthless books/cds/dvds.

  22. Will says:


    This is my personal affirmation list. It’s mostly to help me be successful with women but also has a lot to do with having self-esteem, confidence and a healthy psychological state of being. Feel free to use it and share it with others. It took me a long time to build this list and I have found it extremely helpful.


    Beliefs of Naturals – My Reality

    Read 3 times before bed and in the morning(do it for a for month)
    Record in the second person. Play recording on a loop continuously at a low volume(whisper).
    Play recording during the day and at night while sleeping.

    1. Being with me is the best possible choice for any woman.

    2. Women love men and especially love me.

    3. I love life!

    4. I am God. I am Perfect. This is my universe!

    5. I am fearless, courageous and bold!!!

    6. I read incredibly fast!

    7. Women love sex and want sex from me.

    8. My intelligence, creativity and potential is infinite!

    9. Women love to be hit on even if they pretend otherwise.

    10. I am completely focused, organised and use my time with the utmost efficiency.

    11. Women are nurtures and pleaser’s who want to nurture and please me.

    12. I am a self-assured, confident, sexual and dominant male.

    13. Everyday in every way I am better and better!!!

    14. I have complete control over my life, mind and psychological state of being.

    15. I am the greatest genius this world has ever seen.

    16. I heal instantly!

    17. I am successful, confident and achieve my goals. I exude confidence, sex, power and self-esteem.

    18. I can be, do and have anything I want to in this world, my possibilities are endless!!!

    19. I love myself! I am complete, fulfilled and completely happy!!!

    20. I am growing more beautiful and luminous day by day.

    21. People love me! I make friends easily.

    23. I read and meditate every day. I access all the knowledge in the universe.

    25. I am completely irresistible to women!

    26. Regardless of how she is reacting to me she is getting aroused.

    27. I see the underlying truth in all things.

    28. I am an adventurer! I travel the world!

    29. Regardless of how she is reacting to me I am the prize she is trying to win over!

    30. I am a multi-millionaire and master seducer!

    31. I love what I do and am richly rewarded, creatively and financially.

    32. I have a perfect photographic memory! I recall everything easily.

    33. Since she wants to sleep with me, the power is in my court to decide whether she lives up to my standards and expectations. I get to decide if we get to sleep together.

    34. I create my own reality!

    35. Today I love my body fully, deeply and joyfully.

    37. Today I open my mind to the endless opportunities surrounding me.

    38. Prosperity surrounds me, prosperity fills me, prosperity flows to me and through me.

    39. I have sex with super hot, confident, loving, caring and intelligent women with genius IQ’s all the time!

    40. I think positively every day, all the time.

    41. I attract amazing people.

    42. My imagination and power affirmations are now creating the reality I desire.

    43. My body is now trained to burn fat and build muscle day by day.

    44. I have a six pack of abdominal muscles.

    45. Let these commands be fulfilled!!!

    46. I am filled with the light of love, peace, happiness, power, success and joy every day, all the time.

    47. I am aggressive, direct and powerful with the women I desire. I radiate a confidence, self-control and charm that women find irresistibly attractive.

    48. My mind is focused on what I desire and I go for it congruently and powerfully.

    49. I take immediate advantage of my opportunities with women. I swiftly establish incredible rapport, gather the information I need, then close with aggression, power and finesse.

    50. I radiate a natural, easy self-acceptance that women find irresistibly attractive.

    51. I am mastering the responses, attitudes, behaviours, insights and timing that bring me irresistible power with the women I desire.

    52. I am now approaching women that I am attracted to.

    53. I am able to pick up and attract any women I desire.

    54. I am a strong, powerful, aggressive, dominant, alpha male, leader and conqueror!!!

    55. I am charming, interesting and fascinating!!!

    56. I have a perfectly sculptured muscle ripped body.

    57. I am super hot and sexy, all women want me!

    58. Abundance is my natural state of being!

    59. Money comes to me easily and continuously from multiple sources!

    61. My IQ and intelligence increases daily rapidly!!!

    62. I have clear beautiful skin!

    63. I have lucid dreams and recall all my dreams with complete clarity!

    65. All things are now working together for good in my life.

    66. I am now attuned to my higher purpose in life.

    67. I rule the world! I am brilliant and perfect in every possible way!

    68. I succeed in everything I do!

    69. I have sex with one thousand super hot women!

    70. I am now enjoying everything I do and feel happy just being alive.

    71. Sex with super hot women comes to me easily and effortlessly.

    72. The light within me creates miracles in my life here and now.

    73. All things are now working together for good in my life.

    74. I am now attuned to my higher purpose in life.

    75. I have the infinite creative power of God within me.

    76. My higher self is guiding me in everything that I do.

    77. God lives within me and manifests in the world through me.

    78. The light of God surrounds me, the love of God enfolds me, the power of God flows through me. Wherever I am, God is, and all is well!

    79. I ascend spiritually rapidly everyday all the time!

    80. I am a Natural, Ladies Man and Player!

    81. Everywhere I go women want to fuck me!

    82. I have sex with supermodels daily.

    83. Supermodels have an incredible desire to fuck me wherever I go!

    84. I attract whatever I desire.

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