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IAmMaximus, over at the mASF boards, has a really good post up about how he goes about getting women to have sex with him the same night he meets them.

IAmMaximus writes:
After having tons of problems scoring club pulls over the first several years I was at this, I’ve actually managed to hook up with 5 over about the past 7 weeks (including 2 in one night). While I’m certainly no expert on them, here’s what I’ve learned that helps me score them:

1. Go out looking as good as you possibly can.

2. Be sociable/talk and flirt with everyone/play the numbers.

3. Be persistent, even if you’re blown out once or twice.

4. Have fun yourself and show her a good time

5. Flirt and then escalate nonverbally (EC, get close, caress hands–credit: 60)

6. Keep pulling her to go home with you. Don’t necessarily verbalize that you want to take her home for sex. Just focus on taking her home and tie it into whatever her state is. She wants to get something to eat? You’ll take her! She just wants to get out of there… no problem! Then, once you’ve got her away, the sex will “just happen.” Don’t be afraid to persist and keep asking.

7. When you’re taking her home, keep up the kino the whole way. Keep caressing hands. Put your hand on her thigh and finger her if she’s in your car or sitting next to you on the subway, etc.

8. Get her home and just keep kissing and making out (pay attention to kissing her neck!) while working on getting a finger into her pussy. If she’ll let you put a finger there, more will follow.

That’s it. Nothing complex about it. I don’t worry about DHV, negging, canned material, special openers, etc. I just open, have fun with her, escalate, and pull and pull until I take her home.

Now, I’m NOT a particularly attractive man, so don’t go bullshitting that this only works for me because I must be good looking. Truth be told, I’m fat, sort of hairy, and I have impressive manboobs. No girl with working eyes would ever drool over seeing me shirtless, yet several have been gladly fucking me in recent weeks. Physically, I’m maybe a 6. Dressed in my “field clothes,” I might become a 7.5 or an 8. I’ve been fucking girls who are 7s-8.5s by my scale. If I can do it, you can do it!

Oh… and one more thing… the most crucial…

IF YOU WANT A QUICK LAY, DO NOT SET OFF THE DAMNED BOYFRIEND SCREENING PROCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish I’d known this years ago. I used to spend so much time trying to show a girl what a great, awesome, high value, caring guy I was. All that does is get her screening you as a potential boyfriend. THIS DRAMATICALLY COMPLICATES THE HOOKUP PROCESS AND WILL PROBABLY KEEP YOU FROM GETTING LAID!

Girls are the same as men in that they enjoy sex for sex’s sake. Maybe she just broke up with a longtime bf and wants to make sure she’s still attractive to other guys. Maybe she’s just horny and wants a quick fuck to soothe her aching vagina. Whatever.

I’ve noticed that the women I’ve been pulling for SNLs could give a fuck about me, my life, or my dreams for the future. They… just… don’t… care. If she’s going to fuck a guy within a couple hours of meeting him, she doesn’t want to worry about possible emotional entanglements.

Bringing those things into the situation just suggests that you’re going to be hounding her for a commitment. That’s going to cause her to view you in a completely different light. Does she like your personality enough to date you? Do you have enough common interests to make it work? What about your career, or your family, or your philosophies on life, etc.? What if she just plain does not want a boyfriend and is going through a whorish phase?

For a quick SNL, this is much simpler: Is she horny? Are you presenting yourself as a walking sex toy for the evening? OK, then! That’s all she needs to know.

If she does start asking the questions about your life, just answer truthfully and move on. Instead of dwelling on those mundane things, focus on having fun in the moment and on setting up opportunities to kino and either get rejected (and save yourself time) or hook up and get laid.

I want to make it clear that I’m not saying to be rude or run some cutesy pattern to disqualify yourself as bf material if she starts asking these things–IME, that’s suicide.

I’m just saying to be pleasant, be sincere, enjoy yourself, express your interest in her sexually, and create nonverbal opportunities to escalate that don’t feel forced. Hold the seductive EC. Get close and give yourself opportunities for kino. Caress her hand (60 is a GENIUS for pointing these simple tactics out).

There’s a time and place for relationships and boyfriend screening, of course. Personally, I value a good relationship far above any quick bar fling. But sometimes you just wanna get laid with some hot little girl at the club. This has been working for me to achieve that. I think it can help other guys, too.

Another thing to remember: you’re much, much, much more likely to be able to turn a SNL into a relationship after you’ve fucked a girl than to pass the annoying boyfriend screening process and get a lay of any kind, even after 2-3 days. The criteria for a no-strings fuck are just that much lower.

Bravo to fat-hairy-manboob PUAs who are taggin-n-baggin dem ladies!  A lot of IAmMaximus’s stuff isn’t complicated, its mostly an attitude based natural game style with a healthy dose of logistical mastery and physical escalation.  At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is if you’re getting what you want, right?  Well, it seems like IAmMaximus is getting plenty, so why can’t you? 

Fuck Challenges

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/17/03

Okay, so my little tirade on “drama” lead to a discussion about how Men need challenges like Women need drama. Personally, I found this notion quite stupid. It sounds like something only someone with no understanding of actual people would say. Obviously, I’m not much of an authority either, but in my personal experiences, men don’t need challenge to be happy like women need drama to be happy. To men, challenge is a sporting event. Its a puzzle, its a game, its a distraction. To women, drama is an ingrained part of life (obviously, I speak in generalizations. Not ALL women crave drama 24/7. But they do crave differing amounts).

So my reply to such a statement was thus:

Men don’t crave challenges. They crave pussy.  It just
so happens getting pussy is usually a challenge.  In
fact, its TOO much of a challenge for most men.
That’s why we’re here.

So fuck challenges.  I want results.

Thundercat

Now, of course, my unique style of “in your face” reality didn’t sit well with a few of the armchair seducers out there. I get lame reframes in reply saying shit like “Oh you just wanna get your dick wet” and “your lack of honest introspection doesn’t help anyone” and other lame crap. In fact, I had someone suggest that I carry around a rubber latex “pussy in a bottle.” Ah, the SS List! You have to love the advice!

Anyway, I hold fast to my point — fuck challenges. Now, its true, it may sound like a bitter decry from someone who likes to whine and complain about the difficulty of getting laid. But allow me to clarify. I do not like challenges when it comes to getting NECESSITIES of life. Challenges getting food, shelter, and water are not fun, nor are they conducive to a healthy lifestyle. Same thing with sex. I look at sex much like other vital functions such as breathing, urinating, and taking a shit. It is a necessary human action. Men need to ejaculate. It is a NECESSITY to do so. Failure to do so can lead to disease and other medical problems. In fact, when men do not ejaculate, the body finds a way to do so on its own, through the use of “wet dreams” and such.

So to me, challenges when it comes to sex are bullshit. The only thing that matters is results.

However, that said, challenges are good when it comes to things like RELATIONSHIPS. Challenge in relationships keep things fresh. Challenge in the workplace or with a video game or whatever can be good to. But those things are LUXURIES. They are ENTERTAINMENT. They are based on your own personal AMBITION. They are NOT based on necessity.

The fact of the matter is that there are so many guys out there NOT getting laid, that to tell them they need more challenge is like taking a hammer to their balls. Its a fucking ridiculous statement to make, and one that flies in the face of everything we’re studying.

In fact, the very notion of a challenge is counterproductive to seduction. A challenge is a frame where you are put in a situation where you must work for something that is “prized” to you, to use Swinggcat terminology. You add value to something that challenges you. So when you’re going after pussy, and its a challenge, that pussy’s value is raised in your eyes, and that’s where the problem lies. This value is reflected in a guy’s nervousness around women. In the stutters when he talks to chicks. In the sweaty palms when he sits next to a pretty girl. Challenge is what creates this state.

The best guys in terms of seduction are guys who do not care about the outcome. They could give two shits if they get laid or not. So when they do get laid, it seems easy because that was not their goal. In these cases, there is an absence of challenge. It does not exist for these men. Yet they still have as much fun and enjoy the same success as a guy who tackles a challenge and works his butt off for it. Now, which would you rather have?

Personally, I’m a lazy bastard. I prefer the absence of challenge short of the occasional game of Warcraft 3. And I definitely prefer its absence when it comes to poon.

That’s why they call me…

Thundercat

The Social Circle of Life

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03

Okay all you AFCs,

Here is a copy of my most recent article from Cliff’s List on Social Circles. Aside from the gay title, I think its pretty good. I’m still looking for my article on walk-ups. When I find that, I’ll post it.

Ho!

Thundercat

******************************************************

The Social Circle Of Life
How to Create the Best Possible Environment for Getting Laid
An Essay by Tundercat

I’ll be the first to admit it. I’m a nerd. I like to watch TV, go to movies, read books, play on my computer, and even partake in the occasional MMORPG. But when I’m not waxing philosophical about who could kick who’s ass — Kirk or Han Solo — I’m out trying to pick up chicks.

The thing is, what I do is cold approaches. Cold Approaches are basically approaches where you approach a woman you do not know in the hopes of attracting her so you can lay her. Without a doubt, this is probably the hardest form of Pick-Up there is. Why? Well, for one thing, the Fear Factor on cold approaches is the highest. They don’t know you, you don’t know them, and the risk of getting rejected is high. This is one of the reasons many people cannot do cold approaches. It is just much too scary.

But the reason I do them is because I currently have no better option available to me. If I don’t cold approach a girl, I won’t meet any. But a funny thing happens if you cold approach enough girls. You become friends with them!

As strange as it sounds, it is true. Though the average Pick-Up Artist (PUA) is not looking to make friends with the girls he approaches, odds are if they like you enough to fuck you, you will become friends. And even if they don’t want to fuck you, the least they are willing to become is a friend because they enjoy your company enough.

This is a funny little side effect to approaching, and because of it, my eyes were opened to something. It’s a dirty little secret, yet one that is so obvious I am surprised that I did not see it before. Are you ready? Okay, here it is:

Most people get laid from their social circles.

This is a fact, my friends. Sure, cold approaching can lead to the occasional one night stand (ONS), or even a same day lay that blossoms into a relationship. But very rarely does this happen. In fact, it happens so rarely, that I really rate my approach success based on the quality of numbers I get. I say quality because anyone can get a number, but a number from a girl who actually gives you her REAL number and will actually RETURN your phone call is so much more important than the quantity of numbers one receives.

But of all the guys I hang around with who get laid, the ones who do so with the most frequency are those with large social circles that include women in them. For instance, I have a friend who is going to college. He belongs to a number of groups: Martial Arts, Role Playing, Historical Reenactment, etc. And he gets laid. He gets laid a LOT. Probably more than most PUAs, and DEFINITELY more than me. The funny thing is, this guy DOES NOT APPROACH! In fact, he’s just as scared at approaching women as 90% of the guys reading mASF (moderate Alt Seduction Fast) are.

When I noticed this, I took a good look at the guys I know who are getting laid frequently, and sure enough, there was the proof. They were all getting laid from either girls they already knew, or met through friends, family, or some type of hobby.

This is an incredible revelation for me because social circles have always been the primary dipping source for men I knew were getting laid. Back in my AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) days, I’d only hang out with my guy friends, who weren’t getting laid either. I’d do solitary activities, play on the computer, and take part in social activities that were typically heavily attended by males. In short, my social circle did not include women, and because of that, I did not get laid.

As my awareness of women grows, along with my seduction skills, I am beginning to realize that being a PUA is not just about getting laid, but cultivating a social circle conducive to interacting with women ON A DAILY BASIS.

Most of the men I have met who are not getting laid or who are struggling to get laid are the ones whose social circles are almost completely empty of women, and the women who do encompass their social circles do not interact with them regularly.

A scary truth about guys not getting laid is that they are not comfortable talking to women. Sometimes, I STILL do not feel comfortable talking to women. And this can show in your sarging (interacting with women with the intent of laying them). I am willing to bet that most guys who cannot talk to or approach women do not have many female friends in their social circles. And if they do, the girls are friends they would like to fuck. They do not know what it is like to truly be friends with a girl they do not want to sex up, and because of that, there is always a feeling of comfortableness just below the surface of their interaction with girls, which the girls can pick up on and which completely throws off the guy’s state.

So the trick is to expand your social circle so it becomes something that is conducive to getting you laid.

The fact is, a female friend is the most powerful tool you have in your seduction arsenal, especially if she is attractive. Approaching other women with another woman who can social proof you and talk you up is probably the single most invaluable trick there is to approaching. When you have a female with you who is actively working to HELP you get laid, chances are it will happen, and more quickly than if you were acting on your own. Not only that, but the girl will also have friends that she will try to hook you up with if you demonstrate youв’re cool enough to be her friend. Through these girls, you will find your comfort around women increase, along with you success rate.

So how do you do this? Well, the first step is to befriend a girl. How is this done? Well, most AFCs (Average Frustrated Chumps) have had a lot of experience with the “Let’s Just Be Friends” area of life. But this is not the same thing. The fact is, with the “Let’s Just Be Friends” stigma, you are not really the girl’s friend because you still want to fuck her and she knows it.

The best way I know how to expand your social circle is to befriend other GUYS who are good with women. Not the type of guys who use women and throw them away, but the type of guys who are fun and always surrounded by girls. You befriend this guy, and he will introduce you to the girls who surround them. You can meet these guys anywhere, and it’s much easier to approach and make friends with men because there is no sexual tension there. You guys can connect on basic male subjects such as sports, women, business, etc. If nothing else, you may make a new valuable male friend out of the deal.

You can meet these guys anywhere you go, be it a club, bar, museum, concert, etc. It doesn’t matter. You will meet them doing stuff you like to do. Most guys will go for the girls right away, but if you befriend the guy who is IN with the girls, he will help you to get them.

Once in with the guys, its time to move onto the girls. Have him introduce you. Tell the girls how good of a friend he is. Show them that you’re a cool guy. Become their friends. The cooler the guy you befriend, the hotter the women he knows. The hotter the women he knows, the better quality of women they will introduce you to.

The next step will take a bit of willpower on your part, but you want to actually BEFRIEND the girl with the knowledge that you are not going to sleep with her. No matter how hot she is, you must take her out of the “I wanna FUCK!” category. This is crucial because if you go after her for the full monty (fuck), you could screw up the friendship.

But once she’s your friend, you can practice on her. Talk to her, call her up and bullshit, go out with her, let her feel safe and comfortable around you. Once she’s your buddy, get her to introduce you to her friends. Those are the ones you game on. This is because you’ll be at an advantage with them. Not only will you have a girl who is their friend hyping you up, but you’ll also be social proofed by the guy you befriended, who has also probably met the girl you’re being introduced to. Right there is instant social proof that you’re cool enough to hang with them. Then its time to game the girl, which should be easier than cold approaching because the meeting is inherent.

But when it comes to cold approaching, the women you befriend become even more powerful. This is where the real fun can happen. You can use your female friends to approach other groups of people. You can introduce her to the men while she does the same for you with the women. Not only that, its natural social proof when you’re with a girl, and you feel more comfortable talking to women, which makes you more attractive.

In fact, this is so powerful that I know PUAs who’s entire game is based on Social Circles. A woman you use to help you get laid is often referred to as a “Pivot” or a “Pawn.” They are used as pieces on a chessboard to break down defenses and open doorways to score checkmate.   One guy I know is SO effective with the girls in his social circle, that if there is a guy trying to get with a female friend of his, he will actually get the guy to pull him other chicks before he social proofs the guy with his friend. This is another great tactic, especially if you’re lazy about approaching. In this situation, not only are his pivots pulling other girls for him, but the guys after his pivots are as well. And in the end, all you’re getting is a bigger social circle which will make it easier to get laid.

It is very easy to befriend women, because when you make it clear you do not want to have sex with them, they can feel safe with you and allow you to “mess up” around them in practicing your PUA skills. Not only that, but being around women will teach you SO MUCH about pick-up, your game will rapidly increase.

In his book Real World Seduction, Swinggcat says “If you want to get good at picking-up women, surround yourself by five beautiful women who are good at getting guys.” This is important, because all the best PUAs just act like really hot chicks. They steal the chick frame that gets guys all into them and turn it around on the girls. The more you hang out with women, the more you will begin to incorporate this mindset into your seduction repertoire.

So friends, I recommend you go out there and start getting to know more girls in a non-sexual way. They will help you a great deal in adding some notches to your belt. I hope to expand my social circle massively in the coming future, so that I may also reap the benefits of having many lady friends.

Thundercat