Brad P Responds To This Year’s Top 10 Ranking

February 15, 2010 by  
Filed under Brad P

Hello All,

It’s Brad P., I’m writing here on Thundercat’s site today for a few reasons.

Firstly, I wish to congratulate all the guys who were named to the top 10 list. Although I don’t know all these guys and haven’t seen them in field, one thing I can tell you is that Thundercat puts a lot of time and effort into the research that goes into this list. He is in a unique position in some ways, because he has been around the community for so long, he has seen it all. He’s seen more fake gurus come and go than just about anyone anyone. He’s also been along side some of the greatest during their rise to the top, and he’s generally pretty fair to people.

Top Ten lists like this one, and a few of the others out there, are easy to dismiss as dick-crack. But if you’re new to this, and you don’t know where to turn, it can be quite helpful.

I’ve also taken a quick look at the responses, and I see there’s far less hate and controversy than usual. There’s a few people making well thought our comments, a few no-name gurus trying to attach their name to this thing, and that’s about it. Usually you have 150 people hurling personal insults at Thundercat, which really doesn’t help anyone get to the goal.

The goal is this:

The public needs to know who’s a good person to study with and who’s not. There’s no other purpose to a Top Ten List.

It’s very easy for someone to make themselves look cool on the internet. That doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll get anything out of their products or coaching.

Anyone can do some creative editing on some infield video (only showing the best moments), write up some fake testimonials, and pay a web designer and a marketing guy to get their name out there, and there are people are just doing that.

But really, it doesn’t mean much. What matters is the real experiences you give to students, and the real benefits of your program. That’s why I’ve decided to put out an unedited book of student experience, called Geeks Get Girls- Download it here-

In a world of illusions, what people want is something real, something they can believe in. People want to know who the best coaches are, who can really pickup women, and what kind of experience the students are getting.

Top ten lists are a part of that. There’s guys on the inside of this industry who know which coaches are good. The top ten lists are where they give out that knowledge.

Now let me respond to a few things in the article that were slightly off.

Pickup Mansion-
Yes, we started this program in 2009, and yes it’s been massively successful so far. Our new class of 2010 just moved in Feb. 1 and we are super excited about that. The only thing that was slightly off here is that we don’t have daily trainings with coaches. There’s 4-5 days of structured activities per month in the Pickup Mansion. I don’t want people to get the wrong idea about this or have this construed as false advertising.

There are a few reasons for this-

1- I’m trying to keep the price affordable. Daily coaching would cost so much that no one would be able to afford it.

2- I’m not a big believer in spoon-feeding students. The Pickup Mansion is a “self-help” program, not a “hold your hand every step of the way” program.  We want people to learn true self-motivation, and take ownership of their own development. Without that, the skills they learn will disappear as soon as they move out. I personally guided and supervised everyone’s development in 2009, but I didn’t spoon feed anyone. These guys got real results, and they can truly feel that they’ve earned what they got.

3- Residents of the Pickup Mansion are encouraged to live a balanced, normal life. That means they have jobs, they have friends and family, they have hobbies, and there’s more to life than cold approach pickup. I’m not trying to create weirdo pickup robots who do nothing but cold approach all day every day.

I tell everyone in Pickup Mansion that they should set aside time for dates, phone game, and identity development, and they should balance this with their cold-approach pickup. I also encourage them to do social circle game and online game.

Contrary to popular belief, the pussy you get from cold approaching isn’t necessarily better than pussy you get from anywhere else. In most cases, it’s about the same color, temperature, and consistency :)

Next issue:

Coaching guys from competing companies:

This is a sensitive issue.

Do I teach coaches at other competing companies? Yes. Actually Glenn and I have taught at least one coach or employee from every single workshop company in the USA.

The reason that this is a complex issue is because some of these coaches have requested that we keep it a secret.

No one who owns a seduction company wants the public to know that I’m training their coaches and employees. The idea is to tell the public that the company trains all their own coaches. I can understand this, so Glenn and I agree up front to not disclose this information.

In some cases, the coach was going behind the back of the company owner.

I’ll never tell who Glenn and I have trained, and it’s not something I’m going to talk about often. I’ve only mentioned it in public a few times.

Glenn and I aren’t training these guys for the glory of being the leaders of this movement. We simply train whoever wants training. We don’t really care who they work for or what company they own. We will train anyone.

Almost everyone wants confidentiality when it comes to something like seduction training, so we extend that courtesy to members of the seduction industry just like we would extend it to a lawyer or teacher or anyone else who feels its sensitive information.

When I get asked about this in public, I usually just try to keep it vague but truthful. Yes, I’ve trained at least one coach or employee for every seduction company in the USA, but I’m not going to name names.

There are some coaches out there who proudly proclaim they’ve studied with me, and others who want to keep it a secret.  That’s not my concern. My only concern is to give them the best training I possibly can during the time that I have them.

Speaking of becoming the new figurehead of the community….

This is an idea that I have been resistant to in the past.

I’m quite happy to sit back and stay out of it. I’ll run my 30/30 Club, my workshops, and my Pickup Mansion and ignore the rest.

This is generally what I do.

If I had to write my own Top Ten list, I wouldn’t know where to start, because I haven’t seen anyone in field on the entire list except Glenn and Cajun.

But there’s one thing I do know.

I know that the students have a very clear opinion on what they want, what they’re getting, and what they want changed.

The students who come to workshops tell me everything. They tell me which coaches refuse to demo. They tell me which coaches don’t seem to give a shit about the students. They tell me which coaches have a huge ego.

After 5 years of listening closely to students, I think I have a pretty good idea of what the coaches should be doing.

So if I’m going to be regarded as the new leader of the movement, I’ll take that as an opportunity to make a positive change for everyone. I’d like to take this opportunity to help the students get more out of the trainings, and help the coaches become better at what they do.

Some of the students are mild-manner guys who won’t speak up for themselves. My heart goes out to these guys, because if a coach is lazy or egotistical, it’s easy for the coach to frame control the student and not deliver what he wants.

So if there are any coaches or business owners out there reading this, here’s my message to you-

If a student asks you to do a demo, just shut the fuck up and demo. Don’t go on some long speech about some weird topic or talk about your girlfriend or how she doesn’t like it or whatever. Nobody cares. Just shut the fuck up and demo. If you don’t want to demo, then you’re ruining the credibility of our entire industry and you should retire immediately.

The reason coaches get “demo anxiety” is because they have made exaggerated claims and now they are trying to live up to some unrealistic idea like “I can get any girl” or “I can open any set.”

It really doesn’t have to be this way.

If you really do get laid from cold approach, you have nothing to worry about. Just show the students what you normally do. Show them the good with the bad. This is what I taught to Glenn, Jake and the rest of my coaches. I tell them “just show real approach skills that lead to real lays.” It’s very simple.

Students can learn just as much from how you handle a blowout as they can from watching you get a make-out.

If you have never taught anything before and it’s your dream to become a seduction coach, I recommend you get some kind of teaching experience before you dive into seduction coaching. Even if it’s just volunteer work or helping underprivileged kids, it’s helpful.

When you are coaching someone in seduction, you hold that person’s future in your hands. If you do well, his life will be greatly improved. If you suck, you can do a great deal of damage.

Aspiring coaches are often blind to the meaning of this job, intoxicated by their ego and the lure of a rock-star lifestyle.

Most of the bigger companies have some kind of apprenticeship period, which I think is perfectly fine. The problem is the guys who just show up out of nowhere, with no curriculum, and no teaching background, and then they start teaching.

Why do they do it?

These newbie coaches are chasing their dream. They want the status and lifestyle of being a dating coach. If this is the reason you’re getting into it, that’s not a good reason.

It’s not about you. It’s not about your dream. It’s not about the lifestyle, and it’s not about the money.

It’s about the students. It’s about the contribution you can make to their life.

It’s about the lessons you can teach them, and making them better off that they were before.

If you really think it’s about you and your dream, then you’ve totally missed the point of all of this. You’re destined to be one of those egotistical coaches who doesn’t have the ability to empathize with the students.

Those guys don’t last very long in this business.

Now, let me move on to talk to talking to the students.

As a student, you have a very important job also.

If the coach does his job well, but you don’t do yours, then you won’t get anything out of your training.

Here’s a few tips for guys who want to get the most out of a workshop or 1on1:

1- Check your anger at the door.

If you’re angry at another workshop coach because his workshop sucked or he wouldn’t do any demos, don’t throw that anger on your new coach. Keep an open mind and allow your new coach to do his job.

2- Don’t get freaked out about the money.

I sometimes see a student in a workshop who is so stressed out about “getting my money’s worth” that he is not open to any of the lessons that are going on in the workshop.

They may waste the first few hours of the workshop thinking about this.

This kind of thinking is not conducive to learning.

Your mind won’t be open to new ideas if you’re already having a mild freak out.

Just try to relax. If the training sucks, just get your money back when it’s over. All the companies have a money-back guarantee. The whole point of that guarantee is so you can relax and learn, instead of worrying about money.

3- Do whatever it takes to open your mind to what the coach is telling you.

Suspend disbelief for a few days. Do whatever they’re telling you to do. Try anything the coaches suggest. Just put your faith in the coaches and open your mind. If it doesn’t work, you can always try something else later.

Seduction coaching is not an exact science, there is some trial and error to the process. So give your coaches some room to experiment and find what’s going to work for you.

4- Don’t expect it to be easy.

Don’t look for shortcuts. Don’t expect the coach to do everything for you.

If you’re going to get good at seduction, 80% of the work will be done by you, and maybe 20% by the coaches. 20% is the absolute most a coach can do for you.

Looking for shortcuts and magic pills is the ultimate kiss of death in learning seduction.

It’s going to take 12 months minimum to get good. Accept it. Stop trying to fight it. All you’re doing is making it take longer.

I wrote a few longer articles on how to learn properly, and I’ll give you a few links to them here.

This first article is called “The 7 Deadly Sins of Seduction.” If you can steer clear of these 7 problems, you can get good at seduction in 1 year, instead of 3-5 years, or never.

This next article is about the old method of learning, and how it’s completely devoid of any structure or curriculum. Luckily I think the movement is getting past this mess in 2010.

I believe in pushing the teaching methodology of pickup forward as fast I can.

Before 2008, the teaching method was “Here’s a book, go figure it out yourself. If you run into problems, check the forum, which has advice from guys who are mostly keyboard jockeys. If you need any more help then that, take a workshop.”

What I’m trying to do is infuse this movement with something more than just good seduction ideas.

Having ideas that will get you laid was never the issue. Pickup methods have been incredible for years and years now.

The problem was teaching methodology. In my opinion, the workshop teachers have had a good idea of teaching methodology for several years now, but the ebooks and CDs were a total mess.

Without teaching methodology, the students will have far less results, and this damages the credibility of the entire movement.

Before 2008, the “seduction product” movement consisted of a series of product launches, claiming to be “new information” aimed at neophile consumeristic students. (see The Forbidden Truth).

These students were unlikely to use any of the information, because it was difficult to use, and they were more interested in being entertained anyway.

There’s this certain breed of student out there, they study a lot and never do anything. They occasionally come to a workshop, but they treat it like fantasy camp. They’ll tell the other students “Yeah dude, I’ve met Style and Mystery, even Juggler. Now I couldn’t wait to meet Brad P. because he’s the new #1 guy. Everyone says he’s the best in the world.”

These guys are casual observers, they’re not serious students.

If you come to my workshop or join my 30/30 Club, you can bet your ass I’ll be trying anything I can to transform you into a serious student.

There’s really no point in being a casual observer. All you’re doing is wasting your time and money.

So for the fantasy camp guys and the keyboard jockeys out there, I urge you to get serious and spend 2 hours in the field for every one hour you spend studying.

If you can’t do that, you should give your laptop charger to a friend to hold for you until you can do it. Stay off the computer until you’ve been in the field.

And for the product launchers, I urge you to make more effort to give students specific motivation and instructions on how they should use the information. Do anything you can to get them into the field. If you don’t do this, you are abetting their lack of action and wasted time.

I’ve though long and hard about how to get e-book reader type guys into the field more. It’s the most important problem in the seduction community today. I’m trying to do my part by including a “Users Manual” with every e-book. The users manual arrives in stages, days and weeks after the initial product, and attempts to motivate the student to use the information from the e-book.

This is still in the experimental stages, but I will keep everyone posted on if this has the desired effect.

OK, now that I’ve thoroughly pissed a few people off, I think that solidifies my role as the new figurehead of the movement. Thank you, Thundercat for giving me the exposure and the platform to get these ideas out.

Yes, I know I’m nitpicking on a lot of this stuff, but it needs to be said. Someone has to be there to push this thing in the right direction. If it’s got to me who does the nitpicking, so be it.

And now for the good news…

The good news is that 95% of the coaches really are doing a good job these days. Hundreds of students have told me how great their past workshop experiences have been. I’ve heard some of the most heartwarming stories about coaches who stayed out even when the workshop was over, jumped on a fattie CB for their students, or done something else that was above and beyond the call of duty.

In other good news, the accuracy and effectiveness of the information out there is truly incredible! Just about any ebook or DVD you buy these days is likely to give you something that will get you laid for sure if you apply it.

If you’re a guy who’s self motivated and willing to go into the field, you could spend a few hundred bucks and have enough info to bang 25 chicks a year for the rest of your life. This is something that was not possible just ten years ago.

We are all lucky to be living in a new era, and I’d like to put a name to our era.

We are living in The Golden Age of Seduction.

We are living in an age where you can watch the best pickup artists in the world picking up girls, right in front of your face. This is completely unprecedented in human history.

We are living in an age where a seduction genius can write a book, put it on the internet, and you can be reading it 3 minutes after you find the web page.

And….it’s only getting better!

As the years go by, the teaching techniques have been getting better and better.

The information has been getting better and better.

More and more talented coaches have entered our movement.

The talented coaches are sticking with it a lot longer than they used to.

The under-qualified coaches are starting to get weeded out.

Things are getting better and better!

Let’s make 2010 the best year ever in the seduction movement!

Let’s make this the year where all the students get into the field.

Let’s make this the year where all the coaches give it their all.

Let’s make this the year where everyone gets laid like crazy!

For more good news, read Geeks Get Girls-

-Brad P.

Get Your Free Guide Here!


25 Responses to “Brad P Responds To This Year’s Top 10 Ranking”
  1. PUA says:

    The good news is that 95% of the coaches really are doing a good job these days

    pls stfu!!!!!!!!

  2. David Black says:

    It’s not often I bookmark a blog post, but this one just got the delicious treatment. Excellent work Brad, many great insights & ideas here that I’ll be refering back to.

  3. I’d like to add my own two cents to this cool article you wrote Brad.

    First off, I agree with on the subject of big egos existing in the dating industry.

    I won’t drop any names here because I don’t disrespect those who do not disrespect me, but there have been many instances where people got banned from forums because they dared to disagree, or expose other truths than the ones that were being promoted.

    Next to that, I’ve seen it in myself and a lot of my students that the higher the level of REAL confidence you have, the less value you attach to your ego.

    The reason for this is simple: confidence is focusing on the belief in one’s true self, while the ego focuses on the pursuit of selfish needs because of it’s egocentric nature. Big difference.

    Secondly, I agree with you about the need for students to see which coaches truly keep their needs and wants at heart and which don’t… but I disagree with you on the fairness of such a Top 10 because there seem to have been occasions where people were in the Top 10 because of politics, not skills or achievements.

    Plus, a top 10 would automatically mean that if there are 11 good coaches that the eleventh one isn’t recognized for his efforts. That he somehow has less significance. I think in an ever expanding industry a top 25 would fit much better.

    Lastly, I couldn’t agree with you more about why coaches get into bizz. Some just get it all wrong. They think a business, any business is about the money and the fame. But my friend, a business is a part of the economy and the economy’s basic principle is supply and demand.

    In essence, you give people what they need and wants as a business. You materialize it. There’s no supply without the demand, any business needs customers to survive and therefore needs to fulfill a customers’ need. That way, everybody wins.

    Having said that, I and we, Brad, are in an industry that revolves around helping men build confidence, with helping men become (more) happy and it’s our responsibility, no, DUTY, to give our students what they need perhaps more than any other business needs to do that.

    You CAN’T get away with scamming people out of their money, with giving them crappy value, and in my opinion? Don’t get into it if you don’t have an unique perspective on things, because you’ll be saying the same as everyone else does.

    I got in the game of giving dating advice because I absolutely love teaching and this so happens to be the one thing that I can teach the best… and what I have the most to say about.

    Sometimes, I pull an all-nighter or eat bread for dinner just because I want to see someone getting help. That’s how it supposed to be… not giving advice for the sake of getting money. Giving advice for the sake of helping out your fellow man, for the love of the (dating) game.

    To More Dating Success,

    Dennis Miedema
    Win With Women

  4. matrix says:

    just bookmarked this post. BradP definetly hit the nail on the head with all his comments.

  5. Paul says:

    Hey Brad,

    honest question:

    Why are you one of the few pickup companies with NO infield footage whatsoever??

    Even RSD has infield footage now…

    I think it is funny how you bash other people for making infield footage. Those people may be frauds or not but at least there is video evidence from them talking to girls.

    Where is your evidence? Where is any evidence of you having any skill as a seducer or as an instructor? Student testimonials don’t count as 90% of those are fake. Just look at the Love Systems board, how come every student who writes a (always positive) review only has one post? And also lets face it, people who pay for bootcamps are usually so socially retarded that it doesn’t take much to impress them or to make them believe you are changing their lifes.

    Why is there no infield footage of you or your coaches? It is the ONLY way for the objective observer to find out if you are for real or not. Edited or not, showing only the best moments or not, infield footage is the way to see who is legit ot not, as well as a very good teaching tool. Way better than boring theory seminars or whatever.

    So Brad, instead of bashing other gurus for making infield footage, why don’t you make infield footage yourself of you or any of your coaches?

    It doesn’t have to be anything super impressive, as we all know that “flash game” doesn’t get you laid. I just want to see video evidence of you or any of your coaches talking to girls and not creeping them out.

    I don’t care if Sinn or Thundercat or TSB-mag rank you in some stupid list. No video, no proof.

    As a potential costumer I don’t think that is too much to ask for.

  6. Sam says:

    The question I would ask is: To what extent does Brad P (and many other seduction coaches) rely on his looks (or his height or being white other physical attributes)? While looks are not a deal-maker for women, they can certainly be a deal-breaker. Looks also allow you to open much more easily. Don’t let gurus with looks tell you that looks don’t matter. They absolutely do. What that means for all guys (i include myself in this) that don’t fit that profile is that we have to develop ways in which we can offset that: how we project ourselves, (for shorter guys) making sure you dominate and project your voice, don’t be typecast into an ethnic profile, etc (not in any kind of insecure way – just make it part of who you are). So, certainly, you can make up the difference, but its important that gurus with looks don’t overlook it or minimize it. This is why I prefer working with trainers who don’t trade on their looks (and yes of course there are a couple of really well known gurus out there who fit that description – even they would be the first to admit it!)

  7. Denny says:

    Why don’t you ever show your pics Brad P? what are you afraid of? every other pua shows us what they look like

  8. Pua says:


    go to and see how bradp looks like.

  9. George says:


    I hear ya, but like you say, infield footage is just flash game it doesn’t necessarily lead to lays if the rest of your game is shit. It’s better than just pics with hot girls.

    If ur worried about whether he creeps out girls, u can find infield audios online. It’s not as good, but u can get a general idea.

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