The Power of the Dark Side — mASF and Shredded Souls

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**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/18/03

I found a post on mASF entitled “The aftermath of mASF and her shredded soul.” The post was just the right amount of melodrama to capture my interest, so I decided to check it out. It was put up by a guy called Acolyte and goes as follows:

Topic:
The aftermath of mASF and her shredded soul. (1 of 17), Read 562 times
Conf: >> General
From: arby_acolyte ratty1@webmail.co.za
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 03:19 AM

I hurt a girl today. Her heart is shattered into a million pieces.

Because of me. Entirely. And I have no excuse.

Does this feel good? No.

The stuff on this site is powerful. Very little is mentioned here on the emotional effect we’re having on our targets – sure, we’re creating and amping attraction etc…. ..but no thought is given to the resulting ATTACHMENT that our ‘targets’ begin to feel.

Guys, for the sake of your Karma (if you believe in that kinda thing), use this info wisely. Its not a toy.

I understand how/why she feels as she does and, if she doesn’t commit suicide, she’ll recover… ..and heed this: She’s NOT a psycho, just regular LSE.

Such is the power we have on mASF.

Acolyte.
PS. I’ve taken this girl under my wing and I intend to help her regain her feet. I intend to do what I can to raise her Self-Esteem. Please wish her luck.

______________________________
peripheral vision is often overrated

Now, this post is interesting because I am very much conflicted as to how I feel about it. On one side, I empathise with the guy. On the other hand, I can see where all the posters who are responding to him are coming from.

The thing that is easy to forget on the internet is that these girls are real people. When you read about them in cold words on your computer screen and imagine the generic woman in your head, its easy to be neutral in your assessment of where this guy went wrong and why he shouldn’t be feeling the way he does. The thing is, this girl is very real for this Acolyte guy. She’s probably someone he slept with, someone he shared something with, and someone he probably connected with on some level. And he ended up breaking her heart. Its funny, because the subculture we exist in with the studying of PUA is not very conducive to looking at women as real people, rather, they become objects of our desires and conquests. An example of this is Ellyn, who I mentioned in the post earlier. I shared a part of my life with that chick, and even though I do talk shit about her, when I was on the phone, the last thing I wanted to do was hurt her feelings, because I could HEAR the genuine emotion in her voice that she was happy to hear from me.

I think that’s the crux of the issue there. Emotion is the stongest frame there is, and it overrides all logic. That’s one of the reasons chicks are so powerful. They run on emotion, they are able to manifest it faster and more powerfully than most men can think of, and when they do, us men are swept right along into their frame (well, unless you’re jlaix, but he’s in a league all his own =)

I personally do not think its AFC for him to feel bad that this girl got hurt. But the posters in the thread are right, even if they are a bit crass in their advice. This is a natural chick response to recapture the relationship frame, by guilting the guy into helping her overcome her emotion. If this Acolyte dude persists in trying to help her get over him, she’s gonna suck him back into her reality, and eventually hurt him the way she was hurt just to salvage some of her self-esteem. I don’t think she’d do it consciously or maliciously, but I do think its very likely to go down that way. So he’s damned if he does, and damned if he doesn’t, as far as this girl is concerned.

Which brings us to an interesting moral quandary: How do you act with girls, enjoy tehir company, and protect yourself all at the same time? Do you allow yourself to become attacted and run the risk of being manipulated? Or do you keep yourself detached and never really enjoy a substancial relationship?

I prefer to look at pick-up in very Machiavellian terms. If none of you have ever read Machiavelli, I suggest picking up his book “The Prince.” Its quite a brilliant book on politics, leadership, and persuasion. (I happen to believe Machiavelli has been reincarnated as Swinggcat, but that’s another post all together =) Anyhow, the thing about Machiavelli is that he is completely amoral. His advice is designed to get you results, not make judgements about right or wrong. Whether you use the information for good or evil, that is up to the individual.

In terms of PUA, I rate my success on my happiness at the time. If I’m doing shit with a girl and I’m happy, then I’m successful. If I’m involved with a girl and I’m miserable and paranoid and insecure, I am definitely not doing something right. So I think the trick is to create a reality that is so strong that your happiness exists regardless of who you’re with, and you allow the girls you date to take part in that happiness. I base this on Zan’s philosophy. Here’s a guy who’s 9 girlfriends and ex-wife just threw him a lingerie party for his 40th birthday, and they all know each other and do not get catty or jealous. How is this possible? Simple. He never destroys that sense of beauty that is around him. That sense of happiness, that frame that he creates that sucks people in. Its always there, and it diffuses any negativity that exists around him.

The bhuddist believe that to attain enlightenment, you must kill all desire. I think to get good at PUA, and I’m talking master level here, you really do have to kill all desire when it comes to women. But at the same time, you still have to CARE for the women, otherwise you end up hurting them. I guess I’m saying you have to be desire-less but care-full (pun intended).

Its a fine line for sure, and I’m not quite sure how to attain it yet. But its something for me to think about. I hope this rant made some sort of sense. If anyone has any thoughts on this or how to go about doing this, I’d love to hear them.

Thundercat

The Social Circle of Life

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03

Okay all you AFCs,

Here is a copy of my most recent article from Cliff’s List on Social Circles. Aside from the gay title, I think its pretty good. I’m still looking for my article on walk-ups. When I find that, I’ll post it.

Ho!

Thundercat

******************************************************

The Social Circle Of Life
How to Create the Best Possible Environment for Getting Laid
An Essay by Tundercat

I’ll be the first to admit it. I’m a nerd. I like to watch TV, go to movies, read books, play on my computer, and even partake in the occasional MMORPG. But when I’m not waxing philosophical about who could kick who’s ass — Kirk or Han Solo — I’m out trying to pick up chicks.

The thing is, what I do is cold approaches. Cold Approaches are basically approaches where you approach a woman you do not know in the hopes of attracting her so you can lay her. Without a doubt, this is probably the hardest form of Pick-Up there is. Why? Well, for one thing, the Fear Factor on cold approaches is the highest. They don’t know you, you don’t know them, and the risk of getting rejected is high. This is one of the reasons many people cannot do cold approaches. It is just much too scary.

But the reason I do them is because I currently have no better option available to me. If I don’t cold approach a girl, I won’t meet any. But a funny thing happens if you cold approach enough girls. You become friends with them!

As strange as it sounds, it is true. Though the average Pick-Up Artist (PUA) is not looking to make friends with the girls he approaches, odds are if they like you enough to fuck you, you will become friends. And even if they don’t want to fuck you, the least they are willing to become is a friend because they enjoy your company enough.

This is a funny little side effect to approaching, and because of it, my eyes were opened to something. It’s a dirty little secret, yet one that is so obvious I am surprised that I did not see it before. Are you ready? Okay, here it is:

Most people get laid from their social circles.

This is a fact, my friends. Sure, cold approaching can lead to the occasional one night stand (ONS), or even a same day lay that blossoms into a relationship. But very rarely does this happen. In fact, it happens so rarely, that I really rate my approach success based on the quality of numbers I get. I say quality because anyone can get a number, but a number from a girl who actually gives you her REAL number and will actually RETURN your phone call is so much more important than the quantity of numbers one receives.

But of all the guys I hang around with who get laid, the ones who do so with the most frequency are those with large social circles that include women in them. For instance, I have a friend who is going to college. He belongs to a number of groups: Martial Arts, Role Playing, Historical Reenactment, etc. And he gets laid. He gets laid a LOT. Probably more than most PUAs, and DEFINITELY more than me. The funny thing is, this guy DOES NOT APPROACH! In fact, he’s just as scared at approaching women as 90% of the guys reading mASF (moderate Alt Seduction Fast) are.

When I noticed this, I took a good look at the guys I know who are getting laid frequently, and sure enough, there was the proof. They were all getting laid from either girls they already knew, or met through friends, family, or some type of hobby.

This is an incredible revelation for me because social circles have always been the primary dipping source for men I knew were getting laid. Back in my AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) days, I’d only hang out with my guy friends, who weren’t getting laid either. I’d do solitary activities, play on the computer, and take part in social activities that were typically heavily attended by males. In short, my social circle did not include women, and because of that, I did not get laid.

As my awareness of women grows, along with my seduction skills, I am beginning to realize that being a PUA is not just about getting laid, but cultivating a social circle conducive to interacting with women ON A DAILY BASIS.

Most of the men I have met who are not getting laid or who are struggling to get laid are the ones whose social circles are almost completely empty of women, and the women who do encompass their social circles do not interact with them regularly.

A scary truth about guys not getting laid is that they are not comfortable talking to women. Sometimes, I STILL do not feel comfortable talking to women. And this can show in your sarging (interacting with women with the intent of laying them). I am willing to bet that most guys who cannot talk to or approach women do not have many female friends in their social circles. And if they do, the girls are friends they would like to fuck. They do not know what it is like to truly be friends with a girl they do not want to sex up, and because of that, there is always a feeling of comfortableness just below the surface of their interaction with girls, which the girls can pick up on and which completely throws off the guy’s state.

So the trick is to expand your social circle so it becomes something that is conducive to getting you laid.

The fact is, a female friend is the most powerful tool you have in your seduction arsenal, especially if she is attractive. Approaching other women with another woman who can social proof you and talk you up is probably the single most invaluable trick there is to approaching. When you have a female with you who is actively working to HELP you get laid, chances are it will happen, and more quickly than if you were acting on your own. Not only that, but the girl will also have friends that she will try to hook you up with if you demonstrate youв’re cool enough to be her friend. Through these girls, you will find your comfort around women increase, along with you success rate.

So how do you do this? Well, the first step is to befriend a girl. How is this done? Well, most AFCs (Average Frustrated Chumps) have had a lot of experience with the “Let’s Just Be Friends” area of life. But this is not the same thing. The fact is, with the “Let’s Just Be Friends” stigma, you are not really the girl’s friend because you still want to fuck her and she knows it.

The best way I know how to expand your social circle is to befriend other GUYS who are good with women. Not the type of guys who use women and throw them away, but the type of guys who are fun and always surrounded by girls. You befriend this guy, and he will introduce you to the girls who surround them. You can meet these guys anywhere, and it’s much easier to approach and make friends with men because there is no sexual tension there. You guys can connect on basic male subjects such as sports, women, business, etc. If nothing else, you may make a new valuable male friend out of the deal.

You can meet these guys anywhere you go, be it a club, bar, museum, concert, etc. It doesn’t matter. You will meet them doing stuff you like to do. Most guys will go for the girls right away, but if you befriend the guy who is IN with the girls, he will help you to get them.

Once in with the guys, its time to move onto the girls. Have him introduce you. Tell the girls how good of a friend he is. Show them that you’re a cool guy. Become their friends. The cooler the guy you befriend, the hotter the women he knows. The hotter the women he knows, the better quality of women they will introduce you to.

The next step will take a bit of willpower on your part, but you want to actually BEFRIEND the girl with the knowledge that you are not going to sleep with her. No matter how hot she is, you must take her out of the “I wanna FUCK!” category. This is crucial because if you go after her for the full monty (fuck), you could screw up the friendship.

But once she’s your friend, you can practice on her. Talk to her, call her up and bullshit, go out with her, let her feel safe and comfortable around you. Once she’s your buddy, get her to introduce you to her friends. Those are the ones you game on. This is because you’ll be at an advantage with them. Not only will you have a girl who is their friend hyping you up, but you’ll also be social proofed by the guy you befriended, who has also probably met the girl you’re being introduced to. Right there is instant social proof that you’re cool enough to hang with them. Then its time to game the girl, which should be easier than cold approaching because the meeting is inherent.

But when it comes to cold approaching, the women you befriend become even more powerful. This is where the real fun can happen. You can use your female friends to approach other groups of people. You can introduce her to the men while she does the same for you with the women. Not only that, its natural social proof when you’re with a girl, and you feel more comfortable talking to women, which makes you more attractive.

In fact, this is so powerful that I know PUAs who’s entire game is based on Social Circles. A woman you use to help you get laid is often referred to as a “Pivot” or a “Pawn.” They are used as pieces on a chessboard to break down defenses and open doorways to score checkmate.   One guy I know is SO effective with the girls in his social circle, that if there is a guy trying to get with a female friend of his, he will actually get the guy to pull him other chicks before he social proofs the guy with his friend. This is another great tactic, especially if you’re lazy about approaching. In this situation, not only are his pivots pulling other girls for him, but the guys after his pivots are as well. And in the end, all you’re getting is a bigger social circle which will make it easier to get laid.

It is very easy to befriend women, because when you make it clear you do not want to have sex with them, they can feel safe with you and allow you to “mess up” around them in practicing your PUA skills. Not only that, but being around women will teach you SO MUCH about pick-up, your game will rapidly increase.

In his book Real World Seduction, Swinggcat says “If you want to get good at picking-up women, surround yourself by five beautiful women who are good at getting guys.” This is important, because all the best PUAs just act like really hot chicks. They steal the chick frame that gets guys all into them and turn it around on the girls. The more you hang out with women, the more you will begin to incorporate this mindset into your seduction repertoire.

So friends, I recommend you go out there and start getting to know more girls in a non-sexual way. They will help you a great deal in adding some notches to your belt. I hope to expand my social circle massively in the coming future, so that I may also reap the benefits of having many lady friends.

Thundercat