The Top 10 Pick-Up Artists Of 2003
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis, Top 10 Lists
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03
Okay, so the debate has been raging for a while now over who is the best PUA (Pick-Up Artist) out there. Obviously, a lot of egos are involved in this statement, and everyone has their own opinions about who the best really is. In fact, its so subjective, that I don’t really think there will ever be a clear and honest answer on the subject. Its like asking who the best warrior or soldier is in a war. But the fact of the matter remains, no one can ever ALWAYS be the best. They’re always going to have their off days — be a little bit slow, a little bit late, a little bit unprepared or caught off guard. But that doesn’t stop some people from categorizing the people in our little community as “The Best.” So I’ve decided to throw my hat in the ring and rate the top 10 PUAs operating out there.
However, only the people I have met personally are eligible for my list. There could very well be many great PUAs out there that beat these guys out, but I have not met them and cannot verify their skills personally, so they are off my list for now, though I will mention a few afterwards who I think are worthy of it. Also, my rankings are not based on sheer skill alone, rather, they are based on consistency, and what I have seen as far as how often they are practicing what they preach. So keep that in mind as we go through this.
Thundercat’s Top 10 Pick-Up Artist
1. Style: Style is definitely, hands down, bar none, the best operating in the game today. This guy is probably the most evil, sneaky, manipulative bastard I have ever seen in operation. The thing is, this guy comes in totally under the radar, and that is why he is so dangerous. His subtlety is so amazing, that before you know it, you are qualifying yourself to him and he has you right where he wants you. And the thing is, he does it with both girls AND guys. No one is safe. To give you an idea of how incredible Style is, he’s practically invented most of the techniques a lot of the top guys, like Mystery and Tyler Durden, are using and teaching. He is practically Machiavellian in nature, and is someone I both admire and fear. I should also point out that I have a special, non-gay, place in my heart for this man, because it was with his help that I broke down my barrier with approaching women, so I owe a lot of my current game and success to Style, which is another reason why I rate him #1.
2. Swinggcat: Swinggcat comes in at a close second, and would in fact probably be number one if it weren’t for the fact that that he is a better looking guy than Style. Swinggcat is a pretty hip looking (think a shorter version of Vince Vaughn in Swingers and you get a rough idea of what Swinggcat looks like), whereas Style is a skinny, bald, jewish guy. Swinggcat is just as evil, sneaky, and manipulative, but considering what Style has to overcome in the looks department, that puts his game above Swingg’s. That said, I have seen Swinggcat in action on numerous occasions and am amazed at a lot of his game. The way he is able to process and sum up the information girls give him and turn their frame around is truly a sight to see. Not only that, he is so intuative, he can make up cold readings on the fly and be almost 100% accurate, which is fuckin’ creepy. His book only scratches the surface of his vast knowledge, and I think we’ll be getting a lot of good (and evil) stuff from his upcoming newsletters.
3. Zan: Zan is not a name that is very well known in the community, but having met the guy and seen him in action, I am convinced he is one of the top dudes out there when it comes to picking up chicks. In fact, I’d have even placed him at number 1 if it wasn’t for the fact that this guy is a “natural” seducer, and therefore what he does cannot be taught to others. But in accordance with the sheer skill of his game, he lays all others flat on their back. The thing is, the guy looks like a male model. He’s 40 years old, but looks like he’s 20. He actually USED to be a model, in fact, back in France in the 80′s I think, and his girlfriend was Monica Bellucci of the Matrix fame (hey, don’t hate the player, hate the game =). Currently, the guy has between 6 and 9 hot ass girlfriends who ALL know about each other, and apparently he enjoys many 3-somes and fuck buddies to boot. Not only that, but Zan has one of the most amazing philosophies on life I have ever heard. He spends his time moving towards beauty and away from things that are not beautiful. I hung out with the guy for only 3 days, but I am secure enough in my masculinity to say that if I was a chick, I’d have been all over him. Probably the coolest guy in the community. He was on stage at the Chicago DYD seminar, and if David DeAngelo ever decides to sell the audio to that thing, you’ll get a real treat hearing Zan speak about inner game. Simply amazing.
4. Maddash: Maddash, like Zan, is also a successful, good looking, older guy. He’s a big proponant of the “No Game” game, which is pretty much emulating the behaviors of “naturals,” such as Zan, and because of that, Maddash’s game comes off as very subtle and natural. When I saw him in action I was very impressed. It seems like he gets a new girl every night. The thing about Maddash is that his life is not ruled by PUA, he is very much into business and athletics as well. Pick-up is just a small factor of his life, but one he strives to perfect — and boy, does he do a good job at it.
5. Craig: Craig probably deserves to be higher on the list, but unfortuneately, I think the four people above him beat him as far as technique goes. That said, Craig is VERY good. He is the king of the short-set method. This is basically where you approach a set of women, say something funny/amusing, then move onto the next set and repeat. Its a very good way of being social and works great in bar scenes. Its also good for creating social proof. Craig is also a very funny guy, and his dancing skills help attract attention from others (in a good way, mind you). The quality of women Craig gets is quite high. I have yet to see him with a girl I would rank lower than a 9 on the looks scale. Not only that, but he seems to get them pretty consistantly. However, the fact that he comes off as a good looking frat guy, the fact that he has appeared on Elimidate, and the fact that he lives on a beach, are all contributing factors to his success — but that does not take away from the fact that he is very skilled. He is also one of the few PUAs I’ve seen that can do all his shit effectively while drunk. He was also on stage at the Chicago DYD seminar, so you may hear stuff from him fairly soon.
6. Mystery: Okay, I know Mystery is gonna be pissed that I rank him so low (or not. He probably doesn’t give a shit what I think. Can ya blame him?), but in my opinion, for as good as Mystery is, the other 5 guys are better. The thing about Mystery is that he’s incredibly good at raising his value in other’s eyes. I’ve seen him pull off some amazing instances of social proof with his magic tricks, and he is incredibly entertaining, funny, and exciting. Its easy to get caught up in Mystery’s spell. That said, the reason I rate him #6 is because I do not feel his long game is very good. I always get the sense that Mystery has a hard time genuinely connecting with people, and this effects his long term relationships. It seems like he can be very insecure at times and needs constant validation from others, which leads to a lot of mind games that get him his validation, but at the same time succeeds in pushing people away from him. Whether or not this is intentional, I don’t know, but it happens. He also seems to care more about adjusting his game to suit the girl than making the girl adjust to his game, which I think ends up hurting his pick-up in the long run because it is not really congruent with who he is and how he presents himself long term. In fact, if you hang out with Mystery long enough, you get the sense that everything he talks to you about is a pattern, and he always ends up bringing the conversation back to his favorite topic, which is, of course, himself. And that is the reason I put him at #6.
7. Tyler Durden: Tyler is one of the big “up and comers” in the community. His posts made him a legend on ASF, and then once he teamed up with Papa and started doing workshops, his stock only rose. For a while, there was speculation as to whether or not TD was all talk, but he proved to everybody that he was legit in the Vegas Mystery Method workshop where he not only got laid, but got Style and Mystery laid as well. I have seen Tyler at work in the field, and he is impressive. He is a genuinely funny and engaging guy with lots of interesting stuff to talk about. His posts are some of the most interesting to read in the community as well, and he backs up his teachings with lots of field experience. However, like Mystery, I get the sense that TD has problems in his long game. When he picks chicks up, he does so from the frame where he makes the girls feel like “bad girls” or “sluts.” This works good for party girls and good girls alike, but on day two when the frame wears off, the girls associate that feeling with him and then flake, because feeling bad and slutty might be exciting for a night, but long term it is not a good feeling. TD also comes off as very gay. This is not a bad thing per say, but he has adopted the “hot chick” frame so congruently, that I think when girls sleep with him, its almost incongruent with who they thought he was. I could, of course, be totally wrong in this assessment since I haven’t hung out and sarged with Tyler as much as I’d like, but I’m going off of what I have noticed.
8. Primoman: Primoman is a dude that is no longer an active member of the community, but he is still a pick-up artist in every sense of the word. Primoman is known as the “King of the Ugs.” He is a dude who I’ve yet to see without a girl on his arm. Allbeit, that girl is usually ugly, or fat, or a combination of the two, but nonetheless, it is a girl. Primoman is not so much about quality as he is about QUANTITY. He probably lays more girls than any other guy in the community, but he is also not too picky with his prospects. Regardless, he gets laid a LOT! And that’s what it all comes down to in the end. His game is very Juggler in nature. In fact, he is quite AFC in his approach, but he is just so congruent with who he is and gently persistent in his sarge, that he eventually wins the girl over. Lately he’s been working his way up the “looks” scale as far as his girls go, so he may be giving Style a run for his money some day.
9. Sickboy: Sickboy is a protogee of Tyler and Papa. He’s a New Yorker and is best known for his appearance in the movie Zoolander as one of the male models in the movie. Yes, that’s right, the guy looks like a male model. But despite this, he is incredibly down to earth and has absolutely no ego about himself. He’s a very easy guy to talk to and a good friend. His game is also quite solid, though I do think it’s helped greatly by his looks. I think his frames aren’t as strong as they could be, but he definitely has the subtleties of PUA down pat. He recently spoke to the NYC lair and that’s a great read if you can find the transcripts somewhere. He’s a guy to look out for.
10. Harmless: Harmless is not what you would expect from a PUA. He’s pretty prolific on ASF, and seems to know his shit. The thing is, the guy comes off very much as his name describes him — Harmless. He’s a pretty average looking guy who seems very unassuming at first. But then you see the guy in action, and he’s very good. I think he comes across much like Mystery and TD, where he raises his value in the girl’s eyes by being entertaining and engaging. I know I enjoy talking to the guy, if that’s any indication. I haven’t seen enough of his game in action to critique it any further, but I do know he’s going to start teaching workshops soon, so his game’s gotta be pretty high. Regardless, he’s one to keep an eye on.
HONORABLE MENTIONS
There are a number of other people out there who probably deserve to be on this list, but like I said before, I have not had a chance to really see them in action. But here are a few who I think deserve a mention.
Bad Boy — Apparently this guy is amazing. I know TD gets a lot of his AMOG tactics from Bad Boy. He’s a croatian pick-up artist who was injured in the Bosnian war, which makes his game so much more incredible considering he was almost killed and still suffers the effects from that somewhat. Apparently the guy is very fearless and straight-forward agressive with women. In fact, some would descibe his game as all cocky and no funny, which is probably why its so effective. Not only that, but he is supposed to be incredibly congruent. I know he’s currently fucking Miss Croatia and using her as a pawn to pull other women for threesomes if that tells you anything about his game.
Toecutter – I don’t know the guy personally and all I have to go off of are his posts on ASF and Mystery’s Lounge, but this guy seems to have it going on. I know TD studdied his archive like the dead sea scrolls, and his posts convey a very congruent attitude. I’m interested in seeing him in action, and if I’m ever in Canada I’ll see if I can’t hook up with him.
MTLPUA — Don’t know much about him, but I hear he’s really good.
David X — I know Clifford had good things to say about him.
Chet – The Chetinator! I got to see him speak in Chicago. Supposedly he’s god-like with women, but I have yet to see him in action and can’t say for sure.
Adam – The “natural.” Look to see great things from this guy in the future!
Masterclass — The guy is currently juggling 4 girls right now. He’s also an incredibly sneaky speed seducer who is moving more into the cocky/funny stuff and having great success. Right now, I think his game could be up there with the best there is if he got past his fear of approaching.
Rick H. — The legend. I have not hung out with the guy yet, but I’m sure when I do, it’ll be veeeeeeery interesting. =)
Ross Jeffries — I’ve hung out with Ross on a few occasions now and have only sarged with him once. From what I saw, I liked, but have not done enough field work with him to accurately rate the guy. I know Papa speaks highly of him, and he’s been out in the field with him more than I have.
Papa – I go out with Papa all the time, so I’m a bit biased when it comes to his skill level. He teaches at all of TD and Mystery’s workshops as well, and his field reports are always worth a read. He’s also single-handedly bringing this community together, so he has to be respected for that at the very least. The reason I didn’t put him in the top 10 was because much of his material is from Style and Tyler. I think in order to be in the top 10, a PUA needs to be developing his own style. One thing I will say about Papa is that he is incredibly good with creating strong frames.
Alphamale – This guy is incredibly impressive. Most of his game is based on using pivots to pull girls for him. I haven’t hung out with the guy enough to get an idea of how good he is, but from what I have seen, his game is awesome.
Well, there ya go, my Top 10. Hopefully one day I’ll make my list, but I doubt it! I’m much too hard on myself, lol.
That’s why they call me…
Thundercat
Swingcat’s Open Loop Theory
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis, Articles
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03
**Image removed
YEEEEEEAH! Damn, I’m buzzed. Just heard one of my favorite shows — Carnivale — got renewed by HBO for a second season. I swear, if I only had HBO on my TV and no other channel, I’d be happy. Their original programming is the best on TV! Carnivale, coupled with The Wire and the Sopranos are a few of the shows I set everything aside for to watch. I am really jazzed! You can find the announcement at the Hollywood Reporter by following this link:
Now, someone had to go on the SS list and start blasting my favorite fall season show by saying its too frustrating to watch. In fact, he said that it was an example of going too far with “open loops.” Now, what they’re doing discussing Swinggcat terminology on the SS board is beyond me, especially considering that Ross is a stickler for not talking about other people’s products (but since Swinggcat used to be his top student, I guess he’s making exceptions). Anyway, this discussion brought up an interesting point about open loops.
For those of you who don’t know what an Open Loop is, its a verbal form of creating insecurity, anticipation, and a need to qualify through the use of creating an open ended story. Yes, that’s a round-a-bout explanation, but its the best I can do from memory. Swinggcat has a whole chapter in his book about open loops that explains it better than I ever could. But an example of an open loop would be something like:
PUA: “You know, this place reminds me of when I was in a german sex show with my girlfriend.”
HB: “You were in a german sex show? What happened?”
PUA: “Well I was in Germany because I love McDonalds ice cream, and I made it a personal goal to try McDonalds ice cream in every country in the world. Don’t you just love ice cream?”
So what’s happening there? You set up the fact that you were doing something exotic and forbidden, but you fail to pay it off and start talking about something silly and stupid. But the whole time you’re doing that, the other person will be thinking “Yes, but what about the sex show!!!???” and if they ask you, you start talking about something else, never quite giving them what they want. That’s an open loop. Its an interesting hook that someone wants closure on, and you’re the only one who can give it to them, but you don’t. You make them work for it. Its a very sneaky, subtle, eeeeevil way to get people to qualify themselves to you. They’ll be saying shit like “Please tell me! Pleeeeeaaaaase!” And you can grin and say “I’m not sure you’ve earned it yet.” Hopefully you’re smart enough to know what that implies.
So anyway, on the SS list, there was a lot of talk about how open loops are ineffective because they are so frustrating. What many fail to understand is that open loops are MEANT to be frustrating, and that is why they feel that way. Open loops create insecurity and anticipation, two very important factors in attraction. If you get pissed off when someone uses open loops on you, it means its working.
But there is an argument that people who intuitively use open loops end up creating an atmosphere around them that ultimately drives people away instead of attracting them, and therefor open loops should not be used. I think the important word here is “intuitive.” People who do this stuff intuitively are destined to mess it up because they do not have a conscious awareness of how this shit works.
Open loops are a way of creating drama. They are meant to rope other people into your reality by giving them just enough to get interested, and then taking it away so they actively pursue you.
When you have a conscious awareness of how open loops work, you can use them to attract people to you. When you do not, you can over use them and cause people to become frustrated and angry because they realize the hopelessness in their pursuit. Women tend to overuse this tactic because they are emotional creatures and easily distracted by stimuli (this is a bit of an over-generalization here, but I’ve found it is fairly accurate for attractive women). It also goes towards creating drama and turmoil in their personal lives, something many women crave and create.
I think the use of open loops is a valuable tool in seduction. I’ve seen some extremely talented Pick-Up Artists us it to great effect. But I tend to agree that if overused, any of these skills become ineffective and even detrimental to your pick-up. That’s part of the trick to being good at this, is knowing WHEN and HOW to use these tactics.
For more information on open loops, you can either try and catch reruns of Carnivale, or buy Swinggcat’s book at Real World Seduction.
Ho!
Thundercat
The Social Circle of Life
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Articles, Tips & Tricks
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03
Okay all you AFCs,
Here is a copy of my most recent article from Cliff’s List on Social Circles. Aside from the gay title, I think its pretty good. I’m still looking for my article on walk-ups. When I find that, I’ll post it.
Ho!
Thundercat
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The Social Circle Of Life
How to Create the Best Possible Environment for Getting Laid
An Essay by Tundercat
I’ll be the first to admit it. I’m a nerd. I like to watch TV, go to movies, read books, play on my computer, and even partake in the occasional MMORPG. But when I’m not waxing philosophical about who could kick who’s ass — Kirk or Han Solo — I’m out trying to pick up chicks.
The thing is, what I do is cold approaches. Cold Approaches are basically approaches where you approach a woman you do not know in the hopes of attracting her so you can lay her. Without a doubt, this is probably the hardest form of Pick-Up there is. Why? Well, for one thing, the Fear Factor on cold approaches is the highest. They don’t know you, you don’t know them, and the risk of getting rejected is high. This is one of the reasons many people cannot do cold approaches. It is just much too scary.
But the reason I do them is because I currently have no better option available to me. If I don’t cold approach a girl, I won’t meet any. But a funny thing happens if you cold approach enough girls. You become friends with them!
As strange as it sounds, it is true. Though the average Pick-Up Artist (PUA) is not looking to make friends with the girls he approaches, odds are if they like you enough to fuck you, you will become friends. And even if they don’t want to fuck you, the least they are willing to become is a friend because they enjoy your company enough.
This is a funny little side effect to approaching, and because of it, my eyes were opened to something. It’s a dirty little secret, yet one that is so obvious I am surprised that I did not see it before. Are you ready? Okay, here it is:
Most people get laid from their social circles.
This is a fact, my friends. Sure, cold approaching can lead to the occasional one night stand (ONS), or even a same day lay that blossoms into a relationship. But very rarely does this happen. In fact, it happens so rarely, that I really rate my approach success based on the quality of numbers I get. I say quality because anyone can get a number, but a number from a girl who actually gives you her REAL number and will actually RETURN your phone call is so much more important than the quantity of numbers one receives.
But of all the guys I hang around with who get laid, the ones who do so with the most frequency are those with large social circles that include women in them. For instance, I have a friend who is going to college. He belongs to a number of groups: Martial Arts, Role Playing, Historical Reenactment, etc. And he gets laid. He gets laid a LOT. Probably more than most PUAs, and DEFINITELY more than me. The funny thing is, this guy DOES NOT APPROACH! In fact, he’s just as scared at approaching women as 90% of the guys reading mASF (moderate Alt Seduction Fast) are.
When I noticed this, I took a good look at the guys I know who are getting laid frequently, and sure enough, there was the proof. They were all getting laid from either girls they already knew, or met through friends, family, or some type of hobby.
This is an incredible revelation for me because social circles have always been the primary dipping source for men I knew were getting laid. Back in my AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) days, I’d only hang out with my guy friends, who weren’t getting laid either. I’d do solitary activities, play on the computer, and take part in social activities that were typically heavily attended by males. In short, my social circle did not include women, and because of that, I did not get laid.
As my awareness of women grows, along with my seduction skills, I am beginning to realize that being a PUA is not just about getting laid, but cultivating a social circle conducive to interacting with women ON A DAILY BASIS.
Most of the men I have met who are not getting laid or who are struggling to get laid are the ones whose social circles are almost completely empty of women, and the women who do encompass their social circles do not interact with them regularly.
A scary truth about guys not getting laid is that they are not comfortable talking to women. Sometimes, I STILL do not feel comfortable talking to women. And this can show in your sarging (interacting with women with the intent of laying them). I am willing to bet that most guys who cannot talk to or approach women do not have many female friends in their social circles. And if they do, the girls are friends they would like to fuck. They do not know what it is like to truly be friends with a girl they do not want to sex up, and because of that, there is always a feeling of comfortableness just below the surface of their interaction with girls, which the girls can pick up on and which completely throws off the guy’s state.
So the trick is to expand your social circle so it becomes something that is conducive to getting you laid.
The fact is, a female friend is the most powerful tool you have in your seduction arsenal, especially if she is attractive. Approaching other women with another woman who can social proof you and talk you up is probably the single most invaluable trick there is to approaching. When you have a female with you who is actively working to HELP you get laid, chances are it will happen, and more quickly than if you were acting on your own. Not only that, but the girl will also have friends that she will try to hook you up with if you demonstrate youв’re cool enough to be her friend. Through these girls, you will find your comfort around women increase, along with you success rate.
So how do you do this? Well, the first step is to befriend a girl. How is this done? Well, most AFCs (Average Frustrated Chumps) have had a lot of experience with the “Let’s Just Be Friends” area of life. But this is not the same thing. The fact is, with the “Let’s Just Be Friends” stigma, you are not really the girl’s friend because you still want to fuck her and she knows it.
The best way I know how to expand your social circle is to befriend other GUYS who are good with women. Not the type of guys who use women and throw them away, but the type of guys who are fun and always surrounded by girls. You befriend this guy, and he will introduce you to the girls who surround them. You can meet these guys anywhere, and it’s much easier to approach and make friends with men because there is no sexual tension there. You guys can connect on basic male subjects such as sports, women, business, etc. If nothing else, you may make a new valuable male friend out of the deal.
You can meet these guys anywhere you go, be it a club, bar, museum, concert, etc. It doesn’t matter. You will meet them doing stuff you like to do. Most guys will go for the girls right away, but if you befriend the guy who is IN with the girls, he will help you to get them.
Once in with the guys, its time to move onto the girls. Have him introduce you. Tell the girls how good of a friend he is. Show them that you’re a cool guy. Become their friends. The cooler the guy you befriend, the hotter the women he knows. The hotter the women he knows, the better quality of women they will introduce you to.
The next step will take a bit of willpower on your part, but you want to actually BEFRIEND the girl with the knowledge that you are not going to sleep with her. No matter how hot she is, you must take her out of the “I wanna FUCK!” category. This is crucial because if you go after her for the full monty (fuck), you could screw up the friendship.
But once she’s your friend, you can practice on her. Talk to her, call her up and bullshit, go out with her, let her feel safe and comfortable around you. Once she’s your buddy, get her to introduce you to her friends. Those are the ones you game on. This is because you’ll be at an advantage with them. Not only will you have a girl who is their friend hyping you up, but you’ll also be social proofed by the guy you befriended, who has also probably met the girl you’re being introduced to. Right there is instant social proof that you’re cool enough to hang with them. Then its time to game the girl, which should be easier than cold approaching because the meeting is inherent.
But when it comes to cold approaching, the women you befriend become even more powerful. This is where the real fun can happen. You can use your female friends to approach other groups of people. You can introduce her to the men while she does the same for you with the women. Not only that, its natural social proof when you’re with a girl, and you feel more comfortable talking to women, which makes you more attractive.
In fact, this is so powerful that I know PUAs who’s entire game is based on Social Circles. A woman you use to help you get laid is often referred to as a “Pivot” or a “Pawn.” They are used as pieces on a chessboard to break down defenses and open doorways to score checkmate. One guy I know is SO effective with the girls in his social circle, that if there is a guy trying to get with a female friend of his, he will actually get the guy to pull him other chicks before he social proofs the guy with his friend. This is another great tactic, especially if you’re lazy about approaching. In this situation, not only are his pivots pulling other girls for him, but the guys after his pivots are as well. And in the end, all you’re getting is a bigger social circle which will make it easier to get laid.
It is very easy to befriend women, because when you make it clear you do not want to have sex with them, they can feel safe with you and allow you to “mess up” around them in practicing your PUA skills. Not only that, but being around women will teach you SO MUCH about pick-up, your game will rapidly increase.
In his book Real World Seduction, Swinggcat says “If you want to get good at picking-up women, surround yourself by five beautiful women who are good at getting guys.” This is important, because all the best PUAs just act like really hot chicks. They steal the chick frame that gets guys all into them and turn it around on the girls. The more you hang out with women, the more you will begin to incorporate this mindset into your seduction repertoire.
So friends, I recommend you go out there and start getting to know more girls in a non-sexual way. They will help you a great deal in adding some notches to your belt. I hope to expand my social circle massively in the coming future, so that I may also reap the benefits of having many lady friends.
Thundercat
Some Old Stuff…
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under News
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03
Okay, so I’ve been around a while and have a backlog of shit I can post here for your viewing pleasure. Some of it is old, but whatever, if it helps someone, it will be my pleasure to put it up. I sometimes write articles for Cliff’s List, which is the best newsletter there is on seduction. If you aren’t a subscriber, you’re missing out. You can sign up for it by sending an email here: cliff@be-relentless.com. Anyway, I’ll post any articles I write for Cliff here, along with any interesting advice I give to people in any of the mailing lists I’m on. Oh, a few field reports will be thrown in for good measure as well. =)
I’ll try and update this blog as often as I can. If any of you wanna help out by replying to my articles or anything, feel free. If you want to even send me field reports or articles, and I think they’re worth two pesos, I’ll even post them. Check back for more cool shit from the wide-world of “PUA!”
Ho!
Thundercat
It Begins…
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under News
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03
Mwuahahahahahahahaa!
It seems the revolution has begun. Well, only if you redefine revolution as “shit nobody cares about.” Maybe I’m being a bit hard on myself, I guess some people care — Hi mom!
Anyway, for those of you who don’t know me, my name is Thundercat. Well, that’s not my Christian name mind you. My mother and father did not play some cruel joke on me as a child and name me after some Saturday Morning Cartoon show. Actually, that’s my handle. Yes, in the comfy anonymous blanket of cyberspace, I am known as THUNDERCAT. A handle I picked for myself once I entered a little subculture known as “The Seduction Community.”
The Seduction Community is basically a group of guys ranging from hopeless losers to incredibly successful and cool men who have all come together for one purpose — to learn how to meet, attract, and fuck women.
Yes, that’s right. There are actually groups of guys who are studying how to do this, and I’m one of them.
A little background on myself: I’ve been in “the game” (yes, that’s what its actually referred to as) since 1998. I was a sophomore in college at the time, and pretty much the most pathetic loser you’ve ever met. I was upwards of 300 lbs, with knappy ass hair, horrible acne, and the most bitter and angry attitude you can imagine. One Friday night, I ordered a Papa John’s pizza and sat around watching reruns of Threes Company on Nick-At-Night while my frat boy room mate went out partying with some of the hottest chicks I’d ever seen in my life.
So there I was, 300 lbs, a piece of pizza in one hand and my cock in the other as I jerked off to Suzan Summers back when she was somewhat hot, and it was at that point I had an epiphany…
I needed to kill myself.
No, this wasn’t just some passing fancy, like “Gee, maybe I should buy some more milk and maybe kill myself.” This was a very real thought. The whole patheticness of the situation descended upon me like a fat chick doing a belly flop. What I was doing was laughable, and I knew it. I broke down and start to cry, throwing the mother of all tantrums and trashing my dorm room in a blind fit of rage. After it was all over and I was sobbing quietly in the corner, I knew I had only two options available to me:
1. Really kill myself.
2. Get laid.
Now, there were good arguments for both options at the time. But for some reason the second seemed more attractive. I figured if I could get my dick wet, maybe even get a girlfriend, my life wouldn’t suck so much. However, if I actually knew how to accomplish this task I wouldn’t be in this predicament in the first place.
So I went online and looked up “dating” on yahoo. Nothing really helpful popped up. Then I tried typing in “seduction.” Boom. A hit. Right before my eyes came up two simple words: “Speed Seduction.” A system created by Ross Jeffries that teaches guys how to seduce women using Neuro-Linguistic Programming (ie: hypnosis) to mind fuck them into sleeping with you. It was an interesting concept, and I was desperate, so I spent my last $250 from my summer job and bought the fuckin’ Basic Home Seduction course.
From that point on, I was a loyal speed seducer, diligently studying the BHSC, telling girls they were “shining examples of genetic perfection,” and buying many other products such as — The Unstoppable Confidence Tapes, The Methods and Masters CDs, and Bishop’s Journal.
From ’98 on, I studied SS in a vacuum. I was too ashamed to tell my friends I was trying to learn how to hypnotize chicks into wetting my man-worm, so it was my dirty little secret until I got out of college and moved to LA in 2002. It was then that I started the Los Angeles Speed Seduction Lair due to the prompting of my friend Brother Kermit, a fellow Speed Seducer I met on the SS Email list who had been mentoring me in the creepy art of seduction. He was very involved in the Montreal lair and suggested I meet other bros in the community who could help my game.
So I started the Lair in LA. It was a rough going, since LA was so spread out and attendance erratic. But I did make some good solid friendships out of it, and I guess my name started spreading around. Anyway, around this time one of my lair members informed me of a new club in Los Angeles called PLAY (Players Los Angeles Yahoo group). It was basically the same thing as my lair, only it covered ALL forms of seduction and pick-up. Interested in attending their meeting, I called up the head of PLAY, an asian dude by the name of Papa.
Papa had heard of me and my work in the LA Lair, so he invited me to attend the LA Mystery Method Workshop for free as a guest. Interested in the prospect of seeing something new and fresh, I decided to attend. I had heard of Mystery from fastseduction.com, but was not aware he taught actual in field workshops.
The attending of the MM Workshop was a definite changing point in my life. Until that seminal event, I was steeped in an SS mindset, one which I am convinced helped me conquer my inner game, but prevented me from increasing my outer game. Mystery Method was a very “shit or get off the pot” style of pick-up. One that is not very conducive to mental masturbation or excuses. You either approach the girl, or you don’t. You either lay her, or you don’t. Period.
Well, thanks to those amazing 3 days of hard core in-field study, I broke through my walk-up barrier and became an approach machine. My newfound ability to talk to women I just met, in addition to my years of study in SS, helped me to very quickly step up my game to a place where I am fairly successful at this point in my life.
I have also met, hung out with, and sarged with some of the best in the community. This includes Swinggcat, Papa, Tyler Durden, Mystery, Style, Craig, Road King, Zan, Maddash, Christophe, Little Big Dick, Orion, Harmless, Clifford, Sick Boy, The One, Dreamweaver, Ross Jeffries, Alphamale, J-Dog, Masterclass, Herbal, 26, Merovingian, and a variety of other people with ridiculous made-up names just like me. =)
My associations with these guys has not only drastically improved my game, but given me incredible insight into this sick, petty, amazing, wonderful, scary, funny, sad, and incredibly fascinating community I’ve become a part of. So much so, that I’ve become a bit of a “celebrity” because of my association with various individuals and e-mail lists where I am usually one of the few posting advice that makes some semblance of sense.
I am also a member of Mystery’s Lounge, an invite-only message board reserved for some of the best of the best when it comes to seduction and pick-up artistry. Through Mystery’s Lounge, I have met some incredible people and made some extraordinary friends. But a while back there was a bit of a dispute on the board, one which I felt destroyed the sense of community that had existed up to that point, and one in which Mystery himself instigated. I voiced my displeasure with his decision, and he reponded back to me with something along the lines of:
“If you want to be in the Alpha crowd, you gotta be alpha. if not, branch off of the lounge and make your own lounge.”
Well, I don’t want to make my own lounge. I really don’t want to deal with the trouble of “competing” with Mystery or ASF or any other online seduction forum. In fact, I could care less what other people think/feel/say about any of this stuff anymore, simply because I realized that the more about this stuff I read, the less I actually learned.
I’ve started THUNDERCAT’S LAIR not to compete with anybody, or prove anybody wrong, or make anybody look like a fool or a fake. Rather, I created it to share my experiences with others in a format where I do not feel like I am subject to other people’s approval in order to advance. What you will see on this site will be my own thoughts, feelings, and experiences and I advance in my never ending quest to get pussy.
I can’t promise you that it will always be interesting, or enlightening, or even helpful. All I can say is that it will be the truth as I see it from my experiences.
That is a promise.
And that is why they call me…
Thundercat
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