The SS List — Beating a Dead Horse

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**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/17/03

For years, the Speed-Seduction list has been in operation. For a while, it was awesome. There was a real influx of talented seducers there coming up with “nuclear” stuff to use on chicks. Things like “The Warmth Builder,” “Riker’s 3 Rules,” and the amazing “takeaway” abounded. But then the star student turned out to be a con man and one of Ross’s fallen angels went off and started up the competition. Not only that, but fastseduction.com and mASF opened things up for more than just Ross’s products. Since that time, the SS list has endured, but it is a shadow of what it used to be.

Like Freddy screaming at Jason, whenever I open my e-mail to find posts from the SS list in there, I can’t help but yell at the screen “WHY WON’T YOU DIE???!!!!” And then proceed to delete 99.9% of the posts, occasionally reading one that catches my eye until I realize why it is that I bother to delete most of these posts, and then proceed to kill that one as well.

The thing is, even though the SS list isn’t what it used to be, SS isn’t what it used to be either. Gone are the days where you could memorize 40 patterns and steamroll a girl into a subnamuble trance and start fondling her right away. The new SS has degenerated into tailoring shit to the girl you are seducing, which cuts your success rate down to 30% at the least. Because of this, most of the guys who have progressed in their game have opted to leave SS behind for greener pastures. What does this mean?

Simple. There are no “good” seducers on the SS list anymore. It truly is the blind leading the blind, with newbies who haven’t even finished listening to the BHSC giving advice to other newbies, therefore insuring nobody really knows what they are doing. The fact that some of the best threads on there are discussing shit that was brought up in Swinggcat’s book doesn’t help matters.

What I’m wondering is — will it get any better? Will Ross lock himself away in a closet for 6 months and re-emerge with a new form a Speed Seduction — one that actually WORKS and is a viable alternative to DYD, MM, and any of the other 6 billion forms of PUA that have sprung up since the good ol’ days? Will SMART people actually join the SS list and start posting good shit again? Or should this list be killed or die quietly? Honestly, I haven’t seen ANYTHING good come from that list since the days Bishop was posting, and he made up all his shit. Kind of says something doesn’t it?

I think my biggest problem with the SS list comes from the fact that there are actually guys out there who are genuinely in need of help and wanting to learn, and they look at all the crap that’s passing for advice on this list because they don’t know any better, and it only ends up making their situation worse because they follow the poor advice that is given. In fact, most recently, the only person on there I’ve seen give somewhat good advice is Tom Vizzini (when he’s not hocking 3D Mind or any of that other crap, that is).

I hope Ross wakes up to the fact that his list is slowly degenerating into what Apple became in the 80s and early 90s, which is a steaming pile of crap, a shell of what it once was. I hope he starts putting some quality control on his list and his products, and starts dealing with the REALITY of seduction instead of the idealized NLP version of it. I hope he actually steps up to the plate and starts teaching guys what they need to know instead of fairy tales. But then again, that may be too much work.

In the meantime, I’ll just keep deleting my SS posts.

Thundercat

Rave Reviews on ASF

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03

Okay, so back at the DYD seminar in Chicago, I was tapped to be a guest instructor at the Papa/TD/Orion workshop. It was the first time I had ever really gone out instructing people in a “professional” capacity. I mean, I’ve been out bootcamping some local guys on Sunset here in LA, but this was a workshop people were paying for, so I felt a certain pressure to do my best with helping the students to learn.

Anyway, I was referred to a review of the workshop one of the student’s put up on ASF. The review is pretty good and fairly accurate from what I remember, even if the guy’s observations about the instructors are a bit off.

Anyway, here’s what he writes about me:

“I meet up with Thundercat. Very cool dude. He says “Go approach that set. Say ‘female opinion: who lies more, men or women?’, then come back.” I do just that, chat the 3-set up for a few minutes more, then return to him for more assignments. He says “Go tell that girl on the dancefloor ‘Settle down! you’re going to make the other girls jealous!’” I do. Girl responds very well. Then she gives me a salute and yes “Yes, Sir!” She’s smiling big and into it. I go back for more assignments. Thundercat says go open 3 more sets with the opinion opener. I open two more sets. One girl avoided me, as she was ordering a drink. I return, tell Thundercat what happened. He asks how I feel. I said I hate being blown out, but that I feel fine and it’s not going to prevent me from approaching more.” No big deal he says. If it doesn’t work well, just say “nice meeting you” to leave the door open for future sarges with her.

I really wish we had time to give a background of ourselves at the lecture, but there wasn’t time in the mini-workshop. I think all the instructors think all the students are AFCs. I wish I had told Thundercat about my experience, as I was hanging in sets well, but I figured, Hell, I’m here to learn what these guys have to teach, so I want to use their openers, their techniques. I was hoping for more advanced assignments from him like “go get a kiss from that girl within 5 minutes!” That would have been cool, but he was off working with other students by then.”

LOL. Go kiss a girl in 5 minutes! Most of these guys can’t even TALK to women, let alone kiss them. But this dude definitely stood out as someone who was comfortable in a club scene. I do remember him being a bit more upset about getting blown out than he made it out to be. He came up stuttering and looking a bit flustered, so I pulled him to the side and calmed him down. If his writing style says anything about him, its that he could be a real presence on ASF if he ups his field outtings. You can read the whole thread here:

http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?118549,24

I find it a fascinating read because it came from a truly neutral source. This was a dude who didn’t know any of us, least of all me, yet he gave me good reviews on my teaching style. I guess there’s a twinge of pride there, knowing I help someone out. Though Chicago for me sucked. One thing that became painfully obvious was that if I’m teaching other guys how to pick-up, I can’t do any pick-ups myself. It was terrible, and its for that reason why I will probably never teach at an actual in-field workshop again. It was a good experience, I’m glad I did it, but its too much work not to get paid for.

I know Harmless has talked about bringing me in as a guest speaker/instructor when he starts his workshops, but I’m on the fence about doing it right now. We’ll have to wait and see I suppose. It depends on how my finances are doing at the time.

Thundercat