Style is Out of the Closet

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**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 1/24/04

For some reason, local mASF dooshbag mmasters thinks he’s being smart by outting the identity of the writer for the NYT article, like it’s some big discovery or conspiracy theory or something.  This guy must have some odd homosexual obsession with Style, due to the sheer ammount of time he spends trying to expose the dude.  You can find his rather stupid thread here.

Thundercat

Update:  It seems that the link I’ve posted above has been taken down from mASF by Formhandle at Style’s request.

Mystery on the NYT Article

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 1/24/04

Word has it that Mystery sent out an e-mail after the article hit expressing his displeasure with it and how he was portrayed in it.  He didn’t really seem to like how he came off, but seems to have resigned himself to the fact that he got blindsided into looking like a moe.  Herbal, who’s currently one of Mystery’s roommates, has gone on mASF to try a little damage control.  His post explains a lot, and I have no reason to doubt what he says, but still… seems like Mystery might be a bit hurt by how he came off looking in the write up.

Thundercat

Ban $$$Feminator$$$?

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 1/23/04

So Feminator is at it again with his rediculous posting of even more rediculous $$$$$$$ advice.  A few of the mASF regulars have gotten fed up with Fem’s unique brand of signal-to-noise ratio and asked the new mASF moderator (Moderator1 — creative, huh?) to flat out ban the dude on the grounds of ”Dating Ray Gordon.”  Anyway, Moderator1 responded in a very diplomatic way and said he’d let Formhandle know about it, since Fem’s presence does seem to be causing a disruption.

You can read about it here.

Thundercat

Flame War Blues

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 1/23/04

Vince Runza started a good topic on the ”Off Topic” board of mASF today addressing the recent flame war between TD and Ross, which I referenced in my post Tyler Durden vs. Ross Jeffries — Battle of the Century.  He addresses some good points about the validity of flame wars in general, and we get a couple good replies from NextLevelUp2000 and Scoob that actually serve as a reminder that integrity does still exist on the mASF boards.

When it comes to flame wars, no one really wins IMO.  The flamer always comes off as being an insecure asshat, and the person responding to the flames ends up being baited into the flamer’s reality so they’re dragged down to his level.  Ross sucked me in just as he sucked in Tyler, so I guess the jokes on us in the long run.  If you haven’t noticed, the Speed Seduction LA seminar is this weekend.  It’s been a long standing tradition of Ross’s to start a flamefest before every one of his events to draw attention to himself and, by definition, his seminar.  Just one of the man’s marketing tactics I suppose, but I think it hurts him in the long run just because he comes off as such a bad guy.  You don’t see David D running around accusing people of stealing his material do you?  Instead of flaming Tyler, David interviewed the guy and had him speak at one of his seminars.  Now that’s good business.

If Ross keeps this up, we’ll see the quality of Speed Seduction decline further as he pushes more and more talent away from him and into David D’s hands.  Its too bad, because SS has some great stuff to offer.  I’m interested in taking one of Riker’s workshops, just to see if there’s more substance and less bullshit to what he teaches.

Thundercat

Tyler Durden vs. Ross Jeffries — Battle of the Century

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 1/22/04
**Image removed

Well, I guess this isn’t surprizing to anyone.  With TD’s star on the rise and Ross’s on the fall, they were bound to meet somewhere along the way.  There’s a thread on mASF where Tyler was responding to a poster about overpowering realities, and Ross decides to step up and bully TD, calling him, of all things, a guy who uses other people’s material and teaches it like he came up with it (I’m sure if Bandler were to read this, he’d laugh).  So of course, TD tries to be diplomatic about it while using a few backhanded negs to AMOG Ross into submission, but Ross just keeps pounding away with the tactfulness of a chainsaw.

In a way, the post is a really fun read.  It’s the online equivalent of watching a wrestling match.  I liken it to a Chris Benoit vs. Randy MachoMan Savage match.  One is a really superb technical wrestler who knows his stuff and could probably do some real damage if he put his mind to it.  The other is an over the hill blowhard with a lot of showy moves and fan-fare, but is a really ineffective wrestler.  The only real question is:  Who’s Benoit and who’s Savage?

You can click here to enjoy the drama.

Thundercat

Update:  It seems it’s quickly turning from TD vs. Ross to Thundercat vs. Ross as he takes more and more offence at my replies in the thread.  I respect Ross a great deal (the man did save my life with his product), but he can be a real cock when those insecurities bubble up.  For some reason he keeps referencing my father like he knows my family.  Creepy.

Appology to Tyler

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 1/14/04

So my little post about Tyler a few days ago has stirred up a bit of controversy.  I consider Tyler a friend, so I didn’t think much about criticizing his game a bit.  I’ve been out with the guy a few times now and have gotten to see how tight his game is first hand, and there’s no doubt about it that he’s good — in fact I’d go so far to say that he’s one of the best.  However, in all fairness, I have been out of touch with TD for a while and that probably affected how I wrote about him.  I talk to a lot of people because of this blog, both through emails and over the phone, and I am able to gather a good deal of information from others, and some of my information from people in DC, Seattle, and LA went towards influencing what I wrote about Tyler’s use of ”gay-isms” and how it had a negative impact on his game.

This was pretty irresponsible of me, because in all honesty, I was operating on a picture of what others had given me as opposed to what I had seen myself.  I didn’t realize that the post was so off base until I got this response from Tyler, which he’s given me permission to repost here:

---

Some clarifications:
 
-I get laid as much as anyone right now, if not more – maybe the most in the entire scene in the past 2 months.
 
-I have flaking down perfect.  My flaking game is stupid tight.
 
-I can do daytime PU as well as anyone in this scene.  Clubs, daytime, whatever.  ”Club atmosphere” is not a factor.  I will run the best daytime PU you’ve ever CONCEIVED, let alone seen.
 
-I play the gay angle sometimes, and other times I don’t.  I also play that I’m rich sometimes, and other times I don’t.  I say that I’m in a rockband sometimes, and other times I don’t.  It’s something that’s used at times.  Not the core of my game.  On workshops, I may use it more often, because I am surrounded by 15 newbies who are making the girls uncomfortable.
 
-Speculation about my ”long game” is wrong.  Dead wrong.  My late game is super tight.  My day 2 is super tight.  My comfort building is super tight.  My phone game is super tight.  Noticing a pattern?  Don’t speculate, man.
 
I’d say nothing about this, if it were true, but this is plain inaccuarate and misleading.  I’d appreciate it if you’d take it down, and write up something new next time we hang out.  Expect that you’ll also be updating your top 10 PUA list…

---

So I’m man enough to admit when I’m wrong, so here it is:  I was wrong.  I’m sure Tyler is quite correct in his representation of himself, and I appologize for saying what I did.  In many ways I’m still learning the dangers of putting all my thoughts on such a public forum.  I already learned the negative effects it can garner since I got Kicked and Banned from all of Speed Seduction after speaking out about the sorry state of it’s e-mail list.  This blunder was especially rough because Tyler is a friend, and I didn’t mean to hurt the guy’s feelings.  In the future I’ll have to remember to keep my writings about what I know as opposed to what I hear.

Thundercat

Papa was a Rolling Stone…

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 1/10/04

Well, it seems like this little blog is getting quite a bit of exposure.  Not only has it garnered the attention of Ross Jeffries, Double Your Dating, and Mystery, but also the mainstream press.

Let me ask you guys this… if you were contacted by a reporter from Rolling Stone Magazine who wanted to interview you for an article on seduction, what would you do?  I’m not sure what I’d do, because I tend not to trust reporters.  But at the same time, its a bit exciting to think that you’re important enough to be written about, particuarly in the same publication which launched some of the biggest carreers in the music business.  Such is the power of pop-culture, I suppose.

Its situations like this that make me think about why I started the blog in the first place.  I don’t really care to get famous or reknown for it.  I’m not interested in being an ASF "guru."  In all honestly, there are many many guys out there who are better with women and get laid with more regularity than I do.  And I know for a fact that you’ll be hearing about these guys in the mainstream media fairly soon.  So I keep needing to ask myself what I’m going to do when this opportunity is presented to me.  I mean, its cool to help out other guys and get lots of e-mails every day asking for advice and stuff, but I can’t help but feel like what I’m doing is being misconstrued a bit.

I’m putting up my thoughts and experiences publically because it helps keep me focused, and because I’m hoping what I go through will help someone else overcome a similar problem.  So would I agree to a Rolling Stone interview?  What would I talk about other than what I think about other people in the community?  About my many failures with women?  About restructuring my lifestyle and recent breakthroughs?  About the last time I got laid and why its so infrequent for me?  All that is pretty stupid stuff, especially for a magazine like Rolling Stone.  I can’t really come up with anything that would be worth being interviewed by such a major publication.

Then again, it’s fun to think about.  What do you guys think?

Thundercat

Seduction in the News

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 1/8/04

FYI:

There may be some attention coming to the community via the mainstream press fairly soon, directed primarilly toward’s Mystery’s camp.

Thundercat

24HRS Reveals His Psychosis

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/29/03

A while back, I posted about this dude 24HRS who’s trying to make a name for himself Mmasters style by flaming Tyler Durden on ASF.  At first I thought this guy was funny, but now its just plain obvious he’s a psycho.  He decided to re-post the private e-mail that Formhandle deleted from the board, and another series of flames ensued.  My thoughts on the matter are pretty much summed up by Neo-Rio’s post, which was:

*************************************************
Topic: TD/Papa e-mail reposted….. (8 of 17), Read 632 times   
Conf: >> General 
From: Neo-Rio riobaan@hotmail.com 
Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 01:36 AM   

Oh shit, Ray got in here……
*************************************************

If you want to read all the psychosis, you can find it all here:

http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?121053,8

Thundercat

Feminator Returns

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/22/03

We all have our favorite loonies that post on mASF.  I know Tyler is fond of one dude in particular, and Stevie PUA has his personal fav.  Mine is FEMINATOR.  His massive need for qualification and aspirations for guru-hood in a community that accounts for less than 0.0000000001% of the population is nothing short of entertaining.  Recently, he took a bit of a powder after his last $$$$$$ post broke the camel’s back and caused a number of flames pointed his way (I mean honestly, the signal to noise ratio was just too high).  Anyway, his absence was noticed, leading to posts such as this one by zane:

Topic: Where did FERMINATOR go? (1 of 1), Read 131 times
Conf: >> General
From: zane
Date: Monday, December 22, 2003 12:25 PM

WTF happened to all that MONEY shit from Ferminator???

IS he still ,alive??

But apparently, he spoke too soon, because FEMINATOR is back, with a vengeance.  Here’s his latest $$$$$$$ post for your enjoyment:

Topic: FEMINATOR IS BACK! MALL’S ARE MONEY (1 of 13), Read 417 times
Conf: >> General
From: feminator 15081978@bluewin.ch
Date: Sunday, December 21, 2003 05:45 PM

After clubbing a lot for many years i realized, that clubs are not a good place for meeting top quality women, because they have always the whole defense up.

-Bitch shields (because they expect it)
-Anti slut defense (because of other people, they know)
-Girlfriends (girlscode, drag away)
-AMOGS and BF

Other important facts are …

-Bad chick ratio
-Not every chick goes to the clubs.
-Too many man
-Drugs, alcohol etc.
-Drinks and clubs are not cheap
-Loud music
-At fuck close time, it’s often already 4-6 AM
-Chicks are sometimes also tired in clubs and therefore you can’t game them, especially on Friday.

I also realized, that in clubs are not a lot of possibilities to do interesting things, except sarging.

For somebody, who doesn’t drink, smoke, take drugs or dance, the clubs are a boring place…

Sarging remains the only reason for going to clubs…

Of course it’s possible to game them in clubs, but i found a far better place to find much more and better chicks.

*****************************************************
**********The shopping malls are $$$**********************
*****************************************************

-Good chick ratio. Every chick goes to the malls…

-Chicks are often isolated in shopping malls, therefore no bitch shields or ASD.

-Chicks are not tired and easier to game

-Fuck close time is normally after 8 PM, when the malls close here in Zurich, instead of 4 – 6 AM, so i have more time for good sex.

-Often no negative girlscode.

-Very likely no BF or AMOGS.

-Good insta date possibilities like …
… Shopping together

Then when the malls close at 8 PM …
… Cinema is at 8.30 PM
… After work parties from 7 PM
… Lunch or dinner

My latest opener …

… I prepared a paper bag in a way, i can open the bottom and everything falls on the floor. Haha, they always help me to collect all the things.

… I also prepared a suitcase in the same way. I often put pictures of my hottest GF. When they help me collecting the picture, i tell them the story about my Ex-Girlfriend, who went to London for modelling … Hahah, they always help me to collect the pictures.

… I also create instant accident with cans, clothes etc.
For example I prepare a can tower in a way, that all the cans fall on the floor, when the HB passes. Then she feels guilty. Of course i help her then. (Not field tested)

I create a small accident with some cans and boxes. They always help me to collect the cans. (Field tested)

Then i tell them:”Do you believe in the destiny?”
HB:”Bla bla.”
FEM:”If you look back in 2 years to this day, you will realize, that just of a couple of cans, you whole live changed. My name is Feminator from ASF ”

I do a lot of opinion opener …

“Hey HB (‘s) i need a quick female opinion ….

It opens always. Often i add, that the saleswomen are bad girls, because they lie… Then i tell them a funny story about a really bad saleswomen. Or i ask them, if they are a saleswomen. If they say no, i say:”Very good, because i need a neutral female opinion…”

Or can you help me opener …

“Hey HB i need your help …”

“Do you know, where …”

On the shopping mall insta date, i have always a lot of fun. For example, we check out new clothes together. Then venue change to another mall (Foot in the door principle, are you adventurous enough, then cinema or bar)

In busy times i sarge the customers. In quiet times i sarge the saleswomen, which i use also next time, when it’s busy for social proof.

PS: WHEN WILL BE THE RELEASE OF TFM 2.0 ???????????????? I heard in an old post from PORNHANDLE 25.12.03.
****************************************************

If you want to read the whole thread, it can be found at:

http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?120723,8

The thing I find funny about the above post that poor old FEM doesn’t seem to get — in fact, a lot of people don’t seem to get this — is that you should not be going out in the world with the specific intent to “Pick-Up.”  That’s lame.  That’s one of the reasons I laugh at SS nowadays.  Who wants to go to a coffee shop/grocery store/yoga class or whatever just to meet women?  I find that incredibly stupid.

If I’m going to a coffee shop, its to get coffee.  If I go to a grocery store, its to get groceries.  If I’m going to a yoga class (which I would never do) its to learn yoga.  And if I go to a mall, its to shop.  Any sarging to be done is strictly Targets of Opportunities.  As far as bars/clubs go, I do not SPECIFICALLY go out to bars and clubs to sarge.  I go there to have fun, and to me, part of the fun is trying to pick-up chicks — being social.

This realization came upon me when I was in Chicago and got to see Zan, Craig, and Maddash out on the town.  These guys did not go to these bars to “sarge” or “pick-up.”  They went out there to hang out together, get drunk, and have fun.  The by-product of that was picking-up on chicks.  When I have gone out and just been social, (i.e. drinking, dancing, talking, laughing, ball-busting — what have you) I have been SO MUCH MORE successful than going out with the SPECIFIC intent to sarge.

That’s something guys who are new at this don’t quite have an understanding of yet.  A lot of this comes from “inner game.”  It’s that bit about being “desire-less.”  Not wanting what you really want.  Its fucked-up, yes, but in a way its necessary to feel that way if you want to get REALLY good at it.  Its almost like saying “Just be yourself.”  The trick is, you have to first BECOME the kind of person who naturally does this, and THAT is the hard part.  That is what no in-field workshop or phone consultation or hypnosis will teach you.

I’ve spent 4 years working on my inner game, and I’m just now feeling that its at the point where I’m actually starting to change.  4 YEARS, fellas.  I’ve had to wade through a lot of deep psychological shit to get to where I am now.  We’re talking things that would have made Freud ditch coke for heroine, its so fucked-up.  But it all works out.

I’ll probably talk about this more in an article I plan on writing on Inner Game.  The more people I meet who are genuinely good at this, the more I realize it has to do with inner game and where you’re coming from.  So many people just want the next new “trick” or “method” or whatever.  Look at this Feminator guy for crying out loud.  He’s all about the gimmicks, the tricks, the routines, etc.  What he fails to understand is that all that stuff springs forth from your inner self.  I’ve seen some guys who have TONS of shit memorized, and they can do a pick-up quite well, but when it comes to Day 2, or Day 3, or even RELATIONSHIPS, they lose the chick, because they run out of material.  They don’t have their inner game congruent with their outter game.

Enough rambling.  I’ll post my inner game article here when I get done with it.

Thundercat

PS:  Just remembered, I should probably thank Swinggcat for a lot of this.  He’s very much into the whole “inner game” thing and it has been the subject of many conversations I’ve had with him.  In fact, it probably wouldn’t be on my mind as much if it wasn’t for him, even though I’ve been very much into it since my return from Las Vegas.  Maybe he’ll do something on it in an upcoming newsletter which will blow anything I write on it out of the water.  =)

New Retard on mASF

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/20/03

Yes, it would appear there is a NEW retard to add to the list of mASF goofballs.  First there was Ray Gordon, then there was Gunwitch, then the infamous Mmasters, and now ladies and gentlemen, I present to you — 24 HRS!

Apparently he stirred up some drama on mASF by posting private emails from Tyler and Papa concerning how many girls each one has laid.  Obviously, this is best summed up by ijjjji’s reply, which was simply:

“Drama queen! Eat shit and die!”

So if you’re interested in reading the latest drama on mASF, the link is:

http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?120377,8

Thundercat

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