How To Treat Women When A Sarge Goes Bad

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**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/31/03

Okay, so let’s talk about something that will inevitably happen to everyone who actually gets out in the field from time to time, and that’s what to do when things go bad in a sarge.

This was a topic that was brought up and caught my eye on the SS list before I got Kicked and Banned from it. There was a guy who basically asked what you do if you go after a girl at a place you frequent, mess up, and keep seeing her again and again at that location and feel awkward about it.

This really comes down to two things in my opinion:

1.) Field experience
2.) Ability to read body language and IOIs

Something that comes with field experience is learning how to guage the level of interest the girl has with you. If she’s dropping Indicators of Interest (pupil dialation, logical rapport building questions, lots of kino, etc) then chances are good she will give you contact information, like a number, if you ask for it. Lots of guys will go for the number close after they have mild interest from the girl, and will continue pushing the subject after the girl refuses, which only reinforces their position NOT to give you the number.

One thing I try never to do (though sometimes I slip up and do it anyways) is ask a girl for her number. The guys who are good at this that I have observed rarely ask for any contact info. Often times, they will leave it up to the girl to ask for their number or offer her’s. Sometimes they have to prod the girls to do it, but if the women are interested, they’ll follow their lead.

One thing you don’t want to do is keep persisting like perviously mentioned. That’s too strong a sign of neediness. Best to let it blow by if they refuse and end it with a “Pleasure meeting you.” If she does frequent the club regularly, then chances are you’ll run into her again eventually anyway so you’ll have another chance at meeting her. This is something I know the mighty Zan does all the time. He will NEVER ask for a number, and simply relies on seeing the same girl again as a way to re-establish contact.

One thing most guys will do if they mess up with a girl is to ignore them if they see them again. I think ignoring girls who’ve snubbed you in the past is a bad move. I personally will at least go up to them and do a short set, re-esablish contact, be friendly, and move on. Let them know that their rejection did not hurt me and that I wasn’t just after the lay. It’s also a “gentle persistence” tactic I’ve picked up from watching a few other guys operate. Primoman is VERY good at this. If they see you/talk to you enough, you become harmless in their eyes and can fly under their radar, so to speak, and renew the sarge.

So what’s the best way to keep from messing up a sarge? Well, probably the best way is to know your shit! But since field work is really the only way to do that, you’re gonna have to brush up on the theory. Basically, you can do a couple things to prevent mess-ups from happening, but they all have to do with:

1. Raising your value
2. Creating a need for your validation within the girl
3. Creating challenges and obstacles for that validation

The best method for doing this in my opinion is the Swinggcat Method, but Mystery Method is also very good at this type of thing, which is probably why I rate them as the two best systems out there right now.

Where most guys often mess up is with the “creating challenge” part. Your average dude starting this stuff might try some inactive disinterest tactic where he walks around acting like a player in the hopes that the girl will notice and be enraptured with his “player-hood.” This very rarely works since most girls will assume you’re not interested if you aren’t talking to them, and if you haven’t captured their attention enough to chase you, they will generally leave you to your own devices.

Basically, offering challenges comes down to being difficult with a girl the same way a hot girl would be difficult with a guy who’s chasing her. Little things like not doing what she wants, teasing her, cracking jokes about her, takeaways, intentional undermining, and not taking her shit go a long way to creating this challenge. You can even get more advanced and create those “tension loops” Swinggcat talked about in his last newsletter, which are excellent ways of creating challenges.

You see, the distinction isn’t that you’re creating challenges for HER to overcome in order to get YOU, rather, YOU BECOME a challenge to HER normal view of reality, and that intrigues her to figure you out. If a girl percieves a guy as being a “player,” I’ve found they’ll simply opt to let him play his games while she finds some other chump who’ll play her’s. However, if a guy can successfully destroy a girl’s current reality and suck her into his reality where she has to struggle to understand his actions, she will start the process of attraction right then and there, and that’s basically what challenges are meant to do.

Another area where guys can mess up doing this stuff is in Day-2 game, where they get back together with the girl. Many newbies have trouble overcoming the “date” frame where they take a girl out. They just simply don’t know what to do differently and end up falling into AFC-traps from before. All I do is ask them to join me for an activity I’m already doing. You still are technically “dating” the girl, but just be sure that you aren’t paying all the bills (I say keep it to under $30) and its an activity that you like to do anyway, regardless of how she views it. She’s just a guest tagging along with you. You also want to use multiple venues in your outting as a time distortion tactic to build trust and comfort, rather than just staying in one place the whole time.

That’s what “structuring opportunities” is. Its simply giving her chances to be with you. But rather than putting it in the frame of “I want you, please go out with me,” you want to approach it as “I’m gonna go have fun and you can come if you want.” This is a trick I picked up from my buddy MasterClass, so props to him for sharing the wealth! =)

Okay, enough inane rambling for one post. Hope some of you get something from this.

Thundercat

Mama Mia

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/31/03
**Image removed

In their continuing quest to torture me while I’m home, my parents dragged me and my brothers out to see the Washington DC production of the hit musical "Mama Mia" at the National Theater today.  They first told me of this excursion about 10 minutes after I got off the plane about a week ago.  Now, I’m not a big fan of musicals, especially ones that have to do with weddings, so I told them I didn’t particuarly want to see that play.  What was their responce?

"You have no choice."

Yep.  My parent’s literally TOLD me I had no choice in the matter.  And they were right, I didn’t.  My mother started laying down the guilt trips on my brothers and I immediately after we expressed our disinterest, eventually forcing us to go.

So we went, and the play was so-so.  The story was pretty stupid, the acting sub-par, and there were only a few songs that were any good in my opinion (I was never a big fan of Abba to begin with).  However, the thing that surprized me the most was the number of WOMEN at the show!  Seriously, there were some really good looking women at the National Theater tonight, and there were TONS of them.  Many of the women were their with their girlfriends, and there were very few men there who weren’t with their family or under the age of 40.

I noticed a lot of chicks there who are what I dub "theater whores."  These are girls who I used to go after in high school where my excessive need for validation lead me to join the theater club.  These are girls who are escapist junkies.  They love to go to the theater for the thrill of it — to get caught up in the lights, glamour, fantasy, song, etc.  They’re the theater equivalent of the "party girls" that you find in bars, looking for the next high (a-la Tyler’s Post).  All you need to do is start talking to them about how great the play is and BOOM!  They’re yours, you’ve opened.  Quick & easy.  And the best part of it is that they are HIGHLY suggestible women, especially since they are into fantasy and escapism.

There are also quite a number of decent looking older women who go to these musicals and plays, all of which desperately need attention.  Another thing I love about it is that these "theater whores" are also usually failed or wannabe actresses, who are SO easy to seduce, because they are naturally suggestable.

This got me thinking that once I get back to LA, I might start attending more theater events.  LA has a large number of small playhouse productions every weekend where you can go and meet these types of women.  Not only that, but at small enough venues, you can even talk to the actresses, which is great because they are attention whores to the fullest and willing to cling to anybody who gives them the least bit of validation.  So I’ll be sure to experiment with this even more.

Also, throw in the "tourist factor" with theater events, and you’ve got some really good prospects.  In fact, I’m quite jealous of guys in New York right now because they probably have the best "theater whores" in the nation to pick on.  Oh well.

I’ll be sure to post field reports of this shit once I’m back to LA and into my old life again.

Thundercat

Homecoming Delayed

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/31/03

Just a quick note:

I discovered today that I will not be returning to Los Angeles until the 4th of January, noth the 3rd like I originally thought (or hoped, as the case may be).

Dear God, one more day in my own personal hell. 

Thundercat

Kicked and Banned — Follow Up

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/31/03

A quick follow-up to being kicked and banned from the SS List…

I can’t help but feel Ross inadvertantly did me a HUGE favor. Its funny, because I opened up my mailbox today, and it was like heaven not having to weed through all those SS posts! I was amazed at how much more fun e-mail had become! Isn’t that wierd? I was a bit worried because the SS list has been a staple in my mailbox for almost 7 years now, so I was concerned I’d miss it, but surprizingly I don’t!

In fact, I almost feel energized because I’d often post advice to that list that was either ignored or got me flamed by some people on there. I can’t tell you how frustrating it was when I posted valid advice that went counter to everyone else’s, and then when the guy I was trying to help followed everyone else’s advice, he ended up worse off than he was before. It was too emotionally draining for me to see that happen time and time again, and in a way, its a good thing its no longer part of my life.

I can only hope that either someone else comes in as a voice of reason on that list, or Ross starts taking a more active role in it to set everyone straight. His posts that usually consists of only one sentence or less aren’t of much use to anyone. In fact, I know a while back he got on people’s cases for being too harsh with their critisizms of other people, which in a way kept that list quite honest as opposed to pandering to the lowest common denomenator like it is now.

I’ve also been approached by Double Your Dating to do a review of their eBook, which I plan on doing sometime in January. I’ll probably do reviews of all the major seduction products as well, including SS, which will be as honest as I can make it now that I don’t have to worry about pissing Ross off anymore. Before I was trying not to do anything to overtly criticize Ross’s products because I really didn’t want his business to be affected (even though I honestly doubt the 3 people reading this website would affect anything of Ross’s, lol), but now that Ross has told be where I can shove it, I guess I don’t have to censor my opinions anymore. Though I will say that I’ll probably be looking at SS as an over-all system rather than at individual products, so there will be plenty of good to go with the bad, just as there are in all the products out there.

I’d also like to thank everyone who sent me e-mails of condolances and congratulations for getting Kicked and Banned from the SS List. It’s nice to know that at least privately, there is a substantial number of people who agree with my views, so I can be sure I’m not some raving loon. =)

Thundercat

Kicked and Banned

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/29/03

Well, I suppose the inevitable has finally happened. I’ve been Kicked and Banned from the Speed Seduction e-mail list.

Apparently, Ross found my blog and didn’t like what I had to say about his list or my take on affirmations, so he gave me 24 hours to unsubscribe. However, I was at my grandparent’s all weekend and didn’t get the message untill today, so I also found a very terse e-mail from Ross informing me that I’ve not only been kicked from his list, but banned as well.

I have mixed feelings about this. I’ve been a member of that list since 1998 when I first bought my BHSC, and it HAS helped me in the past. Its pretty much been a constant force in my life since then. But at the same time, it seems like a logical step to cut myself off from it because I have not learned anything useful from the list going on 2 years now. In fact, most of the advice I gave on the list was largely ignored because it really didn’t jive with much of Ross’s teachings, so I guess this was just inevitable. Kind of like a father cutting off his son from any family aide, even though the son has a good paying job already.

I think the thing that bothers me the most was the tone or Ross’s e-mails. I can’t help but feel bad because I do respect the guy and he feels like I stabbed him in the back by posting all my thoughts in a public capacity. In a way, since I’m from an SS background, I’m more critical of it as a system than anything else out there because its something so close to my heart. I mean, anyone who read’s my “It Begins” post knows that SS saved my fuckin’ life in college. And having hung out with Ross before, I know he’s not a bad guy at all. In fact, I really like the dude. So the fact that he’s pissed with me is a bit disappointing, since I was just stating opinions about his products and nothing about him or my personal experiences with the guy. Hell, I even mention him in my Top 10 PUAs post, but I guess he only wanted to read the bad stuff.

In a wierd way, many friends have told me that its almost a “Right of Passage” to piss Ross off, seeing as how many of the top guys in the field have done so and gone on to great success, even though I have no interest in becoming a seduction “guru.” So I guess I should be glad it happened, but I’m really not. I’d much rather Ross had contacted me saying “I disagree with what you’re saying, so keep it off my list. But if its working for you, more power to ya.”

And if in his shoes, I guess I can see where he’s coming from. I guess I was pretty harsh about the list and his Unstoppable Confidence tapes. I am critical of SS as a “complete system” of seduction. But do I still use SS? Oh yes, most definitely. Patterns are very powerful, and NLP does work, just not to the extent that Ross makes it out to (at least, that’s how I see it). I’m starting to believe that much of this is behavior based rather than a logical throught process, where most of your interactions need to spring from your behavior and actions rather than what you say. And I’ll continue to be critical of SS as long as I see flaws in it, just as I’ll continue to be critical of DYD, MM, RSD, Swinggcat Method, GWM, and any other system that comes along. SS just happened to be the first casualty because I have such an intimate knowledge of it (and some of the dude’s on the list make it too easy of a target).

In a way, I’m also flattered that my little blog has garnered enough attention to incur the wrath of one of this community’s formost guru’s. I guess it means people are reading this. I’m just sorry it had to go down the way it did.

But life goes on, and I’m sure I’ll get along without the SS list or Ross’s approval, since I never really feel like I had it to begin with. In fact, I’m sure I’ll probably piss off lots of people with my rants and ramblings. But if they even help 1 fat, lazy, nerd out there, then my mission is complete. =)

Thundercat

PS: If you guys disagree with my critique of the SS list or the UC tapes, let me know and post here. Maybe you think I’m wrong? Maybe you think I’m right? Maybe you don’t give a shit and just think I’m one disturbed individual? Let me know. That’s why I allow talkback on this blog.

The Next Ellyn Update

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/29/03

So I just got off the phone with Ellyn, and have come to the decision that should I actually see this girl again, there is NO WAY IN HELL I’m going to fuck her. Why, may you ask? Because on top of genital warts, there is a good possibility she has herpes. I swear, the girl is a fucking walking culture swabb with enough medical problems to make Elephant Man look healthy. Seems she’s been busy since we were last together and has contracted more medical ecentricities than Dr. Frankenstein. Ew.

The girl is so pathetic, it makes me wonder how bad I must have been when I was, in fact, together with her. I swear, it must have been the bottom of the barrel AFC-dom where I was so hard up, I would get together with a girl as mentally and physically fucked-up as she is.

She called to try one last time to talk me into seeing her, which I have decided not to do after consulting with a few friends of mine. She was trying every trick in the book, from telling me she bought me a Christmas preasent, to pulling the “You’re such a good friend. You’re my only good friend! I don’t like anyone else! You’re the only one who’s ever been there for me!” crap. She even went so far as to try and make me jealous about her still being in love with her ex-fiance, who put her in the hospital twice after beating her. Oh, its so funny, its almost sad. I had forgotten about all the head games this girl used to play after I decided never to contact her again. It’s just so eye opening now that I know exactly what she’s doing.

Basically, she’s afraid that no guy is ever going to want her again, so she’s desperately trying to get me, the one guy in her life that she hasn’t pissed off enough to never talk to her again, to come and see her so she can get her precious validation. I’m so tempted not to give it to her, but considering the Gollum-like state of patheticness she currently exists in, that might be boarderline cruel. Regardless if I see her again, there will be no sex involved at all, period.

Thundercat

Tug of War

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/29/03

The thing I love about TD is that the better he gets at this PUA thing, the more bitter his outlook on women becomes. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarilly, because that outlook is usually true. Women are fucked up creatures indeed, and the more experience I get, the more I realize the extent of their fucked-upedness. This recent Post by TD is something I’ve heard him cover in workshop before, so its nothing new to me, but its the first time I’ve seen him post it publically. I think its a really excellent post, so I’ve decided to share it with all of you.

**************************************************
Topic: Tug of war – the ultimate PUA battle (1 of 6), Read 729 times
Conf: >> Advanced
From: TylerDurden tylerdurden9982@hotmail.com
Date: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 07:43 PM

Here’s how it goes down:

The girl hits full buying temperature. Maybe you did it. Maybe another natural player did it. Maybe her boyfriend pissed her off and de-validated her. Maybe she’s on vacation, and she decides she wants it. Whatever the way, she’s decided she wants sex TONIGHT, and somebody is going to get it.

You see this in Leceister Square in London England. The girls get hit on all night. The guys hitting on them are getting blown out left and right. But yet, at the same time, their buying temperature is escalating and escalating.

And as we all know, buying temperature is TRANSFERABLE. You can literally walk up to a girl who is being picked up by a player, blow him out, and pull the girl and hook up with her within 45 minutes. I’ve done it in front of audiences, while they sit there jaw dropped. It appears that I’ve done something inconceivable, when in fact what I’ve done it stupidly easy, just as long as you have a bit of balls.

In nighttime social environments, pickup is all about FOLLOW THE SHINY THING GIRLS.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW THE SHINY THING.. ITS GOING OVER HERE..

That’s a metaphor I first got from Toecutter I think, and its funny as hell because its true. In clubs, girls are like little kittens in a prairie, jumping from one stimulus to the next. Chase the butterfly little kitten.. chase it.. chase it.. no wait, a leaf.. chase it.. no wait!, a bird… chaaaaase it….

Girls in clubs, its the same shit. Dance…. Dance…. Drink.. Drink…. No wait! Lights! Music!!! Guys hitting on us… We’re listening to them… They’re fun…. No wait! They’re players… Runnn awaaaaaay!!!! Wait, its my BEST FRIEND… I LOVE HER… HUG MY BEST FRIEND!!! GRIND HER!!!!

God, how do I deal with this shit on a nightly basis? It’s like they’re on crack. Do you guys see this shit? They see their friends and they run up and scream and hug eachother?

At clubs, most girls look like mindless stimulation seeking zombies. When I run workshops, I call this “the girl is about to pop”. What that means is that you’ll be running the set, but one of them can’t quite hear you or isn’t fully interested. And you see her eyes wandering, and she’s looking around the club. It’s like “This isn’t stimulating enough.. Zombie needs more stimulation.. Seek stimulation.. Find it.. Maintain buying temperature.. Zombie LIKES buying temperature… dancing.. .dancing is buying temperature…. Zombie likes dancing… Let’s go dance.. Zombie needs zombie friends to come with zombie, so zombie is safe…”

GUYS…. – LET’S – GO – DANCE!!!

And POOF, your set is GONE. Your target girl could have LOVED you, but the second her friends say “Let’s go dance”, it is fucking OVER. I’ll see one of the girls looking around, seeking out other stimulation, and I’ll blurt out to my wing “dude, that one’s about to pop”, and then its “Hey! Show’s over here!”, to the chick (like from my “How to take the fuck over a set” post I wrote a few weeks ago).

Anyway, getting back to the topic of tug of war, this is the shit I see all the time. The girl hits buying temperature, and now its whoever has the biggest shiny thing that will fuck her that night.

I’ll have girls telling me they love me and asking where I’m going after the club closes, and then some other dude will move in, and she’ll ignore me and act like I don’t exist. Literally, she’ll just cut me out of her reality. Then I’ll go in and blow the guy out, and he’ll leave, and then the girl will be my best friend again.

Bros, this is the harsh world of pickup. It’s a cold cruel world…

This shit reminds me of rams butting heads on the mating ground. It’s fucking crazy some of the shit I’ve seen and done.

In Las Vegas, I took this girl away from a guy who’d been gaming her all night. I was macking out with her and she’s all over me. She says she wants to go home with me and that the guy she’s with is a chump (even though she is clearly into him, but she just likes me more now, since I opened her even though the guy was right there).

We go to leave the casino, and her friend wants to back in for one last second and say bye to the guys. The guy I took her from grabs her back chats her for a few minutes, and next thing you know he walks her around the casino for the next 45 minutes while I sit there waiting like a puppydog.. FUCK, so CLOSE.. Like I had them at the cab stand, and now I’m back in here by myself??? My girl comes back and says she can’t go home with me anymore, while I see the guy smiling that he’s got her now.

I go off to the side, over to the friend and say that I’m gay, and that I want my girl (her best friend) to be my new best friend and to take her shopping tommorow morning. “Can I stay over?” She believes it, and cockblocks the guy who was about to pull the girl that we were fighting over, and we all go home together. The girl hates me, but her buying temperature is up and she needs sex. Oh yeah, did I mention that she was engaged? Anyway, she’s fucking hot as hell, I’m there, she’s there, and boom, its a done deal.

This was hard core tug of war. The same thing I did in Montreal, when I gamed up this set until they’re ready to go home with me and my wing (while the students watch this go down), but then I have to leave to continue the workshop because its too early in the night, so I leave. Meanwhile some natural french player guys move in and start making out with these girls within about 3 minutes! Why? Because the girls buying temperature is up, and these guys can sense it and they exploit it.

Now these girls want to leave with these 2 french player dudes. So I go in with Stephane (of Cliff’s List fame), and I make best friends with the two girls and tell them that I love their friend because I love them, and that I want to be best friends with them and that I we’ll all be happy together, blah blah.. The girls cockblock the player guys and tell their friends all to go back to my house (incidentally its Cliff’s house from Cliff’s List, who I’m staying with). Our targets keep trying to go back with the French player guys, but I just cockblock the shit out of them by continually whispering into the obstacles ears that I need help from them. In this case there was a fuckup which I talked about in another post. Either way, the French guys were jaw-dropped when we waved, winked, and laughed at them, as we took away their girls.

I’ve done this SO MANY times. I’ll see a girl who’s ready to be pulled, and I just go befriend the obstacles. The obstacles know that their friend is going to sleep with SOMEBODY, so they do what it takes to make sure that somebody is me.

This is hardcore tug of war. You can see it outside clubs at closing times. Accounts are being worked out. Guys are chatting the girls they grinded with all night, trying to get them to “go to the afterbar” or “go eat” with them.

That’s how the pull always goes down. It’s first to go eat or party more or do drugs or drink at a house or hotel, and one thing leads to another. JLaix uses “We’re going to Club Jeffy”. Same type of shit.

I’ve also lost alot of tug of war battles in my day. Of course this is because I’ll go into the battle even in spite of knowing that my odds are poor. I do it just for the education.

The other night in Kingston I had this girl ready to leave with me. I also had a date that night with a hotter girl, and ditched this girl at around 11pm. Twentysix was visiting me in Kingston, and we drove over to the girls house, but I realized that I’d forgotten the address. FUCK. So I go back to the club. Surprise, surprise……. The girl is grinding and making out with some new guy, about to go home with him. Of course, its because I upped her buying temperature FOR the guy. FACK!!!

So I get the friends of the girl to drag her off of him for me. Now she’s all up on me. She’s mine. But I leave for the bathroom for a minute, and I come back and watch the dude who was grinding with her pull her home and fuck her (I found out the next day, because I befriended the friends and called them).

Likewise, I was in Whistler Blackcomb, in British Columbia last weekend. For guys who don’t know what that is, its one of the top ski resorts in the world. Fucking AMAZING place to go. Totally amazing experience. So we ski all day, and go clubbing at night. Twentysix and I had gamed up this 2set the night previous, and had a day2 planned with them at one of the bars on the resort. We show up 2 hours late, and these 2 player guys have moved in on our girls. I underestimate them, because our girls run up to us. I figure they’re some lameasses. They weren’t good looking or big or anything. I say to my girls “Let’s get out of here”, and they’re ready to leave. Out of nowhere, the player guy walks in and says “Let’s go do kareoke”. I laugh at him internally, because I think he’s AFC. But then I notice something. It’s subtle, but its clearly there. He’s not leaning in. He’s not looking needy. He’s directing her what to do. He’s alpha.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK – He’s a player and I misread the play.

Despite being about to leave with us, I watch this guy walk in and outalpha me (I sat there indifferent because I couldn’t CONCEIVE that this guy could be a player), and take my girls from me. We all go to the next club together, and he has her and I’m looking lame for following along. Twentysix’s girl likes him though, and is deciding between this guys’ friend and Twentysix. Twentysix’s competition isn’t too bad, so he blows him out. But the girl tells me “HB decided yesterday after meeting you guys that she was going to get laid tonight. And you guys just came too late.”

Twentysix runs the typical routine that we run when this happens, where one girl is ON but the other girl isn’t. He tells his girl that if her friend isn’t going to make it fun for me that he’ll just leave. His girl begs her friend to hook up with me, but the player guy has me by the balls. I actually learned a SHITLOAD from watching this guy work, which I’ve since encorporated into my game to great effect. So Twentysix games up some other girl who he NEARLY pulls (a super cute blondie, much hotter than his girl), and both girls go home and fuck these two new guys who blew me out.

FUCK FUCK FUCK… I go home alone that night. The same way that many guys have gone home alone because of me. OUCH, I know how it feels now… ahhahaa, its all a game anyway, so I there’s winners and losers. I’ll be a winner again, and I’m sure I’ll lose alot of them too.

For me, when I see its GAME ON with the tug of war, I have key tool’s at my disposal:

1) Unlike 99% of natural players, I know that the key to the target is her peergroup. I befriend the obstacles and bring them ALL home together. I literally TELL DIRECTLY to the obstacles to pull her friends off the competing players, because I like and want to date her friend so that way we can all be a happy family.

2) I’m willing to sit in set and just chat the obstacles, while the players up the target’s buying temperature for me, and I wait for the perfect time to make my move.

3) Out-alpha tactics, posted in “Some AMOG tactics” post I did a while back.

4) Social proof and jealousy. Unlike most players, I can walk into adjacent sets and blow them up, right in front of the girl I want.

5) Tell the obstacles that I’m gay, and worried about the target, and that I want to be her new gay best friend and take her shopping, and I want to save her from that guy. Then the friends push the girl on me and leave her alone with me, and the target has no idea what I’ve told the friends. In cases where the target hear’s that I told the friends that I was gay, I just say either that I was joking, and then makeout and hookup with the target, or I say they’re wrong, or they never said it.. Whatever.

6) I throw up the BIGGER SHINY THING.. I’ll do a magic trick (I rarely use them, but I’ll use them and make the competing guy player be the guy I do the trick on).. I have this one where I snatch a coin out of the guys’ hand, that’s not really magic that I learned at an MM Workshop. It’s basic, but it works because you OWN the guy in front of the girl. I also just plow them with stories or bring over other girls and introduce them, and then tell the pawn-girls I brought over to chat the guy, and then take my girl back.

Again, notice that I NEVER give up. If I see a girl with her buying temperature up, I LOVE the challenge of competing against other players. You see this in Leceister Square in London at the end of EVERY Friday and Saturday night. The girls are walking around totally in state, and the player guys are coming up to them one by one until one of them pulls them. Crazy shit.

Anyway, this is a fun thing that I like to do, and I know most other PUAs aren’t doing this stuff.

I really encourage you guys to have no fear of approaching even 1guy/1girl two sets, and taking the girls. You’d be surprised how often the two barely know eachother. Also, if you EVER and I mean *EVER* see natural players gaming up girls, never be afraid to go in and open ONLY the girls.

How do you know if its natural players? Hahaha, well, I hate to say this, but 9 times out of 10, if the girls look like they’re having a good time (ie: they’re giggly or touching the guy alot), then its a pickup, NOT a boyfriend with his longterm girlfriend. Why? Because girls aren’t having fun if they’re with their LTR. They usually only have fun with players. haaa, sad but true.

So if you see girls all giddy, then its probably a pickup, and you can easily swoop in and play a little tug of war with the other PUAs.

It’s fun, and I often make friends with the other natural PUAs who I’m competing against. In fact some of my friends I’ve met in the field are players whose girls I’ve taken home right from them, earned their respect, and now we hang out.

I have a ton more to say on this topic also, which maybe I’ll post someday or in addition to this. Tug of war is something I do all the time, and I encourage you guys to give it a shot because its WAY easier than it looks. It looks tough, but if you just use the principles you learn from ASF, you’ll find its in fact very easy. Just ignore the social situation, and PLOW THEM FUCK OUT OF THE GIRLS WITH ROUTINES right in front of the guys. Easy shit, and great for ONS.

-TD
**********************************************

You can find the entire thread here:

http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?121074,23

Thundercat

More Feminator Fun

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/29/03

Found another Feminator post on ASF.  This guy is too funny.  Learn what not to do by reading this:

************************************************
Topic: FEMINATOR IS BACK! New $$$ night time method (1 of 9), Read 516 times   
Conf: >> Tactics / Techniques 
From: feminator 15081978@bluewin.ch 
Date: Thursday, December 25, 2003 08:24 PM   

My new night time method

1. I counter clearly Bitch shields, the AFC dating frame and ASD…

2.I show her, that i want to sleep with her, but i still remain a challenge.

3. I am making out with her ASAP. I don’t give her more than 10 hours for fuck close.

FIELD TESTED EXAMPLES

"Hey i don’t know you for so long, but you are definitely my type…"

"…this doesn’t mean, that i want to sleep with you or that we can have a relationship together, because for that a girl needs much more …"

Example of field tested deactivation of bitch shield

"I don’t like girls, who are playing with men. A lot of beautiful women think that they have much more value than others. For me beauty is common and i don’t like arrogant girls, who are trying to be more important than others. I can only love a girl, who shows me very directly, that she deeply cares about me and who gives me the feeling of being very important for her, otherwise i can’t trust her and i walk away…"

-> More positive and negative stories about bitch shields possible, if necessary!

Example of field tested deactivation of the dating frame

Have you ever noticed, that many guys already think they have a close relationship with a girl, before they kissed or slept with her… I mean for me this is strange… Sex is very important for me. Dates is something i enjoy more after sex, haha, just a joke but seriously, when i don’t kiss a girl very quickly, she becomes only a friend for me. This happens very quickly, when i know a girl for more than 10 hours!

(Later i was checking all the time my clock with a smile… "So i know you for 9 hours, haha." She said:"No this doesn’t count, it was only 6 hours and you walked all the time away yesterday." I said:"I do this all the time with just friend girls." Then 10 minutes later we kissed) 

-> More positive and negative stories about dating frames possible, if necessary!

Example of field tested deactivation of the ASD

I only like girls, who are not cheap sluts… Girls with personality and social value… but at the same time it’s also appreciated, when a girl thinks all the time about sex and shows this to me… I mean sex is natural … For example, when i touch or kiss somebody i really like with this special feeling of trust and connection, i feel very good… etc.
If a girls is not open for kissing or touching me, i would walk away very quickly! 

-> More positive and negative stories about ASD possible, if necessary!

PS: 
This is just a short summary. I am currently very busy in the field! Any comments appreciated!
**********************************************

You can read the whole thread here:

http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?121398,16

Thundercat

24HRS Reveals His Psychosis

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/29/03

A while back, I posted about this dude 24HRS who’s trying to make a name for himself Mmasters style by flaming Tyler Durden on ASF.  At first I thought this guy was funny, but now its just plain obvious he’s a psycho.  He decided to re-post the private e-mail that Formhandle deleted from the board, and another series of flames ensued.  My thoughts on the matter are pretty much summed up by Neo-Rio’s post, which was:

*************************************************
Topic: TD/Papa e-mail reposted….. (8 of 17), Read 632 times   
Conf: >> General 
From: Neo-Rio riobaan@hotmail.com 
Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 01:36 AM   

Oh shit, Ray got in here……
*************************************************

If you want to read all the psychosis, you can find it all here:

http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?121053,8

Thundercat

Austin Summit Cancelled!!! Sort-of.

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/29/03

Okay, for a while now there have been plans to have a big ASF summit in Austin, TX scheduled for April of this year. I was looking forward to it because personally, I love Austin. But it seems that the even has been rescheduled to a more convienient venue, that of Los Angeles.

Yes, Herbal — the primary instigator of this event — is going to be moving in with Papa, Style, and Mystery to take part of Project Hollywood in LA. Therefore, he and Papa have decided its more convienient to hold the summit out on the west coast.

Apparently, there are more than a few people miffed about this, as evidenced by ITStallion’s post to ASF:

******************************************
Topic: PUA SUMMIT? WTF?!?! (1 of 14), Read 268 times
Conf: >> General
From: ITStallion
Date: Monday, December 29, 2003 11:39 AM

Dudes, you guys got to get this shit straight. You got guys flying in from other countries. Not only is an unofficial move made by Herbal and Papa not cool, but a late notice move that could cost a guy a $1000 ticket is NOT COOL.

Herbal man, you fucked up with this one. No excuse. Period. It’s cool to have it in LA. Not cool that you and papa hijacked the whole damn thing, when the PU Summit is an ASF thing in the first place. If your PU skills are anything like your business ethic, you’ll never have LTRs. Gotta be straight with people. gotta be upfront. No ass kissing. No trying to weasle into a new circle. I guess it’s a maturity thing.

I have to agree with Formhandle here and say that this sounds awfully fishy. I’m sure it will be a quality event in either place…but I’d bet every fucking dollar I have that this whole thing is a decision made in the interests of the “PH project” and all its people.

Very fucking uncool. And to play it off like “oops, my bad,” makes it even worse. It’s not the kind of thing you “forget to mention.”

And then you decide on Christmas Day. Umm, don’t you think you could have called Formhandle right then when you guys were discussing it and brainstormed with him? God knows he crossed your mind when you were hashing out the details, and you guys were too chickenshit to call him, and instead do this roundabout way of changing the city. And don’t you think it’s a little fucked up to change a whole fucking summit for the whole community and sponsored by ASF, all based on yours and Papas (and PH) whims??

Anyways I’ll quit the rant. Other people can bitch to you or me or whomever.
Late,
ITS
******************************************

If you want to read the whole thread, you can find it here:

http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?121834,8

Well, I can’t blame these guys for being a bit perturbed about this. However, in this situation, I think the change is for the better.

First of all, its advanced enough to let those who did get tickets WAY WAY early to change their flights and adjust their plans.

Secondly, as far as women go, the quality in LA is just as good as those in Austin.

Third, they will get to use the Project Hollywood Mansion as a venue. This is cool because it will be free to use, and its right off the Sunset Strip, so after the event you can walk a block away and practice on some of the hottest women in the US.

Fourth, some of the best seducers in the world reside in LA, and a lot of them will now be able to attend because they don’t have to buy plane tickets.

This goes on and on. Personally, I’m excited that I don’t have to spend the money to travel to this sucker. Trust me, there are worst places to hold it than LA! =)

Thundercat

To Grandmother’s House We Go…

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/27/03

I’m beginning to feel a little bit like Frodo with his ring, trudging towards Mordor.  The weight of family and all the AFC anchors associated to it is starting to become too great.  I got an e-mail from my good friend up north, Brother Kermit, reminding me that family breaks state, and he couldn’t be more right.  I can almost feel my pick-up skills atrophing as I type.

To top it off, my parent’s are dragging me to my Grandparent’s house for the weekend, so I’m afraid I won’t be able to start updating the blog again until Monday.  It will be nice to see my Grandparents and extended family, but it is just under such opressive sircumstances, it is literally zapping all drive and ambition from me.  Nothing wears you down more than the constant stream of questions from family trying to understand what it is I’m doing with my life and why I have yet to accomplish the goals THEY set out for me when I was a kid.  I tried explaining to my father what I was doing today, and his responce was simply "I don’t see how you’re going to achieve that."  Yay for support.

Regardless, my dear, old Grandparents will be happy to see me, though I am bracing for the inevitable "All we want before we die is to see some great-grandchildren," statement, which will undoubtedly be directed towards me, since I’m the oldest of the grandkids.  I haven’t the heart to tell them that I don’t plan on getting married right now, let alone ever having children.  Just another jab at ol’ Thundy’s state.  Ugh.

On the lighter side, I got some good Christmas gifts this year.  Quite a few DVDs I’ve been jonesing for, and an expensive little toy called a CLIE, which is part palm pilot, part digital camera, part camcorder, part voice recorder, part MP3 player, part video game player, part portable computer, and part internet hub, so I’m having fun decoding how to work the damn thing.  I plan on using it in the field to record a few of my sarges.  I might post a few online if they’re good enough, but I’ll have to wait to see if it’s really worth the trouble.

I’ve talked to Ellyn on the phone twice since the last update.  The first one, she called me on Christmas Day to wish me a happy holliday, further trying to entice me to visit with the promise of sex.  She kept talking about my dick and the hotel we’d be getting and all that jazz.  Very subtly manipulative on her part, which goes to show you how even girls with brain damage can fuck with you, its so naturally ingrained in their psychology.

However, I was sure to tell her that maybe I’d visit her on Saturday, knowing full well that I’d be with Grandpa and Grandma at that time.  I made it sound like a good possibility, then pulled it away with "but I’m not sure what my plans are," which would only make her try harder to convince me.  She eventually ended up asking if I’d let her know either way if I was gonna come or not.

So today I called to tell her that I wasn’t gonna make it (Grandparent’s trip and all).  So she calls me back all heartbroken and asking if there was any other time I could make it before I go back to LA.  She tells me she has plans for New Years but is willing to break them if I’d come up.  This poor chick is just trying WAY too hard.  I don’t even know what I did to deserve this treatment from her, but I’m definitely getting an idea of what it’s like to be a hot chick.  Anyway, I tell her that if I was to visit her, Tuesday would be the day.  So if I go up there, that’s when it’ll be.  Otherwise I’ll just write the whole thing off.  I know that if I DO hook up with her, it could very well be more drama than its worth, because I just KNOW she’s gonna pull some crap where she’ll try to get me to let her come out to California with me (which will never happen).  But, we’ll see how she plays it.

I talked to Papa briefly over the holliday and he told me that the Seattle Real Social Dynamics workshop was a success.  Apparently, all the instructors got laid, which is always nice to hear (though its nicer to hear the STUDENTS got laid, but I digress…).  He invited me to help teach the final Mystery Method Workshop in LA, which should be a huge party, but the dummy’s scheduled it for this weekend, and I’m gonna be entertaining the grandparents, so I’m unable to attend.  Hopefully, the last MM workshop will go out with a blast.  I’m sorry I have to miss this one because I love to see Style work his shit in the field, it really is a learning experience for me when that happens, but alas, it wasn’t meant to be.  Hopefully, the New Year will be a lot of fun with the launch of "Project Hollywood" and getting a few new faces in the LA scene (ie:  Herbal, who seems to have great potential as a PUA).

I heard Tyler and 2-6 were gonna be in LA for a few weeks, so if I’m lucky I’ll get to see them again before they head back to America Jr. — er, Canada.  Regardless, I’m just looking forward to getting back to LA and my own life.  I’m going to change a lot of things about the way I’m living this year to try and help me get in the right frame of mind.  I’m gonna redecorate my appartment to give it a new feel.  I also plan on creating more of a routine to follow, so I can focus on some important personal goals of mine, which also extend to a new business I’m starting up and my seduction study.  Who knows?  Maybe if I get good enough at this I’ll teach a class at the Learning Annex, right next to Seymore Butt’s How To Make Your Own Porno Movie class.  =)

Anyway, I’ll catch you all when I get back from the family reunion.  In the meantime, if you guys wanna help me out by sending me field reports or articles to post, I’d love to get some just so its not all on me to find crap to write about!

Later,

Thundercat

Merry Christmas!!! Happy Hunakkuh!!! Awesome Kwanzaa!!!

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/24/03
**Image removed

Well, the Hollidays are here, and even I, the great and mighty Thundercat, must take a break.  It can be quite laborous updating a daily blog of any sort, but I am thankful I have such a great tool to help keep me focused on this aspect of my life wich needs constant attention.  However, the next two days of Christmas Eve and Christmas Day I am setting aside to spend with family and enjoy my favorite holliday of the year.

I’ve loved Christmas ever since I was a kid.  It’s not just about the preasents for me.  I love the snow, the tree, the decorations, the green and red color coordinating, Santa Clause, fires in the fireplace, stockings, candy, friendship, family… I love everything it stands for.  The coming of Christ into the world, and with him, the hope for every man, woman, and child living or yet to live to enjoy peace and happiness forever.  Whatever your beliefs may be, you have to admit, that’s a good thing to strive for.

This year, I am thankful for so many things.  But most of all, I am thankful for my friends.  I have been quite lucky to meet so many great guys who have become companions and confidants in my life.  People like Masterclass, Swinggcat, Papa, Mystery, Craig, Style, Tyler Durden, 2-6, Poet Dude, Tyler Durden, Brother Kermit,  Joey Vegas, Herbal, Harmless, Little Big Dick, Christophe, Merovingian,  J-Dog, Zan, Maddash, Ace Rock, Primoman, Adam, Ross Jeffries, David DeAngelo, and any number of others (I know I’m leaving a few out).  I am thankful for their support, advice, and fellowship on days like this, because I believe they are all helping to make me a better person.

And I’m also thankful for you guys reading this blog, because you help keep me motivated to go out there and improve an area in my life which has traditionally been lacking.  I hope you will all continue to come back and participate in discussions on this site so that I may learn and grow as much as you guys.

Finally, I’d like to ask a big favor from all of you.  As you can see, on the left of my site on the "Links" portion, I have a URL that will lead you to a website called "Fashion For Fat Guys."  Its an eBook that instructs overweight men how to dress better for their body type (lord knows I’ll need to crack it open after this holliday is done).  Basically, the deal is that I make money everytime a copy of that book is sold.  I have had a bit of financial difficulty this past year, and it has affected my sarging, to the point where I’m not able to go out as much as I’d like.

So to be a bit selfish in this giving season, I’d ask that you guys check out the site and see what it offers.  If you think it would help you, please buy it.  If you know of someone it might help, recommend it or buy it for them as a gift.  I only link stuff I believe is quality and offers value, so if I didn’t think it was an honest product with valuable information, I would not attach myself to it.  At the very least, I hope to earn enough off of it to pay for this blog so I can continue to rant and rave for your reading pleasure for another year.  At the most, I hope to make enough to quit my shitty job and be a full time seducer/web publisher.

But, despite all that, I hope you all have a happy, fun, and safe holiday.  I won’t be updating this site until after Christmas, but you guys can still contact me via e-mail if you wish.  Also, if you have any good field reports or articles, be sure to send them to me.  If I like them, I’ll post them here.

Happy Hollidays!

Thundercat

The Power of Frames — How Do You Tell If A Girl Likes You?

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/24/03

So some poor soul on the San Diego PLAY list posted a problem to the group asking how you could tell when a girl likes you. Now, being part of the San Diego list, this guy has the advantage of getting advice from the likes of BadBoy and Craig, both of which are two top guys in this little community we have going on here. Craig’s advice to the fella, which I don’t think he would mind me sharing here, was simply:

“Kiss her and find out.”

Short, sweet, and to the point. Typical Craig.

Other than the fact that this is good advice, I think it’s important to keep in mind that it’s coming from Craig’s frame, which is quite different from most people’s. Craig is pretty congruent with who he is. He’s experienced enough where if he wants to know if a girl likes him, he’ll kiss her. However, he doesn’t take into account his calibration skills or how drunk he is at the time, both of which are probably important in kissing the girl to guage her interest.

The thing I find funny about this situation is the frame with which most other guys (AFCs in particular) would come at it. I do not think that it’s necessarilly important for guys to know where the girl is at in terms of “does she like me or not?” Rather, I think it’s important for guys to keep in mind where THEY’RE at when it comes to if she likes them or not.

Let me explain.

How different would you approach this situation if you already KNEW that this girl was into you? What if you just simply ASSUMED that she liked you and wanted to sleep with you and everything she was doing was trying to get you into the sack? How would you act? What would you say? What frame would you adopt?

I think this is a vital thing to keep in mind when it comes to seducing a girl. Having the frame of “I know this girl wants me” as opposed to “I wonder if she wants me” is so much more powerful because it puts you in a POWER POSITION. It allows you to say things to her like:

“Stop hitting on me.”
“I don’t care what you say. I’m not going to sleep with you.”
“Its pathetic how much you want me.”

And any number of other things. And what does having this frame do other than put you in a power position? If its strong enough, it will SUCK HER into the frame where she ACTUALLY wants you. And at that point, the game is over. Pass GO, collect $200, you’ve won.

I think too many guys get caught up in where the girl is at rather than putting her where they want her. Some of the best guys I’ve seen pick-up women: Swinggcat, Style, Zan, Craig, Tyler, etc — they all set the frame where the girl wants them. They set the frame where THEY decide if the girl is good enough. Its a funny little mind game, but one that is incredible to behold.

It all comes down to the power of frames.

For instance, Papa sets some of the most powerful frames I’ve ever seen. He is masterful at it, to the point of being psychotic — simply because he does it so naturally. I often times have to watch myself when I’m around him because if I’m not careful, he’ll suck me right into whatever frame he sets. Its amazing to behold, and probably one of the reasons so many guys see him as a good PUA. I’ve learned a lot from Papa, mostly just from hanging out with the guy and observing what he’s doing.

I’ve discussed the subject of Frames many times with Swinggcat as well. Obviously, “Frames” is not a new thing in the seduction arena, but the way Swingg lays them out in his book in terms of Frames and MetaFrames is a real eye opener, because it gives you a sense of just how powerful they can be.

So how do you set these frames?

I think it was the legendary Rick H. who once said “If you say anything with enough conviction, people will believe you.” Its as simple as that. It doesn’t matter if you believe what you’re saying or not (though it helps), but if you say it with enough conviction, others will accept it and go along with whatever reality is presented to them.

Swinggcat often tells me stories about his friend “Albino Gary Coleman,” who is basically a con artist. He says he will lie to people to get what he wants, and sometimes he will get caught in the lie. But instead of copping to the truth, what he’ll do is make up an even BIGGER more OUTRAGEOUS lie, never backtracking from what he said before, and suddenly a new frame is set and the person who caught him lying is once again mislead, all because he sticks to his tall tales so steadfastly and congruently, with no hesitation or doubt whatsoever.

That’s the power of frames. It is evil Jedi-Mind trick shit.

Please use it for good.

Thundercat

Initial Fear of the Approach — Revisited

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/24/03

Okay, so I got a reply from a guy about my little rant of fear of approaching, who just so happens to ALSO be the guy who originally brought it up on the D.C. Seduction e-mail list.  His reply is as follows:

Good post.

I’m wondering to what degree things like NLP could help with this. Something were you could ‘create’ these experiences of approaching HB in your mind several times a day for weeks before you start to do so in the real world. Has anyone done anything like this?

I’m also planning on using the 21 day method as found here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Seduction_The_Art_Of/message/419

Basically it just says to start small taking baby steps by just starting off by asking HB for directions, the time, etc. Just to get used to some sort of approach. Then expand to asking more complicated things, using eye contact, smiling, etc but keeping unrelated to a pickup. This sounds like a nice step to help get over the monster first hurdle of the cold approach.

I remember reading somewhere one trick is to not focus on yourself. Direct your focus on the HB. I guess kind of like the mind over matter stuff where people walk over coals. Focus is the trick. This may be something to keep in mind when I start. Keep the innermind completely silent.

So I’ve decided to repost my reply to him here on my blog.  Here it is:

> I’m wondering to what degree things like NLP could
> help with this. Something
> were you could ‘create’ these experiences of
> approaching HB in your mind
> several times a day for weeks before you start to do
> so in the real world.
> Has anyone done anything like this?

Its horseshit.

NLP will not help you.  You can’t use hypnosis as a crutch to help get you to “the point” where you start approaching girls.  It just won’t happen.  I know because I used to do that sort of stuff when I was an SS zombie and all it lead to was more dates with my hand, if you get my drift.

>
> I’m also planning on using the 21 day method as
> found here:
>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Seduction_The_Art_Of/message/419

> Basically it just says to start small taking baby
> steps by just starting off
> by asking HB for directions, the time, etc. Just to
> get used to some sort of
> approach. Then expand to asking more complicated
> things, using eye contact,
> smiling, etc but keeping unrelated to a pickup. This
> sounds like a nice step
> to help get over the monster first hurdle of the
> cold approach.

Again, horseshit.

You will not get good at this taking baby steps.  Its like swimming in cold water, you just have to jump in head first.  That’s why I recommend taking a workshop or meeting up with other guys, because you will have a safety net with you while you start this off.  But the fact of the matter remains, all the NLP or Baby Steps in the world will just lead to more mental masturbation on your part.

You MUST face your fear and make a fool of yourself. Fuck up.  Make mistakes.  But most importantly, GET OUT IN THE FIELD.  The field is king.  Respect the field.  It will teach you all you need to know.  Period.

>
> I remember reading somewhere one trick is to not
> focus on yourself. Direct
> your focus on the HB. I guess kind of like the mind
> over matter stuff where
> people walk over coals. Focus is the trick. This may
> be something to keep in
> mind when I start. Keep the innermind completely
> silent.

I think the trick is to keep the outcome unattached in your mind.  When you’re first starting off, if your goal is simply “to get an answer from the girl and then walk away,” you know what the outcome is going to be, so you are more in control of the situation.  Its the uncertainty of outcome that fucks a lot of guys up.

The best way to disassociate yourself from the outcome is to decide how far its going to go beforehand and pursue that end.  Also, if you are intimidated by beautiful girls, learn to approach ugly girls and guys and practice striking up conversations with them.  I’ve been in many situations where I’ve had warpigs chasing me just because I bothered talking to them.  Its a nice ego boost (and puts you in the “hot chick” frame) and helps you as you work your way up the proverbial food chain.

>
> Any other tips, tricks, words of wisdom?

How’s this:  Stop thinking about doing it and do it.

Thundercat

My Secret Identity — The Dichotomy of a PUA

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/24/03

Growing up, I used to collect comic books.  I was pretty hard core about it too.  I started when I lived in Germany and it was the only American thing my family had available for kids, and its a trend I continued until high school.  I eventually stopped because I was spending upwards of $200 a week on comic books.  Seriously, I was addicted.  All the money I had went to owning that shit.  My parents had to orchestrate an intervention to break me of this habit.  I probably have a good $3,000 worth of comics packed away in our basement somewhere.

The funny thing is, the heroes in those comics always had a secret identity.  You could break it down to who they really were, and their super-hero persona.  In fact, many stories often dealt with how these heroes would cope with their secret identities and who, in fact, they really were.  I find it a very similar parallel to where I currently am in my life and my development as a Pick-Up Artist.

There are situations I’ve been in since I’ve been home where I’ve found myself wanting to sarge a girl, but in a way I feel like I either can’t or shouldn’t do it because I’m with my family.  The problem with family is that much of the time, they will not understand why you are doing what you are doing.  At least for me, who comes from a fairly conservative, catholic family, my parents would at the very least be puzzled and at the very worst, shocked, at what I was up to most of the time.  Not only that, but my younger brothers (who’ve never had the problems getting women that I’ve had to face) would be very judgmental about it.  In a way, if I revealed to them this aspect of my life, I’d be putting myself at a disadvantage because I’d be opening myself up to judgment by my family.

Obviously, what they think of me doesn’t really matter.  However, it would affect the interactions I’d have with them in the future, especially if they think I’m not very good at this whole “pick-up” thing.  The best time to reveal this aspect of my life would obviously be with a beautiful fiancee on my arm, but I don’t expect that to happen for a very loooooong time, if ever.

So up to that point, I’m stuck living a double life when it comes to my family and AFC friends.  This community is a saving grace in a way, because I now have a network of guys who I can not only talk about this stuff with, but also who understand where I am coming from.  Its a valuable asset, and one I’m quite grateful for.

I know a lot of guys like Papa and Swinggcat are very open with their families about what they do, but I just don’t feel comfortable telling my mom that I’ve devoted a great deal of my life to learning how to get laid by any girl I want, including 3-somes and strippers and any other variety of girl.  She’d have a fit.  This is the same woman who forbade me to date until I was 16.  Can you imagine letting it slip that I’ve frolicked through Vegas with a group of strippers trying to score some drugs so we could party down in my hotel room?  Yikes.

I’m interested in how people handle this.  I know that if you’re congruent with it, it doesn’t matter, but there’s still that nagging reservation about revealing my secret identity to others.  Its a rather sticky wicket, if you ask me.

Until that time, I guess I’ll just stay locked in the nearest phone booth.

Thundercat

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