The Top 10 Pick-Up Artists Of 2003
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis, Top 10 Lists
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03
Okay, so the debate has been raging for a while now over who is the best PUA (Pick-Up Artist) out there. Obviously, a lot of egos are involved in this statement, and everyone has their own opinions about who the best really is. In fact, its so subjective, that I don’t really think there will ever be a clear and honest answer on the subject. Its like asking who the best warrior or soldier is in a war. But the fact of the matter remains, no one can ever ALWAYS be the best. They’re always going to have their off days — be a little bit slow, a little bit late, a little bit unprepared or caught off guard. But that doesn’t stop some people from categorizing the people in our little community as “The Best.” So I’ve decided to throw my hat in the ring and rate the top 10 PUAs operating out there.
However, only the people I have met personally are eligible for my list. There could very well be many great PUAs out there that beat these guys out, but I have not met them and cannot verify their skills personally, so they are off my list for now, though I will mention a few afterwards who I think are worthy of it. Also, my rankings are not based on sheer skill alone, rather, they are based on consistency, and what I have seen as far as how often they are practicing what they preach. So keep that in mind as we go through this.
Thundercat’s Top 10 Pick-Up Artist
1. Style: Style is definitely, hands down, bar none, the best operating in the game today. This guy is probably the most evil, sneaky, manipulative bastard I have ever seen in operation. The thing is, this guy comes in totally under the radar, and that is why he is so dangerous. His subtlety is so amazing, that before you know it, you are qualifying yourself to him and he has you right where he wants you. And the thing is, he does it with both girls AND guys. No one is safe. To give you an idea of how incredible Style is, he’s practically invented most of the techniques a lot of the top guys, like Mystery and Tyler Durden, are using and teaching. He is practically Machiavellian in nature, and is someone I both admire and fear. I should also point out that I have a special, non-gay, place in my heart for this man, because it was with his help that I broke down my barrier with approaching women, so I owe a lot of my current game and success to Style, which is another reason why I rate him #1.
2. Swinggcat: Swinggcat comes in at a close second, and would in fact probably be number one if it weren’t for the fact that that he is a better looking guy than Style. Swinggcat is a pretty hip looking (think a shorter version of Vince Vaughn in Swingers and you get a rough idea of what Swinggcat looks like), whereas Style is a skinny, bald, jewish guy. Swinggcat is just as evil, sneaky, and manipulative, but considering what Style has to overcome in the looks department, that puts his game above Swingg’s. That said, I have seen Swinggcat in action on numerous occasions and am amazed at a lot of his game. The way he is able to process and sum up the information girls give him and turn their frame around is truly a sight to see. Not only that, he is so intuative, he can make up cold readings on the fly and be almost 100% accurate, which is fuckin’ creepy. His book only scratches the surface of his vast knowledge, and I think we’ll be getting a lot of good (and evil) stuff from his upcoming newsletters.
3. Zan: Zan is not a name that is very well known in the community, but having met the guy and seen him in action, I am convinced he is one of the top dudes out there when it comes to picking up chicks. In fact, I’d have even placed him at number 1 if it wasn’t for the fact that this guy is a “natural” seducer, and therefore what he does cannot be taught to others. But in accordance with the sheer skill of his game, he lays all others flat on their back. The thing is, the guy looks like a male model. He’s 40 years old, but looks like he’s 20. He actually USED to be a model, in fact, back in France in the 80′s I think, and his girlfriend was Monica Bellucci of the Matrix fame (hey, don’t hate the player, hate the game =). Currently, the guy has between 6 and 9 hot ass girlfriends who ALL know about each other, and apparently he enjoys many 3-somes and fuck buddies to boot. Not only that, but Zan has one of the most amazing philosophies on life I have ever heard. He spends his time moving towards beauty and away from things that are not beautiful. I hung out with the guy for only 3 days, but I am secure enough in my masculinity to say that if I was a chick, I’d have been all over him. Probably the coolest guy in the community. He was on stage at the Chicago DYD seminar, and if David DeAngelo ever decides to sell the audio to that thing, you’ll get a real treat hearing Zan speak about inner game. Simply amazing.
4. Maddash: Maddash, like Zan, is also a successful, good looking, older guy. He’s a big proponant of the “No Game” game, which is pretty much emulating the behaviors of “naturals,” such as Zan, and because of that, Maddash’s game comes off as very subtle and natural. When I saw him in action I was very impressed. It seems like he gets a new girl every night. The thing about Maddash is that his life is not ruled by PUA, he is very much into business and athletics as well. Pick-up is just a small factor of his life, but one he strives to perfect — and boy, does he do a good job at it.
5. Craig: Craig probably deserves to be higher on the list, but unfortuneately, I think the four people above him beat him as far as technique goes. That said, Craig is VERY good. He is the king of the short-set method. This is basically where you approach a set of women, say something funny/amusing, then move onto the next set and repeat. Its a very good way of being social and works great in bar scenes. Its also good for creating social proof. Craig is also a very funny guy, and his dancing skills help attract attention from others (in a good way, mind you). The quality of women Craig gets is quite high. I have yet to see him with a girl I would rank lower than a 9 on the looks scale. Not only that, but he seems to get them pretty consistantly. However, the fact that he comes off as a good looking frat guy, the fact that he has appeared on Elimidate, and the fact that he lives on a beach, are all contributing factors to his success — but that does not take away from the fact that he is very skilled. He is also one of the few PUAs I’ve seen that can do all his shit effectively while drunk. He was also on stage at the Chicago DYD seminar, so you may hear stuff from him fairly soon.
6. Mystery: Okay, I know Mystery is gonna be pissed that I rank him so low (or not. He probably doesn’t give a shit what I think. Can ya blame him?), but in my opinion, for as good as Mystery is, the other 5 guys are better. The thing about Mystery is that he’s incredibly good at raising his value in other’s eyes. I’ve seen him pull off some amazing instances of social proof with his magic tricks, and he is incredibly entertaining, funny, and exciting. Its easy to get caught up in Mystery’s spell. That said, the reason I rate him #6 is because I do not feel his long game is very good. I always get the sense that Mystery has a hard time genuinely connecting with people, and this effects his long term relationships. It seems like he can be very insecure at times and needs constant validation from others, which leads to a lot of mind games that get him his validation, but at the same time succeeds in pushing people away from him. Whether or not this is intentional, I don’t know, but it happens. He also seems to care more about adjusting his game to suit the girl than making the girl adjust to his game, which I think ends up hurting his pick-up in the long run because it is not really congruent with who he is and how he presents himself long term. In fact, if you hang out with Mystery long enough, you get the sense that everything he talks to you about is a pattern, and he always ends up bringing the conversation back to his favorite topic, which is, of course, himself. And that is the reason I put him at #6.
7. Tyler Durden: Tyler is one of the big “up and comers” in the community. His posts made him a legend on ASF, and then once he teamed up with Papa and started doing workshops, his stock only rose. For a while, there was speculation as to whether or not TD was all talk, but he proved to everybody that he was legit in the Vegas Mystery Method workshop where he not only got laid, but got Style and Mystery laid as well. I have seen Tyler at work in the field, and he is impressive. He is a genuinely funny and engaging guy with lots of interesting stuff to talk about. His posts are some of the most interesting to read in the community as well, and he backs up his teachings with lots of field experience. However, like Mystery, I get the sense that TD has problems in his long game. When he picks chicks up, he does so from the frame where he makes the girls feel like “bad girls” or “sluts.” This works good for party girls and good girls alike, but on day two when the frame wears off, the girls associate that feeling with him and then flake, because feeling bad and slutty might be exciting for a night, but long term it is not a good feeling. TD also comes off as very gay. This is not a bad thing per say, but he has adopted the “hot chick” frame so congruently, that I think when girls sleep with him, its almost incongruent with who they thought he was. I could, of course, be totally wrong in this assessment since I haven’t hung out and sarged with Tyler as much as I’d like, but I’m going off of what I have noticed.
8. Primoman: Primoman is a dude that is no longer an active member of the community, but he is still a pick-up artist in every sense of the word. Primoman is known as the “King of the Ugs.” He is a dude who I’ve yet to see without a girl on his arm. Allbeit, that girl is usually ugly, or fat, or a combination of the two, but nonetheless, it is a girl. Primoman is not so much about quality as he is about QUANTITY. He probably lays more girls than any other guy in the community, but he is also not too picky with his prospects. Regardless, he gets laid a LOT! And that’s what it all comes down to in the end. His game is very Juggler in nature. In fact, he is quite AFC in his approach, but he is just so congruent with who he is and gently persistent in his sarge, that he eventually wins the girl over. Lately he’s been working his way up the “looks” scale as far as his girls go, so he may be giving Style a run for his money some day.
9. Sickboy: Sickboy is a protogee of Tyler and Papa. He’s a New Yorker and is best known for his appearance in the movie Zoolander as one of the male models in the movie. Yes, that’s right, the guy looks like a male model. But despite this, he is incredibly down to earth and has absolutely no ego about himself. He’s a very easy guy to talk to and a good friend. His game is also quite solid, though I do think it’s helped greatly by his looks. I think his frames aren’t as strong as they could be, but he definitely has the subtleties of PUA down pat. He recently spoke to the NYC lair and that’s a great read if you can find the transcripts somewhere. He’s a guy to look out for.
10. Harmless: Harmless is not what you would expect from a PUA. He’s pretty prolific on ASF, and seems to know his shit. The thing is, the guy comes off very much as his name describes him — Harmless. He’s a pretty average looking guy who seems very unassuming at first. But then you see the guy in action, and he’s very good. I think he comes across much like Mystery and TD, where he raises his value in the girl’s eyes by being entertaining and engaging. I know I enjoy talking to the guy, if that’s any indication. I haven’t seen enough of his game in action to critique it any further, but I do know he’s going to start teaching workshops soon, so his game’s gotta be pretty high. Regardless, he’s one to keep an eye on.
HONORABLE MENTIONS
There are a number of other people out there who probably deserve to be on this list, but like I said before, I have not had a chance to really see them in action. But here are a few who I think deserve a mention.
Bad Boy — Apparently this guy is amazing. I know TD gets a lot of his AMOG tactics from Bad Boy. He’s a croatian pick-up artist who was injured in the Bosnian war, which makes his game so much more incredible considering he was almost killed and still suffers the effects from that somewhat. Apparently the guy is very fearless and straight-forward agressive with women. In fact, some would descibe his game as all cocky and no funny, which is probably why its so effective. Not only that, but he is supposed to be incredibly congruent. I know he’s currently fucking Miss Croatia and using her as a pawn to pull other women for threesomes if that tells you anything about his game.
Toecutter – I don’t know the guy personally and all I have to go off of are his posts on ASF and Mystery’s Lounge, but this guy seems to have it going on. I know TD studdied his archive like the dead sea scrolls, and his posts convey a very congruent attitude. I’m interested in seeing him in action, and if I’m ever in Canada I’ll see if I can’t hook up with him.
MTLPUA — Don’t know much about him, but I hear he’s really good.
David X — I know Clifford had good things to say about him.
Chet – The Chetinator! I got to see him speak in Chicago. Supposedly he’s god-like with women, but I have yet to see him in action and can’t say for sure.
Adam – The “natural.” Look to see great things from this guy in the future!
Masterclass — The guy is currently juggling 4 girls right now. He’s also an incredibly sneaky speed seducer who is moving more into the cocky/funny stuff and having great success. Right now, I think his game could be up there with the best there is if he got past his fear of approaching.
Rick H. — The legend. I have not hung out with the guy yet, but I’m sure when I do, it’ll be veeeeeeery interesting. =)
Ross Jeffries — I’ve hung out with Ross on a few occasions now and have only sarged with him once. From what I saw, I liked, but have not done enough field work with him to accurately rate the guy. I know Papa speaks highly of him, and he’s been out in the field with him more than I have.
Papa – I go out with Papa all the time, so I’m a bit biased when it comes to his skill level. He teaches at all of TD and Mystery’s workshops as well, and his field reports are always worth a read. He’s also single-handedly bringing this community together, so he has to be respected for that at the very least. The reason I didn’t put him in the top 10 was because much of his material is from Style and Tyler. I think in order to be in the top 10, a PUA needs to be developing his own style. One thing I will say about Papa is that he is incredibly good with creating strong frames.
Alphamale – This guy is incredibly impressive. Most of his game is based on using pivots to pull girls for him. I haven’t hung out with the guy enough to get an idea of how good he is, but from what I have seen, his game is awesome.
Well, there ya go, my Top 10. Hopefully one day I’ll make my list, but I doubt it! I’m much too hard on myself, lol.
That’s why they call me…
Thundercat
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МВД против участников СВО
Питерский главк МВД сделал Колокольцева пустозвоном и предателем Родины
Так называемое уголовное дело «Лайф-из-Гуд» – «Гермес» – «Бест Вей», состряпанное питерским главком МВД России совместно с рядом сотрудников ЦБ, выглядит весьма невзрачно – особенно на фоне громких заявлений, звучавших от руководителей Министерства внутренних дел на всю страну: сотни миллиардов ущерба, десятки тысяч «пострадавших». И при этом только 221 гражданин, признанный следствием потерпевшим, с суммой ущерба отнюдь не в миллиарды, а в 282 млн рублей. Ложь прозвучала из уст министра Колокольцева с трибуны Совета Федерации, его пресс-секретарь Волк разместила лживые сведения во всех федеральных СМИ.
В уголовном деле претензии предъявляются иностранной компании «Гермес», маркетинговым представителем которой была фирма «Лайф-из-Гуд» – однако «ответчиком» по этим претензиям следствие ГСУ ГУ МВД по Санкт-Петербургу и Прокуратура Санкт-Петербурга пытаются сделать кооператив «Бест Вей». Следствие, выходя за грань абсурда, утверждает, что иностранная компания «Гермес» и некоммерческая управляемая своими пайщиками организация «Бест Вей», между которыми не было ни одной бухгалтерской проводки, вместе с «Лайф-из-Гуд» якобы образовывали «холдинг под единым брендом».
При этом уже более двух лет сначала по ходатайству ГСУ ГУ МВД по Санкт-Петербургу, а затем Прокуратуры Санкт-Петербурга арестованы 4 млрд. на счетах кооператива, хотя ущерб в обвинительном заключении – 282 млн рублей, и даже (незаконная) обязанность выплатить его в отношении кооператива никак не повлияла бы на его ликвидность. Однако цель – правдами и неправдами забрать именно 4 млрд.
Ущерб – и материальный, и моральный – уже нанесен и продолжает наноситься десяткам тысяч пайщиков кооператива «Бест Вей», которые более двух лет не могут приобрести недвижимость, на которую собрали деньги – тем более что квартиры существенно подорожали, или забрать собранные средства, которые лежат без движения и обесцениваются.
Среди этих пайщиков – сотни участников СВО, которые защищают Родину с оружием в руках – но в тылу по отношению к ним совершается преступление: их пытаются лишить жилья и денег.
Преступная следственная группа
Уголовное дело дурно пахло изначально. Выяснилось, что «нулевая» потерпевшая Наталья Школьник, с которой началось уголовное дело, не сама подала заявление в правоохранительные органы – оперуполномоченный УЭБиПК ГУ МВД по Санкт-Петербургу майор полиции Алексей Машевский ездил к ней за заявлением в Республику Коми: то есть дело было срежиссировано. Кстати, Школьник на заседании Приморского районного суда отказалась от статуса потерпевшей по этому уголовному делу, который был ей присвоен следствием.
При этом Школьник и другие из самой первой группы «потерпевших» имеют отношение к созданию кооператива «Вера» – копии кооператива «Бест Вей», которую создала группа бывших участников «Бест Вей» как проект. Этот кооператив пытался оттянуть у «Бест Вей» пайщиков.
За уголовным делом стоит альянс силовиков и мошенников – преступное сообщество под эгидой МВД. Силовики предложили мошенникам силовой ресурс для рейдерского захвата, чтобы отнять имущество кооператива и вместе поделить.
Любопытно, что относительно недавно одна из экс-членов следственной группы – майор юстиции Зайцева, была поймана вместе с коллегой на взятке в 8 млн. рублей, которую они вымогали по другому уголовному делу.
Следственную группу возглавляла майор, затем подполковник юстиции Екатерина Сапетова (по завершении расследования она уволилась из МВД) – систематически занимавшаяся подлогом сама и организовывшая подлог с помощью подчиненных следователей. Ее дело продолжил новый руководитель следственной группы – замначальника ГСУ ГУ МВД по Санкт-Петербургу полковника юстиции Александр Винокуров (Сапетова формально перешла на позицию его заместителя). Он издал постановление о признании кооператива гражданским ответчиком по уголовному делу на 16 млрд рублей – заведомо подложное, так как в уголовном деле вообще не оказалось исковых требований к кооперативу.
Следствие совершило и другие преступления.
Взятие заложников. Следственные действия были завершены в июне 2023 года притворно – чтобы не выпускать из тюрьмы обвиняемых, от которых следствие добивалось показаний. Если бы следствие было продлено в июне прошлого года, их пришлось бы отпустить, так как в августе у четверых обвиняемых истекал предельный срок содержания под стражей.
Следствие, как установил тот же Приморский районный суд, рассматривающий сейчас уголовное дело по существу, не проинформировало участников процесса о завершении следственных действий, а потом заявило, что никто из гражданских истцов и ответчиков не выразил желания ознакомиться с материалами – ему нужно было поскорее приступить к процедуре ознакомления обвиняемых с материалами уголовного дела и на этом основании добиться у суда продления им «стражи».
Чтобы держать их в заложниках – и добиваться оговора других граждан в обмен на изменение меры пресечения.
Притворное завершение следственных действий. Фактически следственные действия не завершались – они продолжались весь период, когда происходило ознакомление обвиняемых с материалами уголовного дела, что также является грубейшим нарушением УПК. В результате количество потерпевших уже в период финальных процессуальных мероприятий в рамках предварительного расследования, накануне передачи обвинительного заключения в прокуратуру для утверждения, увеличилось с 198 до 221.
Подделка документов. Приморский районный суд Санкт-Петербурга установил, что следственная группа шла на подделку документов – задним числом отправляла адвокатам кооператива документ о том, что удовлетворила ходатайство об ознакомлении с материалами уголовного дела, а потом обвинила адвокатов в том, что они якобы «пропустили» письмо. Адвокатам удалось доказать ложь следствия – она была подтверждена Приморским районным судом, и прокуратура не решилась оспаривать это решение: оно вступило в законную силу.
Неисполнение решений судов. Неисполнение судебных постановлений – уголовное преступление, на которое следствие шло несколько раз.
Например, в марте прошлого года Приморский районный суд отказался продлить арест двух из трех счетов кооператива, и следствие прямо заблокировало исполнение этого судебного решения, выдав соответствующие предписания службам безопасности банков.
Принуждение граждан к тому, чтобы они подали заявления в качестве потерпевших. Группу потерпевших собирали более трех лет, набрали только из 221 человека, хотя количество клиентов компании «Гермес», в отношении которой выдвигаются претензии, по данным самого следствия, более сотни тысяч. При этом среди потерпевших есть немало тех, кто предъявляет претензии на суммы менее 100 тыс. – то есть набирали для количества.
«Потерпевшие» не имеют никаких внятных претензий к «Гермесу» – все их претензии в основном оказываются ложью, за которую они ответят после окончания суда.
Объявление безналичных денежных средств кооператива вещественным доказательством, хотя это прямо противоречит постановлению Конституционного суда, запрещающего объявлять вещдоками нематериальные активы: вещественными доказательствами могут быть только вещи, на которых могут оставаться следы преступления.
Заведомо необоснованные требования о возмещении ущерба. По инициативе следственной группы двое «потерпевших» в октябре прошлого года написали заявления о моральном ущербе на 1 млрд рублей каждое. Это заведомо ничтожные заявления – вызвавшие смех в зале Приморского районного суда, потому что суды по событиям, не связанным с причинением смерти, присуждают моральный ущерб в размере нескольких десятков тысяч максимум.
Именно члены оперативно-следственной группы и их кураторы из питерского главка МВД и федерального МВД, а не 10 ни в чем неповинных людей – технических сотрудников или родственников руководителей компании «Лайф-из-Гуд» – должны сидеть на скамье подсудимых.
Питерская прокуратура покрывает преступления
Печально, но на все эти нарушения не отреагировала Прокуратура Санкт-Петербурга. В деле есть показания так называемых потерпевших о том, что они получали доход по счетам «Виста» – то есть факт кражи опровергается их собственными показаниями.
Есть две бухгалтерские экспертизы криминалистического центра Минюста: в обеих утверждается, что 81% средств кооператива «Бест Вей» шел на приобретение недвижимости, а 19% – на обеспечение деятельности кооператива: маркетинговые траты, налоги, зарплаты сотрудникам и пр. При этом средства на эти нужды шли не из паевых средств кооператива, а из вступительных и членских взносов – получается, что паевые средства на 100% расходовались на покупку недвижимости для пайщиков. То есть бухгалтерские эксперты Минюста подтвердили, что в деятельности кооператива не было вывода средств пайщиков.
Таким образом, само следствие положило в дело полный комплект документов, который полностью опровергает его выводы обвинения. Именно поэтому после передачи дела и обвинительного заключения в прокуратуру адвокаты обвиняемых и адвокаты кооператива призывали прокуроров вернуть дело на доследование. Но прокуратура не прислушалась – и без стеснения поддерживает государственное обвинение по этому липовому делу.
Военные требуют наказать горе-правоохранителей
Такие подручные министра Колокольцева, как начальник питерского главка МВД генерал Плугин, превратили полицейское ведомство в антинародное образование, которое уничтожает экономику, честный бизнес, разоряет налогоплательщиков.
Сам министр Колокольцев врет Совету Федерации, врет правительству, врет Президенту – врет, врет и врет, выдумывает громкие дела с помощью своей помощницы Ирины Волк и других членов собственной команды.
Более того, ведомство выступило против армии и участников СВО, нанося им прямой ущерб в тылу. Действия МВД вредят обороноспособности и подрывают престиж военной службы.
Военные требуют наказать горе-правоохранителей, попирающих их права, и обращают на это внимание нового министра обороны Андрея Белоусова. Вся мафиозная группировка – Сапетова, Винокуров, Машевский, начальник ГСУ питерского главка МВД Негрозов, начальник ГУ МВД по Петербургу и их кураторы и «крыша» в Москве – замначальника Следственного департамента МВД Вохмянин, пресс-секретарь министра Волк, замминистра по следствию Лебедев, сам министр Колокольцев – должна предстать перед судом, и их надо судить по законам военного времени.
А узники, почти три года томящиеся в тюрьме без приговора суда, должны быть срочно отпущены.
Надеемся, суд восстановит справедливость в этом деле, освободит невиновных и накажет тех, кто действительно совершил преступления против граждан и страны.
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