No Such Thing as “Rejection”
March 29, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Tips & Tricks
Neo-Rio posted this sucker in the General forum of mASF:
Neo-Rio writes:
There is no such thing as “rejection”What there is though:
* Women trying to game you by being C&F or playing hard to get. So, if they’re actively trying to game you, then how is THAT rejection?
* Women thinking about sex too much. If they’re horny, the harder they’ll try to game you… even if sex wasn’t your intention when meeting her. (Which explains why “bitches” simultaneously dress hot and go out and “reject” guys for no reason.)
* Performance anxiety in an attempt to seduce men.For men, the only rejection possible is SELF-REJECTION.
So really, getting over the fear of “rejection” is understanding that:-
* Not approaching women with the intention of having sex with them UNTIL you have screened them. Get sex off the brain. Concentrate on rapport. This mindset in itself makes approaching effortless and fearless.
* Understanding that being bitched out is actually a GOOD thing, and is nothing bad at all. Her reaction to you is nothing you need to be concerned about, because it (despite all appearances) is actually something good going for you. There is no need to fight back or get angry once you know what’s really going on in her head.
* Take sex out of the equation. By using a neg, or just LJBFing her right from the start, you drop her ASD. Also, you take her sexuality away from her so she can’t use it as a weapon against you.
* Note that by taking sex out of the equation… while you drop her ASD and resistance… you raise her performance anxiety. No longer the old tricks she used to get men are working now! She is now in unchartered territory, which is scary, so be gentle.
Interesting post. I’m not sure I completely agree because I think Neo is giving the girl a little too much power in the interaction with this perspective. I think if you’re getting rejected, it’s most likely the material you’re using isn’t strong enough and the girl isn’t reacting to it like she’s supposed to. As Swinggcat likes to say “It’s not you, it’s the material.”
You can read the whole thread here.
No Such Thing as “Rejection”
March 29, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Tips & Tricks
Neo-Rio posted this sucker in the General forum of mASF:
Neo-Rio writes:
There is no such thing as “rejection”What there is though:
* Women trying to game you by being C&F or playing hard to get. So, if they’re actively trying to game you, then how is THAT rejection?
* Women thinking about sex too much. If they’re horny, the harder they’ll try to game you… even if sex wasn’t your intention when meeting her. (Which explains why “bitches” simultaneously dress hot and go out and “reject” guys for no reason.)
* Performance anxiety in an attempt to seduce men.For men, the only rejection possible is SELF-REJECTION.
So really, getting over the fear of “rejection” is understanding that:-
* Not approaching women with the intention of having sex with them UNTIL you have screened them. Get sex off the brain. Concentrate on rapport. This mindset in itself makes approaching effortless and fearless.
* Understanding that being bitched out is actually a GOOD thing, and is nothing bad at all. Her reaction to you is nothing you need to be concerned about, because it (despite all appearances) is actually something good going for you. There is no need to fight back or get angry once you know what’s really going on in her head.
* Take sex out of the equation. By using a neg, or just LJBFing her right from the start, you drop her ASD. Also, you take her sexuality away from her so she can’t use it as a weapon against you.
* Note that by taking sex out of the equation… while you drop her ASD and resistance… you raise her performance anxiety. No longer the old tricks she used to get men are working now! She is now in unchartered territory, which is scary, so be gentle.
Interesting post. I’m not sure I completely agree because I think Neo is giving the girl a little too much power in the interaction with this perspective. I think if you’re getting rejected, it’s most likely the material you’re using isn’t strong enough and the girl isn’t reacting to it like she’s supposed to. As Swinggcat likes to say “It’s not you, it’s the material.”
You can read the whole thread here.
Going Out Alone
March 29, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Tips & Tricks
Some dude who goes by Canadianguy posts about going out alone in the General forum of mASF.
Canadianguy writes:
A lot of the time lately, I’m finding I have nobody to go to clubs with on friday or saturday nights. So I usually don’t go, I end up wasting it. LAME.
I need to go out by myself, but when I’ve tried in the past it wasn’t so fun. Any tips on how to make clubbing solo fun?
Sirducer chimes in…
Opening in a Closed Society
March 29, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Tips & Tricks
Acolyte had a pretty interesting post in the Advanced forum of mASF about the difficulty of Opening in a “closed-off” atmosphere. I have to admit, this thread interested me because I’ve had similar experiences in certain places that I found “cliquey,” (or however you spell it). Anyway, here’s what he had to say:
Acolyte writes:
As I don’t feel this is a simple, general issue, I’m posting this in advanced. I’m sure if it were simple, my wings and myself would have worked it out already!Formhandle, if you don’t agree with this, please feel free to move it to where you see fit.
Myself and my wings have been hitting our heads time and again in-field. We live in Cape Town – a place known (not only by locals, but also by people in other cities in South Africa) as being, “cliquey”. People go out in order to “be seen”. I don’t know of anyone here that goes out looking forward to MEET PEOPLE and have a good time. The Field-Reports etc that we read here on ASF are TOTALLY non-applicable to here – the ‘scene’ just isn’t like that in our experience.
Opening here is a bloody nightmare. People here are just NOT open to it.
Where we see people making-out in clubs, its with the people they came there with OR someone that managed to by them enough drinks and was good-looking enough that she didn’t run away from his cavemanning throughout the night. And, even in those situations, we don’t see these girls LEAVING with those guys – merely kissing etc. The girls go home the same way they came.
So, how the fuck DO we meet people here? Social groups – school, college, university (and even there you can be in a class all year and never get to speak to everyone). I met many people through the band I used to manage for 3 years – networking. Basically this (as myself and my wings see it), is a result of there needing to be MASSIVE amounts of “familiarity” before people will BEGIN to be open to pursue rapport with you. Otherwise, they’re not interested.
Society here seems to (generally) be very LSE, but with many arrogant jock dickheads – these are the guys responsible for raising these girls Bitch-shields so crazy-high. We go out to clubs and see drunk jock morons groping and feeling their way through the masses, beating their chests and clinking beermugs. Sadly, our “celebrities” here are NOT musicians / actors etc. but are our rugby-players etc. Bummer, hey?
So where does this leave a guy desiring to study pickup? A lot of what we’re seeing here is reminiscent of what TD once described of sarging the high-society clubs in LA. Although, strangely, we can’t work out if we’re getting LOCKUP, or BLOWN-OUT. Strangely I feel its a combination of both.
There doesn’t seem to be any such thing as a singles club here. Even our pool-bars are too loud to talk in (and hence run game (for the most part)).
Mystery speaks of telling a girl his “back-story” (about his carreer etc) for 25 minutes as part of his game…. No. Not gonna happen. Any routine longer than about 3 seconds is waaaaaay too long in our experience.
So, the question stands – How the hell do you open here?
So then Veroxii chimes in with his perspective…
Is “Fool’s Mate” Bullshit?
March 26, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Tips & Tricks
Wow, it seems we have a lot of Mystery love on the Lair this week. I guess it’s only appropriate to cap it off with one last, great post from Mystery for the weekend. Of course, things from the Mystery camp may be a bit hard to come by in the oncoming weeks due to Mystery taking a month off from the Internet, so you better enjoy it while it lasts!
This last thread was started by tigger in the Advanced forum on mASF to talk about the concept of “Fool’s Mate” (the idea of getting laid by accident, aka “Getting Lucky,” without the use of skills or tactics). Tyler has some great replies on this thread as well, but the one Mystery wrote really stuck out at me, especially because… well… he gives away part of his upcoming book!!!!!!!
So I guess this is a sneak peak of what you can expect from Mystery’s big book debut, along with some great insight on the topic of “Fool’s Mate.” Read on:
Is “Fool’s Mate” Bullshit?
March 26, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Tips & Tricks
Wow, it seems we have a lot of Mystery love on the Lair this week. I guess it’s only appropriate to cap it off with one last, great post from Mystery for the weekend. Of course, things from the Mystery camp may be a bit hard to come by in the oncoming weeks due to Mystery taking a month off from the Internet, so you better enjoy it while it lasts!
This last thread was started by tigger in the Advanced forum on mASF to talk about the concept of “Fool’s Mate” (the idea of getting laid by accident, aka “Getting Lucky,” without the use of skills or tactics). Tyler has some great replies on this thread as well, but the one Mystery wrote really stuck out at me, especially because… well… he gives away part of his upcoming book!!!!!!!
So I guess this is a sneak peak of what you can expect from Mystery’s big book debut, along with some great insight on the topic of “Fool’s Mate.” Read on:
Why Comfort?
March 26, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Tips & Tricks
A guy who goes by Gatto posts this question to Mystery:
Gatto writes:
I understand that the feeling of comfort and trust is one of the emotional states that you have to put the chick into.These emotional states will eventually have to end in an horny or “want to have sex now” state.
My questions are:
1) Is isolation location the only reason why you separated comfort building as a different stage ? (at the end of the mutual attraction stage you isolate to comfort location that should be not too isolated like your house for example and at the end of the comfort stage you isolate to a sex location that she will accept because of the comfort and trust you built.)
2) There are cases in which she may get horny without comfort. I’ll quote MrSex, tell me what you think about it: “I don’t want her to trust me. I want her to enter a mental/emotional state where she wants to get fucked and then I want her to get down into doggie-position. ok, so I am joking there, but bitches are not that smart. they don’t pay that much attention to detail. all they are paying attention to is HOW THEY FEEL because of your presence. what if her “not trusting me” makes her FEEL “this guy is untrustworthy… dangerous… he might fuck me at any time… I feel horny”
Mystery responds…
Developmental Map of PUA, a-la Tyler Durden
March 26, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Tips & Tricks
Tyler put up a post on the Advanced forum of mASF which I found struck quite a chord with me. This is because I think what he talks about in this post relates almost EXACTLY to what I’m going through right now. I mean, TD always has good posts. But I think this one hits home with lots of guys who are either starting out or feel they are spinning their wheels.
Anyway, the post is as follows…
Put your Money where Mystery’s Mouth Is…
March 26, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Drama & Rumors
Well, it’s been a while since we’ve had a little Mystery Video Scandal, so I guess we were due for another one.
Mystery recently got a new girlfriend. She’s a rather pretty and peppy Russian girl who I got to meet when I ran into Mystery on 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica a few days back. Frankly, I think the girl is gorgeous. Very much my type physically. Mystery seems to agree. So he made a little video to show her off to the masses, and posted it on mASF. Of course, after a few congratulatory posts, the wolves came out to feed…
Gunwitch writes:
Shes a 10?I mean not to be a dick. I admire your courage for coming out and saying finally that you do use sexual state stuff. Agree totally with the identity post.
But come on "you dont know what good IS!" "ELITE BEST WOMEN!" stuff youve talked before.
Shes an 8 socially, maybe YOUR 10, maybe a fine human being, she seems sweet enough and like a decent person. But a perfect hb 10 that you will only accept?
Maybe finally allow personal taste to come in to play for a change. EVERY chick you bang isnt a perfect hb 10 to ALL men.
No offense intended, cool ya got proof, shows once and for all ya aint just a poof, but ya gotta know taste varies, dont brag about hotties when ya aint got them fine butts, dont drag other guys guys bitches down when its all about your own nutts.
Ah, with such poetic musings as that, it’s no wonder Gunwitch can woo so many women! Regardless, the gauntlet was thrown, and Gunwitch took Mystery to task for his bragging about getting some of the HOTTEST women around. This, of course, warrents a response back from the Mystery Man himself…
Put your Money where Mystery’s Mouth Is…
March 26, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Drama & Rumors
Well, it’s been a while since we’ve had a little Mystery Video Scandal, so I guess we were due for another one.
Mystery recently got a new girlfriend. She’s a rather pretty and peppy Russian girl who I got to meet when I ran into Mystery on 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica a few days back. Frankly, I think the girl is gorgeous. Very much my type physically. Mystery seems to agree. So he made a little video to show her off to the masses, and posted it on mASF. Of course, after a few congratulatory posts, the wolves came out to feed…
Gunwitch writes:
Shes a 10?I mean not to be a dick. I admire your courage for coming out and saying finally that you do use sexual state stuff. Agree totally with the identity post.
But come on "you dont know what good IS!" "ELITE BEST WOMEN!" stuff youve talked before.
Shes an 8 socially, maybe YOUR 10, maybe a fine human being, she seems sweet enough and like a decent person. But a perfect hb 10 that you will only accept?
Maybe finally allow personal taste to come in to play for a change. EVERY chick you bang isnt a perfect hb 10 to ALL men.
No offense intended, cool ya got proof, shows once and for all ya aint just a poof, but ya gotta know taste varies, dont brag about hotties when ya aint got them fine butts, dont drag other guys guys bitches down when its all about your own nutts.
Ah, with such poetic musings as that, it’s no wonder Gunwitch can woo so many women! Regardless, the gauntlet was thrown, and Gunwitch took Mystery to task for his bragging about getting some of the HOTTEST women around. This, of course, warrents a response back from the Mystery Man himself…
“Reality” check.
March 26, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Tips & Tricks
A guy by the handle x-code wrote an interesting post in the General forum of mASF about the feasability of combining the NLP and PUA schools of thought into one all-encompassing system. Here’s what he had to say:
x-code writes:
What I have been thinking about recently … It seems that there are at least two PU ‘schools’. The first one is NLP-based and focuses on mirroring, eliciting values, trance words and patterning. The other one is more focused on improving the inner game, by becoming a highly valuable male whom women are ready to chase and pursue – ‘recognize that you are the prize’ to quote the signature of one of the regular posters.No, I don’t mean one can completely disregard the inner game if he chooses the NLP/patterning route – AND I would like to warn some newbies who mistakenly think that learning trancing skills is enough for getting laid.
My point is rather how to combine both of the approaches to get better results. Can we, for example, become more desirable men by learning the patterning stuff and use our skills of controlling the women’s state as a REWARD rather than a tool?
I know I sound not that consistent, but these are my raw thoughts I’d like to share and discuss with you.
I thought Tyler had an interesting reply…
“Reality” check.
March 26, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Tips & Tricks
A guy by the handle x-code wrote an interesting post in the General forum of mASF about the feasability of combining the NLP and PUA schools of thought into one all-encompassing system. Here’s what he had to say:
x-code writes:
What I have been thinking about recently … It seems that there are at least two PU ‘schools’. The first one is NLP-based and focuses on mirroring, eliciting values, trance words and patterning. The other one is more focused on improving the inner game, by becoming a highly valuable male whom women are ready to chase and pursue – ‘recognize that you are the prize’ to quote the signature of one of the regular posters.No, I don’t mean one can completely disregard the inner game if he chooses the NLP/patterning route – AND I would like to warn some newbies who mistakenly think that learning trancing skills is enough for getting laid.
My point is rather how to combine both of the approaches to get better results. Can we, for example, become more desirable men by learning the patterning stuff and use our skills of controlling the women’s state as a REWARD rather than a tool?
I know I sound not that consistent, but these are my raw thoughts I’d like to share and discuss with you.
I thought Tyler had an interesting reply…
Out-Alphaed by Betas?
March 26, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
Man o’ man, did I have a crappy night of sarging!
So I’m bored with the Hollywood scene and have been exploring the surrounding areas for cool (or at least different) places to pick up women, and last night I decided to go to the San Fernando Valley for a change of scenery. So I went to a club there that was pretty jumping for a Thursday night.
This place TOTALLY reminded me of clubs I used to go to in college. The girls there were, on average, 6-8s on the looks scale. For the most part, they were all packing a little "junk in the trunk" if you know what I mean. A real change of pace from the model-esque Hollywood types.
So I get a few drinks in me and start approaching set after set. I open one — BOOM! Crash and burn. No energy at all. I open another — BOOM! Same thing. After about five or six sets, I’m noticing a pattern. I can’t understand what the hell is wrong with these interactions, because I’m using pretty good field tested material that I KNOW works. But for some reason, I’m failing to hook the girls.
Upon talking with a friend of mine after the club closes, I began to realize what happened. Every single guy in that club was a Beta. They were so Beta, in fact, that the only approaching being done was by women. They’d choose which guys they liked and then they would approach the men and start flirting. I saw this happen numerous times, but it didn’t click with me until afterwards. However, when I was going into set and controlling the interaction, the girls would get uncomfortable — because I wasn’t being Beta. It’s almost as if the very ACT of approaching raised my value so high I blew myself out.
This is mind boggling to me, and I’m curious if other guys have had similar experiences. Granted, my material is not the strongest stuff in the world, but I can usually get into a set by using it. The fact that the very act of approaching would blow me out is such a foriegn concept to me — I mean, I wouldn’t even GET to most of my material because the sets would stall out so quickly.
I’ve noticed similar episodes occur whenever I’d sarge outside of LA. Places like Washington D.C., Pennsylvania, and Chicago were very much like this club I was in tonight, and it dawned on me that this is very much the way "normal" people hook up. My perspective gets so skewed going into Hollywood and hitting on a crowd that’s used to a certain atmosphere and certain stimuli, that I forget there is a whole other world out there with different perceptions on how things work.
I’m often reminded of a conversation I had with Tyler D. up in Chicago when I was bitching about the "cliquiness" of the women up there, and he simply told me "Dude, EVERYPLACE except New York and LA is like this. You Hollywood guys are fuckin’ SPOILED, yo!"
I guess tonight proved him right.
LA PUA Summit Details
March 25, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under News
Word just in from Papa on the Los Angeles PUA Summit next month:
Papa writes:
Hey Guys,Our next PLAY Meeting will be for the 2004 PUA Summit – Spring 2004 (sponsored by FastSeduction.com). The program will take place all day at the Project Hollywood Mansion at 1317 Londonderry Place on April 3-4. If you have trouble finding the venue, you can call me at 608-345-2166 (do not call unless you cannot find us).
Below are the details…
Location : Project Hollywood Mansion, LA. Meet in front of Mel’s Diner on Sunset Strip April 3 at 12pm to be brought to the location for the free seminars.
Come meet and learn from the BEST in the game, including:
(in alphabetical order to preserve egos)
Craig
Formhandle
Harmless
Mystery
Papa
Playboy LA
MINE’99
Style
Swinggcat
The One
Thundercat
Tyler DAnd more special guests…
Admission is FREE for all ASF members and their friends. FREE mini-seminars and lectures will be held April 3-4.
Wow, it looks like quite a line-up there. I’m curious to see if there can truely be a peaceful meeting of all those egos… especially considering most are not on very good terms with MINE’99 at the moment.
Also, on a personal note, I had no idea I was included on the list of speakers. I’m a bit uncomfortable being grouped with the BEST in the game. I mean, there are things I excell at. I’m great at approaching, I can do cocky-funny with the best of them, and I’m getting pretty good at push-pull, but I am far, FAR from the best. If people are looking to learn, there are better people to learn from out there than myself.
I wasn’t asked if I wanted to be a guest speaker at the PUA summit. I’d love to be there and meet everyone, but honestly, it depends on if my schedule will permit it. I may be out of town that weekend. And frankly, I think I’d be a bit out of place among some of those guys. They’re all, for the most part, friends of mine, but when it comes to skill level, I’m outshined in every respect.
I’d be interested in hearing from you guys on this subject. If any of you are planning to attend this Summit, would you really WANT to hear me speak and maybe give a mini-seminar about something? Do you think I’m worth your valuable time to listen to? Or would you rather spend that time getting more info from the REALLY GOOD guys? If there’s a big enough demand for it, I guess I’ll try and make the summit and speak, but if not, I may as well just forget about basking in the spotlight of internet fame. =)
So respond and let me know what you think.
Hit the “Grounding” Running
March 25, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis
So Mystery’s first article for Thundercat’s Seduction Lair has been posted. What a way to start it off, eh? Frankly, I think this is the best write-up from anyone in the community that I’ve read in a long, long time. In fact, I probably haven’t been this excited about a concept since the dark ages when Bishop introduced the groundbreaking tactic of “fractionation” on the SS list! lol.
As you can see, I’ve started an archive for Mystery’s articles to the site under the “Categories” section on the right column of the page. All of the articles Mystery posts here will be archived there for easy reference.
As far as this article goes, I think the concept of “Grounding” is nothing short of brilliant. I mean, the basis of this can be found in Juggler’s archive, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard it explained in such a way before. I can remember driving Mystery back to Hollywood after a night of Strip Club sarging in the valley and listening to him talk about this concept, and just being in awe of it.
Grounding is a powerful concept, and one that I think will change the way people game chicks. There’s a school of thought out there that’s pretty prevalent, about “Never give a girl a direct answer, except for NO,” which I think in the long term is counter-productive to picking up women (I know I’ve blown myself out of a few sets by doing this). Grounding is really powerful because not only does it strengthen rapport and connection with your target, but it also SUCKS them into your reality. It creates YOUR story, in which your target becomes a character. It forces them to relate to YOU! Which means that they are chasing you.
I’ve gotten to experiment with this idea of Grounding a bit, and so far, I’m liking the results. You do have to put some thought into it. But another benefit is that it really is YOUR story. One person’s Grounding routine is different from everyone elses, and that makes you unique. Something that’s very important when gaming a girl, because it makes you stand out from the crowd.
Now onto some thoughts I want to cover from Myster’s article.
Mystery wrote:
Thundercat’s misunderstanding between a person’s customized style and the game plan or method he uses to systematically convey his unique personality concerns me. This is because only a few days ago did we share a 3:00am meal at a diner after our visit to an exotic dance club together.During our meal Thundercat himself admitted that he doesn’t possess a strong identity as I do. I will attempt to resolve his misunderstanding between STYLE and METHOD as well as reveal some insights on how to specifically customize material to convey a unique identity (for both you and my friend Thundercat). Once you customize your material to fit your chosen “strong identity” will you no doubt make others who watch you work wrongfully assume it is your particular identity that gets you the girls and not the method that powers the conveying of it.
Mystery is right. As a seducer, I don’t feel I have a strong identity yet because so much of this stuff is outside my reality of what is possible. Like so many other guys out there, I struggle with inner game issues and self-limiting beliefs daily. When I see Mystery work his stuff, it really is amazing to witness.
When Mystery makes the distinction between “Style” and “Method,” I think it’s an important one. Mystery has a method, and it is not only teachable, but it WORKS. The post of mine Mystery was referring to was my observations on how Mystery himself creates his value in sarges. I think that Mystery has DEFINITELY created a style that best suits him. But when you see his style in action, though it may be representative of his method, it is so foriegn to the average guy, that it is almost on a different level of reality. Which is why I think Tyler is so popular, because he can do the same thing as Mystery because TD follows roughly the same method, but in a way TD’s STYLE is more relatable to the average guy because it isn’t tailored to things like outrageous clothes and magic tricks.
The fact is, you don’t need magic tricks for Mystery Method to be effective, and I think Tyler is representative of that. But I’ve been out with Mystery before, and he has geared himself so completely to the process of Picking Up women, that he can blow a guy out of set just by walking within eyesight of the girl! I don’t know about you guys, but he’s the ONLY person I’ve ever seen do that. And it’s for that reason I have a hard time relating to Mystery’s style of Pick-Up. It’s almost like he’s a superhero with that kind of a skillset. His style that he’s tailored for himself is so amazing and so effective, that I feel it’s almost removed from the grasp of us mere mortals.
That’s why I find PUAs like Style and Tyler Durden so fascinating. These guys are some of the best in the game. They are both student’s of Mystery, and more or less follow Mystery Method. But they are able to achieve great success using styles of pick-up that I feel ARE within my grasp to learn, which was the point of the original post that Mystery quoted.
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