Is “Fool’s Mate” Bullshit?

March 26, 2004 by  
Filed under Tips & Tricks

Wow, it seems we have a lot of Mystery love on the Lair this week. I guess it’s only appropriate to cap it off with one last, great post from Mystery for the weekend. Of course, things from the Mystery camp may be a bit hard to come by in the oncoming weeks due to Mystery taking a month off from the Internet, so you better enjoy it while it lasts!

This last thread was started by tigger in the Advanced forum on mASF to talk about the concept of “Fool’s Mate” (the idea of getting laid by accident, aka “Getting Lucky,” without the use of skills or tactics). Tyler has some great replies on this thread as well, but the one Mystery wrote really stuck out at me, especially because… well… he gives away part of his upcoming book!!!!!!!

So I guess this is a sneak peak of what you can expect from Mystery’s big book debut, along with some great insight on the topic of “Fool’s Mate.” Read on:

Mystery writes:
Let me further define the issue of what fool’s mate means. There are 3 stages to a full monty (that is why my method is called M3) … from meet to sex. they are ATTRACT –> COMFORT –> SEDUCE. Pretty simple so far. But some guys begin at the end (SEDUCE)! Here is an excerpt from my upcoming book:


M3 Sequencing Mistake # 1: To Begin at The End

The Seducer

The most common error beginners make is to focus on seducing a woman first instead of attracting her. This is like putting the cart before the horse. Often, to beautiful women in particular, seduction first is little more than the equivalent of saying, “You don’t know me but will you sleep with me?” There is a time (and a place) to begin the seduction stage, but it’s not until you first have attraction and comfort (as well as privacy).

Fool’s Mate

In the game of chess, it is possible to win in only three moves. This gambit is called fool’s mate. Winning with speed via fool’s mate does not however make you a chess champion. If anything, it only demonstrates your opponent’s inexperience. An experienced chess player will not even attempt a fast fool’s mate for, if the opponent doesn’t take the bait, he leaves the player in a weak position. Similarly, while it is possible to seduce with speed, it is much less probable on a woman who is socially experienced. In the venusian arts, we refer to seduction first tactics as fool’s mate for the metaphorical similarity. Instead, both chess champions and venusian artists prefer to play a solid game.

One tactic a seducer will employ is to shamelessly pray on a lot of women. Though the percentage of winning the game via fool’s mate is small, a seducer may ensure at least some success if he simply hits on enough women. With fool’s mate as his only “winning move”, he will have to live with a reputation for being rejected by many women.

The main limitation with relying on fool’s mate is, the more social the woman, the less likely it will work. Seducers sacrifice their freedom of choice and relegate themselves to praying on the socially inexperienced; girls who rarely get approached. These girls have little choice but to settle for the uncomfortable advances of the typical seducer. Unfortunately (or fortunately from a Machiavellian point of view), this includes preying on the young, the lonely, those with apparent low self-esteem, the anti-social, and the less than beautiful.

Fool’s mate can work in some situations that may be acceptable to you, such as on drunk girls and those who have a propensity towards having one night stands. Just don’t let it be your only “winning move”.

Seducers mistakenly begin at the end. Just like any typical guy, they often blatantly disregard a woman’s comfort levels entirely. Being typical in this way is generally not an attractive quality. Even if there is a level of attraction based on the seducer’s appearance alone, this is superceded by her discomfort in having to deal with aggressive sexual advances from someone she doesn’t know nor trust. It is best to not prematurely telegraph strong sexual interest until end-game.


>What I find so interesting is that Mystery and his camp use HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of little moves.

Anyone who takes my MM seminar will understand the elegance of the model. The issue you bring up is that of CHUNKING. Here’s a quick course on it:

try to remember this #: 36514923141592000

hard to remember because there are so many small chunks. but now lets large chunk it: 365 1492 314159 2000 … days in a year, when columbus ‘discovered’ america, 3.14159 is pi to 5 decimals and the year 2000. easy now, once you large chunk the small chunks.

in the same way there are hundreds of things to do when driving a car but we let out motor response automate the reactions for us over repeated drives. same here. I dont actually THINK about the method as I go. I only think it AFTERWARDS to I can do the right thing the NEXT time automatically. We learn things in SMALL CHUNK and then automate it and only think in large chunks. In fact, when I see the woman I let go of EVERYTHING but my OPENER. my brain does the work FOR ME. As some of my room mates have complained about, I can’t NOT make a girl attracted to me (my attract phase is automated – weird). Instead of having to go through this trial and error, self-correcting loop by yourself over ten years like I did, you can take a seminar and fix all the errors in a year like TD did.

>I think it’s this reason that people worship them: results + knowledge beyond one’s own. They hear or see or read of the incredible results these guys get and then they read their analytical posts and can’t understand them, so they automatically ASSUME everything written is like the holy bible of seduction.

This is coming from someone who has not taken an MM seminar, NOR even MET ME. The PUA summit is coming up. come on down and lets all meet up. Maybe, just maybe, there really IS something to all this. Maybe the hype is TRUE. Is it POSSIBLE that someone actually FIGURED IT OUT? for real this time?

>The hero worshippers are unable to critically analyze the information, and thus unable to apply it correctly.

the hero worshipping comes from those who have MET the heros in real life though. important distinction.

>Okay but what about those people who have had many lays with girls in well under the 7 hour mark? (by the way, is any lay short of 7 hours now considered the official cutoff line between a Fool’s Mate, and “solid game.”)

take a look at all the lays you’ve had and list how long (in accumulated hours) it took to full monty each. average them out. now add similar data from your friends. from other puas. from ANYONE. what is the AVERAGE of EVERYONE? you can’t deny the EVIDENCE. I didn’t pull that # out of my ass. I DISCOVERED it. its SEVEN HOURS. can you do it in less? sure you can. but sometimes its more too. if you rely on fool’s mate as your only winning move (as you claim to) you are seriosuly limiting yourself. dude. its ONLY 7 hours (on average).

>Hero worshippers and heros, Consider this: What if, just what if, a person could do with a few seconds of eye contact, a few words, the right body language, right voice tonality, and right subcommunication, BYPASS 20 of your stacked openers, 15 of your routines, 6 of your peacocked items, 3 takeaways, 50 C&F lines, and 2 DHVs??? Wow, that would be something wouldn’t it?

it sure would … and this smacks of an IN-EXPERIENCED guy with a wish that strange women would just knock on his bedroom door and say “hi, Im Mercedes, may I come in for a shag?” Are you IN the field 4 nights a week? what you are saying is not REALISTIC. Dude, Im OUT THERE. Im in the game. If what you say is true, then how about you and I have a little contest (just for shits and gigles of course). Lets see who gets MORE. PUA summit. Free seminars. Sarge time with the greats.

>I’ll tell you how. CALIBRATION. Going back to the point about the HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of intricate moves these guys use…they are so routine based, and move-based…they are such walking encyclopedias of knowledge, that they focus way TOO much on the next move, on the next routine, on trying to “calibrate” the girl’s level of attraction, and “calibrating” their own value and worrying about whether they are TOO social proofed or too high value that they will blow themselves out or “calibrating” if she’s ready to be isolated or moved into rapport gaming.

this stems from a misunderstanding of how we LEARN. you small chunk while you train (like when you learn to ride a motorcycle) and then with practice you large chunk into patterns until your body rides the bike FOR you. this is what is meant by the word INTERNALIZE. you internalize the pieces step by step so when you are in set, your body automatically does the right thing. I dont actually THINK about the next step. It comes INTUITIVELY now. INTERNALIZING is how we do the RIGHT things INTUITIVELY.

intuition \in-tu-wi-shen, -tyu-\ n 1 : quick and ready insight 2 : the power or faculty of knowing things without conscious reasoning

how do we GET intuitive information? it isnt there at birth. it gets INTERNALIZED there … through PRACTICE.

>The problem is that they miss THE BIG CALIBRATION…the one that you only see when you are open to seeing it, and are fully sexually aware. The BIG calibration is being able to look at a girl (or talk to her for a couple sentences) and KNOW she wants to be fucked that night, or KNOW that she is open for a quick seduction. It’s not just jumping from HB to HB and running the exact same shit over and over and over. It’s going to the HB that you KNOW can give you what you want.

if you only approach the girls looking to fuck in the bathroom, you reduce your CHOICE substantially. dude. Seriously. you think we aren’t up to speed with this or something? You don’t become a fucking hero unless you can deliver the goods. come meet me. I’ll show you my world. pua summit. great times ahead.

>One thing that is good about these guys is their consistency. It’s a step by step program, albeit one with too damn many steps.

there are ONLY 3 steps for me now … ATTRACT, build COMFORT and enjoy a mutual SEDUCTION. simple. each stage is now INTUITIVE.

>But the bottom line is lays…

the bottom line for ME is LOVE. I want a woman to LOVE me. Sex is easy. LOVE (pairbonding) is what keeps her around and wanting MORE SEX with you. (when the woman is hot enough, trust me, you want her again and again – vid clip of new gf in the lounge).

>and in doing what they do, they may be able to game a girl enough every day or two, and spend seven hours to get a lay. But then there is my buddy who I wrote about last year couldn’t give a shit about any kind of takeaways or DHVs, etc, and he goes out and gets a chick to fuck him about 80% of the nights he goes out…and usually within a matter of hours, often WITHIN AN HOUR! How? Because he can look at the girls in a room, take a seat, lean back, drink a scotch, exude sex appeal, and wait for AIs, look at those girls giving AIs, figure out which ones show the most promise for easy lays, and then go for it. And his main opening topics involve sex and relationships.

lone wolves and AIs huh. wait til you see what good IS. I accept ALL CHALLENGES.

>You can call that Fool’s Mate. I call it a different, more efficient style of pickup, that is uncomplicated by the thousands of little rules and steps that exist out there.

then lets you and I challenge eachother. We will go into a public gathering and see which ‘method’ wins … fool’s mate (SEDUCTION FIRST) versus solid game (ATTRACT, COMFORT, SEDUCE in order). April 1 to 5. fool’s mate is not a STYLE of pickup. its a MISTAKE in the METHOD. if SEDUCTION FIRST. its HOPING that your look is enough to build ATTRACTION. attraction in reality takes more than peacock gear and a wink. What kind of CHOICE does THAT breed? only those who accept your look? come on, that’s not a method. that’s a hope.

>And for those of you who REALLY REALLY REALLY think there is such thing as a fool’s mate…COME ON! How many times have you fucked girls by doing absolutely nothing??? When I’ve gone out peacocked, I’ve had girls offer to give me blowjobs while I was just standing there at a bar ignoring them, throwing a C&F disparaging comments their way every now and again…but THAT was the gaming. When I’ve used Grandmaster (which all of you hero worshippers need to try, just for the hell of it, to see what it does to girls), I’ve gotten girls ULTRA sexually excited in a matter of MINUTES. It’s a matter of calibration. If you are getting IOIs or AIs from girls, you have no reason to take forever with the seduction.

This reminds me of several PUAs who THOUGHT they were good until they met a REAL PUA. I bet you are still playing the peacock and wait to AI game. and the “chase the lone wolves” game. dude, seriously, we took the game to an utterly NEW level that you cannot POSSIBLY appreciate til you see it LIVE. what you THINK is good is likely only 20% of what we know good to be.

>Get it on! Try some new fucking shit of your own. Try making a move early. Try kissing a girl AS SOON as you can sense some sexual chemistry. It takes balls, but it’s worth trying on several girls for a day.

When you meet me you will know Im not a mamby pamby when it comes to going sexual haa.

>Quit treating a pickup like it’s a little fragile piece of invaluable art that you have to treat just perfectly and perform exactly the right move at the right time, or that you have to use “solid game” on.

you have to do the RIGHT thing or you LOSE the girl. and when you do lose one, you dont want to be the guy to backwards rationalize the failure by saying “i didnt want her anyways.”

>That’s (“solid game”) another horrible phrase that needs to go—people keep using it and then talking about how they couldn’t get a number or kiss or lay…I’m sorry to tell, ya, but “solid game” should result in “solid” RESULTS. Pickups are NOT fragile little things!

the more I read, the more I realize you aren’t playing the same game as we are. Im in LA. do you see the girls we are getting? Do you know how ACTIVE we are? we dont just sit next to a girl and hope she AIs us. Come to the free seminar k? find a PUA buddy in LA and crash there for a few days. its adventure.

>Now let me say this. I like reading TDs and Mystery’s archives and posts, and, believe it or not, I try some of the stuff they post, and use some of the frames they use. And I have nothing against them. In fact, quite the contrary. The level of discussion here would not be where it is without them. I appreciate the level of detail they bring. My problem is with the dudes that kiss their asses. It gets sooo annoying to see guys who are admitted virgins and KJs defending them or making claims on their behalf or advertising for them, or just generally being so sucked into their world that they cannot possibly believe that other methods can work. It gets annoying to see even other PUAs who are respected defending them and swinging from their dicks. For Christ’s sake, whatever happened to being your own man and thinking for yourselves?

meet me and you’ll understand why those who have spent time with me PERSONALLY defend my methods. hope to see you at the PUA summit bro.

You can read the whole darn thread here.

Good stuff. A little bit reactionary, but for the most part, I think Mystery makes his points. I like what he had to share from his book. I can’t wait until he’s done with the damn thing so it can be produced for mass consumption. However, the advent of his new Girlfriend may slow the process down even further. Everyone be sure to e-mail the Starsky to Myster’s Hutch — Herbal T — and tell him to beat Mystery with a rubber hose until that opus of his is complete!

See you all on Monday.

Get Your Free Guide Here!


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