The SS List — Beating a Dead Horse
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/17/03
For years, the Speed-Seduction list has been in operation. For a while, it was awesome. There was a real influx of talented seducers there coming up with “nuclear” stuff to use on chicks. Things like “The Warmth Builder,” “Riker’s 3 Rules,” and the amazing “takeaway” abounded. But then the star student turned out to be a con man and one of Ross’s fallen angels went off and started up the competition. Not only that, but fastseduction.com and mASF opened things up for more than just Ross’s products. Since that time, the SS list has endured, but it is a shadow of what it used to be.
Like Freddy screaming at Jason, whenever I open my e-mail to find posts from the SS list in there, I can’t help but yell at the screen “WHY WON’T YOU DIE???!!!!” And then proceed to delete 99.9% of the posts, occasionally reading one that catches my eye until I realize why it is that I bother to delete most of these posts, and then proceed to kill that one as well.
The thing is, even though the SS list isn’t what it used to be, SS isn’t what it used to be either. Gone are the days where you could memorize 40 patterns and steamroll a girl into a subnamuble trance and start fondling her right away. The new SS has degenerated into tailoring shit to the girl you are seducing, which cuts your success rate down to 30% at the least. Because of this, most of the guys who have progressed in their game have opted to leave SS behind for greener pastures. What does this mean?
Simple. There are no “good” seducers on the SS list anymore. It truly is the blind leading the blind, with newbies who haven’t even finished listening to the BHSC giving advice to other newbies, therefore insuring nobody really knows what they are doing. The fact that some of the best threads on there are discussing shit that was brought up in Swinggcat’s book doesn’t help matters.
What I’m wondering is — will it get any better? Will Ross lock himself away in a closet for 6 months and re-emerge with a new form a Speed Seduction — one that actually WORKS and is a viable alternative to DYD, MM, and any of the other 6 billion forms of PUA that have sprung up since the good ol’ days? Will SMART people actually join the SS list and start posting good shit again? Or should this list be killed or die quietly? Honestly, I haven’t seen ANYTHING good come from that list since the days Bishop was posting, and he made up all his shit. Kind of says something doesn’t it?
I think my biggest problem with the SS list comes from the fact that there are actually guys out there who are genuinely in need of help and wanting to learn, and they look at all the crap that’s passing for advice on this list because they don’t know any better, and it only ends up making their situation worse because they follow the poor advice that is given. In fact, most recently, the only person on there I’ve seen give somewhat good advice is Tom Vizzini (when he’s not hocking 3D Mind or any of that other crap, that is).
I hope Ross wakes up to the fact that his list is slowly degenerating into what Apple became in the 80s and early 90s, which is a steaming pile of crap, a shell of what it once was. I hope he starts putting some quality control on his list and his products, and starts dealing with the REALITY of seduction instead of the idealized NLP version of it. I hope he actually steps up to the plate and starts teaching guys what they need to know instead of fairy tales. But then again, that may be too much work.
In the meantime, I’ll just keep deleting my SS posts.
Thundercat
RaymondSmapy on 
Hnzzpz on 
prednisone 120 mg daily on 
Lqkmyz on 
Timsothyvot on 
It is important to notice that not too many people take non-popular sides of the discussion. Lets think how to encourage a broader view of the subject.
Palace of Chance
Could not have said it better myself.
Only thing wrong is that Bishop ended up being for real. It was Yates and Ross slandering him over a wire payment that Yates should have taken care of for the superstar SS student. One can only wonder where SS would be right now if only Yates had spent a few bucks(a deductible business expense)for the wire payment.
Now Bishop is on his own and showing the world he was for real. Ask any of our regular posters.
Huge mistake, that’s why SS and the Speed-Seduction list has degenerated into a shell of what it once was and Ross is left hawking his seminars on the list with a few testimonials. He says, “If you are still on the fence and have not yet decided to sign up now…..” We aren’t that dumb.
Speed-Seduction list is DEAD.
“Speed-Seduction list is DEAD.”
This is too bad since I had thought of purchasing a SS product just so I could get on the List. It seems the golden era of Kamal, Orion, Rick H, Bishop, Major Mark and lastly Swingcatt are gone forever being overtaken by more “hip” “cool” and “alpha” methods of pua. W/O that core, it will dampen a technology that certainly has much potential to improve upon itself to even greater heights. I would hate to see RJ end up like Nikola Tesla or Wilhelm Reich, never really reaching the zenith that SS could bring (and has to an extent brought).
Most of the people who I come across who are younger first want to learn PU gravitate to DYD. It just seems more palatable. What he teaches, what RSD teaches and what MM teaches are more intune with our cultural themes of masculinity: dominance, social proof and being “alpha”. These people, the dorks you see standing outside clubs with there cell phones, flip flops, pink shirts and there baseball caps on backwards would probably view SS as too foreign or even effeminate .
If anything, they will view RSD, DYD, MM as a bit more congruent to there cultural perceptions. Nothing wrong with that, these methods obvioulsy work, but the distinction needs to be made.
These days, the only good posters on the SS list are Ross and Riker. Unfortunately, the NEVER seem to post.
Ross, if you’re reading this, please post more on the SS list. And don’t just post stuff about the power of yoga, etc. Post stuff about how to pick up girl, like for real.
“This is too bad since I had thought of purchasing a SS product just so I could get on the List. It seems the golden era of Kamal, Orion, Rick H, Bishop, Major Mark and lastly Swingcatt are gone forever being overtaken by more “hip” “cool” and “alpha” methods of pua. W/O that core, it will dampen a technology that certainly has much potential to improve upon itself to even greater heights.”
Nonsense. You seem to be forgetting something: ***I**** am the core of Speed Seduction(R). And the best innovations, including SRT, the methods for breaking through learned helplessness, the Walk-Up Diamond, have come along quite independently of any of the people you mentioned.
We’ve got a great core of students, including John V(who is awesome with this stuff), Sampson Emperor, etc. etc.
“I would hate to see RJ end up like Nikola Tesla or Wilhelm Reich, never really reaching the zenith that SS could bring (and has to an extent brought).”
Wow. Thanks for the comparsions, especially Tesla. Tesla was so ahead of his time that some of his ideas are only now at the verge of being realized.
“Most of the people who I come across who are younger first want to learn PU gravitate to DYD. It just seems more palatable. What he teaches, what RSD teaches and what MM teaches are more intune with our cultural themes of masculinity: dominance, social proof and being “alpha”.”
Yes, and therefore they are totally trapped by the limits of those themes, and they are VERY limiting.
“These people, the dorks you see standing outside clubs with there cell phones, flip flops, pink shirts and there baseball caps on backwards would probably view SS as too foreign or even effeminate .”
All the more reason why the very smartest of us gravitate to SS; they see past the cultural programming and want what really WORKS.
I have the SS list from 2000 to 2005 archived. Over 65000 pages of mind breaking knowlege. HEHE
It really is a treasure……….
It seems the problem is the skilled SSers have figured out Ross will steal their material so he can sell it for himself. It’s like Ross feels they should just be grateful that they went through the Home-Study Course and it’s their way of returning something to Speed Seduction when in fact Speed Seduction is based on other people’s works, not his genius as Ross always says. His genius is being smart enough to take other people’s works and make them his own and that’s as far as his genius goes.
John Vetterling is all he can put up? He has years of experience, show us a new guy who has mastered SS in a way that he can pick up any girl he desires…. I didnt think so….. so much for being the best “teacher” out there.
Why You Shouldn’t Believe MINE’99/Ross
Ultimately how successfull was SS? Were these guys, the ones who actually did memorize the patterns and deliver them reasonably well, able to women get laid much ?
BAFC, there is no universal PU model that works for everyone equally well. Many people are successful with caveman direct, others spend hours learning complex routines/social dynamics/whatever and still get laid. You have to find what works best for you.
Having said that, there is no scientific study of whether any method is in fact superior to others in terms of “student success rate”. Nobody ever posts statistics about what their success rate is – i.e., how many cold approaches do you need to do to get one lay?
Caveman direct has 4-5% lays, very little time lost on flakes (see the Player Guide on fastseduction.com). It essentially gets you a guaranteed lay in one day. Things like MM require years of learning, take 7-10 hours to work on an individual and waste substantial time on flakes. Success rate for all students (including Mystery) is unknown.
Nobiz, thanks for the info.
BTW, what is “Caveman Direct” and who teaches it ?
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