Louis & Copeland vs… Carlos Xuma???

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A while back I put up a post called "Louis & Copeland vs… David DeAngelo???" where I talked about a newsletter the "How To Succeed With Women" Dynamic Duo put out that sounded like David DeAngelo, the genius behind "Double Your Dating," was threatening to sue them.

Well, a new twist in the story has turned up.  Another fairly well know dating guru, Carlos Xuma, the brains behind Dating Dynamics, apparently read my post and emailed me to clear something up.  I’m reposting this email for your reading pleasure below:

Carlos Xuma writes:
The "threat" was when I sent them an email after one of their "everybody else is a scam" emails went out. They’re trying to start a dirty smear campaign. (Next thing you know they’re going to accuse PUAs everywhere of staying at Michael Jackson’s house.) What I was trying to tell them was to "Watch out" about their negative and demeaning tactics. Next thing you know, they spin it to mean that they’re being threatened.

I don’t have a very high opinion of those guys right now. I’m putting out a veiled rebuttal in my Seduction Method newsletter today. I’ll send it to you for grins.

Anyway, let me know when you’re back in the states and we can chat about things.

Carlos

And send it he did.  Check it out:

5/12/2005  Seduction Smarts
Getting Men Confident and Successful With Women  … (Without Guilt)

————————————
THESE GUYS DON’T GET IT

Pardon my rant here, but I got this email the other day from a couple of guys that give men advice on dating women. I can’t believe some of the stuff they put in this email. And I’m feeling a bit sad for them, really.

I don’t usually address what other people say, but something here really needed to be addressed.

First, I want to be clear that I really think these two guys have the potential to be sharp at this field, but they’ve decided lately that they want to try and make others look bad in their efforts, which is a shame. I know they read my emails, and I know they’re getting a lot of ideas from my work, which is okay with me, but they’re resorting to negativity and putting down other advisors as a method to get ahead.

They’re trying to turn what we’re doing into some kind of ugly competition, and they’re smearing other people’s names instead. Unfortunately, negativity works against us all.

And it seems as if it’s all in the name of hurting me and others who are trying to help guys out there be successful.

Read a little of what they wrote:

"TRYING to be the "apha male" — that is, pushing other guys around, acting tough, and worrying a lot about how "alpha" you are — actually makes you LESS "alpha."

HUH???

Guys, I have read everything imaginable on this topic, and nowhere does anyone say to act this way to attract women. Not even the BAD stuff I read tells guys to behave like this.

It’s not about acting like a jerk, or competing for a woman’s attention.

Nor is it some kind of barnyard behavior, the way they present it.

It’s about demonstrating dominant characteristics that help men realize their dreams with women… and their lives.

When I talk about being an "Alpha Man" it’s about turning on those powerful behaviors and beliefs in yourself that allow you to accomplish what you want.

It’s never about this kind of behavior.

Geez….

C’mon, guys.

I’m shaking my head here, because I see what’s happening, and it’s frustrating to watch.

You see, I know these guys want to have more men come to their seminars and spend their money. They charge a good deal of money for these seminars, but I’ve never attended one, so I cannot comment on the quality.

But I do know this: Most of you don’t have the means to fly around and take these classes.

I want to give you the means to learn as much as  you can … from wherever you are, and at whatever skill level you’re at.

It’s all about HOW you behave with women, and HOW effectively you can read and integrate in social situations.

These are skills you can learn and use, and they’re not watered down to the point of being ineffective. I’m also not afraid to tell you some things that they would find too shocking to admit.

Remember that before you learned how to ride a bike, you had to pay attention to every motion, and maintaining your balance, and steering, and a dozen other things. AFTER you got the hang of it, it became transparent and you could then do all the cool stuff without thinking about it.

It became natural.

You can’t just FALL into the right behaviors, you need to LEARN them.

And THAT is what the Alpha Man model teaches.

I have faith that you guys are smart enough to avoid this kind of negative smear-campaign emails if they pop into your in-box.

Remember that you need to beware any advice that tells you NOT to listen to other people’s advice. That shows mistrust for your intelligence. Keep your mind open and fresh.

And avoid negative thinking, in ANY form.

Jeesh.  Talk about a bitchslap!  I guess David DeAngelo was innocent of threatening Louis and Copeland after all.

It’s funny, because I used to think the fueding only went on between keyboard jockies on mASF, but now I see it’s something everyone gets into from time to time.

But one thing is certainly clear:  Louis and Copeland don’t seem to be winning any friends lately.

Louis & Copeland vs… David Deangelo???

Now this is a wierd development.  In their latest newsletter, titled "Now They’re Threatening Us," authors of the book How To Succeed With Women Ron Louis and David Copeland reveal that there’s some drama going on between them and another "well known" guru.

Hi!

We want to make a confession to you:

Our competitors are not happy about our seminar. And some of them are getting personal.

One competitor actually wrote to us and threatened us after our recent newsletter exposed the many downsides of trying to be "Cocky and Funny" and manipulate women.

He told us be had better "watch out," and to not blow the whistle on the scams that many newly-minted "dating gurus" use to take money out of shy men’s pockets. 

But that’s what makes us different. We don’t teach elaborate techniques that only work if you have natural charisma or could be a talented hypnotist.

We don’t expect you to spend every waking moment of your life studying "techniques" and "patterns" so you can finally get what you want with women.

Here’s what we do — We teach "dirt simple" success with women — the kind of success that works for every guy.

It’s a big claim, but we can back it up.  We’ve been coaching men in dating for 10 years. That means we’ve been helping men since long before the internet made it easy for any guy to call himself a dating guru, and to take men’s money.

Owch.  Since David DeAngelo is the only guy who lays legitimate claim to the "cocky funny" moniker, I’m assuming that it was him who contacted Ron & Dave.  I’m not really sure he told them not to "blow the whistle on the scams that many newly-minted "dating gurus" use to take money out of shy men’s pockets."  But it wouldn’t surprize me if he did contact them about bashing his techniques in their previous newsletter.

I’ll see if I can get more on this soon.

Bishop & MINE’99, At It Again!

Seems Bishop and MINE’99 are once again crossing swords, this time in my post about the upcoming Cliff’s List Seminar.  After responding to a poster who claimed MINE’99 hasn’t made any advancement in years, MINE’99 listed his rather sub-standard product catalogue, which Bishop then took the opportunity to spank…

Bishop writes:
In response the defendent, Ross, who wrote:

""Going 7 years back to 1998 we have:

LA Frame Control videos 1999
DC 2000 Seminar Videos 2000
Palo Alto 2002 Hyper Response videos
Beyond Confidence
Fear Into Charisma
Advanced Irresistible Arousal""

LA Frame Control:
Is that the one where you recited the "Two Eyes" poem? Okay, you’re
right, that was previously only available in written form, so THAT was
an advancement.

DC 2000:
More like Major Mark’s finest moment than yours. Oh, wait, isn’t that
the videos where several times you mention "Bishop’s Journal" with such
high praise, and say that it’s the best example of combining
traditional patterning with the "new" stuff? But, I thought "Bishop’s
Journal" was a fake??? How can something fake be the best example of
your materiels???

Palo Alto 2002:
You used MY "fractionation" technique as your foundation, so it wasn’t
your advancement, it was piggybacking on MINE. Oh, okay, you found an
alternate way of doing the powerful self exercise.

Beyond Confidence:
Okay, so you found yet ANOTHER alternate way to have people step into
their ideal self. Hardly an advancement. (Unless you count advancing
sales)

Fear into Charisma:
From what I read in the ad copy, you pretty much combined my stuff,
David D’s, and Mystery’s. So where is YOUR contribution to it???

Advanced Irrisitible Arousal:
My fractionation techniques you used in Palo Alto 2002, Bishop’s
Journal, my Methods & Masters CD, Advanced Double Your Dating, and
reworded old stuff just repackaged as a new product.

Come on, Paul, are you REALLY expecting people to not notice these things????

""That’s 6 products right off the top, Bunky. Now, in the years you
have been involved with this, how many products did you actually manage
to complete? Hmmm?""

Five. And based on your products since then, apparently they had an
influence on you.(I can’t wait to see what you "borrow" as your own
when I release "The Fire of Seduction" But I have news for you; you
won’t find any SS materiels anywhere in it, so you’re going to have to
think for yourself, "bunky")

""Creating an inferno? I knew you broke into a house, but I didn’t
know arson was one of your great loves too. Please tell me you are just
using a metaphor, Mikey.""

There is yet another case of you making a libel statement. I was never charged nor convicted of breaking into a home.
Speaking of my legal matters; It’s a good thing I was a fraud and my
book was full of fiction, or else one might get the idea that I had the
hypnotic and infuential ability to get my former cellmates to come
visit people who don’t behave. Good thing THAT could never happen, me
being a fraud and all.

By the way, I thought you said Major Mark stopped speaking at your
seminars because he wanted to focus on his own company. Hmm, so why
does he speak at all those DeAngelo seminars??? How’s the new
attendance at the seminars been since he left?
By the way, did Yates make sure to get someone to eliminate the nearly
dozen mentions of me and my book, in the DC 2000 videos? If not,
excellent free advertising, thanX!

It’s a well known fact that MINE’99 isn’t the most "original" person in the world.  His initial products were based on NLP fundamentals he certainly didn’t invent.  And since then, he’s taken all the good stuff from former students and put his claim to it.  Hell, I’m surprized he’s not claiming he invented Yoga too.  I think Bishop’s post points this out better than anything (and this is coming from a guy who was in the top inner circle of SS!  Seriously, you don’t get any deeper than he was).

To all you jlaix fans out there…

I have some exciting news for all you fans of everyone’s favorite shotgun-toting Pick-Up Artist.  I’ve been told by Papa, the mastermind behind the Real Social Dynamics enterprize, that they have officially tapped jlaix to be the writer of their upcoming newsletters!!!

I always enjoy reading jlaix’s rants, and having met the guy myself, I know he’s got some great skills of his own with women.  I look forward to reading his newsletters for RSD, which promise to be, at the very least, interesting.  =)

Of course, anything can change in the time between now and when RSD relaunches it’s website, so take this as a rumor for the time being.  But I hope it pans out.

I’d like to have a few newsletters that are fun to read.

Okay, this is a little fucked up…

Okay, well, it’s no secret that a lot of guys don’t really like or respect the James Method.  I don’t know much about it, so I’m not gonna comment on the validity of his system (but from what I’ve seen, it doesn’t lookt hat good).  Anyway, there’s a small contingent of guys who spend their time doing God’s work and making fun of said James along with his method.  The first was when a picture of James’s "girlfriend" made the rounds.  Needless to say, it wasn’t a pic of the most flattering girl in the world.

Well, I guess James has a new picture up of a new girlfriend.  And though this one is better than the last, there’s something in the picture that is more than a little distrubing…

M writes
After http://www.bristollair.com/resources/comics/
m_jamesmethod.jpg
did the rounds, it seems James decided to post another picture of a girl.

http://www.thejamesmethod.com/jamesmethodltr.jpg
She’s nice and all, but look closely at the picture on the wall. The one below the Fight Club picture.

Fuck me, that is one sick twat.

You can find this picture M’s referring to at the mirror site here.

Frankly, I think it’s extremely disrespectful to keep something like that on your wall.  If that’s James’s place, what does it say about him as a person?  If it’s the girl’s place, what does it say about the type of girl you can attract using his method?

Personally, I’m disgusted.

More TD Dissing from the Croatia Camp

Wow, not since the East Coast/West Coast rap wars have I seen such a bitter rivalry.  Someone in the Field Reports section of mASF put up this post that wasn’t really all that kind towards the RSD boys, while exhaulting the Croatian guys.

You can check out the thread here.

The whole thing kind-of reminds me of those old Kung-Fu movies where they all have different schools with different masters, and are always fighting over which school is better and which Kung-Fu is the strongest.

Gayboy!

Yet More Controversy From The Croatia Camp

I found a thread posted by croation Pick-Up Artist Shark on the Advanced forums of mASF about how he uses "You are beautiful, I would like to get to know you," as his Opener as part of the Direct Approach theory that the Croatian guys seem to be big on.

Of course, there’s a great deal of debate within the community as to the validity of this approach.  Some swear that the direct approach will blow you out with a girl immediately unless you have the looks/money/power/fame to back it up.  Others hold fast to the belief that if you’re congruent and alpha in your belief with it, it will work better than any other approach out there.

Obviously, with this controversy, you have quite a few people taking Shark to task about the validity of this type of approach (especially people from the Tyler Durden camp).  It makes for an interesting debate.  Direct Approaches very rarely work for me, but then again, I’m not as congruent as someone like Shark seems to be.

So check out the thread by clicking here.

When you’re done reading it, I’d like to hear other people’s thoughts on this.  Do you guys think the Direct Method is a bunch of bunk? Or is it the best thing since sliced bread?

Inquiring minds want to know.

A MINE’99 SMACKDOWN

When I posted my little blog about Phone Game Crap, I was just sharing a little tidbit from my life and my game on a slow news day.  I never thought it’d turn into such a monster thread with the likes of MINE’99 coming on and trying to twist it into some wierd psychological study of my "inner game."  And had I known MINE’99 was planning to unveil a new catch phrase on that post ("They imitate.  I originate.") I’d have given it a place of honor on the blog in the "Humor" archive.

But before I could get to that, someone who goes by the handle "SOME REAL TRUTH" replied to the maniacle ravings of MINE’99 with some major *gasp* logic and ruined that idea.  Go figure.  But I figured it was good enough to repost, so here it is.

Hey MINE’99,

You took the idea of frames DIRECTLY from the work of BANDLER AND GRINDER. What would you have done if it weren’t for using concepts like embedded commands, anchoring, sub-modalities, and …

You imitated. It wasn’t your original idea. You applied it to seduction and claimed yourself as originator.

You took most of your so called concepts DIRECTLY from the book “TRANCE-FORMATIONS”. Patterns like stacked realities …all come form there.

You also took many ideas from their other books, and from other NLP people.

The stuff that Swingcat talks about in his book is not a result of your work. Who said you originated FRAMES? Or prizing, or open-loops, or revealing & concealing, or cold-reading, or qualifying, or…

JUST BECAUSE BANDLER & GRINDER WERE SO BUSY DOING OTHER STUFF AND BECAUSE YOUR MARKET DIDN’T OVERLAP THEIR MARKET DOESN’T MEAN YOU DIDN’T STEAL ALMOST ALL OF YOUR SO CALLED ORIGINAL CONCEPTS FROM THEM.

Mark Cunningham taught you a great deal, e.g. symbol fractionation and now you claim it as yours.

Now you have turned to yoga. I wonder why it didn’t cross your intelligent mind before, to tap into that, and try to commercialize yoga as a seduction tool. Why didn’t you advocate yoga in DC2000?

In a tape you said something in the lines of “if your car in broken down in highway, do you want someone who’ll tell you that the universe is ultimately perfect or you want someone who can get the fucking car running?”

Now in the above metaphor, your SS system DOESN’T get the fucking car running. At least not all on its own.

No wonder your CURRENT top student Vince is clinical hypnotherapist. Talk about applicability of your system by ANYONE, as it is so clearly shown on your site. LOL

Owch.  Man, that was so harsh it even hurt me!  lol.  But I’m sure MINE’99 has a well thought out, polite post ready explaining how this person is obviously a disturbed individual who’s mommie doesn’t love him and his mind has been corrupted by the foul teachings of "Double Your Masterbating," which MINE’99 invented anyway, but that doesn’t really seem to matter.

There is a misconception out there that I am against all things Hypno and NLP, which isn’t true.  I do think that stuff has a certain ammount of merrit, and there are guys I’ve met who have used it with great success.  But you can’t seem to criticize or try to point out any flaws in using these tactics without MINE’99 viewing it as a personal attack on himself, which he’ll return in full by threatening to release personal information you told him in confidence on public forums on the Internet.  But I digress…

Anyway, I don’t view MINE’99 and SS as the same thing.  You can seperate the man from the method.  And the method has some good stuff to offer.

Some Mystery Tidbits

I’ve heard a few interesting rumors lately that I thought I’d report on, but I should say that they’re just that — RUMORS.  Nothing has been confirmed by me yet, so I just wanted to get that out of the way first.

Basically, these rumors have to do with Mystery’s marriage.  It seems that the marriage is over, pretty much 3 weeks after it began.  I’m told Mystery is telling everyone that is was really just an April Fools joke, but most people who’ve seen him and his ex-wife together could have sworn the whole thing was legit and it was just destined not to work out.  I don’t know if they’ve gotten an offical divorce or not, but I was told by some people that Mystery is out and about sarging again, which I guess is good news, though I’m also told that his former wife is now completely ignoring him when out in public, and that she was showing more than a little ammount of affection for Tyler Durden while he was in town.

There have also been various rumors of certain "love triangles" taking place in the Project Hollywood Mansion that make Melrose Place look tame in comparison.  But so far I really don’t think there’s any validity to those speculations, so I’m not going to repeat them here.  Also, the rumor above comes in second and third hand, so take it for what you will.

All I can say is that if Mystery’s marriage really is over, I’m greatly relieved, since I’m sure the security of marriage probably would have affected his PUA skills over time.

Sexual Subcommunication, al-la Robert Green

So there’s that topic of "Sexual Subcommunication" that seems to be so elusive to us cassanova types.  But one Cassanova in particular over at the Art of Seduction Message Boards decided he wanted to talk about it further, and it caught the attention of the great Robert Green, author of the excelent book The Art of Seduction.

Read more

MINE’99 Invented something in ’97!

After their showdown this last weekend at the LA PUA Summit, it seems MINE’99 and Tyler Durden are back to their old feud which is starting to become the PUA equivalent of Hatfield and McCoy.  Tyler kicks things off:

Tyler Durden writes:
Some great replies in the "Getting girls to open up" thread. I haven’t had time to read thoroughly and take notes yet.

Something I noticed Style doing was showing genuine curiousity in the girl. This is the SOLUTION to asking things about the girl, without conveying lower social value.

To which, MINE’99 responds, living up to his name.

MINE’99 writes:
Well, I’ve been teaching for years and years that GENUINE curiosity is a fine way to start a seduction.

MINE’99 then goes on to expound…

This is all on my Magick/PI videos. I have been teaching this since 1997.

Look out!  MINE’99 is actually going BACK IN TIME and altering the commonly held belief that EVERYTHING was invented in 1999!  This is like finding the dead sea scrolls or something, folks!  Our view of the universe is actually SHIFTING, much like those who did not believe Gallileo when he said the Earth revolves around the sun!  Well, I tell you to believe!  Heseforth, the date of 1997 shall go down in the anal of history.

How will Tyler respond to this new development?  My guess is he will try to perform Mystery’s pattented TIME WARP merge to actually Marty McFly himself back to the dark ages of 1997 and assume the form of one Kenrick Cleveland, therefore effectively making claim that HE HIMSELF invented this concept!  Mark my words, Tyler’s game is getting to the point where that CAN happen.  =)

Anyway, all kidding aside, you can read the whole thread here.

MINE’99 Invented something in ’97!

After their showdown this last weekend at the LA PUA Summit, it seems MINE’99 and Tyler Durden are back to their old feud which is starting to become the PUA equivalent of Hatfield and McCoy.  Tyler kicks things off:

Tyler Durden writes:
Some great replies in the "Getting girls to open up" thread. I haven’t had time to read thoroughly and take notes yet.

Something I noticed Style doing was showing genuine curiousity in the girl. This is the SOLUTION to asking things about the girl, without conveying lower social value.

To which, MINE’99 responds, living up to his name.

MINE’99 writes:
Well, I’ve been teaching for years and years that GENUINE curiosity is a fine way to start a seduction.

MINE’99 then goes on to expound…

This is all on my Magick/PI videos. I have been teaching this since 1997.

Look out!  MINE’99 is actually going BACK IN TIME and altering the commonly held belief that EVERYTHING was invented in 1999!  This is like finding the dead sea scrolls or something, folks!  Our view of the universe is actually SHIFTING, much like those who did not believe Gallileo when he said the Earth revolves around the sun!  Well, I tell you to believe!  Heseforth, the date of 1997 shall go down in the anal of history.

How will Tyler respond to this new development?  My guess is he will try to perform Mystery’s pattented TIME WARP merge to actually Marty McFly himself back to the dark ages of 1997 and assume the form of one Kenrick Cleveland, therefore effectively making claim that HE HIMSELF invented this concept!  Mark my words, Tyler’s game is getting to the point where that CAN happen.  =)

Anyway, all kidding aside, you can read the whole thread here.

Big things on the horizon

Man o’ man, do I have some juicy tidbits of info today.

Just got done with a marathon meeting of the minds after the LA PUA Summit of 2004 where Swinggcat, Tyler Durden, Papa, and myself spent a good deal of time at Mel’s Diner on Sunset Blvd. into the wee hours of the morning discussing some amazingly cutting edge stuff.

I think I can say that without a doubt, this is some of the most amazing, exciting theory I’ve heard in a long, long, long, long, time.

I’m not going to share what it is at the moment, because I was sworn to secrecy, but when it hits, I’ll be sure to share it all with you guys.  But I will say, stay on the lookout for a MONSTER post from Tyler on mASF in the near future, where he’s going to spill his guts in a MASSIVE post that could change the way the Game is played.

This is some sick shit, folks.

Also, be on the lookout this week for Tyler’s first column for Thundercat’s Seduction Lair.  It’s gonna be an amazing article where Tyler actually interviews an ex-girlfriend of his and breaks down her responses about a lot of stuff that guys do to women that they respond to.  I’ve never read anything like it, especially from Tyler.  Oh yeah… did I mention it’s exclusive to the site?

Who’s your daddy?  =)

BadBoy vs. TD?

There’s an interesting thing going on in the PUA community right now, where you two incredibly skilled and gifted pick-up artists and teachers — namely Croation PUA BadBoy and the Famous Tyler Durden — who are at a philisophical divergence that is causing a great deal of interesting debate.

The thing is, both of these guys are very skilled and charismatic, so they each have strong followers.  There have been quite a few "converts" from the TD camp into the BadBoy camp after taking workshops, with lots of people quoting a "shift in perspective."  In fact, it can be said there is a lot of hostility from BadBoy’s followers towards Tyler and his methodology for some reason, even though the two men seem to have a professional respect for each other.

There has been a big debate on Mystery’s Lounge about this interesting "locking of horns" in terms of pick-up philosophy.  Recently, BadBoy posted an article in the Advanced forum of mASF that brings the debate back to the forefront.

Read more

More Info on Mystery’s Marriage

Okay for all you guys who thought Mystery getting hitched was an April Fools joke… well, that doesn’t seem to be the case.

I’ve talked to a few people and the marriage seems to be for real.  I guess the story is that Mystery and his girlfriend went to Vegas to see a Perfect Circle concert, and it was cancelled.  So while they had downtime, Mystery came across a store that had a matching pair of rings for sale.  It turned out they were wedding rings.  He bought them on the spot and suggested he and his girlfriend get married, and she was game.  Right after teh ceremony they hitched a flight back to LA.

When they told the guys at the Project Hollywood mansion, it was apparently met with a great deal of disbelief and shock.  But Mystery’s wife has been living with him and now they are officially in holy matrimony.  I think everyone is still pretty skeptical about the whole situation (and with good cause), but they support Mystery and hope the couple stays happy.

But the real question is:  How will this effect his business?  Can a married man legitamitely teach other guys how to pick-up women?  And if he can, will he be able to remain married?  Will other guys want to learn seduction from a guy who has a wife?  Needless to say, this development brings some very interesting questions about.  It won’t affect the validity of Mystery’s theory or method, but it might affect his skills which in the long run might be detrimental to his workshops.  After all, how often can you go out sarging if you have a wife at home?

Then again, perhaps this is another way of Mystery moving away from pick-up and focusing more on his magic career.  Either way, I hope it works out for him.

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