The Top 10 Pick-Up Artists Of 2003
February 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis, Top 10 Lists
**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/16/03
Okay, so the debate has been raging for a while now over who is the best PUA (Pick-Up Artist) out there. Obviously, a lot of egos are involved in this statement, and everyone has their own opinions about who the best really is. In fact, its so subjective, that I don’t really think there will ever be a clear and honest answer on the subject. Its like asking who the best warrior or soldier is in a war. But the fact of the matter remains, no one can ever ALWAYS be the best. They’re always going to have their off days — be a little bit slow, a little bit late, a little bit unprepared or caught off guard. But that doesn’t stop some people from categorizing the people in our little community as “The Best.” So I’ve decided to throw my hat in the ring and rate the top 10 PUAs operating out there.
However, only the people I have met personally are eligible for my list. There could very well be many great PUAs out there that beat these guys out, but I have not met them and cannot verify their skills personally, so they are off my list for now, though I will mention a few afterwards who I think are worthy of it. Also, my rankings are not based on sheer skill alone, rather, they are based on consistency, and what I have seen as far as how often they are practicing what they preach. So keep that in mind as we go through this.
Thundercat’s Top 10 Pick-Up Artist
1. Style: Style is definitely, hands down, bar none, the best operating in the game today. This guy is probably the most evil, sneaky, manipulative bastard I have ever seen in operation. The thing is, this guy comes in totally under the radar, and that is why he is so dangerous. His subtlety is so amazing, that before you know it, you are qualifying yourself to him and he has you right where he wants you. And the thing is, he does it with both girls AND guys. No one is safe. To give you an idea of how incredible Style is, he’s practically invented most of the techniques a lot of the top guys, like Mystery and Tyler Durden, are using and teaching. He is practically Machiavellian in nature, and is someone I both admire and fear. I should also point out that I have a special, non-gay, place in my heart for this man, because it was with his help that I broke down my barrier with approaching women, so I owe a lot of my current game and success to Style, which is another reason why I rate him #1.
2. Swinggcat: Swinggcat comes in at a close second, and would in fact probably be number one if it weren’t for the fact that that he is a better looking guy than Style. Swinggcat is a pretty hip looking (think a shorter version of Vince Vaughn in Swingers and you get a rough idea of what Swinggcat looks like), whereas Style is a skinny, bald, jewish guy. Swinggcat is just as evil, sneaky, and manipulative, but considering what Style has to overcome in the looks department, that puts his game above Swingg’s. That said, I have seen Swinggcat in action on numerous occasions and am amazed at a lot of his game. The way he is able to process and sum up the information girls give him and turn their frame around is truly a sight to see. Not only that, he is so intuative, he can make up cold readings on the fly and be almost 100% accurate, which is fuckin’ creepy. His book only scratches the surface of his vast knowledge, and I think we’ll be getting a lot of good (and evil) stuff from his upcoming newsletters.
3. Zan: Zan is not a name that is very well known in the community, but having met the guy and seen him in action, I am convinced he is one of the top dudes out there when it comes to picking up chicks. In fact, I’d have even placed him at number 1 if it wasn’t for the fact that this guy is a “natural” seducer, and therefore what he does cannot be taught to others. But in accordance with the sheer skill of his game, he lays all others flat on their back. The thing is, the guy looks like a male model. He’s 40 years old, but looks like he’s 20. He actually USED to be a model, in fact, back in France in the 80′s I think, and his girlfriend was Monica Bellucci of the Matrix fame (hey, don’t hate the player, hate the game =). Currently, the guy has between 6 and 9 hot ass girlfriends who ALL know about each other, and apparently he enjoys many 3-somes and fuck buddies to boot. Not only that, but Zan has one of the most amazing philosophies on life I have ever heard. He spends his time moving towards beauty and away from things that are not beautiful. I hung out with the guy for only 3 days, but I am secure enough in my masculinity to say that if I was a chick, I’d have been all over him. Probably the coolest guy in the community. He was on stage at the Chicago DYD seminar, and if David DeAngelo ever decides to sell the audio to that thing, you’ll get a real treat hearing Zan speak about inner game. Simply amazing.
4. Maddash: Maddash, like Zan, is also a successful, good looking, older guy. He’s a big proponant of the “No Game” game, which is pretty much emulating the behaviors of “naturals,” such as Zan, and because of that, Maddash’s game comes off as very subtle and natural. When I saw him in action I was very impressed. It seems like he gets a new girl every night. The thing about Maddash is that his life is not ruled by PUA, he is very much into business and athletics as well. Pick-up is just a small factor of his life, but one he strives to perfect — and boy, does he do a good job at it.
5. Craig: Craig probably deserves to be higher on the list, but unfortuneately, I think the four people above him beat him as far as technique goes. That said, Craig is VERY good. He is the king of the short-set method. This is basically where you approach a set of women, say something funny/amusing, then move onto the next set and repeat. Its a very good way of being social and works great in bar scenes. Its also good for creating social proof. Craig is also a very funny guy, and his dancing skills help attract attention from others (in a good way, mind you). The quality of women Craig gets is quite high. I have yet to see him with a girl I would rank lower than a 9 on the looks scale. Not only that, but he seems to get them pretty consistantly. However, the fact that he comes off as a good looking frat guy, the fact that he has appeared on Elimidate, and the fact that he lives on a beach, are all contributing factors to his success — but that does not take away from the fact that he is very skilled. He is also one of the few PUAs I’ve seen that can do all his shit effectively while drunk. He was also on stage at the Chicago DYD seminar, so you may hear stuff from him fairly soon.
6. Mystery: Okay, I know Mystery is gonna be pissed that I rank him so low (or not. He probably doesn’t give a shit what I think. Can ya blame him?), but in my opinion, for as good as Mystery is, the other 5 guys are better. The thing about Mystery is that he’s incredibly good at raising his value in other’s eyes. I’ve seen him pull off some amazing instances of social proof with his magic tricks, and he is incredibly entertaining, funny, and exciting. Its easy to get caught up in Mystery’s spell. That said, the reason I rate him #6 is because I do not feel his long game is very good. I always get the sense that Mystery has a hard time genuinely connecting with people, and this effects his long term relationships. It seems like he can be very insecure at times and needs constant validation from others, which leads to a lot of mind games that get him his validation, but at the same time succeeds in pushing people away from him. Whether or not this is intentional, I don’t know, but it happens. He also seems to care more about adjusting his game to suit the girl than making the girl adjust to his game, which I think ends up hurting his pick-up in the long run because it is not really congruent with who he is and how he presents himself long term. In fact, if you hang out with Mystery long enough, you get the sense that everything he talks to you about is a pattern, and he always ends up bringing the conversation back to his favorite topic, which is, of course, himself. And that is the reason I put him at #6.
7. Tyler Durden: Tyler is one of the big “up and comers” in the community. His posts made him a legend on ASF, and then once he teamed up with Papa and started doing workshops, his stock only rose. For a while, there was speculation as to whether or not TD was all talk, but he proved to everybody that he was legit in the Vegas Mystery Method workshop where he not only got laid, but got Style and Mystery laid as well. I have seen Tyler at work in the field, and he is impressive. He is a genuinely funny and engaging guy with lots of interesting stuff to talk about. His posts are some of the most interesting to read in the community as well, and he backs up his teachings with lots of field experience. However, like Mystery, I get the sense that TD has problems in his long game. When he picks chicks up, he does so from the frame where he makes the girls feel like “bad girls” or “sluts.” This works good for party girls and good girls alike, but on day two when the frame wears off, the girls associate that feeling with him and then flake, because feeling bad and slutty might be exciting for a night, but long term it is not a good feeling. TD also comes off as very gay. This is not a bad thing per say, but he has adopted the “hot chick” frame so congruently, that I think when girls sleep with him, its almost incongruent with who they thought he was. I could, of course, be totally wrong in this assessment since I haven’t hung out and sarged with Tyler as much as I’d like, but I’m going off of what I have noticed.
8. Primoman: Primoman is a dude that is no longer an active member of the community, but he is still a pick-up artist in every sense of the word. Primoman is known as the “King of the Ugs.” He is a dude who I’ve yet to see without a girl on his arm. Allbeit, that girl is usually ugly, or fat, or a combination of the two, but nonetheless, it is a girl. Primoman is not so much about quality as he is about QUANTITY. He probably lays more girls than any other guy in the community, but he is also not too picky with his prospects. Regardless, he gets laid a LOT! And that’s what it all comes down to in the end. His game is very Juggler in nature. In fact, he is quite AFC in his approach, but he is just so congruent with who he is and gently persistent in his sarge, that he eventually wins the girl over. Lately he’s been working his way up the “looks” scale as far as his girls go, so he may be giving Style a run for his money some day.
9. Sickboy: Sickboy is a protogee of Tyler and Papa. He’s a New Yorker and is best known for his appearance in the movie Zoolander as one of the male models in the movie. Yes, that’s right, the guy looks like a male model. But despite this, he is incredibly down to earth and has absolutely no ego about himself. He’s a very easy guy to talk to and a good friend. His game is also quite solid, though I do think it’s helped greatly by his looks. I think his frames aren’t as strong as they could be, but he definitely has the subtleties of PUA down pat. He recently spoke to the NYC lair and that’s a great read if you can find the transcripts somewhere. He’s a guy to look out for.
10. Harmless: Harmless is not what you would expect from a PUA. He’s pretty prolific on ASF, and seems to know his shit. The thing is, the guy comes off very much as his name describes him — Harmless. He’s a pretty average looking guy who seems very unassuming at first. But then you see the guy in action, and he’s very good. I think he comes across much like Mystery and TD, where he raises his value in the girl’s eyes by being entertaining and engaging. I know I enjoy talking to the guy, if that’s any indication. I haven’t seen enough of his game in action to critique it any further, but I do know he’s going to start teaching workshops soon, so his game’s gotta be pretty high. Regardless, he’s one to keep an eye on.
HONORABLE MENTIONS
There are a number of other people out there who probably deserve to be on this list, but like I said before, I have not had a chance to really see them in action. But here are a few who I think deserve a mention.
Bad Boy — Apparently this guy is amazing. I know TD gets a lot of his AMOG tactics from Bad Boy. He’s a croatian pick-up artist who was injured in the Bosnian war, which makes his game so much more incredible considering he was almost killed and still suffers the effects from that somewhat. Apparently the guy is very fearless and straight-forward agressive with women. In fact, some would descibe his game as all cocky and no funny, which is probably why its so effective. Not only that, but he is supposed to be incredibly congruent. I know he’s currently fucking Miss Croatia and using her as a pawn to pull other women for threesomes if that tells you anything about his game.
Toecutter – I don’t know the guy personally and all I have to go off of are his posts on ASF and Mystery’s Lounge, but this guy seems to have it going on. I know TD studdied his archive like the dead sea scrolls, and his posts convey a very congruent attitude. I’m interested in seeing him in action, and if I’m ever in Canada I’ll see if I can’t hook up with him.
MTLPUA — Don’t know much about him, but I hear he’s really good.
David X — I know Clifford had good things to say about him.
Chet – The Chetinator! I got to see him speak in Chicago. Supposedly he’s god-like with women, but I have yet to see him in action and can’t say for sure.
Adam – The “natural.” Look to see great things from this guy in the future!
Masterclass — The guy is currently juggling 4 girls right now. He’s also an incredibly sneaky speed seducer who is moving more into the cocky/funny stuff and having great success. Right now, I think his game could be up there with the best there is if he got past his fear of approaching.
Rick H. — The legend. I have not hung out with the guy yet, but I’m sure when I do, it’ll be veeeeeeery interesting. =)
Ross Jeffries — I’ve hung out with Ross on a few occasions now and have only sarged with him once. From what I saw, I liked, but have not done enough field work with him to accurately rate the guy. I know Papa speaks highly of him, and he’s been out in the field with him more than I have.
Papa – I go out with Papa all the time, so I’m a bit biased when it comes to his skill level. He teaches at all of TD and Mystery’s workshops as well, and his field reports are always worth a read. He’s also single-handedly bringing this community together, so he has to be respected for that at the very least. The reason I didn’t put him in the top 10 was because much of his material is from Style and Tyler. I think in order to be in the top 10, a PUA needs to be developing his own style. One thing I will say about Papa is that he is incredibly good with creating strong frames.
Alphamale – This guy is incredibly impressive. Most of his game is based on using pivots to pull girls for him. I haven’t hung out with the guy enough to get an idea of how good he is, but from what I have seen, his game is awesome.
Well, there ya go, my Top 10. Hopefully one day I’ll make my list, but I doubt it! I’m much too hard on myself, lol.
That’s why they call me…
Thundercat
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A couple from the United Kingdom had to cut their vacation in Venice short after being caught swimming in the Grand Canal.
The 35-year-old British man and his 25-year-old Romanian girlfriend were forced to return to their home in the UK on Thursday, the same day they arrived in the city, after gondoliers reported them to local police for taking a dip in the canal.
The pair were fined €450 ($529) each and expelled from Venice for 48 hours, marking the 1,136th such sanction to be handed down to badly behaved tourists in the city so far this year, according to the Venice City Police.
The unnamed couple took the plunge near the Accademia bridge near St. Mark’s Square and gondoliers at the Rio San Vidal kiosk immediately called authorities, who removed them from the water.
“I thank the gondoliers for their cooperation and timely reporting,” said Venice Security Councillor Elisabetta Pesce in a statement published by city authorities on Friday.
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“Venice must be defended from those who disrespect it: protecting the city means ensuring decorum for residents and visitors who experience it with civility.”
Swimming in the Venice canals is prohibited for a variety of reasons, including the intense boat traffic and the cleanliness — or lack thereof — of the water, according to the city’s tourism ministry.
Of the 1,136 orders of expulsion from the city so far this year, about 10 were for swimming.
Related article
Tourists take photographs on the Rialto Bridge in Venice, Italy, on Saturday, April 8, 2023. Italy’s upcoming budget outlook will probably incorporate a higher growth forecast for 2023 followed by a worsened outlook for subsequent years, according to people familiar with the matter. Photographer: Andrea Merola/Bloomberg via Getty Images
Rising waters and overtourism are killing Venice. Now the fight is on to save its soul
“Since the beginning of the year, we have issued a total of 1,136 orders of expulsion for incidents of degradation and uncivilized behavior,” Venice local police deputy commander Gianni Franzoi said in a statement shared with CNN.
Poor visitor behavior is one of the worst byproducts of overtourism, Franzoi said, and incidents are on the rise.
In July 2024, an Australian man was fined and expelled for diving off the Rialto Bridge after his friends posted about it on social media.
The year before, two French tourists were fined and expelled for skinny dipping in the canal under the moonlight. In August 2022, a German man was fined and expelled for surfing in the canal.
Related article
Aerial view of the plagued ghost island of Poveglia in the Venetian lagoon
‘Haunted’ Venice island to become a locals-only haven where tourists are banned
Venice’s authorities have been trying to balance the need for visitor income with residents’ demands for a city that works for them.
Day trippers now pay a €10 entrance fee on summer weekends and during busy periods throughout the year.
The city has also banned tour groups of more than 25 people, loudspeakers and megaphones, and even standing on narrow streets to listen to tour guides.
“It was necessary to establish a system of penalties that would effectively deter potential violations,” Pesce said when the ordinance was passed in February.
“Our goal remains to combat all forms of irregularities related to overtourism in the historic lagoon city center,” she added.
“The new rules for groups accompanied by guides encourage a more sustainable form of tourism, while also ensuring greater protection and safety in the city and better balancing the needs of Venice residents and visitors.”
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Tourists fined and banned from Venice for swimming in canal
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A couple from the United Kingdom had to cut their vacation in Venice short after being caught swimming in the Grand Canal.
The 35-year-old British man and his 25-year-old Romanian girlfriend were forced to return to their home in the UK on Thursday, the same day they arrived in the city, after gondoliers reported them to local police for taking a dip in the canal.
The pair were fined €450 ($529) each and expelled from Venice for 48 hours, marking the 1,136th such sanction to be handed down to badly behaved tourists in the city so far this year, according to the Venice City Police.
The unnamed couple took the plunge near the Accademia bridge near St. Mark’s Square and gondoliers at the Rio San Vidal kiosk immediately called authorities, who removed them from the water.
“I thank the gondoliers for their cooperation and timely reporting,” said Venice Security Councillor Elisabetta Pesce in a statement published by city authorities on Friday.
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“Venice must be defended from those who disrespect it: protecting the city means ensuring decorum for residents and visitors who experience it with civility.”
Swimming in the Venice canals is prohibited for a variety of reasons, including the intense boat traffic and the cleanliness — or lack thereof — of the water, according to the city’s tourism ministry.
Of the 1,136 orders of expulsion from the city so far this year, about 10 were for swimming.
Related article
Tourists take photographs on the Rialto Bridge in Venice, Italy, on Saturday, April 8, 2023. Italy’s upcoming budget outlook will probably incorporate a higher growth forecast for 2023 followed by a worsened outlook for subsequent years, according to people familiar with the matter. Photographer: Andrea Merola/Bloomberg via Getty Images
Rising waters and overtourism are killing Venice. Now the fight is on to save its soul
“Since the beginning of the year, we have issued a total of 1,136 orders of expulsion for incidents of degradation and uncivilized behavior,” Venice local police deputy commander Gianni Franzoi said in a statement shared with CNN.
Poor visitor behavior is one of the worst byproducts of overtourism, Franzoi said, and incidents are on the rise.
In July 2024, an Australian man was fined and expelled for diving off the Rialto Bridge after his friends posted about it on social media.
The year before, two French tourists were fined and expelled for skinny dipping in the canal under the moonlight. In August 2022, a German man was fined and expelled for surfing in the canal.
Related article
Aerial view of the plagued ghost island of Poveglia in the Venetian lagoon
‘Haunted’ Venice island to become a locals-only haven where tourists are banned
Venice’s authorities have been trying to balance the need for visitor income with residents’ demands for a city that works for them.
Day trippers now pay a €10 entrance fee on summer weekends and during busy periods throughout the year.
The city has also banned tour groups of more than 25 people, loudspeakers and megaphones, and even standing on narrow streets to listen to tour guides.
“It was necessary to establish a system of penalties that would effectively deter potential violations,” Pesce said when the ordinance was passed in February.
“Our goal remains to combat all forms of irregularities related to overtourism in the historic lagoon city center,” she added.
“The new rules for groups accompanied by guides encourage a more sustainable form of tourism, while also ensuring greater protection and safety in the city and better balancing the needs of Venice residents and visitors.”
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It’s no secret how President Donald Trump feels about sports teams turning away from Native American mascots. He’s repeatedly called for the return of the Washington Redskins and Cleveland Indians, claiming their recent rebrands were part of a “woke” agenda designed to erase history.
But one surprising team has really gotten the president’s attention: the Massapequa Chiefs.
The Long Island school district has refused to change its logo and name under a mandate from New York state banning schools from using team mascots appropriating Indigenous culture. Schools were given two years to rebrand, but Massapequa is the lone holdout, having missed the June 30 deadline to debut a new logo.
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The district lost an initial lawsuit it filed against the state but now has the federal government on its side. In May, Trump’s Department of Education intervened on the district’s behalf, claiming the state’s mascot ban is itself discriminatory.
Massapequa’s Chiefs logo — an American Indian wearing a yellow feathered headdress — is expected to still be prominently displayed when the fall sports season kicks off soon, putting the quiet Long Island hamlet at the center of a political firestorm.
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The district is now a key “battleground,” said Oliver Roberts, a Massapequa alum and the lawyer representing the school board in its fresh lawsuit against New York claiming that the ban is unconstitutional and discriminatory.
The Trump administration claims New York’s mascot ban violates Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits recipients of federal funds from engaging in discriminatory behavior based on race, color or national origin — teeing up a potentially precedent-setting fight.
The intervention on behalf of Massapequa follows a pattern for a White House that has aggressively applied civil rights protections to police “reverse discrimination” and coerced schools and universities into policy concessions by withholding federal funds.
“Our goal is to assist nationally,” Roberts said. “It’s us putting forward our time and effort to try and assist with this national movement and push back against the woke bureaucrats trying to cancel our country’s history and tradition.”
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The directives largely roll back efforts made over the last decade attempting to eradicate toxic culture in the military, both to decrease harmful behaviors like harassment, but also to meet practical needs of getting people in uniform and keeping them there longer as the military branches faced years of struggles filling the ranks.
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Many major reforms were described by the officials who implemented them as driven by that need; when former Defense Secretary Ash Carter opened up combat roles to women in 2015, he said the military “cannot afford to cut ourselves off from half the country’s talents and skills” if it wanted to succeed in national defense.
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And while the military had made changes in recent years in an attempt to lessen instances of harassment, discrimination or toxic leadership by creating reporting mechanisms so that troops would come forward, Hegseth said those efforts went too far and were undercutting commanders.
“The definition of ‘toxic’ has been turned upside down, and we’re correcting that,” Hegseth vowed on Tuesday, adding that the Defense Department would be undertaking a review of words like “hazing” and “bullying” which he said had been “weaponized.”
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The Oktoberfest beer festival in Munich will remain shut on Wednesday until at least 5 pm (1500 GMT) after police said they discovered explosives in a residential building in the north of the city that caught fire and left one person dead.
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As part of a major operation that police earlier said posed no danger to the public, special forces were investigating an area in the north of Munich where Bild newspaper and multiple other reports said shots and explosions had been heard.
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Police said the residential building had been deliberately set on fire in a family dispute and one person who was found there had died and another was missing, but not believed to be in danger.
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Special forces had to be brought in to defuse booby traps found in the building, according to police.
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“For this reason, the opening of the festival grounds has been delayed,” police added.
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Don Mueang International Airport, Thailand (DMK)
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Are you an avgeek with a mean handicap? Then it’s time to tee off in Bangkok, where Don Mueang International Airport has an 18-hole golf course between its two runways. If you’re nervous from a safety point of view, don’t be — players at the Kantarat course must go through airport-style security before they hit the grass. Oh, you meant safety on the course? Just beware of those flying balls, because there are no barriers between the course and the runways. Players are, at least, shown a red light when a plane is coming in to land so don’t get too distracted by the game.
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Although Suvarnabhumi (BKK) is Bangkok’s main airport these days — it opened in 2006 —Don Mueang, which started out as a Royal Thai Air Force base in 1914, remains Bangkok’s budget airline hub, with brands including Thai Air Asia and Thai Lion Air using it as their base. Although you’re more likely to see narrowbodies these days, you may just get lucky — in 2022, an Emirates A380 made an emergency landing here. Imagine the views from the course that day.
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Sporty airport outfit being worn by writer
CNN Underscored: Flying sucks. Make it better with these comfy airport outfits for women
Sumburgh Airport, Scotland (LSI)
The road south from Lerwick cuts across the runway of Sumburgh Airport on Shetland.
The road south from Lerwick cuts across the runway of Sumburgh Airport on Shetland. Alan Morris/iStock Editorial/Getty Images
Planning a trip to Jarlshof, the extraordinarily well-preserved Bronze Age settlement towards the southern tip of Shetland? You may need to build in some extra time. The ancient and Viking-era ruins, called one of the UK’s greatest archaeological sites, sit just beyond one of the runways of Sumburgh, Shetland’s main airport — and reaching them means driving, cycling or walking across the runway itself.
There’s only one road heading due south from the capital, Lerwick; and while it ducks around most of the airport’s perimeter, skirting the two runways, the road cuts directly across the western end of one of them. A staff member occupies a roadside hut, and before take-offs and landings, comes out to lower a barrier across the road. Once the plane is where it needs to be, up come the barriers and waiting drivers get a friendly thumbs up.
Amata Kabua International Airport, Marshall Islands (MAJ)
Fly into Majuro and you’ll skim across the Pacific and land on the runway that’s just about as wide as the sandbar-like island itself.
Fly into Majuro and you’ll skim across the Pacific and land on the runway that’s just about as wide as the sandbar-like island itself. mtcurado/iStockphoto/Getty Images
Imagine flying into Majuro, the capital of the Marshall Islands in Micronesia. You’re descending down, down, and further down towards the Pacific, no land in sight. Then you’re suddenly above a pencil-thin atoll — can you really be about to land here? Yes you are, with cars racing past the runway no less, matching you for speed.
Majuro’s Amata Kabua International Airport gives a whole new meaning to the phrase “water landing”. Its single runway, just shy of 8,000ft, is a slim strip of asphalt over the sandbar that’s barely any wider than the atoll itself — and the island is so remote that when the runway was resurfaced, materials had to be transported from the Philippines, Hong Kong and Korea, according to the constructors. “Lagoon Road” — the 30-mile road that runs from top to toe on Majuro — skims alongside the runway.
Don’t think about pulling over, though — there’s only sand and sea on one side, and that runway the other.
Related article
Barra Airport, Scotland
At Scotland’s beach airport, the runway disappears at high tide
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