Mystery on whether Attraction is Necessary

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Well, a while back I posted a link to a thread started by Formhandle on the Advanced board about whether attraction was necessary or not. It was an interesting concept, even if I think Formhandle missed the boat a bit. Regardless, Mystery decided to chime in. Here’s what he had to say:

Mystery writes:
without attraction you cannot isolate. the theory is absurd. (but it was a good exercise for me in thinking it through just in case.)

I don’t know if it’s absurd, persay. But I do think Mystery makes a good point. You can check out what now has become a monster thread here.

Be the Prize OR Go Get Her, Not Both

ijjjji has a monster thread going in the advanced section of mASF I found interesting. It has to do with either being the prize and letting the girl pursue you, or cavemanning/gunwitching her into submission. Lots of long debate on this one, and an interesting topic, though I find it funny he doesn’t mention Swinggcat in his initial post when he discusses Prizing. You can check it out here.

DYD and Your Reality

A great post by Sirducer on how to handle shit-tests the DYD way is up in the General Forum of mASF. But what makes this thread really great is Neo-Rio’s reply, which only reinforces my opinion that this guy is one of the few who really knows what he’s talking about.

Neo-Rio writes:
Hanging up and cutting her off doesn’t get you laid any.
Threatening to walk away will get you what you want. Even worse, allowing the woman to walk away will get you zero because sometimes they will take you up on the offer.

You have to control the situation enough to talk the reason out of her and not give up on her, (or let her give up on you) until you solve the issue.
(Surprisingly, this is how families stay together and not get divorced. If people weren’t so willing to use the “You can’t fire me I quit” bluff…..)

If a chick is making a bullshit excuse, it’s actually because she’s scared of rejection and thinks that by being a jerk she can attract you (sound familiar guys?). It’s taken me YEARS to figure this out, but it only just clicked for me last weekend (I think…).
So my response to chick bullshit is:

(wait for it………)

“Let’s Just Be Friends”

(Hopefully a few lit up light-globes will now appear above several people’s heads)

You can read the whole thread here.

Main Key to this Game

CajunPimp has a great post up on the basics of solid game. Good content there. Any newbies should definitely read it, and it never hurts for the old guys to brush up on the basics. You can check the thread out here.

Patterning to Direct Bluntness

Neo-Rio is quickly becoming my favorite poster on mASF. His stuff is consistently good, and I think that it stems from his own experiences in field work. I say this because his views seem to be mimicking mine when it comes to my in-field experiences. Neo has put up a new post on mASF detailing his current philosophy on PUA. Here’s how it starts off:

One thing I know about male seduction, is that it you can’t appear to be sneaky when wanting a woman. You have to be upfront, honest, and in their face about what you want with no apologies.

Good stuff. I’m gonna read this one a few times. You can read it for yourself here.

Thundercat

Alpha vs. Beta. Literally.

There is a monster thread in the Advanced forum on mASF by softcontrol about Alphas, Betas, and Gammas. The ironic thing is, softcontrol’s old nemesis — the mighty Toecutter — pops in and pretty much destroys the guy’s argument. Softcontrol argues of course, but it literally becomes the Alpha (Toecutter) vs. the Beta (softcontrol) as the thread progresses, and toecutter gets bored and eventually stops posting. Then, Ross Jeffries (The Gamma, apparently) chimes in and has to be scolded by Formhandle about taking a good thread and dragging it into the mud. So funny, its tragic.

BTW, this thread is fucking long, so if you’re dead set on reading it, set aside a good couple of hours.

Thundercat

ASD Tips and Tricks

Harmless from Dating ReEnhanced writes:

When I’m dealing with a party girl in a club, where I’ve gamed her and VERY quickly raised her buying temp, (I’m talking minutes) I do something like this to prevent flakes IF I can’t pull:

Me: ”Look, I’m leaving, but give me your number so we can hook up this weekend (or whatever meet we’ve planned, preferably)… But listen, I don’t like flakey girls, so if you don’t want to hook up, then…”

She gives me the number, promises me she wants to see me again. Great. So what? I’ve been doing this for months.

But THIS is the part I wasn’t doing before. This is what makes it work so well:

Me: ”You know what, I don’t know about you. You look like a bad girl. In fact, I think you’re FULL OF SHIT. I’m DELETING YOUR NUMBER right now…”

She’ll BEG me not to, BEG me to call her, PROMISE me she’ll come over, etc.

–

Harmless

Ah, the willingness to walk away. Very powerful young grasshopper. You can read the whole thread here.

Thundercat

Mental Notes 2

Zen Dragon chimed in on the DC List yesterday with a great little post about things he needs to be more aware of out in the field. I’m reposting it here with his permission.

Here are some mistakes I’ve been making, which i will NOT repeat ever again. If you’re winging with me and noticing me doing any of these things, please pinch my nipples as hard as you can.

1) When the girl is telling a story, or trying to be funny, let her talk, give her the chance to display her value. DON’T cut her off with Negging or C&F. What is up with the constant urge to interrupt and neg??? BE A GOOD LISTNER, stop trying to talk all the godamn time.

2) When the girl is all of a sudden talking about leaving. DON’T panic and DON’T push for a close immediately. Stay chill and be cool. Wait to see what she does first. It could be a bluff. Or if she really likes me, she will show signs of wanting to bridge. If she doesn’t bridge, I will do it, but delay it as much as possible. Trying to bridge right after she says she’s leaving is fucking needy!!! RELAX DAMNIT!!!

3) When the girl suggests venue change or bridging or getting together again, DON’T FUCKING INTERRUPT HER!!!!!!!!! What the fuck??? Let her tell me what she has in mind. Why the fuck do I have that stupid urge to jump in to offer my suggestions??? Too happy or something??? Shut the fuck up and LET HER TALK.

4) DON’T go flirt with another girl in front of my target for social proof when we’re already at the RAPPORT/COMFORT PHASE. Just how fucking insecure am I??? Show some loyalty to her and stop acting like a slut!!!

5) DO NOT kino seduce the girl infront of her friends!!! DO NOT kino seduce the girl without sufficient rapport. DO NOT kino seduce the girl in public unless she’s giving kino IOIs. IT DOES NOT WORK. ASD ASD ASD. FLAKE FLAKE FLAKE. That’s all you get. So cut that shit already.

ZD

Yes, yes, must remember — ASD ASD ASD. FLAKE FLAKE FLAKE. Make the bad man stop… sigh. Too much shit to cut. =)

Thundercat

Mystery Offers Advice

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 2/3/04

Mystery posted a semi-article on mASF concerning the logistics of sarging with a crew. I found the article to be extremely good, with lots of great advice. Usually when I go out, it will be with 1 or 2 other guys, and when we sarge, we split up, sometimes entering sets as wings when needed. I’m not sure how other people roll, but it seems like they could be doing it wrong, so I’m reposting Mystery’s article here for everyone’s benefit.

What is a CREW?

A CREW is a group of PUAs (some of them advanced, others newbies) who roll together for the purpose of sarging. Crews have generally consisted of anywhere from 3 to 6 people … even More! Not good.

Unless your crew is better than you in the game, consider not rolling in such numbers as this is an AFC behavior. You should not roll with any more than 2 other men. Rolling in large numbers is fine so long as all other people in your crew are female.

I have, in the past, conducted or participated in huge in-field workshops as many as 17 students large (TD and Papa’s seminars – great MM spin-off stuff – you GOTTA see Papa’s AMOG tactics LIVE. You’ll shit yourself laughing! Great stuff). Thing is, this behavior completely taints the field. Even my last workshop, which had 7 students, was TOO large. I have resolved to limit my workshops to only 4 students (plus one wing) so that we can split up and be less conspicuous when we go into clubs. With only 2 sets of 3 guys (separated by 5 minutes) we solve SO MANY PROBLEMS and you learn so much more. Less herding people like cattle (and women KNOWING something is up) and more personal attention is the objective.

Rolling in huge cockfarms conveys to women that you ”hunt in packs”. That means YOU are chasing women, and THEY are NOT chasing YOU. if women feel YOU are doing the chasing, then you are NOT being chased by women and thereby NOT triggered a woman’s ”sexual pre-selection switch”.

Any more than being in groups of 3 guys and you come off AFC. Its one thing to get together as an all male group to talk about the game there was a playlist meeting conducted at my place yesterday – papa brought it all together and they
brought in a very bright speaker from the UK (sorry I only know his real name and forget his online presence name right now) but its wholly another to continue to take the cockfest outside to sarge.

So here is how I strongly feel we should ‘roll’:

Have ONE wing. and maybe a newbie to give back some. TOPS. Then, en devour to roll with women (allowing the success of previous nights to assist in building social proof in future nights) only. Going out alone is FINE! Going out with a wing is FINE. going out with a woman is BETTER but 2 women is MUCH BETTER. going out with 2 guys is SORTA OK … but you need to be with females soon after entering a public gathering. If you are a newbie, dont go out in large numbers … you are doing yourself a disservice because the quantity of men you roll with conveys that you are ”scoping for chicks” – that makes it a LOT harder to get a woman’s interest – and a lot harder to learn anything (no personal attention). Also, it is often a case of the blind leading the blind (as was happening at one point in the montreal lair – Im sure they have solved the problem since).

A LAIR should NOT sarge together. They should at most break up into groups of 3 people (although 2 is BEST – and again, the blind should NOT be leading the blind so make sure at least ONE has some TD style MAD SKILLZ!) If you are a NEWBIE, join a LAIR! learn all you can and then sarge in SMALL GROUPS. 2 PUAs may allow you to tag along as the 3rd guy but you cant crowd them and make it appear they are a 3 set all the time. You will learn a LOT more rolling into clubs in SMALL groups with at least ONE GREAT PUA than in large groups that dont know what they are doing.

The main rule is: KEEP IT SMALL, unless you have a LOT of women. Also, make it a rule to bring a pivot, even if she is NOT worthy of your ‘attention’.

So … from now on, a CREW is 3 guys … not 5 … or more. My future workshop (which will include both DAY and EVENING sarging – 12 hours per day over 3 days) will consist of 2 separate CREWS … of course students will switch from one crew to the other from time to time.

Never stand there in a group larger than 3 guys. If you find yourself allowing that to happen just tell the boys ”we’re cockfarming” and split up (especially in a workshop or newbie training scenario).

Keep it UP!
Mystery

There you go. Words of wisdom from one of the best in the game. I’d link you to the actual thread, but mASF seems to be down right now. I’ll update this post when it gets fixed.

Thundercat

Power, Directness, Manipulation, & Seduction

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 1/30/04

Neo-Rio has a great thread going on mASF about the real origins of seduction and how men should act to counter it when it comes to women.  It’s a long thread and I haven’t read through the whole thing yet, but so far I like what I’ve seen.  You can read it all here.

Thundercat

Girlfriend Stealer

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 1/28/04

Thanks to ijjji for pointing this out.

Thundercat

Making MLTR Work

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 1/28/04

Sir Italian has a rather nice article on making Multiple Long Term Relationships work.  I’m still waiting to get to the point where I can pull something like this off and join the ranks of the MLTR masters such as Zan, Style, and Masterclass, so I found this to be a good read.  Sir Italian makes it sound easy.  Ah, to be European… oh well.

You can read the blog entry here.

Thundercat

Courting Attention

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 1/12/04

So I was out with my buddy Alleycat the other night, and he was doing some pretty cool stuff.  The thing I like about Alleycat is that he’s not afraid to jump in there.  He’ll walk up to any girl out there and start talking.  This is a good trait to have as a seducer and an excellent (some would say “must have”) trait for a Pick-Up Artist.  But I noticed something with him that I had forgotten in my time off, something that made his approaches so much easier than they would have been.

Basically, Alleycat was wearing a big, sparkly, mirrored cowboy hat.  It was a little odd, because it really didn’t match his outfit – but that doesn’t matter.  What matters is that it draws attention.  While we were out, I saw SO MANY girls turn his way and look him up and down because he was wearing that hat.  And more than that, he knew it too, and used this as an excuse to approach.  My guess is that it is similar to that PAIMAI stuff that exists on ASF, which basically boils down to a Pre-Approach Invitation (some call it an Indicator of Interest, but I digress).

Regardless, this one goofy looking cowboy hat made him instantly more popular with the ladies.  This reminded me of an experience I had with Mystery at the Highland’s night club a few months back.  Mystery popularized the whole theory of “peacocking,” which is basically a way of dressing that is meant to attract attention.  If none of you have ever met Mystery, he very much practices what he preaches, dressing up in outrageous outfits, even going so far as to have a flashing sign on his chest touting his name.  At the Highlands, I got to see him pull some amazing stuff, but a lot of it was due to the fact that the image he created instantly drew attention to himself.  Seeing women’s eyes grow wide and follow him as he walked by was a real sight to see.  Then, seeing their reactions when he approached them was even better, because they were already curious to talk to him and this made them more susceptible to his routines.  (Just another reason why Mystery is a master, I suppose.  =)

Which brings me to my original thought, which in a way is an outgrowth of Mystery’s peacock theory.  Basically, it’s the theory behind being an attention whore.  The difference is, attention whores actively seek your attention with their words and actions.  But when you COURT ATTENTION, you are passively receiving what you want based on how others perceive you.

Everything is judged by its appearance.  If you go unseen, you escape judgment, but you also escape notice.  You never want to let yourself get lost in the crowd.  Stand out.  You need to be conspicuous – a sore thumb.  You need to make yourself a magnet of attention by appearing larger, more colorful, and more mysterious than the rest of the moes out there.

If you look at women, that’s what they do.  They try to stand out.  They try to draw attention by dressing sexy, or different, or colorful.  The problem with men is that men tend to neglect fashion and blend together.  Taking it as far as someone like Mystery does insures you will stand out and it will also make your approaches easier.

Dressing in a way that courts attention also has a weird psychological side effect that will improve your field work.  In a way, when you dress outside the norm, you create a different character for yourself, one where you are less inhibited and more daring.  You can take more chances with women and get farther with them because of it.

So I guess what I’m trying to say is that when you go somewhere that’s stimulation overload – such as a bar or a club – with the goal to seduce, you want to draw attention to yourself by creating an image that is sure to draw attention.  Do anything to make yourself seem larger than life and stand out from those who surround you.  It doesn’t matter if the attention is bad or not, because either way it will accomplish the goal – you will get noticed!  And any sort of notoriety will aid in your effort to get women.

Thundercat

How To Treat Women When A Sarge Goes Bad

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/31/03

Okay, so let’s talk about something that will inevitably happen to everyone who actually gets out in the field from time to time, and that’s what to do when things go bad in a sarge.

This was a topic that was brought up and caught my eye on the SS list before I got Kicked and Banned from it. There was a guy who basically asked what you do if you go after a girl at a place you frequent, mess up, and keep seeing her again and again at that location and feel awkward about it.

This really comes down to two things in my opinion:

1.) Field experience
2.) Ability to read body language and IOIs

Something that comes with field experience is learning how to guage the level of interest the girl has with you. If she’s dropping Indicators of Interest (pupil dialation, logical rapport building questions, lots of kino, etc) then chances are good she will give you contact information, like a number, if you ask for it. Lots of guys will go for the number close after they have mild interest from the girl, and will continue pushing the subject after the girl refuses, which only reinforces their position NOT to give you the number.

One thing I try never to do (though sometimes I slip up and do it anyways) is ask a girl for her number. The guys who are good at this that I have observed rarely ask for any contact info. Often times, they will leave it up to the girl to ask for their number or offer her’s. Sometimes they have to prod the girls to do it, but if the women are interested, they’ll follow their lead.

One thing you don’t want to do is keep persisting like perviously mentioned. That’s too strong a sign of neediness. Best to let it blow by if they refuse and end it with a “Pleasure meeting you.” If she does frequent the club regularly, then chances are you’ll run into her again eventually anyway so you’ll have another chance at meeting her. This is something I know the mighty Zan does all the time. He will NEVER ask for a number, and simply relies on seeing the same girl again as a way to re-establish contact.

One thing most guys will do if they mess up with a girl is to ignore them if they see them again. I think ignoring girls who’ve snubbed you in the past is a bad move. I personally will at least go up to them and do a short set, re-esablish contact, be friendly, and move on. Let them know that their rejection did not hurt me and that I wasn’t just after the lay. It’s also a “gentle persistence” tactic I’ve picked up from watching a few other guys operate. Primoman is VERY good at this. If they see you/talk to you enough, you become harmless in their eyes and can fly under their radar, so to speak, and renew the sarge.

So what’s the best way to keep from messing up a sarge? Well, probably the best way is to know your shit! But since field work is really the only way to do that, you’re gonna have to brush up on the theory. Basically, you can do a couple things to prevent mess-ups from happening, but they all have to do with:

1. Raising your value
2. Creating a need for your validation within the girl
3. Creating challenges and obstacles for that validation

The best method for doing this in my opinion is the Swinggcat Method, but Mystery Method is also very good at this type of thing, which is probably why I rate them as the two best systems out there right now.

Where most guys often mess up is with the “creating challenge” part. Your average dude starting this stuff might try some inactive disinterest tactic where he walks around acting like a player in the hopes that the girl will notice and be enraptured with his “player-hood.” This very rarely works since most girls will assume you’re not interested if you aren’t talking to them, and if you haven’t captured their attention enough to chase you, they will generally leave you to your own devices.

Basically, offering challenges comes down to being difficult with a girl the same way a hot girl would be difficult with a guy who’s chasing her. Little things like not doing what she wants, teasing her, cracking jokes about her, takeaways, intentional undermining, and not taking her shit go a long way to creating this challenge. You can even get more advanced and create those “tension loops” Swinggcat talked about in his last newsletter, which are excellent ways of creating challenges.

You see, the distinction isn’t that you’re creating challenges for HER to overcome in order to get YOU, rather, YOU BECOME a challenge to HER normal view of reality, and that intrigues her to figure you out. If a girl percieves a guy as being a “player,” I’ve found they’ll simply opt to let him play his games while she finds some other chump who’ll play her’s. However, if a guy can successfully destroy a girl’s current reality and suck her into his reality where she has to struggle to understand his actions, she will start the process of attraction right then and there, and that’s basically what challenges are meant to do.

Another area where guys can mess up doing this stuff is in Day-2 game, where they get back together with the girl. Many newbies have trouble overcoming the “date” frame where they take a girl out. They just simply don’t know what to do differently and end up falling into AFC-traps from before. All I do is ask them to join me for an activity I’m already doing. You still are technically “dating” the girl, but just be sure that you aren’t paying all the bills (I say keep it to under $30) and its an activity that you like to do anyway, regardless of how she views it. She’s just a guest tagging along with you. You also want to use multiple venues in your outting as a time distortion tactic to build trust and comfort, rather than just staying in one place the whole time.

That’s what “structuring opportunities” is. Its simply giving her chances to be with you. But rather than putting it in the frame of “I want you, please go out with me,” you want to approach it as “I’m gonna go have fun and you can come if you want.” This is a trick I picked up from my buddy MasterClass, so props to him for sharing the wealth! =)

Okay, enough inane rambling for one post. Hope some of you get something from this.

Thundercat

Tug of War

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/29/03

The thing I love about TD is that the better he gets at this PUA thing, the more bitter his outlook on women becomes. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarilly, because that outlook is usually true. Women are fucked up creatures indeed, and the more experience I get, the more I realize the extent of their fucked-upedness. This recent Post by TD is something I’ve heard him cover in workshop before, so its nothing new to me, but its the first time I’ve seen him post it publically. I think its a really excellent post, so I’ve decided to share it with all of you.

**************************************************
Topic: Tug of war – the ultimate PUA battle (1 of 6), Read 729 times
Conf: >> Advanced
From: TylerDurden tylerdurden9982@hotmail.com
Date: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 07:43 PM

Here’s how it goes down:

The girl hits full buying temperature. Maybe you did it. Maybe another natural player did it. Maybe her boyfriend pissed her off and de-validated her. Maybe she’s on vacation, and she decides she wants it. Whatever the way, she’s decided she wants sex TONIGHT, and somebody is going to get it.

You see this in Leceister Square in London England. The girls get hit on all night. The guys hitting on them are getting blown out left and right. But yet, at the same time, their buying temperature is escalating and escalating.

And as we all know, buying temperature is TRANSFERABLE. You can literally walk up to a girl who is being picked up by a player, blow him out, and pull the girl and hook up with her within 45 minutes. I’ve done it in front of audiences, while they sit there jaw dropped. It appears that I’ve done something inconceivable, when in fact what I’ve done it stupidly easy, just as long as you have a bit of balls.

In nighttime social environments, pickup is all about FOLLOW THE SHINY THING GIRLS.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW THE SHINY THING.. ITS GOING OVER HERE..

That’s a metaphor I first got from Toecutter I think, and its funny as hell because its true. In clubs, girls are like little kittens in a prairie, jumping from one stimulus to the next. Chase the butterfly little kitten.. chase it.. chase it.. no wait, a leaf.. chase it.. no wait!, a bird… chaaaaase it….

Girls in clubs, its the same shit. Dance…. Dance…. Drink.. Drink…. No wait! Lights! Music!!! Guys hitting on us… We’re listening to them… They’re fun…. No wait! They’re players… Runnn awaaaaaay!!!! Wait, its my BEST FRIEND… I LOVE HER… HUG MY BEST FRIEND!!! GRIND HER!!!!

God, how do I deal with this shit on a nightly basis? It’s like they’re on crack. Do you guys see this shit? They see their friends and they run up and scream and hug eachother?

At clubs, most girls look like mindless stimulation seeking zombies. When I run workshops, I call this “the girl is about to pop”. What that means is that you’ll be running the set, but one of them can’t quite hear you or isn’t fully interested. And you see her eyes wandering, and she’s looking around the club. It’s like “This isn’t stimulating enough.. Zombie needs more stimulation.. Seek stimulation.. Find it.. Maintain buying temperature.. Zombie LIKES buying temperature… dancing.. .dancing is buying temperature…. Zombie likes dancing… Let’s go dance.. Zombie needs zombie friends to come with zombie, so zombie is safe…”

GUYS…. – LET’S – GO – DANCE!!!

And POOF, your set is GONE. Your target girl could have LOVED you, but the second her friends say “Let’s go dance”, it is fucking OVER. I’ll see one of the girls looking around, seeking out other stimulation, and I’ll blurt out to my wing “dude, that one’s about to pop”, and then its “Hey! Show’s over here!”, to the chick (like from my “How to take the fuck over a set” post I wrote a few weeks ago).

Anyway, getting back to the topic of tug of war, this is the shit I see all the time. The girl hits buying temperature, and now its whoever has the biggest shiny thing that will fuck her that night.

I’ll have girls telling me they love me and asking where I’m going after the club closes, and then some other dude will move in, and she’ll ignore me and act like I don’t exist. Literally, she’ll just cut me out of her reality. Then I’ll go in and blow the guy out, and he’ll leave, and then the girl will be my best friend again.

Bros, this is the harsh world of pickup. It’s a cold cruel world…

This shit reminds me of rams butting heads on the mating ground. It’s fucking crazy some of the shit I’ve seen and done.

In Las Vegas, I took this girl away from a guy who’d been gaming her all night. I was macking out with her and she’s all over me. She says she wants to go home with me and that the guy she’s with is a chump (even though she is clearly into him, but she just likes me more now, since I opened her even though the guy was right there).

We go to leave the casino, and her friend wants to back in for one last second and say bye to the guys. The guy I took her from grabs her back chats her for a few minutes, and next thing you know he walks her around the casino for the next 45 minutes while I sit there waiting like a puppydog.. FUCK, so CLOSE.. Like I had them at the cab stand, and now I’m back in here by myself??? My girl comes back and says she can’t go home with me anymore, while I see the guy smiling that he’s got her now.

I go off to the side, over to the friend and say that I’m gay, and that I want my girl (her best friend) to be my new best friend and to take her shopping tommorow morning. “Can I stay over?” She believes it, and cockblocks the guy who was about to pull the girl that we were fighting over, and we all go home together. The girl hates me, but her buying temperature is up and she needs sex. Oh yeah, did I mention that she was engaged? Anyway, she’s fucking hot as hell, I’m there, she’s there, and boom, its a done deal.

This was hard core tug of war. The same thing I did in Montreal, when I gamed up this set until they’re ready to go home with me and my wing (while the students watch this go down), but then I have to leave to continue the workshop because its too early in the night, so I leave. Meanwhile some natural french player guys move in and start making out with these girls within about 3 minutes! Why? Because the girls buying temperature is up, and these guys can sense it and they exploit it.

Now these girls want to leave with these 2 french player dudes. So I go in with Stephane (of Cliff’s List fame), and I make best friends with the two girls and tell them that I love their friend because I love them, and that I want to be best friends with them and that I we’ll all be happy together, blah blah.. The girls cockblock the player guys and tell their friends all to go back to my house (incidentally its Cliff’s house from Cliff’s List, who I’m staying with). Our targets keep trying to go back with the French player guys, but I just cockblock the shit out of them by continually whispering into the obstacles ears that I need help from them. In this case there was a fuckup which I talked about in another post. Either way, the French guys were jaw-dropped when we waved, winked, and laughed at them, as we took away their girls.

I’ve done this SO MANY times. I’ll see a girl who’s ready to be pulled, and I just go befriend the obstacles. The obstacles know that their friend is going to sleep with SOMEBODY, so they do what it takes to make sure that somebody is me.

This is hardcore tug of war. You can see it outside clubs at closing times. Accounts are being worked out. Guys are chatting the girls they grinded with all night, trying to get them to “go to the afterbar” or “go eat” with them.

That’s how the pull always goes down. It’s first to go eat or party more or do drugs or drink at a house or hotel, and one thing leads to another. JLaix uses “We’re going to Club Jeffy”. Same type of shit.

I’ve also lost alot of tug of war battles in my day. Of course this is because I’ll go into the battle even in spite of knowing that my odds are poor. I do it just for the education.

The other night in Kingston I had this girl ready to leave with me. I also had a date that night with a hotter girl, and ditched this girl at around 11pm. Twentysix was visiting me in Kingston, and we drove over to the girls house, but I realized that I’d forgotten the address. FUCK. So I go back to the club. Surprise, surprise……. The girl is grinding and making out with some new guy, about to go home with him. Of course, its because I upped her buying temperature FOR the guy. FACK!!!

So I get the friends of the girl to drag her off of him for me. Now she’s all up on me. She’s mine. But I leave for the bathroom for a minute, and I come back and watch the dude who was grinding with her pull her home and fuck her (I found out the next day, because I befriended the friends and called them).

Likewise, I was in Whistler Blackcomb, in British Columbia last weekend. For guys who don’t know what that is, its one of the top ski resorts in the world. Fucking AMAZING place to go. Totally amazing experience. So we ski all day, and go clubbing at night. Twentysix and I had gamed up this 2set the night previous, and had a day2 planned with them at one of the bars on the resort. We show up 2 hours late, and these 2 player guys have moved in on our girls. I underestimate them, because our girls run up to us. I figure they’re some lameasses. They weren’t good looking or big or anything. I say to my girls “Let’s get out of here”, and they’re ready to leave. Out of nowhere, the player guy walks in and says “Let’s go do kareoke”. I laugh at him internally, because I think he’s AFC. But then I notice something. It’s subtle, but its clearly there. He’s not leaning in. He’s not looking needy. He’s directing her what to do. He’s alpha.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK – He’s a player and I misread the play.

Despite being about to leave with us, I watch this guy walk in and outalpha me (I sat there indifferent because I couldn’t CONCEIVE that this guy could be a player), and take my girls from me. We all go to the next club together, and he has her and I’m looking lame for following along. Twentysix’s girl likes him though, and is deciding between this guys’ friend and Twentysix. Twentysix’s competition isn’t too bad, so he blows him out. But the girl tells me “HB decided yesterday after meeting you guys that she was going to get laid tonight. And you guys just came too late.”

Twentysix runs the typical routine that we run when this happens, where one girl is ON but the other girl isn’t. He tells his girl that if her friend isn’t going to make it fun for me that he’ll just leave. His girl begs her friend to hook up with me, but the player guy has me by the balls. I actually learned a SHITLOAD from watching this guy work, which I’ve since encorporated into my game to great effect. So Twentysix games up some other girl who he NEARLY pulls (a super cute blondie, much hotter than his girl), and both girls go home and fuck these two new guys who blew me out.

FUCK FUCK FUCK… I go home alone that night. The same way that many guys have gone home alone because of me. OUCH, I know how it feels now… ahhahaa, its all a game anyway, so I there’s winners and losers. I’ll be a winner again, and I’m sure I’ll lose alot of them too.

For me, when I see its GAME ON with the tug of war, I have key tool’s at my disposal:

1) Unlike 99% of natural players, I know that the key to the target is her peergroup. I befriend the obstacles and bring them ALL home together. I literally TELL DIRECTLY to the obstacles to pull her friends off the competing players, because I like and want to date her friend so that way we can all be a happy family.

2) I’m willing to sit in set and just chat the obstacles, while the players up the target’s buying temperature for me, and I wait for the perfect time to make my move.

3) Out-alpha tactics, posted in “Some AMOG tactics” post I did a while back.

4) Social proof and jealousy. Unlike most players, I can walk into adjacent sets and blow them up, right in front of the girl I want.

5) Tell the obstacles that I’m gay, and worried about the target, and that I want to be her new gay best friend and take her shopping, and I want to save her from that guy. Then the friends push the girl on me and leave her alone with me, and the target has no idea what I’ve told the friends. In cases where the target hear’s that I told the friends that I was gay, I just say either that I was joking, and then makeout and hookup with the target, or I say they’re wrong, or they never said it.. Whatever.

6) I throw up the BIGGER SHINY THING.. I’ll do a magic trick (I rarely use them, but I’ll use them and make the competing guy player be the guy I do the trick on).. I have this one where I snatch a coin out of the guys’ hand, that’s not really magic that I learned at an MM Workshop. It’s basic, but it works because you OWN the guy in front of the girl. I also just plow them with stories or bring over other girls and introduce them, and then tell the pawn-girls I brought over to chat the guy, and then take my girl back.

Again, notice that I NEVER give up. If I see a girl with her buying temperature up, I LOVE the challenge of competing against other players. You see this in Leceister Square in London at the end of EVERY Friday and Saturday night. The girls are walking around totally in state, and the player guys are coming up to them one by one until one of them pulls them. Crazy shit.

Anyway, this is a fun thing that I like to do, and I know most other PUAs aren’t doing this stuff.

I really encourage you guys to have no fear of approaching even 1guy/1girl two sets, and taking the girls. You’d be surprised how often the two barely know eachother. Also, if you EVER and I mean *EVER* see natural players gaming up girls, never be afraid to go in and open ONLY the girls.

How do you know if its natural players? Hahaha, well, I hate to say this, but 9 times out of 10, if the girls look like they’re having a good time (ie: they’re giggly or touching the guy alot), then its a pickup, NOT a boyfriend with his longterm girlfriend. Why? Because girls aren’t having fun if they’re with their LTR. They usually only have fun with players. haaa, sad but true.

So if you see girls all giddy, then its probably a pickup, and you can easily swoop in and play a little tug of war with the other PUAs.

It’s fun, and I often make friends with the other natural PUAs who I’m competing against. In fact some of my friends I’ve met in the field are players whose girls I’ve taken home right from them, earned their respect, and now we hang out.

I have a ton more to say on this topic also, which maybe I’ll post someday or in addition to this. Tug of war is something I do all the time, and I encourage you guys to give it a shot because its WAY easier than it looks. It looks tough, but if you just use the principles you learn from ASF, you’ll find its in fact very easy. Just ignore the social situation, and PLOW THEM FUCK OUT OF THE GIRLS WITH ROUTINES right in front of the guys. Easy shit, and great for ONS.

-TD
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You can find the entire thread here:

http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?121074,23

Thundercat

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