PUA Challenge Guidelines
April 21, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
Since it looks like Hypnotica’s PUA Challenge is going forward, I’d like to offer some guidelines for the challenge. Now, I’m not gonna referee this thing, nor should any of the participants feel they should abide by these guidelines. I just want to offer these ideas to make this PUA Challenge happen.
Guideline 1: Have multiple categories of judging
To help definite how exactly each contestant will be judged, there should be a couple different categories by which the PUA is judged. I recommend the following categories:
- Number of Phone Numbers Collects
- Number of Make-Out Sessions
- Number of Lays
- Number of Second Dates
One night stands or really fast fuck-closes can be hard to pull off. Most girls take a little bit of time to get into bed, so the PUA challenge shouldn’t be judged simply on how many girls you can bang. You should also take into account the number of phone numbers he got, the number of kisses/make-out sessions, and the number of day 2′s. This will help balance things out more, plus, real PUAs do all these things, so it’s important to judge them in all aspects of it.
Guideline 2: Proof Collection
The collection of numbers should be obvious, but only *real* numbers should count. Make-outs, Lays, and Day 2s should be backed up by eyewitness accounts or photographic evidence of some kind. I’m not suggesting you take pictures of the dirty deed, but maybe a photo of the girl laying in bed in the afterglow or something. These pictures won’t be for public viewing, but rather for the two contestants to see when it comes time to match up scores.
Guideline 3: Have a 2-stage challenge.
I think that guys in their own element will have an easier time picking up women than in a foreign environment, so the PUA challenge should have two stages. The first stage is the home field stage, where each participant has a certain amount of time (like say, a week, for example) in their home town to collect evidence of the various categories of pick-up. The second stage should be in neutral territory, such as Los Angeles or New York, for a shorter time period, like a weekend, where the two contestants go out and really compete head-to-head. This way, neither party has the advantage. Then, on the final day (or night), the two contestants can get together with a third party and review their results.
Those are my ideas. You guys have any you’d like to throw out there?
Axerworma on 
MarvinHob on 
Walterfurdy on 
Bcedanexy on 
Billyquari on 
How about “Who has the best cock ring, take a picture to prove it, but not for public viewing, just for Thundercat. Then we’ll know for sure who has the best cock ring of them all. $5000 prize. Though just because you don’t win this competition doesn’t mean you don’t have a good taste in cock rings, just that you didn’t win overall consensus this time.”
So Thundercat, why aren’t you going?
Well, we will work on the guidelines. This may happen in about a month or two. Both of our schedules are tight so we are working on a date. I would never comprimise a womens intimacy or trust. So i am going to be upfront with everything with her. I can talk her into something that make her feel good about doing it and when you go in at the level it is amazing how women will work with you.They love you being upfront and honest. That is a big turnon for women when done with sincerity.So many men hide the truth and women hate that. It is sleazy. I wasn’t even thinking about phone numbers and all that. I was going straight for the gold asap. I don’t work the other way. I am all or nothing, But i am open for new things.
In any way it will be fun.
I think girls should be weighted in categories. Although beauty is in the eye of the beholder, it’s easy to tell who’s in the 7-8 category versus the 9-10 category. Maybe there should be a panel of 3 or 4 moderators/judges that rate the women and add up the scores.
Also, I think each PUA should be given a disposable camera to use to take the pics of the women he PUs, so that we know they didn’t just take an old pic and reuse it.
Let’s not half-ass this. Let’s really make sure the details are being scrutinized so that we can have a clear winner when the smoke clears. Reduce ambiguity as much as possible.
You guys ever noticed how many of the “PUA” are freaks?
You got one that if you watch him walk from behind you would swear he was someones “bottom”. All that is missing is the cock-ring and studded neck collar.
Then you got an 8 foot that wears a ten gallon beaver hat with painted finger nails, real man there, bet the professional ladies are all wet looking at that.
Theres the guy whos body is so big that his head looks like it growing back from being blown off from a ray gun in men and black. Why not call it the trailer trash method, or force her till shes fights back no more.
Oh the 6 or so guys with a big house with no furniture in the rich section….lets all 6 or so of us go out, surely one of us can score.
Lets not forget the paid my debt guy with the 17 year old girlfreind, wow…imagine the seduction talent that went into seducing an underage girl.giggle.
The only smart one is the one that claims not to be a pua, but is a marketing sensation. Lets do another advanced advanced series….we’ll put in more jokes.
Then you got bigcat, wildcat, bobcat,clowncat, and pussycat.
Oh and every seduction club needs your psychopath, goathunting 101.
And then you got the jamiemethod, wow with that name there has to be some creativity invovled.
Shady the guy all he does is have sex all day in between bottles of beer, vaseline, and various toys.
If I left someone out, please don’t be offended, if it weren’t for all of you I would have never talked that drunk puking HB3.789 to be my wife.
Opps…forgot Elvis, hows the engish lessons and what the current currency exchange rate.
I love you all, lets go sarging…:)
I agree with Hypnotica. It should be all or nothing. Anyone can walk up to a girl and get her number and it doesn’t take much to get a girl to kiss you. If thats the rules, just get a random guy from any club to challenge. Date 2′s pah. As Brent says, (paraphrased) why spread out and slow down the process when you both know whats on each others mind.
The best competition is the number of girls fucked in the least amount of time. At least Formhandle wont complain about ‘fools mate’ I see that as the number one thing Mystery will use against Hypnotica in the challenge. As a wise man once said “One mans fools mate is another mans 7-hour lay”
Even just notice the difference in the way Hypnotica words his typical seduction vs. “go up to her, neg her, get social proof of the group, DHV, move to A2, wait for her to DHV, isolate, qualify, neg, show your vunerability, spend 7 hours with her blah blah blah” I know who I’d rather learn from!
Fucking NERDSVILLE
Damn this shit is not cool.
Hey Thundercat,
I like your guidelines.
Some general thoughts to keep in mind:
***Phone number collects/Day 2 ratio: ***
I can walk out of my house right now and collect a bunch of numbers in the next couple of hours. Granted, it takes some skill but not a whole lot.
How many of those girls will show up for a day 2??
I know PUAs who rave about their prowess and what they do out there, but consider that they are talking to 15-20 plus girls a night. On top of that, they have like an 80-90% flake ratio.
(You know who they are, TC!)
*** Quality of girls: ***
If you are claiming to be a super PUA, then you have to be able attract some decent looking girls.
If the girls look like they just walked off the set of a Richard Simmons “Sweating to the Oldies” video, well………..
How much skill does that take?
Obviously, rating looks is highly subjective but I think most of the time we can arrive at some sort of a consensus.
Even harder is to rate the non physical quality of girls, but I guess that’s not something for PUA contests.
However, do consider this: Luring a cocaine snorting, booze gargling “Party chick” back to your house is far different than trying to game a normal girl.
Also, will the guidelines dictate if there is has to be day game, nightclub game, etc?
Anyhow, those are just some thoughts off the top. Devising a guideline won’t be all that easy.
Have fun!
The One
if u get to do a pua-challenge with some damn sense and congruence, that will be a great achievement
How about this. Game the SAME 20 girls and record who escalates the furthest and fastest. The girls would be selected by an independent referee. You alternate who gets first crack at the girl and set time limits for #close, k-close, venue change, tonguedown, grope, lay. If you fail to hit your next escalation point within the alloted time, your challenger gives it some time for her temperature to return to normal and goes in and sarges the same chick.
20 girls should be enough to demonstrate if one pua vs the other is consistently escalating further or faster.
This is all interesting guys, guidelines and all, figuring out how this works.
Honestly I am doing this for fun (and because every time challenges come up nobody steps up to the plate) and if Eric wants to reward the winner with cash that’s nice, too (I will just apply it as a donation to FS and finally finish hardware/software upgrades). It gets you guys to pay attention and gets people talking.
I met Eric way back at the very first DyD seminar and I liked the guy’s attitude – he’s light-hearted & a straight-shooter. Yeah, he’s a big honkin muscular wolverine look-alike while I am shorter-than-average puppy-looking guy but I really am not looking at this like a challenge as I am a chance to hang out with him in his turf and do something fun. Well, what we consider fun anyway – I’m sure regular folks would be like “huh??”
Anyway, before you all go too far spending 10x more time figuring out guidelines than the actual time it takes to do this, I’m not about to be a globe-trotter for this and neither is Eric. I’ll go out to SD and hang there for 2-3 days, then go home (yay… will someone in a fair climate please adopt me?). I believe there will be an objective observer and the rest of the details are rough and, honestly, there will never be a consensus on guidelines. We can talk all day about a wide spectrum of the differences between:
Night Game … Day Game
Bars & Clubs … Street
Normal Chick … Party Chick
Sets … Solo
etc etc etc
And also:
Looks: Good-looking built guy vs normal below-average guy.
Chick Ratings…
Providing proof…
Trusting the observer…
etc etc etc
Challenges like this have been thrown down for years and nobody ever steps up. I don’t know why (“business risk”? LOL). I am personally willing to risk looking like a bumbling amateur (exaggerating) so long as I have fun and it gets people to pay attention to all this for the sake of showing that it’s possible for anyone to STEP UP regardless of outcome.
I’m not going to nit-pick about guideline details, as I believe that will only make me look like I care too much about the outcome and improving my advantages any way I can. I don’t get the sense Eric will nit-pick either, which is cool. The only things I care about in terms of guidelines are: They are convenient, doable, objective, and realistic, and that it’s not mostly exclusive to one kind of locale/venue or one kind of situation. There’s a whole different set of rules and social dynamics in play in all kinds of different scenarios, times of day, types of girls, etc. Focusing on just one or a small set is skewed but trying to cover everything will take too long. It should simply be as balanced as we can realistically make it.
As far as pictures, numbers, etc, I am in the same boat as Eric – I’d rather focus on same-day gold rather than #’s, 2nd day, etc, but then it boils down to environment and logistics as well as game (and tricky to get girls OK with certain things) and it would seem the guy who’s turf this is done on would have the upper hand which, so it would require balancing on the other aspects of the scenarios.
In any case, all that being said, regardless of the outcome I reciprocate an invitation to Eric to hang in Boston sometime in the future.
Love,
Jay
Awesome J! Bring souvenirs!
Oh, he will bring home souvenirs the night i throw the huge stripper party. I am in the same boat a jay. I am not time orientated so putting…a ready set go (frame around it may throw me off however it will be fun…Sometimes i like bubling around it keeps people humble.
People are making it out to be more than it is. This is going to be fun for us and the girls. It will be challenging but once again. It is in the sprit of the pursuit.
Best,
Hypnotica
See what I mean about Eric’s great attitude? Kind of person I like hanging with.
Just remember, guys, if the massive underdog Red Sox can win an end-of-season series against the Yankees after being down 3-0 and then go on to sweep a World Series win, anything else on Earth is possible.
Which brings me to the idea of a PUA League, the MLP (Major League of PUAs). We will have desginated Hitchers, In-Fielders, UGpires, and will change venues each inning. I will be the commissioner. Apple pie will never be the same.
Play ball!
Jay
I’ve got a new found respect for Hypnotica. Bro, if you’re reading this, just know that I dig your style and admire your character. I like the whole “tell her what’s really on your mind approach.” YES, it IS amazing how many women actually respond FAVORABLY to a man who comes at them like tha, isn’t it? Hehehe…without all the bullshit.
I’ll be contacting you soon. You’re more the type of cat that I’d like to learn something more from.
At any rate, I agree with Hynotica: ALL OR NOTHING. You either lay her or you don’t.
And I agree with Jason: The highest number of girls fucked in the least amount of time. The “type” of girl is irrelevant to me so long as the general consenus is that she’s good-looking. Pussy is pussy.
Numbers, email, and kiss closes are not all that difficult to get. They just aren’t. I have a bag full of numbers. Wanna see ‘em?
What’s the point of this “community?” Getting numbers etc? Or getting LAID when you want to? Think about that one.
I think the competition’s primary guideline should be either one of these:
1. A set number of DAYS.
-Objective: Fuck as many girls in those days.
Ex: The most lays in 3 Days or a week WINS.
****
2. A set number of girls.
-Objective: First to fuck a set amount of women.
Ex: The first PUA to fuck 30 women WINS. Time limit not a factor.
****
Either one is still dependent upon quantity of women and the speedy skills required to lay them.
Tingly
Thanks for the compliments tingley1 however every-time i see the words fuck as many girls as possible, i cringe. I can’t perceive it like that because it goes against everything i believe, now i am not opposed to having a great time with as many women as possible but i would never kick a women out of bed because i felt i “needed more points” I don’t function that way. Shit if i met a women who i really really enjoyed and that happens a lot during this “pua challenge i would probably take her with me to the rest of the challenges. Who care’s if it limited the overall chance of winning. I am doing this to challenge myself and have a good time while stepping out of my own box. Besides to truly enjoy a women you have to be present, to have an agenda will limit the amount of enjoyment you can experience with her. I guess doing tantra wouldn’t be beneficial at this point too long…all joking aside. numbers, dates, kisses are all safe it doesn’t fuck with the women and those are fine for a competition…but Being intimate on a deep level with them takes a different mindset, you can’t treat that as nothing. You have to to respect the nature of this type of thing.
Best to you,
Hypnotica
I agree with Hypnotica. We’re not talking about a period of years here, this will probably be 3 days at most and you can’t look at PU as a numbers game in that way. I mean, which would someone rather hear about and learn from? – a guy who might be able to get 3 lays that last 20-minutes each and took 3-4 hours each to get or a guy who gets lots of lays from a truly hot and worthwhile chick and bangs her the whole weekend? Both will be trumped by the guy who gets 3 chicks all at once for the whole weekend but that’s beside the point… you know, the 3 chicks all in bed with ya, and some … uh… what the fuck was I talking about?
Tingly1 makes a good point about a set number of days.
Here is the issue:
Going for the same day lay is great but you are restricting yourself to a certain type of girl.
That’s what makes these contests tough to judge and determine.
You could meet a great girl, but you may need a bit of time to make it work. You can push the envelope and push her into the same night lay, but that could backfire on ya, and you’ll lose what was a great girl.
I suppose the point is to see who can get the most tail.
Jay mentioned a worthwhile chick. A lot of guys in the community cannot get or hang on to “Worthwhile” chicks. I guess that would require a whole different contest entirely.
All that said, I am willing to be an impartial referee should you guys need officials. I’ll bring my own whistle….
The One
Hey Hynotica-
You make a very valid point. That was a poor choice of words and poor choice of concept on my part. To minimize the act of sex to the mere “mechanics” of the act, would be harmful and selfish.
And in all honesty, I like the fact that I can still have a woman that I’ve had sex with involved in my life to some capacity…even if we’re NOT in a relationship or having sex anymore.
I value them.
They are people as well.
****
You could set the competition up like this:
There are so many *ROUNDS* during the competition. In fact 6 rounds (two rounds per day for 3 days). Each round, you’re responsible for attempting the seduction of ONE girl.
Each day, an impartial referee like, let’s say, The One…could point out two random, hot women (one per PUA) and “assign” them to the two PUAs and say to the PUAs “go get ‘em,” in a sense.
The competitors can either “get the girl” into bed or they can’t. ALL or NOTHING. Speed and quantity are not a factor. Skill is.
Once all the rounds are done, and the competition is over, you tally up who was more successful at “getting” the ladies assigned TO THEM throughout the competion.
If there are 6 rounds, then you gain a point for every *success*, and simply get NOTHING for every *failure.* Either guy could win, or they could tie if they both got ALL of (or and equal amount of women in bed). The max skill points each guy could have would of course be 6.
What’s cool about this is that you’re NOT trying to quickly “hit and run” for “quantity in set time” points. Nor are you racing to see who gets a set amount of girls first.
It’s on a round by round INDIVIDUAL basis.
The women wouldn’t be relegated to “objects” or “things.” You have plenty of time to connect for the ladies whom need more time…thus, you wouldn’t lose out on great girls. You have time to actually “get to KNOW them.”
There is a time limit on a PER ROUND BASIS, however.
TOTAL TIME (3 DAYS)
-48 Total hrs. of PU time
-24 Total hrs. of sleep
***
BREAKDOWN
8 hours sleep per day.
8 hours PU etc. per round…for two rounds per day.
(16 total hours PU per day.)
****
The thing to remember is THIS: This IS a competition, either way you slice it. Let’s not get TOO holier than thou and lovey-dovey over the humanity of it. This community WAS built to get LAID when you want. We don’t have to hurt women, but getting laid IS WHY the community was built, in all honesty.
I say this about competition, because I don’t want to make a big fuss out of using terms like “points” for getting women into bed. If you don’t like it, then don’t use the word “COMPETITION.”
And if all you want to do is PU and have fun for fun’s sake, then I feel that the WHOLE community doesn’t need to be addressed for JUST THAT…as we all do THAT much on a daily basis ANYWAY.
This is supposed to be a competition. I can go to a whole in the wall bar to see a couple guy attempt to pick women up for fun.
Hope I’m making sense, with all due respect.
Let the games BEGIN.
Tingly
Typo…lol.
I mean to say, “hole” in the wall.
LOL.
Any comments? Email…
tingly1@yahoo.com
Tingly
The One-
I feel what you’re saying, but I beg to differ. I don’t think you’re restricting yourself to a certain type of girl if you go for the same day lay.
That would imply that women who have sex that fast are “whores” or “easy” and women who don’t are not. That’s just not the case. Hence, the perpetuation of “the double standard.” Women want good sex NOW, just like we do, so that negates that myth.
I’m FBs with several intelligent, classy, kind and beautiful women who fucked me the same day we met. Not to mention that we have a solid friendship that ensued.
In my experience, I’ve observed that average, everyday women…the good girl, politically correct women DO WANT to have sex on the first interaction, but are too afraid to do so because of the social ramifications.
Right now, I’m discovering how easy it is to tap into the lusty side of a woman’s mind within about an hour (or less) of meeting her. I mean, make her want to sleep with me in an that time frame.
Again, a woman doesn’t have to be a party girl for me to be able to do that.
Tingly
This is so funny. It’s really obvious which of you come from gaming (D&D style) backgrounds. I’m surprised no one has suggested involving funny shaped dice or a lair master in with this challenge.
That said, good luck to all of you.
Emerald
Tingly1,
I understand what you are saying, but you sometimes you can push too far going for the same day lay, IMO.
The same can happen with make-outs that happen too quickly in clubs, etc…
I got the same feedback from IN10SE regarding pushing too hard.
Either way, if the point of the contest is to get girls, then I suppose the long term ramifications won’t matter.
You said,
“This community WAS built to get LAID when you want.”
The point of the community, to me, is about being able to attract women.
What you do from there is your choice.
To say that the point is to just get laid is pretty limited.
***There are guys who just want to score with a lot of girls and run their stats high.
***There are guys who are already getting laid but want to be able attract women of their choice.
***There are guys who are shy and introverted and all they want is a nice girlfriend.
***There are older guys who are divorced or single parents and they find themselves back in the jungle of the singles scene and are somewhat confused.
They just want to meet a quality woman.
I have met all of types mentioned above.
Thus, I never look at it as “Teaching guys how to get laid.”
Someone else can handle that.
Anyhow, we have veered way off topic but I had to clear the air on that one
Take care
The One
Want to do what Mystery does? This will help!
Check it out here:
http://tinyurl.com/cr988
You know, I almost considered purchasing the power-lev from ebay because I literally sold my personal one thinking Id get to manufacturing again soon but got too busy with other projects … but then again, I should get around to manufacturing again. It really is a cool effect.
The “Lay as many as you can in a week” sucks because a guy can run around and beg for sex all day long that way. That is no proof of SKILL. Its only proof of RUNNING SPEED.
I think this is simple: you get to choose 5 targets and can use WHATEVER method to get them, your call. You have a week to close the deal with each.
Personally, the reason this works for me is that every set with a hotty that I approach opens and I get attraction. I did only one set tonight. And she asked for my number and after I made it difficult for her I merely took hers. Every set I approach (that isnt used for pawning – which I can point out right before I enter) wins me the option. I only need 5 targets to get 5 lays – or at least 5 OPTIONS for lay – what I mean by that is, the only way I WONT get the lay is if my having day 2s with the other girls gets in the way of things. Logistics only. For instance, the limitations for the girl I worked tonight is, she lives in Chicago and I return to Vegas today. So Ill have to work her on the phone and get her to Vegas – which I can do but with bootcamps every weekend and 2 GFs living with me this is difficult. But for a competition Ill get my 5 targets as close to full monty as I can logistically manage. Oh, and my targets will be all 9.2s+. That’s why we should do it in Vegas … there are no 9s or above in some cities (DC is full of 6.5s for instance).
5 targets and one week from meet to close for each. I dont go for just a ONS. I go for mLTR. Give me 5 targets and Ill show you MM. And no this isnt false bravado. I play SOLID game.
Love !Mystery
In my experience in field – and I challenge ANYONE to prove they have more infield experience that I do – same night lays do cater themselves to a certain type of girl. Look, if the girl’s comfort levels allow for a same night lay great, but if they dont, we dont just throw out the set and go for one that does. We do whatever it takes to take our target all the way to full monty whether it takes 1 or more days. The idea is to WIN. Not win only the ones that will win easily. When I play chess, I dont forfeit just because the opponent is a challenge and the game goes long. I play to WIN. that is SOLID game.
!Mys
PS: Bootcamp is over here in Chicago. Look forward to testimonials from the boys soon. Im beat. Throat is RAW (and swollen). Flying home to Vegas in 8 hours (Going to sleep now).
“For instance, the limitations for the girl I worked tonight is, she lives in Chicago and I return to Vegas today. So Ill have to work her on the phone and get her to Vegas – which I can do but with bootcamps every weekend and 2 GFs living with me this is difficult.”
How much rent do they pay?
I assume it’s one-third each, unless you’ve turned into an AFC-sponsored sugar-daddy.
“In my experience in field – and I challenge ANYONE to prove they have more infield experience that I do – same night lays do cater themselves to a certain type of girl.”
((First off, PIMPS have 100 times more field experience than you (and everyone in the community COMBINED) EVER will…AND…women fuck OTHER MEN…to get the money…TO PAY THE PIMP…to fuck THEM.
So that kills that argument.))
Moving right along….
Little bit of an egotistical, meglomaniac, aren’t we…oh, great one? LMAO. Chill with the ego, man.
Many women once told me that all women are whores, you just have to know how to push the right buttons.
Some women are more sexually liberated than others, but they ALL want to fuck right then and THERE. Put the right button, and it’ll happen. Yeah, with SOME women, you’ll lose ‘em if you push too hard, I agree. But again, it’s been my experience that if you push the right buttons, then the panties usually come off with no problems.
Anyway, dude…you’re tall. Good-looking. Wealthy. Semi-famous. And treat women like shit. And have have a buddy or two with connections to the porn industry.
That covers: Good looks. Money. Fame. Power…and Status. Did I miss anything?
Not saying that you don’t get laid, as I’m sure you have a ton of guys who can vouch for you…THAT much was never in question…the bottom line is…with all of THAT going for you, I seriously doubt that your GAME has anything to do with. You can’t get laid with all of THAT going for you, then you’re either gay or just plain DON’T WANT TO FUCK WOMEN.
Think Brat Pitt has trouble getting laid? Nah. You’re no Brat Pitt, with all due respect, but you get the general idea.
Shit, what man CAN’T fuck a woman who *already* wants to fuck him??..ESPECIALLY when he meets society’s superficial standards of sexual desirability?
To paraphrase Johnny, “Who are you kidding?”
Love
!Tingly
Don’t you just love watching people spout loads of tenuous opinions like they’re irrefutable facts.
I particualy enjoy the bit where they’re so clueless that they don’t even realise they’re doing it.
I witnessed Mystery solid game demo in Chi-town as a seminar student… it does delivery the fucking goods!!!
Whoever says he “planted” chicks in venues is a fuckface.
RESPECT!!!
Hey Anon, I’m from Chicago too. Drop me an email at jk092183@aol.com if you wanna sarge sometime. My buddy is also startin up Chicagolair.com so were lookin for people in Chicago to join. PAIR sucks. Peace bro.
Tingly1 you are a fool.
Speaking as someone that had a severe business disagreement with Mystery (I’ve forgiven and pretty much forgotten, not sure if he has LOL) and was a member of his lounge back before he did workshops, I can tell you that you don’t even know how wrong you are.
Why do you have these limiting beliefs? Charles Manson had even more skill than Mystery I dare say. All he did was play mediocre music and talk. That’s it. He was short. Not good looking by most standards. And had women that would kill for him.
I am nearly 29. I drive a car that is almost 20 years old. Live in a one bedroom apartment. OK looking, some women think I am ‘cute’ but nothing special. I had a 3some just a couple weeks ago. Had sex with over 60 women in the past 3 years or so. Some of those lays are thanks in part to Mystery’s knowledge.
When I was in the lounge Mystery at one point was LIVING AT HOME. He was 29 or 30 at the time. Sounds like a loser, right? Wrong.
He had the pics to back up his talk… some quite explicit. HOT girls and no way in hell he could have afforded to pay them to have sex with him since he was broke as shit at the time. I never thought that he paid for them but some skeptics do. I think anyone that is skeptical about Mystery’s tactics is skeptical because they are scared to leave the fucking house and try them out.
Where was all his status and wealth and all that jazz back then? You come off as someone bitter because you can’t get laid. No offense.
I understand now that he is doing much better financially so good for him… it just adds to his overall status and makes him that much more attractive to women.
If anyone would want to down the guy it should be me, but I still respect him for all that he taught me – it has helped my life tremendously and I’ve not even attended a seminar or workshop. He is the smoothest fucker on the planet, and my opinion is based on his material that I have used in field. Style was ranked #1 or something on this site but who did he learn a lot of his stuff from?
Oh and Mystery please do a video on how to get strippers. The Ross one was awful and the Hypnotica one is at least as bad (sorry Hypnotica but telling guys to ‘spend money to have fun’ in a strip club contributes little to this art form – your video also had no original info on how to be the ‘stripper boyfriend’ – your Sphinx CD is awesome though).
JK
The video you saw was wrongly titled it should have been strip club etiquette 101. It was poorly titled in fact i will refund your money if you like. The one you saw just gave an insiders view on how the clubs really work and the mindsets behind the show. Poorly titled that is why i pulled it from selling it.
I will always offer a 100% refund on all my products.
Best,
Eric
Mystery better pray that Hypnotica doesn’t recite some of his poetry on these girls during the challenge.
Why not? If Mystery gets to use magic/runes Hypnotica should be able to do the same.
The Deer Doctor will smoke them all. The Deer Doctor will use his buck calling skills on the lassies and and they will cum like a giant-G spot on crack.
http://WWW.DEERDOCTOR.COM
Where Mystery stole his best ideas.
“Speaking as someone that had a severe business disagreement with Mystery (I’ve forgiven and pretty much forgotten, not sure if he has LOL) and was a member of his lounge back before he did workshops, I can tell you that you don’t even know how wrong you are.”
So you were in business with the guy.
“Why do you have these limiting beliefs?”
It’s not a limiting belief to point out that guys with height/looks, money, fame, and connections to guys like Neil Strauss will get laid easily.
“Charles Manson had even more skill than Mystery I dare say. All he did was play mediocre music and talk. That’s it. He was short. Not good looking by most standards. And had women that would kill for him.”
Not that many women, and most were skanks.
“I am nearly 29. I drive a car that is almost 20 years old. Live in a one bedroom apartment. OK looking, some women think I am ‘cute’ but nothing special. I had a 3some just a couple weeks ago. Had sex with over 60 women in the past 3 years or so. Some of those lays are thanks in part to Mystery’s knowledge.”
How would anyone know without a lay report and an explanation of what knowledge you think caused the lays? We can’t see the chicks, we don’t know what went down, but we’re supposed to accept your post as proof positive of anything? Okay.
“When I was in the lounge Mystery at one point was LIVING AT HOME. He was 29 or 30 at the time. Sounds like a loser, right? Wrong.”
When did Mystery EVER admit to this on any public boards? What happened to his “PUA Interviews Mystery” thread on FS? Someone asked him why his LTR doesn’t dump him for sarging at his workshops, but suddenly the link turns up another message. Maybe he can answer that here the way he did there.
“He had the pics to back up his talk… some quite explicit. HOT girls and no way in hell he could have afforded to pay them to have sex with him since he was broke as shit at the time. I never thought that he paid for them but some skeptics do. I think anyone that is skeptical about Mystery’s tactics is skeptical because they are scared to leave the fucking house and try them out.”
I’m skeptical that he’s getting the same quality women with money that he got without it. He claims two LTRs that are living with him, but who’s paying the rent? He seems to look down on the bar skanks that were probably most of his game when he was “broke.” He’s the one talking about health-wealth-relationships as a triangle.
On another note, are you saying that a guy with true game wouldn’t need money or even his own place?
“Where was all his status and wealth and all that jazz back then? You come off as someone bitter because you can’t get laid. No offense.”
Is that the game? Insult anyone who questions why an AFC should pay for Mystery’s joyride? Did you notice the chick instructors at his new workshops? Are they working for free or do they now have an economic interest in his reputation?
Even if what you say about Mystery is true, his “salad days” were years ago. The man he is NOW has money, fame, and connections that could get an ugly monkey laid.
“I understand now that he is doing much better financially so good for him…
it just adds to his overall status and makes him that much more attractive to women.”
Where is that money coming from? Those he teaches to be more attractive to women. AFCs are paying for his joyride and in the process, they are making him “more attractive to women.”
“If anyone would want to down the guy it should be me, but I still respect him for all that he taught me – it has helped my life tremendously and I’ve not even attended a seminar or workshop. He is the smoothest fucker on the planet, and my opinion is based on his material that I have used in field.”
Which material, or is this just a plug for his method and we have to spend a fortune to find out?
“Style was ranked #1 or something on this site but who did he learn a lot of his stuff from?”
Jenna Jameson? Marilyn Manson? Motley Crue? He has backstage access to all three. What guys like Style won’t tell you is that most of their confidence stems from the knowledge that a hottie will kick herself for rejecting him after learning of who he is.
“Oh and Mystery please do a video on how to get strippers. The Ross one was awful and the Hypnotica one is at least as bad (sorry Hypnotica but telling guys to ‘spend money to have fun’ in a strip club contributes little to this art form – your video also had no original info on how to be the ‘stripper boyfriend’ – your Sphinx CD is awesome though).”
Hypnotica manages a strip club. More money and status producing “game.”
Guys like Mystery are the result of people having a hardon for anyone they perceive as being financially successful or having social proof. Instead of looking at the role his money and status play in his game, they give him more money and status hoping it’ll rub off on them.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when Mystery reads the release version of Style’s book. Does he know what “undercover” means? Watch “Veronica Guerin” if you want an idea. Mystery’s been telling EVERYTHING to Style for what three years now? Best friend? Style’s been WORKING all this time and getting paid to infiltrate this “community.”
Style’s publisher, ReganBooks, already has an interesting title on the market:
http://www.harpercollins.com/global_scripts/product_catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=006078122X
“Hating Women: America’s Hostile Campaign Against The Fairer Sex.”
Care to guess what they’re doing to do to this community? Mystery calls Style his best friend, but Style’s being paid by the publishers of “Hating Women.”
Here’s a blurb from the book page:
“Boteach envisions a way to correct this downward spiral — which he sees as far more than just a feminist issue. Now is the time, he says, for men to start respecting women and for women to start respecting themselves. Women must band together and fight back for their rightful place of honor. For anyone who has ever wondered where our popular culture is taking us, Hating Women is at once an electrifying social commentary and a clarion call for change.”
All your post is, is a plug for Mystery. Did you reveal HOW you got these women? Nope. Just said “Mystery is the best” without providing anything to support your claim.
Mystery has game. There is no doubt about that. If he wanted he COULD get laid just by status and his financial situation. However, I don’t think he uses that to PU girls in his workshops. Plus, alot of people I know personally and alot of well known members of the community can vouch for him and use his method. Its a shame that anytime someone gets successful jealousy runs rampant and everyone starts turning on people that have helped out this community alot. On these boards especially, its like a soap opera. I give props to Mystery, DYD, Formhandle, TD, Hypnotica, and whoever elses stuff that I’ve read or heard and has helped me out. Lay off the bitchiness guys, jealousy is not cool.
“Mystery has game. There is no doubt about that. If he wanted he COULD get laid just by status and his financial situation. However, I don’t think he uses that to PU girls in his workshops. Plus, alot of people I know personally and alot of well known members of the community can vouch for him and use his method. Its a shame that anytime someone gets successful jealousy runs rampant and everyone starts turning on people that have helped out this community alot. On these boards especially, its like a soap opera. I give props to Mystery, DYD, Formhandle, TD, Hypnotica, and whoever elses stuff that I’ve read or heard and has helped me out. Lay off the bitchiness guys, jealousy is not cool.”
Mystery’s “game” when he was broke involved picking up hot-looking skanks from clubs and bars (or strip clubs), where a guy’s money and status mean very little. He still was 6’5″ and a trained magician, which by themselves still give him good game, and if he lived “at home” in Toronto, he was within shouting distance of a world-class nightlife. Not exactly rocket science there.
If you look at his love life NOW, however, he’s got two chicks living with him. Do they each pay 1/3 of the rent? Are they the same quality chicks he was settling for five years ago? Doubtful. Did he run club game to get them? Nope.
Does Mystery talk about the “triangle” of “health, wealth and relationships” to his students as part of overall “game?” Yep. Is he friends with a famous writer with connections out the wazoo? Yes again. Does he have fame himself? He calls himself the real-life Hitch.
The question “who the fuck are you kidding” isn’t bitterness, just obviousness. Just who IS he trying to kid?
The people you give “props” to all cross-promote each other, usually with money changing hands. Formhandle and Thundercat are DYD affiliates and get paid every time someone buys through one of their links. Mystery used to have an affiliate program and I see Thundy is offering discounts to his members who sign up. Is he getting paid for that?
Why do all the seduction “discussions” gravitate towards the half-dozen or dozen products with affiliate programs? Why are almost all the other products treated as if they don’t exist? You wouldn’t even know if people tried to discuss them on some of these boards because the posts can get wiped out and the users banned.
Gunwitch moderates the #pua channel, and he’s selling stuff. He can kick and ban users anytime he wants, and how would you know who he banned or why?
Why is it that in a place where we’re all supposed to “help each other out” we give endless “props” to the guys who are cashing in on information that used to be free and which is still free in other places?
Do NFL referees get paid by the home team? How credible would they be if they did? You have board after board, blog after blog, devoted to “discussions” and “reviews” of products that the “referee” has an interest in being sold, and an amazing absence of discussion concerning the competition.
Would Thundercat like to show how HELPFUL he wants to be to all of us and let me post a link of every seduction website I can find on the web? He does that I’ll be the first to give him PROPS.
Ball’s in his court now.
It’s hard for me to explain how I got them because it is internalized. The 3some went like this:
Met girl online, met her in real life for a drink, had 1 drink with her (I paid since she claimed to have lost her purse that day). She follows me home, we fuck.
2 days later she comes over, brings me smokes, orders our food and pays for it, fucks me twice. Earlier in the day a 21 year old emailed me from an online personals site, wanting to meet. I talk her into meeting both of us that night, she comes over, pleasure ensues.
It’s that simple.
Now as you can see I don’t have things like ‘I ran the rune reading double-whammy woot-hoot on her’ because I use very little in the way of routines. The value in Mystery’s material, IMO, is the WAY he conducts himself. You have to take the subtle things he does and says and internalize them. Quick comebacks and lines that he has come up with are the best.
It’s all free, just download his archives and try it. You don’t have to take a workshop (although I would think your game would explode if you learned from him directly).
Now your point about the Style book is interesting… I can’t wait to read that myself. Will he REALLY tell all about Mystery (some of it is NOT flattering to say the least) and betray his friend… or will he fuck over everyone that buys it and pull his punches? There really isn’t much in between. It’s been delayed until September now so that seems fishy.
JK
PS Oh your statement about Manson is stupid too… a lot of those girls came from good families, and were pretty damn hot. Check out old pics of Ruth Ann Moorehouse or Susan Atkins (she was a stripper).
Does anyone know why the release date for The Game by Neil Strauss has suddenly changed from May to September 2005?
RJ here,
Just back from teaching and haven’t been following things, but last I spoke with Neil, the book is being launched in August.
I think Neil genuinely likes Mystery and sees him as a friend so I don’t think you’ll find any back-stabs, but Neil also tends to show people, warts and all, so don’t expect a snow-job or white-wash either.
I’m also featured in the book and am eagerly awaiting its release.
“Met girl online, met her in real life for a drink,”
That seems to be the key hurdle, yet has the least explanation. We also don’t know if she’s a 6, an 8, what her personality is like, if she’s honest, etc.
___________
Ross,
I don’t know what Neil will put in his book, but I don’t think anyone in the community is going to get the scoop from him, since this is the subject of his writing and he’s getting paid by the publisher. He sure as hell won’t be warning anyone if someting negative is on the way.
The ultimate question is going to be what the publisher wants, and that’ll be the editor’s call, not Neil’s. Ever see those reality-show contestants complaining about how the editing makes them look?
Most AFCs react to the major media. This will more or less be the first community endorsement from one of society’s “programmers.” You can bet Neil will be doing a major publicity tour: GMA, Today, CBS This morning, Fox News (for sure), Tom Leykis (probably), and then there’s Regis and Kelly, The View, and possibly Oprah and Dr. Phil, along with a bunch of local media in every major city (where most nightclubs are).
The book should be about as influential as “He’s Just Not That Into You” or “The Rules,” or maybe a little more so because it’s going to direct the interested readers (millions) to the websites that explain everything in detail. That will bring the community above-ground at least in internet cafes, as the websites themselves will become known.
“I think Neil genuinely likes Mystery”
No shit, Neil is Style, Mystery and Style are best friends so no shit he’s going to do a good write up on him.
The write up on you? Well if Mystery says at the DYD Mastery seminar, “The problem with people starting with seduction is they are working with, Speed, and Seduction” Mystery doesn’t like you, so what do you think his BEST FRIEND is going to write up about you?
“”I think Neil genuinely likes Mystery”"
“No shit, Neil is Style, Mystery and Style are best friends so no shit he’s going to do a good write up on him.”
Brutus and Caesar were best friends as well once.
__________________________
“The write up on you? Well if Mystery says at the DYD Mastery seminar, “The problem with people starting with seduction is they are working with, Speed, and Seduction” Mystery doesn’t like you, so what do you think his BEST FRIEND is going to write up about you?”
If he spells the website correctly, he could call Ross anything he wants and still make Ross a lot richer than you.
The book says it’s UNDERCOVER, which would imply that its author infiltrated the community in order to tell the story to women and AFCs.
The real question is how much of the truth is the editor going to put out for the general public.
JK-
I don’t take offense to anything you or anyone else in the community says to me. Why? I don’t even know you, so what do I look like getting mad at you for YOUR *opinions?*
However, I will make a quick comment or two and then I’m out. Johnny is sharp as a fucking tack and on point. Not too much I can add to what he says.
Take away all of the current fame, money, and connections that Mystery has today, and what do you have left?
Right. A good-looking, nice-bodied, 6’5″ tall male who happens to be a world-class Magician (so he never really was BROKE when he was “coming up the ranks” of PUAdom).
Let’s see now…do most women find TALL men sexually desirable? YES.
Do women find world class professional ANYTHING that makes a little money and gets you on T.V…attractive? YES.
Do women like good-looking, well-built men? YES.
Did Mystery fit all three of these categories back in the day? YES.
Basically, that in and of itself got him laid. And who can’t fuck a bunch of skanks who ALREADY want to fuck you? Duh. But that was THEN this is NOW.
He’s a “guru” of seduction, been in ELLE magazine and other publications…basically semi-famous, STILL a world-class magician, PLENTY-MONEY, lives in a MANSION, tons of connections, AND has a best friend with tons of connections to the entertainment industry.
Who the fuck is he kidding?
Now, JK, you’re telling ME, hehehe, that with ALLLLL of that going for him…that it’s his GAME that’s pulling the chicks?
A retarded wet monkey could get laid with ALL of that going for him.
Come on man, you can’t be that damn blind. LOL. Stevie Wonder can see how this guy is getting laid…and GAME has nothing to do with it.
He can dress NORMAL and leave his wallet AT HOME, but he’s still MYSTERY. Brad Pitt can were a fucking pink thong and a tu-tu…but he’s still BRAD PITT.
Stop hanging off of Mystery’s nut sack for a second and THINK about this, no offense.
And when did it become the norm to bash anyone for having an opinion that goes against a guru or what everyone else thinks in this community?
That makes YOU foolish, dude.
Opinions are just that…OPINIONS. Ain’t that big of a deal.
Tingly
P.S. Again, who the fuck is he kidding?
Tingly, you’re a loser.
How many girls have you had so far this year? In the past 5 years?
Why must you make excuses for the success of others to make yourself look better?
Get a life.
JK
Well, I don’t know how many women Tingly has laid, but if we’re going to compare him to Mystery, let’s get him a writeup in Cosmo as being a super-player that women can’t tame and who teaches other guys to be like him (makes him a challenge), give him a website, a mention in a bestselling book that’s coming out, a few hundred large to spend, a nice apartment in vegas with two live-in pivots (he can have brothel privileges in a neighboring county to equalize the sex part), and send him out on the town with say David Copperfield. Let’s also give him a $10,000 clothing budget and six months off from work while we’re at it. Oh, and let’s send porn stars to the brothel to equalize those connections.
How would ANY man do in that situation? You don’t have to be as sharp as a Hittori Hanzo special to figure it out.
Interesting points, guys. Almost like a pua-pyramid sceme. Damn, I can’t trust anyone now!
I don’t see where the controversy is… read his archives, try out his stuff for yourself. You will see that it works.
It’s simple… unless you don’t get out of the house and try
I’ve been holding back commenting on this whole “Mystery: Fraud or For real?” thing. But having not seen the obvious stated yet, I’m inclined to be the one to state it.
Is Mystery real or a fake? Dunno, never met the guy, never saw him in action. Is he getting laid because of his height, money, magician skills? Who knows? BUT, whatever Mystery may or may not be doing to get laid, shouldn’t be the focus. The focus should be if he’s able to teach other guys how THEY could get laid. If he’s able to do that, then he’s an asset to the seduction community.
I couldn’t care less whether he can do what the hype and press about him says he can do or not do. All that matters to ME, is if the people who pay to attend his workshops feel they got what they paid for; Personal success.
If he can teach YOU how to increase your success with women, and you’re able to get that success, that’s the whole point of even being IN this business.
Michael
“Bishop”
http://www.new-alpha.com/fos.html