PUA Challenge Guidelines
April 21, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
Since it looks like Hypnotica’s PUA Challenge is going forward, I’d like to offer some guidelines for the challenge. Now, I’m not gonna referee this thing, nor should any of the participants feel they should abide by these guidelines. I just want to offer these ideas to make this PUA Challenge happen.
Guideline 1: Have multiple categories of judging
To help definite how exactly each contestant will be judged, there should be a couple different categories by which the PUA is judged. I recommend the following categories:
- Number of Phone Numbers Collects
- Number of Make-Out Sessions
- Number of Lays
- Number of Second Dates
One night stands or really fast fuck-closes can be hard to pull off. Most girls take a little bit of time to get into bed, so the PUA challenge shouldn’t be judged simply on how many girls you can bang. You should also take into account the number of phone numbers he got, the number of kisses/make-out sessions, and the number of day 2′s. This will help balance things out more, plus, real PUAs do all these things, so it’s important to judge them in all aspects of it.
Guideline 2: Proof Collection
The collection of numbers should be obvious, but only *real* numbers should count. Make-outs, Lays, and Day 2s should be backed up by eyewitness accounts or photographic evidence of some kind. I’m not suggesting you take pictures of the dirty deed, but maybe a photo of the girl laying in bed in the afterglow or something. These pictures won’t be for public viewing, but rather for the two contestants to see when it comes time to match up scores.
Guideline 3: Have a 2-stage challenge.
I think that guys in their own element will have an easier time picking up women than in a foreign environment, so the PUA challenge should have two stages. The first stage is the home field stage, where each participant has a certain amount of time (like say, a week, for example) in their home town to collect evidence of the various categories of pick-up. The second stage should be in neutral territory, such as Los Angeles or New York, for a shorter time period, like a weekend, where the two contestants go out and really compete head-to-head. This way, neither party has the advantage. Then, on the final day (or night), the two contestants can get together with a third party and review their results.
Those are my ideas. You guys have any you’d like to throw out there?
RandallDib on 
Gichardloown on 
RandallDib on 
DavidLop on 
ScottreN on 
Style’s book concerns alot of us inthe community. read Neal Strauss archives when he was new to the game. he used the name chris powels that time. he was a real dork but we all accepted him.
now, in his book he might portray all of us as dorks, geeks, women haters and have his excuse handy that he was here just to do a story.
neal will say he was infitrating these subculture. it was all for the story. he can say whatever he wants and never worry about being one of us because he was just an undercover reporter.
“Style’s book concerns alot of us in the community. read Neal Strauss archives when he was new to the game. he used the name chris powels that time. he was a real dork but we all accepted him. now, in his book he might portray all of us as dorks, geeks, women haters and have his excuse handy that he was here just to do a story. neal will say he was infitrating these subculture. it was all for the story. he can say whatever he wants and never worry about being one of us because he was just an undercover reporter.”
I’m sure that “Style” is the persona he created for the story, and that he actually lived it. That’s what writers do. I’m also sure that Neil Strauss has learned a lot from being “Style” and has a strong game all his own as a result.
We have a guy who took a Mystery seminar, befriended Mystery, winged with him, and wound up living with him. Now you’re getting into tell-all territory, as he’s seen Mystery up close along with many others from RSD and the rest of the community. You can be sure he’ll explain how the bootcamps, workshops, and seminars are run from the inside. He also is likely to know a lot more about long-term progress of the students by keeping in touch with them and seeing what isn’t posted here. The facts will determine that part of the story.
For the women and the AFCs, the book will say something like “hey, these guys really *are* getting laid, and here’s how they did it.” Most of his publicity will deal with public questions from the women who say it won’t work on them and that the guys are losers, or from the AFCs who refuse to believe it. I don’t see him pandering to these people because then you have no story to tell. More likely, he will try to reveal the truth in as blunt a way as he chooses.
If there are any dirty dealings in the community like what has been alleged, he may have knowledge of this and present it to everyone’s suprise, including the community itself. Incidents like Bishop’s arrest could be covered as well. We really don’t know what he’ll do or what the editors will do. I doubt Neil will have the last word on what goes into print.
In “Hating Women,” the same publisher has backed an author who said that it was time for men to respect women, but also time for women to respect themselves. That would indicate a Dr. Phil style book telling women “here’s how you get played” or “he’s not into you because you’re a UG.”
The other possibility is that they’ll keep delaying the release date.
JK-
Dude, you’re COMEDY!!
How would you know how many women I’ve fucked unless you’re watching me?
I didn’t know they let GAY dudes on this board…LLLLLLLLMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAOOOOO!! You need to leave! LOLOL.
And it has ALWAYS amazed me how much shit punks like you talk BEHIND a computer screen.
Saying shit like that TO MY FACE is a WHOOOOLE ‘nother story. Hehehe.
I can’t help BUT laugh!
Anyway, I’ll be in Cali in 3 weeks on business and a little pleasure. Maybe we can meet up and sarge together. There may be something I can learn from you and there may be something you can learn from me.
Maybe I’m missing the BIG picture. Convince me if you’re THAT sure.
Or maybe you’d like to take a swing at me.
Either way, we’re going to RESOLVE this problem.
Which way it goes is UP TO YOU.
LOL.
Tingly
johnny,
you didn’t understand right. neal didn’t infiltrate community. he came here to learn to get laid like everybody else who comes here. in the process, he saw the angle for a good story. don’t be tricked.
Once he decided to do a story, he was infiltrating, especially if he got paid any type of advance.
How many of your current or ex-g/fs would recognize the techniques that were used on them if they were pointed out in a book, or if a book pointed them to the websites that have the information? How many other guys would figure out that they lost the women to you this way? Would that be a problem for anyone?
Whatever Neil has to say, it’s sure taking a long time for him to say it.
Johnny = Ray Gordon, it seems to me
Community my ass.
Yes Johnny is Ray, how did he get back in?
will he destroy this site like he did that newsgroup?
not again
Yes I’m back but this is my first post. Let the foxes begin…again!
>Did he run club game to get them? Nope.
Students witnessed my getting my LTR in Chicago during a bootcamp. She was my first sarge of the night, day 1, something like 8 months ago. They also heard me talking to her on the phone the next day for 20 minutes running comfort material at the seminar. Witnesses to this in fact being a club pickup? Plenty.
Style witnessed my sarge of the other girl at a hookah lounge. He got her best friend.
‘Nuff said.
Its not money or fame but the CONVEYANCE of money and fame that we need to appreciate.
Why?
Look, we are all survival and replication machines. We attempt to align with those who improve our chances of S&R. that is why we have friends. and in order to convey enough S&R value for a woman so that she will endevour to align with us and give us ACCESS (access to pussy) in an affort to align with us and get access to our S&R value (protection, direction, replication, being taken care of by someone), its not what we HAVE but what we CONVEY we have.
Look, when you and I enter a cold room, its JUST THAT … COMPLETELY COLD. they dont know I have money. They dont know I have fame. They dont know ANYTHING about me … and its the same for you. So what do both you and I have to do in an effort to project that we are of value for a woman (so she will be attracted to us)?
We each have only what we bring with us into the club. You have 5 sets and I have 5 sets. And what we bring with us into the venue is limited to small props (lock-in props, flash cash, photo routine and other similar props (like 8×10 glossy, magazine you were in)), clothing, personality conveying routines (what we say), and social circle (who we are seen with) all help to convey our S&R value to our 5 targets. You and I still have to work the room because nobody knows us.
So the disgruntled PUA (Ill tell you about Dreamweaver and Sugar Ray (Mark McGrath) in a moment) hasnt put his PUA performance together and thinks its just about putting him in front of a target right away and ‘game’ her with “buying temperature” silliness. Then a guy who thought it through comes along and you get pissed that his game is so polished you cant fucking compete.
So the polished PUA goes into a cold set of 2 girls FIRST so he can build social proof for the rest of the evening. He looks like some sort of rockstar or something. the stereotype alone assumes he’s already pre-selected by women. and they want to know who this guy is seeing as he has two women draped off his arms (more female pre-selection). He gets his cheek kissed so he now has a ‘silent story’ to tell. He walks around with the girls and now all the guys and the other girls in the room know he’s the most interesting person in the house and coming preselected, is to be respected. every set opens. not only that, but if any celebs are in the room, when they meet, they meet as equals and not as fan and celeb. and the stories are jam packed with HIGH S&R VALUE spikes all in line with his selected identity. and then he hears the disgruntled PUA who didnt do it right (wrong method perhaps?) bawk and he cant help but think “ya just didnt want it bad enough to build REAL S&R value for women” but consoles himself with a lifestyle that gets envied (and then poo poo’d with “its because of your fame and fortune” — thats cheating). You dont need to be rich. You just need to prove you dont have to mooch off HER (and flash cash, discretely revealed, helps out nicely).
Mark McGrath is in many ways just one of us. He was in the audience for Andrew Dice Clay at the comedy store and Dreamweaver and I were there to enjoy the show too. Well, there was a 10 with her BF sitting in front of Mark. Dream and I are trying to think how to work the logistics when she gets up and goes to the washroom. But its seconds before the show and she’ll just walk straight back to her BF anyways. When she comes back she walks by Mark and the acts all school girly and kneels beside him all beta and DDB eyed and give her number to him inside two 1.5 minutes. And then she sits back down with her BF. this REALLY happened … and Dreamweaver got all pissed. “Fuckin’ guy didnt have to do ANYTHING!” he cried. I thought for a moment and corrected Dream: “Mark is one of us. he worked his ASS off to get that situation to happen. Just like we warm a set before approaching by having them see us as the social center in an adjacent set, he had to work his ass off and put together a live show, get good at it, produce music and videos, all to PROVE he is the identity he SAYS he is.” This is how the game is played when you want 10s to come up to YOU. Its takes MORE commitment. Dont think David Copperfield is LUCKY and doesnt need game to get supermodels. His identity IS his game and his game took serious dedication to master. And that is how its DONE!
In conveying one’s identity, you must endevour to systematically convey it – you need the proof. And you can spent many years building the proof. I have developed PROOF that I have S&R value for a woman with a HIGH S&R value for me (and other men).
Dont think you’ll get a fuckin’ supermodel if you DONT HAVE THE GOODS. And if you dont have the goods, DEVELOP THEM. And if you dont have an identity that attracts women nor you know how to convey that identity within your game, take my bootcamp and lets solve it. I focus on identity on day 3 of the seminar. You dont have to be a magician to use MM. Every student is his own person with his own unique identity.
Whats better, being a bad rockstar or a great accountant?
Love !Mystery
Mystery, that was beautifully written, I hope you smoke Speed Seduction in this challenge and prove once and for all you can’t get HB10′s using Speed Seduction which is so outdated it’s not even funny anymore. Show the community your method is the fucking shit.
“Style witnessed my sarge of the other girl at a hookah lounge. He got her best friend.”
Two wealthy guys with fame get laid. Big news.
“Look, we are all survival and replication machines. We attempt to align with those who improve our chances of S&R. that is why we have friends. and in order to convey enough S&R value for a woman so that she will endevour to align with us and give us ACCESS (access to pussy) in an affort to align with us and get access to our S&R value (protection, direction, replication, being taken care of by someone), its not what we HAVE but what we CONVEY we have.”
Chickgs dig guys with money. Big news.
You think it’s your PERSONALITY they want? Who the fuck are you trying to kid? They want RESOURCES and kiss up to the guy they think has them. Women like that are bought, not seduced. Game is about not having that shit and getting the same women.
“In conveying one’s identity, you must endevour to systematically convey it – you need the proof. And you can spent many years building the proof. I have developed PROOF that I have S&R value for a woman with a HIGH S&R value for me (and other men).”
So golddiggers love your identity, and AFCs love to give you money to impress them with and teach them how to impress other women with their money. Nice niche, and a great excuse for the failure of any student to purchase or to perform.
Rich men have the easiest game to fix, and most men who can pay $1,500 or whatever for a bootcamp have a lot going on to begin with.
You’re turning into the boss who thinks he’s funny because everyone laughs at his jokes. The only joke is the 180 you pulled the second you started making big bucks.
AFCs are paying for your joyride and most would get the same results you get, given the same finances and the same connections.
Mystery-
If you’re reading this, I’d like to say I want to give you your PROPS for this post. Best I’ve read EVER. Period. That was some REAL shit in this post…in fact some of the REALEST I’ve heard since I’ve been in this community.
Based on my knowledge of the game, all I can say is your shit was ON POINT, dude, and that THAT is *really* how the game is played.
It’s something a cousin and I talk about years ago: You don’t have to have money, fame/status etc to get pussy…you just have to LOOK like you have it. *WINK*
You ain’t pulling Tyra Banks or Cameron Diaz level chicks just being the average joe blow who walked into the club and just walked up to a chick and gamed her. Ain’t gonna happen. I KNOW this from all the times I’ve FAILED at trying to game chicks this way in a club. But when I chatted with other women in the club (in FRONT of my targets) it made it virtually EFFORTLESS to get those targets to open…and to lay them.
I was waiting for someone to come around and bring it back to the REAL shit. Never thought it’d be YOU.
Oddly, enough, I started out not liking you much, but this post cleared a lot of stuff up and, thus, has earned my respect for you as a person and as a seducer. I still hate it when you get overly technical about stuff with big words…lol, but you didn’t do that in this post. You just kept it REAL. You’re cool with me regardless. I’ll be in Cali in about 3 weeks or so…maybe we’ll be fortunate enough to cross paths with one another. I look forward to the possibility.
I don’t give a fuck what anyone else has to say at this point. I’m telling you how I personally feel. See, you didn’t even incorporate any EGO. You just told it like it is.
Ya see, I have a descent amount of experience in the game too (not as much as you, but…), so I couldn’t help but grin from ear to ear from the first sentence of that post to the end. Why? My experience has shown me that (virtually) EVERYTHING you said is TRUE.
****
TO SUM IT ALL UP
It’s about building (social) status. If I walk into a room with a hot woman and you walk into a room BY YOURSELF…I have the advantage over you SIMPLY because I have something that says I’m sexually desirable by women: A hot woman.
Women are competative by nature. Usually they don’t want you UNTIL they see you with another chick to some capacity…whether it be simply chatting with a hot waitress or with a few other sets.
If I have 500 dollars of “flash money” (and it could be my last 500 dollars…lol) and you don’t, I have the advantage: Women see me as the “guy with mucho money-o” and think they can align themselves with me to get it. Makes it easier to get the panties off of a 10…in fact the panties ain’t commin’ off UNLESS you’re a guy with this kind of STATUS (or ILLUSION of it).
All and all, in the end this is about success with women. Anything from a ONS to wife….whatever you choose. It’s our job as men to put ourselves in the BEST possible position to have success with women.
I’m coining the phrase “Sexual Desirability Points” or SDP for short. The more SDP you build, the more likely you are to get laid by the women you want (i.e. THE HOT chicks, Supermodels, Stripper types etc).
So you CAN be somewhat ugly, fat, balding, etc…without being SUPER DUPER ALPHA etc…and still get mucho pussy without much work. Why? You’ve got enough Sexual Desirability Points to do it/you’ve built a strong “identity” as Mystery puts it. Your identity, in fact, becomes your game.
HOW YOU EARN POINTS?
In general: Looks, great body, imaculate style of dress, flash money, social intelligence (knowing HOW to interact with women), pawns, pivots.
Stuff like that. For instance, if I laid a girl and made her see her dead grandma because the dick was so good (LOL) and then she went back to tell ALL (100) of her friends…then I’ve earned SDPs in THAT respect.
If I discretely flash a little money in front of a woman, and now she wants me because she thinks she can get some (I’ve done this to many times NOT to know it works) then I earn SDPs. If she tells her friends, I’ve got money and they want me etc….I earn points.
Am I making sense?
Anyway, I got so excited about the post that I started rambling. My bad…LOL.
Point and case: Good job, Mystery. I dig your style man. I really do.
Keep up the good work.
Tingly
The ONLY reason Mystery!! gets pussy is becaue he is EXTREMELY HANDSOME. That’s it! If I was a girl or a homo I’d eat his long magical cock.
“Based on my knowledge of the game, all I can say is your shit was ON POINT, dude, and that THAT is *really* how the game is played.”
We need gurus to teach us the obvious?
“It’s about building (social) status. If I walk into a room with a hot woman and you walk into a room BY YOURSELF…I have the advantage over you SIMPLY because I have something that says I’m sexually desirable by women: A hot woman.”
That works until someone tips her off to wingwomen.com or a site that explains pivots.
“I’m coining the phrase “Sexual Desirability Points” or SDP for short. The more SDP you build, the more likely you are to get laid by the women you want (i.e. THE HOT chicks, Supermodels, Stripper types etc).”
Others have already done that over the last fifteen years. If you didn’t hear much of it around these parts, that’s becuase it was thought to be AFC to try to “seduce” women this way. To suddenly turn around and present it as new theory would be inaccurate.
Making the notion additionally suspect is the guy who not only uses money to impress women, but who gets the money for teaching others how to impress women. Now you’re dealing with a guy who’s no different than one who gets rich selling how-to-get-rich books. Yes, he’s rich, but his own students are propping him up, or as I said, paying for his joyride.
All men wanting to hire a prostitute will find one, but that doesn’t mean all women are prostitutes. Money and status are just the easiest ways to ensure a lay, but they are far from the only way to play the game, and they are without a doubt the most AFC.
As for making her think you’re wealthy versus being wealthy, a chick-with-a-dick is going to make you think she’s hot as opposed to her actually being hot, or even being a her. Faking it is very difficult to sustain.
Johnny I think you should share your method of getting laid, you put down Mystery and all the other guru’s systems. So, obviously, they haven’t worked for you. So, what do you do? I mean, you do get laid, right?
>You think it’s your PERSONALITY they want? Who the fuck are you trying to kid? They want RESOURCES and kiss up to the guy they think has them.
why does my GF, who dated a multi millionaire for 10 yrs, choose to be with me? I cant buy her a car (like he did). sorry but it just doesnt jive with my reality.
>Women like that are bought, not seduced.
what ever happened to conveying such a high value and you play hard to get so that she accepts the challenge of trying to seduce YOU. That is THE BEST route through LMR.
>Game is about not having that shit and getting the same women.
Dude, I can do it in jeans and a t shirt. hell, during bootcamps lately ive been playing the role of Erik and not !Mystery with his peacock gear. Ive proven it time and again that it is not my magic (known by my not doing any)but I prefer using EVERYTHING I have to win in the game. Its not cheating to allow those you befriended last month to help you succeed this month.
So what if I meet a very interesting guy who may be a celeb and provide I value for him. Is it now cheating to be seen with him? Shouldn’t a celeb be seen with his photographer, manager, agent, 2 hotties, assistant, bodyguard? If I talk my close PUA friends to choose a role so we can all role in style is that cheating? Notice how being any of those roles for Mystery gives you a very high value.
If I bring a wad of flash cash (its just a prop, i wont spend a cent) and you didnt bother doing it, would I be cheating?
If I have solidified a strong attractive identity for myself and come up with some compelling pieces of proof and evidence that I am who I say I am, it’s not cheating is it?
In conclusion, you seem pissed that you dont possess these things you point out are the reason you say I get girls. Well what if I told you I deal with this in my seminar. How to build and convey a strong attractive identity. Im sure we can solve these things quickily in your game. You need to choose an identity who’s stereotype assumes you get laid. then you need to come up wi9th specific ways (routines) that introduce your identity into the set. Story telling, photo routine, props, clothing all help prove you are who you say you are.
Not directing this to you specifically, but if you are a programmer, odds are you selected your identity BEFORE YOU EVER GOT LAID. We now have additional goals and some of these are sexual goals. Youll need to reinvent yourself just like i did.
Love!Mystery
Mys, really like your last 2 posts, maybe you should post it on ASF too. The funny thing is that anyone who gets a big AHA from them possibly never really understood your material in the first place.
We don’t actually have a formal defnition for “game”. But most of us probably think of it as
“Getting females consistently attracted to us using our personality conveyance”. Or “getting females to consistently fall in love with us using anything avaliable to the common man” Or something along those lines
Its really weird how we have arguments like ” What really attracts women is this, this and this” Or “you are making it too complicated. You only need to have the correct mindset and be alpha” or something along those lines.
What many people don’t understand is that this subject can get as complicated as any other topic in this world. What we have now are behaviours which we know are GENERALLY attractive to women. Body language that is GENERALLY attractive to women.And Voice tone, verbal tactics, personality etc
And this is what we improve on in this community. We are like researchers finding out by trial and error what is it that is attractive to women in general. We find out what works and then we report it and teach it to others. ( Simple ain’t it?)
Its Psychology. You are making her mind think in ways that you choose. You are making her feel the emotions that you want her to feel. If you can do this with accuracy on every single person you meet in the world, well then i guess you will become some kind of god. ( But i sleep better at night knowing that i haven’t heard of anyone like that yet.)
Which is why we can’t get every single woman we see to fall in love with us. Most of us do not have GAME evolved enough to accomplish something of that magnitude.
It’s not just social status Tingly. Will social status improve you PU successs? Sure it will. Will a handsome face improve your PU success? Sure it will.
Because we already know that THESE THINGS are among the things attractive to women in GENERAL.
Of course you can get Tyra Banks or any celebrity to fall in love with you by just being around her and talking to her. You just don’t know how.
Is there a person in this his world who can get ANYONE to sleep with him. It’s possible isn’t it? Think about it, there might be a guy out there so damn GOOD that he can turn you GAY. Hey who knows.
We have some pretty cool acronyms out there. Whether its called DHV’ing or Mystery’s new term i do think those are pretty useful terms to get guys to understand certain things.
Justin Timberlake has maybe 40 5 minute DHV’s in the form of music videos that may not only impress a particular girl but it may even impress me. You may have a great DHV in the form of a ferrari, and another one in a great personality conveying routine. Your haircut might be another one.
Notice i use the words may and might. Cause it may and might. But it might not to certain people. That’s we have to know what are things that GENERALLY DHV’s to other people. Or what generally demonstrates a high S&R value.
We don’t know what specifically would affect a particular person. But with knowledge and experience we do know what most of our targets (HB’s possibly) would find exteremly attractive and impressive.
It’s possible that in this community(If it exists) 100 years from now, we will have teaching methods so good and concepts so great that the best among us may be ruling a few countries. ( haha ok now even i want to laugh.)
You must understand what it is that you are ultimately trying to learn here. Influence in it’s ultimate form.
Another thing is. When you are out PU’ing chicks you will use everything you have that is easily available to you to help you in your endeavor.
If you criticize my skill all because i drive my Masserati around, i’m not going to start leaving my car at home so that i can convince myself that its my personality that the girls like and not my car.
Sure you can go test yourself if you are out practising wearing stinky ass beggar’s clothes but if you are actually out for a RESULT you would probably be the best that you can be.
You may handicap yourself if you are trying to show students examples as workshop instructors may do every so often.
But if you want to wear your pyjamas out everyday to PU women then i congratulate your “beautiful mind”.
But to crticize people that you don’t know personally and implying that you cannot teach others a skill effectively if you have advantages in achieving results is just unfair.
ALl because i’m 8 foot 5 and i teach others to play basketball does not mean you have to post about how sure you are that my students are not learning good technique as i obviously have an obvious advantage that they don’t. and if you did that probably would be discrimination in some form.
The reason Erik Von Mystery can get girls EVEN in a T-shirt and Jeans is because he is model GQ handsome. That’s it! There’s no Mystery to Mystery. He is EXTREMELY HANDSOME and has a huge wanger. Nuff said.
Johnny and Intime-
Both of you made some valid points. Intime, let me say that if I gave the impression that getting laid is ALL about status, let me clear that up by saying it’s NOT. My bad if I did.
Obviously, status can give you an edge in getttin laid, but it’s not the ONLY thing that can get you laid. Solid game and the right “inner confidence” (I hate the term “inner game” YUCK! LOL) then you can be successful with women.
Johnny, my comments to your post are dispersed below.
****************************
“Based on my knowledge of the game, all I can say is your shit was ON POINT, dude, and that THAT is *really* how the game is played.”
We need gurus to teach us the obvious?
TINGLY: I’m not a guru. And sometimes you’d be surprised at how many of us men MISS *the obvious.” Or where you talking about (to) Mystery?
–
“It’s about building (social) status. If I walk into a room with a hot woman and you walk into a room BY YOURSELF…I have the advantage over you SIMPLY because I have something that says I’m sexually desirable by women: A hot woman.”
That works until someone tips her off to wingwomen.com or a site that explains pivots.
TINGLY: Wrong. I was using women to pull other women LOOOONG before I new this community even existed. No matter how many times I do it, I always seem to get more women to look at me WHEN I ALREADY HAVE ONE (a female friend or GF), then when I’m single or by myself at a venue. Why do you think married men get so much pussy thrown at them? Same for men whom are always seen with beautiful women everywhere they go? This dynamic was in play LONG before this community existed. It’s AT LEAST as old as man.
–
“I’m coining the phrase “Sexual Desirability Points” or SDP for short. The more SDP you build, the more likely you are to get laid by the women you want (i.e. THE HOT chicks, Supermodels, Stripper types etc).”
Others have already done that over the last fifteen years. If you didn’t hear much of it around these parts, that’s becuase it was thought to be AFC to try to “seduce” women this way. To suddenly turn around and present it as new theory would be inaccurate.
TINGLY: You’re right. But I wasn’t presenting it as a *NEW* THEORY. I’m presenting an *OLD* THEORY as a new *term.* Just another way of looking at building status, in other words.
If you were a boxer, would it be cheating (AFC) to use your advantages of height and strenth to beat your opponent? No. You’re simply using WHAT YOU HAVE at your disposal to give you a better chance at WINNING. (More this at the END of this post).
–
Making the notion additionally suspect is the guy who not only uses money to impress women, but who gets the money for teaching others how to impress women. Now you’re dealing with a guy who’s no different than one who gets rich selling how-to-get-rich books. Yes, he’s rich, but his own students are propping him up, or as I said, paying for his joyride.
TINGLY: I won’t touch that one. That’s between you and Mystery.
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All men wanting to hire a prostitute will find one, but that doesn’t mean all women are prostitutes. Money and status are just the easiest ways to ensure a lay, but they are far from the only way to play the game, and they are without a doubt the most AFC.
TINGLY: Obviously. But you can’t hate on a guy who’s getting laid because he has stuff you DON’T, like height and money. They difference between YOU and THE OTHER guy is that YOU have to work harder to get laid than he does. (More at the END of this post). Big deal. Doesn’t make him AFC, just means he’s got MORE “easy way out” advantages than you do.
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As for making her think you’re wealthy versus being wealthy, a chick-with-a-dick is going to make you think she’s hot as opposed to her actually being hot, or even being a her. Faking it is very difficult to sustain.
TINGLY: Good point, but let’s stay ON POINT. For me, at least, this isn’t about “substaining” anything. I don’t have to HAVE money to get women, I just have to ACT like I have it. I don’t have to SPEND money to get or keep women…just get them to THINK they’ll get some of it and a piece of my status.
Bottom line, all I have to do is keep it up long enough to get laid…which won’t take long when you’re flashing money…lol. After I hit, a woman’s like “So, my lights are going to get turned off” or “I need money to get my hair done”…etc.” but that doesn’t mean I have to pay her SHIT. And I don’t. I just simply reply, “Hold up. I don’t pay for pussy. And you were paying your bills some kind of way LONG BEFORE you met ME, so I suggest you stick with that.”
I don’t have to “play” her. SHE played HERSELF.
True story….
I once worked at a hospital with this solid 9 serving food for patients. I’d speak to her everyday, and she’d speak back, but was NEVER too enthused as I’m no supermodel, if you dig what I’m saying. PERIOD.
She was VERY pretty and everyday I’d joke with her by asking her for a hug and to bat her eyes at me. She’d look at me with this “boy, please” look whenever I did it and she NEVER gave me the hug or batted her eyes.
One day, all of the kitchen crew were in the office at the end of the shift, just shooting the shit. And I had witdrawn my last $700 out of my ATM earlier that day. Well, to make a long story short, we were talking about money and I pulled out that $700 dollars in front of EVERYONE as a joke (and an experiment). Do ya know what happened? That SAME 9 who didn’t give me the time day said, “Money talks and bullshit walks!” For the next two weeks, that chick would bat her eyes for me and hug me ON COMMMAND. And ALWAYS spoke to me FIRST like a long lost friend. She was even really “girly” acting.
And back then I was the most AFC guy you’d ever NOT want to meet. I didn’t know how to “play the game” back then so, I couldn’t fuck her WITHOUT paying the money she BLUNTLY said I’d have to pay ($400…SHIIIIT!! LOL) to fuck her. So…I NEVER FUCKED HER. Even back THEN, I wasn’t paying $400 for some damn pussy!! You know how many crack-head blow jobs I could get for that much? LOLOLLOL.
Moral to the story? I didn’t REALLY have money. I flashed my WHOLE life’s savings in her face and made her THINK she was gonna get some. When I did that, I got what I wanted to an extent. Knowing what I know NOW…I could have played the game right and fucked her (for FREE of course)…and probably had HER paying ME…LITERALLY. She still hugs me and bats her eyes for me TO THIS day…WITHOUT me having to flash a dime.
Status is not cheating. It’s using a fair ADVANTAGE to help you get what you want. Playing by the rules of nature (provider role) and society (guys with money are SEXY/high status/lover) at the same time.
The end.
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Finally, in reference to a point I made earlier in the post (that I said I’d cover more here)…For ME, this is about WINNING (getting laid). I want some pussy at the end of the day. Don’t really care if it was my “game” or my “advantages” that got it. I want to get LAID.
Remember: I’m not a body-builder, but have an ok body. And I’m very average-looking or UGLY depending on how CONCEITED (and beautiful) the chick is.
Listen, if you’ve EVER been in sales, then you KNOW how hard it is for those FIRST couple of years hustling to make that money and build clientele because you’re basically doing it ALL by yourself on foot…one client at a time.
You don’t want to do that forever do you?
HELL NO!! EVENTUALLY, you will have built SO MUCH CLIENTELE, that business COMES TO YOU on *referral* due to *word of mouth advertising.* It’s gets to a point where you don’t have to “work hard” again…because everyone else is doing the work FOR YOU. Ya think AT&T has to BEG anyone for business? Hell no. They are AT&T. Period.
Same thing applies to women. Yeah, if you’re fat, ugly, bald, broke, unpopular etc…you’ll have to put in A LOT of “footwork” AT THE BEGINNING, but you’re going to get better with each sale. EVENTUALLY, you’ll have SO MANY women talking good about you (referrals and word of mouth), that you NO LONGER have to “work hard” to get pussy. It will COME or “CUM” TO YOU…LOL.
And in reaching that goal, that doesn’t mean a guy doesn’t have game. It just means that he has MASTERED his game to such an extent that it’s working for him whether he’s out in the field “hustling” or NOT.
“Residual Booty” is another term I’m coining…LOL.
THAT is what I’m working for. Don’t know about you.
Tingly
The People’s Champ of Seduction
Johnny-
I like some of your arguments, don’t get me wrong, but I’d like to hear how YOU pick up chicks. What do you feel it’s all about?
Since you think Mystery is a fraud (it’s not really my place to say whether he is or isn’t) then you must know something about pulling chicks that he doesn’t.
So, I say, tell the community what you know so that we may learn from your wisdom.
We can bash any guy here ALL day long about what he DOESN’T know…but to do so implies that YOU know something he doesn’t.
So what’s the deal? How do you pull chicks?
Tell us.
Tingly
“Why does my GF, who dated a multi millionaire for 10 yrs, choose to be with me? I cant buy her a car (like he did). sorry but it just doesnt jive with my reality.”
I thought your girlfriend was 19 from chicago. Got a new one now? Are you saying now you don’t earn enough to buy her a car? Saw a recent post from you where you seemed to indicate you were doing better than that. Perhaps I was mistaken.
If the new g/f is looking for connections in LA or Vegas, she might find fame more appealing than money.
>>Women like that are bought, not seduced.>>
“what ever happened to conveying such a high value and you play hard to get so that she accepts the challenge of trying to seduce YOU. That is THE BEST route through LMR.”
This is a far cry from the 3-second rule, approaching, and all the other stuff I’ve been hearing for years. If this is what you do now, you’ve changed, and you’re also not the first to advocate doing this.
>>Game is about not having that shit and getting the same women.>>
“Dude, I can do it in jeans and a t shirt.”
If you’re looking for more than an ONS, your lifestyle will still matter in the long run, and the confidence you get from your lifestyle will offset the poor dress.
“hell, during bootcamps lately ive been playing the role of Erik and not !Mystery with his peacock gear. Ive proven it time and again that it is not my magic (known by my not doing any)but I prefer using EVERYTHING I have to win in the game. Its not cheating to allow those you befriended last month to help you succeed this month.”
It’s also not an earth-shattering innovation to use what you got to get what you want.
“So what if I meet a very interesting guy who may be a celeb and provide I value for him. Is it now cheating to be seen with him?”
It’s not game.
“Shouldn’t a celeb be seen with his photographer, manager, agent, 2 hotties, assistant, bodyguard? If I talk my close PUA friends to choose a role so we can all role in style is that cheating? Notice how being any of those roles for Mystery gives you a very high value.”
It’s not cheating, but it’s deception, and guys have been using that for ages.
“If I bring a wad of flash cash (its just a prop, i wont spend a cent) and you didnt bother doing it, would I be cheating?”
If I didn’t bother doing it it’s because I don’t want a golddigger.
“If I have solidified a strong attractive identity for myself and come up with some compelling pieces of proof and evidence that I am who I say I am, it’s not cheating is it?”
It’s a statement from you that an “attractive identity” (read: looks, money, status, etc.) seems to trump the “gaming.”
Now you are getting into territory that is not game, but general self-help if you are teaching it.
“In conclusion, you seem pissed that you dont possess these things you point out are the reason you say I get girls.”
Sounds like you’re the one who’s pissed. You talk about using survival resources to get women, you’re going to be used by golddiggers. You want to go that route, be my guest, but don’t try to kid anyone into thinking it’s game when it’s you just conveying to a woman that you’ll provide for her.
What seems to have happened is that the club skanks are what guys without money can get, and once you started making money you got the VIP-lounge types who check for wealth, and are now trying to fuse the two as if one has nothing to do with the other when clearly it does.
“Well what if I told you I deal with this in my seminar. How to build and convey a strong attractive identity.”
You are teaching your students that money, fame, and looks get a guy laid. Nothing earth-shattering there.
“Im sure we can solve these things quickily in your game. You need to choose an identity who’s stereotype assumes you get laid. then you need to come up wi9th specific ways (routines) that introduce your identity into the set. Story telling, photo routine, props, clothing all help prove you are who you say you are.”
Before you were talking about “survival and reproductive resources.” That’s a provider identity. A very attractive personality to golddiggers.
“Not directing this to you specifically, but if you are a programmer, odds are you selected your identity BEFORE YOU EVER GOT LAID. We now have additional goals and some of these are sexual goals. Youll need to reinvent yourself just like i did.”
Thanks for the unsolicited advice!!
AFCs give you the money that women (golddiggers) find so impressive. You seem to believe them when they tell you they aren’t into your money the way you expect a hottie to believe you when you tell her you aren’t into her looks. She wants to believe that, and you seem to want to believe it when it’s applied to your strong suit as well.
If you had real game you wouldn’t be talking about using wealth to get laid. There are plenty of names that apply to women who respond to wealth. If you want to live out the fantasy that it’s not your money, do it, but don’t expect everyone to buy into it.
Three guys at $1,500 a pop for bootcamps even every OTHER week is still a six-figure income for socializing. Throw in the status you get as an expert on women, and the connections to the rock stars and porn stars through Style, and god knows how much potential income after his book comes out, and it’s obvious, even if it hurts to think of women you thought wanted you for you that way.
Get the fuck over it.
It’s ONLY Mystery’s GQ handsome looks that get him laid plus his background of approaching strangers for Magic adds to the ease that his GOOD GENES give him…Lucky GQ Guy
TheUgliest, I used to think the same thing until I showed some video of Mystery to a close lady friend. She was less than flattering about him. So I showed other footage to other friends and I was surprised to hear similar comments.
One girl was irritated by his nasily-twang voice, another said some about his “80s Fabio gone wrong” long hair, and many of them thought his magic thing was a wank. Only one friend said he was “sorta cute”.
Sure it’s only a small sample and looks are subjective, but if Mystery is getting it, it aint his looks alone that are doing it for him with the ladies.
Hey Johnny.
Lots of criticism. But no point. And no advice.
U are right Johnny, amazingly cool guy you are. Now you can let go of the anger in your heart.
Mystery obviously has little game. That is why you are here on websites like these…….. because all the great advice comes from people like. THE GREAT BRAD PITT. Who is the obvious person with game, who is ugly, poor, and nobody knows him, and yet he can get any girl attracted to him.
Actual game is not what Mystery has, its what Johnny has. that is why all the mindsets and techniques that actually work in this community mostly came from Johnny the MAN.
And think of all of Johnny’s ex students who are also great PUAS, like Tom, Dick , Harry, and not to mention the Great Brad Pitt.
Why, why is your next post criticizing me and making fun of me when i am obviously on your side. WHy refer to me at all? Don’t qualify. You don’t need to to.
But you just have the urge don’t you? Your fingers are just itching and you can’t control yourself and you just want to have a great comeback. This is exactly why people made fun of you in school and you never had a better thing to say than them.
Hey guys, you can tell how cool he is just by his next post. Watch for it.
Let’s watch for Johnny’s next post and we will see how deep the high school trauma was.
All you Mystery haters are on drugs. This guy has laid penthouse pets, playmates, and SI Swimsuit models. I’ve even seen him pick up a supermodel.
Sorry, there are many guys as good lookings as Mystery in Hollywood. Most can’t pick up SUPERMODELS.
MYSTERY IS THE BEST!!!
Johnny,
You’re a flamer with an agenda.
You aren’t elvis preston king… trying to sell some more suckers on an asian sex tour… are you?! lol
fuckJohnny
All you Mystery asskissers are either Mystery himself or liars. This is just normal marketing ploy. And not even that clever. But to AFC’s…
And alot of women do not think Brad Pitt is so hot. This is Media Hype. I personally know many women that would not go near Pitt cause he ain’t their type (if he was just a normal guy and not a meganaire)and he doesn’t do a thing for them.
And dudes don’t get fooled by those last few assfrenching posts above cause as stated they are either paid shills, Mystery Erik himself or someone whose sucked his turdhole. Do you really want to make him a millionaire? For what? A sucker is born every second, especially desparate guys! Be men; not pussys!!
Guys, do you not get it? JOHNNY IS GORDON ROY PARKER, aka Ray Parker, aka GRPIE, a newsloon and troll extraordinaire. He writes like Parker, has the same expressions, same diahrrea of the keyboard, etc./ etc. etc.
STOP….FEEDING….THE…..TROLL…RAY GORDON.
Ray is a lunatic. Ray made posts after 9-11 praising the act, saying that no one was killed but “office whores” and people who had discriminated against hiring him.
Ray stalks women on line. Ray has been obsessed with teenage gymnasts, fantasizing that they love him.
STOP THIS! Ignore Ray and he will shrivel.
And Ross, STOP kissing Mystery’s tushy for social proof!!! Are you that desparate? Since most other PUA’s dis you, you need at least one “other” PUA, not affiliated to you, to keep you afloat. Yet Mystery is leaving you in the dust success-wise, women-wise and money-wise; so be Wise and clean that nose of yours. You’re still the granddad of us all!!!
And no this ain’t no Ray nor Johnny just a guy sick of seeing desparate guys making slick dudes millionaires with empty hype; with a few truths thrown in. Typical marketing ploys…
Not kissing anyone’s ass. I don’t agree with his entire system and think much of it, even most of it, is unnnecessary outside of a club environment where you are gunning for the hottest woman surrounded by her hot friends.
I think Mystery can walk his talk and his system works for the kind of woman he’s aiming at, in the environment he’s operating in. Mystery is also honest enough to admit that he uses Speed Seduction(R) in the comfort building phases of MM. Who am I to argue with someone who is honest and courageous enough to say that parts of MY system are useful in HIS system?
Unlike David DeAngelo, who DOES use NLP but continues to deny it has any value and who continues to pretend he learned nothing from me, Mystery is an honest guy. He doesn’t take credit unless he’s earned it and he gives credit where it is due. I can respect that.
I think Mystery’s ideas about personal change are way off course. I think his ideas about breaking fear are VERY off course. I think mental rehearsal AND field practice can work nicely hand in hand and ignoring mental rehearsal and the various belief change and state control methods out there are a serious gap in his system that makes it out of reach for MOST guys out there.
But the still offers real value and I’ve learned some things from him. I’m not going to deny it because flamers and idiots hallucinate a bad motivation that just isn’t there.
Finally, I will give you a few clues to Mystery that I think he himself is NOT consciously aware of because they form so great a part of his mindset, he doesn’t consciously see it.
1. He views it all as theatre. Clubs, to him, are a theatre and a stage where HE is going to be the star of the show.
2. He has an stage actor’s view knowledge of physical blocking. That is, he knows, when he goes into a venue, how the “stage” is laid out. Where he can best be seen from each and every angle. How he has to physically position himself to UPSTAGE anyone. It’s basic acting stuff but very useful.
3. I think, in alignment with #2 that he can walk into any venue and within a few minutes, build a 3-D model in his head of the physical space, who can see him best from each possible position, etc. He carries this around with him the entire time. His understanding of physical space of a venue and how to use it is like a hockey player knowing where the puck is in relation to him self at all times. It’s situational awareness with a STRONG visual internal element.
4. Mystery can split his conscious attention and awareness. That is, he can pay direct attention to the target’s social group, while, out of the corner of one eye, he is also tracking and keenly aware of, the responses of the target.
Milton Erickson used to hypnotize reluctant subjects in a simliar way; he’d sit them in one chair, off to the side, while he brought in a very co-operative and experienced subject to sit in the chair in front of him. While he addressed the co-operative subject directly, he was really tracking the reluctant subject off to one side and was really talking to HIM.
Mystery doesn’t directly teach this splitting of attention as an explicit principle, but it is a big part of what he does in his attraction phase.
5. He knows how to create “tension” by fractionating-giving attention/approval then removing it. For women who have abandonment issues, love drama(read: lots of women) that sets a strong unconscious pattern of having to please into play.
6. He understands the mindset of the target: shes’ bored with the blather, get hits on constantly, needs to be able to screen, and has all sorts of screening tricks.
7. He pattern interrupts; by not responding as she expects, but in fact, doing the same kinds of thing SHE does to men, he leaves her without her “script”. Her typical patterns are interrupted, creating suggestibilty and a willingness to be led. When he does the unexpected, her normal rejecting pattern gets shut down and he has a space to step in and lead. Very hypnotic and classic hypnotic stuff. It’s the verbal/social equivalent of a handshake interrupt induction.
Ok? I hope this shows the objective reader I’ve given MM and Mystery plenty of thought and extracted what I think is of value.
RJ
Ross seems to be honest here BUT why is Mystery so much better? What i mean is Mystery gets the super hot babes, Penthouse playmates, supermodels etc. whereas Ross does not. If he did he’d surely tell us! Ross makes it a big deal when he gets a phone number of some Asian when he drove his new Saab to a gas station Versus Mystery actually getting LAID, has 2 HOT GF’s.
Of course, RJ can say he does not want Supermodels or 9-10 HB’s. He might say he only wants older international females and not Mystery’s Beautiful Blondes. He might say he does not want to work the bars cause you need to hear the languaging BUT Mystery gets 9-10HB’s in coffee shops and all over as well. Could it be Mystery is so mich better looing but according to Ross brilliant marketing looks don’t matter right?
So why would ANYONE buy Ross’s stuff or go to his seminars when Ross himself does not get the Hottest of the Hot; he might not even getting laid much or at all. But perhaps Ross will say he moved beyond fucking. He transcended Sex with beautfiul women. Could be…but I doubt it!!!
So what’s the REAL truth?
“So what’s the REAL truth?”
Cue Truth
“So why would ANYONE buy Ross’s stuff or go to his seminars when Ross himself does not get the Hottest”
Probably because Mysterys workshops are invite only?
“Ross seems to be honest here BUT why is Mystery so much better? What i mean is Mystery gets the super hot babes, Penthouse playmates, supermodels etc. whereas Ross does not.”
Mystery only began getting those chicks recently, i.e., after his social value went up. Before that, he’d get 9s and 10s who were “club celebrities.” Now he’s got money, connections to the rock music and porn industries (through his wing), lots of money to spend, lots of time to socialize, and he’s 6’5″. Throw in the “professional PUA” schtick and it’s not such a “Mystery.”
By charging so much money for his work, he ensures that any guy he teaches is going to have at least one key element of “game,” namely money. Those men are easier to fix, obviously.
“Probably because Mysterys workshops are invite only?”
That’s not true. It’s an illusion to make you think the bootcamp is more valuable. They usually have openings all the way until the last few days before the bootcamp is to be held. Ross did the same thing in the DC2000 videos. He made you call up to “qualify” you to own that program for you to imagine it was more valuable than it really was. Don’t be fooled.
“Mystery only began getting those chicks recently, i.e., after his social value went up. Before that, he’d get 9s and 10s who were “club celebrities.” Now he’s got money, connections to the rock music and porn industries (through his wing), lots of money to spend, lots of time to socialize, and he’s 6’5″. Throw in the “professional PUA” schtick and it’s not such a “Mystery.”"
That’s very interesting. If that’s true, then Mystery would be another scam. I’m not inclined to believe it right now though. We’d have to see more proof.
“Ok? I hope this shows the objective reader I’ve given MM and Mystery plenty of thought and extracted what I think is of value.
RJ”
You gotta love the way RJ tries to come off as the ultimate authority on all things seduction. I’m starting to wish he made it up to Montreal so we can see some drama going there, the backstabbing, the lies, the politics of the seduction community.
“Mystery only began getting those chicks recently, i.e., after his social value went up. Before that, he’d get 9s and 10s who were “club celebrities.”"
What is a “club celebrity?”
And if Mystery got 9 and 10 club celebrities (whatever that is) especially in their 20′s that’s still pretty DAMN GOOD and UNLIKE the type of women Ross does get, if in fact, RJ gets any HB’s > 8. I’m sure Ross can get a HB7 or a HB8 african american or even a HB8.17 42 yr old BUT I bet even money Ross NEVER got a HB9.15 23 yr old Blonde beauty. I’m sure some of his students may “say” he does but that ain’t proof. So Mystery EVEN BEFORE the fame, money etc. GOT MUCH HOTTER WOMEN. Right?
many guys are a joke. they know everything in the seduction community about each person and they spend hours researching each person’s background. ( they probably know each PUA’s real name)
of course they read everything on websites like these.
And then they go “is this guy a scam? hmmmmmm” YEAAH
they dont even have the common sense to just go try out what they have learnt and they would know what works for THEM.
If you arent intelligent enought to get something to work for you, and then you decide since reading posts by whoever didnt make u a PUA you are now going to devote your life to thinking about them 14 hours a day and posting my frustrations as to why people respect these ASSHOLES who I JUST KNOW dont deserve it. Then hey at least u have reason ( stupid reason but still u’ll have one)
Im sure this guru is this good, im sure that guru is not so good? WHY?? because i think so thats why. And he hasnt convinced me enough. Their jobs are to show ME PROOF that they are good because i am a looser who has lots of time anyway and its so damn cool that i could just post “U SUCK” and these well known PUAS actually reply me. HOW cool is that? i’m so going to tell all my friends.
Hope u guys improve your game by leaps and bounds by such productive conversation.
Im sure u guys like all this SEDUCTION COMMUNITY stuff, but until u realize that can’t be any prominent part of it until you make some sense and post good advice, you will always be gettting your FIX through reading about whats happening through all the INTERNET websites. ( and trying to pass judgement that u think makes a difference to anything)
“Mystery only began getting those chicks recently, i.e., after his social value went up. Before that, he’d get 9s and 10s who were “club celebrities.”"
What is a “club celebrity?”
And if Mystery got 9 and 10 club celebrities (whatever that is) especially in their 20′s that’s still pretty DAMN GOOD and UNLIKE the type of women Ross does get, if in fact, RJ gets any HB’s > 8. I’m sure Ross can get a HB7 or a HB8 african american or even a HB8.17 42 yr old BUT I bet even money Ross NEVER got a HB9.15 23 yr old Blonde beauty. I’m sure some of his students may “say” he does but that ain’t proof. So Mystery EVEN BEFORE the fame, money etc. GOT MUCH HOTTER WOMEN. Right?
Can anyone tell me who the mastermind is behind Paul Martel’s character in the movie Unfaithful? His character is the best depiction of a guru that I’ve ever seen and he reminds me of Brent (the guy featured on David DeAngelo’s Interviews with Dating Gurus CD). If you know the answer to this, e-mail me at ssteelo4u@yahoo.com ..thanks!