My Dinner with Orion
March 5, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under News
So last night I met up with the PUA community’s biggest mainsay, the one and only ORION. Most people in the community will recognize the name, but for those of you who don’t, just go out and buy almost any product from Double Your Dating and SS and chances are you’ll hear him on there. Orion has been going strong in the community for nearly 10 years now, and has been in the inner circle of big guys like David DeAngelo and other gurus.
I first met Orion back in October when I was at the Chicago DYD seminar. I remember he was rather stand-offish when I originally tried to contact him, but once he realized I was a member of Mystery’s Lounge and good friends with Papa and Tyler Durden, he quickly warmed up. It was kind-of wierd to meet the guy, because I’d spent years listening to audio of him espousing pick-up theory on various home study courses. I guess it’s the equivalent of meeting a B-movie star, or an actor from TV who’s name you can’t remember but who’s face is instantly recognizable. It’s funny, because he’s exactly how he is on the products you hear and see him on as he is in person — a funny, good hearted guy with a genuine excitement for pretty much everything he does. Orion has a great energy about him, and is a genuine good guy to know.
In a lot of ways, Orion was an innovator in the seduction comunity, especially when it comes to the use of palm reading and handwriting analysis, as demonstrated by his Magical Connections videos. When I taught alongside him in the live in-field RSD workshops in Chicago, I was impressed with the sheer zeal with which he attacks the game. I’m often reminded of driving through downtown Chicago in a cab as Orion leaped over me in the backseat, stuck his head out the window of the moving car, and actually tried to sarge a girl walking on the sidewalk as we drived by. If that doesn’t illustrate this guy’s passion for picking up women, I don’t know what does. =)
Anyway, I met up with Orion and my buddy NuAje at the Grove and had a nice dinner (NuAje, I still owe you $20!). During that time, we talked about a lot of stuff. Orion was in town to meet up with his LA girlfriend, and seems to be getting more and more into the the fetish scene, which he says is easy to pick up in due to the easily suggestible girls who frequent it. He especially likes Goth clubs, because the girls are usually more open to being adventurous.
I asked him about Kamal, his partner in the Magical Connection videos, and he said they’re still friends, though he hasn’t talked to him in a while. Speaking of friends, we also talked about the David DeAngelo team-up with Tyler Durden and Real Social Dynamics where TD is now teaching the official DYD workshops. Orion expressed some disappointment at being pushed out of the in-field training position that was originally his. He talked about how he introduced David D to Papa and Tyler, and how he seems to have been cut out by those he helped champion. But he seems confident in Tyler’s abilities as a Pick-Up Artist and a Teacher, and knows he’ll do well no matter what.
All in all, it was an interesting night and it was fun to see Orion again. Hopefully, we’ll be seeing great things from him in the future.
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I met Orion this past summer. At first he did seemed a bit standoffish as an instructor but eventually we hit it off. The cool thing about Orion is he is willing to learn from anyone. I remember discussing about PIMPING a long with a few guys from the Montreal crew and Orion is there like a student with a pen and paper writing down books I was reccommending etc…and i’m thinking to myself that this guy is one of my early models from the SS days.
Day 2 I hung out in Bens group and sarged with him. I had some personal challenges with him in regards to my time in workshop and such which I let him and the RSD guys eventually know in private AND MOVED ON.
Students in workshop, seminar, etc PLEASE TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for your own learning with these guys. Let them know what you don’t like from the start so they can change and improve as well.
A side from that I have to say that Ben is a really genuine and cool guy with a lot to share. Some guys on the scene consider him a bit out there a freak or even a dork at times in game, BUT lets face it the guy has fucked hot chicks from all walks of life.
Plus he is the only guy I know who will really push the envelope in human interaction. A lot of guys including myself will do what is socially right or money. With Ben he has a fuck that and just keeps going style an attitude and thats why he is is one of the top guys on the scene. Ben really has NO LIMITS.
Even when I was pissed with him in a workshop context I saw the guy spin kiss a cute blonde 8 as an opener off the fuckin street and both slob each other like crazy within what 3 secs..the guy is truly unreal in what he does.
A side from my own past limitations I would love to learn from Ben again in the future and am willing to put a side my reality, thoughts, etc to see how far it can be pushed. Ben is really fuckin dangerous in the game.
L8R.
Dangerous
Interesting and highly clever bit of
real-politick by De-Angelo. He cuts Ben
out of the loop, rewarding Ben’s loyalty
with a slap in the face, and instead brings Tyler on board. Not only does he get to capitalize on Tyler’s popularity, but as an added scoop, De Angelo gets to make $$$$ off of Mystery’s best stuff(that Tyler will teach as his own) without giving Mystery a penny.
However, my prediction is that sooner or later, Tyler will take off on his own, taking De Angelo’s customers with him. So the snake will wind up biting both ways.
Interesting to see what the boys will do to survive. Ben, sorry you had to learn the hard way abou what DeAngelo is really like, but I did try to warn you. Tyler….I hope you have worked out a fair arrangement with Mystery as you teach HIS best stuff at someone else’s seminar and let that someone else(De Angelo) profit by it.
See what happens when all you can do is copy?
Toodles from the originator, boys.
RJ
Can you feel how it would be superkickass to GO AWAY Ross?
Sure Spanks, I can go away.
But then, 16 years from now when the copycats want NEW stuff to look for, where will they go?
Do you now realize that I was talking about setting challenges and being cocky and funny BACK IN 1988 when I wrote my original book?
No shit. I think it’s time I even quoted chapter and verse just to prove a point, but I have to rush to Yoga class.
Maybe another time.
RJ
P.S. Watch and see if I am right. If you think Tyler will refrain from teaching what he learned from Mystery just to honor his former mentor and friend, you have another thing coming. He WILL rip Mystery off and teach everything he learned, under the umbrella of DYD, enriching himself and DeAngelo but leaving Mystery out of the loop.
Mark my words….
your points have been noted, but why do you care since this doesn’t involve you directly?
rj reminds me of Gollum….is it me or is he losing it?
furthermore, who cares about who invented what first? Americans created the first mass produced automobile….but the japanese perfected the art. Should they have to give us credit (and royalties) for the rest of eternity?
Besides, none of us “invented” seduction, its been around in one form or another since the dawn of time. Its popularity as an art/science/skillset just happened to take off with the advent of the internet (ie the reality of mass communication).
Enough rambling.
sometimes rj reminds me of an afc guy trying to complain his gf because she goes out with something else.
first up – my frame. i’m a newbie in this game, and you giants can read into what i say from your magnificent, giant eyes.
second up – my impressions of the giants themselves. i’ve met a number of the pick up artists – ben, deangelo and the RSD group being among them – and most of them strike me as being people with huge ego problems. probably a huge factor in them getting girls like no tomorrow – but there for what you want to make of it. i wouldn’t trust any of these guys to show loyalty above personal interest any day of the fucking week.
now ross, i have some stuff i want you to listen to particularly. i like, and respect you. i think your awesome. i think your the ‘orginator’ as you call yourself, and i think you know your stuff. and i have no doubt your getting more action than you care to put into words. and you have helped at least one person tremendously, me, if you’ve done nothing else.
but ask yourself – why are guys like orion and rick h. on the deangelo fence right now? not to mention M. mark? why did they break away from the master himself?
your a guy who knows as much as language skills as a tool of persuasian as anybody on the planet – and yet all you can come up with on these blogs is slashing and tearing attacks that say more about you then what your talking about? Why?
I was listening to an interview you did with rick, and you had to bust in with engaging, but somewhat unneccarsiy comments to disrupt him. did you have to throw in a remark about an occasion when you got a girl into a state where rick had failed? did you have to tell ben to read more slowly because he wasn’t doing it properly in front of the audience?
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