Charisma Arts Strife
July 23, 2008 by Thundercat
Filed under Drama & Rumors
Its been brought to my attention by more than one source lately that Juggler’s company Charisma Arts might (and I repeat, MIGHT) be up to some shenanegans. Its hard to say since I have almost no contact with that company what’s going on over there, but enough people are emailing me to make me think all is not right with the CA crew.
Now it seems they’ve unceremoniously dumped one of their top instructors:
Dan writes:
It has been an interesting journey with CA. I think they offer an
amazing path for men to learn to be more social and better with women.
I still highly recommend them. Unfortunately I see some failings in
their leadership structure and business practices. None of this affects
their past present or future clients. I still recommend people take
their workshops. (IMHO Greg, their LA instructor is the best active
instructor they have)I have always wanted to expand what i learned beyond “pick-up” and
teach more. In the last six months it really looked like CA was
expanding in that direction. They had even changed their tagline to
“Teaching People Stuff to People”. However waiting for it made me a bit
apathetic and honestly i was getting burnt out. You can obviously see
from my lack of posting that i was not passionate about creating new
content. This was eventually what made CA justifiably think about
focusing on other instructors. Younger less-experienced instructors are
hungry for work. They are passionate about writing and bringing in
clients. So in essence my fresh apprentice became my replacement.The hardest thing I found about the end of my working with Charisma
Arts was the way in which it came about. While the company is fantastic
with working with their clients in their workshops, communication
beyond talking to girls in bars apparently does not apply to their
internal communication. I was taken off the schedule for two months and
all of my workshops were changed to my apprentice who was the newest
instructor on the team. I was not told of this change and I only found
out about this because a client emailed me asking when my next workshop
was because they wanted to work with me. I checked the schedule and to
my surprise two months of workshops that i was scheduled for were no
longer being taught by me. My full time employment for two years had
come to a close without so much as a whisper.
This is the third or fourth major employee Juggler has burned through and parted on less-than-stellar-terms with. Gotta make you wonder, right?
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Ever since Christian Hudson left, it’s gone DOWN TOWN like the Titanic.
Im not sure why some of these comments are being made other than some bitterness by Dan. I think some followers came to like certain instructors and feel betrayed they have been let go.
The facts:
JM is not like RSD and their teachings are actually much more applicable and likely to work in day game than clubs. These guys are not teaching just “club” game — in fact their suggestions flat out suck in many clubs or bars. JM teaches rapport and how to build it.
JM is undergoing some changes to make them more appealing to younger people who are interested in pickup. Traditionally the JM method has been very very hands off and very very 7th heaven with their teachings.
What’s going on here is that the JM method has never truely jived with many in the community because the people involved in it have always seemed “too good” for pickup or “too good” for teaching any attraction phases or “above” resorting to bars and clubs. In fact many longstanding followers dont even go to bars and clubs.
Jm is adapting a bit to suit a more active audience, they are moving a little bit in the direction of most companies that are successful but still retaining a JM feel. This is good for their customers and good for any other man who takes pickup and calibration seriously. It’s the guys that are not active and the men who don’t want to change and hang onto AFC ideals that are over-reacting to any changes being made — which are very subtle.
What exactly was the real point of that post by Mack Child?
Are you trying to excuse the claim that the guy was unceremoniously dismissed?
You sound like the spokesman for Charisma Arts speaking at a press conference.
And why do you still talk about RSD so much (even when the subject is another, unrelated company)?!
Not flaming, but I just don’t get it.
Cramswell, it’s what is commonly called a keyboard jockey – a spectator – a fanboy – all watch and speculation and no life or action.
Someone tried to say that JM is as bad as RSD and was trying to compare it to RSD — which is why I bring it up.
The reason I am defending JM is that I have studied it at length and have a lot of knowledge of what the real deal is.
Mack “Missed-The-Meaning-but-Mounted-A-Monkey” Wild,
WHO even SUGGESTED that JM was a bad method or even a problem?! No one, except for you!
WHAT people are wondering, myself included, is whats going on behind the scenes at Charisma Arts may not all be nice happy flowerbed of roses…In fact what people ARE wondering is WHATS THE DEAL with these mysterious firings & deletions of entire posts from instructors that added value & legitimacy to Juggler’s company.
When Christian Hudson left, I didn’t even give it two thoughts, such a bowled-over by JUGGLER METHOD person was I (which now makes me feel sick because I JUDGED Christian JUST because I like JM & he left JM so forget about him….!! HELLO! Do you see my faulty logic there?)
So I thought nothing of it. Then one instructor disappears then another, Don Diego de la Vega, Dimitri (not The Lover) & others, their posts deleted in the forums (Dimitri wrote LOADS that LOADS of people really appreciated coz he was giving it out for FREE in the forum, a very GIVING person you know) & Now Dan!
Fuck me I don’t jump to conclusions but time after time of instructors being fired with very little or ZERO explanation from the CA crew, with their posts gone & no apparent way to contact them..
ADD all THAT TO the WAY in which they just CUT OFF Dan?
Open your eyes ol Mackdonald. The farm’s been soiled by pigs. Perhaps, & maybe, just maybe, it just MIGHT be OKAY if we ask whats the deal & try to hold partners in our community to task for treating others as “its” instead of “you”s
Dare.
Ps – Commenters, feel free to tell me to suck your dick again, I love it when you prove to me your gay – Not that there’s anything wrong with that…
Dare:
If you want you can go back to the first thread about juggler in the blog a few days back and read it along with the comments. Then you can get a better idea of what I was responding to. I was responding to the attempts by people to generalize past the instructor thing — and compare the JM method and it’s recent movement to RSD — which is bullshit.
Rsd and JM could not be more different.
As for the instructor thing, if you had a company and you were going to fire someone or someone was to quit — would you hold a meeting in the middle of work or have a party with cake and pinata’s in memory of the employee that some people love — in celebration of the fact your going to fire them or let them go? Does that make any sense at all? I agree that deleting the posts is a bit excessive — but if you were an employee who go fired from a job would you want that company using or sharing your trade secrets? Didn’t think so.
So that’s where I stand on regarding that. I wish everyone on this blog good luck with whatever it is your up to — so long as it doesn’t involve scamming others or being sick in the head — which unfortunately seems to be the “in” thing these days.
I attended a CA bootcamp last fall.
The instructors were terribly unorganized. At least two of the three appeared to have self-esteem issues, and it manifested itself in a the “alpha” way they treated the students and others around them. Which means — being rude and callous.
Some of the advice they gave was misinformed and erroneous.
I wouldn’t recommend the CA material to anyone.
doug did you get a refund?
doug did you get a refund?
I WOULD recommend CA to EVERYONE, I just wouldn’t take a bootcamp that’s all.
Buy the ebooks, learn from them because they have some amazing life-changing advice if you apply it right.
Just generally be careful of the statement your “spending mouth” (ie money) is making. What kind of world do we want? Well, lets support that financially. Spend your most on companies or people that are aligned with the way YOU see how the world could be bettered, that seems to be the way they think of it too.
Here’s the partial list of people who parted ways with CA in the last two years:
Christian Hudson (the co-founder, business manager, web developer)
Rick (instructor)
Eric (instructor)
Kate (female instructor)
Matt Savior (instructor)
Val (business manager)
Matt (business manager)
Landon (media manager)
Kevin (business manager)
Alec (instructor)
Jayson (business manager, senior instructor)
Judson (senior instructor)
Locky (instructor)
Kory (master instructor)
Joe (instructor)
Laura (web developer)
Dimitri (senior instructor)
Johnny Saviour (vice president, master instructor)
Chad (senior instructor)
Dan (senior instructor)
It’s 20 people – possibly more. Makes one wonder. A man who
discards his employees like this must definitely have issues, and his company is clearly unstable, ready to explode any moment.
People usually disappear from Charisma Arts immediately or soon after a public event of some sort. The next event is this September. Who’s next to go? My prediction is Troy or Jamie. Most likely Troy. It may also be Tim, if Troy keeps his position in the company: Tim and Troy share the same neighborhood. Still, Troy has been with the company long enough to make Juggler want to replace him with the new blood. I suggest, if you like what Troy writes, save it somewhere. It might be gone from CA site before October. Rob, Juggler’s current favorite (the spot gained naively through a hostile takeover from Johnny Saviour) may also be a likely candidate for the purge.
As for the CA method – it’s good… or may be it’s not. Who knows. But I would be suspicious of any particular people skill offered to me by a control-obsessed individual who doesn’t seem to be able to keep his staff constant.
Now Rob Overman and Miq’s name’s are missing from Charisma Arts instructors list.
“But I would be suspicious of any particular people skill offered to me by a control-obsessed individual who doesn’t seem to be able to keep his staff constant.”
I am happy to be on that list of the departed. Wayne is a great guy. Fun to hang out with. Fun to clown around with. But yes, he is control-obsessed. All the business decisions are made emotionally. He admits it.
That said, his writing is entertaining and his principles are as solid as it gets. It’s obvious to me with my experience using them.
There are crazy neurotic people that create unquestionably great art throughout history. Wayne may be a neurotic control freak, but his great art is in bringing to light a framework to be yourself during the seduction process. His method builds inner game in and of itself.
I don’t recommend getting a job there. (And I don’t see how much longer it can last.) But if you’re looking for a framework on how to be your self and get laid/girlfriends. The ebook, the wiki, the newsletters, and a few sample conversations are more than enough. I believe that can be found for close to free.
Finally,he kicked them all out.!!!
Great job juggler!there is none left to sweep away from CA…or,maybe the next is going to be yourself??