Juggler In New Guru Feud?

Okay, so a while back I wrote a post about how Juggler, the guy behind Charisma Arts, seems to have a lot of unpublicized feuds going on, particularly when it comes to his former business partner Christian Hudson.  Well, it seems the feud goes a little deeper than I previously thought.

Check out the latest drama on the Charisma Arts message boards, titled:  "Christian Hudson is a theif, Wayne what do I do?" (The post since seems to have been deleted!)

Check out the drama below…

So an inside source on the CA message board sent me the full thread.  Here’s how it goes…

Juggler wrote:
As you know, I’m no fan of Jonathan Hudson or Christian Hudson.  I would not normally defend him but I don’t think he is a thief.  You will probably read somewhere in the thing that you bought that he could bill you every month.  I hate those type of things.  They are a good way for the companies using them to get rich.  If you have accidently signed up for one of these you should be able to write to your credit card company and ask for a refund.  But I am no expert.  In general there are terms (usually in smaller letters) that you must actively tell them you want to discontinue billing or they will bill you every month until you die.  But in this case I am not sure what his billing policy says and may be in big words, I just don’t know.

But you said you canceled it so that I don’t understand.  Maybe he forgot to push the cancel button or something or there was a bug in his system – I don’t know, I’m only conjecturing but I find it hard to believe that he would deliberatly take your money.

That said, these type of continual payment things, in my opinion, take advantage of people forgetting to turn them off.  So no, I wouldn’t actually call Hudson a thief.

Hmmm.  I wonder what happened between Juggler and Christian?  Anyway, here’s a reply which probably warranted the thread being deleted…

Sebastian Drake writes:
Guys,

This story needs to be set straight. Let me start from the top. My name is Sebastian Drake and I built one of the other seduction companies in the industry – we actually launched before Charisma Sciences and watched the company grow into Charisma Arts, and in fact, far surpass us in terms of doing business. The company was well-run, and I always had a lot of respect for everyone at CA.

So anyway, I do my thing, and I’ve never come on this forum to promote. One of the products we launched recently is called Master. The. Vibe – Why are those weird periods there? Because it’s censored on this forum if someone mentions it. Anyway, I launched the product with Christian Hudson, one of the founders behind Charisma Arts and just a really, really smart guy.

So anyway, when Christian left Charisma Arts, things got… unpleasant, I guess? I don’t know the whole story – just some of it – but when people who worked closely to build something divide and split up, often there’s some… hurt feelings? I don’t know. Something like that.

But anyway, we released our product, which is conversations between men and women. It comes monthly, and people get it, and we’ve been getting great reviews so far, including on our customer service. Now why do I mention this? Because my friend, and partner for this project, has been called a thief, and the company I’m running – Firsthand Communications, which produces Master. the. Vibe has been called out by Wayne as basically being unethical…

Which is totally unacceptable to me. Ethics are paramount to me, and while I know a lot of you don’t know me, some of you do – and you know how important it is for me to do right by people.

Now, here’s the really big problem – One of our reps came on and made a post apologizing for the mistake to 16187317 – he canceled and accidentally got shipped one more month after he canceled. 100% our fault, and we immediately rectified it, apologized, and clarified here. We made a mistake, and for that we offered him our humblest apologies, and fixed it as soon as possible.

But anyway, the post said that.

That post was censored.

It was willfully deleted by either Wayne or another member of the Charisma Arts team. Now, I understand why it would be, and I understand if you don’t want discussion of our product on this board. But here’s what I won’t stand for -

No one’s going to call my friend a liar and call my business unethical and expect me to do nothing about it. We’re out to provide a good product, and people like it, and if they don’t, we let them go with no hassle. People can see for themselves and make decisions for themselves – censoring the name of our product, deleting replies from us explaining what’s going on, and then calling a damn good man a liar is unacceptable.

If anyone here wants to knock us and joke about us, that’s fine. The people that want to learn from us will do so, and the ones that don’t will not. All that I’m here to say is that censorship isn’t an acceptable option – I know you don’t want potential competitors making sales off this forum, and we’ve consciously decided not to come here to promote despite the fact that this very product has been requested on this forum and the people are people who would be very interested in it.

We’re live and let live – if you want to delete this thread, I don’t approve of that (let the record show that we made a mistake, and fixed it) but please don’t represent us having poor customer service or that we "take advantage of people" and then censor our replies – we’re a competing business, but a little mutual respect would be appreciated. We work hard to do right by our customers and provide a damn good product, and Christian is most definitely not a thief. Sheesh wink

In any event, I wish everyone the best results in their social lives, regardless of affiliation. Best and God bless,

Sebastian Drake
Producer of… That Censored Audio Series

So there seems to be a lot of bad blood between the Juggler camp and the Christian camp.  CA is censoring their message board pretty heavily, and the other guys… well, they just seem to be whining a lot about it.

I wonder what the real story is here?