State Of The Community
June 15, 2007 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
So yesterday I was graced with the presence of none other than the dynamic duo of fastseduction.com, Formhandle and TokyoPUA. They’re in LA visiting and I took them around town and hung out with them. I think the last time I had seen Formhandle was the 2004 PUA Summit at Project Hollywood, and this was the first time meeting TokyoPUA face to face.
Anyway, over lunch we had a lot of conversations about the "state of the community." These guys basically get to see all the "up-and-comers" in the PUA world thanks to their involvement in the hub of the community, and I’m in somewhat of a similar position because of this blog.
Anyway, what we shared with each other wasn’t good.
Back in the "heyday" of the community (at least as the three of us saw it), we had a lot of original thinkers posting some great stuff. You had people like Mystery, Style, Toecutter, Swinggcat, Juggler, Ross Jeffries, Tyler Durden, and a whole slew of others posting ideas, theories, field reports, and tons of other things – all of which were interesting to read.
The big problem now is that there seems to be a void because these people have stopped sharing ideas and posting to the community portals. They’ve withdrawn. I don’t think its because they’re all commercial and don’t want to post anymore, I think some of them are just busy living their lives and others have just lost interest in the community.
Which leaves the newbies…
And what I mean by newbies are the "Post-Game"-ers who’ve migrated to the seduction community thanks to Neil’s book.
Now, I’m all for Youngblood. I think we need new people coming in with new ideas and techniques and all that jazz. So I welcome everyone who’s coming in trying to be a "guru."
But I think most of them are going about it the wrong way.
I get emails all the time asking me to link to a new blog, a new site, to post an article or a video or whatever because someone read the game and wants to make money teaching a workshop. But so much of what I see is just a rehashing of a watered-down version of Mystery Method.
I do think it’s important to encourage people to foster new ideas and succeed – even if they do have commercial interest in the outcome. In the end, it’s really a benefit to everyone.
I think most of the post-Game "gurus" need to learn that these skills are first and foremost about helping men lead better lives, rather than just "getting laid" or "making money."
So many men quietly suffer from lonliness, self-doubt, insecurity, and fear. They think getting laid will help them, make them feel better, but even if they do get laid, the feelings of happiness they’re searching for doesn’t last.
I look at Pick-Up as a form of self improvement, because before you can help othters, you always have to help yourself. It isn’t selfish, it’s just a fact. People who teach others will not only teach them their strengths, they will teach their weaknesses as well. So a lot of these young guys still don’t have enough experience with life, love, and overcoming their inner demons to be worth listening to. Having a new "DHV" or "Opening Line" is cool, but in the end, that stuff doesn’t really help anyone. It’s the experience and understanding that comes with self-growth that helps people.
If someone wants to become the next "Mystery" or "Style," then they have to understand what these guys did that made them WORTH paying for.
Mystery overcame his fear of meeting women, and spent years helping others do it for free online before he began teaching his workshops.
Style spent years being an unpaid guest instructor for Mystery. He’d post some of the best shit you’ve ever read here and on other forums for free, because we was working through stuff and wanted others to give him feedback and help him understand what he needed to fix about himself.
This is the real crux of the issue to me. Because for these guys – improving themselves came first, helping others came second, and then the money followed.
I think that’s a lesson everyone can benefit from.
So here is my challenge to all the "up and comers" out there. Can you grow as both a teacher and a student? Can you innovate and use 100% original material? Can you focus on helping others before you run off and try to start a business doing it?
I look forward to seeing if there’s any new blood out there that can actually accomplish this.
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In my experience You can still find some good posts by the “originals” It’s just that now everyone has their own blogs they post on. Agreed posting is not as often as back in the day but still good info.
Couldn’t agree with you more. but then things change.
More often than not all I see is people reinventing the wheel. There’s no longer a spirit of adventure.
“More often than not all I see is people reinventing the wheel. There’s no longer a spirit of adventure.”
How many times can you talk about getting laid? Seduction is seduction. Fucking is fucking.
My blog alone is over 400+ posts and there are days when I’m hardpressed to coming up with something noteworthy to write about.
We don’t need more “New Tech” or “Whiz Bang Routines” or the new “Trendy Style”, guys just need to get out there and DO something.
Asian Playboy, your blog sucks. You obviously know nothing about PUA. So shut your face.
Papa called. He wants his gimick back.
Hey,
Tend to agree here, but then – it’s easy to miss the new guys who /are/ good, and who are thinking original thoughts amongst the many wannabees.
Everything will always seem like watered-down Mystery Method. It’s like if you have a set of directions from A to B – once someone makes a great set, any that come from that are going to seem like they’re watered down.
The trick is in expressing the old ideas in a way that makes them more accessible and helps new guys to apply them most quickly.
Two new blogs I’ve come across recently (to which I’m not affiliated) that I really like, that I wouldn’t have found unless someone hooked me up:
http://rajnanavati.wordpress.com/ – a PU101 instructor
http://seductivecody.blogspot.com/ – some Indian PUA
Both are posting good shit at the moment.
Problem is there’s just an information over-load at the moment. That’s why I started Grow Your Game – means you can easily just filter out all the crap, and see anything good that’s posted in the community. It’s a win! (http://www.growyourgame.com/)
Thanks for posting something that sparks decent discussion!
-jl
I dunno’. When most guys went commercial, they started sending out the same 3 or 4 emails over, and over again. I lost interest. I don’t see most of it now. It goes directly to my junk folder as spam.
Hi, Thundercat, I’m Naxos from BogotГЎ, Colombia, It’s an honor for me write to you.
I have a blog http://naxoseduccion.blogspot.com... I’m a psychologyst PUA and I’m trying to help to other guys to have more self confidence and success in their personal lifes, their projects and their romances. The Seduction is a new culture here in my country and I am the guy in charge.
I would like to appear in your Blogroll… you already have one link in my blog, I admire you a lot. The Community in South America is hungry for leadership and I’m taking the challenge.
I Think It’s time to show differents approaches to the seduction in differents countries.
If you want to know all the interesting stuff that I am doing, please visit my blog -is in spanish of course, but sure you can know some words- LOL!!
Thanks a lot for help me to spread the Latin Seduction Game… it’s plenty of new concepts totally designed for our culture, and our women (you know the hips of Shakira and stuff).
My best regards for you,
Naxos
Hi there,
First off I need to say I’m new to the community. I started reading into PUA only two months ago: books, video’s, audiotapes, you know… the usual stuff.
The main points I picked up from Thundercats post:
1. mPUA’s from the вЂold days’ don’t show their face online anymore.
2. There’s not being post (enough) interesting stuff anymore.
3. The seduction community is being flooded with newcomers who don’
4. Of which many only seem to care about themselves (making money out of seduction) and not caring about/contributing to the community.
In my humble opinion all this is mainly caused because of two things: seduction has become hot… and because of that seduction has commercialized. A brief summary of seduction history:
In the old days, when seduction theory was new, not many people where working on it and not to many people knew about it. It was something new, something unexplored.. undefined. As time passed more and more people started to become aware of the community and seduction material slowly formed into the theories we know nowadays.
Things started to change when Mystery started organizing workshops. From that very moment seduction became about making money. With his reputation, well worked out theories and in-the-field workshops he started to draw more people to the community FAST. Also with Ross giving workshops already this was the first time really a commercial competition started. Then Neil’s book came out and the community really exploded, new guru’s with their so called own special theories popping up everywhere.
So from that moment things changed. For the big players who started it all seduction wasn’t anymore about helping themselves and helping others, it became about making money. Upcoming PUA’s saw their teachers making money easy and so they wanted to do the same, copying most of the stuff. The community started to split up and fall apart.
..And here are we now. With seduction being all about money for the mPUA’s they obviously don’t want to share their material anymore just like that; competing PUA’s can and WILL use it. This way there won’t be any more new theories coming from them. Also there seems to be going on quite some attitude, guru’s bitching each other. That doesn’t help either. And like Thundercatt pointed out.. many of the original guru’s simply aint all that active anymore because seduction isn’t high priority for them anymore.
As for the newcomers, the newbies like me, we can still learn easily from the material available, but contributing new stuff is difficult.. there has been said so much about seduction already. But like with everything on our planet also seduction theories will keep evolving, but just not as fast as when it was just new.
BUT ! All those new people and wannabe guru’s aint all that bad. It surely will keep the community alive and with all those people discussing the existing material I’m sure there will pop up new stuff. There are still enough people who like sharing, helping each other. There will new mPUA’s and not all of them will go commercial. I’m not all that active yet on forums but I noticed enough leading personalities already, giving good comments, helping others out. Also because the community became this big it can take some while before you hear about some new mPUA. Perhaps things aint all that fucked up as one might think. I for sure will try contribute as I go through the phases from AFC to hopefully one day a proper PUA.
greets, Fry.
Great post Fry,
I don’t agree with you about seduction being ALL commercial. In fact, I don’t personally agree that the commercialization of seduction is a bad thing. The more guys who are exposed to this stuff, the more people it can help, and commercialization allows that to happen.
I think my post was really about two things…
1. Guys who haven’t earned their stripes going out and selling their services even though they haven’t earned the right to do so.
And
2. A lack of innovation coming from the youngblood in the community.
As I mentioned before, everyone seems to take one Mystery workshop, and then feels like they can start their own workshop and make money at it. So they may come up with a “new opener” or whatever, but they really aren’t innovating. They’re just doing the same thing that’s been around for years.
One of the things I always loved about Mystery was that he was always coming up with new ideas and testing them out. That’s how he developed his model.
People like Neil, Juggler, Swinggcat, Gunwitch, and others appear to operate the same way.
But I don’t see any new guys doing this. They’re not our experimenting, pushing the edge, incorporating new things. (And if they are, they aren’t posting about it.)
That’s what I’d like to see more of. And I guess that’s what my post was really about.
Thundercat
Thundercat, you’re such a chode. You epitomize the keyboard jockey. Don’t talk about ‘young blood’ when you can’t pull. Close down the blog and get laid. And your ebook sucks.
Chode? Do I sense an RSD desciple trolling this blog?
Go back to masterbating to your Blueprint DVDs, loser.