Annihilation Method Sold Out!
May 28, 2006 by Thundercat
Filed under News
Wow,
Yesterday was crazy. Neil was really overwhelmed by the amazing reaction he got on Saturday, where he sold out of the 375 copies in just a few hours.
Neil wanted me to thank all of you for your outpouring of support for what he was doing. He knew the price for the Annihilation Method was high, and I don’t think him (or me, for that matter) expected the course to actually sell out. I think we were both expecting to do maybe 20-25 total sales the first day, but to actually sell out so quickly was beyond our wildest ideas.
I think Neil and I are really proud about what we were able to do with the Annihilation Method course, and we fully expect everyone who ordered a copy to be imensely impressed with it.
Not only that, but We also have a few surprises in store for the people who ordered it (and for the people who miss out, too!).
And for all you "haters" out there, lighten up. Life goes on. =)
XRumer23Seami on 
Roberttex on 
Acxzworma on 
Rjgrbl on 
XRumer23Seami on 
So Neil uses his “#1 PUA ranking” to sell the world on his book, then uses his book to sell the community on his method. All the while, the guy who ranked him #1 turns out to be his marketing manager for the method he’s selling to the community.
For the first time in the sordid history of mankind…I have to agree with Ray Gordon (assuming its the same one we all know and love).
Thundercat has been in cahoots with Style and developing this scheme ever since he named him the “world #1 pick up artist” way back when.
This entire marketing scam and ensuing controversy is nothing short of brillant on Style’s behalf, for that, if nothing else, I have put my hands together for him.
Too bad I also wish Style’s big, greedy and sniveling egg head was in between the claps.
It was fun to play my old Europe Record again.
The Final Count Down
Till the next Super seceret Product.
“Not only that, but We also have a few surprises in store for the people who ordered it (and for the people who miss out, too!).”
Maybe coupons for a discount on his two new books?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060884053/qid=1148868380/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_8/002-5443708-8392063?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312360118/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_4/002-5443708-8392063?%5Fencoding=UTF8
“For the first time in the sordid history of mankind…I have to agree with Ray Gordon (assuming its the same one we all know and love).”
You should try the Jimmy Swaggart approach:
“I have sinned :::::sob::::::: against YOU, MY LORD ::::::::::::::SOB-SOB-SOB::::::::::, but I agree with Ray.” This is field tested.
Yours isn’t bad though.
“Thundercat has been in cahoots with Style and developing this scheme ever since he named him the “world #1 pick up artist” way back when.”
Saying that and proving it are two different things, but at the very least, the appearance of a business relationship, even after the fact, is just something one would have thought he would try to avoid.
“This entire marketing and ensuing controversy is nothing short of brillant on Style’s behalf, for that, if nothing else, I have put my hands together for him.”
I wouldn’t call it brilliant just yet. Thundercat and Style aren’t the only one with surprises in store.
“Too bad I also wish Style’s big, greedy and sniveling egg head was in between the claps.”
Now now, this is a civilized society. We don’t resolve disputes that way.
All I will say for now is that it’s not exactly easy to compete against the type of marketing we have seen here.
This is from the “Revealed” thread:
“Looks like its set to be released this Saturday at 10:00 am pacific time (That’s 1:00 pm for all you Easterners, out there). But Neil is only selling 375 copies of the course, so its going to be a race to get one.”
Now he says he is SURPRISED that it sold out so quickly?
I have no problem with Style and Thundercat getting rich. It’s a matter of meeting supply and demand. They asked for a lot and got it. Good for them.
However..they really did use this community to get good at what they do…and now they’re done with you.
A good business man will sell to those who have money to spend. Most of you guys are too cheap to buy a girl Wendy’s hamburger. Or have that “I’ll get this program for free from bearshare”.
Why would they care about you? IT’S A BUSINESS. DON’T TAKE IT SO PERSONAL!!!
>So Neil uses his “#1 PUA ranking” to sell the
>world on his book, then uses his book to sell
>the community on his method. All the while,
>the guy who ranked him #1 turns out to be his
>marketing manager for the method he’s selling
>to the community.
Damn right. And that is SMART AS HELL.
This is what gets me. All this talk about
“Selling Out”.
I mean, what the FUCK is he selling out?
It’s 375 copies with NDA’s, so you know its
not like a billion people will be stealing
your thunder on the dance floor.
So… I guess the reason your pissed is
because he made a lot of money?
JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE, GROW THE FUCK UP.
You did NOT get hurt.
The “Scene” did not get hurt.
Hell NO ONE got hurt.
Are you REALLY just upset because someone
made some money?
Look, i’m pretty new to all this. And
honestly, I bought the course.
Because I make a bunch of fucking money
and can afford it. And i’m pumped as hell
to get a hold of it.
But that’s not what this is about.
I’m Just a regular guy who thinks that this
board is full of whining little babies who
can’t stand the thought of someone doing
something big. Something different.
Something more uplifting than their average
boring ordinary life.
Where all they do is sit on a fucking blog
and cry on their keyboards.
>So Neil uses his “#1 PUA ranking” to sell the
>world on his book, then uses his book to sell
>the community on his method. All the while,
>the guy who ranked him #1 turns out to be his
>marketing manager for the method he’s selling
>to the community.
“Damn right. And that is SMART AS HELL.”
Is it?
“This is what gets me. All this talk about
‘Selling Out.’ I mean, what the FUCK is he selling out?”
The “purists” think that the information should not be pitched to the mainstream, even if it inevitably will. This is similar to when Ken Uston wrote “Beat The Dealer” and “ratted” out the card-counters at Blackjack. Very soon after that, the casinos started dealing eight-deck games and using face-recognition technology to bust up the card counters.
“It’s 375 copies with NDA’s, so you know its
not like a billion people will be stealing
your thunder on the dance floor.”
I think when an NDA appears, the notion that he’s here to help the masses is more difficult to sell. People build their names on these boards by slipping under the radar at first, even attacking the commercialism, and then a few years later they are suddenly selling something. Mystery originally used the boards to market his magic tricks.
They go from “I’m here to help people” to “I have to earn a living.”
“So… I guess the reason your pissed is
because he made a lot of money? JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE, GROW THE FUCK UP. You did NOT get hurt.”
Just like no one got hurt when record companies paid radio stations to give airplay to their songs.
“The “Scene” did not get hurt.”
Neither did music.
“Hell NO ONE got hurt.”
Neither did anyone in music.
“Are you REALLY just upset because someone
made some money?”
Why is it that so many people who say “leave the business guy alone” change their tune when other “business guys” have stuff to sell?
“Look, i’m pretty new to all this. And
honestly, I bought the course.”
So you’re new to all this but you know so much?
“Because I make a bunch of fucking money
and can afford it. And i’m pumped as hell
to get a hold of it.”
Women like guys with money. No game required. It’s like teaching a nine-footer how to play basketball or a cheetah how to run.
“But that’s not what this is about. I’m Just a regular guy”
If you make a lot of money, you are NOT a regular guy, and if you post anonymously, their is no way to verify who you are or anything about you. When Thundercat ranked Style #1, he was just a regular webmaster. Now he’s part of the $1.4 million day.
“who thinks that this
board is full of whining little babies who
can’t stand the thought of someone doing
something big. Something different.”
For someone complaining about whiners, you’re sure doing a lot of it yourself.
“Something more uplifting than their average
boring ordinary life.”
Isn’t it amazing how the net is full of so many anonymous folks with allegedly great lives, who still manage to find the time to tell us about it all the time?
“Where all they do is sit on a fucking blog
and cry on their keyboards.”
He said before clicking “post.”
the only thing he is selling out….is his products. Shut the fuck up already. you all sound like little bitches. Then when you guys get off your lazy asses and spend countless hours editeding, recording, designing books etc… you’ll know how hard it is to bring knowledge together so that you lazy unmotivated bitches dont have to be unique enough to come up with your own concepts. NO Wonder you guys can’t get laid…you already sleep with bitches yourselfs…congrats from someone who knows how hard it is to package a product.
ps. thundercat this is free base card. grey goose..platinum got it? good
1.4 million dollars in a few hours with only 375 copies
Congratulations.
Seriously this community is now the biggest market in the self help arena.
I think most people do know that if Style released something like this a year ago he would have only been able to sell it for 300 dollars.
The guys who bought must not have realized that with 4000 dollars they can buy almost every single other product out there combined including all Mystery’s, RSD’s Badboys, Sharks, DYD, PU 101, Juggler, RJ.
And even attend a live in field workshop too.
U’ll have 1000′s of hours of seminars and ebooks on hand and u wont even be able to finish it all, and now u guys have just bought one product with that money.
Makes us glad we are selling to dorks & idiot nerds.
Although seriously this marketing campaign has made all of us who are into commercial marketing of seduction products realize what is possible and everyone will definitely be trying to do something like this just to see what happens.
Hell even if we sell just 20 copies we wont lose money.
4000 for a CD SET
must be a world record price.
can i ask if the 375 must have bought every single other product out there?
cause if u didnt theres something wrong with u
The main problem that almost everyone has with this is not that he made alot of money but it is the manner in which he went about it.
Every e-mail he sent promoting this contained at least one lie, most of the contained numerous lies. The marketing campaign was based on lies and transparent attempts at manipulation. If he would have just been honest from the start he could have still used all the same techniques of creating scarcity and buzz and a time constraint etc.
That is the dumbest part of the whole thing, the lies were completely unecessary. If he just told the truth he still could have used most of the same marketing techniques and he would have still sold them all based on his name, his fame, and his reputation.
So basically he trashed his name, his rep, his integrity, and all goodwill towards him for nothing. I used to really like Neil, frankly I’m disapointed that he did this, I thought he had more class and integrity than this.
ThunderCat, I’m not a “hater” before all this I enjoyed seeing Neil be successful and I was looking forward to him releasing hi products. I liked Neil and tried to give him the benefit of the doubt as long as I could.
So don’t confuse the issue and say people are mad because he made money on this, I think the majority of people are mad because he lied to us and tried to play us for fools. Most of the big names in the community make money from it but have never had such a strong negative response like this.
Why did you lie to us Neil, now your credibilty is gone and I’m wondering about the credibililty of other things you have said, done, or written in the past.
Good post, Cowboy.
I doubt it will stay, TC has been very sensitive to anyone pointing to the truth of the matter.
However, I think you should ask yourself if there were so many lies leading up to the release of AM …
What are the chances that the truth is being told now regarding the sales?
Only about 20-25 were actually sold.
Don’t believe the hype.
Best,
G13
(ps This will likely be deleted, as well as your post. Don’t take it personally. It’s just good business to silence the truth.)
You guys knew it would sell out – it said on the page that there would be refunds for people when it sold out.
“The main problem that almost everyone has with this is not that he made alot of money but it is the manner in which he went about it. Every e-mail he sent promoting this contained at least one lie, most of the contained numerous lies. The marketing campaign was based on lies and transparent attempts at manipulation. If he would have just been honest from the start he could have still used all the same techniques of creating scarcity and buzz and a time constraint etc.”
You sounds like an HB10 whining about falling for a player trick.
“That is the dumbest part of the whole thing, the lies were completely unecessary. If he just told the truth he still could have used most of the same marketing techniques and he would have still sold them all based on his name, his fame, and his reputation.”
Isn’t it a little troubling that “name, fame and reputation” trump other considerations?
“So basically he trashed his name, his rep, his integrity, and all goodwill towards him for nothing. I used to really like Neil, frankly I’m disapointed that he did this, I thought he had more class and integrity than this.”
This sounds like an HB10 talking about her ex-boyfriend. Perhaps, like an HB10, you ignored some people who were different than you thought in the other direction. Come to think of it, you probably didn’t bat an eye when these folks and/or their friends attacked me, kind of like the HB10 who assumed that her man would be one way to the world and another to her. Who is the real problem here?
“ThunderCat, I’m not a “hater” before all this I enjoyed seeing Neil be successful and I was looking forward to him releasing hi products. I liked Neil and tried to give him the benefit of the doubt as long as I could. So don’t confuse the issue and say people are mad because he made money on this, I think the majority of people are mad because he lied to us and tried to play us for fools. Most of the big names in the community make money from it but have never had such a strong negative response like this.”
This is nothing compared to the flames I get everywhere I go, including by Mystery (Style’s buddy) if you haven’t noticed.
Then again, if an HB10 sees her boyfriend freak out at some AFC guy, the boyfriend can play it off like the AFC is some unpopular loser, and that she’s joining some kind of superior, exclusive club if she chooses him instead. Who is the problem here: them or you?
“Why did you lie to us Neil, now your credibilty is gone and I’m wondering about the credibililty of other things you have said, done, or written in the past.”
The question isn’t why he did what he did. We know that. It’s why YOU did what YOU did that is the truly fascinating revelation here.
Seduction customers are arrogant little pricks who want the moon for nothing or next to nothing, they can’t get a woman to save their lives, yet they feel perfectly qualified to judge, using EMOTIONAL criteria, people who are teaching something that they admit they have no clue about, and could not possible know what was good or bad information, for if they did, they wouldn’t need the info in the first place.
Fact is, without all the hype, it doesn’t sell. Why is that: them or you?
>I really have to wonder whether TC and >Strauss have not grossly misled people >nto an exaggerated perception of their >uccess with women. Strauss mentions a few >pecific lays in “The Game” but he is >always very vague about his total number >and quality. TC won’t say a goddam thing >about his personal success level.
>Frankly, I think if these guys were >pulling much pussy they would say so with >more specific numbers. My best guess is TC >gets laid rarely if ever with low quality >women and Strauss probably got fewer than >20 women total (probably mostly 6s or 7s) >when he was active.
>I feel like an idiot for ever believing >people like TC and Strauss. Well…live >and learn… Shame on them now…Shame on >us if we still trust them tomorrow…
Have you see the “WTF?” episodes with Mystery Style and Herbal on youtube.com? These girls they are with are average.
All I’ve got to say is you can’t have a neutral list of the greatest PUAs if your in a business relationship with one of them (no 1!). TC im not a hater, but your obviously biased. Ross Jeffries and Tyler weren’t mentioned and we know how you feel about them friend. It seems like it was a list of your top ten pals. I think you said you would have rated one of them higher in the list if he would make the effort to meet you (Juggler?), and you moved Mystery up since you read the book. Still I guess that’s understandable, one guy making a list is bound to have biases. Maybe we should make it a little more democratic? Then no one could complain, and it would give the event more credibility. Not to mention the publicity on PUAs forums, blogs, and websites. Just an Idea.
Style just got fucked over by his “one true love” and usually what any man does after a bad break up is to put all their energy into something else, in styles case it was making money
personaly if style wanted to release this product off the bat no one would have a prob with it, Style himself dished out thousends of dollars for seminars, material… from all the gurus and combined all their material into his own style,
what makes him a little bitch is the way he talked about helping men, making the world a better place ext in his books, then he goes out and tells everyone the basics of PU which im sure has an effect on people just starting out in the game, i recon all the caned matiral is meant to do is help you get over your fear so after a while you “create” your own “material”
think all material should be free and shared, that way there would be so many “meathods” out there that no one would use one and the same, thats why i hope some one hacks styles ass and releases the meathod.
im sure style and mystery all have their own special skills that they dont reveal to anyone else and hey, so do we, but whats fucked is when you go around fucking someone elses material, remember when style talks shit about tyler? well you style are doing the same to all the newcomers, your basicaly telling every woman in the world what tryhards they all are for useing opinion openers and negs, cos believe me WOMEN KNOW WHATS GOING ON
I recon RSD is one of the only systems that teaches guys to be themselves, thats what my friends expirience is with them anyway, he is having success being natural and he’s getting his inspiration from RSD so im also not suprized that thunder wants to ruin them too, i mean if everyone was natural who would they sell their methods too?
Now the choice is yours, you can either keep dishing out more and more money for new and better running shoes, with each new pair perhaps increasing your comfort and speed a little but the constant change and having too ajust to the new shoes and marveling at the new shoes would constantly interupt you from accually running, or you can pick one pair of shoes and really wear them in and become a great runner and not just some guy with a cool pair of shoes.
i think the people on this blog, from looking at the posts, are smart and know the score and probably know how to pickup too but we all went a bit crazy at the start money wise i think??? or at lease bit torrent and material wise.
live and learn my friends, live and learn
btw style sucks
and who made style and mystery god anyway, they have other things to help them like magic tricks and status (and a bald head)
i dont know, many they are really good cos i havent seen them in action and i cant speak from the perspective of the girls who they pick up. but it doesnt make them god, i recon there are people on this blog who are better and could teach people better given the right circumstances (few years of learning some crazy attention grabing skill or being a writer with celebrity hook ups)
i think the real heros are guy who dont have money, who dont have any special super skills but can still lay 9′s and 10′s
anyway thats my 2 cents, and my 2 huge posts and im leaving this blog…
No he hasn’t. This whole internet seduction community was built around selling stuff to rubes in the first place by Ross Jeffries. Every “guru” to come along since has had some wares to hawk. Even Gunwitch said he wouldn’t go commercial and then changed his mind. Build a rep on the internet and the pickings are easy, so why not?
I think the two main things that are pissing everyone off is:
1. The shear audaciousness to want so much money so soon.
2. So many guys still stuck in the “canned material” mentality and want more of Styles silly openers to add the the PU folder on their hard drive.
Honestly, with all the material out there already how much more info do guys need to get laid or find a girlfriend?
The answer of course is none.
But the guys who crave seeing what Style has to offer are the ones who live behind their montiors.
Hi Neil
Thanks for creating the DVDs. I will put them on bit torrent with papa and tyler. I swear to GOD, I’ll go the seed the shit out of those DVDs. I’m also emailing lairs across America Thundershits stupid ebook. You will not make any money.
Here’s my take on it:
I have no opinion of this personally, but here are some cold facts or in the least very accurate asumptions.
1. A 4000 price will only attract those who have the dough to spill. The average well educated PUA wouldn’t throw down that type of money without a great deal of skepticism.
Therefore, the market is aimed for people who know nothing about the community and have a lot of dough. Agreed?
2.This will look great marketing wise because from a marketing perspective, what will look more incredible: the huge change that 375 uneducated AFC’s develop after seeing PUA material for the first time and the major changes they make or the less than big change from a bunch of experienced PUA’s?
Just like the marketing for this annihilation method, this “375″ guys are likely going to be used for a promotion. Now this might be a stretch but could it be for? a future book that is being written perhaps?
Let me make a prediction. 6 months from now, we will get tons of emails about the “amazing” changes these “375″ guys made in their lives. Shortly after, an amazing developpment occurs: Neil writes a book on pickup and it’s only 39.95! which won’t give away a lot of stuff and in the book is a promotion for guess what? the annihilation method or some other product which is like 400 dollars and simply introduces a NEWER and/or just as expensive product as the annihilation method is.
3.Neil doesn’t have to ask permission from his customers for the right to sell the copies of the footage of his seminars for less than the live participants paid, much like mystery or anyone else for that matter asks their customers if it’s ok to sell copies of their seminars on DVD for ess than the live customers paid. Maybe Neil did because he’s a nice guy.
Either way the price is a ploy. It forces that only a particular market gets it. I believe it’s a set up for something in the future for sure simply because if it was about the money, Neil could have easily charge less and made a whole lot more.
Let’s say he was reasonable on the price and made let’s say 500 dollars. I can guarantee you this that more than 375 people would buy it. Let’s say 3000 people bought it and would continue to sell more due to the time factor if their were no restraint on the amount of copies that were handed out. He would have made the same amount as he did now or more. Let be honest about ther number who would buy it. I would easily say 5000 – 10000 in the first fews days and that’s still being unrealistic. At 5000 that’s 2.5 million. At 10 k, 5 mil. He has 28k subscibers plus Thhunder cat, plus Mystery’s list. 10,000 would have bought it in no time. This is just my crazy take on this. Even at a $1000 the price would have been more reasonable and just add that into the equation. Anywho, Neil could have made a whole lot more.
4.I have just recently heard of these ‘final 5″ from these emails but has anyone heard from or about these guys in the community before that. If this stuff is so amazing why haven’t they risen to near legendary, or at least recognizable status among the community. Neil was Mystery’s student, Sensei lance too. David D learned from Ross adn these guys were good enough to grow and develop their own methods, reputations and eventual status in the community. It’s only been a year for these new final five so I will give them that.
5. what happens when a woman starts come onto you. She starts rubbing you, feeling you touching you, licks your earlobes and then tells you she’s a man…
Hey everbody! The annihilation method is finally here! Just wait for the count down…5, 4, 3, 2, 1: $4000!!!!!!
Once a carsaleman tried selling me a car that was exactly what I wanted, and then after hyping me up, told me it was three times what I told him I absolutely could spend. Hey it was an amazing car, but I wanted kick this guy in the nuts until blodd came out of his eyeballs.
They might have got 1.4 million from 375 guys, but if my marketing education is correct on this, Neil and possibly you too thundercat just pissed off 30-50,000 other guys who potentially wanted to buy the product.
Get viral marketing had great exxcution: The self disclosure, time restraint, the reciprocity/obligation from giving away that valuable ebook right before the product became avaialble, the anticipatory build up, the false show of reluctance of selling the information, exclusivity and secrecy(only those on the email list) and last but not least, the time restraint and scacity involved (only a limited number of people can get it and their is a count down). This has been one of the best short term marketing strategies I have ever come across in my entire life…but you pissed off a bunch of people who wanted to help you out and be your friend in the long term. WOOPS!
6.Here is the last thing
I want to mention:
I am paraphrasing but the ad said something like: this stuff is so powerful I am afraid if I let too many out it will lose it’s affectiveness. Only one for every major city. (I ask all 375 to meet together and comapre if they are all from a different city)
There are what, 50,000 on the subsciber lists who were contacted about this stuff? There are how many people in this world? How many women? Billions perhaps?
Wasn’t there mention of something about how this works whether they catch you or not? oh, and this method is so special you can tailor it to siut your personality?
Question: isn’t Mystery’s stuff powerful? Ross Jeffries? RSD? PU 101? Wouldn’t all the above change a newbie a whole lot after their first experience with their materials? Has all of these Master PUA’s methods lost effectiveness after they were brought out into the open? Can their method’s not be caterred to suit any persons personality? Could they not use this on cops that stop them for speeding or people they run into in jail, etc… just as amazingly? (Isn’t Mystrey and Jeffries and Hypnotica and many others on these DVDS too?)
Anywho, something for every single person out there to think about.
To Neil: Hey mate if you wanted our money, you simply just had to ask. A lot of us love and respect you. Some not so much. No biggy, but getting us all hyped up for something and then making it totally unavailable is hurtful on some level. For someone who believes in Karma, here some karma for you; you are going to get bitten in the butt for this one.
For all other PUA’s providing terrific material and seminars and services at prices all can afford, kuddos too you. You are the truly charitable ones out there and doing the greatest good for this community and all men alike. Thank you and God Bless.
ps. to everyone reading this, please post this everywhere you possible can. I want everyone to know about this and I want to see if my prediction is correct. It will save a lot people from crazy hype and instead give their money to those that truly provide a great service to others. Others who are out to make the most money in the quickest amount of time can fall by the wayside to the true champions of this art and science.
Thank you and God Bless.
Can you guy’s please stop all these retarded and juvenile refrences to George Lucas’s Star Wars movies. Everyone knows that Stan Lee’s Marvel Universe is where it’s really at!
Flame on bros.
I’ve spent the last ten years working hard and building a business, at the expense of my romantic life, I admit that. There’s and upside and a downside; the downside is that I haven’t been chasing pussy for the last ten years, so I’m a little behind in my game. The upside is that I only had to think for about a minute to decide if dropping $3800 on a sight-unseen package with Neil’s name attached was worth the risk. I decided it was, I take risks orders of magnitude bigger every day.
It seems to me money is a lot like women; they’re both a big deal when you don’t have enough.
As for his deceptive marketing, I suspect that the marketing for all these products are done by the same people, and that Style was doing it to research the internet marketing system. The recent emails haven’t been at all congruent with his prior persona, and I believe that is why.
So Neil uses his “#1 PUA ranking” to sell the world on his book, then uses his book to sell the community on his method. All the while, the guy who ranked him #1 turns out to be his marketing manager for the method he’s selling to the community.
Ray is right here, first think, who named Neil number 1 PUA…Mystery didn’t, it was his crown to give away…so..
Guys this shit was planned over 2 years ago.
its been that long in the making….
I have to say it was brillant, but…at what cost.
This community used to mean something….its gone to hell now. I mean look, everyone and his damn brother is saling their method now….just how many different ways can there be?
I see nothing new, just old ideas wrapped up in a different package, and something they find something in psy or the other fields and build a whole method around it, like this black mirror thing.
If these guys would go out sarging maybe they would learn something new to offer the community, instead of KJing.
But hats off to you Neil, you did fucking great man, you are very smart…but as far as honor and giving a shit about the community, I wouldn’t spit on your ass if you were on fire.
I bought the products too. I spent 100,000 in student loans for a college education. what’s anotehr 4,000 to learn something that WILL really help me…
enough about style,here is the old opener and it still works…it from top gun prety funny
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-743221572124943655&q=top+gun
But the real damage here is the damage that Neil and Thundercat have done to ALL the PUA Gurus. No one is going to trust these people anymore.
Don’t be so hard on Thundercat, he is salesman not a PUA. Marketing. Its Neil that you should be upset with.
He came into this community to just profit off it, thats all.
Look at that video of him on dutch tv, that woman, the host, really showed him for what he is…which isn’t a PUA.
He couldn’t improvise, all he could do is some bullshit canned routine. Is this all he knows or all the community knows?
Can’t anyone with a brain use it? The “world’s number 1 pua” on tv using a canned routine from ASF…laughing.
Can’t anyone see a woman and notice anything about her or her surrounding and use that to open her? Can we not think? Where is the satisfaction of bedding a girl using canned material?
If that is all there is then we are no better than a book of pickup lines.
How does one spend a year or two with Mystery and become better than him , when he has spent HIS LIFE studing pu?
That is what pisses me off more than anything, that anyone can call Neil the NUMBER 1 PUA…its utter bullshit, and anyone with half a brain knows it.
I willing to bet when this Annihilation Method starts to leak out all you will find is one “core” change and the rest is going to repackage material. Gezzz.
If you can show a PU on a dvd that is just earth shattering then why can’t you do it on tv?
Is it because on the DVD it is all rehearsed?..planned out?
I don’t know, but there is alot of shit going on that does not add up.
My lifelong advice to you guys is to study ASF from front to back, all the free material, then buy Mystery’s material if you want to be a PUA, or Ross Jeffries if you want to be a seductionist.
And if you do not know the difference between the two then I suggest you just forget about women.
Hey Thundy! I just read a post that says you’re behaving like me:
http://www.thundercatseductionlair.com/2006/05/the_annihilatio_1.html#c17872856
First of all I want to say to everyone, I TOLD YOU SO! And really TC, I’m so flattered you’ve become me that I feel like welcoming you back into the Speed Seduction camp. Yes it is true, I have to ban people when they say something I dislike and now that Thundy has proven himself to be just like me, in doing so become the ultimate hypocrite, you’re welcome to ban people all day if you like!
I TOLD YOU SO!
RJ
93/93
So_much_hate wrote:
Congratulations on building up your business. I realize how time consuming and energy draining it is and how that can impact your social and love life.
But looking at the huge volume of shi, sorry, material that comes with the AM package when will you be ready to apply it? Next year some time maybe?
Duuuuhhhhh….
Hey Thundy! I just read a post that says you’re behaving like me:
http://www.thundercatseductionlair.com/2006/05/the_annihilatio_1.html#c17872856
First of all I want to say to everyone, I TOLD YOU SO! And really TC, I’m so flattered you’ve become me that I feel like welcoming you back into the Speed Seduction camp. Yes it is true, I have to ban people when they say something I dislike and now that Thundy has proven himself to be just like me, in doing so become the ultimate hypocrite, you’re welcome to ban people all day if you like!
I TOLD YOU SO!
RJ
93/93
Ross, PLEASE ANSWER, Are you releasing anything new soon? If so can you briefly say anything about it?
I remember once on this board that you said you had something in the works that was really something NEW..not repacked old ideas…is this true?
Any dates on release?
By the way, Neil’s blueprint workbooks in the Annihilation Method are collected from his super-secret Mystery’s Lounge archive)
Hmmm, so the NUMBER 1 PUA still has to go get his ideas from his teacher…shaking head…………
I got no problem with you Thundy getting money from all this, you brought gossip to the community which was sorely needed.
Will Neil leave the community now, like he STATED, since hes made his wad?….damn I hope he leaves.
Where’s all this anger coming from? Personally, I did feel insulted by the marketing. Anyone who has read Influence by R. Cialdini (as has been recommended by pretty well every PUA Guru)could see the crass manipuation attempts from a mile away. But why should we be offended by crass manipulation attempts? Isn’t that what PU routines are all about – plug in formulaic communication to produce specific results? I wonder if this feeling of being manipulated is why most women cringe at the idea of men learning to run this stuff. I don’t know.
I don’t think there’s any reason to be upset about anyone selling anything for what they can get for it. It’s a free market economy for chrissakes – let ‘em take their shot. But what is really valuable – the deconstruction of social interaction (And that work was done first and best by Mystery the crazy-ass genius)to the benefit of those of us who were too in our own heads to get it growing up, is priceless. Although I sometimes feel uneasy with the manipulative nature of PU, I am very grateful to have stumbled upon Neil’s writing of Mystery’s (and others) teaching and his analysis, elaboration and innovation on same.
Instead of grumbling about guys who are trying to make a buck (aren’t we all), why not just re-write the opinion openers (I know not everyone can write, but here’s the formula: Salutation / False Time Constraint/ Hook Question/ Response/ Background Story/ Hook Question/ Response/ Transition to Next Routine) using your own material and evaluate the results. Adopt, (for bantering purposes) a cheeky, playfully-teasing demeanor, watch your body-language (just stand up straight and relax) tell the story that makes your buddies AND your auntie laugh, make friends with the body (Credit, E Hemmingway in Summer People)and you’re bound to have at least a decent conversation with a beautiful woman. And you won’t get hurt (much) and you’ll gain more confidence (I have).
But I would really love to see what new stuff Neil’s come up with about calibrating responses, innergame, etc. Did anyone hear what he said on that new disc RSD put out – Surviving The Game? “Do the thing that scares you”. Fuck, that is a wonderful point of view. Shit like that is priceless. I wish I could go to the seminar but with two kids to look after the money has to go elsewhere. I bet that shit could save a guy some time and trial and error though. Ah well, best of luck to Style and all of you who are trying to learn how to live more fully while we’ve got the chance.
Peace.
Where’s all this anger coming from? Personally, I did feel insulted by the marketing. Anyone who has read Influence by R. Cialdini (as has been recommended by pretty well every PUA Guru)could see the crass manipuation attempts from a mile away. But why should we be offended by crass manipulation attempts? Isn’t that what PU routines are all about – plug in formulaic communication to produce specific results? I wonder if this feeling of being manipulated is why most women cringe at the idea of men learning to run this stuff. I don’t know.
Its not anger, its disgust.
What if all this was planned from the beginning, back two years ago when he hooked up with Mystery?
Now maybe thats not, maybe it is, personally and this is only my opinion, I think it was. Would that piss you off?
I just don’t get how Style could be A number 1 in 2 years. History in this area states its not possible. So therefore, scam comes to mind.
Look at the videos, is that the actions of the WORLDS greatest PUA?
I’m going to shutup about this now, makes no damn difference anymore. This community has gone to hell anyway.
I’m just going to set back and see what the next major scam is.
Mystery if you went along with this….well lets just say I used to have a GREAT deal of RESPECT and ADMIRATION for you. I still think you are the GREATEST PUA, no bald whiny voiced runt with two years service can ever take that away from you.
Now I’m even suspicious of all the RSD criticizm. The new question of the day is, “What’s TC’s REAL motivation?” Credibility… lost entirely.
Hmmmm….that does make you wonder about RSD a little doesn’t it? Remember that IM conversation that Ray posted in his I’m going to lose another lawsuit complaint?
Could there possibly be an attempt to corner the market? Mnnnnn…I doublt it. It would be an enormous undertaking. Most likly doomed to failure.
Mainly because of the foundation of PU, which is nlp, indirect hypnosis, and human behaviour.
Naw….couldn’t be. Neil doesn’t have the respect that would enable him to do that.
Mystery is the only one with enough respect to pull that off, Ross was the one at one time, but something happened there that caused everyone to leave his side.
You know in a way, RJ is the cause of all this. If he would not have ran everyone off you wouldn’t have all these splinter groups…was Tom’s freindship worth all that?…a man that could only make it off YOUR shirttail?
Let’s see what $3779 could have bought you elsewhere….
From Badboy, 3 workshops
From RSD, 2 bootcamps and a seminar
From Mystery, 1 gold level special bootcamp
From Style, 1 seminar and a bunch of DVD’s/CD’s/workbooks
You know, I appreciate that live small group teaching is a bit different, but at least this annihilation method stuff is something you can keep refering back to over the long journey (and it will be LONG!) while you’re getting your skills to a level you’re happy with.
All this anger about the price (and really, that’s what it’s about…..if the package cost $500 no one would be complaining at all) seems pretty amusing to me. Noone’s bitching about Mystery charging that much for one weekend. It’s business.
Still, I can understand that if you really want something, and you can’t afford it, it’s bound to elicit an emotional response. In that sense, I sympathise with you guys.
Aren’t all of these conspiracy theories silly? Mystery broke it down and Style improved on it (wrote routines, innovations like FTC, inner-game). Style wrote an article. Then he wrote a book. EVERYONE else and his brother offered their own take on it (RSD and some more ethical ones like PU101 CEIC, etc.) So Style decided to do his own, but make it the best. He enlisted TC to help market it (Strauss is a writer and doesn’t have time to do all the nuts and bolts of ad copy, etc. You can SMELL the difference between what he’s written and what TC did). And maybe that is where he alienated folks. Heavy handed marketing is irritating where it concerns laundry detergent. Where something as intimate as life advice from someone whom you respect is concerned it’s somewhat more than irritating to feel condescended or pandered to. But, no big deal. Anyway, it’s funny to me that anyone is surprised Strauss managed to go so far with it in just two years. He’s a WRITER for The Fucking New York Times and Rolling Stone. That’s living by your wits in a insanely competitive market that requires hard work, dedication, intelligence and luck.
In response to Hey (C. Powles). You rock. But I don’t buy or sell and file-sharing isn’t illegal in my ountry. Neither is going to the library. Cut me a break.
Ross
Why don’t you put out a new course teaching all the forbiddened patterns? The ones you don’t share? and finish DC2000?
You have any idea what you could make if you put out all the secret stuff?
Or have you retired like everyone says? Have you?
WOW THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING OF A LARGER MARKETING CAMPAIGN. ROCK ON TC!!
I think you are right. Right now this is being talked about all over the net. How almost 1.5 million was made in a day with a nothing but an information product.
They will not stop there, they’ll go after the holy grail.
Don’t be surprised in a few years if you don’t see:
10,000 for a pick-up product ending up with 5 million.
Mark my words…………
“Where’s all this anger coming from?”
Why is it spun negatively as ANGER whenever someone comments on anything commercial around here? Why do others get so ANGRY when an anti-commercial environment like the internet (at least in places where people don’t have to pay for advertising, like message posts) doesn’t welcome profiteering with open arms?
“I’m here to help” and “I need to earn a living” are NOT compatible statements. You might help someone in the course of earning a living, but that’s what you’re being paid to do. Information products are not like manufactured products in that two competing products can be 180 degrees opposite each other, with one leading to great success, and the other to failure. Worse yet, guys are staking their LOVE LIVES on this, and gurus are acting like know-it-alls.
“Personally, I did feel insulted by the marketing. Anyone who has read Influence by R. Cialdini (as has been recommended by pretty well every PUA Guru)could see the crass manipuation attempts from a mile away. But why should we be offended by crass manipulation attempts? Isn’t that what PU routines are all about – plug in formulaic communication to produce specific results? I wonder if this feeling of being manipulated is why most women cringe at the idea of men learning to run this stuff. I don’t know.”
How do you run game on a woman who just found out she was gamed? That’s anti-player, and it’s easy as hell to do because all you have to do is rely on the player to cheat on her or otherwise disappoint her, and do NOTHING. Meanwhile, you pursue other women of course.
“I don’t think there’s any reason to be upset about anyone selling anything for what they can get for it.”
Yet a very reliable “hive” of the same internet “buzzers” practically goes ballistic at the idea that I provide a lifetime of writing (and any multimedia in the future) for $19.95. That’s TWENTY DOLLARS, or less than you paid for “The Game.” I call it BUY THE AUTHOR, and it’s the ideal setup for the consumer, because if the theory changes, the readers don’t get billed when I update. I have published EIGHT books on this topic in the last seven or so years, and six of them are free. One is off the market and replaced by another free book.
Neil’s book sold about 200,000 copies so far. If I got that audience at $20.00 a pop, that would be FOUR MILLION BUCKS. One recommendation from Oprah would net that in a day, btw. The internet market just isn’t big enough yet, so what you get are gurus hard-selling a niche audience and milking it for everything they have. I thought the internet would have been bigger by now, but it’s a jungle that hasn’t totally crossed over yet.
I saw Formhandle bragging about having 20,000 users. Wow: Tom Leykis has what, EIGHT MILLION listeners? THAT is the audience I want. This is just the preseason, but it is still important because as we’ve seen with Neil and Mystery, mainstream media fuels the internet a great deal.
If your audience is small, you need to sell expensive ads to sustain publication a lot more than if it’s huge. Neil can get by with book rights and movie rights, etc., but this raises other questions. It costs a lot to live in LA, and if you figure a 15 percent royalty at $30 a book (generous), that’s $4.50 a book or so, MINUS promotional costs, taxes, agent fees, and lifestyle. How long does $1 million go in LA? For the movie rights, say he gets another $3 million. Taxes, agents, lifestyle, and maybe some play time after years of hard work, and it’s back to the grind.
Neil has to keep producing to support his LA/Globetrotting lifestyle. He’s in a position where people think he’s rich and famous and if he ever weren’t, well, ask Courtney Love what her problems were like and why she turned to Neil. If anything, Project Hollywood’s greatest self-help accomplishment was prepping Courtney for her Tonight Show appearance, a classic example of frame control. The humble-and-troubled-yet-still-feisty personality she displayed won back a lot of her fans.
Neil, however, could easily get a high-paying column or a radio or even a TV show, so I doubt he’s hurting for cash. He just needs a lot of it to live as he does.
“It’s a free market economy for chrissakes – let ‘em take their shot. But what is really valuable – the deconstruction of social interaction (And that work was done first and best by Mystery the crazy-ass genius)”
It wasn’t just Mystery, but a collection of men from 1994-1998 on boards like AOL and Prodigy, plus a few e-mail lists and USENET groups who were speaking the truth. On Prodigy around 1995, a number of guys just started mouthing off about how all the nice-guy stuff was bullshit, and they migrated to AOL in 1996, but in each case they wound up censored, so they landed on USENET.
I was teaching pivoting to guys on AOL from 1996 onward. If anything, the pivot is more powerful for the AFC because the player has women around him naturally, and the AFC finally learns how to “takeaway” his affection for the pivot, even if for different reasons than he should.
“to the benefit of those of us who were too in our own heads to get it growing up, is priceless. Although I sometimes feel uneasy with the manipulative nature of PU, I am very grateful to have stumbled upon Neil’s writing of Mystery’s (and others) teaching and his analysis, elaboration and innovation on same.”
Do you defend every author the way you do Neil and Mystery? Usually the “leave the commercial guy alone” equates to “leave MY FAVORITE commercial guy alone.” Or they say “go on with your life” but what if they go on writing their books. You can’t go giving a free pass to a select few gurus and then complain when they have the ability to charge a fortune because they are the only brand names that are building up due to that pass.
“Instead of grumbling about guys who are trying to make a buck (aren’t we all),”
Is it all GUYS who are trying to make a buck, or all “guys named Neil and Mystery who are trying to make a buck?”
” why not just re-write the opinion openers (I know not everyone can write, but here’s the formula: Salutation / False Time Constraint/ Hook Question/ Response/ Background Story/ Hook Question/ Response/ Transition to Next Routine) using your own material and evaluate the results. Adopt, (for bantering purposes) a cheeky, playfully-teasing demeanor, watch your body-language (just stand up straight and relax) tell the story that makes your buddies AND your auntie laugh, make friends with the body (Credit, E Hemmingway in Summer People)and you’re bound to have at least a decent conversation with a beautiful woman. And you won’t get hurt (much) and you’ll gain more confidence (I have).”
AFCs have “decent conversations” with beautiful women all the time. The goal is to FUCK them. Further, can you be SO confident that there is not a better way to get a better woman? Is this the pinnacle of seduction theory? In chess, where theory is recorded with amazing precision throughout history, no one would even dream to claim that their best moves today would win tomorrow.
Even if women don’t change, how your rival males are treating those women is changing. If the guy who hit on her before you got to the bar ran your game and took her home, she will not be sitting there for you, and you will not appear unique even if she is.
Just like when AIDS hit, you could still find unprotected sex with women you just met, but the level of intelligence of the person you found it with plummeted (no offense to the players who do this today).
“But I would really love to see what new stuff Neil’s come up with about calibrating responses, innergame, etc. Did anyone hear what he said on that new disc RSD put out – Surviving The Game? “Do the thing that scares you”. Fuck, that is a wonderful point of view.
So he’s saying to push the envelope, expand your boundaries. I’m not surprised that he said it, but am a bit surprised by your orgasmic response to his having said it.
“Shit like that is priceless. I wish I could go to the seminar but with two kids to look after the money has to go elsewhere.”
The game has to go elsewhere too. Where’s the mom?
“I bet that shit could save a guy some time and trial and error though.”
Because you are 100 percent sure that it will continue to work into the future better than 100 percent of competing products out there, no matter who produces what, at what price?
“Ah well, best of luck to Style and all of you who are trying to learn how to live more fully while we’ve got the chance.”
Love the generalities: “live more fully” or “be positive.” These terms are never defined, like being a “better man.” Better at WHAT?
If the public demanded things like one-price-for-life (I call it Buy The Author), or actually factored price into their purchasing decisions rather than reacting to snob appeal, and if they stopped looking for the best sales pitch and instead focused on the best free stuff they could find (a true way to sample a paid product), they wouldn’t get into situations where they demand to be seduced by marketing and then complain when someone like Style does it.
I am literally ON STRIKE for now. I will not publish ANYTHING new indefinitely. No way am I having any of my powerful new ideas go anywhere, because I don’t have a money train paying me off if I do. Why should I care anyway, if I can walk into a strip club and pluck a dancer out of there with nothing more than a $20 bill for the evening out, including two large drinks? The reason I stress strip club game is that it’s a good last resort for guys who are older (like me), not great looking anymore (like me), not rich (like me), and who don’t really feel like playing the approach game (like me). It doesn’t mean I don’t have game elsewhere, but it does create a sure thing that is a good foundation for confidence building.
I’ve got anti-player shit that can knock any “PUA” out of the water in minutes, especially if he’s not around and his slut mentions the “great guy” she just met. People think you’re insulting her as a seduction attempt, but it doesn’t work that way. Simple FRAME CONTROL sets it up so SHE is the one complaining about HER love life, and you just run game that extends from that. Only difference is if you let her down in the future, you’re kind of fucked, so being a man of your word helps (ah, no wonder so many guys hate this).
Try an experiment: tell a guru you’ll spend only $100 for everything he’s every written and produced in multimedia (in downloadable format so it costs nothing to distribute), and not a cent more, and make him include everything in the future. That takes away the product-whoring and gives an incentive for them to really stay current (to attract new customers) and to fix your problems from the get-go (for positive testimonials). Oh, and guys who have already paid can be used as a base for advertising of unrelated products, so it’s win-win-win. With me, it’s not even $100, but $19.95. For LIFE. Everything not requiring personal time is included (digitally). Even if you don’t like my writing, the business model is one that any guru could adopt.
Or you guys can pretend there are only six gurus on the internet and send thousands of dollars to each of them. Your choice.
Congrats Neil!
Not only did you clear $1 Million, but now you have all these haters who are going to be watching, talking, and critiquing your every move.
BTW, Neil drop Thundercat as fast as possible. He is already taking credit for YOUR product.
$1.4 million?!? That’s, what, one nice house?
Grow up guys. Envy is NOT a virtue.
He’s giving any profits to charity you idiots………z
No. He’s giving any profits AFTER costs and “percentages” to charity. Percentages usually mean profits and can be anything from 1% profit to 95% profit. Always a good idea to read the fucking fine print before you start calling people idiots. That said, once again, what’s wrong with a guy trying to make a buck?
Ray Gordon (if that’s who you are and I highly doubt it), cry me a river. Deliver a better product at a more competitive price and you wont have defend yourself on blog boards.
To all you lame asses that begrudge Neil and TC their success and lifestyle:
First of all you have no lives. Your life consists of looking at the other guy’s steak, because you think it’s bigger than yours, and because you can’t bear to look at your own lives.
Who gives a flying rats ass how much Style is charging for AM? It’s probably worth $20,000 or more in my book. And that pays for only 20 high class bitches, which is pretty fair in my book.
Both Style and TC worked pretty hard for all they have, but your little reptilian pea brains just can’t get around that, and God forbid if you actually had to work for anything yourself.
And you’re a bunch of thieves as well…..cause you torrent all the stuff you’re too cheap to buy, because you think you’re ‘ENTITLED’. And you’re cowardly dickless thief bitches at that, cause the only way you’d steal is if you can do it sitting in front of your computer where nobody can see.
You are just a bunch of turds swimming in the pathetic toilet bowl you call your life, screaming up ‘It’s not fair!’….Mommy, Daddy…he did this…and he did that……..z
Hi Ray Gordon….I like your style, so I just ordered your stuff. I gotta tell ya though….lots of hoops to jump through to pay for it………lol………z
How bout all you dickless wonders actually register before you post under those idotic aliases………shills indeed!…..lol…..z
i think thos guys who buyed the anhiliatain methode will probably be pleased
i mean there sure looks leik a lot of stuff for ur money
plus stile is the #no 1 @ PU
.
game on bros
Ray, thanks for taking the time to respond to my earlier post and for leaving it up even though it was critical of you and Neil. However, your answers were poorly constructed and illogical, for the most part you just ignored my questions and concerns and most importantly you ignored my main question which was, why did Neil repeatedly lie to us? Notice that Ray never once tried to refute the fact that Neil’s marketing campaign was full of lies, I have to give you credit for that Ray because it is irrefutable that he lied repeatedly.
When I said the main problem most people had with all this was the repeated and blatant lies, you said
“You sounds like an HB10 whining about falling for a player trick”
How does that answer my concern, why don’t you actually address the concern instead of saying a meaningless sentence like that? By completely ignoring my concern are you saying that it is acceptable for Neil to blatantly lie repeatedly to us?
When I said
“ThunderCat, I’m not a “hater”, before all this I enjoyed seeing Neil be successful and I was looking forward to him releasing his products. I liked Neil and tried to give him the benefit of the doubt as long as I could.”
Your response was -
“Then again, if an HB10 sees her boyfriend freak out at some AFC guy, the boyfriend can play it off like the AFC is some unpopular loser, and that she’s joining some kind of superior, exclusive club if she chooses him instead. Who is the problem here: them or you?
Once again this in no way responds to my question and issues that I brought up. And what on earth are you talking about when you say “who is the problem here: them or you? So please explain to me your implication that I am the problem? My whole basic point was I don’t appreciate being lied to repeatedly by Neil and because of his lies I don’t trust him anymore. How does that make me the problem?
Your closing statement was-
Fact is, without all the hype, it doesn’t sell. Why is that: them or you?
Once again you completely miss or ignore my point and then try to blame me again for Neil’s lies. I’m not criticizing Neil for using hype, I know that hype works and I have no problem with it, but Neil already had all the hype he needed based on his reputation, his book, his fame etc., it’s just basic human nature that people respond to those things. Hype and pure lies aren’t the same thing however. He had the hype already, he should have just used that hype and been honest and he still would have made a ton of money and still had his integrity and his good name. Of course there would have been some haters that still would be pissed but it would be nothing like the overall bad will towards him he has created in the community.
I won’t even address your other answers, they lacked any real logic or relevance to the concerns that I raised. I’m trying to be polite Ray but your utter lack of understanding of the principles of logical debate is astounding.
Just please answer this one unaswered question that was the main point of my previous post.
WHY DID NEIL THINK IT WAS ACCEPTABLE TO LIE TO US AND DO YOU THINK IT WAS OKAY TO DO THIS?
Please stick to this point and don’t use an irrelevant example involving and HB10 and her boyfriend. This is a question about LIFE and your values, not about pickup.