Mystery On “ASF Philosophy”
August 31, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
In my post called "Where ASF Philosophy Went Wrong," I talked about how I don’t agree with the Fake It ’till you Make It mentality. Well, it seems the world’s most well known pick-up artist Mystery doesn’t agree! He wrote a rather long and well-thought out counter argument which I thought deserved it’s own thread.
Mystery writes:
I respectfully disagree. Id also like to point out that the logic
presented is irrational – a common error those who do not adopt the
scientific method may make. If you dont already see the break in logic
then read The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan, chapter 17: The Balony
Detection Kit. Read it and find out for yourself why the above post is
‘absurd’.Let me take a moment, as a PUA who everyone knows smokes all others
(open challenges to all as usual – Im slotted to challenge the winner
of the Hypnotica vs. Formhandle match when they have time to schedule a
get together – all for fun), to explain INDIRECT and FAKE IT TIL YOU
MAKE IT.First, on to indirect.
The indirect approach has little to do with inner game and handling fear. Either way, direct or indirect, we fear the approach.
the reason we go in indirect is so that we do not convey interest in
the target and have her friends cockblock and protect her from you. the
idea is to FIRST demonstrate a higher value (DHV) BEFORE we IOI. Just
walking up and talking DIRECTLY to the target is an IOI. the friends
feel threatened and pull her away. Using the indirect approach has
little to do with confidence. its not an inner game tactic but instead
a massively field tested tactical OUTER GAME concept. You initiate a
chat with the entire group (not just to the target) while NEGGING the
target to DISARM the friends from thinking you are an immediate
potential suitor (you dont know who the boyfriend is or who the brother
is – afterall we use indirect approach tactics on GROUPS of people -
hardly a COWARDLY action). Negging the target to disarm the others buys
you time to DHV in front of the target. The DHV spikes in your stories
will not appear to be BRAGGART in nature this way because you already
disqualified yourself before the target or her friends start to. In
fact, its so counter-intuitive, I understand how certain PUA wannabes
who dont interact with other PUAs (Stephane as I recall was the odd
anti-social barefoot and no shirt guy at the LA DYD seminar – while
everyone else wore clothes appropriately for a seminar – whats the word
for negative peacocking? clowning?) will lock themselves out of
adopting massively field tested principles. Indirect isnt easy. But one
thing is certain (as a man to DEMONSTRATES it in field duirng bootcamp
- and yes, as usual, I was successful in getting #s every night in
front of my students — and on last night’s occasion … um, more),
INDIRECT approach game delivers the fucking goods.Perhaps Stephane and I can compare girls, current or historic. Who’s
girls are hotter. Who’s had more hot girls. Who can captivate a group
and befriend others. Perhaps we can compare our leadership social
circles. But before we do this, why not SEE who these people look like
in front of others.Perhaps you will watch the difference between Stephane and I
speaking in front of 130 people and cameras if you see us both speak on
the Cliff’s List Seminar DVD. Decide for yourself. You can train in the
direct approach (which limits you to approach SINGLES only) and look
like Stephane or train in the indirect approach and peacocking aside,
look like Mystery.I believe the indirect approach is far more versatile because it
allows you to approach large groups, with men in them (women of beauty
are rarely found alone – especially supermodels) and DHV BEFORE you IOI.There are 3 attraction switches that make must be triggered in order to DHV:
1. proof you are pre-selected by other women
2. proof you are the leader of men
3. proof you protect and defend your loved ones and are loyal to themIf you can convey this BEFORE you give IOIs then you will GET IOIs before you GIVE THEM.
attraction must occur BEFORE she will want to build comfort with
you. Imagine how easy it is to build comfort with a girl if she is
attracted to you FIRST.DIRECT = singles only = hope the confidence in going direct is enough to build attraction = fool’s mate
INDIRECT = great for groups and women of PARTICULAR BEAUTY (you HAVE
seen my ex-gfs right?) = befriend the friends FIRST and be given the
opportunity to repeatedly trigger the 3 attraction switches that ALL
TRIBAL LEADERS trigger and then give IOIs only AFTER you get them from
the girl.To decide for yourself which is right for you, watch the Cliff’s
List DVD and judge for yourself. Which principle builds a more
charismatic personality?The barefoot and shirtless thing didnt exactly work to build rapport
with anyone but that doesnt mean it doesnt have its place. If I were
singing in front of 60,000 perhaps it would work – in fact, I plan on
doing this in the future. But doing that and bringing a half naked girl
(which may have worked if her objective replication value were perhaps
higher – no disrespect to her Im sure she’s a great girl despite her
bloated pelvis – but it was in THAT particular social scenario – um,
fuckin’ weird dude haa) only alienates. Certainly I brought my GF too,
but I kept her dressed and we brought our puppy so people could see she
and I were easily approachable. You dont want to alienate the very
people you are trying to help afterall. group dynamics include
conducting seminars too. Maybe those at the LA DYD event or Montreal
event will speak up and offer their first person accounts on meeting
Stephane (or seeing how people avoided him) and I.We are here to survive and replicate. to S & R. sure we want to
get the girls S&R value to improve our chances. yes we want
something from her (S&R value). but wouldnt it just make more sense
to NOT go for her value and try to take take take (direct) and instead
give give give by demonstrating higher value to her and her friends
FIRST? Its ultimately the woman’s choice. if she sees your value FIRST,
then she will try to align with YOU. add in NEGs to disqualify yourself
from being a potential suitor at the begining and you not only keep
your approach form looking like you WANT SOMETHING (like a beggar) from
HER, but you structure the challenge for her to attempt to win YOUR
S&R value for HER.Im a proponent of INDIRECT GROUP APPROACH THEORY because it clearly
delivers the goods. So is Style – who Thundercat rated as #1 in the
community. And Toecutter. And TD. The guys who are publically known for
being good all use indirect group theory. not because they are scared
for sure. but because it solves real world infield problems. Is it a
coincidence that the best PUAs use indirect? Is it a coincidence that
the best PUAs dont alienate and maike others avoid them? Is it a
coincidence that ALL our girls have a higher R value?I would like Stephane to see that indirect solves more problems
infield … or rather, it keeps problems from even appearing … like
alienating the friends, telegraphing too much interest on a 10 who gets
all the attention she needs, making 100s of people avoid you or want to
meet you, and building a rep as a guy who hits on every girl (to go
direct is to give IOIs right away – if she shoots you down because you
havent DHV’d first anyways, you get a bad reputation and lower your
chances of proving you are pre-selected when those girls tell their
peers they said no to you).do I use direct? certainly. on singles. but only after I have worked
an adjacent set in an effort to prove I am pre-selected. See, opening
one set and then another and merging them together triggers
pre-selection and build a jealousy plotline. why do we need this? well,
a woman may not KNOW she is attracted until she is surprised to find
out she is jealousy and FEELS the surprising fear of potential loss of
you to another girl. The J-plotline is injected into C1, the first
phase of the comfort building stage usually (or C2 is you cant merge
sets due to lack of targets in a given environment).As for the FAKE IT TIL YOU MAKE IT thing, again, the logic fallacy
is appropriately found in The Balony Detection Kit chapter of Sagan’s
book. I live in a world of "ACT AS IF …"I act as IF Im a ladies man. And guess what. If you arent a ladies
man but you act as IF you are (and trigger the pre-selection attraction
switch by having women from previous sets on your arms or having
stories with pre-selection triggering DHV spikes embedded into those
stories), then they will assume you ARE a ladies man and will treat you
like one – by trying to align with you and get some of that S&R
value all those girls hanging around you prove you must have. It helps
(trust me).Im now going to act as IF … Im hungry. Yoshinoya I dont care what
you say kicks ass. oooh one BETTER! Thundercat Im in LA. Im hankering
for a steak. Im gonna call you now.Love !Mystery
I guess I’ll just have to agree to disagree with Mystery on this one. (by the way, still waiting for your call, Mystery)
Albertwaf on 
Donaldguend on 
Howardjic on 
vivodvladimirKax on 
Henrieta Manzanares from Indianapolis was seeking split thesis statement
Myra Minehan stumbled upon the resolution to a research question split thesis statement
proposal for mba dissertation
annie dillard the chase thesis
architecture school coursework
[url=https://essayssolution.com/]essay rewriter[/url]
[url=https://essaytyperhelp.com/]argumentative essay[/url]
[url=https://custompaperwritingservices.com/]buy essay online[/url]
[url=https://theessayswriters.com/]doing my best to do good essay[/url]
[url=https://thecardboard.org/boardnew/showthread.php?tid=54497]sociology dissertation conclusion[/url] be1ecb0
Luz Golomb from Mesquite was searching for dissertation services in uk support
Betsy Carriker discovered the solution to a search question dissertation services in uk support
ben buchler thesis
woodrow wilson national fellowship foundation dissertation fellowships
psychology essay homework help online free
a thesis is closest in meaning to a(n)
[url=https://essayssolution.com/]paper writing service[/url]
[url=https://englishessayhelp.com/]best essay writing service[/url]
[url=https://payforanessaysonline.com/]buy essays online[/url]
[url=http://promotion-wars.upw-wrestling.com/thread-40968-post-507440.html#pid507440]qualitative dissertations examples[/url] 4900be1
Tiffie Bartkowiak from Fargo was searching for free economics dissertations
Coleen Podeszwa stumbled upon the resolution to a research question free economics dissertations
hardcover thesis uitm
thesis topics in mba finance
sujets de dissertations sur le romantisme
[url=https://theessayswriters.com/]write my essay 4 me[/url]
[url=https://ouressays.com/]buy research paper online[/url]
[url=https://forum.glp-berg.de/showthread.php?tid=307&pid=2840#pid2840]small business entrepreneur dissertations[/url] 01e7fa9
Lory Luffy from Naperville was searching for touching spirit bear thesis
Lebbie Stpaul uncovered the response to an inquiry touching spirit bear thesis
magical realism thesis
postgraduate coursework programs
article rewriter for mac
new topics for m.ed dissertation
[url=https://domyhomeworkformecheap.com/]resume writing services[/url]
[url=https://englishessayhelp.com/]write my essays[/url]
[url=https://payforanessaysonline.com/]pay to do my essay[/url]
[url=http://11.allad.ge/thread-3043-post-79482.html#pid79482]sample thesis statement for speech[/url] 4900be1
Melisa Guith from Las Cruces was on the hunt for resume writing services sf
Doti Swabe stumbled upon the resolution to a research question resume writing services sf
thesis statement for wuthering heights
m phil dissertation topics in english
[url=https://essaytyperhelp.com/]high school essay writing help[/url]
[url=https://domycollegehomeworkforme.com/]pay for an essay[/url]
[url=https://topswritingservices.com/]writing services for college papers[/url]
[url=http://forum.plitv.tv/index.php?topic=3784.new#new]masters thesis or masters thesis[/url] 1aed74_
Fred Retchless from Lakewood was on the hunt for thesis format american journal obstetrics gynecology
Ardith Stoica located the reply to a search question thesis format american journal obstetrics gynecology
thesis statement comparing two authors
essay on service delivery in south africa
[url=https://argumentativethesis.com/]writing paper help[/url]
[url=https://homeworkcourseworkhelps.com/]coursework help[/url]
[url=https://custompaperwritingservices.com/]dltk custom writing paper[/url]
[url=https://dissertationwritingtops.com/]writing dissertation service[/url]
[url=https://battletech-mercenaries.com/merc-net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9740&p=61211#p61211]interesting topics for architecture thesis[/url] cb0ddc0
Adria Ruscitti from Augusta was in search of organizational culture master thesis
Andree Lashua discovered the solution to a search question organizational culture master thesis
introduction dissertation sur le cid
martin luther king doctoral dissertation
education dissertation funding
writing a proper thesis
[url=https://custompaperwritingservices.com/]college paper writing services[/url]
[url=https://topswritingservices.com/]argumentative essay topics[/url]
[url=https://domyhomeworkformecheap.com/]do my accounting homework[/url]
[url=https://essayssolution.com/]essay writer reviews[/url]
[url=https://idealbeauty.kz/news/aleksandr-coy-tehnika-zhenskih-strizhek-mashinkoy?page=15178#comment-875583]help with essay titles[/url] 1ecb0dd
Marina Desouza from Plano was in search of does buying essays work
Kerry Kamman came across the answer to a search query does buying essays work
professional writers for thesis
m tech project thesis pdf
marxist dialectic thesis
sample thesis survey cover letter
[url=https://custompaperwritingservices.com/]resume writing services[/url]
[url=https://ouressays.com/]buy an essays[/url]
[url=https://domycollegehomeworkforme.com/]pay someone to do my math homework[/url]
[url=https://mercedes-world.com/maybach/mercedes-maybach-s-class-take-a-seat/comment-page-19#comment-69865]i dedicate this dissertation to my parents[/url] c9b1aed
Patsy Arbuckle from Raleigh was searching for custom essay and dissertation writing service it paper
Catherine Zotos stumbled upon the resolution to a research question custom essay and dissertation writing service it paper
writing a thesis statement in elementary school
research paper and thesis
[url=https://domycollegehomeworkforme.com/]essay writing service[/url]
[url=https://essayssolution.com/]can you write my essay[/url]
[url=https://payforanessaysonline.com/]pay to write papers[/url]
[url=https://dissertationwritingtops.com/]argumentative essay[/url]
[url=https://xn--80akbkalsbeeafq6a6b2f.xn--p1ai/blogs/s1_blog_4/8.php?commentId=5051#5051]fermilab thesis 2008 15[/url] 1ecb0dd
Phillie Wittekind from Bradenton was seeking undergraduate english dissertation examples
Alysa Milfort came across the answer to a search query undergraduate english dissertation examples
customized writing practice sheets
dissertation on youth of india
ap us history thesis paragraph
substrate concentration coursework
[url=https://writingpaperforme.com/]writing my paper for me[/url]
[url=https://englishessayhelp.com/]how to write an argumentative essay[/url]
[url=https://homeworkcourseworkhelps.com/]custom coursework[/url]
[url=https://dissertationwritingtops.com/]essays writers[/url]
[url=https://forum.plitv.tv/index.php?topic=3523.new#new]e learning phd thesis download[/url] 01e7fa9
Corny Niss from Reading was on the hunt for examples of reflective essay thesis
Catie Harre located the reply to a search question examples of reflective essay thesis
thesis on abusive relationships
thesis of marketing communication
dissertation timeline schedule
[url=https://writingpaperforme.com/]write my research paper[/url]
[url=https://essayssolution.com/]essay writing service[/url]
[url=https://bominfo.id/2021/01/06/sandbox-to-try-out-the-code-written-in-almost-all-languages/#comment-69689]dissertation printing and binding cardiff[/url] 0ec9b1a
Maddalena Skone from Indianapolis was searching for design and technology coursework graphics
Cheryl Mancell stumbled upon the resolution to a research question design and technology coursework graphics
thesis statement examples of mice and men
thesis dissertation relevance of this approach
[url=https://dissertationwritingtops.com/]write my essay[/url]
[url=https://essayservicehelp.com/]best essay writing service reviews[/url]
[url=https://thecardboard.org/boardnew/showthread.php?tid=43008]windows 7 dvd writing service[/url] d77_36c
Rosmunda Igus from Santa Clarita was trying to find customized paper food containers
Kalila Raju stumbled upon the resolution to a research question customized paper food containers
a2 biology coursework layout
room 101 ideas coursework
topic for argumentative essay thesis statement
[url=https://writingpaperforme.com/]professional essay writers[/url]
[url=https://writeadissertation.com/]essay writings[/url]
[url=https://essayssolution.com/]writing paper[/url]
[url=https://koreanstudies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=51376#p51376]thesis typing work in chandigarh[/url] 00be1ec
Wandis Tipler from Norman was trying to find submit dissertations umi proquest
Aileen Campoverde located the reply to a search question submit dissertations umi proquest
why write a senior thesis
thesis heat treated wood
citing a phd dissertation apa
uga dissertation database
[url=https://essayservicehelp.com/]write my paper[/url]
[url=https://englishessayhelp.com/]help write an essay[/url]
[url=http://forums.worldsamba.org/showthread.php?tid=430526&pid=1946883#pid1946883]shuzo tarumi thesis[/url] c9b1aed
Merilyn Denherder from Davidson County was seeking education dissertation questions
Ainsley Fallis came across the answer to a search query education dissertation questions
university of southampton dissertation guidelines
tower of hanoi coursework
aera dissertation grant proposal
[url=https://dissertationwritingtops.com/]argumentative essay topics[/url]
[url=https://essayssolution.com/]pro essay writers[/url]
[url=https://writeadissertation.com/]best essay writing services[/url]
[url=https://domycollegehomeworkforme.com/]how to write a research papers[/url]
[url=https://aopvp.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=418&pid=17663&page=6&extra=#pid17663]thesis book band brothers[/url] 78_c483
Aprilette Markwell from San Antonio was on the hunt for examples chapter 5 dissertation
Claire Ingvolostad stumbled upon the resolution to a research question examples chapter 5 dissertation
thesis on trichoderma
methods section of a thesis proposal
master thesis on sustainability
[url=https://domycollegehomeworkforme.com/]do my college homework[/url]
[url=https://dissertationwritingtops.com/]write a dissertation[/url]
[url=https://homeworkcourseworkhelps.com/]how to write a research papers[/url]
[url=http://www.ring8ny.com/2016/12/14/pictures-from-ring-8-holiday-party-2016/15403793_10209968112112598_2693312937008496486_o/#comment-547436]good topics for argument essays writers[/url] 940ec9b
Grier Gentsy from Anaheim was on the hunt for how to write your psychology dissertation
Latia Childres came across the answer to a search query how to write your psychology dissertation
project management mba dissertation
buy essay papers online cheap
[url=https://dissertationwritingtops.com/]best dissertation editing service[/url]
[url=https://payforanessaysonline.com/]pay for college essay[/url]
[url=https://essayssolution.com/]do my essay[/url]
[url=https://theessayswriters.com/]write my essay online for cheap[/url]
[url=http://astoriachristian.com/blog/mthiner/content-cats?page=16246#comment-202482]business plan writing service arizona registration[/url] b1aed74
You actually stated this wonderfully!
kroger pharmacy hours recommended online pharmacies online drugstore service canada
Fine postings. Thanks a lot!
highest discount on medicines online canadian drug stores best rx pharmacy software
Really quite a lot of good material.
online order medicine canada pharma limited llc ed meds without doctor prescription
Если вы искали где отремонтировать сломаную технику, обратите внимание – сервисный центр в москве
Thanks. Lots of data!
https://uscasinoguides.com/xbet-review/
Truly quite a lot of useful knowledge.
https://usagamblinghub.com/no-deposit-casinos/
Nicely put, Cheers!
best 10 online casino https://usacasinomaster.com/wild-review/ download online casino
You actually said this really well.
jogos slot machine gratis casino online zeus https://usacasinomaster.com/ethereum-casinos/ low minimum deposit online casino
You revealed that terrifically!
online casino sign up free money https://usacasinomaster.com/real-money-baccarat/ winbet casino online bg
Amazing all kinds of very good facts.
mejores casino online https://usagamblinghub.com real casino slots online real money
You actually said that superbly!
8888 casino online https://uscasinoguides.com/ignition-review/ kanuuna casino online
Nicely put. Kudos.
20 minimum deposit online casino https://usagamblinghub.com/new-jersey-casinos/ dr vegas casino online
With thanks. Terrific stuff.
playmgm nj casino online https://uscasinoguides.com/north-carolina-casinos/ online casino vegas real money
Helpful write ups. Thanks.
casino niagara online https://usagamblinghub.com/mybookie-review/ gta online casino all points of interest
Amazing plenty of wonderful data!
online casino nevada https://luckyusaplay.com/australian-casinos/ best online casino apps real money
Perfectly voiced without a doubt! !
best online casino in bangladesh https://usagamblinghub.com/texas-holdem/ all rival online casinos
Point clearly taken!!
7 seas casino online login https://uscasinoguides.com/mybookie-review/ casino online dansk
Awesome posts. Regards.
casino play online free https://usacasinomaster.com/california-casinos/ online casino philippines free spins no deposit
Lovely information, With thanks!
argosy casino online https://usagamblinghub.com/poker-real-money/ casino online gran madrid
Wonderful write ups. Thank you.
online casino vergelijken https://uscasinoguides.com/poker-games/ fortune 888 online casino login
Профессиональный сервисный центр по ремонту фототехники в Москве.
Мы предлагаем: ремонт фотовспышек на дому
Наши мастера оперативно устранят неисправности вашего устройства в сервисе или с выездом на дом!
Подробнее на сайте сервисного центра remont-vspyshek-realm.ru
Профессиональный сервисный центр по ремонту компьютероной техники в Москве.
Мы предлагаем: ремонт компьютера в москве
Наши мастера оперативно устранят неисправности вашего устройства в сервисе или с выездом на дом!
Thank you, Good stuff.
best casino online in thailand https://usacasinomaster.com/golf-betting/ ssbet77 online casino
Профессиональный сервисный центр по ремонту фото техники от зеркальных до цифровых фотоаппаратов.
Мы предлагаем: срочный ремонт проектора
Наши мастера оперативно устранят неисправности вашего устройства в сервисе или с выездом на дом!
Cheers! Wonderful stuff!
online casinos welcome bonus no deposit https://usaplayerscasino.com/minnesota-casinos/ online roulette casino game south africa
Профессиональный сервисный центр по ремонту компьютерных блоков питания в Москве.
Мы предлагаем: ремонт источников питания
Наши мастера оперативно устранят неисправности вашего устройства в сервисе или с выездом на дом!
Если кто ищет место, где можно выгодно купить раковины и ванны, рекомендую один интернет-магазин, который недавно открыл для себя. Они предлагают большой выбор сантехники и аксессуаров для ванной комнаты. Ассортимент включает различные модели, так что можно подобрать под любой стиль и размер помещения.
Мне нужно было купить раковину для ванной в москве , и они предложили несколько отличных вариантов. Цены приятно удивили, а качество товаров на высшем уровне. Также понравилось, что они предлагают услуги профессиональной установки. Доставка была быстрой, и всё прошло гладко. Теперь моя ванная комната выглядит просто великолепно!
Thanks! Valuable information!
australia online casino games https://usagamblinghub.com/omaha-poker/ online casino mit echtgeld startguthaben ohne einzahlung 2021
Хочу поделиться своим опытом ремонта телефона в этом сервисном центре. Остался очень доволен качеством работы и скоростью обслуживания. Если ищете надёжное место для ремонта, обратитесь сюда: оемонт телефонов.
ремонт техники профи в самаре
<a href=”https://remont-kondicionerov-wik.ru”>ремонт кондиционеров москва</a>
Wonderful material. Many thanks.
pure casino online https://luckyusaplay.com/pennsylvania-casinos/ casino slot games online free
You have made your point quite well.!
gta online how to make money in casino https://usaplayerscasino.com/slotocash-review/ online casino 777 promotiecode