Rank The Workshops
August 24, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
I recently read in a post about a Fidentia Review I published where I saw some guys asking about what workshops are actually worth it. In fact, I get this question a lot! So decided to make an open thread about the topic. All you guys out there who’ve taken a workshop, post about who you think was the best and who you think was the worst and why you feel that way.
Hopefully this will be able to become a reference for people out there actually interested in taking a workshop and would like to know as much about it as possible before committing thousands of dollars to it.
And keep the hating to a minimum. Constructive criticism only, please. =)
Williampneus on 
Qufvsn on 
CharlesLip on 
Stephenhoape on 
Chesternit on 
1.fidentia
2.rapid social impact
3.stephan hemon
4.badboy
5.ross jefferies
6.rsd
7.mystery method
last : DYD by dave d’angelo…great advise, but all u get is some stupid fucking flirting and social proof…he”ll be # 1 if ur looking to entertain…C&F bullshit…it’ll never get u laid in a million years…
Fucker.
“eat, drink,sleep and sleep pussy…i designed the pussy”
Ron Louis, helping you one on one, beats all the other workshops put together. His group workshops are also great.
I have taken two workshops from Pickup 101 (www.pickup101.com), Art of Attraction and Art of Rapport, as well as the RSD (www.realsocialdynamics.com) clasroom and in-field workshops.
All of these programs are helpful, informative and professionally run. I would recommand then all to anyone that wants to improve their interactions with women.
I have only taken 2 workshops, and that means that I can’t rank the others. I took a Badboy workshop and an RSD workshop.
Before I get to talking about each, allow me to explain that workshops have a lot of hype to them. Ultimately however, what they can do for you is limited. It’s limited b/c the instructors are not trained teachers, and merely novices, who are trying to explain what they do that works. It is also limited b/c only so much can be accomplished in a 3 day period. Your success will depend entirely on your own dedication to improvement.
A workshop will help you to approach if you are shy. It will also be an opportunity for someone who is very social and outgoing to critique your game, and give you feedback on how you are coming across, and some advice on fixing those problems.
Now the first workshop I took was RSD. At that time, I was an extreme introvert with serious social anxiety. The seminar portion was just a re-read of old TD posts, and there was no feedback given to me while I was in the field. Also, there were no lessons in winging.
The one real positive was that Mystery was a guest instructor. His explanation of MM gave the workshop its only real substance, leading me to believe that Mystery probably offers amazing workshops, judging by that sample. However, I would not recommend RSD, as all the good stuff can be found on posts on mASF for free (so as long as you can read and comprehend, you’re all set), and the field portion is a waste of time.
A year later I took a Badboy workshop. I was a little more social (guys enjoyed talking to me), but had been wierding girls out with the RSD stuff, so I was not confident at all. The seminar portion is very much about inner game, and making you see things differently. There are exercises that Badboy created, to try and instill in you the tools, that he feels are useful. The in-field part is filled with lots of feedback. You may not always like what you hear, or how you come across to others, but atleast you’ll know what you’re doing wrong and get some advice on fixing it.
The negative is that Badboy’s advice is mostly generic, as everyone gets given the same advice on how to cure certain things. There is nothing that can be done about it, as Badboy has found something he feels works best, and so he tells everyone the same thing. However, if you want alternate solutions, you’d need to look elsewhere.
I would absolutely recommend this workshop, as long as you don’t have false expectations about what you are getting. You will still need to work just as hard to get women, but you’ll be placed in the right direction. Also, all the Badboy students are very friendly and if you’re looking for new friends in your area or around the world, just by PM’ing them and chatting a bit (on the student lounge that you’ll have access to), you’ll be able to make some new friends.
Badoby also is great at teaching rapport, so you’ll have the skills to make friends more easily. So if you’re truly alone and just can’t make any new friends, this workshop would be a great choice for you.
As for other workshops, I can’t comment. Sickboy (Mike from CEIC) was an instructor when I took my RSD workshop. I can say that his advice is awful and he clearly gets laid purely b/c of his looks. His ability to explain what he does is limited b/c he honestly doesn’t know, and thus can’t even begin to teach.
As for Speed Seduction, Mystery has posted that RJ is the best from taking a guy from bAFC and making them an rAFC. Therefore, if for any reason you can’t pass the screening process to get on a Mystery workshop, take an SS seminar, and you’ll be able to pass the screening the next time. Only you can decide whether it’s worth it, but remember that this game is a process. You won’t automatically become great all at once, but instead you’ll improve as you gain experience and feedback. SS isn’t the the solution in and of itself, but for some guys, it’s definitely part of the solution.
The thing with a lot of these workshops is that b/c of the marketing and inflated processes, people become disillusioned with what they can reasonably expect. You will learn something from most of the workshops out there.The question that you want to ask is “is the price of the workshop worth the info. that I will get out of it?”
Remember, you don’t NEED to take a workshop….
…you might be able to teach yourself…..
…that’s what most people who got really good have done….
..but if you feel you need the edge that a workshop offers…..
…email the instructor and ask questions….
..those answers will tell you whether that particular workshop is worth it…..
…and if you do choose to take a workshop…..
…enjoy the experience b/c they’re a lot of fun……
….and that’s the….
-Truth
Fidentia and Brent were AWESOME and i learned very different things from the two. some applicable for me and some not, but both are definitely worth the money.
Mystery was interesting, but i don’t wanna have a 7 hour monologue that i run to every girl i meet, so i ended up getting close to nothing from that.
RSD were aweful. i took the bootcamp. i don’t know about their workshop, but i would say it’s definitely not worth the money.
interestingly enough, both Fidentia and Brent have a money back guarantee, and both Mystery and RSD don’t.
“interestingly enough, both Fidentia and Brent have a money back guarantee, and both Mystery and RSD don’t.”
Incorrect. Mystery does have a moneyback guarantee. RSD doesn’t though, as far as i know.
MysteryRules!
Nice post Truth. I still say that videos would Rule simply because it would be fun to watch this stuff in action. Imagine Mystery doing what he explains or watching RJ run patterns on a chick and see the reaction he gets. I would really like to see David DeAngelo work his stuff just to see if he’s cracked up to par with what he’s teaching others.
It would be like watching the UFC, except geared for seduction. See you don’t hear bitching about guys in the UFC fighting each other “just to prove that they can really fight.”
Id even go as far as match-ups. Get Badboy Vs Shark or TD vs Bishop or Mystery vs RJ.
-Schools like RSD vs DYD, or even SS vs Charisma Sciences-
I mean even if you didn’t learn a damn thing wouldn’t it be cool to watch these guys give video examples of what they teach? I heard David DeAngelo say in his Seminar (advanced?) that he wanted to Vid this stuff anyway so fuckin A, what are we waitin for?
I can promise you this – the first guy who put out Real live “hidden camera” videos of him doing a pick-up with at least a kiss close would increase his students like nobodys business.
And just to alleviate all the “vicarious living” accuations that some of you wanna throw around let me put it this way. I used to do martial arts Heavy! I competed and did exceptionally well, but that NEVER stopped me from watching Kung-Fu Movies or Kick-Boxing matches. Why wouldn’t you want to watch people do the thing you love to do too?
Fuck man, I should get a fricken camera and a production company going so I can do a Reality show on pickup artists. NON scripted too. We could go back to the origional Real world deal where no one gets kicked out of the house, but there would be an ongoing points scale and after all the season was up there would be a “MVPUA” award or some shit.
O.K. so now I’m rambling and Im sure alot of these catfishes are probably opposed to being on video for one reason or another but I still think it would be a great view.
Fight the Power!!
(I just felt like writing that even though it has nothing to do with anything.)
Coming Soon to Pay-per-View, it’s “Pick-Up Massive!” only $49.95 for this event you wont wanna miss!! Order Today!
There’s a website of these 2 guys who got $25.000 from AXE to travel around the country picking up girls.
Check it out: http://www.evanandgareth.com
It’s hilarious!
I took the Pickup101 workshop a month ago. I feel like the workshop polished up a lot of my skills. Don’t expect a miracle though. The instructors, while good, are human and you only get to spend 3 days with them. A lot of it will depend on you pushing yourself to apply what you learned during the workshop. Among other things, the workshop very effectively addressed several sticking points I had, especially my (huge) problem with mixed sets. I’d guess that I’ve only managed to apply maybe 25% of what I learned, but already I feel that my game has gone up a notch.
Should you sign up for a workshop? The question you really need to ask yourself is, how much is your time worth?
I don’t know if I should post this here but, Sosuave.com has a good bootcamp that is free. The only requirement is that you get in the field.
I’ve went through alot of material in my experience, and the truth seems very obvious to me in the end.
Everything you need is on the mASF site, or in your library, for free.
But there are alot of scammers out there. I know a couple people preparing to be coaches to catch this new wave of newbies, but really can barely get laid themselves. Problem is, they can talk like they do, and it’s hard to distinguish the difference behind all those promises.
But you don’t need to pay someone several hundred dollars to have them hold your hand. A couple of nights out doing the newbie missions (instructions found for free on mASF) will provide you with just about the same experience of how to make proper eye contact, adjust body language, tonality etc.
I’ve met too many workshop/forum junkies that are pretty much where they first started, minus alot of money, then wonder why there are so many people completely unaware of ASF but get laid on a consistant basis, so they pay more money to feel special about themselves.
What workshop did Mystery take? What workshop did Badboy take? Truth is, most guys who are great at this secretly knew in the beginning that they don’t need to pay for this stuff. They go out, hours at a time, and start conversations with women. Then they get good, and find other friends that are good with women, and swap ideas. It’s not easy, it’s scary as hell, but it’s gotta be done.
With mASF hitting another level of mainstream soon, there will be tons of scammers coming out telling you they’ve got the secret get-laid-fast formula, and honestly, it’s just a rephrasal of the same free material online. Don’t pay for free stuff.
Of course, this is now a ground for business and people will try to create a need for them to fill, so there will be tons of arguments about this… so I can only leave you with one small realization:
This stuff has been free for ages, and in the past people have been getting good quickly with the free material, whereas now people are paying alot of money but getting little results, so they have to go back to pay more money to get more lessons, using alot of energy and getting nowhere.
It’s a business scam…sell the remedy when the cure’s for free, so the clients go from one trainer to another, thinking they’re getting new material. Ridiculous.
You want non-biased advice from someone who’s NOT connected to these people? Here’s a rundown:
Mystery Method: canned routines and structure to build confidence, body language, etc. But routines become eventual crutches, and hard to disconnect from. Instead of paying nearly (or more than) a thousand bucks, go and say “I gotta run in a second, but who do you think lies more, guys or girls?” to 30 women. Once done that, tell random-but-somewhat-connected stories, while constantly acting like you’re leaving.
Most of his lessons can be found in his archived posts, so it’s not worth the money/time. He’s a great PUA though, and as a guy pretty weird, which gets him alot of value. I mean, how the hell do you not give a guy wearing a bumblebee backpack at a club value? I used his methods for some time until I realized I felt like a puppet, since I was running his routines over and over again till I felt numb. I’ve got a few friends who are big MM fans, and they get laid regularily with it, so it depends on how comfortable you are with saying the same shit over and over again. It’s possible, by the way, to run the same canned opener twice on the same target and still get away with it, showing it’s not the material, but the subtext, that matters.
RSD (TD) teaches natural game that has minmial structure, training your mind to come up with stuff on the spot, but most of the lessons could be found on his own posts anyway, he gives alot of his lesson away for free, and I respect him for that. Although I don’t believe in paying for workshops anymore, I’ve heard (and seen) some great improvements from people who went through it, in both inner game and outer game. I’ve also seen tremendous improvement in using tonality, and it can push you alot further in getting kiss closes. At the end of the day, however, if you don’t have the begginner knowledge and opening inclination to back it all up (all of which can be found FOR FREE on a ton of different sources), his workshop will be only a pep rally for you, boosting your confidence for a short time to get immediate results, but leaving you meantally masturbating thinking how great of a PUA you are as you sit and watch hbs walk by. Sort of like the one Bad Boy teaches.
Badboy has a very aggressive attitude that works wonders for him, but I’ve heard his old students complain PERSONALLY that they don’t see any results in the long run, because they don’t have the same ridiculously confident attitude to back it up once they get back to their lives. They get the thrills from being around him, because he has a very commanding aura, and get a few number closes (while everybody applauds, streamers thrown, etc), then goes home and wonders what changed. And I’ve heard this from a number of his old students. I’ve seen him personally, and frankly I’m not impressed by his teaching method. I’m very impressed by his appearance though, the guy intimidates the hell out of me. Bad Boy (or badboy fans) if you’re reading this, don’t come and shoot me.
Ross Jefferies is all about NLP and really, hypnosis. Most of the “manual/player’s guide” is based on Ross Jefferies, and is sadly disregarded by a good portion of the community nowadays. I’ve used patterns to amazing success, over and over again, but I always feel guilty (and a little dirty) about it after, so I don’t recommend it much unless you’re really quite horny and a little desperate, which is the vibe you’d be giving off if you’re not backing up the patterns with strong frames anyway. He does use NLP in his own advertising, though, and I don’t have as much respect on his character.
David D: Great inner game material in his mastery series, myself and everyone I know who got it LOVED it. But it doesn’t have so much to do as PU, but rather about making you a better, more confident man. Those who interpret his materials as just C&F are idiots, because saying David D’s material is based on C&F is like saying Harry Potter is a book based on Quiddich–related, but missing the point completely. I wish I can come up with a better analogy than Harry Potter but hopefully you get what I mean. His book DYD’s really more introductory material for bafcs…as is most other ebooks you’ll find out there. But he combines alot of material based on self-help books, business, marketing material, etc and turns it into a lesson on seduction. I recommend his reading list (found on amazon) as there’s quite alot of great books on there about being a better person, which will eventually make you more alpha and happier in your life, but strictly seduction-related material can be found FOR FREE on the mASF board.
The others:
There will be far too many new coaches, trainers, workshops, seminars, etc… coming up in the next couple years to name. Most of them too expensive for what you get, since everything you need is FREE (duh). They’ll all have something profound to say to you, but why pay 800 bucks when it’s…free? This stuff is not new, nor is it that special. Go to your local chapters and look under self-help. There are TONS of books on inner game, outer game, and everything in between.
Again, everything you need is Free. Nothing you pay for will help you more than the free material. You just have to find it.
BTW, There’ll be alot of people refuting this idea of DON”T PAY FOR FREE SHIT, because either their own livelihoods depend on it, or because they once paid for it and want to prove to other people they weren’t stupid. I’ve met alot of people willing to lie about their success to prove they made a good financial decision, so don’t fall into the trap. There will also be people saying “hey, there’s nothing wrong with a little extra help at 900 dollars a pop”, but do realize that there will always be suckers willing to pay instead of doing their own work, and I’m only going to be able to reach a few of the smart ones who learn from my lessons at the end of the day.
If you absolutely want to pay someone because you think paying other people makes you special and therefore you’ll be loved, find someone really good at this and take them out to dinner. See their success, one on one, and imitate their actions. Any and all questions they can’t answer, you can find in on mASF…
for free.
“RSD (TD) teaches natural game that has minmial structure, training your mind to come up with stuff on the spot”
Yeah right..
I just wanted to add to this great post by Vert Gallant.
I think alot of guys in this community feel the need to defend their own personal Guru or Workshop, just because they have spent money on it.
Guys tend to seem like they are satisfied with mediocre results simply because they feel thats its a decision or choice they made and then the ego kicks in and they want to believe that it was the best choice possible.
When you come and talk about the free stuff that can get the same results, almost always someone comes back with how workshops will improve their game and then they give an example of Mediocrity to prove their point.
Guys, this stuff is free. Vert is right. Don’t be suckers. Soon if this seduction stuff hits prime time there will be TOO Many “Seduction Gurus” coming out of the woodwork and this information will get so watered down that it will be just another marketing joke like some of the self-help stuff out there.
I think it will be important for us as rAFCs and PUAs to “out” any of these guys who show up with “New” seminars and workshops. In other words, be Critical of “johnny come latelys” with a new CD set and a new e-book/workshop or whatever. Don’t just Embrace them as the new “magic-pill” that will help you with what the other stuff hasn’t.
It’s all there already! So quit looking for the next big thing.
Agreed. Free stuff is good… BUT… Here’s the number one thing to remember. Too much of it fucks you up.
The number one advice I could give a newbie would be to read JUST one free ebook, 3 articles and two methods.
The thing is that… I actually had to take a workshop (spend money) so I could weed out which of the free stuff out there is worth it.
The trouble with the free stuff is that when you’re a newbie you end up reading everything, and not knowing what value it has or how it applies. The irony is that… you can only understand the texts ONLY after you get at a level where you could have been the one writing them. That’s the paradox.
The point is simple. If I could go back in time and visit myself when I was a newbie… I’d tell myself to read just “weapons of mass seduction”, “gunwitch” and get the shark CD and GW book when it comes out… oh and to “STAY THE FUCK OUT OFF MASF and NEVER EVER read or get ANY other product!
1) Give yourself up to a year to make things work without any outside commercial help
2) if in year’s time you haven’t progressed at all take a workshop. My recommendation would be one with post-workshop support like fidentia.
In the 1970′s it was:
“Haven’t I seen you someplace before?”
Today it’s taking a $1000 workshop to learn:
“Approach a woman at a forty five degree angle and ask them what they think of brad and angelina jolie”
Yeesh
“2) if in year’s time you haven’t progressed at all take a workshop. My recommendation would be one with post-workshop support like fidentia.”
Mystery Method offers both Mystery’s Lounge for former and post-workshop conference calls every six weeks with Mystery himself.
MysteryRules!
Will mystery come and hold my hand when I pick up girls?
Most of the guys I know teaching workshops have a lot to share. And, yes, most of the ‘information’ out there is available for free.
At PickUp 101, we cram our three day programs with nothing but exercises (with and w/o girls), personal instructor interaction, and field experience. This is all done in small groups of three or four guys, not a seminar room.
It’s not about the ‘information’ – we send all that out in a packet of all before the program begins. Then we call you to make sure you understand it and did your homework. That way, when you arrive we get to focus on your habits and personality – the stuff that really matters.
In spite of this, only a small percentage of the workshop will ‘stick’ immediately afterwards. You’d be lucky to be able to use 25% right away.
You need to follow up and do the work for any program to be useful. We have weekly calls for two months after the program – the guys who ride the momentum after workshop really feel this stuff to sink in change their lives. People take programs to get results, not information – big difference.
-Lance
I have always contemplating on taking a Mys workshop, I do pretty well in the attraction phase BUT try to escalate without building comfort and come across major resistance. I really don’t know how to build comfort without making he conversation boring
So you Mys fans, does he teach you how to build rapport? I would think asking questions in an effort to build rapport will kill the attraction. Pointers please.
You want Rapport I would SERIOUSLY recommend 2 cats that people in this community don’t give enough credit to and that’s Louis and Copeland.
A great book I read about the topic is – “How to Talk to Women”
Seriously
It’s pretty much a book that explains what girls want to talk about and how to talk about it.
You want to make girls interested in you? The best way to build connections and Rapport is to talk about them!
example:
Her: What do you do?
Me: Seriously? I got a better topic since that kinda topic gets old and boring real quick and totally doesn’t tell you anything about the other person anyway. Whats something you are really passionate about, like if you could spend the rest of your life doing something, Anything you want, what would it be?
—
In that short reply theres so much I just did and Yes this is an example of a REAL conversation I had with a chick who tells me still how Very Attracted to me she is among other things ;op
1. Most importantly I put the subject to her favorite topic – Her. Trust me and the others who say a girl really doesn’t care about what you do or what you’re about. She wants to her you talk about her.
2. Qualifying and a little cocky funny, but not in a trying too hard kind of way.
3. Getting her to talk about Trance words for Eliciting Values and so on if you do that kinda stuff and also listening to what she finds passionate and just simply getting her mind thinking in that direction which is what you want anyway.
I’d give a book example from “How to talk to Women” by L&C but it would take up a lot of time and space so Ill just leave you with this. The book is filled with this stuff and I highly recommend it for your case, buddy, and guess what, it’s not $1000 or $600 or even $100 and will work if you apply whats in it. It’s $17 at Amazon right now.
Thanks Geese, I am going to check this out but my sticking point is rapport/comfort building in places with high traffic like clubs which have loud music playing. and to top it all HBs found here have ADD, so how in fucks name do you pull it off??
When i see the attraction thing going well (pushpull/Cnf,backturns) i try to isolate my target to build rapport but then I face resistance (like “ohh i need to be with my friends”). I am doing something wrong and i need to fix it.
excellent post by vert gallant
Does anyone know of some other wokshops? The ones listed are well knnown and great, but it would be interesting to hear about others, less known one. Let me know and I’ll put up a review, price comparison and instructor biography on my website.
Thanks
Fidentia and CSI
Can you become good at attracting women by just going out often? Yes and No.
It all depends on the individual.
There are some men who are self taught. Heck, there are guys who taught themselves how to play guitar! And then there are others who have gone out to bars more times than they care to remember, and still, they have unresolved issues.
The latter group makes a series of mistakes and they keep repeating those same mistakes every time.
Sometimes, it takes someone on the outside to observe us, and help us make distinctions which we had not noticed before. It also takes a lot of balls to even admit that you could use advice in this area of your life.
Taking a workshop/seminar on how to improve one’s dating-life is a very personal choice for each person.
It’s not up to a commercial person to tell people that they need a workshop.
Similarly, it’s also not the place of an anonymous Internet typist to say that someone else does not need it.
It’s a very personal choice for the individual to determine. He has to decide if he is satisfied with his dating-life and if not, what is he going to do about it?
If you have friends who are just “Naturals”, swallow your ego and ask for their help. Some of them can help, many cannot.
In the end, dating-workshops are an option. It’s something that was not available 20 years ago……
There was no Internet and NO “Seduction Community.” There was no choice to take a workshop.
You were on your own.
Now, there is all sorts of options. There are seminars, Ebooks, workshops, and so forth. Like Lance said earlier, a workshop does not offer instantaneous change. It helps put people on a correct path.
For those wondering, our goal at Fidentia is NOT to pump you up with lines and scripted crap. It’s to help men make a change and continue from there. We also realize that people tend to go back to their old habits sometimes, and that’s why we have our student forum.
I’ll say it Again, if a person can make these distinctions on his own, that’s great.
If he feels, he needs a bit of coaching, the option is there.
This is a good thing.
Sincerely,
The One
Well said The_One
I’ll put that on my site, accessible by clicking my name.
i think workshops can aid somewhat in the evolution of a player, though all too often one finds oneself in a cul de sac, going in vicious cycles.
my views on the worth of workshops is always changing- depending on what light i am seeing them on. there are many ways to view the world, all of them subjectively.
so it’s kind of a question of results and getting laid. I like to think that you can have everything running right, except have one kink on the hose or one problem in the machine and nothing happens. the kink could be not knowing quite what you want, it could be something you are totally unaware of that you don’t know is hurting you.
to me it’s a question of influence. who and what kind of people do you want to be influenced by
it is often hard to distinguish betwen those who can talk as they are getting laid and those who actually do. it’s a damn shame.
i don’t think i would have taken one workshop if it would have been in my home country, for the sake of learning how to get women. but being abroad i just decided to fucking say GERONIMO and create a sense of adventure. but i started practicing and going out before i was taking these workshops and i realize now that was better for my social life than anything these workshops gave. if anything these workshops gave me confusion. they gave me enlightement but they didn’t give me skill, because they can’t. I guess they gave me strategy and understanding, but it is up to me to use them.
but all the understanding they gave me takes away from the mystery of me finding that stuff out on my own through trial and success.
anyway there are no guarantees. everyone is an adult, they have to make their own choices and they have to account for them in the future. me, i’m just trying to get back to where i was prior, but this time on a higher level. the workshops have made me cynical but i am still an optimist. kind of like dave chappelle i think.
i guess i’m just realizing that as one grows up, relationships are the cause of great confusion. sometimes i just want to be player sometimes i want to be other. i gave up religion. maybe i can give up society program. fucking crazy. that’s my conclusion
I don’t think i would have ever taken workshops if not for already being abroad and increasing my sense of adventure. i would never have done it on the home front because i would have thought of it as pathetic. I still kind of do. there is no magic they can teach. they cannot teach a miracle. but still there are some that are better than others, and maybe it can make you more flexible in your mind if you are the certain type of person who can benefit. just be a mature adult and make decisions that you can own up to.
As far as seminars go:
David X & Mystery Method
Product wise… DYD Advanced was and still is good for a lot of guys out there who are looking to improve. People who don’t bother with the “exercises” though tend to bitch and complain about it.
Onto “Direct” I don’t know why everyone thinks shark created it. Direct IS David X, I’m sure Thundercat and others who have met him would agree.
It’s seriously retarded how a lot of people credit shark for it. If anyone introduced “direct” to the community it was David X.
As I said “workshop” wise… for TIME and MONEY well spent you should look into attending a David X seminar when it’s available and/or a “bootcamp” with Mystery.
With that you are able to go out and adapt/modify what you’ve learned to what locks in with your own personal “method” and experience.
Dalek
Your saying that “ranko took david x’s game” is the funniest thing ever. Because MOST great naturals in the world do direct. They all evolved into it independent of one another.
Perhaps what you’re saying is because you’re not familiar that Ranko (shark) was a PUA long before he was involved in the community, long before there WAS a community. He was literally pushed into the community when discovered by community guys.
regarding david x…
I have been trying to contact him for over 4 weeks. He’s no longer in this stuff I’m guessing… And cliff says “we’re no longer associated” So david X is no longer an option it seems.
Have you found a girlfriend or got laid yet Alek?
I took the August 12-14 Charisma Sciences Institute (CSI) Workshop in Anne Arbor with Juggler http://www.charismasciences.com . While he hasn’t received as much press, Juggler is as original as Mystery himself- he’s mentioned in Neil Strauss’ New York Times Article and has his own section on phone game in the August edition of Esquire magazine. Apparently, Juggler even taught TD at one point.
The CSI structure is very simple, but the CSI instructors customize the structure towards your personality. They teach you how to connect and vibe with women on the emotional level using your life experiences. I thought that I did not have enough life experience to be able to do this but I actually discovered I have too much going on so I had to filter down on my conversation threads after talking with the CSI instructors. It’s been two weeks since the workshop and I’ve gotten more IoIs than ever before and even had an attractive girl bluntly tell me she “fancied me” right in the middle of our conversation that was totally nonsexual.
Another plus of the workshop is that you get 1:1 student to instructor ratio. There is Johnny, an amazing Natural who is just as good as Juggler, Free, the inner-game specialist, and John, the AFC turned PUA business manager of CSI. Between the four of them, all your questions on PU will be answered. Also, when you talk to these guys, you will get the impression that they are genuinely out to help you. I assume this is why they give a money-back guarantee.
The only drawback is that they increased their rates since I took the workshop, probably due to the 1:1 ratio, but if you want to become a true PUA and a better person, I’d take it. I feel I’m right at the edge breaking through and becoming a true PUA myself and it’s only been 2 weeks since the workshop.
There were two other students at the CSI workshop who also took the MM workshop. They felt that MM was too impersonal and that the routine style game did not fit their personalities. I have talked to both of them since the CSI workshop and we have all agreed that we don’t need any more instruction on our Game. CSI teaches Game based on Natural PUAs, so it can be tailored to people with different personalities. In fact, all the CSI instructors have varying personalities ranging from being reserved and only speaking when necessary to being super-friendly and befriending everyone at the bar. The fact that they can use this method and have it work for each of their personalities showed me how versatile their method actually is. One of the biggest things I learned through CSI was that you don’t need to be super-Alpha to be a superstar PUA. I would not consider Juggler or Johnny super-Alpha but they can connect with girls instantly on both a physical and emotional level with such ease that it boggles my mind.
has anyone heard from the guys who were in New Orleans? There was a fidentia workshop there…
that workshop got canceled cuz there’s a hurricane there.
robert and cameron are ok.
I wonder if CSI will postone the due date for their e-book again? It’s been at least 4 times. It originally was supposed to come out in early June. How much time does it take to produce an e-book?
Concerned Citizen
hi guys i m relatively new to the community. but i need some advice and would definately appreciate some help. i ve managed to read most of the info from the community stalwarts i.e dave d, MM, gunwitch, shark, rsd etc and i ve got to say that the “System” if you like, that make the most sense to me is mystery method. the reason for this is because i ve always been fairly sucessful with girls and can approach kiss lay etc. and in my 27 years i ve probably shagged about 35+ girls who ve all been between 6-9 in looks, and kissed hundreds and had lots of LTR flings etc. so while i don t claim to be an expert i m far from being a virgin or anything.
BUT
the problem i have is that all the *really* hot babes if i approach direct about half the time there not interested which is fine, however sometimes i can see there is some level of attraction but i ALWAYS GET COCKBLOCKED. now i m not on here to show off brag or sell or promote anything.
when i look back at most very successful seductions of HIGH QUALITY women the pick up naturally or not seemed to follow mystery s method.
now my question is only really adressed to you guys who have actually met mystery and done a seminar or bootcamp with him who regularly practice his method. I don t really want any recommendations about anything else, just MM.
1. how have you found its worked for you in relation to your sucess before and after?
2. could you have had the same sucess without it. i.e you understand MM and apply it yourself
3. is there anyone with a similar age/ background to my own that has gone on to have what they would consider “massive sucess” on the back of it i.e lots of regular lays with 8 s 9 s and 10 s.
4. if anyone wants to share there thoughts about mm with me privately feel free.
Thanks alot guys i really appreciate any help.
+energiser
Hey Thundercat, I’m a newbie here, & have been reading your posts for a few days. You seem like your game is right & tight, do U teach pick up classes, I would like to learn from one of the best. Thanks
Brent’s workshop was the best in my opinion. He was honest, direct, easygoing, and most of all, promoted a very natural and NO-BULLSHIT approach to women and life.
Btw, does anyone know when his site is gonna be up and running?
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