RSD Lawsuit
June 3, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under Drama & Rumors
Word has it that Real Social Dynamics has just lost a lawsuit with a dissatisfied customer.
I don’t know all the details about what went down, but I did find this from the Rip-Off Report which details some of the specifics.
Background:
I had signed up with a company
named Real Social Dynamics, who teach men how to connect with women in
the dating scene on deeper levels, or to “pick up” on women for lack of
a better word. The theme of their product deals with what is known as
вЂmaterial,’ or canned stories, routines, and opening lines used to
engage groups of people with. The course basically consisted of going
to public venues with the instructors for most of the day and ending
usually at 2:30 – 3:00 at night/early morning. During this time, they
would force me into groups of people.I was clearly tricked into this by their marketing techniques and
false internet advertising. I had signed up for their most expensive
package which included three days and nights of personal one-on-one
coaching.Before signing up, I carefully read the itinerary on their web site.
Their introduction and main pages state that students will learn:
- “How to Convert the Girl You’ve Been Particularly Interested In, From Friendship to Intimacy.”
- “How to Properly Use Phone Conversations with Women to Your Advantage.”
- “What Works in the Field and How You Can See a LIVE Demonstration of Successful Approaches with a Well-Trained Wingman.”
- “How to Plan Dates That are Cost-Free, and Far More Fun For the Girl Than Any Standard Date.”
- “How to Cultivate an Endless Repertoire of Humour and Conversational Topics.”
- “Field-Tested Tips for Bars, Colleges, and Even the Most Exclusive Social Circles.”
- “This is direct instruction of exactly how to do it. This has never
been done before. Nobody else has the ability nor skill to attract
women with this level of consistency or predictability.”- “How to "play hard to get", and "be the prize". Its one thing to say it, but very difficult in practice.”
- "How to create COCKY & FUNNY material on the fly. Also, learn
hundreds of direct examples of cocky / funny humour (several hours
worth), and many derivations and subforms of cocky / funny humour.”- “How to immediately profile women’s personalities, to know what
kind of approach they would be most receptive to. Many guys are not
completely sure about what approach to use on any particular girl.”- “How to use body-language to attract, and calibrate body-language
immediately to the type of girl and situation that you’re in, to
attract her immediately in every situation. It’s important not only to
recognize the importance of body language and how it’s used to attract
women.”- “How to read body-language and verbal subcommunication of all
women, to know when they’re attracted to you, and when they’ll be
receptive to escalation. Never take another rejection – it is not
necessary when you have the ability to read the situation with
precision.”- “How to avoid getting into traps of cocky verbal sparring and
flirting, or being entertaining, and escalate the interaction to a more
intimate level.”- “How to make use of social dynamics, in a way that’s guaranteed to make women approach YOU, several times a day.”
- “How to approach girls while they’re walking or on the move, in a
way that they’ll stop immediate and talk to you – even girls who are
walking past you in the opposite direction.”- “How to get access to and work the most exclusive venues, where the most stunning women are found.”
- “How to tell stories, conduct conversations, and never be short of what to say.”
- “How to quickly adjust to girls who are initially unresponsive to
your approach, so that you never have to deal with a girl that doesn’t
want to talk to you – get them interested in you immediately.”- “How to befriend the peer group of attractive girls quickly, so
that they’ll be supportive and encourage the two of you to get
together.”- “How to strategically meet girls while you’re with your own friends, and strategies for working as a team.”
- “How to use conversational topics that will convey all of your best
qualities, in the shortest period of time, while simultaneously
increasing her attraction.”- “How to rapidly build rapport and connection.”
- “How to comfortably escalate physical contact, in a way that the girl will find comfortable.”
- “How to use phone conversations to your advantage. It’s not only
important to know how to engage women in real life. Learning to work
the phone is a massively important piece of the puzzle, which often
goes overlooked.”- “Learn to convert any phone number into a get together, even if the girl is busy or not initially interested.”
- “How to get girls that are shy on dates or on the phone to open up.”
- “How to plan dates that are cost-free, and great date ideas that
are far more fun for the girl than any standard date. Learn what sort
of plans will interest girls to come out the most, and how to manage
your dating life conveniently.”- “How to make girls comfortable being alone with you – "going back to your place", etc.”
- “How to get women so sexually excited that puts you in total control.”
However, during the course, none of the above points were covered.
Second, the instructors themselves did not display any kind of
mastery that the itinerary outlines. The instructors could talk to
women and get their attention, but that was the extent of their
objective knowledge. Sometimes, while running their material, the
people would simply be non-responsive and have confused looks on their
faces. On the first night, we approached a group of one guy and two
other girls. The instructor Owen (PKA TylerDurden) did manage to
isolate the first girl while I interacted with the two friends. During
that time, he was trying hard to convince her to come back to the house
with us, using normal everyday, yet hopeless rhetoric. Given that this
woman wasn’t even very attractive, I was surprised to find us going
home by ourselves.Third, none of what they did was objectively result-oriented. Almost
every approach would consist of me going up to a group, stating a
conversational opening line or story, and then the instructor I was
with would come to us 30 seconds later and continue the conversation.
Afterwards the instructors would try to drive the conviction into me
that the girls “were so interested in you” based on even a frivolous
small glance or hesitation on their part which could have signified
many different things. Then the cycle repeated.Fourth, the course was unorganized. On the second day Nick Kho and
another instructor gave me the first lecture based on a вЂcheat sheet’
they handed out. This document was filled with abbreviations, acronyms,
and incomplete sentences that assumed that the reader had a knowledge
of what all these meant. Through the lecture, he would explain once
what they signified, but afterwards did not volunteer to go through it
with us again. Furthermore, I was delayed three times on a time span of
two months in excess of the original time I planned on taking it.By the end of the course, not only did my attitude or knowledge of
social dynamics not change at all, but on the contrary, after seeing a
lack of both professionalism and effectiveness on the instructors’
behalf, my beliefs in socializing worsened. I can honestly say that I
am both worse off and monetarily down after taking this class. They did
not demonstrate mastery of the skills they offer to teach. They are
frauds with cunning advertising. I did not see any results on their
behalf or my own.
There’s a rebuttal on there from someone named Nicholas, but I guess the courts didn’t agree with him.
I wonder how this will affect the RSD business?
Michaelgesty on 
Michaelgesty on 
StevenNailk on 
RickyBuM on 
MarcelasceW on 
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff115620.htm
I am real glad for this guy. Having been in his position with RSD, I can relate to most of what he is talking about. It’s about time someone stood up for themselves and got justice. I am only embarassed that I wasn’t the one who did this.
I doubt it will affect RSD’s business much, unless it becomes very well publicized. The problem is that most guys would be sucked into the instructor’s frame, and would believe that the women were giving phantom IOI’s and that they have all the tools needed to succeed, even if they weren’t taught anything.
The guy who filed this lawsuit, I happen to know was a member of Mystery’s lounge at one time or another. Therefore, he was knowledgeable enough to realize what happened during the workshop, and he was able to explain it for other’s to understand. I doubt most of the RSD students would have that ability, as I know that at that time, I did not.
However, if this decision stops even 1 person from getting scammed, it was worth it….
……and that’s the…..
-Truth
What is posted here isn’t a law suit…
Reading this:
Some guy paid for a boot camp with one of His mother’s checks;
His mother caught him;
He asked RSD for his money back (having attended the boot camp);
RSD said ‘no’;
The guy got pissed off;
The guy complained to this organization (which looks like an online Better Business Bureau);
RSD posted a rebuttle.
There’s nothing here that mentions a law suit.
In short, it looks like RSD got ripped off buy this guy who wrote the equivalent of a bad check and he got caught by his mother, who wanted her money back!
Peter,
The Rip Off Report thing wasn’t the lawsuit. From what I understand, the guy in question tried everything in his power to get what was promised to him before asking for a refund, and when they refused, then he went to court. I guess it was just settled. I don’t think the court would have judged in his favor if he did in fact write a bad check (which would have been pretty easy to prove).
Needless to say, this worries me.
Thundercat
I think he may be right. Knowing TD’s writing, it does seem like he only has success because of his clothing and his looks, combined w/his convos. Other than that he’s probably like me, a KJ.
TD and the RSD are such losers. I wouldn’t go to their wkshops even if I was a multi-millionaire. Mystery, Dr. Dennis Neder (http://www.beingaman.com) and Badboy are the only ones whose wkshops I’d attend. All the others are losers and that includes The One, Cliff (Cliff from Cliff’s List because he’s agenda always includes the SS theme, that bastard, bitch keep sucking RJ’s cock), Juggler (Jug Method was great but you’re not cool enough to host seminars) and other losers who try to take money off AFCs. Suck a large one.
yep you’re right there nicholas..
i’ve been there also. im in their vegas bootcamp, but when i got there, i said to myself “i should’ve just re-read my printed copy of DYD”… Coz its just plain waste of cash
Well, I’ve been to an RSD workshop but i will have to admit TD does have some game… I can’t say he hasn’t but the others especially Nick are like clueless.. I think I haven’t seen anyone as bad as Nick.. He always blew any set he went into and couldn’t hold a descent convo not only with girls but with guys too.. very weird guy.
I do think RSD’s lack of proper refund policies is one of their flaws. (Their current policy is unknown to me) Why the 2 founders decided on such non refundable programs in the beginning is a bit baffling to me.
As Geoff who has worked for the TR organization probably knows, having dissatisfaction refund policies is great since hardly anyone takes advantage of them. But makes your company look incredibly fair by allowing the few unsatisfied customers to get their money back, relieving them of their ability to accuse you of cheating them.
When you get that big, every mistake is going to be magnified.
When u get too tall, people are going to try to cut you down (Tall Poppy Syndrome).
“TD and the RSD are such losers. I wouldn’t go to their wkshops even if I was a multi-millionaire. Mystery, Dr. Dennis Neder (http://www.beingaman.com) and Badboy are the only ones whose wkshops I’d attend. All the others are losers and that includes The One, Cliff (Cliff from Cliff’s List because he’s agenda always includes the SS theme, that bastard, bitch keep sucking RJ’s cock), Juggler (Jug Method was great but you’re not cool enough to host seminars) and other losers who try to take money off AFCs. Suck a large one.”
Hey Dr. Neder
(the only website you seem to throw in your comments)
If you want business don’t drum it up by attacking your competition.
Instead focus on HELPING students. They will talk about you instead. Your testimonials will speak volumes for you.
Its absurd the amount that they charge and its also absurd that anyone would pay that kind of money. It just goes to show that many guys are desperate enough to get results and these places are desperate enough to take their money without so much as a minimal guarantee.
It seems that the methods that they use to teach isnt working very well or at all. So you get to wing w/ some guys that do it often. Is it gonna really change you after you leave? Is it going to instill confidence in you to try it on your own?
if there is a lawsuit, what county and what are the exact names in it, it should be easy to find
REVEAL YOUR SOURCES AND REFERENCES, THUNDY
I have already booked for the weekend workshop in London coming up in few weeks…this makes a little uncomfotable in the stomach to be honest….i hope there is some kind of counter statement from the RSD side, that would reply to all of this in a convincing way.
Cancel the bootcamp while you still can. I’ve heard some good stories about RSD, but mostly horror stories. There’s many good programs out there that teach stuff that actually works though — Badboy, Juggler, Fidentia, and Rapid Social Impact, to name a few.
I saw the RSD crew at a DYD seminar. They looked like the ScoobyDoo Gang.
I took the RSD seminar/workshop in Washington DC this April. I was very impressed at the time, and felt like my game was about to explode into mindboggling success. For a couple of weeks afterward, I was doing pretty well.
But what I realize now is that this was just a “post-workshop high.” Basically, I was saying to myself, “i just got finished taking RSD! I must be awesome now!” so my confidance went up. It’s like taking a placebo that you think is medicine – just thinking “I took a pill” will give you a placebo affect. But after a few weeks the high started to wear off – my workshop was long past, I didn’t have any more *reason* to think I should do well. And my game went all the way down to where it was before I took RSD.
Actually, it went down ever farther. I think I might actually be worse off due to taking this. The reason is that what they teach is really glitzy and cool, but it’s just not affective. I have tremendous respect for all the instructors for taking the time in their lives to go out 5 nights a week and practice this shit – but in the end I think that the method RSD teaches is more like a performance – a seperate skill that is in no way related to the process of becoming a guy who is more successful with women. After taking the seminar and workshop, my whole game became based on verbal lines, structures, and complex technical shit.
But what disappointed me the most out of anything was the dogmatism. The instructors are very dedicated to what they teach, and know it very well. However, they seem to be competely unaware of the fact that not all guys are the same, and some of us have different strengths, different weaknesses, and different issues of why we’re less successful than we want to be. What they have is a mass produced, one-size-fits-all system that they go and teach to everybody, regardless of whats going on with the guy. It’s like they’re great drivers, but they’ve smoked a little too much herb and have tunnel vision on the road, and can’t see the periphery. Many times I tried to tell the instructors about my personal issues, and their responses were either “Stop being negative!”, or “Don’t worry about it, just go use this line!” or “Hey man, that sucks, I dunno what to tell ya, sorry.” I would try to explain “I have this problem with generating attraction because of this, or this problem with rapport because of this” and they would just say “doesn’t matter, just follow our system!” Like when you ask your college professor a very in depth question about the subject that you’re having trouble with, and he says “Just go look it up. It’s in your textbook. Use the index!”
RSD has a certain aura about them. Tyler, 26, and jlaix are legendary. When you meet them, you get an adrenaline rush, your energy goes up, and this helps a LOT in the field. When you take this workshop, you WILL make massive progress on your three nights, and you will break new ground and achieve stuff you’ve never achieved before. But it’s coming from the wrong place. It’s coming from “I just met Tyler! wow!” or “I just took a workshop… so I MUST be good and that girl over there MUST like me.” And as soon as the instructors leave your town, and your post-workshop confidance wears off, you’re back at square one, because they didn’t teach you anything that really works. They don’t teach you how to become attractive to women – they just help you memorize and recite lines and go from one step to the next in a sequence. I suppose for some guys who already have good game and lots of success, this stuff is helpful for maximizing their efficiency, but for 9 out of 10 of us, it’s probably a bad bet. I don’t recommend RSD.
“Hey Dr. Neder
(the only website you seem to throw in your comments)
If you want business don’t drum it up by attacking your competition.
Instead focus on HELPING students. They will talk about you instead. Your testimonials will speak volumes for you.”
Hey Robert Torrey,
I’m not Dr. Neder. The only reason I throw in his url is because he doesn’t get involved w/the seduction community.
Fidentia group only has one good teacher and that’s Shark. Shark I’ve got respect for–he’s straight up.
Rob if you want to discuss anything w/Dr. Neder you can always email him. He’s also got a discussion board on Yahoo which is always popping. It’s very involved, hey you may even learn something.
What the fuck?? Memorizing lines to become successful with women? How is that different from that quack Ross Jeffries?
I’m surprised no one has stepped up in defense of RSD yet. Maybe it’s because people who are actually having success have better things to do than whine all day about their personal failings.
RSD could be better, sure. Other than maybe Mystery, they have the best program out there. However, it’s up to you to follow through. If you’re actively trying to get better and need some expert help, they’re your guys. If you’re a lazy KJ who goes out once a month, it will be fun but won’t revolutionize your game.
I know Oriel, and he’s extremely lame and weird even around guys. It’s no surprise that he isn’t a pick-up god.
One criticism I will agree with is that some instructors are better than others.
“Fidentia group only has one good teacher and that’s Shark. Shark I’ve got respect for–he’s straight up.”
It amazes me that people who have never met me, taken a workshop, or talked with people who have taken our workshops have so much opinion on an issue.
We don’t make it a point to badmouth others.
We dedicate ourselves to our workshop attendees getting results and I think that comes through in the reviews.
If you are a legit person, feel free to email me.
Otherwise, you are just trolling with malice in mind.
The One
“TD and the RSD are such losers. I wouldn’t go to their wkshops even if I was a multi-millionaire.”
Ok, and how do you know this? I don’t like the indirect method but I’ve never met anyone from RSD so I cannot judge them to be losers or not, they may be Gods at the indirect method and be getting laid like rockstars for all I know.
“Mystery, Dr. Dennis Neder (http://www.beingaman.com) and Badboy are the only ones whose wkshops I’d attend.”
Ok, and what do you base this on? And their stuff seems quite different and maybe even contradictory in some places, so how do you renconcile that?
“All the others are losers and that includes The One, Cliff (Cliff from Cliff’s List because he’s agenda always includes the SS theme, that bastard, bitch keep sucking RJ’s cock), Juggler (Jug Method was great but you’re not cool enough to host seminars) and other losers who try to take money off AFCs. Suck a large one.”
I’ve met the One and he is an awesome guy, he has a great personality, and he is very comfortable in his own skin with women.
Cliff’s list frequently includes lots of contributions from non-SS people. If Cliff himself believes in SS it is natural that he would speak in favor of it, and in no way does that mean he is “sucking RJ’s cock.” Are you sucking Mystery’s, Dr. Neder’s and Badboy’s cocks for saying they are the only good workshop hosters?
Juggler is not “cool” enough even though his method is great? Hahaha, what do you think workshops are for, hanging out with guys who HandsomeMan finds cool or to learn a good method (even though I’m not too happy with the word method) ?
The criteria to be a good workshop instructor is to teach stuff that works well to others, not to be “cool” in your eyes.
And who are the “other losers who try to take money off AFCs?” Are these people you actually have knowledge and experience of or is it just more unsubstantiated slander from your part?
I recognize you from the Badboy forum where you’ve been spreading your bad attitude as well. Why don’t you try to get a better attitude towards other to start with? It will help you with everything, from picking up chicks to feeling better about yourself, trust me!
You say Shark is “straight up” so please read what he’s written and what people have written about him and you’ll notice that he is one of the PUAs that is LEAST considered with his status, with trying to look cool, and similar things.
The One, who you slam by name, also comes off as a cool guy who doesn’t even try to be cool, by the way.
> When you take this workshop, you
> WILL make massive progress on your
> three nights, and you will break
> new ground and achieve stuff
> you’ve never achieved before. But
> it’s coming from the wrong place.
> It’s coming from “I just met
> Tyler! wow!” or “I just took a
> workshop… so I MUST be good and
> that girl over there MUST like me.”
Hi Dan
You have posted a well reasoned and well thought out account of your situation and you obviously have no axes to grind, etc. What you are describing makes a lot of sense; I don’t speak for RSD and I don’t even know the guys personaly, other than seeing them in ASF, but I will try to give you my two Zimbabwean cents:
YOU NEED TO FIND YOUR OWN SOURCE OF CONFIDENCE AND OPTIMISM.
This game is a bitch sometimes, but you only realize that when you have a long sequence of fuck ups and/or when some chick totally shits on you. With time, your confidence will go down and your results deteriorate.
What you need to do is: 1) Work on feeling genuinly comfortable with yourself; don’t build your self-worth on how many women you’re with or wether you’re getting some or not. 2) Find something that makes you feel cool.
For #1 I had no problem with it, I always felt great about myself. Now for #2 I did many things, I hope you too can benefit from them:
1) I devided my gaming universe to two; I would go out clubbing and approach cool hot club chicks just for the sake of training and sharpening my claws, I would push each interaction as far as it goes, I would try kino, quick kiss, weird lines, weird body language like severe back turns, I would try out all the shit I read in ASF, after I crashed and burned and felt “good”, I would turn to AFC chicks in daytime game and see my results SHINE. Go ahead, do that. Practice on hotties at night, then come back to AFC chicks. People say HBs and normal chicks require different game .. BULLSHIT. It’s all about being cocky and funny, coming up with crazy shit to say, being cool, being able to contribute to the conversation and show her new interesting stuff, etc.
2) STOP WINGING. Going out with other ASFers, specially if they’re beginers or timid or have no game .. SUCKS. You two, or three, or four, will go out and just nag at each other like the Marge Simpson sisters. There is no better way to amplify negative self image than to join others in the same boat. It’s OK to hang out, talk, exchange ideas, as long as you know that you’re not “together” and each of you is free to approach whatever chick he wants and take off with her anytime. Then, your association is more like a chat during a cigratte break, rather than a support group.
3) Constantly get back to the basics. Keep in mind it’s about FUCKING, not “talking” or “gaming” or “ingaging”. Sometimes primitive GM-based cavemaning is all it takes. Sometimes the girl just wants to be cared for and treated nicely and kindly; not all chicks give it up because they’re negged and called a powerpuff girl.
4) Mercilessly borrow, steal, copy, and cajole ideas from others (I didn’t say “buy” because I never paid for shit) There is no one great method, no silver bullet, they all work sometimes and don’t other times. SS offers the best rapport based game, EVing is what romance is made of. MM has the best skills for clubbing, I am not so sure of Mystery later systems like the 8-step programme. The RSD guys, you know, have serious game, you would be stupid to dismiss the tome of knowledge put out by TD; off the top of my head; the 25-Points, Stealing Horny Chicks, How to Really PU, and Playing Hard to Get are stuff I have read, reread, and fucking changed my life. I met Juggler and basically jump started my social skills, I don’t even think I knew how to be “normal” before meeting juggler, I was into show off and fast cars, I used to stand at street corners and wink at girls, and all sorts of weird shit.
Having said that, none of it is religion. Be prepared to discover some technique USELESS and start using another. You will find about sarging venues and optimum times for going out; you’re in D.C. so I can share some stuff with you, etc.
My point is that none of this stuff is perfect and you will have to adapt it to yourself. PU requires a change in personality, but only you know to which extent is this change necessary. You can go as primitive and natural as you want and stick to stuff by Gunwitch, for example, or you can aim for gaming entire clubs and mastering the hot spots of the night life, then you would probably combine stuff by Mystery and TD, etc.
“I’m surprised no one has stepped up in defense of RSD yet. Maybe it’s because people who are actually having success have better things to do than whine all day about their personal failings.”
HAHAHAHAHA that is always the final cop out for an instructor who has failed, or is losing “acolytes”.
That one is in THE public relations manual, page one paragraph 2, after “Buy your own hype”.
Hey,
It may seem like I’m trolling. That’s cool if you think that. The truth is that it’s just sickening to see so many workshop/seminar groups popping all over the place. As was the case several years ago when so many people were selling ebooks. It was a craze. Unfortunately many of the ebooks did suck.
Now taking the same logic. Few original seminar/wkshop have stayed alive because they’ve provided proof. Then all of a sudden just like the ebook craze all these people began hosting wkshops. They all can’t be great.
Handsome Man, I used to agree with you about workshops. However, I don’t anymore b/c of one reason : price control. Having all of these workshops keeps the prices artificially low. Some of them are way overpriced, but you can still find some good ones that are reasonably priced. Furthermore, some good ones may even come down in price when they realize that their competition is taking away all of their business.
Like you said above, the bad ones will go out of business, so that problem takes care of itself. The problem in the old days was that people were fooled by hype and testimonials from friends, who never paid for the workshop….I call this the RSD affect.
Now, everyone is much wiser. Those shitty tactics no longer work, and guys need to work hard to earn a good reputation for their workshops. For example, there was a guy named Rockstarr who was trying to sell workshops. He used much of the same hype game that RSD used to gain fame, but he failed b/c no one believed it anymore. Only the good workshops will survive.
Competition is good for consumers…..
…and there are some real bargains out there……
…Fidentia and RSI are priced comparatively low to the market…..
….so they are good buys right now if you want to take a workshop…..
…..and that’s the…….
-Truth
Dudes….found this reply from TylerDurden on ASF….so it is very relevant:
original link is here:
http://www.fastseduction.com/masf/8/230009/
A pretty weird guy tried to extort us, claiming that he’d ruin us if we didn’t cough him up money. While I suppose that it won’t be good for us in the short term, I told Nick to tell this guy to go fuck himself, because if you give money to these people then more people will come and it will never end. I prefer not to even reply to these threads, because it just gives these people acknowledgement and gives other people ideas to stir up shit.
Incidentally, Thundercat knows all this, but decided to put that post up because he has business deals with other workshop companies and because he hates RSD over a business deal that we would not endorse the first time that he tried to go commercial and failed.
Thundercat tends to flame RSD every so often, hoping that I will post on his blog again in the same way that Ross Jeffries does. If he can bait me to post on his blog, then he can start muck-raking and get me into the “fray” along side Bishop and Ross. Don’t blame Thundercat for this. It is the guys who create the demand that are equally responsible. As are the guys who read a board that they know is a tabloid and repost threads like this here, unwittingly encouraging the traffic from Jay’s forum to divert over to there and up his traffic, and thus cyclically encouraging him to post controversial articles that he knows will circulate cross-forums. If just posting quality information is what drove traffic, he would do it. I don’t read his blog or reply to it (when you do this long enough, you learn not to read muck rackers for your own sanity), but in this case I had a few emails asking me about it. Thundercat, feel free to repost this reply to your muck-blog, which I do not read or post on.
Incidentally, we have many of these kinds of things happen since starting RSD:
-guys stalking us
-guys trying to crash our workshops, and having to be told to leave
-guys posting fake negative reviews (this happens regularly – I just read another long one when I linked to Thundercat’s RSD thread that is actually pretty intricate and totally fake)
-guys breaking into our house and stealing our email list and paper work
-guys who say they are our friends turning into enemies and hating us when we won’t give them a job
-guys trying to extort us
-guys that are my acquaintances taking my stuff and trying to trade and sell the beta versions I showed them even before they get released (A guy in Australia did this who was a friend of a friend)
-guys who commercially dispense non-field applied advice asking for our endorsement (I don’t care about different styles, but they do not go in field and are unqualified to offer advice), and when I decline they then try to do things to fuck up our business, while other companies that don’t care endorse them and wind up benefiting
-…and my favourite, guys asking if they can have free workshops if they don’t participate but “just come to watch,” and getting mad that we won’t let them and saying things like “Tyler, I’ve had a huge realization. I finally get it. I need to watch you in set. That’s the missing piece. I want to just come and watch you run a workshop. Or maybe you could just give me the list of clubs you go to, and I can just come and pretend like I’m not there. Would that be cool? Why not? Dude, its not asking anything of you. Why won’t you do it?!” I get contacted with this kind of thing every week.
That is a part of running a business, and I don’t sweat it. I just learn from it. Another decade of field experience, and I perhaps I will have something worthwhile to teach about business. I already have a text worth of good insights, just in the area of the social and psychological aspects.
I’ve never minded the stresses of running a business. I feel like its prepared me for a greater calling later in life. Perhaps this kind of stress is a sort of preparation for a job that is really high profile.
-TD
RSD (c) 2005
100% Content – 0 % Political Flame Bullshit
Oh please..
Tyler, provide adequate service in the first place, its well known you have an awful attitude towards your customers. If some guys are posting negative reviews ‘guys posting fake negative reviews (this happens regularly’ well shit maybe some of them are real.
Personally I think a lot of this is people following crowds, when a few people come out with things that are controversial and ‘juicy’ other people are like ‘yeah bitch I want some of that shit’ and jump on the band wagon, no matter what they really think about the issue. I’ve taken two RSD courses and they weren’t perfect but they were both definitely worth the money I paid for them. It’s obvious to be that ulterior motives are involved reading what’s been written having taken the program myself. Like the original post here, that guy must have been asleep because all that stuff is covered in the course. Things don’t compute.
Aside from that, the deal with workshops is that it’s a jumpstart rather than a be all and end all. I can’t see how someone can complain about “losing the ‘fake’ confidence” that a workshop gives, like it’s somehow the instructors’ responsibility for the attendees being confident and improving their game after the program when they aren’t there anymore. That’s dumb. It’s drilled in over and over that you need to keep going out and practicing to improve. Maybe it’s hard for some people to take responsibility for their own lack of success instead of admitting “I have trouble doing this on my own” and having the resolve to take steps towards improving post-workshop.
I live in England I’m not in the RSD ‘crew’ or even have any contact with any of the instructors. I think I emailed jlaix once to say what’s up and thanks for the help but that’s it. So I’m saying this objectively based on my experiences. There’s two sides to every story man.
You know, I use to love reading the articles up on this place, but it seems to be getting worse and worse since this place turned commercial.
Gossip this, Gossip that, Flame this, flame that. Who gives a fuck? Read up some shit, whether commercial or not. Try the stuff, see if it for yourself if it works or not.
MANKO SHARKO HAS NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RECOIL FUCK OFF!!!!!
TD sounds like a frustrated, bitter little chump. He needs to have more respect for his customers. I bet he can’t even tell who he’s customers are and probably gets them confused w/the freeloaders. As you all know RSD’s all about #s, that’s why they don’t mind making every place a cock farm. Fags.
BTW I did email “The One”. I was nice in my email. Now did I recieve a reply from him? No. As you Teone was part of that cock farm group called RSD.
Handsome,
As Mr. Miyagi used to say, “Patience, Daniel San.”
Consider that it is the weekend after all, and maybe that I don’t check my emails frequently because I have been out and about.
Take it easy.
The One
Hey I took an RSD seminar a few months ago, and I found that it was really a good thing for me in the advancement of my game. Sure it was expensive, but it was a lot of fun, and it taught me that if I absolutely have to I can use material to start a conversation with a girl or group of girls. I don’t do that anymore, since I find the high energy, material driven approach really exhausting, but it was good for me at the time. Now I’ve moved to a more natural approach, but without RSD to move me past some of my approach anxiety I wouldn’t be where I am now. Just remember, you have to find your own style. Peace,
jj
“IJust remember, you have to find your own style. Peace,
jj”
I prefer the sharko approach ..”I think you are a hottie and want to get to know you”
or recoil approach
” I would like to stick my thumb up your ass.”
Boys please stop arguing..hug each other
“A pretty weird guy tried to extort us, claiming that he’d ruin us if we didn’t cough him up money. While I suppose that it won’t be good for us in the short term, I told Nick to tell this guy to go fuck himself, because if you give money to these people then more people will come and it will never end.”
The FBI investigates extortion attempts all the time so for TD to say that he wouldnt give money back to some guy (they “allegedly” have a money-back guarantee)when he asked for a full refund unhappy with the service provided, is total horse shit. His first call should’ve been to the local FBI office and maybe then this never would have seen the daylight in court. The extortionist would rightly be in jail, but instead now we all know about it and I believe that guy having talked to a local dude who took an RSD program and feels like it did absolutely nothing for him.
“If he can bait me to post on his blog, then he can start muck-raking and get me into the “fray” along side Bishop and Ross.”
Yeah Ummm, when did TD begin to think he was so high and mighty that it was beneath him to come and join us. Oh excuse me, I’m not on the Hollywood B-list actors VIP lounge list. When you get unfairly discredited like Bishop did, you’re going to visit wherever you need to and claim your name back. A few years down the road we will hear why The One and others left RSD to start their own shops when their urge to release that tension comes. Major Mark is just starting to detail his experience in the Speed Seduction cult and it’s not pretty.
“Thundercat, feel free to repost this reply to your muck-blog, which I do not read or post on.”
YEAH RIGHT.
“-guys posting fake negative reviews (this happens regularly – I just read another long one when I linked to Thundercat’s RSD thread that is actually pretty intricate and totally fake)”
Blame that on one of the Speed Seduction minions out to protect their master. Though, really, not all of them can be fake. Even if only 10% are real, that’s still too much and people aren’t getting their money’s worth from RSD.
“Another decade of field experience, and I perhaps I will have something worthwhile to teach about business.”
Will you last that long TD? If those negative reviews keep piling up?
“I already have a text worth of good insights, just in the area of the social and psychological aspects.”
He keeps baiting us on this book, delaying it every so often but unless this book breaks new ground, it won’t be worth anything when it’s released. It’s probably gonna have a substantial portion of it from his posts on FS.
Your fault TD for not stopping the guy trying to “extort” you in his tracks. Program the FBI office into your cell and maybe next time you won’t lose a lawsuit of this magnitude.
damn…talk about making a storm on a glass of water. Look. The problem with the guys that go to the RSD workshop is that they DONT GO OUT as much as they should. The go on a workshop and do 50 sets on a weekend and they feel great, they talk to many sets…some go really well…when the truth is that if they did the same at their home town…they would have the same results. But they get lazy after a workshop…if its RSD or MM or whatever….and fall back to where they where. I have meet all the RSD crew and they are cool guys and give you the tools…if you dont follow throught after a bootcamp or workshop…then you will fall into this. This is the same for the Mystery Workshop, Badboy,…anybody to be honest. Guys go expecting to become PUGods…but without any effort…they put the effort for a weekend…get cool results..then they get back home without the balls to practice….
Ninja, where is Major Mark talking about his past experiences with Ross? I’d like to read this.
Thanks
I totally agree with who me on this one. The main thing you get out of one of these workshops is the kick in the ass to do all those approaches you should have been doing anyway if you were serious about getting over your approach anxiety. I didn’t expect the RSD workshop to be some magic pill that was going to turn me into a super pimp over night so I had a great time, came away with some new ideas, and pretty much got over my approach anxiety by doing tons of sets. When I came back, I realized that I had to re-adjust, since that high energy approach wasn’t going to fly in my small hometown, but I’m really glad I went through the experience of an RSD workshop. It wasn’t the final piece, it was just a good experience to help me figure out what’s best for me. Peace,
jj
I liked the comment by Alessandro…
added to my bookmarks
I don’t usually post here but thundercat I love this site but I have to disagree with who me and jj somewhat this guy who’s suing didn’t get lazy he said he didn’t get any attention and they were disorganized you go to these workshops to learn and get a little bit of confidence not to be ignored but i do think that the people do get lazy after the workshops when they should still be practicing their skills and getting better i myself have been thinking about taking a workshop (money issues) because I have problems with ladies but I know when I got back from the workshop I would keep practice and even maybe get my best friend to help me out because it seems to me that’s what a PUA does
Wow i didnt realise so much shit was going on the seduction community. Man you guys should be like david deangelo and stay away from dissing each other’s business. I don’t hear him slamming his competitors as you guys do, no wonder he’s the man who’s most highly respected
David deangelo is a cock fag
Hey TC,
Whats with the spam ?
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That looks like an affiliate link which is against the rules for spam.. Tiny URL has been used to hide it.. This is not thundercats fault oh and the affiliate ID being used is 5899336
As the business manager of Mystery Method, a lot of this reminds me of stories I’ve heard.
I can’t speak personally about RSD – I haven’t seen these guys in action since the summer of 2004 (back when Mystery still taught with them). There were a lot of things I liked and some things I didn’t, which is pretty much what I would have expected. I certainly didn’t get any bad vibes from any of them.
I think in a “credibility business” like this, it is important to offer a money back guarantee. Mystery Method always has, and, yes, we’ve even paid out. (Once — when the guy couldn’t get into the club with his European driver’s license and felt that this was our fault).
Mystery Method is the most expensive program, so we kind of need to put our money where our mouth is. If we’re going to charge what we charge, we had better deliver the goods.
I also understand the bit about being on a “high” after the workshop. That’s why Mystery Method has a No Man Left Behind Policy (also because it’s fun to have a cheesy name like that). So we have the Mystery Lounge, we have 6 monthly followup phone calls with Mystery for over an hour long each, and we circle back with most of our students after a few months to see how they’re doing.
I think Badboy also offers a money back guarantee, but I’m not sure.
Mystery workshops shit on RSD’s, it terms of teaching and programme development. RSD was supposed to be an evolution but turned out to be a poor mans version.
If you want the real thing, go Mystery.
You know what is funny: Yates and I have been in business 14 years and not ONCE have we had a complaint from anyone claiming they were entitled to a refund but didn’t get it. Not one complaint, not one lawsuit. Zip, nada, ZERO.
Even Ninja, who lies his ass off about being at London and Speed Life and who claims to have gotten nothing from these events, has NOT claimed he asked for but was refused a refund(No changing your story now, Ninja. Surely if this had been the case you would have been screaming about it).
If we are the crooks and crazies that Thundy insists we are, where are the refund complaints?
By contrast, RSD has been in biz about 2 years and already we see their problems.
Kisses, Thundy, Bishy, Ninja and the rest of the smearers, liars, and flakes.
RJ
93/93
Didn’t Thundy already go over these points with us? Being part of the SS cult, no one is allowed to challenge YOUR authority.
Let’s put up those bulletpoints again:
From Bishop:
This creates a need in the student to please him, so they can receive the reward of this precious “forbidden stuff.” The student thus praises him in front of other students to gain the “forbidden stuff” (resulting in social proof to the other students) he uses the student as proof that his stuff works, thus creating a cycle of students eager to be a part of this elite group of “knowers of the forbidden stuff.”
To sum this up, you anchor our asses during the seminar so well that anyone of those poor souls looking for a new direction (nude erection) follow you like the sheeple they are and will in no way challenge you for a refund fearful of what you COULD do to them.
All of us are on to you Ross with the way you have built your cult. I was strong enough not to be taken in by it all. Keep the money and I hope the market settles all of this instead of your shameless use of anchoring us to your products during seminars. If RSD sucks, then they will dissolve functioning as an entity. What’s funny is that in the movie Fight Club, Tyler Durden travelled all across the country “recruiting” little soldiers for the exclusive club. Ross is the one who has successfully done that over the years.
Click here for revealing comments on the SS cult and how to unbrainwash yourself
You know Ross, you can shut me and the rest of us up by posting pictures of you and your ladies. Bishop has allowed us to see his stable of women, it’s your turn now.
Simple request, send it to Thundy and he’ll post it like he posted Bishop’s pictures. NO PHOTOSHOOT MODELS ALLOWED. Real-life Ross Jeffries sarged ladies ONLY.