RSD Lawsuit

June 3, 2005 by  
Filed under Drama & Rumors

Word has it that Real Social Dynamics has just lost a lawsuit with a dissatisfied customer.

I don’t know all the details about what went down, but I did find this from the Rip-Off Report which details some of the specifics. 

Background:
I had signed up with a company
named Real Social Dynamics, who teach men how to connect with women in
the dating scene on deeper levels, or to “pick up” on women for lack of
a better word. The theme of their product deals with what is known as
‘material,’ or canned stories, routines, and opening lines used to
engage groups of people with. The course basically consisted of going
to public venues with the instructors for most of the day and ending
usually at 2:30 – 3:00 at night/early morning. During this time, they
would force me into groups of people.

I was clearly tricked into this by their marketing techniques and
false internet advertising. I had signed up for their most expensive
package which included three days and nights of personal one-on-one
coaching.

Before signing up, I carefully read the itinerary on their web site.
Their introduction and main pages state that students will learn:

  • “How to Convert the Girl You’ve Been Particularly Interested In, From Friendship to Intimacy.”
  • “How to Properly Use Phone Conversations with Women to Your Advantage.”
  • “What Works in the Field and How You Can See a LIVE Demonstration of Successful Approaches with a Well-Trained Wingman.”
  • “How to Plan Dates That are Cost-Free, and Far More Fun For the Girl Than Any Standard Date.”
  • “How to Cultivate an Endless Repertoire of Humour and Conversational Topics.”
  • “Field-Tested Tips for Bars, Colleges, and Even the Most Exclusive Social Circles.”
  • “This is direct instruction of exactly how to do it. This has never
    been done before. Nobody else has the ability nor skill to attract
    women with this level of consistency or predictability.”
  • “How to "play hard to get", and "be the prize". Its one thing to say it, but very difficult in practice.”
  • "How to create COCKY & FUNNY material on the fly. Also, learn
    hundreds of direct examples of cocky / funny humour (several hours
    worth), and many derivations and subforms of cocky / funny humour.”
  • “How to immediately profile women’s personalities, to know what
    kind of approach they would be most receptive to. Many guys are not
    completely sure about what approach to use on any particular girl.”
  • “How to use body-language to attract, and calibrate body-language
    immediately to the type of girl and situation that you’re in, to
    attract her immediately in every situation. It’s important not only to
    recognize the importance of body language and how it’s used to attract
    women.”
  • “How to read body-language and verbal subcommunication of all
    women, to know when they’re attracted to you, and when they’ll be
    receptive to escalation. Never take another rejection – it is not
    necessary when you have the ability to read the situation with
    precision.”
  • “How to avoid getting into traps of cocky verbal sparring and
    flirting, or being entertaining, and escalate the interaction to a more
    intimate level.”
  • “How to make use of social dynamics, in a way that’s guaranteed to make women approach YOU, several times a day.”
  • “How to approach girls while they’re walking or on the move, in a
    way that they’ll stop immediate and talk to you – even girls who are
    walking past you in the opposite direction.”
  • “How to get access to and work the most exclusive venues, where the most stunning women are found.”
  • “How to tell stories, conduct conversations, and never be short of what to say.”
  • “How to quickly adjust to girls who are initially unresponsive to
    your approach, so that you never have to deal with a girl that doesn’t
    want to talk to you – get them interested in you immediately.”
  • “How to befriend the peer group of attractive girls quickly, so
    that they’ll be supportive and encourage the two of you to get
    together.”
  • “How to strategically meet girls while you’re with your own friends, and strategies for working as a team.”
  • “How to use conversational topics that will convey all of your best
    qualities, in the shortest period of time, while simultaneously
    increasing her attraction.”
  • “How to rapidly build rapport and connection.”
  • “How to comfortably escalate physical contact, in a way that the girl will find comfortable.”
  • “How to use phone conversations to your advantage. It’s not only
    important to know how to engage women in real life. Learning to work
    the phone is a massively important piece of the puzzle, which often
    goes overlooked.”
  • “Learn to convert any phone number into a get together, even if the girl is busy or not initially interested.”
  • “How to get girls that are shy on dates or on the phone to open up.”
  • “How to plan dates that are cost-free, and great date ideas that
    are far more fun for the girl than any standard date. Learn what sort
    of plans will interest girls to come out the most, and how to manage
    your dating life conveniently.”
  • “How to make girls comfortable being alone with you – "going back to your place", etc.”
  • “How to get women so sexually excited that puts you in total control.”

However, during the course, none of the above points were covered.

Second, the instructors themselves did not display any kind of
mastery that the itinerary outlines. The instructors could talk to
women and get their attention, but that was the extent of their
objective knowledge. Sometimes, while running their material, the
people would simply be non-responsive and have confused looks on their
faces. On the first night, we approached a group of one guy and two
other girls. The instructor Owen (PKA TylerDurden) did manage to
isolate the first girl while I interacted with the two friends. During
that time, he was trying hard to convince her to come back to the house
with us, using normal everyday, yet hopeless rhetoric. Given that this
woman wasn’t even very attractive, I was surprised to find us going
home by ourselves.

Third, none of what they did was objectively result-oriented. Almost
every approach would consist of me going up to a group, stating a
conversational opening line or story, and then the instructor I was
with would come to us 30 seconds later and continue the conversation.
Afterwards the instructors would try to drive the conviction into me
that the girls “were so interested in you” based on even a frivolous
small glance or hesitation on their part which could have signified
many different things. Then the cycle repeated.

Fourth, the course was unorganized. On the second day Nick Kho and
another instructor gave me the first lecture based on a ‘cheat sheet’
they handed out. This document was filled with abbreviations, acronyms,
and incomplete sentences that assumed that the reader had a knowledge
of what all these meant. Through the lecture, he would explain once
what they signified, but afterwards did not volunteer to go through it
with us again. Furthermore, I was delayed three times on a time span of
two months in excess of the original time I planned on taking it.

By the end of the course, not only did my attitude or knowledge of
social dynamics not change at all, but on the contrary, after seeing a
lack of both professionalism and effectiveness on the instructors’
behalf, my beliefs in socializing worsened. I can honestly say that I
am both worse off and monetarily down after taking this class. They did
not demonstrate mastery of the skills they offer to teach. They are
frauds with cunning advertising. I did not see any results on their
behalf or my own.

There’s a rebuttal on there from someone named Nicholas, but I guess the courts didn’t agree with him.

I wonder how this will affect the RSD business?

Get Your Free Guide Here!

Comments

90 Responses to “RSD Lawsuit”
  1. C’mon Ninja. You are saying you didn’t ask fo a refund because I brainwashed you NOT to?

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

    Do you believe your own fibs?

    HA HA HA HA HA.

    Ok. Then I invoke my super-hidden brainwashing epto-enne-engram zombie powers to make you stop posting crap about me on this blog.

    BWAHAHAHAHA.

    RJ

  2. weird says:

    I have to say, its really weird for ninja to say he wont get a refund because he’s either been brainwashed or is afraid of confronting RJ. That’s just so BAFC

    hey ninja. Im sure Ross would give u you refund now if u ask him for it.

    Won’t you Ross?

    And for goodness sake, do u know how it sounds when ur more or less saying ” Im only brave and confronting to him on the internet, but its so scary in real life man”

  3. Ninja says:

    C’mon Ninja. You are saying you didn’t ask fo a refund because I brainwashed you NOT to?
    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
    Do you believe your own fibs?
    HA HA HA HA HA.
    Ok. Then I invoke my super-hidden brainwashing epto-enne-engram zombie powers to make you stop posting crap about me on this blog.
    BWAHAHAHAHA.
    RJ

    Your motives are clear as day.

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

    You are afraid I AM invoking my $2500 powers to be at any Speed Seduction seminar letting out some super secret NEW techniques. Who cares really, you can get the better techniques on FS and Bishop’s new Alpha List.

    By asking for a refund you can pinpoint me, are you sure it was me or could it have been ANOTHER spy at the NY seminar? There are alot of people who have an axe to grind with you besides all the people speaking at Cliff’s seminar. My interest in this community is the same as any of the guys who join it, lots of sex.

    Relax RJ, I know you’re eager to meet me, maybe someday we’ll meet up. I refuse to sarge with you though, you might watch me sarging some of the hottest babes you’ve ever seen and then steal my techniques for your seminars. Don’t hold your breath, I know what kind of covert anchoring you can do and I will not subject myself to it.

    That reminds me, WHERE ARE PICTURES OF ROSS JEFFRIES SARGED BABES? SHOW US WAS SPEED SEDUCTION CAN REALLY DO FOR US.

    Still refuse to provide real-life proof? BWAHAHAHAHAHA

  4. “You are afraid I AM invoking my $2500 powers to be at any Speed Seduction seminar letting out some super secret NEW techniques. Who cares really, you can get the better techniques on FS and Bishop’s new Alpha List.”

    Oh please. You claim to spend $2500 on Speed Life, which you claim you found worthless. You claim you find Speed Seduction worthless. And the reason you didn’t ask for your $2500 refund for Speed Life is that you want the right to keep coming to what you view as worthless seminars, for FREE?

    Wow…with all that cash to burn, you must get chicks on your $$$$ alone.

    Your ass is showing…and Bishop’s tongue is wagging right near the stank-hole.

    RJ

    P.S. Sorry, I don’t even get near coke-whores and trailer trash, much less pose for pics with them. Bish living in Vegas, for all we know, those are strippers to whom he is “a regular customer”.

    TTFN, Ninjie!

  5. Handsome Man says:

    Ross,

    Ninja really didn’t mean that. TC anchored this blog for him to despise you.

  6. Ninja says:

    Oh please, you’ve sown your own seeds guru Paul Ross Jeffries. There are alot of people who have an axe to grind with you besides all the people speaking at Cliff’s seminar.

    WHERE ARE PICTURES OF ROSS JEFFRIES SARGED BABES? SHOW US WAS SPEED SEDUCTION CAN REALLY DO FOR US.

    Still refuse to provide real-life proof? BWAHAHAHAHAHA

  7. Johnny says:

    From Ross:

    “Wow…with all that cash to burn, you must get chicks on your $$$$ alone.”

    Um wouldn’t that apply to ANYONE with money? You don’t sound that bad off yourself.

  8. Heres Johnny says:

    Ray, I mean Johnny

    Still obessed with other peoples money? Is that cause you can’t make any giving away duckhunting seduction books? Hey, try dudehunting, that might pay off for you.

    Block the IP

  9. Shinji says:

    yeah Ross, where are your trailer trash whores? yawn.

  10. wondering says:

    Who says he likes women?
    I’ve heard people say when you can get any woman you want, guys start to look good. I’m just glad I can’t get any woman I want.HEHE

    Wondering

  11. Ninja says:

    From Ross:

    “Wow…with all that cash to burn, you must get chicks on your $$$$ alone.”

    Um wouldn’t that apply to ANYONE with money? You don’t sound that bad off yourself.
    Posted by: Johnny | June 10, 2005 09:19 AM

    yeah Ross, where are your trailer trash whores? yawn.
    Posted by: Shinji | June 10, 2005 09:35 AM

    HOLY SHIT! Johnny and Shinji, two of the biggest defenders of all things Ross are now starting to challenge his authority in the cult! We are making some headway here boys!!!!!

    The other day, some poor guy named Ryan seeking Ross’s approval called him, “Mr. Paul Ross.” Ross responds with, “Who is Paul Ross? I am ROSS JEFFRIES.” HAHAHAHA, you can tell we are being read on the blog letting out THE TRUTH and we are helping those poor souls release themsevles from the cult. Great service here TC!

    TTFN boys!

  12. Weird says:

    To be fair to Ross, Ninja’s time must be pretty worthless to say he’s not asking for a refund so he can attend more worthless seminars.

    I do believe that he might be afraid of having Ross actually see who he is though.

    But honestly, being afraid to ask for a refund and having such a worthless life that u have the time to attend seminars that are not worth it, all i can is. Ninja must have really nothing much to do on this earth.

    Reminds me of those pple who spend their lives being consumed by another person when that other person doesnt even know who he is.

    How uncool can pple get in this place?

  13. Ninja says:

    Weird, you silly, silly man. I see you’re unable to see that things have changed since then (life is funny like that) so you’re trying to shove attention to something else. Why should you care how I lead my life.

    There is help for you out there, get out of the cult while you still can. You seem to have a strong mind in that little head of yours, why not use it?

  14. Shinji says:

    “HOLY SHIT! Johnny and Shinji, two of the biggest defenders of all things Ross are now starting to challenge his authority in the cult! We are making some headway here boys!!!!!”

    *sigh* this is what happens when i forget to include the sarcasm tags.

    you know, i don’t stay up nights wondering about if rj gets laid, and post about it ad nauseum the way the anti-ss cult does. i don’t think i’ve spent more than 30 seconds total thinking about it.

    i’m too self-centered to give a shit about rj’s record. the question for me was never if rj gets laid, but if rj’s material will help ME get laid.

    Seriously, if rj posted pics of him with 50 different 9-10s, how does that affect my life in any way?

  15. useless eaters says:

    Shinji

    don’t beat yourself up. all the ss haters are like that.deep down inside they are furious at themselfes cause they can’t understand how it works. they have to use lines and routines, canned stuff, cause they have no creativity. can’t think for themselfes.
    they realize that the ss in the hands of an expert is very powerful and they really hate that.
    they call us cult members while they are the true haters
    like you said we don’t give a shit what ross is doing, they are just used to making an idol of their guru while waiting for the next pick-up line to fall out of their gods mouth.
    lol…i bet the haters will burn me bad now…oh woe is me.

    ss is the best

  16. YouMeSex? says:

    “ss is the best”

    Science disagrees.

  17. BTW, SS is a commercial enterprise. That means I am serving my clients/customers with my products.

    Of course I am going to quite rationally limit discussion on my customer list to my products and services, and those products and services which I feel best assist my students.

    Saab wouldn’t share allow Honda to put ads in the Saab Soundings newsletter, would it?

    As for a cult; within the structure of a learning environment, if anything, I do everything I can to encourage questions, challenges, and the students coming up with their own material. Over and over I emphasize understanding OVER MEMORIZATION.

    If I were a cult leader, I would never give anyone credit at any time OTHER than me. I would never have shared the stage with anyone. The fact that people come and GO, and that people often attain status and following(deserved or not), with me bringing them on stage, even making them co-trainers, should speak to whether I am leading a cult.

    Rev. Moon and El Ron would never introducing anyone as being as worthy of being listened to as themselves, EVER.

    There is technical jargon, but kept to a minimum, but the entire seduction field has it’s own jargon/lingo. Is the entire field a “cult”?

    I never tolerate people lying to me or cheating my students. Mr. Emery did both, so he is gone and GONE for that reason only.

    The rest have left of their own accord for whateve reasons. And many are still with us: Riker, Tom and Kim, Yates etc.

    Now, judge for yourself what SS and the associated tech(Essential-Skills, the Riker Enterprise) can do for you.

    I suggest you go to:

    http://www.essential-skills.com and check out the 3-D Mind, the best self-change technique I have ever seen in 18 years of studying NLP. Better than anything I’ve ever created. Would a cult leader say that?

    And go to:

    http://www.daveriker.com

    And finally:

    http://www.seduction.com

  18. Sh0t says:

    Best part of the seduction community is the fights between camps.

    Thanks for the entertainment guys.

    Your Pal,
    Tim

  19. Before I give my comments, I want to make it clear that while I have my concerns about Paul’s ethics and motives, and I feel that SS has become obsolete, it CAN be of benefit to the beginner who has not yet accepted that there is a more natural way to be an effective seducer. That said, on with my comments.

    “BTW, SS is a commercial enterprise. That means I am serving my clients/customers with my products.”

    As Obi-Wan once said, “It’s true, from a certain point of view.”

    “Of course I am going to quite rationally limit discussion on my customer list to my products and services, and those products and services which I feel best assist my students.”

    That’s logical, so I have no argument with that.

    “Saab wouldn’t share allow Honda to put ads in the Saab Soundings newsletter, would it?”

    Well, you should have used two companies that deal in the same class of car. So all you’ve done here is try to imply that YOU are the Saab and the others are Honda. I would have expected a higher level of subliminal wording from someone who has studied such techniques.

    “As for a cult; within the structure of a learning environment, if anything, I do everything I can to encourage questions, challenges, and the students coming up with their own material. Over and over I emphasize understanding OVER MEMORIZATION.”

    Yes, but you can be quite ridgid with the boundaries in which you “encourage” them to do these things. And you emphasize understanding ONLY in ways that fit how YOU see things. You do not alloow them to think “outside the box” you create, you try and keep them IN that box. But, I will agree that you had discouraged memorization, as that interferred with grasping the meaning and reasons behind the words. Yet, still, you are rigid in not encouraging them to see possibilities OUTSIDE the possibilities YOU feel they need to see.

    “If I were a cult leader, I would never give anyone credit at any time OTHER than me.”

    That’s a pretty broad statement. NEVER? At ANY time? So, if someone EVER gives credit to someone other than themself, they CAN’T possibly be a cult leader????? You once told me that organized religion was just a cult, and that the Televangelists were cult leaders. Yet they give credit to other people besides themselves. So has your recent display of religious quoting mean that you no longer feel that way because you’re now a part of that congregation????

    “I would never have shared the stage with anyone. The fact that people come and GO, and that people often attain status and following(deserved or not), with me bringing them on stage, even making them co-trainers, should speak to whether I am leading a cult.”

    I’m curious which kind of cults you’re comparing yourself to? Sounds like you’re only using religious cults to compare yourself to. Uh, that book you had lent to me, “The Puppet Masters” I think it was. Didn’t that book go into the cult tactics of a group OTHER than the religious kind? I gave the book back to you, so I can’t check to be sure.

    Plus, let’s look at who you’ve shared the stage with. To date, you have YET to share the stage with someone who had not FIRST been a student of yours, a friend of yours (or a friend of a friend/friend of a business partner/friend of a student), or someone you have a business relationship with. So who do you think you’re trying to fool?????

    “Rev. Moon and El Ron would never introducing anyone as being as worthy of being listened to as themselves, EVER.”

    Again, these are RELIGIOUS based groups. So are you comparing them to you, because you consider SS to be the religion you teach? That right there should make people wonder.

    “There is technical jargon, but kept to a minimum, but the entire seduction field has it’s own jargon/lingo. Is the entire field a “cult”?”

    The “jargon” is not what makes a group a cult. It’s the motives and manipulations of the one leading it. All groups COULD become cults, if the leader were to manipulate his/her followers into thinking his/her group is the only one worth learning from, and to have the mindset that his/her followers are beneath him/her.

    “I never tolerate people lying to me or cheating my students. Mr. Emery did both, so he is gone and GONE for that reason only.”

    That’s priceless coming from the guy who threw his ethics out the door just so he could get phsycial with the hypnotized girlfriend of a trusted friend, instead of getting a woman of his own.

    “The rest have left of their own accord for whateve reasons. And many are still with us: Riker, Tom and Kim, Yates etc.”

    Gee, I wonder what those “whatever reasons” could possibly be?
    Tiker, I have nothing but high respect for. The dude is the master of online seduction.
    As for Tom and Kim…Gee, let’s try and imagine why they still associate with you and why you still associate with them. I’d be very curious to know what percentage of their client base are just your own students. I’ll give Kim her props though, she’s got you anchored well. She gets you to supplicate, AND to promote the piss out of her business. She and Tom must save more advertising money than someone who switched to Geico!

    “Now, judge for yourself what SS and the associated tech(Essential-Skills, the Riker Enterprise) can do for you.”

    Oh, what’s this? Associated Tech???? Dude, you can’t mention who’s still sticking around you, then in the next sentance basically say “I’m making money for them” and not expect people to see maybe WHY they still associate with you. Please tell me you just slipped, and that it’s not your brain tumor (or whatever it was that caused you to get all “Rev. Paul Ross” on this board earlier this week.)

    “I suggest you go to:

    http://www.essential-skills.com and check out the 3-D Mind, the best self-change technique I have ever seen in 18 years of studying NLP. Better than anything I’ve ever created.

    If THAT’S better than anything you’ve created, then you just stated that your stuff isn’t very good.
    3-D mind can be summed up quite easily:

    Take something that you want to change (like, stop trying to shag your student’s girlfriend, for example. Or maybe just wanting to stop procrastinating) and pretend there is a large circle in front of you. Now, place all the elements that you can think of into that circle, that might be causing this undesired behavior, as well as the emotions you connect to that thing you want to change (elements: lack of confidence in abilities, for example. Emotions connected to it: fear for example) Once you have all the elements and emotions that you can think of, in the circle, take one of them out, and see how that feels. Once you find one that feels better without that element/emotion in it, replace it with something else. So instead of “fear” you replace it with “curiosity” Instead of “lack of confidence in your abilities,” replace it with “willing to see what might happen.” Switch a few of them around until you find a “combination” that empowers you the most.
    That, in a nutshell, is what 3-d mind is.
    There, I just saved you money AND saved you from having to hear Tom laugh at all his own jokes.

    “Would a cult leader say that?”

    Well, a cult leader might ask someone if that sounds like a cult leader.

    “And go to:

    http://www.daveriker.com

    I agree. Riker is someone people should learn from.

    “And finally:

    http://www.seduction.com

    I’m not interested in talking people out of trying your stuff out. I am a big advocate of people trying products from MANY sources, and finding the system that best works for them personally.

    Bishop

    (And since we’re throwing out plugs)

    Go to:

    http://www.doubleyourdating.com

    I recently viewed David’s “Advanced Double Your Dating” DVDs, and I think it’s the best seminar product on the market. But most of you likely already know that.

    Also go to:

    http://www.cliffslist.com/seminarC.pl

    This is the famous “Cliff’s List Seminar,” taking place July 15th through the 17th. Meet and learn from the TOP MASTERS in seduction. EVERY Jedi Master of seduction will be here, so you should be here too!

    And finally:

    http://www.new-alpha.com/fos.html

  20. Kon says:

    So why is Ninja not asking Rj for a refund again?

    He said he has been brainwashed into being afraid and now wants to attend more seminars that are useless?

    Is he seriously like that?

  21. themagicmonkey says:

    either ninja is someone that rj knows well and ninja is a backstabber
    or

    he s bullshitting and has never been to the speed life seminar.

    if he thinks ross has awesome powers that will fuck him up if he asks for a refund then surely these powers would also help him get laid. (both him and ross)

    i bought the ss home study course and i found it hard to use on strangers . however the the first time i used my own “on the fly patterns” i started bedding a really hot desirable blonde that was within my own social circle. so there! b t w that was about 5-6 yrs ago and i have advanced a lot since then..

  22. RSD Lawsuit says:

    What’s the capitol of Los Angeles?

  23. Ninja says:

    hey ninja. Im sure Ross would give u you refund now if u ask him for it.Won’t you Ross?

    either ninja is someone that rj knows well and ninja is a backstabber
    or he s bullshitting and has never been to the speed life seminar.

    I was being laid all weekend and couldn’t respond to the SS Cult Boys. Nothing much to say to you anyway except…… Would you trust a guy who kicks and bans you even after you apologize publicly?
    Ross Jeffries Bans Top Student

    Look at ALL the people he has worked with who want nothing to do with him now.
    Why You Shouldn’t Believe Ross Jeffries

  24. Ninja says:

    From: Why You Shouldn’t Believe Ross Jeffries

    So if you do something MINE’99 doesn’t like, be aware, he WILL try to hurt you rather than let bygons be bygons, or even try to reason with you.

    He’s such a petty, vindictive, evil man, he’s driven away pretty much anyone who used to work with him or even consider him a friend.”

    “HE WILL TRY TO HURT YOU”

  25. Kon says:

    Hey Ninja. We are supporting you man.

    We just want you to teach RJ a lesson and ask for refund, which he probably will give. Why in the world would u not dare to get a refund?

  26. Ninja is WELL past the agreed upon period to request a refund. Had he really been so displeased, he would have asked.

    He didn’t ask.

    Therefore, he is a lying sack of shit.

    RJ

  27. John Henson says:

    Wow, what a thread.

    I’m the business manager for Juggler/Charisma Sciences. To clarify, someone mentioned that we don’t do seminars anymore. Thanks for the compliment on the method, but we’ve been doing seminars and workshops now for the past eight months or so. Our eBook is coming out tomorrow and things are good. Soooo…. check your sources.

    Regarding the refund policy, I don’t know RSD’s policy but I know its good business to provide refunds. We’ve done it three times – once when a non english-speaker couldn’t understand what we were saying, and twice when we decided that someone was not ready for a workshop after having met him.

    Finally, I think its absurd to think that you can go to a workshop on a Friday and leave on Sunday a master pickup artist. Will you be better? Absolutely. But you don’t spend a weekend learning Judo moves and then get into a fight onto Monday. You spend the next six months practicing what you learned, maybe talking to your instructor again (I know Mystery Method provides ongoing phonecoaching, for example), and someday after a lot of practice and dedication you’re a black belt. Juggler, TD, and Mystery certainly didn’t get to where they are overnight. Its why we only hire non-community guys (with one exception) as our instructors – its a lot easier to teach a natural the language behind what’s been working for him for years, than it is to take a community guy with limited skills but lots of ambition to where they need to be.

    Anyways, if this guy thought he got sold a false bill of goods, that’s a serious contention. But shame on anyone who sells an event or comes to an event thinking that the client will have to do no more work on their own after that weekend.

  28. Ninja says:

    Therefore, he is a lying sack of shit.
    RJ

    Who is lying, Ross Jeffries or ALL the people he has worked with?

    From: Why You Shouldn’t Believe Ross Jeffries

    “He’s such a petty, vindictive, evil man, he’s driven away pretty much anyone who used to work with him or even consider him a friend. Look at the list of people who used to be associated with MINE’99 and now want nothing to do with him…

    • Kenrick Cleaveland
    • Steve Piccus
    • Orion
    • Kamal
    • Major Mark
    • David DeAngelo
    • IN10SE
    • Swinggcat

    Why did all these people leave? Ask yourself that and ask MINE’99 to tell you why. He’ll come up for an excuse for each one. But ask the people themselves, like I have when I get to meet them, and they’ll tell you the TRUTH, and it paints a very different picture of MINE’99 than his marketing would have you believe.”

    We also come to find out that the reason Bishop’s Journal was discredited as a total fabrication all these years was because of a simple wire payment that Yates was too cheap to agree to when a fellow “brother” and business associate (because of Bishop’s Journal) was in financial stress. We come to find out that MASTERPIECE of work is not only REAL, but is a joy to read. You can see with your own eyes how accessible Bishop is on these boards with down-to-earth and applicable information in the real world and can make up your own minds about that.

    With ALL these people having left the camp, and RJ being the only thing in common all these people have, WHO IS THE REAL LIAR?

  29. Ninja says:

    Whoops bad link, here is a good one

    DYD Masters Recap, Day 3

  30. Ninja says:

    Wow, what a thread.

    Yeah John, this is the place to be for some action. Good luck with the Juggler e-book.

  31. Kon says:

    Ninja, we get it man. We’ve seen all that stuff.

    Ok we know u have been traumatized. Thats fine.

    So now we are asking, so why don’t you dare get a refund from RJ?

    Do you realize you are boosting his credibility by not daring to do a simple thing like that?

  32. Bca says:

    I’m a recovering AFC… and have purchased DYD materials and Thundercat’s e-book.

    I certainly have no clue as to the validity of this ‘lawsuit’ … but I find it interesting that if this person expected to become a PUA overnight, he has delusions of grandeur.

    I am also distressed over the infighting I’m seeing in this community. In the DYD Mastery Series, David D makes the following points, which I think are very valid:

    1) Understand that on the road to mastery, you may end up discarding 90% of the things you learned … and only use that 10% that works for you.
    2) Be open to opposing viewpoints. And still be able to take a direction and make a decision.
    3) He even makes the point that two guys have completely opposite approaches, but are both still successful.

    The point is, instead of bashing each other and saying this systems is bad … this system is good … let people look at and try as many as they want; incorporate whatever systems (or combination of systems) that work best for them.

  33. Dr Paul says:

    Okay, just wanted to post about all this RSD stuff, lawsuit, etc, are they good, bad, worth it, not worth it, etc. I’ve been to both high quality and low quality seminars by various speakers.

    It’s about consumers deciding on what tailored work they NEED, then going to the appropriate seminar. I’d suspect those dissatisfied with the RSD seminars likely needed either very strong pre-work on their INNER GAME, or maybe even work on the big picture of being a man in general.

    Just my humble opinion, but I think here is how all the various seminars out there click together:

    Big Picture of social skill: go to DYD

    INNER GAME: DYD, or when I manage to find the time to conduct them, one of my own (shameless but earnest plug)

    OUTER GAME: Go to BOTH Mystery and RSD. I feel they fill in gaps that each other leave out.

    If you want “one size fits all,” then GO to them all.

    And consider how useful all that money would have been spent buying flowers and dinners for women instead!

    Just my two cents for what it’s worth to you.

  34. Dr Paul says:

    Okay, just wanted to post about all this RSD stuff, lawsuit, etc, are they good, bad, worth it, not worth it, etc. I’ve been to both high quality and low quality seminars by various speakers.

    It’s about consumers deciding on what tailored work they NEED, then going to the appropriate seminar. I’d suspect those dissatisfied with the RSD seminars likely needed either very strong pre-work on their INNER GAME, or maybe even work on the big picture of being a man in general.

    Just my humble opinion, but I think here is how all the various seminars out there click together:

    Big Picture of social skill: go to DYD

    INNER GAME: DYD, or when I manage to find the time to conduct them, one of my own (shameless but earnest plug)

    OUTER GAME: Go to BOTH Mystery and RSD. I feel they fill in gaps that each other leave out.

    If you want “one size fits all,” then GO to them all.

    And consider how useful all that money would have been spent buying flowers and dinners for women instead!

    Just my two cents for what it’s worth to you.

  35. Chaco says:

    The Chaco who posted in the thread above is not the Chaco who posts on ASF. I am the Chaco who posts on ASF and I have not posted to this thread until now.

    -Chaco

  36. Chaco says:

    Who took a dump in your taco? There’s only room for one Chaco…

  37. PolishMexican says:

    http://www.charismasciences.com/about/aboutjohn.html

    Jesus ..would you take seduction lessons from some crazy shoeless fool????

    For the real deal go to:

    http://www.DynamoSexLife.com

    and save the straightjackets for someone else>>>>>

    http://www.charismasciences.com/about/aboutjohn.html

  38. Yuri says:

    Drama :)

    Lets look at the facts. There are no court records, only a “ripoff” report, and a post by TylerDurden on ASF. That’s it.

    So, really, nobody knows what happened.

    If you read the ripoff report, the guy lists all these things that RSD is supposed to teach him and he says that none of them were covered. This is hard to believe. Example:

    “How to tell stories, conduct conversations, and never be short of what to say.”

    This is something you couldn’t possibly not cover in an RSD seminar, and I KNOW that similar material is covered because I have friends who would not lie to me who have gone to their workshops.

    The guy also says that Nick (Papa) has really bad game — and I’m not sure if that’s true or not, but I met Papa at the Boston PUA Summit, and he was very charismatic and friendly. I liked him.

    Wake up, guys. Charisma is part of being social. If you’re likeable and friendly, you are much better off than a guy who is always pissed off and “runs game.”

    I seriously doubt that TylerDurden could have made all these really good posts without somewhat knowing what he was doing. I know this because my own field experience tells me where other guys are at, just by listening to them. If you’re intuitive and you know what to look for, then you can tell where each and every guy is.

    BOTTOM LINE:

    Even if the RSD guys are not getting laid, wouldn’t you want to know the skills that it took for them to get so many people to sign up for countless workshops, and bootcamps? And in TylerDurden’s case, wouldn’t you want to know how he captivated the majority of a forum into believing that he’s a PU God?

    Even if it’s not true, those things are still very valuable to learn from.

  39. The Distinguishing Gentleman says:

    PolishMexican wrote:

    “http://www.charismasciences.com/about/aboutjohn.html

    Jesus ..would you take seduction lessons from some crazy shoeless fool????

    For the real deal go to:

    http://www.DynamoSexLife.com

    and save the straightjackets for someone else>>>>>

    http://www.charismasciences.com/about/aboutjohn.html

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Actually, I would. I am working with the Charisma Sciences guys on some phone coaching and, honestly, it’s the best social advice I’ve heard. Blows RSD and Mystery out of the water (hey guys, do you think David Bowie is hot?) – I’ve got enormous respect for both Mystery and RSD but only Juggler & Co. have any conception of what it means to be honest and real with yourself and women. No routines, no stupid openers. Just amazing advice on how to develop yourself into a charismatic, charming, interesting guy. Brilliant.

    DG

  40. Hi,

    I would say that we all started with something and some of us shaped our styles with the one that we feel it was right for us.

    Years ago it was David DeAngelo the one who really made a difference on all this… why? because he really cares and he is a good marketer.

    When you focus your attention only in money and your intentions are not clear is when people react and “feel” that something is wrong…greedy.

    Ross J. Did a good Job even telling us his secrets in his Speed-Marketing course, but at the end all of them help us to find in one way our another our path.

    I have seen here in London how people take advantage of this situation and at the end the truth it is only inside you. (We could be a guide and sell something to oriented at the beginning but some people wants to keep their “customers” for ever…saying lies, that is not right, not in our field (it shouldn’t be like that).

    There is a lot of free material on the Internet, and it is only a matter of time before we should (must) change our strategies and find a way to “help” without expecting “always” something in return.

    Evolution and change are always present, even here, between us, who will go a little bit further this time?

    That was my opinion,

    James DeMarco

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