Kind Regards
May 25, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
There certainly seem to be a lot of losers trolling this blog lately who only seem to like to spew venom and spread negativity wherever they go. Though I can’t understand why anyone would put so much time and effort into such an endeavor, it certainly seems like there are a few bad apples posting that like to put people down, me in particular.
That’s why it’s always encouraging to get emails from people who actually appreciate the time it takes to keep a site like this up and running. One email I got recently, in particular, was especially gratifying, and I wanted to share it here with you all…
Glamor writes:
Simply …. you are THE MAN…there are three things I’d like to thank you for :-—————————————————-1) Your website (Seductionlair.com) :-No other website is more resourceful than yours… very organized
.. gets updated regularly.. and gets us the news from all those guys
from the seduction community (Mystery – RSD Guys – Swinggcat…etc) ..
and I know some of the stuff you have on your website is a collection
from other sites… but you pick the good stuff and just list them for
your members… Awesome.—————————————————-2) The Interviews you do :-First of all I just like how you pick the guys you wanna
interview… and who are really good and successful with what they
do…. I don’t like bashing at other people’s audio interviews but
there is another guy who is considered an advanced guy in the seduction
community.. and he has a series of interviews with pua’s .. but I don’t
think that guy checks the credibilty of the people he interviews.. and
I say that simply because one of the guys he interviewed really sucks
with women.. I’ve sarged with him… and also he took the Mystery
Seminar with me to improve.. but they lied to be on that guy’s
interview series…and on top of it all… the way you do the interview is just
awesome… although audio quality and the short time wish to be
improved a bit… but that’s understandable.. you are basically
handling the website.. the interviews and the books alone by
yourself… alot of load on your shoulders… and actually in the last
interview with MasterClass.. both those catagory improved great deal…
and every interview you do is different and has it’s own thing going…Superb work Thundy…—————————————————-Honestly there are few books out there that are good.. to the
point and easy to read and follow… some authors are good I think..
but they are just not that informative or may be they don’t know how to
deliver the point.I thought your first book kicked butt! … now I am not quite done
reading the 2nd edition.. but I am really really enjoying what I am
reading.. the framing things…. the confidence…etc. ..I really like
how you are touching on these subject because they are really
important! …I learned alot from the first book… it made socializing
and picking up chicks alot easier for me…. in my opinion .. (DYD Book
- Swinggcat’s book – The Art of Approaching) .. are all what you need
bookwise to be a pua.. and the rest is up to the guy to sarge and
excute what he learned….Seriously I am not bragging… when I tell you.. your book kicks ass…—————————————————-I want to thank you man .. seriously for the excellent work you
are doing… and I know you are not getting enough credit for the work
you do… you deserve alot more..but I do truely appreciate your work
and I know many people do too…. and I just read about your Euro
Trip… so that would be a good thing for you to enjoy your time and
live it up…. and I hope you come back in time to attend the Cliff’s
List Seminar and give us the whole recap on it… since I am still
abroad but hope to be back home in Cali.. sometimes soon…. Thank you
Thundy.. keep up the great work… Regards.
StevenTip on 
geinoutime.com on 
Manikyur_zsOi on 
Davidzeria on 
Nnbzcb on 
The final word on seduction:
http://www.sexisforfags.com
“There certainly seem to be a lot of losers trolling this blog lately who only seem to like to spew venom and spread negativity wherever they go.”
I’ve noticed this lately too on this blog and I can guarantee you most of the flamers are from the SS cult. It’s the same strategy used on Bishop to slowly but surely and take all your credibility away. I for one suggest you spotlight the Bishop and RJ flamewar so he can help put and end to the bullshit spewed from the faithful Speed Seduction mindwashed soldiers, it would be so absolutely in your best interest to keep this blog going indefinitely. And I wouldn’t be surprised to find out it was RJ himself posting from internet cafe’s all over California.
Ok Thundercat. I won’t flame you. Im going to put this as simple as possible. If you want all these people to believe you, do this. RECORD your SARGES on VIDEO and post them here on your blog. Its that simple. If guys see you in action. The case will be closed. That simple. If you think it takes alot of your time putting up this website…CLOSE IT DOWN. That simple…CLOSE…..IT……….DOWN. But you wont do that because there wont be another place where you can sell your “material” (for that matter..other peoples stuff…but wont flame you) So its easy…Im calling you out AGAIN…RECORD YOUR SARGES ON VIDEO…AND POST THEM…That Easy….and be a MAN and reply back…since you seem to ignore when someone challenges you but get all wet and excited when someone else has a PUA Challenge.
Thundercat,
I enjoy reading your blog and I’m glad you put in the time to post things, but…
You brought this on yourself. You repeatedly hammered on RJ saying: Show us proof that you can PU!!
Now look what has happened. People are asking you to post proof that you get chicks.
You might say, “Well I’m not pretending to be a guru.”
Yes, in a way you are. You sell a book called the Art of Approaching. If your approaches do not work for you, who the hell are they going to work for?!?
You can’t have it both ways. Either stop demanding proof of other people — and then people will probably let you slide. Or start posting your own proof — and then you will be in the clear to demand proof from whoever you want.
Last two comments are obviously from Speed Seduction Cult Members.
Thundy, you might want bring light to the Bishop and RJ flame war it will help you out. Bishop CAN defend himself with stunning skill unlike others including myself on here. It will take attention away from the cult soldiers trying to bring this site down and into the REAL behind-the-scenes action that we all never knew about.
hi thundy hope you had fun in “europe” where in france were you? i know it quite well. i think maybe you might be beeing a tad overly sensitive.FEEL THE LOVE. i for one really like your blog and i don t care about your motives financial or otherwise. i see it like a bit of a youth club, not everyone is going to get on, some people will kiss others will have their heads flushed down the toilet etc. i sincerely hope you don t think i was lambasting you, as your kind regards post from glamor (that you definately didn t write yourself)did you? come on baby) testifys you are doing a great service and i hope that someday soon you will be able to upgrade from your modest LA apartment to a massive penthouse like mine. peace out
“Last two comments are obviously from Speed Seduction Cult Members.”
no, the first one was, the third and fourth comments are actually quite reasonable.
(do i have to say now that i hate RJ?)
thundercat, respect for one thing: giving everybody the option of adding any comment to all the articles on his page, uncensored, although it gets pretty mean sometimes.
this seperates you from the thousand other sites that sell their ebooks with some sorted knowledge of masf. this email from glamor does not.
having said this – everything’s ok
I think some of the rubes are starting to wake up to the fact that most of the so-called “seduction industry” is just a big con job, and you are part of it you fat cunt.
Ho ho, he he.
Thanks for the site and the info, Thundercat.
I wish those who tear down the free info here would go elsewhere. Why not take the effort involved in making derisive posts and invest that same energy in creating your own site where you dispense your “real” wisdom?
Destroying is easy. Creating something of value is hard.
Malcontents can prove their worth by creating a better site or writing a better book.
I do like the fact that this blog exists to highlight good posts from around the community. I like it for that. As I am not a member of the paid site, I cannot pass fair judgment on it.
From what I can read from TC’s advertising posts though, it’s hardly worth it. His original posts on the blog are internally empty and simply repetitions of what you read in self-help materials. His book, a rip-off of everyone else’s approach materials. Seriously, approaching is something you either do or don’t do. You cannot learn it in a book. It’s about balls, firstly, and vibe, secondly. His interviews are of people whose full materials you can get elsewhere.
I love this free blog, it’s a good service. I think his business is a shameless scam though. Videos of him sarging will change neither of that.
Pffft, I don’t like any of that NLP shit, especially speed seduction. Don’t like masf with it’s openers either, honestly how many people are actually interested in knowing a womans opinion on who lies more? how many guys are interested in knowing her opinion about anything other than her opinion of him?
Isn’t it funny that this ‘email’ just happens to mention all of thundercats ‘products’ wow, how remarkable, better include a link as well just incase thundercat forgot which sites he owns.
“No other website is more resourceful than yours… very organized .. gets updated regularly.. and gets us the news from all those guys from the seduction community”
oh come on, is that a fucking compliment to you? sounds like a blatant advertisement to me. I’m pretty sure thundercat knows it gets news from all the guys in the seduction community seeing as it’s HIS SITE, why would ANYONE even mention that?
“I don’t like bashing at other people’s audio interviews but there is another guy who is considered an advanced guy in the seduction community.. and he has a series of interviews with pua’s .. but I don’t think that guy checks the credibilty of the people he interviews..”
aren’t you lucky thundercat? not only does this guy happen to mention your links and provide enough info to make an adcopy for your sit, he also mentions how a competitors product is not so good. WOW, this really doesnt sound like you wrote this email yourself now does it thundercat…
“Honestly there are few books out there that are good.. to the point and easy to read and follow… some authors are good I think.. but they are just not that informative or may be they don’t know how to deliver the point.”
Right…now prepare for him to list books that thundercat promotes as an affiliate…
This isn’t about thundercats products I dont have them. It’s about marketing tactics that are obvious lies.
Someone emailed you and it just happened to be an adcopy for all your products, which included useless points which would only sound good when trying to sell something and also spoke negatively about competitors products… aren’t you lucky?
You can go ahead and cry ‘flamer’ or ‘speed seduction lover’ or whatever other bullshit makes you feel better. The fact still remains this does NOT sound like an email someone sent and this isn’t the first time you’ve tried a marketing tactic like this.
Now I know all people lie and that this is business, but don’t lie and then when you’re caught cry ‘flamer’ or ‘someone who’s predisposed to disliking me’. It’s pathetic.
Address some of the issues here, people ask for proof, not for sales copy “emails” that were “sent” to you.
I’ll help you out with this one right now…
Since most the positive comments are from people who have read this site, surely you also have accounts at MASF, otherwise…how else could you know something like this
“gets us the news from all those guys from the seduction community”
so…since you have masf accounts
POST A REVIEW OF HIS PRODUCTS ON MASF!
that’s right, with accounts that are atleast 3 months old as well, none of these newly created account shits that think everything is gold, I want you loyal thundercat followers who praise his products and have been around for a while to show us your appreciate not through ‘email’ but on MASF.
Now get to it kids…
To all you flamers, this is the best free site on seduction around. Show me a better one or be quiet.
Thundercats! Assemble! Give me sight beyond sight! Hoooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
i’m a fag.
I would like to compliment Thundercat on doing an (IMO) very good job on filtering and collecting relevant tidbits from the seduction scene.
Kudos.
As for books, interviews, etc: There is one thing that the attackers seems to forget – editing and assembling information is a lot of work, the *primary* part of preparing a book. I’ve got many hundreds of pages of material written and partially edited. Is it a book? No. It’s many hundreds of pages of text, partially edited. It’s less than halfway to a decent book, let alone a good book.
The editing is what creates a good reading experience, makes it possible to absorb information fast and easily. It’s why we use textbooks instead of only reading articles or websites.
So kudos again, for actually doing the work, collecting and editing the information. I don’t know how good the book is – I’ve not read it – but even if collecting information from others – or maybe especially if collecting information from others – making even a decent book is a lot of work and a valuable service.
As for the advertising and attacks – I agree these are bad. I’m not against advertising in and of itself – I think Thundercat *should* advertise, to get himself some profits and be able to clear time to do more writing/editing/etc – but I think the advertising used is bad. I believe the form it use is ineffective, which makes it doubly offensive.
Same for the attacks. I think these are just a waste of time.
IMO,
-Eek (fellow seduction blogger, They’ll All Fall)
Guys, stop asking TC for proof. If he was getting women, then he would be more than happy to give examples and details, but he isn’t.
I have met up with lots of guys from the community and read many seduction sites, and ANY GUY who is getting lots of women is more than happy to talk about it. Guys love talking about their accomplishments, and getting even ONE woman makes even the shyest guy brag his head off.
Seriously, guys get 1 lay and they can’t shut up about it. Guys who get many lays are even worse. TC isn’t replying to your demands b/c as long as he stays quiet, there is still some doubt as to whether he gets women. If he confesses that he doesn’t then his whole fake guru status, that ALL OF YOU gave him, is gone. If he lies, he might be found out, when the details are dissected. Therefore, if he remains quiet, some of you will still be stupid enough to believe TC is some great guru b/c he wrote an ebook.
This site is NOT the best seduction material around. It is mostly stolen from other, more informative sites. This site won’t get you laid. It’s just for fun…..
….coming here is a way to waste a few min. a day…..
…gossip a little bit…..
…and even rant about whatever……
….but stop making this some seduction eden…..
….b/c it’s just not…..
….and that’s the……
-Truth
hey who_me, do u know how many megabytes would even a half hour long sarge on video would be?
And whats the bloody use of putting up videos of thundercat putting videos of him making girls giggle up on the internet? that wont show anything u idiot.
Honestly are u stupid or what? use your brain.
Have u ever see a sarge on video that proves someone has great skill?? have u???
geezz…. full of talk but all shit coming out.
i honestly dont understand why your posters dont use their brains before posting thundercat. Seduction sites honestly do attract low IQ people or something.
Half of them wouldnt be able to win a debate to save their life. Just look at the replies coming up to see what i mean.
I agree with TRUTH…But I dont agree with That’s all because….
Do we really need to look into the technical aspects of putting a video online and doing it or not doing it because it will be alot of megabytes….Come on dude….Look at the videos on PU media. Check out IAMTHEFUTURE…his videos say alot of what he has done…and he doesnt see himself as a PUA yet…Look at Geoff…when his videos were up…they where complete 5 minute sarges on which he number closed 2 chicks.
All im asking is this. If he thinks his website cant hold them…you got PUAMEDIA.com….if he is so great at aproaching! and Creating ATTRACTION at LEAST…he can put 5 minute videos up online. Is not that dificult.
But I agree with TRUTH….He wont do it because he has too much to lose. Let me tell you something and I SWEAR to you on my manhood that this is true. I was at the PUA Summit last year in LA. He went up to talk about what he does. He was nervous and sweating (if he was sweating in front of guys…imagine in front of a hollywood SHB). He was literally shaking. He mentioned that he was a virgin…THAT SIMPLE. He Said..I AM A VIRGIN. I can go into detail of all the other stuff there but that would be WAY to damaging for his manhood ( Like the Pizza Story Thundy)…All Im saying is that he is really a Fraud. He really is….and what I want to see from him is a few videos of him aproaching HB’s….Is that too much to ask?
Ignore the critics–your blog is the only PU blog I’ve seen that’s worth reading.
Long live Thundercat’s Seduction Lair!
Thundercat,
I enjoy this blog. Keep it up!
To the guy who said he was at the PU summit: I only caught the last 5 minutes of Thundercat’s presentation but to dismiss what he had to say because he was sweating is a bit of a low blow.
I don’t recall if he was sweating or not, but come on….
A. Not everyone is comfortable with public speaking.
B. Let’s not forget that it was hot and muggy inside project Hollywood with all those people stuffed in there.
On Skill and advice:
I have not been out “Sarging” with Thundercat so I can’t claim that we have winged together.
However, I do read the information that he posts on here and I can tell you that most of it is very valid.
As a matter of fact, some of what THUNDERCAT PRESENTS IS MORE VALID THAN THE INFORMATION SOME OF THE “GURUS” OUT THERE PRESENT.
(I won’t name names. Let’s leave it at that.)
(And for the record, I am in the field. I do workshops, and I do live demonstrations in front of students. At the moment, I am keyboardy jockying behind a PC, however
Have a good weekend all,
The One
http://www.Fidentia.org
Hey Thundy,
Im coming down to LA for the DyD thing in a couple weeks. Ill bring a vid cam and get some of your approaches on vid if you’d like. At the every least we should get some aud of them. Shoot me an email.
!Mystery
If you don’t have the space or bandwidth to post the video proof, I’ll provide it. Let me know…. BTW Mystery when are you ever going to finish that book? Hope that’s coming along; I enjoyed your talk on DD’s Mastery series
Hey Truth or whoever else.
If any of the so called respectable guru’s who have had loads of students disagree with me on this, then i would say you are more right than me no problem.
There are loads and loads of our students who if they filmed themselves all the time, there would loads and loads of them who would be doing number closes and makeout sessions with giggly girls all around. It’s not like it’s particularly hard to get good reactions once in a while. And then all you have to do is how the videos where u did well. It hardly proves anything. (Other than u really really really suck if u cant seem to even get one good result)
Yes go ahead thundercat just go do a whole bunch of approaches and just show everyone the videos that show you having good results.
Thats what they all want anyway. Of course they’ll find other problems to come after u after that, but thats the fun we all have here anyway right?
lousy arguments that don’t make sense and frustrating ourselves when we are flamed and reply with more senseless debate is among TSL’s readers specialities.
Intime, maybe the PUA’s should post the failures too–I think we’d all have a lot more fun with THOSE videos, eh? One idea which would be cool is to get PUA’s to tape their students then have a commentary about what went right or wrong during the interaction. That could be a kickass product.
Oh damn, i just saw a video clip of thundy sarge and god damn he is so good, guy’s his better than mystery himself. Mystery is a big fag, he talks shit all day hence he eats shit lol…
hmmm, 3 days on here and already someone is impersonating me. How flattering
(That last post wasn’t mine)
I haven’t been following my threads lately because I’ve been travelling, so this whole “TC show us proof” thing is a little new to me. In fact, I find it funny that it’s being “demanded.”
I do give examples of things I do all the time. Read the blog. I share tons of stuff from my life on here, all the time. I don’t do posts like “I got laid tonight” for a reason – this blog is not a forum where I announce to the world how much sex I’m having. It’s about exploring seduction.
There are a few people who post here that are friends of mine, and I’ve told them about success I’ve had and they’ve seen me out in the field. But this blog (for me at least) has always been about exploring topics I find interesting or problematic.
The information I post here is posted because I find it interesting or helpful to ME. I’m not out to be a GURU or the best PUA in the world. I see this as a little more than a glorified hobby.
I do brag my head off – to my friends. Forgive me for not wanting to share all my personal details on a blog where half the people seem to make it a hobby of flaming me.
The fact is, posting “proof” on this site is useless, because the people who still hate me will continue to hate me, and the people who still like me will continue to like me. The people who are demanding to see “videos” and other crap are people who’d never buy anything I have to sell anyway, so what’s in it for me to go through the trouble and then posting it on the internet for it to be passed around uncontrolled?
Nothing.
I do have a life and a job outside of this blog and my ebook and subscription site (and dispite what some of you might think, I’m not making enough off the internet to retire anytime soon). So it’s not attractive to me to distribute video of me running around in clubs meeting women.
So I’ll say it here: I’m not going to be putting video out. Don’t hold your breath.
However, I have been looking into the legalities of doing an audio CD of me approaching women to sell along with my AOA book. But that requires a lot of time to set up, tape, edit, etc., so it won’t be in the near future. Maybe next year.
How many guys do you know start bragging about their lays in front of complete strangers? Do you know how many women I know read this blog? Sheesh.
Truth, brag all you want about your lays online. I’ll keep mine for my personal friends.
I’m sensing somebody is feeding you misinformation. There are plenty of people out there who don’t like me and aren’t above spreading rumors like that.
I will say that when I first started out in this community and running around with the RSD Crew and Mystery, I was pretty hopeless. I had been with a few girls by then, but my ability to meet women wasn’t all that fantastic. Since then, I’ve had a falling out with the primary RSD guys and don’t get to hang with Mystery as much as I used to, so many people probably still like to tell stories of the Thundercat who couldn’t even talk to women.
The thing is, if you were to talk to people who hang out with me reguarly, you’d hear a different story.
As for not replying to demands — remember, I don’t follow my blog as closely as some of you. There are so many responses here it takes hours to read them all. So don’t take my silence as “I’m avoiding shit.” Take it as “I have a life and can be too busy to follow the petty drama.”
Never claimed I was a guru, but I know what I do does in fact help people out. I get emails from guys often talking about how something I wrote helped them get laid, which I’m glad about. It makes me feel good that I helped others in some way.
But for some reason, Truth, you seem hell-bent on exposing me as some complete fraud. I’m not above meeting people and going out to pick up women. I do it all the time. I don’t hide myself away. Hell, I’ve even guest instructed at workshops before. Talk about putting your money where your mouth is! I was showing students live, in the field, how to meet women. If I was a fraud, it would have been exposed right there.
The thing is, my book is about inner game stuff. It’s about helping guys break through certain barriers they have and make meeting women fun and easy. I leave the “hard” stuff for the other “gurus” because they’re much better at it than I am.
So I don’t make claims I can’t back up. If you want to see me pick up women, come out to LA and we’ll hang out. But don’t expect me to put videos up. =)
I agree the site won’t get you laid, but it can help you out.
And I’ve never said this is the BEST seduction site around. Just *one* of the best! =)
I think a lot of you guys need to chill out and have more fun with this stuff. When I demanded to see MINE’99 and his proof, it was because he was claiming that his system can get people laid and all the other systms (including Mystery’s) were fakes. Yet he could never prove it! So I wanted to see if he’s actually capapble of backing up his claims (which he isn’t).
When I start making claims that my shit is better than everyone elses, and they’re all copying me and stealing from me, and they don’t really get laid, but I’m the greatest — then yeah. Okay. I’ll put up proof. But until that day, you’re just gonna have to wait. =)
So stop being so bitter…
…you’ll turn into gollum…
…and get your facts straight before you call it…
“The Truth.”
Your friendly neighborhood Thundercat
TC, I felt you made a decent reply, so I want to comment on a few things that you said.
“How many guys do you know start bragging about their lays in front of complete strangers?”
Mystery can’t SHUT UP about it. You meet him for 5 min. and he’s telling you every woman he’s ever been with, complete with ratings. Tyler Durden brags a lot as well. Badboy references the women he has been with. Any guy you meet up with from PAIR will talk about successes and failures.
I have met lots of guys in this communtiy, and they all love to talk about it. Using women reading your blog, is just an excuse. No one knows who Thundercat is. If they meet you in real life, they won’t know you’re the infamous Thundercat. Therefore, your excuse is weak.
“The people who are demanding to see “videos” and other crap are people who’d never buy anything I have to sell anyway”
Is it ALL about the money to you? How about defending your reputation and ending the criticism once and for all? If you could, I know you would, but you can’t, so you won’t. Dodging the issue won’t make it go away.
“Never claimed I was a guru”
No, you didn’t. Other people made you into some guru b/c you wrote an ebook that was just a list of things you took from others, without giving credit. However, these people then want proof from you, which you can’t deliver b/c you aren’t a guru. They made you a guru, but it’s not your fault if you don’t act like one. It’s your readers’, for trying to make you something that you aren’t.
“…and get your facts straight before you call it…
“The Truth.” ”
I always get my facts straight. I don’t care if I am proven wrong b/c we all know what I am after. I just want all the lies to be exposed and for people to be more honest about what is really going on. This ridiculous fantasy world is pathetic. People actually believe everything they read and think everyone who says they are a guru, really is one.
“But for some reason, Truth, you seem hell-bent on exposing me as some complete fraud”
Not true at all. I only want everyone to know why you are being so silent and why their demands can never be met.
I don’t talk to many of your enemies (so i have no acces to this misinformation), as RSD hates me much more than they do you. I got RSD right where it hurts by exposing their workshops for the inferior product that it really was…
..in fact, my negative review of RSD……
…was the first of its kind……
….and I posted it here, right on this very blog…….
…b/c I wanted everyone to know the…..
-Truth
Most of u already know Truth posts all his opinions as facts.
He knows because he knows.
Can i argue down any of his points? Easy
“Is it ALL about the money to you? How about defending your reputation and ending the criticism once and for all? If you could, I know you would, but you can’t, so you won’t. Dodging the issue won’t make it go away.”
How do you know if he could, he would??
MINDREAD
Basiclaly everything he says is full of holes… but he probably doesnt care cause he thinks its the truth
My offer is still open. If you need space or bandwidth to post the video proof, e-mail me. I’ll make it happen.
Video proof of what?
That this guy opens sets?
Video proof for who?
A regular readership of the blog who cannot stand the fact that they don’t know how good this guy is?
Would anyone like to see video proof? Would it make u feel better?
Is anyone here admitting they can’t tell what is good and bad information. And is afraid they are being brainwashed by info that they can’t tell whether is good or not? And would like someone to verify his presentation of information?
Who here believes that 10 min videos show how good a PUA u are? Trust me, then you aaren’t a PUA and neithe rowuld u be able to tell if he is any good or not.
And here is another question. Is it a must for every single Dating instructor out there to post videos of themselves? Or is Thundercat the only person required to do such things to be considered some kind of honourable person?
Now_you_know, most of the reputable guys have someone verifying that they are pulling women. In fact, Mystery ordered everyone on his private lounge to show proof that they got laid in the past 3 months, or be kicked off about a year ago. The way most guys showed proof was by having another guy vouch for them having success, saying that they saw it. The ones that couldn’t, had to post pictures.
Now, that is the kind of proof that people care about. It’s the kind of proof that Mystery demands for his own lounge. Why hasn’t anyone come out and stated that thye have seen TC with women? Whenever Tylerdurden gets questioned, 10 guys come forward to state that they saw him pulling. You’re telling me that not ONE guy can come forward and say they saw TC pull? Not even Masterclass, who’s supposed to be his friend?
Does anyone even sarge with him?…..
…I find it very suspicious…..
…and the only way you can challenge my facts….
……..is with other facts…..
…b/c I only speak the…..
-Truth
Hate to break it to you “Truth,” but I’m part of Mystery’s Lounge, and I had two guys verify me when the event you’re talking about took place, which is why I was allowed to stay a member.
As for my “reputation” in the “community,” you seem to place more importance on that than I do. I really don’t care what my reputation is. This is something I do for fun and to grow as a person. My real interests lie elsewhere. So let people think what they want.
As for no one coming forward to vouch for me, I told you, I don’t go out with these workshop guys anymore. It’s easy to share stories about people who are constantly out in clubs meeting women. I also don’t go out 5-6 nights a week like I used to (I must be getting old =). And I mostly go out with friends of mine who have nothing to do with the “community.” So forgive my lack of defenders. I have a private life and that’s how I like to keep it.
You really need to change your name to “Opinion,” because that seems to be all you’re sharing here at the moment.
Thundercat
TC, you got verified, so there’s your proof. You could have stated that at the beginning as evidence, and that would have been the end of it.
As for you being “in this to grow”, that’s not true at all. You are in this to make money. No one runs a commercial site to grow anything other than their finances.
AS for you trying to differentiate yourself from RJ, while I have never met him and am not a believer in SS, I have heard him state millions of times that MM works great in clubs. Therefore, saying that he denounces everyone else’s method, is just not true. Which also means your demand of proof from him had no validity, and thus everyone rightly asked you to meet the same burden of proof.
Lastly, you imply your online reputation when you sell products. People only read your blog b/c they view you as an expert, and that’s the only reason your products sell. I don’t know your real results, but I imagine if everyone learned you were closer to an rAFC than a guru, you would have no more sales. Saying you don’t care about your reputation is not true, unless you truly don’t understand the dynamics at work here.
You can call me “opinion”…….
…you may not like how I interpret the facts….
…..but you can’t deny my willingness…..
….and gracious acceptance…….
…if I am proved wrong……
….b/c I only seek the……
-Truth
I actually hadn’t thought about it until you mentioned it. And as I said before, I don’t really feel the need to prove anything. But I’m glad you finally got what you wanted.
Okay, then I guess I’ll just shut down this totally free blog that I spend WAY too much time updating and writing shit for so I can focus more on my “money making schemes.” That way I don’t have to read stupid posts like the ones you’ve been putting up lately.
When MINE’99 says something “works,” he usually does so in a way that discredits what he just said. Like “MM works in clubs, but only for good looking guys under 35 who do magic tricks, like Mystery.” Go read all the posts dealing with my calls for proof and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
Then I guess I just don’t understand the dynamics, as you say. Honestly, I DON’T care what people think of me. If I did, I’d be deleting every negative and derogatory post that’s on this site. But I really don’t care, because it has no bearing on the fact that I’m in this to improve my life.
If people want to view me as an expert, cool. If people want to view me as a fake or a poser, whatever. If you think just because I sell products in addition to this stuff that I’m “implying” something, that’s your OPINION.
Honestly, if you must know, most of my sales don’t come from people in the community. So the people who buy from me and the people who read my blog are largely different audiences. You’ll see more hard core mASF/MM/RSD/Don Juan/SS people posting on this site than the average guy. So my reputation in the community has very little to do with any business I may have. And to be honest with you, I don’t make all that much off my book/website. Maybe enough to pay a few bills every month, but I’m hardly rolling in the dough. As I said before, this is a hobby of mine. Nothing else.
If you read what I write and think I’m making it up, that’s your perogative. But you state your opinions as if they’re facts, when they’re anything but, and you claim you’re stating the “truth” when you’re only spouting off rumor and hearsay.
I appreciate your contributions to the site Truth, but you may want to be more careful how you present yourself in the future, because you’re only proving to me that most of your information is based on rumor and bias.
Thundercat
Don’t let other people spoil your hobby.
Because usually that is one of their hobbies.
I hope many of guys here reading ur blog comments start to understand why they were bad with women to begin with, their lousy attitudes and their lack of common sense.
I really like debate, i really do.
I just can’t stand debaters who can’t seem to win, like Truth.
There are possibly books u can buy to learn to argue in a way that presents facts and pose questions that actually stump the other team.
Going on and on about how i know u work as an accountant because of my own intepretations through reading your writing and my playing amateur psychologist and other lousy conclusions that couldnt convince the blurest of readers on here is just kinda sad don’t u think?
But i guess Thundercat, u have also learned how people will always be debasing you no matter how hard you try. And some of us try to do really good work out there to the best of our abilities and we will still get criticized.
Then again, i guess its the tall poppy syndrome( Australian saying i think)
People only want to cut you down when you too tall. I guess u must have made it to a certain level TC. Congratulations.
Intime, I think you’re misinformed. I won my debate. I wanted proof and I got it. It’s ashame that what just wne on here has gone over your head. However, some good stuff was stated for the record.
For me, winning isn’t about whether I am right or wrong at first. The important thing for me is winning….
..and the only way I win is if…….
…. I discover the….
-Truth
Huh? What does Truth even mean by that?
Haha this guy discovers the truth….. lord knows how since the rest of us cant’t see it
And it makes him really happy.
Well at least its easy to fullfil his life goals.
Really like this guy. he’s funny isnt he?
Oh NO you don’t Thundercat…On the PUA Simmit I PERSONALLY asked one of the guys in the Mystery Lounge why you where there if you had said that you where a virgin. That didnt someone needed to have proof to get in….Which Mystery had said on a conversation with him…and this guy said….HE HAS NOT GOTTEN LAID…BUT SINCE HE HAS THE BLOG…MYSTERY DECIDED TO LET HIM IN AS A FRIEND. You wont provide proof because you are a SCAM
I don’t know who you talked to, friend (though I can guess), but I can tell you that you were mis-informed. There was a time where one guy in particular was calling me a virgin to try and discredit me because we had a beef, which is how that whole rumor started. But I can assure you, that’s not true.
I lost my virginity in college (late bloomer, what can I say?) and was out with two members of Mystery’s Lounge that one night I got laid, they vouched for me to Mystery personally. My little blog isn’t important enough to keep me around if I was in fact a fraud, and Mystery did in fact ban people that were his friends that weren’t getting laid (including his former roommate), so saying he let me stay on because we’re friends is bunk.
Don’t believe anything you hear, and only half of what you read. =)
Thundercat
so you mean that I should beleive half the information written in “The Art of Approaching” Second Edition?
Well then Thanks for the information Thundercat.
You’re welcome, you master debater, you. =)
Thundercat
Wow…you had a beef with him when you said the time you where up there that he was one of the guys that really helped you. OK then Thundercat…whatever. Plus the fact that YOU yourself said that YOU where still a virgin…and now you said that you lost it in college? Contradictions…contradictions…unless you lost your virginity to that pizza you where eating while you where masturbating (true story…TC told us his “low point” story) Dude….its simple…you wont post videos because you are a fraud…Why dont you go out with one of your flamers who live in LA and Sarge with them…that would give you credibility…or I can just buy you a Pizza….
He WAS one of the guys who really helped me out. But that doesn’t mean we’re friends or necessarilly like each other. I have a great deal of respect for that man and his abilities, but we’re hardly boosum buddies.
I was still a virigin when I was in college. But I also had sex for the first time in college (hard concept to grasp, apparently).
You can read my “low point” story here. It was the first post I ever made on my blog for a reason – to tell others there is hope for guys out there who are like I was.
Now, given the choice I gave myself in that story (ie: Kill myself or get laid), I’m obviously still alive, so something must have happened there. It’s been about 8 years since that incident took place, is it so hard to believe that things have changed?
I don’t care about my “credibility” and I got better things to do with my time than hang out with people who don’t like me trying to “prove” myself to them (as if that would help anyway). Someone like Mystery proves himself every night in front of tons of guys, yet there are still people out there calling him a “fake” and a “fraud” and saying he “pays girls to show up and pretend to be into him.” So if actually “proving” yourself still gets you the same result, why should I bother?
The fact is, there are people out there who are petty and jealous who will NEVER be convinced I’m not some pathetic loser, so I’m not going to waste my time trying to make them think otherwise.
I learned from a great man in this community to move away from anything negative in my life, and that was some great advice. I’d recommend you follow it as well, since you seem to like to hang on to poison, hatred, and vitrol so much. Focus on your own results and success. If you read my stuff and find it doesn’t work for you – STOP READING IT. Move on instead of hanging around and brooding. But if the stuff I write does help you out, then good. I’m glad. That’s what this site is for.
Continuing to call me a “fake” and a “fraud” is just misplacing your energy. Do yourself a favor and put it to better use.
Thundercat
The only problem I have, is that Thundercat is arguing that proving yourself is a waste of time. He even used the Mystery example to prove his point. He has also stated that people will never be satisfied and always criticize, no matter what you do.
However, Thundercat has repeatedly asked Ross Jefferies to prove himself. He has made post after post attacking RJ and calling for solid proof. When RJ declined, TC called him a “fake” and a “fraud”.
Now you talk about moving away from negativity. Are you moving away from negativity when you call someone names like “Mine ’99″, or when you repeatedly put someone down? I know RJ’s system didn’t work for you, but if you truly are moving away from negativity, then you wouldn’t be flinging as much dirt his way as you do.
You can’t have it both ways. You should hold yourself to the same standards that you hold others to. Using the excuse that RJ is a bad man isn’t good enough. It’s time to be honest TC…..
….either you feel providing proof is useless for you AND RJ………
….or you feel it is worth it……
…but stop with the double standards…..
….and just be honest and tell how you really feel;……
…..just tell the……
-Truth
Thank you, Truth, for proving my point. You said yourself you’ve gotten your “proof” and “won” your “argument,” yet you still attack. Now can you see why it’s not important to me?
Depends on how you look at it. I see someone like MINE’99 and his teachings as HARMFUL to other people. I’ve seen people follow his teachings and failing, thus causing more damage to their psyche than they had when they started. I’ve talked to people who spent a lot of money on MINE’99 and his products to not only feel they were ripped off, but also treated poorly by the “guru” himself. I’m privy to so many terrible things that MINE’99 has done, I look at it as a service to others to warn people about him and his teachings. I look at that as a positive thing.
Keep in mind that I’m not going on his email list and saying all this stuff. This is MY website and he comes to ME to call me names and degrade me. I could ban him from posting, but the more he posts the more he reveals himself for what he is — a sad, patheic bully. And I don’t back down from bullies. Sticking up for yourself is a positive thing.
MINE’99 was making claims that other systems didn’t work and his was the best, so I asked him for proof of those claims. I wanted to see that he could get laid using SS. His excuse of course was “It only matters who’s the best TEACHER.”
All right. Whatever. I let it rest at that because it was obvious he was full of BS. But my call for proof came based on his claims. I don’t claim to be an expert or a “guru.” I don’t call myself the “sultan of snatch.” I don’t hold seminars and have my face plastered in magazines or TV. I’m just a guy who’s figured some stuff out and shared it with others. My Art Of Approaching book is designed to help people overcome what I overcame — a fear of approaching women. My SeductionLair.com site is meant to showcase the teachings of the best in the field so people can experience what I did — a chance to pick the brains of some incredible ladies men. I don’t go around creating my own “method” or “system” and say it’s the best. I don’t go around putting down everyone else’s products claiming they can’t compare to mine. And I don’t go around attacking everyone who doesn’t agree with me.
I keep the forums on this site open because I like it when people disagree with me because it forces me to learn and listen to other viewpoints. It also requires me to back up what I say. If I was full of shit, everyone on here would expose that. But instead, I just get called fat by a couple SS clonetroopers who never get laid anyways.
In fact, if this WAS the SS list, Truth, I’d just kick & ban you for questioning me in the first place and then call you names and spread rumors about you to discredit you instead of taking the time to actually RESPOND and debate you.
Same for everyone else who doesn’t agree with me or flames me.
But I don’t because I want to promote open discussion about these topics. So if you want to keep attacking me for whatever reason, you’re free to. Just don’t expect me to spend much more time addressing your concerns. I can only go in circles for so long until I get dizzy. =)
Thundercat
I’m not attacking you at all. I asked for proof, and I got it. End of discussion as far as I am concerned. As for getting banned from the SS list, I wouldn’t know about that, b/c I never have, nor will I ever be, a customer of Ross Jefferies.
Yet, I don’t see him making any claims that I haven’t heard others make. I have seen many people feel ripped off by many systems, for lots of money. RJ isn’t guilty of anything that everyone else isn’t doing. That may not make it right, but he certainly shouldn’t be singled out.
The more I am around this community, the more I see things more clearly. No product will truly improve anyone’s skill with women to any high degree. None of these gurus are anything more than average guys, who have sex with lots of women for one reason or another.
If you practice really hard and work on improving your life, you’ll be successful with women. Some people get scammed by RJ, others get scammed by RSD, and I bet there are lots of people out there who got scammed by lots of other people. We all make mistakes with how we spend our money, b/c we so badly think that someone’s product will rub off on us. However, it will not, and we need to decide if the info. is worth the investment.
You can’t blame RJ for his product not working, just like I can’t blame RSD anymore. Face it, we all fell for the hype and the illusion that THIS product could give us success. Once you realize it’s all bullshit, it’s better to just warn everyone once and then move on….
…and that’s the….
-Truth
my dear Truth
the reason why no product will improve u is possibly because u have an inability to learn.
=======================================
Truth said:
No product will truly improve anyone’s skill with women to any high degree.
We all make mistakes with how we spend our money, b/c we so badly think that someone’s product will rub off on us. However, it will not,
=====================================
I have instructed others including friends and they have become much more attractive to females as a result, it may not be “product” since i don’t sell it but if you ask them they will tell you the simple teachings is worth more than money to them.
This area can be taught. And people do improve from learning even the simplest things.
I am truly sorry that no one has been able to teach u with success, i guess no teaching method is perfect yet.
Do not speak for the rest of the world, understand what is truth and what is opinion.
….and that’s my …..
opinion
Intime, there is a huge difference between modeling someone who is successful over a period of time, and buying some product and /or workshop that only lasts a few days. The reason for this is b/c modeling over a long period of time also encompasses field work, which is the only way to truly improve.
Workshops may get you to open more successfully, or to correct an SP, but there is only a limited amount of change that can be made in 3 days. As for ebooks or CD’s, they still require you to go out and test the material to develop your own style (b/c it’s difficult to steal someone else’s style). They do work, but there is only a limited effect that they will have, which is why I stated that they will not make much of a difference.
Unless you are a guy who believes there are 100′s of things you need to learn, in a specific order, b4 you can get laid, and that you must master each one. That attidue would imply that each piece of info. had a huge amount of value, and that you need to pay repeatedly to learn each one. However, that attitude towards game is only used by those who have multiple products to sell and by their followers. Most people have taken a more large chunk view of game, and realize that it’s experience and self-improvement that gets results, both of which can only be purchased in limited amounts from a product or workshop.
Modeling can work to a degree, as long as the guy you are modeling in the field has better game than you. The problem with modeling is you also adapt the SP’s of the person you modeled, if you are not careful. However, it does account for the improvements of many people who actually do get good, but clearly it is different from a workshop/product b/c it doesn’t impose the time-constraints of a workshop and also has more real-time experience than just reading an ebook.
“my dear Truth
the reason why no product will improve u is possibly because u have an inability to learn.”
Well, obviously my ability to graduate HS and College by passing all of my tests proves that I do have the ability to learn. I doubt you believe that I was born with all of that knowledge, so clearly I learned it somehow. Therefore, you are WRONG that I have an inability to learn.
Well, master debater, who in his own words “hates people who lose debates”, how does it feel to have lost that one? How does it feel to be proven wrong? Do you hate yourself now, or was your statement above, about hating those who lose debates just a cover-up for another reason that you don’t like me? You can be honest Intime……
…..just admit that you fear the……..
-Truth
If anyone here feels i have ever lost to you in a debate, i’d buy you dinner man.
Like i said, i know people who have changed their lives learning from verbal instruction or just reading material. And you said it cannot happen. Im just stating it can happen.
I was only arguing these words, nothing else. You are going off topic my friend.
=======================================
Truth said:
No product will truly improve anyone’s skill with women to any high degree.
We all make mistakes with how we spend our money, b/c we so badly think that someone’s product will rub off on us. However, it will not,
=====================================
That is why you keep on losing debates Truth, because you never argue the point. You write huge paragraphs with loads of assumptions and presuppositions and use that to rant on about some general view.
DO YOU WANT AN EXAMPLE OF HOW U ARGUE? Sure no problem.
Buying a product or attending a program is only as good as the product or program is. Which means, im sure u’ll agree that since attending a program has in his own opinion improved someone’s life to a certain degree, and he feels the program is worth the money. That program even if conducted by me, is something that he was glad to have taken, regardless of whether I am the teacher and have charged him 5000 dollars.
There is a huge difference between knowing the truth and having an opinion. And i think you are admitting that you only have some pretty bad opinions. Educational products are meant to teach something. If enough people feel that they have gained value from a product, your argument becomes a mute point. And people can learn from reading a book or receiving short term instruction from someone else.
Oh btw, aint it great hearing from someone that his definition of GAME is “experience and self improvement”. Great anytime someone asks me, “hey i don’t know why i can’t get that girl to like me, ive been so nice to her.”
I will give him Truth’s amazing advice. Hey man, go approach 10000 sets of females and learn from your mistakes and concentrate on self improvement. TADA!
SO in conclusion it is proven that Truth presentations have a lack of logical sense and it is supported by everyone who reads his post. Yup that’s the Truth.
Well Truth would feel that all i have written above is actually my great arguments which he would then post another long post full of opinions and then end it with ……….and thats the…. truth
But thats the way he “argues” so he probably has no idea that this is an ineffective way to argue.
The thing is when you argue in such a way that doesnt even address the points to be argued in the last post in a specific way, it just goes off into generalties that can basically go on forever. How are you supposed to be winning like that? It’s more like a politician talking to reporters.
I’m not a master debater, not even a good one. You just happen to be a crap one
Since you supposedly have an ability to learn…learn from this.