The Value of being Valuable
March 12, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis
Lately, I’ve had the opportunity to hang out with some of the big guns in the community — people like Mystery, Swinggcat, Tyler Durden, etc. It has been a real treat to discuss tactics and philosophy with them and to get the opportunity to analyze their games. And from that analysis I’ve come to more than a few interesting realizations…
But the most important realization that I’ve come to is that there’s 1 thing — 1 fundamental thing — that every Pick-Up Artist does that helps them attract women. It’s such a simple yet powerful concept, and I see it time and time again, in the interactions that any guy who gets laid has.
So what is this one thing?
In a word: Value.
The guys out there who are the MOST successful with women create a value for themselves. When you’re good looking, you have a certain kind of value. The same goes for you if you’re rich or famous or powerful in some way. Those things have an inherent value in them, and that is what gets women attracted to guys who have that stuff.
But what about those of us who don’t have inherent value? The “average joes,” so to speak?
Well, that’s what has made my interactions with the top PUAs so interesting. Because I’ve gotten to see how they create VALUE for themselves. It is a powerful pick-up tool, and one that I have neglected for the longest time. But as I broke down what I’ve witnessed from the top guys and their interactions with women, I cannot ignore the value of CREATING value for yourself.
They Mystery camp would call this DHV, or the “Demonstration of Higher Value.” This really came to my attention when I had a conversation with Mystery about his Method, and how he broke it down for me. But I didn’t realize the importance of it until I saw him in action with those two porno stars we picked-up on in the strip club we went to.
And the more I thought about it, the more I realized that every PUA who’s GOOD does things very similar to Mystery, but not in the same way. Every method out there that works has a different way of creating value for it’s user.
Take Double Your Dating for instance. DYD teaches you to be “Cocky and Funny” with women. What C&F does is it helps it’s user to break out of the “I’m a wussy, I’m scared of women and want their approval” frame. It gives those who use it the aura of someone with confidence who is coming from a state of “non-neediness,” which is a valuable trait to have when creating value.
Mystery is probably the best I’ve ever seen at creating value for himself. Simply the way he dresses creates a certain value, because when he peacocks (dresses in an outlandish manner), he courts instant attention no matter where he goes. I’ve seen girls lock their eyes on him when he enters a room, and follow him with their gaze as he walks by. Just the fact that he catches their attention creates a certain ammount of value for him. But then he whips out the magic tricks, and it’s all over. The girls get SO INTO IT! It’s very much “Chick Crack” as Tyler puts it, because Mystery’s magic not only entertains the girls, but it captivates them. It creates an air of “Mystery” that is intoxicating to them. They become intrigued, fascinated. All this creates immense value for Mystery, so much so that he often runs the danger of blowing himself out because girls would think they’re not good enough for him. Probably the most powerful tool in Mystery’s “value creation” arsenal is his concept of group theory, and how he wins the approval of a girl’s peer group, or creates “social proof” for himself — all of which raise his value in the girl’s eyes.
But what Mystery does, though teachable, is very much a style tailored to Mystery. He is successful at what he does because no one else can really immitate him. That’s what makes Tyler so amazing to observe. Tyler does the same things as Mystery, but WITHOUT the magic tricks. Yet he is still able to create IMMENSE value for himself. How does he do this? Well, from what I’ve gathered, his method is more relatable to normal guys like me, because anyone with the proper skillset can use Tyler’s methods to create value for themselves.
Basically, Tyler creates value by creating and passing shit-tests for himself. If you look at Tyler’s style, he almost targets these shit tests that women or the environment throw at him, and he has prepared ways to pass these tests, and THAT creates his value. AMOG (Alpha Male Other Guy) tactics are a good example of this. Everytime Tyler tools a guy, blows him out of set, what have you, he demonstrates that he is more “alpha” than the other guy, which creates a value for him because women are attracted to “alphaness.” But Tyler will also create barries for himself while in set, be it having the girl think he’s gay, or maybe even insulting the girl to a certain extent. And then, he’ll turn this around on the girl and rope her in, thereby passing the “shit test” he created. But Tyler is also really good at passing LEGIT shit tests that the girl throws down. And this is where his biggest value is probably created. If you can pass shit tests, you become more valuable from the untold countless guys who failed them, and that makes the girl want to sleep with you more. This is why I think the claims that Tyler is just an immitator of Mystery are bunk, because their methods for value creation are VERY different, but just as effective.
Swinggcat creates value by controling the frame. It’s funny, because after my interview with him, a lot of people were interested in finding out the pattern he used to fondle a girl within 5 minutes of meething her. But what I’ve seen him do lately is that I’ve seen him MAKE OUT with girls 10 minutes after he meets them, and it’s with little to no buyers remorse, just by following his tactics in his book. And a lot of what he does has to do with controling the girl’s frame, sucking them into his reality, and prizing himself. This inherently creates value for him in the girl’s eyes, and because he has the dominant reality, if he wants to make out with a girl, no matter how high his percieved value may be, he’s going to get what he wants because the girl is in his frame.
This is similar to what a lot of guys from the “Gunwitch” or “Caveman” school of thought do. Part of “Alphaness” is about setting a powerful frame and going after what you want without deterrment. When you dominate the interaction with someone, when you become an authority, when you judge others, etc., etc., you are attaching a certain value to who you are, and that can make you just as attractive as guys with looks, power, money, and fame.
I had an interesting experience last night where I made out with a girl in a club for the first time. I had never gotten a girl so riled up in a club setting that she started making out with me before. So what did I do differently? I was just confident. I set the frame where I wanted to make out with her, so I pulled her close and went in for the kiss, and because I was so confident, because my frame was so strong, because I had an attached value, the girl went along with it, and I was playing tongue hockey with her in no time flat.
I’m not sure if many guys out there realize just how powerful the creation of value is. But I hope they do now.
Fobertrom on 
Billyquari on 
HenryKacle on 
Wscdanexy on 
Lewissarne on 
I saw this guy striking out with a bunch of fat chicks at club xes in hollywood last night. For all his alleged insight, girls cant see past his bitch tits and ugly face.
i watched this fucker tell a girl that she belongs in a petstore if this is seduction then I’m Saddam Hussein. Way to go man I hope you enjoy making a living off of belittling people and making them feel small. P.S. ever heard of Dr. Atkins?
Wow, you must have been that SSer I ran into last night. Glad your a fan of the blog. =)
Thundercat
PS:
Russ’s IP Address: 24.24.197.57
G-Money’s IP Address: 24.24.197.57
The so called Big guns are way overrated.
Their strategies only work in a few specialised enviroments that are part of western culture.
In fact, I am not sure why these guys are so well respected, Swingcats posts to Cliff’s list has been of little interest and value and most of Mys’s success seems to be based rather on his appearance.
Has anybody consided that these techniques might only work on a very small demographic section of western women?
Thundercat, I appreciate the contribution you are making by interviewing those that have acheived great success in the game, and your insights. I agree with the last poster that many methods described here may only apply to western culture (my culture), and in very specific situations. It would be very inappropriate to use some of Swinggcat’s material, say, when meeting a woman off the street or in the mall. For general situations such as that, I would recommend checking out Ross Jeffries, among other gurus.
As for the first two posters, at least Thundercat is out in the field practicing this stuff. It takes time to find out what is appropriate to use in each situation. One doesn’t have to be a master to be able to give valuable insights here and there, similar to being able to see the forest from the trees. I find I learn from the SS bros I practice with, and none of us are masters yet.
The above comments about so and so’s shit being useful in certain cultural contexts is valid. When I took RSD workshop guys to a local San Francisco hipster teen cokehead bar, they stood out like sore thumbs and didn’t do AS WELL as they usually do. And when I go to LA, I don’t do as well, cause I look like a “cool San Francisco guy” which is not as VALUABLE in LA.
VAQCS, right?
-jlaix
i am the walrus
All this demonstrate or display “Value” stuff is so goddamned vague in any case.
“Value” to WHOM? As defined by “WHOM? And delineated by what?
Yes, I understand the idea(and agree) with demonstrating that you are different than what she is used to seeing and that you don’t drool with lust or gush with joy at the mere fact she is talking to you.
But this is more “set yourself apart” than demonstrating “value” in some abstract sense that is still ill defined.
I think it’s better to say that you want to generate intrigue and fascination that you are different from what she is expecting and that you demonstrate authority in her world by showing you understand her WITHOUT letting her also take the lead.
SS is the best for doing this in ANY context.
All this stuff about doing magick tricks as a way to get initial attention is great but you must still transition to getting her to feel a link…..a connection…with YOU.
I think this PUA stuff is SO overfocused on bars, clubs and the psychology of the herd mentality/high school/who’s got higher social status nonsense that guys who OVER FOCUS on it can’t see the forrest for the trees. Or the pussy for the bush.
Om namah Durga swaha
Guru Rossansnatchananda
. “Everytime Tyler tools a guy, blows him out of set, what have you, he demonstrates that he is more “alpha” than the other guy, which creates a value for him because women are attracted to “alphaness.”"
Has it occurred to you that perhaps the women who frequent bars and clubs have seen all of this kind of thing before and that Tyler only seems more valuable in comparison to the idiots who are being blown out?
A guy who knows how to create intrigue, fascination and rapport doesn’t NEED other guys to play off of. He does it by his own internal confidence, his “energy’, how he communicates and how he is in control of HIMSELF. That is “alpha”. Not being better at slapping other people down.
You must ask: what kind of women are most attracted to guys who are better at bashing other guys? Is THAT what you want to attract and is that the ONLY kind of woman out there to attract? What happens when you actually want to be loving..oops…kind….ooops…display your own kinder side?
This “alpha” stuff as expressed by being louder, more sarcastic and slicker than the next guy might not be all it is cracked up to be.
“But Tyler will also create barries for himself while in set, be it having the girl think he’s gay, or maybe even insulting the girl to a certain extent.”
So he steps in shit and then by wiping it off his own shoes he looks better than if he came in clean? C’mon. Do you REALLY buy this? Or are you being snookered?
“And this is where his biggest value is probably created. If you can pass shit tests, you become more valuable from the untold countless guys who failed them, and that makes the girl want to sleep with you more. ”
Why view another human’s insecurity or stuck behavior as a “shit test”? Maybe they just don’t know what else to do, or are bored with being hit on 50 times a day.
Maybe by being solid and grounded in yourself, you won’t need to worry so much about being “alpha” to her “tests”.
But that requires inner work..YES-working on yourself and incorporating the beliefs that let you let other people have THEIR shit without having to step in it. Too “pussy” for a guy who feels that bullying is the way to go.
Dude, you are so in need of some inner game work, I almost feel like burying the axe with you and offering to work with you one on one for a few weeks to fix that shit-storm raging in your heart and in your head.
Imitating Tyler and the rest is NOT the way to go. Has it REALLY worked for you? Getting laid? WITH WOMEN YOU CAN ALSO LIKE AND RESPECT?
Nah…….
“Wrestle not with monsters..lest you become a monster. And if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you”…..FN
“Om namo bhagavate vasudevayah swaha”
Swami Rossasnatchananda
Have you and Ross buried the hatchet TC? Seems to me Ross wants to be your friend so you can promote SS on here more often than you do the PUA techniques.I wouldn’t trust him.Do what works for you TC.
It’s funny, but every additional post or message I read on game is no longer helping. I’ve looked at the best and the worst, and I’ve decided that my new philosophy is JKD. That’s Jeet Kune Do for you Martial Arts dudes out there.
While I’m not a big fan of Bruce, I do recognize his talent. Is his style my style of Martial Arts? No. Everything must be adapted to the individual. The best role a PUA can be to a newbie or AFC or RAFC is to do what the philosophy of Jeet Kune Do was trying to accomplish.
Take the best of what works for you, and apply it with your bag of tricks. Discard what does not work.
Make no style your style.
Try everything, forget everything. But keep in mind the philosophy that there is a way that will work for you when you come from the right inner belief system.
The only rule I’ve seen hold true in this Art is to PRACTICE IN THE FIELD.
Le Roi es Mort.
Vive le Roi.
- Carlos Xuma
(CarlosX)