Pick Up 101 All The Rage…
June 5, 2006 by Thundercat
Filed under Articles
There’s a pretty big write-up on the Pick-Up 101 guys in the latest San Francisco Magazine. The reporter really seemed to enjoy the workshop.
its funny, because Pick-Up 101 doesn’t really get as much press as a company like Mystery Method does, but I have yet to hear a single bad thing about their workshops. In fact, many people who take them seem to have very positive experiences close to what the reporter in the article shares (unlike some workshops which shall remain nameless, you know, the ones that start with an R and end with a D).
Those San Fran boys really seem to be kicking some ass up there. Check it out for yourself…
What does it take to get a date in this town?
San Francisco singles complain that the city is a dating wasteland, but Lance Mason is challenging us to an old-fashioned game of pickup. Doesn’t he see that men here are too busy being laid back and women too smart to be played?
By Jaimal Yogis
It’s an average afternoon at the Z. Cioccolato candy shop in North Beach. The young employees are bored stiff from hours of arranging taffy and playing with toy cows that defecate Dr. Pepper–flavored jellybeans. That is, until Jesse Hull walks in.
Jesse is a 6-foot-2-inch 33-year-old with a goatee and dark, curly hair that he pins back with, not one, but two pairs of sunglasses. He’s flaunting blue and gray snakeskin shoes, Diesel jeans, and a see-through button-down with fishlike creatures embroidered on it. It’s a style pickup artists like Jesse call peacocking, a way to set yourself apart from the masses.
Jesse is one of the many acolytes of Lance Mason, the number-one pickup artist in the Bay Area. As founder of PickUp 101, a two-year-old company that teaches men how to flirt, date, and generally pick up women, transforming average guys into flawless ladies’ men, Mason is the leader of San Francisco’s new posse of PUAs. I’m hanging out with Jesse after my first day at one of Mason’s workshops, which I am studiously observing.
If you haven’t heard of PUAs, you will. You may have already slept with one. They’re men who spend incredible amounts of time zealously analyzing what to wear, say, and do to attract the opposite sex. Yes, there have always been ladies’ men, but the new cultlike community of pickup artists is more than that. Using psychological games and other tactics, based partly on primate behavioral patterns and partly on Tom Cruise and James Dean moves, they’re developing a pseudoscience that is sweeping the nation. Many PUAs post their results and theories in chat rooms like MysteryMethod.com, teach workshops like Mason’s, and brag about their exploits and abilities to pick up high-profile women like Britney Spears and Paris Hilton.
Last year, Neil Strauss released The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists. The best-selling book, with its embossed cover resembling a bible, became an instant cult classic. “The PUA thing has grown exponentially since the book,” says Strauss, who is heralded as the number-one PUA in the country, having seduced innumerable women before meeting his current girlfriend, the blonde guitarist for Courtney Love. “In the past, I believed there were guys who had it and guys who didn’t,” says Strauss. “But once you find out that it can be learned, everything changes.”
As sleazy as the PUA trend may sound, San Francisco certainly needs something to pull itself out of its dating doldrums. The city has long been a notoriously difficult place to meet people. According to a poll conducted by San Francisco magazine in 2003, over half of singles say it’s harder to hook up here than anywhere else. In a city of cliques, we fall into ruts and forget it’s possible to fall in love with someone with different politics, career goals, or tattoos. Men let their deeply rooted PC fear of objectifying women prevent them from approaching them. Online dating seemed like a solution, but it often dissolves into the tedious task of r�sum� swapping, rarely providing the chemistry-induced adrenaline rush that good old-fashioned flirting does.
Still, many women are understandably turned off by the whole idea of PUAs. “Lines are disingenuous,” says Lisa, a 26-year-old graduate student I met in a café in Oakland. “I don’t use them, and I don’t want guys to use them.” Moreover, Bay Area women accuse the men here of flighty relationship hopping, and PickUp 101 may exacerbate the problem. Practice makes perfect, and some women could end up as lab rats for a zealous PUA climbing the chick ladder, hoping each conquest will be better than the last.
But Mason offers more than “a line,” in part because he knows the women here are different. “They’re smart, independent, and they have their lives together,” he says, “and they expect the same from men.” With a reputation in the PUA world for sincerity, his style is more Bay Area–friendly than most. While he teaches routines for beginners, he encourages men to abandon those routines once they feel comfortable enough to rely on their own instincts.
But even if Mason’s weird science does work, what guy is going to humble himself to take a class on meeting women? When I first heard about Mason’s workshops, I imagined a room of clueless Silicon Valley techies and Marina Triangle slicksters bragging about how fast they can get women into bed. But I discovered that these guys, like most of us, are simply looking for validation from attractive people—they’re just being more proactive about getting it.
Z. Cioccolato is supposed to be my first chance to observe a PUA in action, but suddenly Jesse is pushing me to participate. I’m terrified and uncomfortable. Even if I do get lucky, it feels a bit wrong to hit on strangers for sport. But the first thing PUAs learn is that women want to be picked up. As Will Smith says in Hitch: “No woman wakes up saying, ‘God, I hope I don’t get swept off my feet today.’” Besides, Jesse claims to have once been shy himself, unable to meet women who weren’t friends of friends. But now he’s acting like he owns the place.
Jesse locks in on his target, a darkly tanned clerk who’s arranging stuffed animals. I follow, my lower back in a knot, a response Mason says happens when we try to be “cooler than we are.” This is why, I’m now realizing, PUAs-in-training need routines.
“I’m looking for a gift for my 8-year-old niece,” Jesse says, using step one from one of the pickup routines he learned from Mason. “Any recommendations?” The girl points to some T-shirts, “Paris Hilton really likes these.”
Jesse now has to get her laughing: “Are you kidding? I don’t want my niece dressing like Paris Hilton!” The comment is also a subtle “neg,” a PUA term for a line that playfully cuts a woman down but doesn’t actually hurt her feelings. Negs make the suitor seem less needy, and differentiates him from every other guy fawning over her. The girl laughs on cue, and Jesse slaps her a high five, establishing “kino,” PUA-speak for touch. Jesse squeezes her hand—a test—and she squeezes back, signaling that he should move on to building rapport.
Suddenly, the young woman working the fudge counter slingshots a stuffed monkey at Jesse’s head—she seems to want to flirt, too. He catches it like Willie Mays, in a move that screams alpha confidence.
Impressed, I try my luck with an overly made-up 20-something woman who just walked in with her mother. “This stuff is great, but it’s hard to get out of the sheets,” the mother whispers, pointing to some body chocolate. Attempting to create banter, I weigh in: “Totally, it’s so sticky.” The daughter chuckles and touches my shoulder—kino—an invitation to flirt more. But I clam up, acting like what PUAs call an AFC: average frustrated chump. Jesse notices and swings in with backup. “Uh-oh, here come the party girls,” he calls out to the women as they turn toward him. Somehow, it works. They giggle and start chatting with him. The employees laugh. Anyone walking into the shop would immediately notice that Jesse is controlling the room. In fact, after a grandmother toddles in, it takes just a few flirty lines before she proposes to him. “Oh my god,” says the fudge clerk, beaming. “Who is this guy?” Jesse leans over to me and says: “Imagine. Life could be like this all the time.”
I first arrive at the PickUp 101 “mansion” on a Friday morning. It’s really just an apartment on Powell Street, but PUAs like to call their homes mansions: if you aspire to be Hugh Hefner, you have to psych yourself up. Inside, it’s a bit of a disco frat pad: a velvet love seat sits invitingly in the corner near a tropical aquarium and a wooden wine rack. A disco ball hangs above black leather couches, which frame a gas fireplace with flames leaping up from behind crackled glass.
Eleven men, who have traveled from as far away as New York and as nearby as the Marina, sit patiently, hoping that this $1,700, three-day workshop will help them reach their full player potential. Most of them are software engineers, but there’s also a lawyer, an actor, a professional gambler, and a firefighter. They run the gamut from attractive and stylish to dorky and clueless. Since this is an advanced class, the students have all been to at least one other pickup class before, so they know the jargon. As “Rico Suave” and “Sex Machine” blare in the background, I hear guys say things like, “I opened this three-set but was forgetting to kino. Luckily, Bob was winging for me, and he distracted her friends so I could isolate and run the cube.” It’s the kind of language you’d expect at a Dungeons & Dragons conference, not in a rehash of last night’s exploits.
Mason runs different types of trainings, covering everything from how to dress to managing multiple relationships, but this weekend is on Day Game. The more common Night, or Bar, Game involves being entertaining and overtly sexual, but Day Game is more subtle and thus more difficult. The key is establishing an emotional connection without seeming creepy. “Nothing kills attraction faster than being creepy,” says Mason.
Mason, 33, has big, sensitive blue eyes that have made hundreds, if not thousands, of women swoon. His smile says all-American farm boy, but his dress—faded jeans with a massive belt buckle and a button-down with an embroidered ram on the sleeve—reads like an Esquire take on California frat. He’s charismatic and charming; his posture exudes confidence.
But that wasn’t always so. As a UC Davis engineering student, Mason was a total AFC. He had had two long-term relationships with girlfriends who chose him more than he chose them. He was dissatisfied, but afraid to break up.
At the time that his brother was getting a divorce, his second girlfriend was pressuring him into marriage. That’s when things started to click. “I realized deciding who to spend my life and raise a family with is the most important decision of my life,” Mason says over lunch at the Steps of Rome Caffe, a restaurant known for its flirty waiters. “I needed to make it the focus of my life.”
Like a mad scientist, Mason threw himself into learning everything he could about women. He read books, studied films, and approached women constantly, logging what worked and what didn’t. Before long, he says, about half the women he approached were accepting his advances, but he didn’t want a relationship yet. He spent seven years learning about himself and what he wanted in a woman. He established some guidelines. No going out on three dates in a row—that’s how you fall in love. “I recommend everyone date multiple people at once before settling down,” says Mason. “That way, you see your partners for who they really are, rather than projecting onto them.”
Then in 2002, he discovered a community of guys who were studying the same thing. While it had not yet gone mainstream with the release of The Game, the PUA community was holding workshops and posting blogs. Mason signed up for a class with Mystery, the most hyped PUA at the time. Strauss, who was working with Mystery then, says Mason popped out as a star. Mason quickly gained a reputation as a skilled ladies’ man who had a mastery of the pickup techniques but also maintained his respect for women. Men started coming to him for advice on everything from maintaining a marriage to initiating threesomes. After a while he didn’t have time to respond to all the e-mails and phone calls, so he quit his computer job and started PickUp 101. Now in its second year, his business is quickly expanding, with nearly 10,000 people receiving his regular e-mails, and 30 workshops a year held here and in New York. Every workshop is booked solid.
It’s easy to see why PickUp 101 is attracting so many men. Mason’s motto is “Ladies’ men aren’t born; they’re made.” He helps guys looking for more action or even a wife, but also men who are depressed or too terrified to talk to women. “Half of it’s confidence,” Mason says. “If you’re not good with women, then early on you probably experienced failure, and each failure reinforced that you were not good with women. I teach men how to be cooler than they think they are.”
Mason sells himself as proof that it’s possible. “I’ll walk into a bar and establish rapport with a woman,” he says in his opening speech of the workshop, “and I don’t care if Brad Pitt walks in and makes out with her. When she goes to bed that night, she’s going to be thinking about that moment with me. That’s how powerful this stuff is.” What man wouldn’t be intrigued?
For our first day, Mason has created communication exercises for the students; they rotate among stations and act out hypothetical situations, overseen by Mason and his assistants, many of whom were once students themselves. Since it’s only men, they all take turns in the female roles, creating moments most women would pay to see. “So how did that feel when I touched your elbow?” asks Eric, a New Yorker with a Sting haircut, after running a pretend pickup on George, an actor. “Well, I liked the way it felt,” George says earnestly, “but you were a little too close to me, which felt invasive.”
At one station, men rehearse “deep rapport” stories—tales about their past that show their sensitive side. Mason says they’re one of the most powerful ways to quickly build a connection. “I don’t even use these stories with women anymore,” he says. “I don’t want them to get too attached.”
The deep-rapport stories flow for over an hour, creating a full-fledged therapy session. Alex, a former opera singer, tears up as he recounts singing Beethoven in Spain. Jesse weeps while describing a relative’s death. When I ask Jesse if it’s disingenuous to be rehearsing a supposedly sincere moment, he takes my question seriously. “We all have stories we tell over and over because they explain what we’re about deep down,” Jesse says. “Just because we tell them a lot, or even rehearse them, doesn’t make them less sincere.”
But it’s more than learning what to say. “You can have the worst line ever,” Mason explains, “but if you create a powerful impression with your body language, you can make any line work.” Throughout the day, he spends hours correcting the way the students walk, stand, speak, and breathe. “It’s not that hard to be the coolest guy in the room when you know this stuff,” says Mason. The tips are obvious—shoulders back, smile when entering a room, make eye contact—but it’s amazing how difficult it is for the students to break their simple habits of slouching and frowning.
Saturday: time to put the skills to the test. After a couple more hours of rehearsal and a brief round of chanting “Let’s go meet some women” along to the Rocky theme song, the class is sent out to Union Square, the San Francisco Centre mall, and the Marina. I hit Union Square with Dominic, a 33-year-old professional gambler from Cleveland. Before Dominic discovered PickUp 101 a few months ago, he rarely left the house. He’s a big guy—240 pounds—with acting skills that are worse than Keanu Reeves’s on a bad day. But he already looks less robotic than yesterday, and more important, he’s willing to try. Half of pickup is approaching people. Dominic sees two tall, sleekly dressed women buying coffee, and he pounces, using the three-step opening combo he’s been practicing all morning.
“Excuse me,” he asks, “do you have the time?”
“Uh, sure,” one responds disinterestedly. “It’s 1:30.”
“Thanks,” Dominic says. “I should hire you as my personal assistant. You could, like, help me plan my day. Wait a minute, can you type?”
The woman says nothing. Her friend cuts in. “I think you can do that yourself.” And they walk away.
Ouch. The lines came off too stiff, which, according to Mason, equals creepy. I run up for moral support, expecting Dominic to be sulking. But he’s smiling. “At least I tried,” he says. “This is actually kind of fun.” And therein lies one of the biggest secrets of pickup: realizing that rejection isn’t that bad.
Wandering Union Square, I see more of Mason’s students scouting for live test material. I follow Gordon, a 39-year-old programmer from the South Bay. He’s 5 feet 8 inches with a pudgy, round belly, but he’s wearing a pair of Stacy Adams alligator-skin shoes, which he says bring him luck. He’s approaching a woman in a puffy gold jacket, who is standing by the heart sculpture across from the Westin St. Francis. With her athletic body wrapped in tight designer jeans, she’s way out of his league. “Don’t even try,” I want to shout after Gordon as he strides ahead. But it’s too late.
“Hey, do you know where an ATM is?” he asks.
“I don’t know. I think over there,” the woman responds, pointing vaguely toward Market Street.
“You don’t know, do you? Damn, I was totally going to hire you as my tour guide,” he jokingly replies.
The woman laughs.
“So you’re not from around here are you?” he asks, touching her shoulder.
“No, I’m from Vienna, but I just moved here three months ago,” she says with a smile.
Gordon takes the bait. “You know what I love about this city….”
Oh my god, I think. It’s working. Short, pudgy Gordon is getting positive feedback from the sexiest woman in sight. He’s standing up straight and leaning back slightly so as not to convey neediness, and looking pretty slick in an innocent kind of way. After talking to her for a solid hour, he leaves with a phone number and a date for Monday night. We high-five, and I see how this can become an addiction. Pickup is the perfect male bonding exercise: half the rush is showing off.
After four hours out in the field, the PUAs retreat to the mansion. The place is abuzz with stories of phone number exchanges and comical rejections. “I just never thought any women would want to talk to a guy with my body type,” says Alex, a PickUp 101 convert who subsequently quit his high-paying tech job to work for Mason full time. Mike, a fit, attractive Marina guy in square, wire-rimmed glasses who had been fumbling all his lines during the morning practice sessions, seems especially happy. He approached a woman and, deciding to just toss his lines, told her how beautiful she was. She gave him her e-mail address. “She just opened up,” Mike says in disbelief. “It was amazing.”
Not everyone had success—i.e., digits—but everyone had a good time. Part of Mason’s strategy is to get his students to be more social in general, so the guys talked to all kinds of strangers, not just beautiful women. “It’s amazing how much we feel like we’re in these little boxes, separated from everyone,” says Daniel, one of Mason’s first students, “but we’re just not.”
The next day, Mason brings in women to offer feedback. One of them is Yuko Yamazaki, Mason’s girlfriend, whom he met at a 24 Hour Fitness seven months ago. A no-nonsense, 26-year-old software engineer who struts around in high-heeled boots and a miniskirt, she doesn’t seem the type to fall for canned lines. I can’t resist asking what she thought of Mason’s initial pickup. She says he asked how her iPod worked while she was lifting weights—not exactly what one expects from one of the best pickup artists in the country. But his body language must have been good. “After he got my phone number, I went and called my friends,” Yamazaki tells me, blushing. “I told them, ‘I just met the smoothest guy ever.’”
She’s a big fan of PickUp 101 and helps out at many of the events. “Some of my friends think it’s weird,” she says. “But when they meet Lance, they see that he’s helping men treat women better.”
The other female assistants, who found the company through a job posting on Craigslist, are fans as well. “Guys need it,” says Luanne Hernandez, a bubbly 22-year-old who has worked at two other PickUp 101 workshops. “Women get good advice from Cosmo and their friends, but guys don’t have anything.”
Hearing from these two makes the whole thing seem less scandalous, and the more I ask women what they think, the better I feel about it all. “I think it’s necessary and called for,” says Natalie Mock, a 28-year-old from Berkeley who says guys try to pick up on her all the time at her restaurant job. “Most guys just go off their instincts, which is generally a bad idea. If these classes are done in a way that’s thoughtful to the woman, then I support it.”
Even skeptics are getting converted. “Dolly,” author of the popular sex blog The Truth about Cocks and Dolls, was put off by PUAs at first. But after she met more, including two from San Francisco, she wrote a letter to the Village Voice defending them, in response to the paper’s negative article on the subject in March. “PUAs try to create a fun, positive, and exciting experience for the woman,” Dolly wrote. “The credo many follow is ‘Leave her better than you found her.’ What’s so bad about that? That they want to get laid, too? Guess what? Guys have always wanted sex and will continue to want sex. You can’t fault them for finally discovering methods that are successful.”
To further inspire us for day three, Mason shows a clip of a true natural: playboy Howard Hughes, as played by Leonardo DiCaprio in The Aviator. In the scene, he picks up a cigarette girl, using many of the techniques Mason teaches, creating a near-orgasmic sexual tension in under two minutes. “Hughes is better than me,” Mason admits. “Hollywood understands attraction. You guys can learn from this.”
Watching DiCaprio, I’m intrigued by the power of these techniques and eager to cash in on the action. I hit the women’s shoe section at Macy’s. After making several methodical laps, I force myself to approach a woman in light brown, knee-high leather boots. She’s the exact type I never approach cold: stylish, confident, gorgeous. I want to try the “movie-moment method” on her, a technique in which the suitor says something fearless like, “There’s just something about you. I had to meet you.” But I wimp out.
“Those shoes really bring out your skin color,” I say, smiling and standing tall. “You think they have them in baby blue for me?”
“Really?” she says, and I remember that I’m in San Francisco. What was I thinking?
“No, I just came over here to flirt with you,” I tell her, using a line I saw Jesse try.
“Oh, OK,” she says, laughing, but perhaps slightly intimidated.
At this point I’m supposed to transition into building rapport, but this woman’s beauty is making me forget the techniques. Luckily, she initiates more banter.
“Look at my crazy teal socks,” she says.
I remember to toss out a “warm read,” an intuitive comment based on observation. “Oh, I see. Those must be, like, your inner playfulness hiding behind your cool exterior.” Warm reads are what PUAs call chick crack, and indeed, she giggles.
“Yeah, I guess that’s true.”
She likes me. She really, really likes me. But just when it’s getting good, her family arrives. “Well, nice meeting you. I’m shopping with my family today. Have a good day.” We wave and smile. She’s gone.
My confidence boosted, I spend the day approaching women everywhere—Macy’s, H&M, Borders. I’m not going for phone numbers yet, just having basic conversations: baby steps. A tall, stunning brunette exiting Macy’s seems genuinely touched when I run across the street to tell her she’s beautiful, but she says she has a serious boyfriend. A pale, leggy woman wandering Union Square entertains an awkward 10-minute conversation, but won’t offer me any IOIs—indicators of interest—so I abandon ship. But no matter. I’m having an epiphany: I can talk to anyone.
But then, eerily, I run into two guys from Real Social Dynamics, another local pickup group that hosts trainings every weekend. I watch as the short, unshaven guy with an annoying accent and his friend sporting black nail polish and lots of jewelry—classic peacocking—approach two Scandinavian-looking girls who have already been hit on by PickUp 101 guys. I’m with Daniel, one of Mason’s assistants, and he explains how their techniques differ, as if they’re from a rival kung fu school. “We don’t try to entertain the girl as much. They’re acting like it’s a club in the middle of Union Square.”
It turns out that Mystery Method, one of the most well-known PUA groups, is also running a workshop here this weekend. How many Howard Hughes aspirants can Union Square hold at once?
A few minutes later, the Scandinavian girls see me scribbling in a notebook and run up to find out what the hell is going on. “Excuse me,” one says, tapping my shoulder. “Guys keep approaching us saying weird things, and I just saw one of them hiding a video camera.” It was inevitable: they’ve spotted Derek, the PickUp 101 intern, trying to film a live pickup to be analyzed later for training purposes. I’m not sure if I should blow the guys’ cover, but I had run Mason’s techniques on the girls myself earlier that day, and my guilt gets the better of me. I admit what’s going on, expecting to get slapped, but instead they’re into it. “That’s so cool,” they say. “Teach us how to pick up on guys.” Apparently, they don’t read Cosmo in Sweden.
I chastise myself briefly for getting involved in this cult, but only until I spot a petite blonde in a head scarf. She has huge blue eyes and she’s handing out fliers on the corner of Stockton and Post; it’s a perfect opportunity to talk. I beeline toward her, tossing aside my qualms, but run head-on into another moral quandary. She’s a Hare Krishna, and her fliers explain the group’s tenets; soon I’m debating human potential and the cosmos with her. She tries to make me a “servant of Krishna,” but her body language is terrible. Besides, getting converted to one cult is enough for a weekend.
I remember a cute girl I saw yesterday working at the Borders caf� and go find her. I had complimented her on her tattoo, but then chickened out and left without making conversation. She’s not stereotypically beautiful, but there is something irresistible about her short, curly hair, square glasses, and nose piercing.
This has to be executed perfectly, I tell myself as I walk toward the caf� like a cowboy strolling into the O.K. Corral, not showing an ounce of indecision.
“I saw you yesterday,” I say in an unusually low voice. “And I had to come back and talk to you.”
She smiles, and before she even says a word, I know that I’ve succeeded. Soon, we’re exchanging contact info, and Jesse, who just happens to be in Borders coaching another student, watches the whole thing.
“That was awesome,” he says afterward with a brotherly high five.
Every successful pickup builds on itself. I feel so on my game that when I walk downstairs to the magazine section and see the woman I met earlier at Macy’s, my lines come naturally.
“Hey, are you stalking me?” I joke.
“I think you’re stalking me,” she says, jabbing me.
And we chat. When she asks me what I do, I have a rehearsed answer from one of Mason’s identity exercises. The key is to set yourself apart. “I’m really lucky right now because I get to surf all the time,” I say. “Ever since I was a little kid, I’ve dreamed of being a surfer.”
By saying this, instead of just telling her I’m a freelance writer who has written about surfing, I’m surprising her—and showing my sensitive side, appearing vulnerable. Correspondingly, she opens up and tells me about her childhood in the Bay Area, Guam, and Hawaii. The surfing line was a good call. When the conversation ends, she offers me her e-mail address. “So if you’re ever in San Antonio, let me know,” she says, grinning.
“OK. Great!” I say, dazed. “Wait—San Antonio?” As a typical Bay Area commitmentphobe, my first reaction is relief: the pressure is off. But then I find myself religiously checking my e-mail, hoping for a reply from her—or the Borders barista. No dice.
Turns out flirty banter is one thing, but closing the deal is another. Mason reminds us that even with a killer pickup, you need the personality to back it up. But I refuse to believe I don’t have what it takes. Still, instead of replies from my crushes, my in-box is filled with e-mails from Mason, reminding me that another $1,700 workshop could get me closer to the perfect pickup. Hmmm. For now, I think I’ll stick to my instincts—Mason’s mansion is always there if I need it.
Diplomi_foEi on 
Elektrokarniz_mbKa on 
Diplomi_kmEl on 
Diplomi_qfer on 
Diplomi_rtEl on 
In other news, Annoying KEYBOARD JOCKEY sues everyone for millions (Hey it beats trying to sell “product”). KJ Could not be reached for comment at local whorehouse. Rich guy gets laid! film at 11. Heh.
Whoops! Should have read: Rich guy FINALLY gets laid: film at 11.
Funny how in chess, where one’s level of “game” is VERIFIABLE thanks to things like OFFICIAL RATINGS (my peak was higher than 90 percent of tournament players in the US, and that after two years of tournament play), you can’t rely on social proof, testimonials, women they are giving money to, or anything else to build one’s reputation.
That rating was from WHEN?…20 years ago?….whats your rating NOW?
Why are you constantly being told in chess groups that you aren’t a skilled player?….why do they say that about you, if its not true….thought you chess geeks were “tight”.
And really, it has been stated over and over here that we don’t give a shit about some board game you were once good at. This is seduction not chess, blackjack, or checkers. Your analogies of chess to seduction, is apples to oranges.
One has to actually have SKILL. You can’t win a chess game with a cheesy line or pattern, either.
Well I guess one can play chess and never have to speak to the person you are playing with.
You can’t seduce a woman with a chessy chess move…snicker.
Ray Gordon wrote:
>>>Actually, when someone libels me that badly (my last USCF rating was 1900, as anyone who did even basic research could attest),
I checked under “Ray Gordon”, but you are under “Gordon R Parker” i.e. I needed to know your real name before I could look up your rating.
>>>I usually just begin the paperwork to start suing them rather than appear beta by asking them to kindly stop lying about me.
I’m sure you were pretty fucking desperate to resort to such a libelous statement about me.
Ray, your 1900 rating confirms everything in my post. Everything I wrote is TRUE. Look up libel in the dictionary. You are an “A” player. BFD.
KJ Could not be reached for comment at local whorehouse.
Laughing my ass off…thanks..:)…you made my day.
“KJ Could not be reached for comment at local whorehouse.”
Gurus get their whores from VIP lounges (funded by men since the women don’t even pay to get in), and they pay for it with the “loser AFCs who pay their rent” (as one guru called them).
Ray… I appreciate you may have done work for the seduction community in the past. And anyone who expresses themselves passionately is worth listening to… but think about it.
The only way you become good at chess or seduction is to be positive and objective.
I know how good I am at chess- the rating in England I have now is equivalent to around 1900 ELO- my strength and potential is a bit higher than that rating. I have written a chess novel as well as an E-book on Online Seduction- http://www.artsvenusiens.com/ptw and artsvenusiens.com/os respectively.
In terms of chess skill and seduction knowledge, I’m pretty good.
But if I’m going to get better, there’s no way I’ll become so by solely mentioning past successes, or claiming that I am THE BEST. That’d just be having a false ego.
I’m fortunate enough to have met some excellent seducers, such as Stevie PUA, and I also have seen in the flesh some Chess GMs. I know how good they are and I know how good I am. The only way I’ll get close to that level is by watching them, being objective, and hoping to acquire enough skill to reach their level.
There is no way I can say, with a 1900 ELO rating, that I am an AMAZING chess player. A 1900 ELO is roughly the same as a 2000 USCF rating, which you were at your peak.
I haven’t fully researched your reputation as a seduction writer… but since being part of ‘the community’ since 2000 I haven’t really read any of your writing ‘first hand’. And I’ve heard you’re banned from ASF and MASF… even I haven’t managed that yet… and I’m pretty controversial
. If you want to be recognised as a top seduction writer to the current crowd of newcomers we have here now, you’ll have to prove it to them by releasing a product now- and it’ll have to sell.
Hell… even MY books are selling. And I’m thankful to everyone who buys. But I know I’ll have to keep on producing to keep on recieving recognition.
Gurus get their whores from VIP lounges (funded by men since the women don’t even pay to get in), and they pay for it with the “loser AFCs who pay their rent” (as one guru called them
Since you HATE the methods that 99.999908 of us are happy with, and you hate the men that teach it….then why do you come here and hang out with the people you hate?
Why don’t you go hang out with the “foxhunters”?
If you think you are going to “convert” any of these guys you are BADLY mistakened.
You don’t make any sense you hang out in places where you are not welcomed. No One likes you or subscribes to your methods, so why don’t you go else where?
Ray, would you please reply to my post. It addresses some of the stuff you keep repeating.
Mark Huddersfield,
I want to read your chess novel and I registered to win it on the
Yorkshire Chess Association web page. Let me know if I win. I’ll review it if it’s good.
(Sorry for this non-seduction related post)
Hi Truffant… good luck!
If you don’t win, it’s now only £8.99 from my site- that’s like… 13 dollars or something!
Incidently… I feel that now Thundy has forced us to register I’ll just mention that site again http://www.artsvenusiens.com/ptw
Seems everyones keen to release how much $$$ they are making online, I’ll throw my hat into the ring – $0.00!
And that’s in 8 days. Check out my blog with updates on how you too can make $0.00 off the internet (well one method not to use anyway)
http://smartmoneyguide.blogspot.com
Seems everyones keen to release how much $$$ they are making online, I’ll throw my hat into the ring – $0.00!
Don’t feel bad thats what I’m making. Being a shill doesn’t pay anything. Now if Ray would tell me where I can go to get paid for all this shilling maybe I could make a buck.
He screams about paid shills attacking him and all, just wish I could get paid for it….maybe theres a class I need to take..:)
I’m wondering Ray….would you go to cliffs convention if you got an invite?
I mean it looks like bishop is going to be there…so if he goes I think you have the right as well, being he is a KJ as well.
Hey, you’ll get that much wanted attention and exposure you say you so richly deserve…;)
“Ray… I appreciate you may have done work for the seduction community in the past.”
Lovely weasel compliment: “May have.”
“And anyone who expresses themselves passionately is worth listening to… but think about it. The only way you become good at chess or seduction is to be positive and objective.”
The DSM-IV says that “magical thinking” (expecting one’s attitude to change external reality) is a sign of schizophrenia, unless it’s a young child who doesn’t know better, such as one who blames their parents’ divorce on themselves. People like control over their lives, and it feels good to believe that your belief system affects the world, but there’s nothing to support that.
What succeeds online? Affiliate programs, hard-selling, high prices to a wealthy audience that is easiest to teach, and personal instruction, which can’t be pirated.
What you call a “community” is something I call a “mutual commercial admiration society” that mutually benefits from cross-promotion the way radio stations and musicians benefit. Get a music star on the radio and everything is “great”: the DJ is great, the station is great, the artist is great, the music is great, and this generates sales for the artist and money for the station (who sells commercials while the artist is on).
People don’t realize how short of a time a few years is. For the first two to three years, I was making more money than many of the “gurus” who get rich now. Someone said my strategy of waiting for the audience to build was misguided, or that I wouldn’t pass over a few “quick millions” for it. First off, the “millions” are only being made by a few, and of the ones mentioned here, they all have something in common, namely they are advertised in places where their competition cannot. At worst, that’s anticompetitive behavior, and at best, it makes the webmasters who promote them nothing more than paid endorsers.
You don’t see newspapers saying they’ll only take ads from Macy’s and not Gimbel’s, etc.
“I know how good I am at chess- the rating in England I have now is equivalent to around 1900 ELO- my strength and potential is a bit higher than that rating. I have written a chess novel as well as an E-book on Online Seduction- and respectively.”
Cool.
“In terms of chess skill and seduction knowledge, I’m pretty good.But if I’m going to get better, there’s no way I’ll become so by solely mentioning past successes, or claiming that I am THE BEST. That’d just be having a false ego.”
I’m not resting on anything. Many flamers like to lie about me, and one of the lies for a long time was that I never even played tournament chess! I got my 2000 peak rating after a few short years then quit chess when I was 24 (due to lack of women in the game). I only train now because the publishing is a great opportunity, and at my age, it’s now or never for becoming a GM or more. I actually started training again in 2004 and didn’t even tell anyone for well over a year after that.
I have new seduction knowledge, but there’s no vehicle for rewarding it in this environment given the flames, limitations on market access, and my refusal to hard-sell at high prices. I built my publishing company as if it were an offline one using a new technology, i.e., with books similarly priced and aimed at a general audience. The problem here is that my last wave of books gave away a lot of theory that I saw turn up in competing products (the pivot is the best example of this).
I had been milking the pivot forever before anyone even knew what one was. I didn’t have to publish it, but once I started charging money, I felt that holding it back wouldn’t have been proper.
I now have a number of new methods that are just as powerful, but have to either let the market grow more or aim at the rich guys with the workshop/bootcamp route. Given that guys today are building these businesses in a year or two, it’s not like I or you or anyone else could do the same. The bigger the industry gets, the bigger the pie for everyone. Still, I already proved myself in a way that should preclude the shit I’m seeing here and elsewhere.
Finally, it’s very legitimate to point out the role of money and status in any guru’s “game.” The more this industry progresses, the more the gurus sound like AFC men. Framing the idea of using women as “treating them better” is ludicrous: what women want in love is NOT what a true PUA wants. It is not a cooperative effort, unless you have a PUA “cooperating” with a woman’s AFC fantasy, or a woman cooperating with a PUA’s goals (ONS, MLTR, etc.). A recent Nobel Prize winner in economics talked about the “used car transaction” and how both sides have different levels of information, so you can’t trust normal principles applied to that transaction.
If women were as simple and straightforward as today’s “gurus” are making them out to be, then there never would have been a need for this industry to begin with. The only time someone is difficult to figure out is when they are dishonest or have a hidden agenda. That’s not “mysterious” that’s just LYING. The AFC can’t “figure out” women because he is basing his analysis on the notion that women are honest; once he abandons that, the rest of the puzzle falls into place pretty quickly.
Today’s gurus have an even bigger problem in that if they preach “having a life” or “having your shit together” and equate money with part of that, then they are turning into AFCs, whereas if they go the other route and say use this routine or use this line, then what happens when the next guy learns the same material or the woman knows how to spot it?
“I’m fortunate enough to have met some excellent seducers, such as Stevie PUA, and I also have seen in the flesh some Chess GMs.”
I’ve beaten chess GMs and plan on beating many more in the future.
“I know how good they are and I know how good I am. The only way I’ll get close to that level is by watching them, being objective, and hoping to acquire enough skill to reach their level.”
Some of the guys you are watching are using stuff I wrote about almost a decade ago. If you choose to call it “body odor” when I say it and “Chanel No. 5″ when they say it, that’s not my problem.
In the 1950s, Little Richard learned that Pat Boone was recording “White” versions of his songs for a white audience. What did Little Richard do? He started singing REAL fast in a way that he could carry off but which made Boone sound like a fool.
If I were to release my new theory, people would continue to trash me while promoting guys who took the theory and sold it themselves. The internet is set up that way, unfortunately, as a book gets released, then “discussed,” then dissected, and it becomes “common knowledge” while the originator gets lost in the shuffle. The only way to combat this is to not originate for a while.
“There is no way I can say, with a 1900 ELO rating, that I am an AMAZING chess player. A 1900 ELO is roughly the same as a 2000 USCF rating, which you were at your peak.”
I didn’t say I was an amazing player either, just good by objective standards. I did say that chess publishing has AMAZING profit potential, almost as much as seduction, and it’s a lot more respectable, that’s for sure, with a lot less downside. Plus it’s more provable.
“I haven’t fully researched your reputation as a seduction writer… but since being part of ‘the community’ since 2000 I haven’t really read any of your writing ‘first hand’. And I’ve heard you’re banned from ”
When all else fails, censorship is a last resort.
“… even I haven’t managed that yet… and I’m pretty controversial
. If you want to be recognised as a top seduction writer to the current crowd of newcomers we have here now, you’ll have to prove it to them by releasing a product now- and it’ll have to sell.”
Just like if the AFC buys one more dinner for the HB, he “might” get laid….the customer is always right as long as the customer isn’t being an asshole about being “always right.”
If AFC consumers are going to judge marketing over substance, then marketing, not product, is what’s going to sell. If that fucks up their love lives, they have no one but themselves to blame for it.
In my antitrust lawsuit (District of Delaware, #06-cv-229), I sued over the selective refusal of advertisers as one of the counts. Other advertisers who benefit from this exclusion are participating in the antitrust scheme as much as the one who organized it, too.
I don’t know where you advertise, but if you advertise anywhere that is anticompetitive you benefit every time someone other than you is “banned” from anything, at least indirectly, because that’s one less competitor you have to worry about.
When the “banned” competitor has the lowest price on the market, that doesn’t help the consumer very much at all, now does it? If the consumer truly wouldn’t have been interested, then the last thing anyone should do is break the rules when they are supposedly winning the game.
“Hell… even MY books are selling. And I’m thankful to everyone who buys. But I know I’ll have to keep on producing to keep on recieving recognition.”
Depends. In my situation, all that producing now would do is prop up my competitors for another few years, and only an idiot would do that. Right now, I’m looking at taking on 5-10 very wealthy men as students in a “lounge” format. I know how much it is worth to a rich guy not to have a disaster by choosing the wrong woman (even 100k is a bargain if he’s rich enough). That sales pitch that won him over when he was narcissistic (i.e., a customer with money to spend demanding he be marketed to in a “seductive” way) isn’t going to help him when that office slut he seduced winds up fucking him over, and his guru didn’t bother to explain that “hired guns” are inherently dishonest and not trustworthy (any woman who would steal a job from an older or fat woman with her looks is pure trash, even if she’s good in bed).
He may have felt great about the e-books and seminars and other products, but that had nothing to do with the reality that “checked” him down the road, and a simple one at that: women who play games are going to keep playing them no matter what. It’s not like they suddenly turn into nice women just because they happen to be treating you nice at the moment.
The guy with money who gets an 8 from a bar who is trash may think he’s improved his love life, but he’ll never know what he’s missing if I could have shown him how to get a 9.5 who is also more ethical. He won’t want to entertain that because doing so would mean admitting he was wrong and spent his money on an inferior product.
I’m much better off without the money of a narcissistic asshole who demands any marketing cater to his narcissism (such as a beginner who believes he can eavluate teachers of things he knows nothing about), than he is if he chooses a slut who destroys him instead of a hotter woman who really was a keeper.
I can afford to wait that guy out and instead write things like chess books rather than being a pathetic beta like you recommend and try to win over people whose only real goal is to try to get me to bow down. As a *true* alpha, I wouldn’t dream of that.
Finally, if you’re selling something, marketing it to blogs and message boards may be inexpensive, but it’s not the original purpose of either. That’s what advertising is for.
“I’m wondering Ray….would you go to cliffs convention if you got an invite?”
Too many threats of violence against me to consider public appearances at this time, unless it’s a major media outfit.
“I mean it looks like bishop is going to be there…so if he goes I think you have the right as well, being he is a KJ as well.”
Ross touted Bishop as a prime student for a long time. Maybe he changed his opinion of him, but the fact remains that he was very convinced in the past, when consumers were making decisions which were very important to them.
I wouldn’t call Bishop a KJ, as he obviously had an LTR, even if it ended badly.
Holy shit Ray. A 2,071 word post! I wonder how many people read it all the way through…
I like the one after better.
Threats of violence be damned! I think you should start packin some heat. A HK USP or similar. So when you’re at a public event in the future and a rebel PUA / mPUA / PUG / Style lunges at you from the bushes – BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! blow their ass away! Then jump in the batmobile for a quick getaway…
Then post it here.
http://smartmoneyguide.blogspot.com
Hey Ray… interesting reply
.
I didn’t mean to use any weasal phrases, but I do like debate.
It may well be worth a 100k to someone if you can sort out their love life- but you’ll have to market yourself as being the best person to do that. As well as being the best.
I don’t like conning people out of money like some people in this ‘community’ do. (I was being slightly ironic when I used that word Ray). I don’t want to become like RSD.
If you can manage to write good chess books and help people with seduction that’s cool. But seriously… being optimistic might not objectively change anything the world… but it definitely makes you and other feel better. It’s worth a try
.
BTW… those sites again
http://www.artsvenusiens.com/ptw
http://www.artsvenusiens.com/os
Too many threats of violence against me to consider public appearances at this time, unless it’s a major media outfit.
Somehow my above post got all screwed up….or was I being edited?….
Admin!…am I being edited?
“Hey Ray… interesting reply
.
I didn’t mean to use any weasal phrases, but I do like debate.”
You also like benefitting from a playing field which is not level (you advertise and promote in places I am not permitted to). Afraid of a level playing field?
“It may well be worth a 100k to someone if you can sort out their love life- but you’ll have to market yourself as being the best person to do that. As well as being the best.”
I was excluded from many advertising venues because my prices are lower and my work is as good or better than most of my competition.
For you to profit from that (I can prove it if you want to push me) and then try to be civil with me is a joke.
“I don’t like conning people out of money like some people in this ‘community’ do.”
But you have no problem promoting yourself on websites where others have promoted the site saying things about me that I doubt you’d tolerate if said about you.
A real man would renounce such an unfair advantage, but you don’t strike me as much of a real man.
“If you can manage to write good chess books and help people with seduction that’s cool. But seriously… being optimistic might not objectively change anything the world… but it definitely makes you and other feel better. It’s worth a try
.”
So you get to be optimistic while those who provide your marketing platform do the dirtywork for you?
Your actions say exactly what type of man you aren’t.
>>>I wouldn’t call Bishop a KJ, as he obviously had an LTR, even if it ended badly.>>>
“Too perfect, which is why alot of people think he made it all up, just wrote stories. If you knew everything about the debacle as I do, you would be supect as well.”
In other words, the man who claims to be a total outsider now claims to have inside knowledge.
“You also like benefitting from a playing field which is not level (you advertise and promote in places I am not permitted to). Afraid of a level playing field?”
I think people are afraid of you pissing everyone off by cussing and threatening legal action when they disagree with you. Debating is fine till you start to lose.
“I was excluded from many advertising venues because my prices are lower and my work is as good or better than most of my competition.”
You are excluded because of your behavour. Your method has never been proven to be workable. Since you won’t do it and there are no none students.
“I don’t like conning people out of money like some people in this ‘community’ do.”
Well I can almost agree with you here to a point. But idiots will buy stupid things, won’t they.
“A real man would renounce such an unfair advantage, but you don’t strike me as much of a real man.”
See, this guy was wanting to debate you and here you are making personal attacks…whose the man now?
“So you get to be optimistic while those who provide your marketing platform do the dirtywork for you?”
So marketers are dirty people huh.
“Your actions say exactly what type of man you aren’t.”
Personal attack again, thats the sign of a weak man you know.
Your actions on the other hand expose your lack of knowledge, inexperence, and mental instablity.
Ray, go hang out with your students in your own forum and leave the REAL PUA’s alone…:)
>”You also like benefitting from
>a playing field which is not
>level (you advertise and promote
>in places I am not permitted
>to). Afraid of a level playing
>field?”
“I think people are afraid of you pissing everyone off by cussing and threatening legal action when they disagree with you. Debating is fine till you start to lose.”
The stuff I’m suing over is not “disagreement.”
>I was excluded from many
>advertising venues because my
>prices are lower and my work is
>as good or better than most of
>my competition.”
“You are excluded because of your behavour. Your method has never been proven to be workable. Since you won’t do it and there are no none students.”
Wow, more libel. Par for the course in this industry, it seems. Advertiser preference is a big no-no when it’s done for an anticompetitive purpose.
Sponsors who benefit from antitrust violations can be sued as much as the website that engages in the practice.
There are a lot more than the 10-15 gurus who get 95 percent of the press out there, but those are the ones who are benefitting from the exclusion of the general market.
The “behavior” argument will be interesting, however, since it calls EVERYONE’S behavior into question, not just mine. We can see who overlooked what and if they applied their “behavior” policies equally.
The ultimate outcome will be for a jury to decide, but when I amend the lawsuit, a number of sponsors who have profited from this behavior will be named as well.
It was their choice to do what they did, so they shouldn’t be surprised if someone makes a federal case out of it.
If my stuff is so bad, there’s no need to censor it. If it’s a threat to rival businesses and market prices, however, that’s a much more common motive.
I’m also not the only one being excluded. Antitrust violations can have criminal as well as civil penalties, and in addition to the lawsuit I’ll also be filing complaints with various states and the DOJ.
>”I don’t like conning people out
>of money like some people in
>this ‘community’ do.”
“Well I can almost agree with you here to a point. But idiots will buy stupid things, won’t they.”
If one believes that, then they can’t say that sales are a measure of product quality.
>”A real man would renounce such
>an unfair advantage, but you ?>don’t strike me as much of a
>real man.”
“See, this guy was wanting to debate you and here you are making personal attacks…whose the man now?”
A man doesn’t let third parties do his dirtywork, nor does he continue to profit from an unfair playing field.
>So you get to be optimistic
>while those who provide your
>marketing platform do the
>dirtywork for you?”
“So marketers are dirty people huh.”
When they defame me the way many have, they are.
>”Your actions say exactly what
>type of man you aren’t.”
“Personal attack again, thats the sign of a weak man you know.”
Then all the men who do it as if they are being paid to attack me must be pretty weak.
“Your actions on the other hand expose your lack of knowledge, inexperence, and mental instablity.”
Wow another wannabe psychologist on the internet!
I don’t think all these business newbies have ever contemplated why competing businesses in most industries don’t get so chummy.
Antitrust laws are a bitch.
“Ray, go hang out with your students in your own forum and leave the REAL PUA’s alone…:)”
Real men don’t have to play women or try to use hypnosis to RAPE them.
Real men don’t threaten reverends with knives, the way Mystery did, and they don’t threaten to throw their best friends through plate glass, which Mystery did (source: Neil Strauss, “The Game”).
This “community” has become nothing more than a CARTEL, and men are paying thousands of dollars for stuff that should cost far, far less. Those who join the CARTEL reap incredible rewards, at the expense of those who are excluded.
It’s one thing when it’s done with small amounts of money, but the prices here are such that it’s more than enough for the government to start taking an interest in. “Vulnerable consumers spending thousands of dollars” has been a theme in many previous actions by the DOJ and FTC. Private companies also have standing to pursue their own lawsuits, under the “private attorney general” doctrine, and that’s what I’m doing.
The lawsuit in question for those who want source material for my statements is in the district of delaware, #06-cv-229. An amended complaint will be filed shortly, and a number of sponsors of this CARTEL will be added as defendants.
Let’s see how well everyone’s claims hold up under discovery. I have nothing to hide. Do they?
Time will tell.
Ray, Ray, Ray,
I’ve only been reading your posts for about a week and it’s clear to me now that you are delusional. I’m guessing that you are in you 40’s but you have the emotional maturity of a thirteen-year-old boy. Your concept of reality is shaky. I’m glad you have The DSM-IV at your bedside. Maybe it can be of some help to you.
“at my age, it’s now or never for becoming a GM or more.”
Ray, you will never be a Chess Grandmaster. You have a 1900 rating. You will never even become a master. Mark my words. At your age it’s almost impossible. It would take a tremendous about of time and dedication. You spend too much time living your life vicariously through the internet.
“I’ve beaten chess GMs and plan on beating many more in the future.”
I doubt it. Tell us who they are and publish the moves. There is NO WAY that you have beaten Grandmasters in a tournament game. Maybe you beat “Yuri” in an odds game over the internet after he drank two bottles of vodka? LOL
“I did say that chess publishing has AMAZING profit potential, almost as much as seduction”
As I said before, the chess publishing market is VERY SMALL and you are a *&$%@ “A” player, AKA a patzer. No chess player who wants to improve his game would buy a book written by an “A” player.
“Right now, I’m looking at taking on 5-10 very wealthy men as students in a “lounge” format.”
Ray, any thirteen-year-old boy can deduce from you writings that you have no skill with women. If fact, I’m quite certain that you are a virgin, unless you went to a prostitute. You probably still live with you mother.
“I was excluded from many advertising venues because my prices are lower and my work is as good or better than most of my competition.
LOL, you think THAT’S the reason? It is because you are a GRANDMASTER at alienating yourself from people. Which is also why everyone knows that you have no skill with women. You are a pariah and social idiot.
“For you to profit from that (I can prove it if you want to push me) and then try to be civil with me is a joke”
LOL (again), why should other businessmen be punished for you business stupidity?
“I’m wondering Ray…. would you go to cliffs convention if you got an invite?”
Ray’s Response – “Too many threats of violence against me to consider public appearances at this time, unless it’s a major media outfit.”
Ray, everyone knows that you will NEVER show yourself in public (the non-internet world). You are a delusional KJ. Period.
“The stuff I’m suing over is not “disagreement.”
But you still piss people off ANYWHERE you post.
“”Wow, more libel. Par for the course in this industry, it seems. Advertiser preference is a big no-no when it’s done for an anticompetitive purpos”
Will you prove it?….didn’t think so.
“The “behavior” argument will be interesting, however, since it calls EVERYONE’S behavior into question, not just mine. We can see who overlooked what and if they applied their “behavior” policies equally.”
You are the only that has threatened children, made discusting remarks on 911, been in love with an underage girl…so your behavior stands out…..
“The ultimate outcome will be for a jury to decide, but when I amend the lawsuit, a number of sponsors who have profited from this behavior will be named as well.”
A jury?…you can’t even get a suit past a judge…please….lol
“If my stuff is so bad, there’s no need to censor it. If it’s a threat to rival businesses and market prices, however, that’s a much more common motive.”
Your stuff isn’t censored…silly rabbit, hell post it here, its just that no one wants it Ray…censored…thats funny.
“A man doesn’t let third parties do his dirtywork, nor does he continue to profit from an unfair playing field.”
I guess you are the only one qualified to define a man …
“When they defame me the way many have, they are.”
I know Ray, you have it worse than the jews during ww2
“Then all the men who do it as if they are being paid to attack me must be pretty weak.”
No Ray, they just don’t like you.
“Wow another wannabe psychologist on the internet!”
I know more about human behavior than you would if you lived to a 1000.
“Antitrust laws are a bitch.”
So are you.
“Ray, go hang out with your students in your own forum and leave the REAL PUA’s alone…:)”
“Real men don’t have to play women or try to use hypnosis to RAPE them.”
Laughing my ass off…rape…yeah yeah…they hate you in hypnosis group too.
“Real men don’t threaten reverends with knives, the way Mystery did, and they don’t threaten to throw their best friends through plate glass, which Mystery did (source: Neil Strauss, “The Game”).”
Nor do they threaten children like you have done…pot calling the kettle here.
“This “community” has become nothing more than a CARTEL, and men are paying thousands of dollars for stuff that should cost far, far less. Those who join the CARTEL reap incredible rewards, at the expense of those who are excluded.”
Maybe if you had something…something to offer, you might make a buck.!!!
“The lawsuit in question for those who want source material for my statements is in the district of delaware, #06-cv-229. An amended complaint will be filed shortly, and a number of sponsors of this CARTEL will be added as defendants.”
We don’t care about your little CARTEL suite. Neither does a judge. Didn’t they ORDER you to take a psy eval, which you refused and paid the fine…didn’t they call you a FAILURE….I’ve heard even the clerks at the court laugh and make jokes about you…damn ray…wake up..get help!
“Let’s see how well everyone’s claims hold up under discovery. I have nothing to hide. Do they?”
DIMISSED….like all your other little tantrum suits.
“I’ve beaten chess GMs and plan on beating many more in the future.”
He won’t do it, he will not name anyone nor post the moves….AND WE ALL KNOW WHY…never happened!!
You are a pariah and social idiot.
You are a delusional KJ. Period.
Ray, any thirteen-year-old boy can deduce from you writings that you have no skill with women. If fact, I’m quite certain that you are a virgin, unless you went to a prostitute. You probably still live with you mother.
Man, Ray… hes got your number.
Looks like you lost another round!
>”The stuff I’m suing over is
>not “disagreement.”
“But you still piss people off ANYWHERE you post.”
Cartels often get pissed off at threats to their attempts to monopolize an industry.
>”Wow, more libel. Par for the
>course in this industry, it
>seems. Advertiser preference is
>a big no-no when it’s done for
>an anticompetitive purpos”
“Will you prove it?….didn’t think so.”
That’s what courts are for. No anonymous cockroaches testifying there. People have to show who they are so they can be cross-examined, something sorely lacking here.
>”The “behavior” argument will be
>interesting, however, since it
>calls EVERYONE’S behavior into
>question, not just mine. We can
>see who overlooked what and if
>they applied their “behavior”
>policies equally.”
“You are the only that has threatened children, made discusting remarks on 911, been in love with an underage girl…so your behavior stands out…..”
Obviously if I had REALLY threatened any kids I’d have been busted for it since I’m easily traced, but don’t let the details stop your little rant. Kids were lying about me a lot to cover up child abuse.
Now Mystery, on the other hand, threatened a REVEREND with a KNIFE. I have several other examples that won’t be shown here.
>”The ultimate outcome will be
>for a jury to decide, but when I
>amend the lawsuit, a number of
>sponsors who have profited from
>this behavior will be named as
>well.”
“A jury?…you can’t even get a suit past a judge…please….lol”
The case in PA was dismissed for lack of jurisdiction, the equivalent of a rainout.
Delaware courts are much more familiar with business disputes, given how many companies are incorporated there.
For all their work, the defendants got the case moved 26 miles, when they are hundreds or thousands of miles away from there or from PA.
>”If my stuff is so bad, there’s
>no need to censor it. If it’s a
>threat to rival businesses and
>market prices, however, that’s a
>much more common motive.”
“Your stuff isn’t censored…silly rabbit, hell post it here, its just that no one wants it ”
That’s a lie that my sales records can easily refute.
And yes, there are advertising channels that are only open to a very few businesses, all of whom profit tremendously from that setup.
Antitrust laws were passed to stop this exact type of behavior, and they even carry criminal penalties in many cases.
“Ray…censored…thats funny.”
That’s what it is: exclusion and censorship, and anticompetitive advertising policies designed to keep prices artificially high.
>”A man doesn’t let third parties
>do his dirtywork, nor does he
>continue to profit from an
>unfair playing field.”
“I guess you are the only one qualified to define a man …”
The definition above is accurate.
>”When they defame me the way
>many have, they are.”
“I know Ray, you have it worse than the jews during ww2″
By that standard, no one should file suit over anything.
Did you hear Ann Coulter on 9/11? She’s a little sick of people hiding behind it too.
>”Then all the men who do it as
>if they are being paid to attack
>me must be pretty weak.”
“No Ray, they just don’t like you.”
That’s their problem and it’s no excuse for breaking the laws.
You’re a fucking coward hiding behind a monitor.
>”Wow another wannabe
>psychologist on the internet!”
“I know more about human behavior than you would if you lived to a 1000.”
Those anonymous credentials are great!
>”Antitrust laws are a bitch.”
“So are you.”
Don’t like me? Deal with it.
>”Ray, go hang out with your
>students in your own forum and
>leave the REAL PUA’s alone…:)”
>”Real men don’t have to play
>women or try to use hypnosis to
>RAPE them.”
“Laughing my ass off…rape…yeah yeah…they hate you in hypnosis group too.”
Rapists generally don’t like me, it’s true. Then again, I’m man enough not to hide online, more than will ever be the case for you.
>”Real men don’t threaten
>reverends with knives, the way
>Mystery did, and they don’t
>threaten to throw their best
>friends through plate glass,
>which Mystery did (source: Neil
>Strauss, “The Game”).”
“Nor do they threaten children like you have done…pot calling the kettle here.”
Difference is, you’re lying, and Style wasn’t. Mystery is a disgusting, pathetic little toddler.
>”This “community” has become
>nothing more than a CARTEL, and
>men are paying thousands of
>dollars for stuff that should
>cost far, far less. Those who
>join the CARTEL reap incredible
>rewards, at the expense of those
>who are excluded.”
“Maybe if you had something…something to offer, you might make a buck.!!!”
I already make bucks, and don’t need to be in a CARTEL to do it.
>”The lawsuit in question for
>those who want source material
>for my statements is in the
>district of delaware, #06-cv-
>229. An amended complaint will
>be filed shortly, and a number
>of sponsors of this CARTEL will
>be added as defendants.”
“We don’t care about your little CARTEL suite.”
He has MPD, it seems, since he speaks of himself as a “we.”
>>>Neither does a judge. Didn’t they ORDER you to take a psy eval, which you refused and paid the fine…didn’t they call you a FAILURE….I’ve heard even the clerks at the court laugh and make jokes about you…damn ray…wake up..get help!>>
The court has been informed of the allegations of violations of my privacy by its clerks, who would face severe job discipline if this is true. Since there are only two people who generally deal with the public at that desk, you just made some pretty serious allegations against an identifiable group.
For anyone with information on clerk misconduct in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania, call (215) 597-7704 and ask to speak to Michael Kunz’s office. They want to know where these remarks against their integrity are coming from.
>”Let’s see how well everyone’s
>claims hold up under discovery.
>I have nothing to hide. Do they?”
“DIMISSED….like all your other little tantrum suits.”
Said the hiding, anonymous cockroach who has accused two specific civil servants of misconduct.
“But you still piss people off ANYWHERE you post.”
“Cartels often get pissed off at threats to their attempts to monopolize an industry.”
So you are saying that the hypnosis, chess, romance, lawyer, and the other groups you post to are ALL running CARTELS against you? Man you are DELUSIONAL.
A regular whoowhoo.
“Will you prove it?….didn’t think so.”
“That’s what courts are for. No anonymous cockroaches testifying there. People have to show who they are so they can be cross-examined, something sorely lacking here.”
So you need the courts to prove you are a PUA and that you have students…lol…very weird. Just can’t bring them here to vouch for you huh….unless there aren’t any.
“Obviously if I had REALLY threatened any kids I’d have been busted for it since I’m easily traced, but don’t let the details stop your little rant. Kids were lying about me a lot to cover up child abuse.”
No, I have the posts, they are on google groups, were you are threatening a womans children…want me to go get it and post it here?….its no bother, really.
“A jury?…you can’t even get a suit past a judge…please….lol”
“The case in PA was dismissed for lack of jurisdiction, the equivalent of a rainout.”
What about ALL the others????????
“Delaware courts are much more familiar with business disputes, given how many companies are incorporated there.”
Yeah I guessed you have pissed off too many judges in your state, so you have to go to another….thats really sad Ray.
“Your stuff isn’t censored…silly rabbit, hell post it here, its just that no one wants it ”
“That’s a lie that my sales records can easily refute.”
Prove it, and we know your work isn’t censured…post it here and lets have a discussion on your method….bet he WILL NOT DO IT.
“Ray…censored…thats funny.”
“That’s what it is: exclusion and censorship, and anticompetitive advertising policies designed to keep prices artificially high.”
Isn’t it weird that the only guy that has ever been banned from ALL forums is Ray…no one else…gives one pause doesn’t it.
“Did you hear Ann Coulter on 9/11? She’s a little sick of people hiding behind it too.”
Oh are you trying to say that the jews were not killed?….careful buddy…be VERY careful. Ann is just trying to sale a book, everyone has come to expect that from her, its her trademark.
“You’re a fucking coward hiding behind a monitor.”
Sounds like you are talking to yourself…are you asking me out Ray?
“I know more about human behavior than you would if you lived to a 1000.”
“Those anonymous credentials are great!”
Laughing so are yours…expert this and that…you couldn’t tie your shoe laces without your moms help.
>”Antitrust laws are a bitch.”
“So are you.”
“Don’t like me? Deal with it.”
LOL…I do, I loves you RAY BABy…its so much fun arguing with an idiot..:)
“Laughing my ass off…rape…yeah yeah…they hate you in hypnosis group too.”
“Rapists generally don’t like me, it’s true. Then again, I’m man enough not to hide online, more than will ever be the case for you.”
lol..NO ONE likes you, I bet your mother doesn’t either. You never go outside, never leave that room…except when you have enough pennies to file another KOOK suit.
“Nor do they threaten children like you have done…pot calling the kettle here.”
“Difference is, you’re lying, and Style wasn’t. Mystery is a disgusting, pathetic little toddler.”
Mystery is more of a man , then you could ever hope to be…pussy.
“Maybe if you had something…something to offer, you might make a buck.!!!”
“I already make bucks, and don’t need to be in a CARTEL to do it.”
Yeah that why you are forty lving with mom….all that money..lol.
The court has been informed of the allegations of violations of my privacy by its clerks, who would face severe job discipline if this is true. Since there are only two people who generally deal with the public at that desk, you just made some pretty serious allegations against an identifiable group.
Being laughed at really gets to you, doesn’t it Raybe.
For anyone with information on clerk misconduct in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania, call (215) 597-7704 and ask to speak to Michael Kunz’s office. They want to know where these remarks against their integrity are coming from.
Laughing my ass off, I bet his face is 3 shades of red.
“DIMISSED….like all your other little tantrum suits.”
“Said the hiding, anonymous cockroach who has accused two specific civil servants of misconduct.”
Said the boy who is laughed at by all he meets………
>The court has been informed of
>the allegations of violations of
>my privacy by its clerks, who
>would face severe job discipline
>if this is true. Since there are
>only two people who generally
>deal with the public at that
>desk, you just made some pretty
>serious allegations against an
>identifiable group.”
“Being laughed at really gets to you, doesn’t it Raybe.”
If civil servants are violating my rights, it doesn’t “get to me” but it has to be dealt with.
If they aren’t, then these hard-working individuals are being defamed by people who are using them as pawns in a seduction flame war.
That is a very serious allegation that was just made against a few very specific people.
The comments section has really gone to shit now.
Stupid 2000 word posts about chess (which i haven’t bothered to read anyway).
This is for old times sake:
Fuck you thunderjew!
LTR Stuff
Again, you’re assuming he didn’t continue learning and adapting, just because I said he started figuring things out in college. Pickup101 is a pretty recent thing.
Only a couple years old, I think. He’s been living in the mansion since before that. He’s been really good since before THAT.
ONCE he got to the point where he’s seen as a “guru” and his company became his life, it’s only natural to mention it with women. He can do the pickup without it.
————————————————————-
“He claims to be in an LTR, which is more or less what an AFC does go for the LTR .”
No, AFC thing to do is to stay in a relationship you’re not completely happy with because you have a scarcity mentality. Having stable MLTR with hot women is not AFC. It’s a skill.
————————————————————
Ray: talks about Status factor and his g/f stuff
Reply: Once again, he doesn’t need “pickup guru” factor to pickup women. He was doing great BEFORE he became one.
Now that he is one, he’s not going to give up the lifestyle he was going for since before “The Game”, especially when customers he attracts want that style or something similar.
I’m not sure what he thinks about her on an intimate level, but I can tell he doesn’t think she’s above the rules or has a different psychology than girls. This isn’t like Mystery’s “The One”.
————————————————————
“It jumps the shark. He’s no longer a regular guy but has status, a following, and likely more money why quit the other job? , or a better lifestyle if not more money. Lifestyle seduction, however, is AFC seduction, not pickup.”
So, he’s not a regular guy anymore. He had the skillset before Pickup101, a relatively new company, and before guru status, and can still demonstrate the skillset without mentioning this “guru status”.
I’ve seen him demo in field. I’ve bumped into him in SF on weekends. He can do this.
He definitely quit his old job. It’d be impossible to manage both. I think you have the wrong image of what his is like. The impression I got from the workshops is that the instructors bust their assess for the company. They’re not rolling in dough.
———————————————————–
“It’s also not abuout using money to get an LTR like an AFC would, either.”
It can be about an M/LTR. Everyone has different goals. AFC is not a medical or psychlogical term based experiments. It’s something the community came up with.
If somehow some of his behavior falls under the AFC definition which I don’t think it does , then I think the definition needs to be revised. There’s nothing wrong with eventually wanting to settle down with a girl after having sex with and dating many many women .
I don’t know if that’s his plan, but I know he’s plan but don’t fault someone for if it is. And MLTR isn’t AFC.
———————————————————–
“Cool when getting paid and getting one’s way proves nothing.”
-I’m not really sure what you mean, there.
———————————————————–
“Their customers are providing money and status, which attracts women. In fact, since women are at the seminars, the customers are giving their money indirectly to these WOMEN. That’s what AFC chumps do.
-Uhhhh….I think there’s deeper issues going on with you. I’m not living my life to hate women or always thinking about how not to give in to them or whatever mentality that quote reflects. I enjoy women, on many levels.
———————————————————–
Musings on his g/f cheating with Mystery and what community theory says about it
-That’s assuming she’s not allowed to date other guys and maybe Mystery could. I don’t know. Who cares. And it’s not inconceivable that some community theory is wrong. Think of how much scrutiny, controlled experiments, peer reviewing by PhDs mainstream psychological theory goes through and sometimes it’s still wrong or we find a deeper truth.
———————————————————-
About Yuko not divulging all in the magazine article
Who pays for this? The students. Literally.”
So, what? It’s a business. Refer to previous replies on this. And Yuko is smart not to get into more details. The more you tell the media the more they can spin it their way.
**********You have some weird thoughts on this and I know a number of them to be completely wrong, so that makes me question other statements you make that I don’t know as much about. **********
————————————————————
“Lance gets his money from men he teaches how to get women.
Women like guys with money.”
Okay, so this is basically what you’re saying over and over.
The simple replies are:
-DUH, no one cares.
and
-Yeah, but he can do it without the money.
So, what’s left to complain about?
————————————————————-
“People have broken some serious laws in competing against me. In many places my message is banned, and people don’t even get the full picture. When all else fails, censorship is the last resort.”
-What does that have to do with Pickup101 classmates having taken many seminars and deciding this one gave them the best results. The topic wasn’t competition with you, rather knowing how to decide who good instructors are.
————————————————————
“More like something REAL is at stake, so you get a REAL response, instead of some hired gun paid to be nice to some loser AFC who is paying $1,700 to try to be a man.”
-But why go for lower quality feedback? These guys have the money to pay. I’ve heard real girls give real feedback on the street during the workshop too! It’s helpful, but also limited. Why not get both???
————————————————————
“”And they’re NOT pivots, so chill out about your copyrighted word.”
Never said anything about that, but it’s interesting you reacted that way.”
That was pretty well implied you were refering to the paid girls as pivots.
————————————————————-
“Do the students use the line “I’m like Hitch” to pick up?”
-No, it was more like “Hi” or other fun ones if they wanted…least for daygame.
————————————————————–
Four of my books are free on the web already. That’s all anyone gets out of me for free. How cute that you try to take the high road while pretending all the anonymous crap directed at me doesn’t exist.
I don’t know what the anonymous stuff is. Honestly, I hadn’t heard of you until today. I only sporadically read comments and I haven’t in a looong time.
I do, though, know YOU SEND OUT A REALLY WEIRD VIBE with your posts. I think that might be why people give you crap and exclude you from things or whatever else you were complaining about.
————————————————————–
“Any guy who can blow $1,700 on a workshop plus travel and time costs already has the only thing he’ll ever need to get laid.”
-Guys want much more than that. That’s why they pay.
Thundercat, every post of Ray’s that I have had the misfortune of reading has been critical, negative, and full of venom.
Please ban Ray Gordon.
He is a litiginous parasite who has a track record of abusing the legal system. He has already threatened some of your readers with his malicious lawsuits.
Ray has shown a willingness to sue people who disagree with him. He sues everyone, all the time, for everything. Google, Ross Jeffries, maybe NLPRapist. Who knows who Ray will sue next.
If he ever publishes another ebook on seduction, his super killer technique will probably be The Lawsuit Gambit.
“If she won’t sleep with you, sue her”
When people make websites called
“What to do if Ray Gordon sues you”, chances are, you are a man who might be abusing the legal system.
What to do if Ray Gordon Sues You:
http://www.legalspring.com/articles/misc-legal/20050317/412174_What-to-do-if-Gordon.html
Ray Gordon sues Google (loses):
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060317/018225.shtml
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6050667.html
Ray Gordon fails to grasp the law:
http://www.legalspring.com/articles/misc-legal/20041107/392628_Gordon-Roy-Parker-fa.html
Examples of Ray showing how full of love and empathy he is.
Ray on the September 9/11 tragegy.
According to this post,
http://mailgate.supereva.com/rec/rec.gambling.sports/msg119227.html
Ray once said
“There was no significant loss of life in those towers… NOT A ONE”
Ray Gordon, real name: Gordon Roy Parker, September 11 2001
“A bunch of *ASSHOLE* New Yorkers died… don’t grieve”
Ray Gordon, real name: Gordon Roy Parker, September 11 2001
Ray on the suicide of a boy:
http://www.investmentbanter.com/showthread.php?t=54222
This is one of the many money quotes:
“good riddance to the maggot and his mother deserves every ounce of suffering.”
On the slashlegal forum, there’s a lovely post where a man points out that Ray Gordon told a woman who was infatuated with him (good lord, will wonders never cease, maybe Ray can get laid) that he wished her daughter would die.
http://www.slashlegal.com/showthread.php?t=55365&page=2
This technique is known as the “Wish Death On Their Children Neg”
Ray is just a regular Jesus, full of love and light for everyone.
A post on how to stop Ray Gordon and some of his (alleged? real?) criminal activities:
http://www.thehelparchive.com/new-1430465-269.html
People seem to think Ray Gordon is strictly a Seduction Community problem. Google him, and you’ll find out that investment bankers, divorce support groups, video gamers, chess players all have beefs with Ray Gordon.
This quote from one thread on the AVRA chess group is particularly telling:
“Ray Gordon has admitted in this group and in his court pleadings that he is certifiably crazy and that he has been institutionalized from time to time.”
source – http://www.avlerchess.com/chess-misc/What_to_do_about_Ray_Gordon_208007.html
Do I really need to find more links to make my point?
TC, ban Ray Gordon. He has threatened your readers with malicious lawsuits, and he has proven himself mentally unstable enough to carry through with these threats. Frankly, I won’t be surprised if he’s out there talking to his lawyers right now, plotting to sue me for whatever imaginary injustice he thinks I’ve committed against him. If he does, I hope you’ll have the good grace to help me pay for my legal fees.
The longer you let Ray post his crap on this forum, the more likely he is to sue someone. And he will.
Bah, there doesn’t seem to be any evidence that ray has sued anyone in the seduction community. There used to be a faq out there called the RayFaq which was particularly damning, but I haven’t been able to find it. Apparently, Ray had it taken off the internet.
Even if he never sued RJ, he’s still a pain in the ass who threatens everyone.
Man, that Ray Gordon guy is really fuc%ed up.
Damn, reading these posts about Ray Gordon referenced my Max Stirner is better than reading The National Enquirer.
Ray, I knew you had a character defect but you are WAY beyond that.
I did get one thing right though; you DO still live with your mommy. I guess you save a little on rent? LOL
>LTR Stuff
>Again, you’re assuming he didn’t
>continue learning and adapting,
>just because I said he started
>figuring things out in college.
>Pickup101 is a pretty recent
>thing.
And YOU are assuming that others don’t have comparable knowledge yet share it for much lower prices. PU 101 advertises on a site that severely restricts access to a very large market of men, which means the playing field isn’t even level. When that happens, ANY business that is among the ones allowed to tap the market is going to have a huge edge.
If his stuff is so superior, he shouldn’t even allow the appearance of his success being the result of an imbalanced playing field rather than the quality of his offerings.
>Only a couple years old, I
>think. He’s been living in the
>mansion since before that. He’s
>been really good since before
>THAT.
Young guys with money living in urban areas tend to do well, it is true. Still, the fact is that NOW he is in an LTR, and NOW he is making his living from his students, AND he now has “guru” status which many women find a novelty (for now).
I’ve been getting laid since my teens and studying player stuff since 1991 myself, btw.
>ONCE he got to the point where
>he’s seen as a “guru” and his
>company became his life, it’s
>only natural to mention it with
>women. He can do the pickup
>without it.
No way to tell that now, is there? Obviously not, since he doesn’t have to. Just like the HB10 could attract guys if she gained 100 pounds.
>”He claims to be in an LTR,
>which is more or less what an
>AFC does go for the LTR .”
“No, AFC thing to do is to stay in a relationship you’re not completely happy with because you have a scarcity mentality. Having stable MLTR with hot women is not AFC. It’s a skill.”
Is his an MLTR? Does his “girlfriend” allow her man to fuck other women? Oh yeah, women stand on the rooftops bragging about this. Of course, this woman said nothing about her relationship being an MLTR, so I’ll assume absent evidence to the contrary that it’s an LTR.
>Ray: talks about Status factor
>and his g/f stuff
“Reply: Once again, he doesn’t need “pickup guru” factor to pickup women. He was doing great BEFORE he became one.”
Young guys with money tend to do very well with women. Nothing new there. Doesn’t mean it’s “game.”
The 8s and 9s I’ve pulled come from a situation that would be hell for someone used to his income and lifestyle, I can assure you. You need a whole ‘nother level of game to operate that way.
Further, it’s nice to get such a free pass on someone’s past just by saying how great he was. Got specifics? Community guys vouching for each other turns into a commercial mutual admiration society, as well, so I don’t count third-party accounts from that.
>Now that he is one, he’s not
>going to give up the lifestyle
>he was going for since
>before “The Game”, especially
>when customers he attracts want
>that style or something similar.
Being in an LTR and living off money provided by students. That’s AFC. Game is when you live like Mystery did in 1998, and even Mystery changed a lot since then. Now he calls it “hot game” but he used to mock men who were just like he is now as not needing all those trappings, or if they did, he didn’t even count it as “game.”
>I’m not sure what he thinks
>about her on an intimate level,
>but I can tell he doesn’t think
>she’s above the rules or has a
>different psychology than girls.
Well, she didn’t give much of an interview regarding their relationship, so we’re only guessing.
Still, I’ve already crossed path with many of Lance’s friends and business associates, and will very soon be crossing paths with the man himself, becuase of that level-playing-field thing he’s about to get caught up in (he’s advertising in a place that excludes me and other competitors).
Real men don’t need unfair advantages to get ahead, and repudiate those they have. Then again, chicks like money and don’t care about the details.
>>This isn’t like Mystery’s “The
>One”.
So he’ll use up a few of her best years before moving on? Hey, if she’s okay with that, no biggie.
Either that or he’ll marry her, in which case she’ll get half of his wealth by law. Wealth she helps to create by giving him social proof (which in turn results in revenue that directly benefits one-half of a couple of which she is a part).
>”It jumps the shark. He’s no
>longer a regular guy but has
>status, a following, and likely
>more money why quit the other
>job? , or a better lifestyle if
>not more money. Lifestyle
>seduction, however, is AFC
>seduction, not pickup.”
“So, he’s not a regular guy anymore. He had the skillset before Pickup101, a relatively new company, and before guru status, and can still demonstrate the skillset without mentioning this “guru status”.
If all one is looking for is an ONS, maybe their job won’t come into play, but supposedly they are teaching men to get LTRs and lifestyle shit.
Let’s see: 30 seminars x 10 attendees x $1,700 a shot is what? Half-million a year right there. Now add in the other products and stuff.
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
Where’s the proof of all this pre-guru prowess, btw? Got names or do we just take someone’s word for it? If other community guys with commercial interests are the “proof” please save it.
>I’ve seen him demo in field.
>I’ve bumped into him in SF on
>weekends. He can do this.
And who are you?
You saw him fuck women in the field?
>He definitely quit his old job.
>It’d be impossible to manage
>both. I think you have the wrong
>image of what his is like. The
>impression I got from the
>workshops is that the
>instructors bust their assess
>for the company. They’re not
>rolling in dough.
Ah, you’re a customer.
See above for what you consider “not rolling in dough.”
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
>”It’s also not abuout using
>money to get an LTR like an AFC
>would, either.”
“It can be about an M/LTR.”
Women who let their men fuck other women are just dumb sluts. That’s what WOMEN call them, btw.
Would you want your DAUGHTER to be in an “MLTR?”
“MLTR” is “promiscuity” and the antithesis of a “relationship.”
>Everyone has different goals.
>AFC is not a medical or
>psychlogical term based
>experiments. It’s something the
>community came up with.
It describes the type of man who seeks out this type of advice.
Money, LTRs, status, and so forth are classic AFC behavior.
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
>If somehow some of his behavior
>falls under the AFC definition
>which I don’t think it does ,
>then I think the definition
>needs to be revised. There’s
>nothing wrong with eventually
>wanting to settle down with a
>girl after having sex with and
>dating many many women.
If you don’t mind having someone like Mystery game her and fuck her, I suppose. How do I know this will happen with a chick a PUA gets in an LTR? The PUA already proved she can be gamed. Want a woman who isn’t vulnerable? Don’t play games from the get-go.
PUAs specialize in destroying the type of relationship you have so much faith in. Look up terms like “borefriend” and “provider chump” or “boyfriend destroyer” if you want to see what the “theory” says about LTR/Oneitis.
Guy with money gets laid: film at 11.
>I don’t know if that’s his plan,
>but I know he’s plan but don’t
>fault someone for if it is. And
>MLTR isn’t AFC.
For the woman, it’s being a free prostitute for a man who sees her only as a sex object. I doubt his “MLTR” would have gone public, so I’ll assume he’s in an LTR until he says otherwise.
>”Cool when getting paid and
>getting one’s way proves
>nothing.”
“-I’m not really sure what you mean, there.”
It’s easy to be a “cool guy” when unchallenged and when getting one’s way, just like it’s easy to be “cool” about advertising in places that have been marketed with what borders on hate speech against me.
For a “cool guy” he has sure allowed his “friends” to get away with some pretty disgusting behavior.
>”Their customers are providing
>money and status, which attracts
>women. In fact, since women are
>at the seminars, the customers
>are giving their money
>indirectly to these WOMEN.
>That’s what AFC chumps do.
“-Uhhhh….I think there’s deeper issues going on with you.”
Nothing more than you being a baby because you can’t stand the truth.
> I’m not living my life to hate
>women or always thinking about
>how not to give in to them or
>whatever mentality that quote
>reflects. I enjoy women, on many
>levels.
And the women at your workshop enjoy the money they made by being paid to be nice to you.
Did you FUCK any of those women, or were they telling you how much of a better man you were while fucking someone else?
Remember the hot female friend who couldn’t believe you didn’t have a girlfriend yet ran into one wrong guy after another?
>Musings on his g/f cheating with
>Mystery and what community
>theory says about it
“-That’s assuming she’s not allowed to date other guys and maybe Mystery could. I don’t know. Who cares.”
Anyone who knows the difference between slut trash and a girlfriend would care. I suspect she’s a girlfriend, given that she went public. You’re the one who talks about MLTRs.
If it were your wife in the relationship, I suspect you’d figure out the difference really quickly.
“And it’s not inconceivable that some community theory is wrong.”
Oh, a lot of it is wrong, and in fact hurts EVERY guy because the “AFCs” don’t know how to win these games even though they have the ultimate winning position. A PUA is like a parasite who feeds off the AFC host, which is why mainstream exposure is destroying the effectiveness of all methods.
“Think of how much scrutiny, controlled experiments, peer reviewing by PhDs mainstream psychological theory goes through and sometimes it’s still wrong or we find a deeper truth.”
Which is something people should keep in mind when they trash other ideas so quickly.
I wasn’t going that deep, however, I just pointed out that gurus use student money and status to build a lifestyle that women find appealing.
>About Yuko not divulging all in
>the magazine article
>Who pays for this? The students.
>Literally.”
“So, what? It’s a business. Refer to previous replies on this. And Yuko is smart not to get into more details.”
She can’t have it both ways, bragging about this great guy she’s with and then denying all scrutiny of her statements against her actions. Just like actors who enter the public eye and then complain about the paparazzi. Don’t make the claims if you can’t back them up or defend them.
The students are paying for the lifestyle that made her boyfriend desirable to women in general. Even if she’s not a golddigger, he still has leverage from other women who are into him for his money and status (and of course the B-list connections that many gurus have now).
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
“The more you tell the media the more they can spin it their way.”
Nice deflection of any scrutiny.
“**********You have some weird thoughts on this and I know a number of them to be completely wrong,”
From the expert who just got done learning the basics of dealing with women? Wow.
“so that makes me question other statements you make that I don’t know as much about. **********”
Didn’t realize you knew so much about women.
What I said about the money and lifestyle is 100 percent correct, however. Rich guys get laid no matter what, and that wouldn’t be possible without at least a percentage of women being willing to whore themselves out for it.
>”Lance gets his money from men
>he teaches how to get women.
>Women like guys with money.”
“Okay, so this is basically what you’re saying over and over.
The simple replies are:
-DUH, no one cares.”
If no one cares, then the students have no problem with what I said. Doesn’t make it any less true, however.
“and -Yeah, but he can do it without the money.”
He was a software programmer with money before that. Before that he was a college student with potential. He’s always had an advantage in that area.
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
“So, what’s left to complain about?”
You’re the one doing the complaining.
>”People have broken some serious
>laws in competing against me. In
>many places my message is
>banned, and people don’t even
>get the full picture. When all
>else fails, censorship is the
>last resort.”
“-What does that have to do with Pickup101 classmates having taken many seminars and deciding this one gave them the best results.”
If you never saw ads for the competition, you were denied all the information in making your decision.
>The topic wasn’t competition
>with you, rather knowing how to
>decide who good instructors are.
That implies you’re being given a full menu when you aren’t.
What do you think would happen if most major TV networks decided they would no longer take Pepsi ads but would take them from every other soda company? Hint: they’d be sued for antitrust violations.
>”More like something REAL is at
>stake, so you get a REAL
>response, instead of some hired
>gun paid to be nice to some
>loser AFC who is paying $1,700
>to try to be a man.”
“-But why go for lower quality feedback? These guys have the money to pay.”
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
>I’ve heard real girls give real
>feedback on the street during
>the workshop too! It’s helpful,
>but also limited. Why not get
>both???
The hired guns are artificial unless you are actually gaming them. Did you fuck any of the hired guns? You paid them indirectly.
Paying women is an AFC thing.
You seem to forget I go back eight years in this stuff, back when it was not the commercial machine that sucked up your money.
>”"And they’re NOT pivots, so
>chill out about your copyrighted
>word.”
>”Never said anything about that,
>but it’s interesting you reacted
>that way.”
“That was pretty well implied you were refering to the paid girls as pivots.”
They are. I was talking about legal shit relating to the word. They are hired guns who give the instructors social proof, and worse, they are getting a piece of the action, which puts it in their financial interest to help the guru.
Then again, with rich guys, money and women seem intertwined a lot so at least it’s congruent.
>”Do the students use the
>line “I’m like Hitch” to pick
>up?”
“-No, it was more like “Hi” or other fun ones if they wanted…least for daygame.”
Yet the gurus use the line I gave more often, and if not as an opener, they use it as a DHV.
>Four of my books are free on the
>web already. That’s all anyone
>gets out of me for free. How
>cute that you try to take the
>high road while pretending all
>the anonymous crap directed at
>me doesn’t exist.
“I don’t know what the anonymous stuff is. Honestly, I hadn’t heard of you until today.”
Exactly. Thanks to censorship (elsewhere), you were never given access to my methods when you had an open mind.
“I only sporadically read comments and I haven’t in a looong time. I do, though, know YOU SEND OUT A REALLY WEIRD VIBE with your posts. I think that might be why people give you crap and exclude you from things or whatever else you were complaining about.:
Ah, the “you deserve it” defense. Read the court filings I’ve made if you want to see what I’m talking about as to what people did. That you would react that way says you have a preexisting bias unless you’re just plain stupid. Maybe it’s both.
Now I see why women view you as such a pathetic loser that you paid so much money to a guru to “be your friend” and teach you this stuff.
I winged with two top-level PUAs for entire summers and never had to pay them a dime. Not everyone has to BUY attention from other people, you know.
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
>”Any guy who can blow $1,700 on
>a workshop plus travel and time
>costs already has the only thing
>he’ll ever need to get laid.”
“-Guys want much more than that. That’s why they pay.”
HB10s want much more than guys being into their looks as well, but in the real world, what gets them the guy?
See, when you talk up one source of information you are, with your actions, trashing the others. You speak of YOUR idol as if no one else could offer anything comparable or at a lower price.
As for Lance, he’ll be getting some paperwork from me soon enough, so you can see him explain his side that you seem to have already taken in a much more formal setting.
I also notice you are using a fake name, unless you are that famous poet.
Alpha males wouldn’t dream of something like that. Then again, alphas aren’t such pathetic losers with women that they pay thousands of dollars to learn the basics of dealing with them.
“Max,”
“The longer you let Ray post his crap on this forum, the more likely he is to sue someone. And he will.”
It’s one thing to criticize someone, but what you are doing is pure defamation and harassment. Anonymous internet harassment happens to be a felony, and posts like that go to law enforcement (I’m referring to the vitrol).
You also are now “all in” on the amended lawsuit I’m about to file. You realize whoever put you up to this did it because they want YOU taking the fall for them, I hope.
Hope the guys who haven’t spent money yet take a good look at what happens when someone questions these “gurus,” especially the role of money in their “game.” Look at the personal attacks, and then realize that you are giving your money, your name, your life story and a ton of other information to these people.
Think they wouldn’t turn on YOU if you started raising the same questions? Think again.
“TC, ban Ray Gordon. He has threatened your readers with malicious lawsuits, and he has proven himself mentally unstable enough to carry through with these threats. Frankly, I won’t be surprised if he’s out there talking to his lawyers right now, plotting to sue me for whatever imaginary injustice he thinks I’ve committed against him. If he does, I hope you’ll have the good grace to help me pay for my legal fees.”
You call someone “certifiably crazy” you better damn well be ready to PROVE that. You also should have checked your other information before posting shit like that.
Now if he ever had the balls to talk to a woman the way he just talked to me, he wouldn’t be such a loser that he had to take workshops in the first place.
As for his “guru,” it’s pretty pathetic if his students feel the need to trash his competitors this way, and very revealing in its own right.
Wonder if Yuko is reading this thread. Then again, that can be arranged very easily.
40 Year Old Virgin wets his mommy’s bed: Film at 11.
“40 Year Old Virgin wets his mommy’s bed: Film at 11.”
You know, the same reporters who cover the gurus will also cover stuff like this about the gurus.
Especially when people start behaving this way.
For example, one poster here claims to have become a “better man” as a result of a certain workshop.
Perhaps the reporter who did the story on the guru might want to see what that “better man” has been saying here.
I’m not assuming other don’t have comparable knowledge at lower prices. In this convo, I’m defending a company that’s helped me.
But since you brought it up, what who else teaches women, social, and style skills with similar/better results in other parts of my life for less?
————————————
I assume the reason he doesn’t worry about working to make sure people don’t think he’s good because of money is because there are very few people like you do claim so.
——————-
What makes you think Lance hasn’t also been getting laid since his teens and studying women since before 1991?
As for the LTR, people don’t seem to care, as long as he can teach them what they want.
——————–
“No way to tell that now, is there?”
Well, the way to tell if he was good before is to talk to those who knew him before PU101, perhaps the guys who have bee in the SF Lair longer. That’s whom I’ve talked to. You’re making assumptions assuming one way or the other.
———————-
“Is his an MLTR? Does his “girlfriend” allow her man to fuck other women? ”
-I’m not going too deep on this topic, because I’ve met and respect the girl and I don’t have all the details. I know he’s given a seminar on MLTRs, though.
————————–
“Being in an LTR and living off money provided by students. That’s AFC.”
-That’s your opinion. You say AFC is asking for advice, but he’s not doing that.
You say he’s living offf students as if it’s a relevation. But it’s what’s expected and assumed when students pay him.
————————–
I don’t get it. The GF’s comments to the magazine wouldn’t change whether Lance thought she was above other women. Lance has said the same material works on her. She’s not above the theories on women.
—————————-
“Real men don’t need unfair advantages to get ahead, ”
-He got ahead before the advantage. Once he got it, it’d be stupid not to use it, though.
————————-
“Either that or he’ll marry her, in which case she’ll get half of his wealth by law.”
Of course he’ll either move on or marry her. What’s the problem? And marriage doesn’t mean splitting the wealth half way…they have legal forms for that stuff. I can’t believe you said that.
————————-
“Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.”
“Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.”
“Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.”
-No one responds to this, because no one really cares. You can repeat it all you want, but people don’t seem to care, because they believe he can do it without being rich. Seems like YOU are being closed-minded about other methods..
————————
“You saw him fuck women in the field?”
-I haven’t seen YOU’RE game from start to “finish”. Is that a necessity. I have seen him with some HOT women just randomly at a club.
———————–
“Women who let their men fuck other women are just dumb sluts. That’s what WOMEN call them, btw.”
-What relationship status should a guy who’s really good with women have in your opinion? Apparently not MLTR and not single LTR…
————————-
“It describes the type of man who seeks out this type of advice.”
-He doesn’t. He gives it out. So, how is him being in an LTR make him an AFC?
—————————
“PUAs specialize in destroying the type of relationship you have so much faith in.”
-There all kinds of relationship types. I’m okay with different kinds. Which do you believe in?
————————————-
Ray: About how he PU101′s advertising locations
Me: I don’t know the history you have with different sites, but nothing I’ve seen has made me think negative comments or behaviors toward you are unjustified (then again, I haven’t seen them all).
————————————–
“And the women at your workshop enjoy the money they made by being paid to be nice to you.”
-They’re paid to give positive and negative feedback like making them comfortable or curious or being too creepy, etc. It’s OBVIOUS that’s not enough and obvious that’s not our only source of feedback. The COMBINATION of exercises make the course good.
—————————————-
“She can’t have it both ways, bragging about this great guy she’s with and then denying all scrutiny of her statements against her actions.”
-Seems to me like she does have it both ways. She made the statement she wanted and said no more.
—————————————
Me: “”**********You have some weird thoughts on this and I know a number of them to be completely wrong, so that makes me question other statements you make that I don’t know as much about. **********”"
Ray: “From the expert who just got done learning the basics of dealing with women? Wow.”
Me: I’m not talking women theory. I’m thinking about things you said about Lance not based on truth. Only reason I knew it wasn’t true was because I’ve been through the workshops. So, now i worry about other things I don’t know about that you may have also been wrong on. Things I don’t know enough to call BS on.
————————–
“If you never saw ads for the competition, you were denied all the information in making your decision.”
-Again, hat doesn’t have to do with students being able to know who is a good teacher and who isn’t. That has to do with deciding who is the best out there. Say you were the best but never got marketing space (my guess is if you were banned it was as a result of an action of yours), that wouldn’t mean a student can’t say Lance is a good instructor based on comparing 4 other instructos he’s had. If Lance can get people results, that’s good.
—————————-
“Paying women is an AFC thing.”
-I don’t think people are caring as long as it’s helping them out on their journey to being better with women.
As for the pivots, common definition in the community is a girl who helps you get others in the field, not stand-ins who give feedback in the classroom. And they’re NOT that much social proof if they’re hired.
——————————
“Yet the gurus use the line I gave more often, and if not as an opener, they use it as a DHV.”
-What line are you talking about? The hitch thing? I’ve never heard of that.
——————————
“Exactly. Thanks to censorship (elsewhere), you were never given access to my methods when you had an open mind.”
-I still have an open mind to different methods, as do most people who take PU101. What turns me off to studying your stuff is the way you complain on here about how everyone treats you, the lawsuit stuff, the assumptions about others.
People don’t want to put up with that stuff.
I guess I’m biased, but all the biasedness comes only from this and one other thread. Am I not supposed to judge based on what I see of your character?
——————————
RAY: “Now I see why women view you as such a pathetic loser that you paid so much money to a guru to “be your friend” and teach you this stuff.
I winged with two top-level PUAs for entire summers and never had to pay them a dime. Not everyone has to BUY attention from other people, you know.”
Me: Trying to get an emotional response out of me or something? That only works if I cared about the person saying it.
If I’m a pathetic loser, it makes sense for me to do something to be more socially inclined and have more fun with women. Seems right to me.
——————————
“You speak of YOUR idol as if no one else could offer anything comparable or at a lower price.”
-What I’m doing is defending an instructor I’ve had, rather than saying this is the only way. I also see faults with my instructor. Not idolizing. But will defend a class that’s helped me.
——————————
“I also notice you are using a fake name, unless you are that famous poet.
Alpha males wouldn’t dream of something like that. Then again, alphas aren’t such pathetic losers with women that they pay thousands of dollars to learn the basics of dealing with them.”
-I’m using an online handle I created, not a “fake name”. I don’t like registering to leave comments online, anywhere, so I signed it ForcedToRegister to show displeasure in it. You’re totally just grasping for stuff, now.
So, who has been trashing competitors? Please quote with context.
Your character shows through in your posts. Stuff about lawsuits and and cheap shots (like about my online handle), and contacting Lance with papers and bla bla bla.
I get a sketchy vibe from you. But I guess it’s everyone else that’s wrong and you’re the one who is right.
Ray, Ray, Ray,
Why are you ignoring my post? Because it’s TRUE and Ray Gordon can’t handle the truth. I will repost it below. Be a man Ray and admit that you are a liar.
Repost:
Ray, Ray, Ray,
I’ve only been reading your posts for about a week and it’s clear to me now that you are delusional. I’m guessing that you are in your 40’s but you have the emotional maturity of a thirteen-year-old boy. Your concept of reality is shaky. I’m glad you have The DSM-IV at your bedside. Maybe it can be of some help to you.
“at my age, it’s now or never for becoming a GM or more.”
Ray, you will never be a Chess Grandmaster. You have a 1900 rating. You will never even become a master. Mark my words. At your age it’s almost impossible. It would take a tremendous about of time and dedication. You spend too much time living your life vicariously through the internet.
“I’ve beaten chess GMs and plan on beating many more in the future.”
I doubt it. Tell us who they are and publish the moves. There is NO WAY that you have beaten Grandmasters in a tournament game. Maybe you beat “Yuri” in a time odds game over the internet after he drank two bottles of vodka? LOL
“I did say that chess publishing has AMAZING profit potential, almost as much as seduction”
As I said before, the chess publishing market is VERY SMALL and you are a *&$%@ “A” player, AKA a patzer. No chess player who wants to improve his game would buy a book written by an “A” player.
“Right now, I’m looking at taking on 5-10 very wealthy men as students in a “lounge” format.”
Ray, any thirteen-year-old boy can deduce from your writings that you have no skill with women. If fact, I’m quite certain that you are a virgin, unless you went to a prostitute. You probably still live with your mother.
“I was excluded from many advertising venues because my prices are lower and my work is as good or better than most of my competition.
LOL, you think THAT’S the reason? It is because you are a GRANDMASTER at alienating yourself from people. Which is also why everyone knows that you have no skill with women. You are a pariah and social idiot.
“For you to profit from that (I can prove it if you want to push me) and then try to be civil with me is a joke”
LOL (again), why should other businessmen be punished for your business stupidity?
“I’m wondering Ray…. would you go to cliffs convention if you got an invite?”
Ray’s Response – “Too many threats of violence against me to consider public appearances at this time, unless it’s a major media outfit.”
Ray, everyone knows that you will NEVER show yourself in public (the non-internet world). You are a delusional KJ. Period.
Whoever asked Thundercat to ban Ray must understand that Ray is a life support system for this blog.
Mr. Gordon,
I would like to offer my apologies. Please note that I’ve requested that Thundercat remove my previous entries.
It was never my intent to harass you. My entry was directed towards Thundercat. I felt at the time that you were a disruptive force on the blog, and hoped he could bring order to the site.
No malice was ever intended. I will not post here further, and I ask that you forgive my intemperance.
It’s worth mentioning that I do not know Lance, nor am I familiar with any of his products.
All I can do is wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.
“I’m not assuming other don’t
have comparable knowledge at
lower prices. In this convo, I’m
defending a company that’s helped me. But since you brought it up, what who else teaches women, social, and style skills with similar/better results in other parts of my life for less?”
Unlike many in this industry, I don’t consider myself objective when it comes to rating competitors, so I stay neutral. Anonymous testimonials are also very dubious on the internet.
“I assume the reason he doesn’t worry about working to make sure people don’t think he’s good because of money is because there are very few people like you do claim so.”
Doesn’t change the reality that he’s a young guy with money.
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
“What makes you think Lance hasn’t also been getting laid since his teens and studying women since before 1991?”
If he were man enough to speak for himself, he could clear all this up. He’s had money or potential earning power in his favor for a very long time, however. Anyone who calls others “losers” based on their income or living situation has already demonstrated their knowledge of the role of money in appealing to women socially.
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
“As for the LTR, people don’t seem to care, as long as he can teach them what they want.”
While using their money and the guru status to “fund his game.”
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
>”No way to tell that now, is
>there?”
“Well, the way to tell if he was good before is to talk to those who knew him before PU101, perhaps the guys who have bee in the SF Lair longer.”
Lairs are linked to commercial interests. How about we talk to the exes themselves?
“That’s whom I’ve talked to.”
Exactly who?
“You’re making assumptions assuming one way or the other.”
Sounds more like you are. In fact, why doesn’t Lance speak for himself? Is he pussy-whipped?
“Is his an MLTR? Does his “girlfriend” allow her man to fuck other women? ”
“-I’m not going too deep on this topic, because I’ve met and respect the girl and I don’t have all the details.”
How convenient.
“I know he’s given a seminar on MLTRs, though.”
Women who let their men fuck other women are pure sluts and whores. Often they are true whores because they only put up with it if the guy is rich.
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
>Being in an LTR and living off
>money provided by students.
>That’s AFC.”
“-That’s your opinion. You say AFC is asking for advice, but he’s not doing that.”
LTRs are for AFCs. How about he prove she hasn’t cut his balls off by speaking for himself? Will she ALLOW him to?
“You say he’s living offf students as if it’s a relevation. But it’s what’s expected and assumed when students pay him.”
That type of “game” isn’t what he teaches however, but it is what he runs since it’s what he lives.
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
“I don’t get it. The GF’s comments to the magazine wouldn’t change whether Lance thought she was above other women. Lance has said the same material works on her. She’s not above the theories on women.”
Then she can be easily gamed by other men. Which methods are we talking about again? Having money and status from the students?
Which SPECIFIC tactics were used? All we heard about is some “ipod opener” at the gym. He wants to use his relationship as proof of game, it becomes fair game for examination.
The devil is in the details. Even then, howevewr, it’s still a guy with money and both parties will always downplay that role, even when that’s usually the common denominator.
If it’s an LTR, however, then that’s just AFC.
>Real men don’t need unfair
>advantages to get ahead, ”
“-He got ahead before the advantage. Once he got it, it’d be stupid not to use it, though.”
I was talking about his access to the market, through channels that cut off most of his competitors. Real men would never do that.
>”Either that or he’ll marry her,
>in which case she’ll get half of
>his wealth by law.”
“Of course he’ll either move on or marry her. What’s the problem?”
A man with a long history of fucking chicks is a good bet to “move on.” The problem? The woman AGES when this happens, and if she doesn’t wind up married, she loses several of her best years.
>And marriage doesn’t mean
>splitting the wealth half
>way…they have legal forms for
>that stuff. I can’t believe you
>said that.
So the marriage is PURCHASED BEFOREHAND? As if a prenup is any different, and if she doesn’t get paid, the thing won’t hold up in court.
Real men also speak for themselves, so perhaps he can try that sometime.
>————————-
>”Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.”
>”Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.”
>”Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.”
>-No one responds to this, >because no one really cares.
Now he speaks for everyone or thinks to. Seems several people care, however, since they’ve posted similar things about money and gurus in other threads.
What kind of an asshole thinks he speaks for everyone that way anyhow?
“You can repeat it all you want,”
Thanks for the permission!
“but people don’t seem to care, because they believe he can do it without being rich.”
Something he’ll never even have to prove. Well, it’s good to know what the customer base thinks. Doesn’t change, however, that:
Rich man gets laid; film at 11.
“Seems like YOU are being closed-
minded about other methods.. ”
I’m not the one excluding equal competition in this marketplace, or profiting from it while acting like the imbalance doesn’t exist.
>”You saw him fuck women in the
>field?”
“-I haven’t seen YOU’RE game from start to “finish”.”
So now it’s I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I? Or is the answer to my question “no.”
“Is that a necessity. I have seen him with some HOT women just randomly at a club.”
Being seen with hot women in a club. Well, I have nothing more to add to that litmus test.
Rich guy gets attention from HBs: film at 11.
>”Women who let their men fuck
>other women are just dumb sluts.
>That’s what WOMEN call them,
>btw.”
“-What relationship status should a guy who’s really good with women have in your opinion?”
Guys who have money and status shouldn’t be entering the “really good with women arena” unless they’re prepared to seduce literally the sexiest women in this country or even the world.
Now maybe a 26 year-old, miniskirt wearing software engineer is in that league. I haven’t seen her pic, so I wouldn’t know. However, she sounds pretty typical of what you see in an LTR with an AFC with money.
If she endorses MLTR since she said it’s part of “treating women better” (her general defense of her PUA “boyfriend”), those loyal men should take comfort in learning that it’s okay to fuck other women even in a relationship.
>Apparently not MLTR and not
>single LTR…
“not single LTR?” Is he fucking other women or not?
Women who let their men fuck other women are pure trash, whores, sluts, and stupid, according to most *women* anyway.
>”It describes the type of man
>who seeks out this type of
>advice.”
“-He doesn’t. He gives it out.”
Yet his own game is set up by things other than what he teaches (MLTR is what he teaches or so you say).
Rich guy gets laid: film at 11.
>So, how is him being in an LTR
>make him an AFC?
It used to, back in the old days before the gurus got real money and started viewing money as part of “game.” We used terms like PROVIDER CHUMP and so forth. The problem with an LTR, especially with a woman who is “gamed,” is that if it took games to get her, it will take games to keep her, just like if it takes money to get a woman, it takes money to keep her as well.
>”PUAs specialize in destroying
>the type of relationship you
>have so much faith in.”
“-There all kinds of relationship types. I’m okay with different kinds. Which do you believe in?”
For women, it’s clear that marriage without premarital sex is necessary for her to avoid being used like a cheap slut, since the man doesn’t have to do anything more than pay lip service to commitment. Women are stupid, however, and are giving away the store. PUAs are exploiting this.
Herein lies the problem: all the “games” that men have to play are the result of women destroying the courtship process with bad faith. In the 1950s, asking a woman out on a date meant you were courting her, and a relationship had begun (even if nonsexual). By the 1980s, however, women saw courtship as a sign of weakness and started going for the worst type of man for the long haul. They began taking advantage of men who treated them well rather than reward it. That’s how the player movement was born.
Someone five years ago said that the mainstream was going to copy the black community, where no one trusts anyone (women and men, as expressed constantly in their culture), the men are “playas” and the women “bitches and hoes.” Then we’re going to love each other at the end of the day? Come on.
>Ray: About how he PU101′s
>advertising locations
“Me: I don’t know the history you have with different sites, but nothing I’ve seen has made me think negative comments or behaviors toward you are unjustified (then again, I haven’t seen them all).”
You’re weaseling here, trying to avoid saying shit you know would get you sued and which you wouldn’t dare try on anyone else.
If that’s your idea of a “better man” you need a reality check.
>And the women at your workshop
>enjoy the money they made by
>being paid to be nice to you.
“-They’re paid to give positive and negative feedback like making them comfortable or curious or being too creepy, etc. It’s OBVIOUS that’s not enough and obvious that’s not our only source of feedback. The COMBINATION of exercises make the course good.”
The women now have a financial interest in promoting this industry. Expect the strippers to invade very soon, since they can teach game just as well as any PUA.
Wouldn’t be shocked if the women dominate this industry very soon, come to think of it, because if a guy’s going to pay a lot to learn game from a woman whose job it is to run it (and she can prove her successes because she will act at her strip job as she recommends guys act in field, rather than being in an LTR while claiming to be a PUA).
>”She can’t have it both ways,
>bragging about this great guy
>she’s with and then denying all
>scrutiny of her statements
>against her actions.”
“-Seems to me like she does have it both ways. She made the statement she wanted and said no more.”
That she says no more says as much as her saying stuff would.
>Me: “”**********You have some
>weird thoughts on this and I
>know a number of them to be
>completely wrong, so that makes
>me question other statements you
>make that I don’t know as much
>about. **********”"
>Ray: “From the expert who just
>got done learning the basics of
>dealing with women? Wow.”
“Me: I’m not talking women theory. I’m thinking about things you said about Lance not based on truth.”
I said he has money and that his lifestyle is funded by his students.
Please explain how this is not accurate.
“Only reason I knew it wasn’t true was because I’ve been through the workshops.”
So you’ve only seen him at his job then, and not in any extended setting. A total of how many days of your lives? Three?
“So, now i worry about other things I don’t know about that you may have also been wrong on. Things I don’t know enough to call BS on.”
Wrong on what again?
>”If you never saw ads for the
>competition, you were denied all
>the information in making your
>decision.”
“-Again, hat doesn’t have to do with students being able to know who is a good teacher and who isn’t. That has to do with deciding who is the best out there.”
They are connected, since the presence of a good or bad teacher will alter the grade curve.
“Say you were the best but never got marketing space (my guess is if you were banned it was as a result of an action of yours),”
Nice little ambush tucked away in a sentence like that from the alleged “better man” after his $1,700 workshop.
More fodder for the media (all these posts are going to the reporters who cover this industry, btw). The media understands anticompetitive behavior, as well.
You just showed a flaw that will manifest itself in your results with women in the future.
“that wouldn’t mean a student can’t say Lance is a good instructor based on comparing 4 other instructos he’s had. If Lance can get people results, that’s good.”
If he ignores an injustice from which he profits, that’s not.
>”Paying women is an AFC thing.”
“-I don’t think people are caring as long as it’s helping them out on their journey to being better with women.”
So when the strippers take over and help the men out “more than any man ever could” (their slogan), you’ll be just as loud in their favor, right? That is the next logical step for the assistant instructors, is it not?
>As for the pivots, common
>definition in the community is a
>girl who helps you get others in
>the field, not stand-ins who
>give feedback in the classroom.
>And they’re NOT that much social
>proof if they’re hired.
I know what a pivot is. I’m the one who debuted the term and the concept back in my 1999 book “29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy.”
I know they aren’t much social proof. That was my point.
>”Yet the gurus use the line I
>gave more often, and if not as
>an opener, they use it as a DHV.”
“-What line are you talking about? The hitch thing? I’ve never heard of that.”
You don’t see the gurus when they aren’t at work, obviously.
>”Exactly. Thanks to censorship
>(elsewhere), you were never
>given access to my methods when
>you had an open mind.”
“-I still have an open mind to different methods, as do most people who take PU101. What turns me off to studying your stuff is the way you complain on here about how everyone treats you, the lawsuit stuff, the assumptions about others.”
Lawsuits are part of business and have nothing to do with one’s methods. If you want to pretend that someone lying about you wouldn’t bother you or that you wouldn’t refute it, go ahead with that lie.
If you want to believe rich guys have game beyond money, go ahead with that.
The joke’s on you, actually, because you should be fucking centerfolds if you earn even $50k a year.
Say, who are you fucking that makes you so much better now that you spent all that money?
“People don’t want to put up with that stuff.”
Well, if a man wants to ignore someone on those grounds even if he could have learned to fuck 10s, I guess he showed me!
“I guess I’m biased, but all the biasedness comes only from this and one other thread. Am I not supposed to judge based on what I see of your character?”
If you choose to believe the lies people tell about me, or expect me to let others tell these lies, then you’re not much of an alpha, or you’re applying a different standard to others than to yourself.
Any decision making process based on emotion rather than objective analysis of the methods speaks for itself.
Now, why should anyone believe your progress? Who are you fucking? No one here knows you from Adam.
Guys with money get laid easily anyhow, and they attribute it to game because they don’t want to call themselves Johns.
>RAY: “Now I see why women view
>you as such a pathetic loser
>that you paid so much money to a
>guru to “be your friend” and
>teach you this stuff.
>I winged with two top-level PUAs
>for entire summers and never had
>to pay them a dime. Not everyone
>has to BUY attention from other
>people, you know.”
“Me: Trying to get an emotional response out of me or something?
That only works if I cared about the person saying it.”
It’s the truth, however, you had to BUY your way into the PUA circle. God knows how many women laughed at you for so long. Bet they even tried to fix you up with males.
“If I’m a pathetic loser, it makes sense for me to do something to be more socially inclined and have more fun with women. Seems right to me.”
Long as the money flows you’ll get attention. Did any PUAs teach you for free?
You’re just a commercial target, a WHALE. An ATM to them and nothing more.
>”You speak of YOUR idol as if no
>one else could offer anything
>comparable or at a lower price.”
“-What I’m doing is defending an instructor I’ve had, rather than saying this is the only way.”
Why the need to defend? And at this length?
>I also see faults with my
>instructor. Not idolizing. But
>will defend a class that’s
>helped me.
To an amazing extent, that’s for sure.
>”I also notice you are using a
>fake name, unless you are that
>famous poet.
“Alpha males wouldn’t dream of something like that. Then again, alphas aren’t such pathetic losers with women that they pay thousands of dollars to learn the basics of dealing with them.”
-I’m using an online handle I created, not a “fake name”. I don’t like registering to leave comments online, anywhere, so I signed it ForcedToRegister to show displeasure in it. You’re totally just grasping for stuff, now.”
I’m pointing out that you are anonymous and that it’s impossible to verify any of your claims of improvement, or even to see what frame of reference you speak from.
That you say I somehow “deserved” the defamatio and harassment in this thread above me is something I’ll make sure the media sees as evidence of how a man who thinks he’s so much “better” behaves.
“Max,”
Too late.
You’re all in.