Commercialism And Credibility
June 1, 2006 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
Okay, there’s been a lot of talk on this blog about a few things that I want to address, not just about me, but about friends of mine and issues I feel affect the community in general.
And I’m sure it’s gonna get ugly before it gets pretty again…
The subject is one of much controversy lately: Commercialism.
Some look at it as the root of all evil, some hate all involved in it, some just want everything to be free and for no one to ever make any profit off the community – ever.
Okay, fair enough. But let’s have an honest discussion about this stuff here.
First of all, yes, I admit – I’m a commercial guy. Didn’t start off that way, but now I’m into it. I don’t make any bones about it. I sell a book, I belong to commission based affiliate programs, and all that stuff.
In short: I make money off of this site and other sites I run.
NO SURPRISE.
But understand one thing… I have a code I live by. A "moral" code. I’ve always preached that in order to be successful – with anything – you need to have standards and you need to stick to them. You must have rules you set for yourself that YOU FOLLOW, and never break – not once. No exceptions.
Be it with women, work, health, what have you… rules will keep you on the path to success, and you break them at your own peril.
Here are my rules:
1. I do not endorse anything I have not used myself and do not believe in. If you see me recommend a product, seminar, ebook, service, workshop – whatever – on this site, it is because I THINK ITS GOOD. In the end, the only thing I have to go on is what I feel has helped me to grow as a person. I get approached reguarly from various websites want to exchange links, sign me up as an affiliate, get me to run promotions, etc.
I turn 99% of them DOWN.
Simply because I can see in two minutes whether or not they actually have something valuable to contribute to my growth as a human being or not. If they don’t, I pass them by and you NEVER hear about them from me or on this site.
2. I do not claim to be anything I’m not. I don’t walk around singing "I’m the greatest PUA in the world, the other guys suck and stole everything they know from me." I don’t post false field reports, and I don’t claime to be even one of the TOP PUAs.
I’m still learning, just like the rest of you. I feel like I will probably NEVER be a top PUA in the community, and you know what? I’m cool with that – because I don’t want to be a master PUA. I want to be a guy with a great lifestyle who has wonderful women to share it with. I don’t want to have threesomes every night. I want to find one special girl for me. Since I got involved in the community years ago, my life has completely changed for the better, and I’m a much happier man for it.
When it comes to seducing women and getting them into bed the very night you meet them, there are much better guys than me out there. I know a few things, but for the most part, that’s still part of my game I’m working on.
However, I do know how to approach women like nobodies business, and that’s what I teach. Its fun to teach that. Its fun to go out to a club and try something new that works and then teach it to others. I enjoy that stuff.
There have been many opportunities for me to create new products based on stuff I don’t feel I’m qualified to teach, and I have resisted them for that very reason. Not only is this right from a moral standpoint, but if I did try to "fake it" in this community, I’d have my ass handed to me. All the liars and cheats eventually get exposed.
3. I value others who need help and are willing to recieve it. This is my most important rule. For me, going commercial was never about getting rich. It was really about helping others as I help myself. There are LOTS of men out there who need help with women, men who’ve had experiences similar to mine, who I can relate to. But not all of them WANT to be helped. They want to wallow in their misery and complain and stay stuck where they are.
The people who truly want to change are the people I value, and want to help. Having money to advertise helps me to reach them. Having money to go out and meet more women and learn helps me to develop and pass on my knowledge.
I get lots of emails every day from guys who want help, and though I can’t answer them all personally, I try to when I can. And when I can’t, I try to either put up a blog post here concerning the issue, or I create a product to sell.
But make no mistake about it: I do not look at people as dollar signs. I would never sell anything I don’t believe wouldn’t help others. When I was at my lowest, I needed something to give me hope, direction, and take me by the hand to guide me. I do not want to ever be involved in anything that could hurt someone who needs that type of help, and that’s why this rule is very important and close to my heart.
Now that you know where I’m coming from, let’s talk a bit about the Annihilation Method…
I know that the marketing and promotion for that turned a lot of people off. But understand something:
If You Were Turned Off By The Marketing, This Product Was Not For You.
Look, I’ve been a fan of Neil for years. He was the one guy I admired most in the community, before his book ever hit the shelves, before anyone even really knew of him, he was someone I respected and admired for his skills at seduction (all you need to do is read the archives of my blog to know this).
When I had the chance to work with him on the Annihilation Method seminar – I JUMPED AT IT. Like all of you, I’m a constant student, and to have a chance to learn from THE MASTER (I don’t care what anyone says, he’s #1 in my book) was an opportunity I couldn’t pass up.
I was involved with the seminar, and the making of the course, but Style was in charge the whole time. I wasn’t some "puppeteer" pulling the strings behind the scenes. I was there to assist Neil in any way I could, and sometimes he made decisions independently of me that honestly surprised me.
Things like: Giving money to charity.
Things like: Putting on a free seminar for everyone who bought the course.
Things like: Only releasing 375 copies of the Annihilation Method.
But regardless of all that, we both knew that the Annihilation Method was a KILLER course. Its unlike anything this community had ever seen before, or probably ever will see again.
I showed sneak peaks of it to my friends, people like Steve Piccus, Masterclass, The One, and Zan – each and every one of them was amazed by what they saw.
The five guys Neil coached personally saw radically different results with women within ONE DAY of being at the workshop, and their lives haven’t slowed down since. We have a private message board we post on (Neil, me, and the final five) and I’m constantly amazed by their progress.
Understand: Pick-up isn’t just some knowledge base you are entitled to. It is a SKILL SET. you pay to be trained in skill sets.
Want to be a doctor? Spend $100,000 for med school to learn the skills of a doctor. Want to be a lawyer? Spend $100,000 for law school and learn the skills of a lawyer. Want to be a mechanic? Spend the money to be trained like a mechanic.
Can you learn all those skills on your own? Sure! Nothing is stopping you from reading every book you can find on a skill set and applying it yourself. But it is not unreasonable to PAY for training in a skillset.
(After all, you don’t see message boards full of people bitching about how Dr. Wiseman is only teaching his tripple-sutcher technique to people willing to pay him for it.)
And the better the training, the higher the price you have to pay for it. That’s how the world works.
Neil and I knew that people were upset that The Game had exposed a lot of the more common tactics to the public and made them ineffective. That’s why we wanted to limit the number of people who learned the Annihilation Method – to keep the techniques taught in there fresh and effective.
After we sold out on Saturday (and yes, we did sell out, don’t believe all the haters out there), we got slammed by emails from people complaining they couldn’t buy for some reason or another.
If it was all about the money for us, we’d have continued to sell the product over and over and over again, cashing in while the iron was hot and laughing all the way to the bank.
We Did Not Do That.
We sold 375 copies, and that’s it. We will never sell the Annihilation Method again. This is it. Its over and done. We TOLD you guys that, and we stuck to our word. How’s that for credibility?
Neil could have easily made THREE TIMES what he made off the Annihilation Method, but that wasn’t the point. Money is NEVER the point. Money is what comes as a result of your intention. Neil wanted to give something OF VALUE back to the community. He spent 4 years pioneering techniques he gave away for free to the community and what happened?
People took them and cheapened them by selling them as their own (I’m looking at you, RSD). Everyone began using them, and they lost their effectiveness. There was a time you couldn’t step foot on the Sunset Strip here in LA without girls having heard your material 100 times from other guys who DIDN’T KNOW HOW TO USE IT.
We wanted to avoid that with the Annihilation Method. The price point was to limit it to people who had already achieved some measure of success in life (Because Health, Wealth, and Relationships are all connected. Success in one aspect means you can have success in another). It was also to keep it out of the hands of people who would abuse the technology.
Not only that, but look at what you get for $3779 – a MASSIVE training course from the best seducer out there (8 DVDs, 7 CDs, over 1000 pages of text); Free teleseminars where Neil answers your questions; a FREE seminar in November Neil will be putting on out of his own pocket where he will personally work with you on your sticking points.
In my opinion, the course was CHEAP for what you get!
(And keep in mind, knowing Neil, he’s got a few more surprises for the people who bought the course)
Even as we speak, the people in the final 375 must sign CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENTS before they can recieve their course. That’s how commited Neil is to his belief that the Annihilation Method should retain its value.
And you know what? As soon as the course gets out, you’re going to start hearing about what is taught in it, and you’re going to see how people are using it, and it will eventually become a part of the community.
But the difference is: It will be VALUED. And that’s what’s important to us than making billions of dollars.
At the end of the day, when it comes to making money and having credibility, I can sleep well at night. I do not care what other people have to say about me, because you know what? I do not base my self worth on their opinions.
I have moved beyond that. I feel I conduct myself ethically and morally, and I have no qualms about how I do business or how I value my time and knowledge. If you don’t like that, you at least have to respect it.
So for those of you who bitch and moan about my lack of credibility, my "shoddy" marketing, and all the other stuff, I just have this to say to you:
Do not come to my site anymore.
Seriously. If you think I’ve become a joke, why bother with me? Unless you know, deep down, that I’m not a joke, and I’m still worth your time.
So which is it? I’ll leave it to you to decide.
mostbet_ayoa on 
GabrielLew on 
Felixbog on 
discount drugs canada on 
mostbet_aaKt on 
Thunderflab is really sinking to new lows. My comments are preceded by ‘****’:
”But understand one thing… I have a code I live by. A “moral” code. I’ve always preached that in order to be successful – with anything – you need to have standards and you need to stick to them. You must have rules you set for yourself that YOU FOLLOW, and never break – not once. No exceptions.
Be it with women, work, health, what have you… rules will keep you on the path to success, and you break them at your own peril.
Here are my rules:”
**** Notice how these rules don’t say anything about BEING TRUTHFUL.
”I know that the marketing and promotion for that turned a lot of people off. But understand something:
If You Were Turned Off By The Marketing, This Product Was Not For You.”
**** So if people were turned off by the lying of Neil and your lying marketing, it wasn’t for them?
”Look, I’ve been a fan of Neil for years. He was the one guy I admired most in the community, before his book ever hit the shelves, before anyone even really knew of him, he was someone I respected and admired for his skills at seduction (all you need to do is read the archives of my blog to know this).
When I had the chance to work with him on the Annihilation Method seminar – I JUMPED AT IT. Like all of you, I’m a constant student, and to have a chance to learn from THE MASTER (I don’t care what anyone says, he’s #1 in my book) was an opportunity I couldn’t pass up.”
**** If he is so great at teaching why aren’t YOU gettling laid now?
”Things like: Only releasing 375 copies of the Annihilation Method.”
**** Oh PLEASE. One of your partners was bragging in another forum about how you guys made $1.4 MILLION in a few hours. So don’t get on here and act like you’re helping humanity by ONLY releasing 375 copies. It was a smart move to make the course seem scarce and get people to pay faster.
Give us a break. Want me to post proof? It was deleted from the Warrior Forum for some mysterious reason… but I have it here.
”But regardless of all that, we both knew that the Annihilation Method was a KILLER course. Its unlike anything this community had ever seen before, or probably ever will see again.”
**** Actually the reviews I’ve read say it’s almost entirely regurgitated shit not worth a $500 price tage, much less $3000+.
”I showed sneak peaks of it to my friends, people like Steve Piccus, Masterclass, The One, and Zan – each and every one of them was amazed by what they saw.”
**** From a marketing standpoint you mean? LOL
”The five guys Neil coached personally saw radically different results with women within ONE DAY of being at the workshop, and their lives haven’t slowed down since. We have a private message board we post on (Neil, me, and the final five) and I’m constantly amazed by their progress.”
**** What progress have YOU made if it was so damn great? You have this blog, you constantly promote these products… it’s not unreasonable to ask what YOU are doing, is it?
”And the better the training, the higher the price you have to pay for it. That’s how the world works.”
**** Not really. People are already selling this on eBay and it’s starting to hit the file-sharing networks. It’s only fair – Neil used to trade other people’s copyrighted works so why can’t people trade his?
”Neil and I knew that people were upset that The Game had exposed a lot of the more common tactics to the public and made them ineffective. That’s why we wanted to limit the number of people who learned the Annihilation Method – to keep the techniques taught in there fresh and effective.”
**** Will you stop lying? It’s really sickening how you continue to reframe EVERY thing that you and Neil do as some sort of good deed. You wanted to make money. You’ve made your money. You can leave now.
**** Neil LIED in his book. Period. He said he didn’t enter the community until around 2003. Well, he was around back in 2001 – and I’m not guessing, I KNOW THIS.
”After we sold out on Saturday (and yes, we did sell out, don’t believe all the haters out there), we got slammed by emails from people complaining they couldn’t buy for some reason or another.
If it was all about the money for us, we’d have continued to sell the product over and over and over again, cashing in while the iron was hot and laughing all the way to the bank.
We Did Not Do That.”
**** Um, maybe you didn’t sell more because customers could have sued your asses if you sold more than promised in your advertising? Nah…
”We sold 375 copies, and that’s it. We will never sell the Annihilation Method again. This is it. Its over and done. We TOLD you guys that, and we stuck to our word. How’s that for credibility?”
**** Neil’s credibility would be a lot higher if he wouldn’t have lied in ‘The Game’. Why did he lie in ‘The Game’, Thunderflab? Please explain.
”Neil could have easily made THREE TIMES what he made off the Annihilation Method, but that wasn’t the point. Money is NEVER the point. Money is what comes as a result of your intention. Neil wanted to give something OF VALUE back to the community. He spent 4 years pioneering techniques he gave away for free to the community and what happened?”
**** He spent years sucking the community of it’s knowledge, then went and made a fortune by writing a book about it. By the way, did editors really tell him to enter the PU world, or was the book idea something he got AFTER he entered? He lied about when he started so it’s difficult to ascertain what is FACT and what is FICTION.
”People took them and cheapened them by selling them as their own (I’m looking at you, RSD). Everyone began using them, and they lost their effectiveness. There was a time you couldn’t step foot on the Sunset Strip here in LA without girls having heard your material 100 times from other guys who DIDN’T KNOW HOW TO USE IT.”
**** Now THIS is rich. Neil took almost everything in his book FROM OTHER PEOPLE – AND SOLD IT. Now you complain about RSD doing the same thing? You make me sick.
”We wanted to avoid that with the Annihilation Method. The price point was to limit it to people who had already achieved some measure of success in life (Because Health, Wealth, and Relationships are all connected. Success in one aspect means you can have success in another). It was also to keep it out of the hands of people who would abuse the technology.”
**** More bullshit from Thundercat. Well we can’t expect anything else by now I suppose. You just said earlier how desperately you wanted to HELP people – but you would only sell this course to people that were rich (basically). And you just stole a page from the Ross book of marketing (or did David D come up with that for him too?) – charge a higher price and say it’s to prevent people from ABUSING the TECHNOLOGY. Please Thunderslob, we’ve heard it before.
”Even as we speak, the people in the final 375 must sign CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENTS before they can recieve their course. That’s how commited Neil is to his belief that the Annihilation Method should retain its value.”
**** That’s how paranoid you and Neil are about people copying it. But you failed – it’s all over the place right now LOL
”At the end of the day, when it comes to making money and having credibility, I can sleep well at night.”
**** This is your best quote yet. You have ZERO credibility and neither does Neil since he lied in his book and has you on staff as his Paid Liar.
”I have moved beyond that. I feel I conduct myself ethically and morally, and I have no qualms about how I do business or how I value my time and knowledge. If you don’t like that, you at least have to respect it.”
**** No, I have no respect for you at all. I’m curious to know what your definitions for ‘ethically’ and ‘morally’ are, because they have to be different than mine.
”So for those of you who bitch and moan about my lack of credibility, my “shoddy” marketing, and all the other stuff, I just have this to say to you:
Do not come to my site anymore.”
**** No thanks. You still need to be exposed. You’re scum. That’s it.
just for the record, according to our source at paypal (which was your only payment option lol) anal method sold a total of 27 copies of which 19 were cancelled payments/orders so you made a total of a few thousands and not millions.stop lying you might impress some cheap russian village girls who would also do it for $25 but not us.
Do not come to my site anymore.
….
Probably the only thing Thundercat’s said that people took seriously. lol
Is there a review anywhere from anyone who bought the Annihilation Method? I did a couple of searches and found info on it, but no reviews. It’s like it disappeared.
I heard that all it talked about was something about spermicide and garlic powder to annihilate some kind of health issue…
Good advice. Cheers.
https://essaywritingserviceahrefs.com common college essay
You actually revealed this well.
thesis paper for sale order to write an essay buy a college essay
Info nicely considered!.
dissertation writers cheap dissertation help best dissertation writing service review
You suggested this superbly!
high school essay help essay on helping poor people i need help writing my essay
Thanks! I value it.
you can be my teacher i ll do homework help me do my math homework for free have someone do my homework
Incredible plenty of superb advice.
psychology paper writing service custom college paper pay people to write papers
Incredible a good deal of fantastic info!
phd research proposal writing service apa proposal research proposal phd application
You actually revealed this adequately!
write my math paper kindergarten writing paper writing my paper for me
Nicely put. Regards!
public service writing essay service oxford essay writing service
Fantastic postings. Many thanks!
thesis writing thesis on service quality and customer satisfaction pdf create a thesis statement for me
You’ve made your position quite clearly!.
do my essay for money essays for me write my book report for me free
You have made your position extremely effectively!!
persuasive essay writer writing argumentative essay write my essay free online
custom essays cheap help on essays essay revision help online
urgent essay help which is the best essay writing service help me do my essay
academic essay service essay review service college essay editing service
honors college thesis thesis statement about teenage pregnancy what are the components of a thesis statement
cruel angel’s thesis english feminist thesis statement thesis research proposal
example thesis thesis binding luthers 95 thesis
what is a thesis statement definition best thesis statement examples of a thesis
Helpful content. Many thanks!
[url=https://bestpaperwritingservice.com/]buying papers[/url] the best research paper writing service [url=https://bestonlinepaperwritingservices.com/]buying college papers online[/url] what is the best research paper writing service
cialis vs tadalafil tadalafil medication tadalafil once a day
blue chew tadalafil tadalafil headache can i take 2 bluechew tadalafil pills
pharmacy tech certification online canada online pharmacy bloc pharmacy st george
does bluechew tadalafil work https://justtadafilix.com/ sildalis sildenafil+tadalafil 120 mg
over the counter tadalafil https://tadafilax.com/ tadalafil once a day
With thanks. Plenty of knowledge.
hire essay writers someone to write a book for me websites that write your essays for you
Whoa plenty of excellent information.
australian online casino [url=https://bestonlinecasinoreal.us/]online casino free[/url] most popular online casino
tadalafil blood pressure https://crocilismen.com/ how to save money on cialis
best place to buy liquid tadalafil https://hdcillis.com/ cialis vs sildenafil
Truly all kinds of useful tips!
[url=https://essaypromaster.com/]writing my paper[/url] paper writer service [url=https://paperwritingservicecheap.com/]writing papers[/url] paper write
Thanks a lot. Plenty of material!
[url=https://essaytyperhelp.com/]helping others essays[/url] medical school application essay help [url=https://helptowriteanessay.com/]writing essay help[/url] high school essay writing help
You explained it terrifically.
[url=https://domyhomeworkformecheap.com/]coursework info[/url] do my homework for me free [url=https://domycollegehomeworkforme.com/]coursework writer uk[/url] my homework
natural alternative to cialis https://uhdcilise.com/ generic tadalafil online
Fantastic facts, Cheers!
[url=https://service-essay.com/]best custom paper writing service[/url] buying papers for college [url=https://custompaperwritingservices.com/]custom research paper writing services[/url] buy a paper
Very good info, Cheers.
[url=https://dissertationwritingtops.com/]what is a phd[/url] write my dissertation cheap [url=https://helpwritingdissertation.com/]dissertation writing services reviews[/url] bestdissertation
where to buy cialis https://hoscillia.com/ cialis cheap buy
This is nicely expressed! !
[url=https://customthesiswritingservice.com/]customer service thesis[/url] phd thesis database [url=https://writingthesistops.com/]thesis search[/url] psychology thesis
Seriously a lot of valuable advice!
[url=https://theessayswriters.com/]write my essay now[/url] how do i spend my holidays essay [url=https://bestcheapessaywriters.com/]business essay writer[/url] write my essay for me no plagiarism
You definitely made your point!
[url=https://essaywritingservicehelp.com/]top essay writing service[/url] college admissions essay writing service [url=https://essaywritingservicebbc.com/]essay writing company[/url] best paper writing service
Kudos. Lots of info.
[url=https://studentessaywriting.com/]seo article writing service[/url] college paper writing service [url=https://essaywritingserviceahrefs.com/]essay writing service usa[/url] essay writing company
Kudos. Good information.
[url=https://phdthesisdissertation.com/]dissertation def[/url] buy dissertations [url=https://writeadissertation.com/]order a dissertation[/url] dissertation research
With thanks, Helpful stuff!
[url=https://quality-essays.com/]pay someone to do essay[/url] buy essays online [url=https://buyanessayscheaponline.com/]cheap essay papers for sale[/url] cheap essay papers for sale
You revealed it very well.
[url=https://domyhomeworkformecheap.com/]just do my homework[/url] coursework uk [url=https://domycollegehomeworkforme.com/]pay someone to do my homework[/url] pay to do my homework
This is nicely expressed. !
[url=https://dissertationwritingtops.com/]write my dissertation cheap[/url] dissertation writing tips [url=https://helpwritingdissertation.com/]dissertation writing services reviews[/url] cheap dissertation writing services
With thanks, I value it.
[url=https://phdthesisdissertation.com/]phd dissertation writing[/url] define dissertation [url=https://writeadissertation.com/]define dissertation[/url] dissertation data analysis help