Cliff’s List Seminar Report, Part II
August 5, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
Okay, the next part of the report is here! I was mistaken in my last post, it looks like this is going to be a 3-part report, so there’s still one more to go. Part II covers people like Mystery, Bishop, Toecutter, and Juggler. It looks like the last part will deal with David Shade, Zan, David D, and Style (the most powerful of the Jedi). Stay tuned!!!
Saturday, July 16th.
Patty Contenta of sensualitysecrets.com has been on several DYD programs. Contemplate the difference between sensual and sexual. See more than just a woman’s body, view her posture and what it tells me about her confidence and her sensuality. Expand my sensual awareness by listening to unique music and identifying different sounds within; trying unique foods, and so on. This will equip me to create sensual moments! (Side note: if this is interesting to you, I highly recommend the book Think like Leonardo Da Vinci by Gelb to help develop your senses). Recognize that women wear clothes for the way they feel on their body. Different handshake, kino, and dancing techniques were given. With respect to dancing, my energy should be in my hips and I should open them up. Touch her as she invites it, give a little with boldness and then tease by taking it back. Good, sensual dance is the perfect metaphor for how a good seduction should progress. A good male dancer takes charge and leads but at the same time is very attuned to her cues.
Doc of lifeskillsnetwork.ca talked a lot about becoming aware of what I project outwards. What is the first impression I give to others? When we see a guy with a hot woman, we often say “what does she see in him?” Take this question seriously! He had us do an exercise where we talk to a complete stranger about normal, everyday stuff, and then we rate each other from 1-10. This was a real eye opener! If I am an 8, then that is precisely what I am going to attract in women. Ways to improve my rating are:
- Better use of physical space.
- Do I know where I am going in my life?
- Whether I know what I am talking about is often decided before I even open my mouth
- My look: like a leader or follower? Sexual or not? Cl.othes should enhance my physique, be slightly off-center.
- Is my voice like a buddy or like a lover late at night?
Women are looking for confidence, status, warmth and authenticity, and a sense of humour, in that order. All of these things project outward by being socially popular. He gave great tips on quickly building a large social network. He explained that the only physiological difference between fear and excitement is my PERCEPTION of the event, whether positive or negative.
Bishop (Michael Emery) of www.new-alpha-com. WOW. Having never seen him before and being aware of some of the fighting between him and Ross Jeffries on TC’s blog, I was greatly anticipating this speaker. He sure had a lot of good things to say, and I am glad I took at least a few notes because my mind kept racing over the controversies and what I had imagined he would look like, and why Ross Jeffries was not speaking at this seminar, and so forth. It was hard for me to concentrate. I am going to need to see the video to get the full impact of his presentation (and many others too). Frankly, he seemed a bit nervous in his body language. I can imagine that this was an intense experience for him as well. But the content was excellent, to the degree I was able to concentrate.
Shyness can often be mistaken for aloofness. A great way to get over shyness is to take stage theater classes. My voice says so much more than just words; it is a projection of my conviction, my confidence and my beliefs. When I am really good at something, that is power, which means that I need to be conscious of who I might hurt with this power. When I have someone’s trust and confidence and attention, I am responsible for that.
My subconscious mind retains every single thing, like a packrat. I need to really delve into why I do the things I do and the way in which I do them. Often we do things in a manner that we are not even consciously aware of. Some good affirmations to direct the subconscious were given. Anything perceived as negative can be turned into a positive. For example in my case, my own shyness has led me to become a great reader and writer, and to learn many technical aspects of the real estate business that a more outgoing person would not have taken the time to do. Now I can create an outgoing personality to go with this inner knowledge.
Toecutter (Steve Celeste) of www.smoothinteractions.com has an extremely interesting life. Every several years he drops everything he is doing and moves to another country. This means he has to find a new job, new friends, and learn the dynamics of an entirely new social environment. Sometimes this even means learning a new language, as he lived in Argentina and now lives in Montréal. Having lived in several countries myself, I found this extremely interesting, as he gave many insights on how to build a social network from scratch.
To begin with, it’s a mistake to hook up with a girlfriend at the outset. The first thing one needs to do is find a couple of different, cool guy friends. Next, have one or two regular hangout spots and get to know all the staff. Work on bringing that outside social life back home for barbecues and so forth. That way, when a high-quality woman comes along, I’ve already got built in social proof, and an actual interesting life that she can fit right into.
Our inhibitions with women come from being told as a child “don’t talk to strangers”; “don’t be a showoff”; and “kids should be seen and not heard”. So it’s a fear of being visible and being the centre of attention, along with a fear of sexual rejection. The best way to get over the latter is to approach in a non-sexual manner. That way, if a rejection occurs it is not a sexual rejection, just part of a woman’s normal validation game that she plays. Later, if I like the girl, I can transition to a sexual nature.
Internet addiction is a huge problem creating approach anxiety, and it’s understandable that the first approach after getting off the computer is going to be the hardest. So talk to shop attendants and anyone I can talk to as a real human being to break out of the online mindset.
As far as routines go, contemplate the questions that I get asked over and over again, such as where I am from, or what I do for work. These form the perfect material for routines, because the target is highly likely to walk into it, and they comprise elements of my life that I know a lot about. So think about this deeply and come up with a variety of responses, incorporating all the personality-conveying elements that I want!.
He talked about the three simultaneous dances of courtship:
- Body Language/Manipulation of Personal Space
- The Pursuer and the Pursued
- The Dance of Energy.
There is way too much detail here to expound upon, but I found it highly valuable for getting me in the right headspace in my interactions. I strongly recommend research into Toecutter’s thoughts on this if you, like me, find yourself disoriented from time-to-time during an interaction.
Savoy (Nick) works with Mystery (www.mysterymethod.com). He told us to be genuine and have genuine intentions and not lie. I have a lot more power to get what I want than I may think. If I am in a relationship, it’s a bad idea to take these PUA skills and throw them in her face and rub it in. I should be genuine but not skip over the rules as far as wussiness, etc. If I want to attract and hold a 9 or a 10 I need to have built a coherent and convincing id that is both attractive to her reality and congruent with who I am. I should therefore take the Venutian arts on my own terms.
He talked about people who post fake lay reports on mASF or other fakeness really hurt the community. The purpose is that we all contribute to a growing and expanding model of true experience that can help everyone.
If I do have a relationship with a hot woman, I need to keep sharpening my PUA skills (this does not necessarily mean fucking other women!) otherwise I am practically guaranteed to wreck the relationship. Many guys learn this stuff because they want a girlfriend, which is cool, but once they get that girlfriend they stop learning and practicing and later have to go back and start all over again after they get dumped.
If I am not getting what I want from life or from women it is entirely due to limiting beliefs; it is all in my head.
Juggler (www.charismasciences.com) is a quirky, funny guy! He is very humble and admits to making LOTS of mistakes. He believes in a more genuine, direct approach. Mundane conversation, which others refer to as “boring”, is perfectly fine if done with the right tonality and a strong intent. In any pickup, I need to first understand where a woman is at, then make a connection with her, then lead her where I want to go.
People who have known each other for a long time can often glance at each other and completely size up a situation; it is the opposite with strangers. For that reason, at the beginning of an interaction, my gestures and facial expressions need to be somewhat exaggerated.
Use descriptive language that involves all five senses. Questions tighten people up, so statements are better.
Positive presumptions: Presume she is into the things I am into and start talking about these. Assuming I have identified my target demographic, approaching this way has several advantages: I can quickly start talking about the stuff I like; I will have lots to talk about; if she’s into those things she’ll think I am a genius at intuition; I’ll screen out uninteresting women; at a minimum I will demonstrate that I am used to hanging with chicks of that nature and feel as though she’s slightly disappointed me.
Negative presumptions are GREAT for AMOG tactics, i.e.: “How old will you be when your mother stops dressing you?” (Presuming something negative).
Must escalate like this: Move forward each step as a REWARD for her being interesting or doing something I like. I must be just ever-so-slightly intimidating/scary, which is a show of power to her. A short window opens and I MUST show my sexual intentions during that window.
I should be into what I am talking about, but not attached to it (book recommendation: The Power of Now). If I am acting tentative, it’s a good sign that I am in my head and not in the moment.
An approach should be taken like breaking boards in Karate. If you are worried about getting your fingers broken, you will break your fingers! The key is to focus at a point BEYOND the board, and then you will go right through it easily. Instead of focusing on the opener, therefore, focus on where I expect to be AFTER the opener.
A method for overcoming any fear: Anytime I think of something I DON’T want to do, I FORCE MYSELF to go do it. For example, “man, it would sure be scary to approach THAT group”, then go approach!.
Status: The person who controls the group is NOT the one that everyone listens to. It is the one that everyone wants to TALK TO.
The floor was opened to questions. I asked Juggler what advise he had for those with relationships, since he mentioned that he had a girlfriend. He started to answer “Well, I am really not the person to ask, my specialty is…” So I cut him off and said, “Oh, it’s not going to well for you, eh?”. Everyone busted up, including him! He then responded with some good advice “Never threaten the relationship”, as in don’t threaten to walk out every time you don’t get your own way.
Mystery
Like Tyler and Toecutter and a few others, he had TONS of info packed into a short segment. His theme was LMR, and he believes that he has solved LMR for good!
LMR is a horrible, uncontrollable fear built right into the circuitry of most women, and it is my job to ease her through it. Mystery has talked a lot about LMR on mASF. I am not sure if he has yet given the precise cure for it or not in such an explicit way as he did here, so I am not going to reveal the details just yet. If Mystery tells me it’s ok, I will make a separate post on it, giving him all the credit, of course. I took extensive notes and believe I understand it thoroughly and can now explain it very well to others.
I will say that this one segment was worth the entire price of the seminar for me. This guy is a fucking genius. Actually I felt that way to some degree about most of the speakers – this was world-class stuff here.
Now Mystery was dressed in this ridiculous bee outfit; everything was yellow and black, right down to the little padded cover on his wireless microphone. Totally fucking wack! Amazingly though, it did not take away from his presentation one bit; everyone was listening with rapt attention for the entire segment. There are not too many people who could wear such outrageous clothes and at the same time have people take them seriously on an academic discussion like this one.
I asked the question: “Is there anything we can do to speed up the 7-hour average?” Mystery responded that multiple venue changes were key to speeding up comfort, and explained why.
Well, that covers the first two out of three days. The third day was the best out of the three! Get ready for Part Two of my Review, which includes David Shade, the Threesome Panel (Toecutter, David Shade, Steve Piccus), DJ, Sensei, Zan, Style and David DeAngelo! Stay tuned!!!
SDichaelmok on 
Thomasnug on 
MarvinleF on 
Thomasnug on 
Zamki_zhOn on 
where’s part II?, sayin’ aint doin’
oh, bits ‘n pieces culled from mASF.
reruns already?
Hey Senior Lucas,
Thank you kindly for providing the review. Excellent so far.
In Thundercat’s review of DYD Mastery seminar, he covered “The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly”. It was a great read because of it’s broad coverage and his attempt at balance. Any chance you’ll be covering “The Bad” or “The Ugly” too?
I’m just looking for a balanced review as a potential future buyer. What you’ve written is certainly encouraging.
I totally understand if it’s not your thing to want to expose the underbelly of the conference. So maybe someone else who attended can give the harsher news.
The really harsh news is that:
It was at this latest seminar someone said that over 95% of people who discover the community will not get good because of the way they approach the community and what they do with the information. Very few of you will become ACTUAL PUA’s
Ollie had a great post breaking it down for us and is a must read for all newbs, Click here and scroll down:
“The really harsh news is that:
It was at this latest seminar someone said that over 95% of people who discover the community will not get good because of the way they approach the community and what they do with the information. Very few of you will become ACTUAL PUA’s”
That’s not harsh news that GREAT news! It’s the same in every field my man and thats what makes these things so fricken cool. If everyone got good at this then there would be no need for a community like this.
It just means more wimmens for those of us who succeed! Plus it makes me feel good to know that Im doing something MOST of the other people aren’t or Can’t. It’s kinda like having a specialty at something.
One way to ensure you stay in the 95%… Regularily visit and post on ThunderCat’s Seduction lair.
Shit… Fuck I’m outta here.
Nice way to look at it.
So true, Geese. Amen.
Where’s part III? I was enjoying this review….
“Shyness can often be mistaken for aloofness. A great way to get over shyness is to take stage theater classes.”
While I would indeed advocate the idea that folks should take acting classes . . . it would not to get over shyness. Rather, good acting classes can teach you a great deal about expression and voice, voice, voice. I have undergraduate and graduate degrees in theatre and can tell you that most classes do not deal with stage fright or shyness beyond “get your butt on stage and do it” approaches. Most acting classes are designed for folks who are already engaged with the idea of getting on stage. They are geared towards folks who have already built coping strategies for their shyness, stage fright, or fears (a large number of professional actors are actually socially shy). While acting is a worthwhile skill to learn, there are some other things you might consider. One is improvisational comedy classes. This helps you learn to be in the moment and to be sponaneous. No canned speeches, just action-reaction in the moment. This translates into social conversational ability as well as enhanced creativity right away. With traditional acting – which I love – you will indeed learn some useful skills, but with improvisation training you incorporate those skills immediately into your social practice. In my opinion. Of course, one should also approach shyness in other ways . . . don’t assume that you can beat it down by forcing yourself to get past it. Recognize why you are shy and then what the gains are from that shyness and then use any of a number of trance processes or changework patterns to help come to terms with the positive outcome goals in a way that makes the undesirable behavior or trait no longer useful. I have posted on stage fright at Life of Brian as well as at Waking Dreams and some of the transformation techniques crossover.
As promised, here is the link to my seminar notes, on what I spoke about at the Montreal “Cliff’s List Seminar.”
I’ve also included the things I was unable to get to.
AND, I’ve created an audio file to go with it, which is downloadable.
So just go to:
http://www.new-alpha.com/snm.html
You’re welcome!
Bishop
Are we ever going to get a Part III to this review? It’s losing its momentum.
Go to the review section on mASF at fastseduction.com. The full review has been on their web site for almost a month.
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