DYD Creates Wussies?
June 17, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
BG has a post up on his blog where he takes a rather critical look at some of the teachings in the Double Your Dating ebook…
BG writes:
Watch out for the Double Your Dating eBook guys. There’s some advice in
there that’s simply false, incorrect, incomplete or confusing.For instance:
- David DeAngelo says to not touch a girl when you meet her. Act distant.
This is hard to get for wussies!! A 10 knows you want her. Be a man,
show her that you’re not afraid to touch her.- David DeAngelo says
to stay cocky and funny all the time (throughout the first ten dates or
so). What the fuck!? "Never drop that social mask, because she’ll see
the wussy". For AFC’s this might be true, but not being C&F doesn’t
equal being a wussy. Just be relaxed, try to make a connection, create
a comfortable situation where the two of you learn to trust each other.
That’s rapport! Staying on C&F is just lame and can come across as:
insecure, ‘too cool for her’ (over-qualification), or coming across as
a jerk who’s actually not interested in her. C&F can blow you out.- There’s one post where I am in a club.. And I’m looking for some girl,
because I’m leaving and I have to ask for her number. So I walk around,
spot her on the dance floor, but I’m too afraid to go up to her,
because she had already spotted me. I actually thought that going right
up to her would come across as NEEDY and desperate! Haha. And that’s
what I learnt from DYD.. So it actually turned me into a bigger wuss on
some areas.
I think BG is right on with a lot of his observations. If you’re going to err by either sticking to advice too rigidly, or being too relaxed with the advice, err on the side of being too relaxed.
I have come to believe that too many guys try to hide their true intentions from women, and that’s where things get sticky. If you like a girl, don’t try to hide it. If you want to ask for her number, ask for it. Don’t try to be too manipulative. If you do it all with a cool, laid back attitude, it’ll work.
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Oh and Ross, let me pick apart your self-serving bullshit:
“My point: the pattern of DeAngelo/Pagan/Carter or whatever new name he’ll call himself next week”
Big talk from someone that is afraid to go by his real name!
“And most of all, a profoundly deceptive person who continues to deny that he ever knew me or learned a thing of value from me”
Oh boy, you had me slapping my knee on that one! YOU calling someone else DECEPTIVE? Oh Ross, just kill yourself, please. Why did you promote Bishop as a top student and encourage everyone to buy his Journal when you never saw him get more than an email address?
In your post on asf when all the Bishop stuff went down you admitted you never saw more than an email address and said “I always wondered about that”. So Ross, you are either STUPID for promoting a guy that can’t do anything more than get an email address, or you’re DECEITFUL for promoting the guy when you knew damn well he wasn’t the real deal. Which is it?
Oh, and DD just said in a recent newsletter that NLP-based seduction does have some value, so it seems that you are lying again.
“It’s avoidance because he simply knows he cannot answer honestly for what he has done, and any lie he tells will be instantly eviscerated.”
Pot – Kettle – Black.
“He’s stabbed his entire male customer base right in the back to make a buck.”
This from a guy who kisses little KIM THE BIM’s ass at every opportunity and lets women into his seduction seminars and new age fraud seminars for free and worships them in front of his customers.
Ross, why do you call out others when you ignore questions yourself? Let’s hear it WUSS! ANSWER THE QUESTIONS!
1. What happened here:
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/08.13.98/cover/speedseduction1-9832.html
2. What happened with David D’s girlfriend and you?
3. Why did you endorse Bishop as a “top student” and promote his products to your customer base relentlessly when you never witnessed him do anything more with a woman than get an email address?
Well? Come on tough guy, we’re waiting!
This is awesome. I’m gonna write more articles like this.. Very entertaining.
“I saw your freaky new age crap videos, they were good for a laugh. It was in those or some other overpriced, overhyped product of yours that you said you would stop doing SS seminars in a couple years. This was at least 2 or 3 years ago.
You’re an old con man Wuss, the gig is up. Leave before someone FORCES you to leave.”
Good. GOOOOOOOD. Give into your aggressive feelings, boy. I can FEEL the hate, SWELLING IN YOU. Strike me down. I am unarmed. Soon your journey to the Dark Side WILL BE COMPLETE!
“You’re an old con man Wuss, the gig is up. Leave before someone FORCES you to leave.”
Yes. PLEEEESE HELP ME, Annakin. I’m too OLLLLD and WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK to protect myself!
If we can manage to stay on the subject matter, I just want to say I’ve lost all faith in any DYD products. Let’s debate other products on another post (re-read the subject line.)
It’s ridiculously obvious that Deangelo is Christian Carter. I can get over the fact that someone wants to make a buck, but he blatantly betrayed his consumer base.
“If we can manage to stay on the subject matter, I just want to say I’ve lost all faith in any DYD products. Let’s debate other products on another post (re-read the subject line.)
It’s ridiculously obvious that Deangelo is Christian Carter. I can get over the fact that someone wants to make a buck, but he blatantly betrayed his consumer base.”
It’s just incredibly obvious. I can’t believe anyone is even bothering to continue to dispute it and that Thundy is hanging on to the official DYD party lie that a DYD “team member” created the Christian Carter ebook.
Now won’t someone please, PLEASE, P-L-E-A-S-E ask DeAngelo himself when he appears at the Cliff’s list seminar. C’mon….complete your journey to THE DARK SIDE! These flame wars have left me disfigured, but MY RESOLVE IS STRONGER THAN EVER! ORDER AND SECURITY WILL BE BROUGHT TO THE EMPIRE!
Ha ha ha ha!
what a geek! I get a kick just scanning over Ross’s (Paul Ross’s) posts. He geeks out on this drama stuff. Get a real life man.
Who the fuck cares is David D IS Carter? I for one dont. I’m just a consumer.
All I care about is getting the most quality for my money.
The only person who it would matter to is a business competitor.
Someone who could corner the market on both MEN and WOMEN’s dating advice would indeed be a threat.
But of course you knew that Ross.
I guess sweet revenge for David D (Eben) is about beating Ross and becoming more successful at teaching seduction and dating than Ross ever was.
Ross, do you wonder where all that potential money and all the potentials students are going to?
They’re going to your competitors. And repeat business is as well. Too bad your malignant personality had to get in the way of your success. Pride cometh before a fall. Remember that.
But what do I know. I’m just a consumer, client and customer.
I have money to spend and it sure wont be on Ross’s weak ass products.
Remember SenorLukas? The guy who had a great love life, loved DYD, and didn’t have any problems with women?
Let’s take a little journey:
http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?233685,105 (read the sixth paragraph about his job)
Please see recent threads “Franco – LTR” and “Franco – Follow Up” for some
background.
The power struggle continues. She is being a major cock tease. Yesterday the
baby is asleep, she starts fooling around with me, I go down on her and give
her a blazing orgasm. Afterward while she is cooling down and I am kissing
her neck she says she thinks she hears the baby and jumps out of bed. Fine.
A couple hours later, the baby is asleep again and she saying, “quick! Let’s
put the baby in the baby carrier before she wakes up and go to the park with
her!”. So I find myself supplicating and then get angry and say, no, I am not
going to the park, I am going out for drinks with a girlfriend, but I will walk
you to the aquabus. On the way there she is being very tender and touching
me and saying, “for sure later we will have sex, it is just such a beautiful day,
please come with us”, and I am saying, no, that’s ok, call me in an hour or so
and we will meet up. I know she is playing me so I remain calm and stick to
my guns.
Later on, she is back at home, licking on a chocolate bar and saying she
bought a big thick candy bar because later on she is going to have a big thick
one, while looking me up and down. Of course, it never happens. She is back
to the “you cheated on me, plus I just gave birth three months ago, plus blah
blah blah”. This is bullshit, imo, she has had many casual sexual relationships
in the past, has cheated on boyfriends, etc. I understand if she is hurt but she
is definitely trying to use sex and the baby as weapons against me and her
supposed “fear” of being intimate with me is bullshit. Feel free to correct my
perception if you think I am wrong.
Meantime she is telling her sister she is moving to Edmonton with the baby
and talking to me about living with me in Cayman Islands.
Tomorrow I fly to L.A. to see David DeAngelo’s seminars. I work at these
doing microphones for the audience and so do not pay to attend. I have been
attending these since before HB and I knew each other. She says, I tell you
what, cancel your trip, and let’s go see a family counsellor and work this out,
since there is only one week left before we move out of here, etc. So I make a
move on her again and she rejects me, back to the guilt trips, etc. When she
starts a conversation like this she loves to do a Double Bind on me, saying
something very provocative and then “SSHSHHHHHHHH YOU WILL WAKE UP
THE BABY WITH THIS ARGUING!!”.
So this morning I told her I am indeed going to the seminar. I decided to do
this because I’ve got my regular amazon.com order of books & cds coming to
the hotel, and I told David D’s staff to count on me to help out. More importantly, I am not going to reorganize my life for her in the “hopes” of working things out or having sex. That would make me a 100% AFC I believe. So I told HB that
if she wants to move to Cayman with the baby we see a family counsellor
there, otherwise get your stuff packed.
She says that I seem to be making plans for being apart from her. I said, “You
are correct. You have no interest in sleeping with me or living with me, so
why would I not? We need to make a plan for joint custody.” She continuously
responds with “no, no! I want to be with you and you are the love of my life!”.
Such stupid games. My thought is to stick to my guns and live with the
consequences. In any case I have no interest in living with someone who will
play sexual and political games like this. If it were not for the baby I would
not even put up with this. I also think I need to be completely uninterested in
having sex with her, because she is betaising me with her cock teases.
Comments please.
Cheers,
SeГ±orlukas
*****************
Now check this out:
On 6/24/05 9:36:00 AM, Joe R Walker wrote:
>Senorlukas
>
>Keep in mind all I know about
>your relationship is what you
>tell us but I get some between
>the lines messages here that
>may be wrong. In one of your
>last posts you mentioned that
>you have had sex three or four
>times a day. With a young
>child and probably a job this
>just can’t leave much time for
>anything else.
No, she doesn’t have a job other than breastfeeding, I have been supporting
her 100% and do about 30% of the housework as well. The 3-4 times per day
sex was with HER until she was about 5-6 months pregnant.
>
>I get the feel that your ltr
>wants your relationship to
>work but she will not give
>herself to a man who is
>totally selfish and
>unconcerned for her and her
>child’s well being. If we are
>talking about short term
>relationships controlling the
>frame can be as self centered
>as you please but if it is in
>a serious ltr you have to make
>sure that she can feel that
>your frame can lead to her
>happiness as well as yours.
>Are you doing this?
>
Yes. You need to read the other threads on this topic, i.e. “Franco – LTR” and
“Franco – Follow up”.
>I am not talking about
>supplicating to what she says
>but looking to her real
>emotional needs. Sex is one of
>those but certainly not the
>only one. Is she feeling
>trapped?
I doubt it.
>
>Secondly, if she were to leave
>for several days would you be
>happy and capable of caring
>for the baby? If she is breast
>feeding that is an exception,
>lets say she pumped or
>something. If the two of you
>are going to separate and you
>want to keep your fatherhood
>you are going to be doing the
>care giving. Get ready now.
>You should be charge of the
>family. When she says the baby
>is fussing you go take care of
>it. Do not let her treat the
>little tyke as hers alone.
>
No, I always spend time with the baby, change diapers, etc. Today we bought
a breast pump so I can feed the baby as well. Franco advised that I take over
much of the direct care of the baby and that is exactly what I intend to do.
>Third and related subject. I
>think a dose of DYD could be
>great for you. It is a
>reminder that the frame you
>should be setting is fun,
>playful, cocky, not needy
>frame. Are you guys having fun
>anymore? You are the one who
>wants to control the frame,
>make it a fun frame.
>
That’s good advice, thanks.
>This advise may be too late
>since it sound like this is
>about over, but that is my
>take on it.
>
>Walker
Cheers,
SeГ±orlukas
*****************
So we have a guy here who says he does sound for DYD and doesn’t pay to attend their seminars, is divorced, supporting a single mother, helping to raise another man’s kid, and her main job is “breastfeeding.”
Now why’d he give a review of a DYD seminar if he didn’t pay to attend, and why didn’t he disclose this in his review?
http://www.thundercatseductionlair.com/2005/02/dyd_deep_inner_.html
“I am not interested in discussing David D.
As far as the effectiveness of cocky & Funny in meeting/attracting/keeping women, I can offer my own experience which I later learned also echoes quite a few other gentlemen:
“Never drop Cocky/Funny, It’s what got you here”
This is horrible advice.
Furthermore, I’d add that thinking of Cocky/funny as a weapon is the reason why someone fails at generally attracting women to begin with.
It’s not a weapon. It’s not a tool.
Become more playful, have fun, be comfortable in being able to joke around with people, MEN AS WELL AS WOMEN.
The One”
=> I think you made some good points here. But your post is not detailed enough.
C&F is not a technique or a weapon. That s right.
But it has to be part of your character. Its your view at things.
In other words: You have to be able to talk about everything in an entertaining way.
I know guys (mostly newbies) who are constantly thinking which cocky and funny line they can use next while talking to a girl.
This creates a nervous tension and silences.
Thats not the way the game ist played.
You have to create a strong confidence and a good sense of humour and c&f will come naturally.
During a relaxed and NORMAL conversation are always things she says or does which you can be c&f about.
Some topics will “allow” you to use c&f several times in a row. While at others you wont use it at all.
But like i said before: It is/must become part of your character.
Therefore you canВґt drop it. It s who you are! Its the personality the girl finds interesting.
So keep it up!
P.s. As most of you may have noticed english is not my first language. But i hope that you guys understand what i want to say
“It’s ridiculously obvious that Deangelo is Christian Carter. I can get over the fact that someone wants to make a buck, but he blatantly betrayed his consumer base.”
I don’t think it’s ridiculous.
The site is called Catch him and KEEP him.
That’s not easy to do with PUA’s.
Have you read the CHAKH newsletters? It’s all about avoiding “resistant men” and telling them that these men have “issues” and that they need to “grow” into appreciating commitment.
I should quote what he actually writes. Some here are getting the wrong idea.
Yep he actually calls PUAs immature, silly, “men with issues”… Then he sobbingly admits how he disgustingly was one of “those men”.
I mean arghhhh. Atleast RJ does advanced NLP to get students blinded about certain things… To not see thru DeAngelo now… He has just gone waaay to far to back out right now.
“Yep he actually calls PUAs immature, silly, “men with issues”… Then he sobbingly admits how he disgustingly was one of “those men”.”
He wants to be the Don King of seduction, getting paid no matter who wins the fight.
To the extent that DYD works, it only “works” because women find what “those men” do to be attractive. A PUA has “issues” with commitment because of the way women handleone commitment. I have issues with walking alone in bad neighborhoods late at night, as well I should. Is his advice to women to avoid the men that they find attractive? What happened to attraction not being a choice?
How about Mine’99 do an NLP product for women if everyone thinks it’s so cool? We can get the flowers pattern, the dishwashing pattern, the free-ride and free-rent patterns, and for special occasions, the “french maid outfit pattern.”
I agree with some of you, DYD does makes you feel like you have to get a lot of things right before hitting on HB. The cocky comedy program was a waste of my money.
Can you guys suggest something that is good. I not interested in SS. I am intersted in a product that would have a solid process from meet to success, I have no problems meeting women, I have problems closing the deals on moving it to next levels.
The three products I have narrowed down to are
1. Swingcat’s real world seduction.
2. Bishop “Unleashing the phoenix”
3. Gunwitch book.
I have been hearing good/bad things about Bishop from ASF.
Hmm, he might have a bad reputation or integrity, but if he recites great advice in a good way, then it can be a good book.
HAHA, that was a total Mind Line from Michael Hall…….
Why don’t you post this paragraph on ASF and see what kind of response you get.
Dude you’ve stolen material as well so don’t act all high and mighty on us. But I do have to agree with nerd boy here. Having wasted my money on Cocky Comedy (I’m no much funnier than I was after viewing it) seeing DD provide information to women advising them to avoid the people he is training us to be just wreaks of unethical business behavior (RJ is guilty too of this, he is no saint.)
Speaking of unethical business behavior, why haven’t you made your partner Yates publicly apologize to Bishop for calling his book a fake, when it’s actually pure gold, something the bloggers here can atest to, and why haven’t you done a follow-up to the $800 Diamond Walk-Up seminar you did, were people on to you paying so much for a seminar on JUST how to open women, when it should have been a complete workshop?
“Dude you’ve stolen material as well so don’t act all high and mighty on us. But I do have to agree with nerd boy here. Having wasted my money on Cocky Comedy (I’m no much funnier than I was after viewing it) seeing DD provide information to women advising them to avoid the people he is training us to be just wreaks of unethical business behavior (RJ is guilty too of this, he is no saint.)”
I don’t steal material. Ever. I always credit my sources, ALWAYS.
The best example is Bandler. He’s sued virtually EVERYONE in the NLP community, except me. He likes me, continually favorably mentions me, and suggests people take my seminars.
If I were a thief, wouldn’t Bandler, the number 1 sue-happy guy in the NLP universe be coming after me?
I make it a point to always, ALWAYS give credit where it is due and to call people on their bullshit when they FALSELY claim to have contributed what they have not contributed.
“Speaking of unethical business behavior, why haven’t you made your partner Yates publicly apologize to Bishop for calling his book a fake, when it’s actually pure gold, something the bloggers here can atest to, and why haven’t you done a follow-up to the $800 Diamond Walk-Up seminar you did, were people on to you paying so much for a seminar on JUST how to open women, when it should have been a complete workshop?”
Yates is not my employee; he’s my co-equal partner and he’s entitled to his opinion.
And we never promised any follow-up to the Walk Up seminar. It was a test to see if we would enjoy doing it. I find them too labor intensive and just not worth doing, but stay tuned for a Walk-Up Video/DVD seminar.
RJ
“Dude you’ve stolen material as well so don’t act all high and mighty on us. But I do have to agree with nerd boy here. Having wasted my money on Cocky Comedy (I’m no much funnier than I was after viewing it) seeing DD provide information to women advising them to avoid the people he is training us to be just wreaks of unethical business behavior (RJ is guilty too of this, he is no saint.)”
I don’t steal material. Ever. I always credit my sources, ALWAYS.
The best example is Bandler. He’s sued virtually EVERYONE in the NLP community, except me. He likes me, continually favorably mentions me, and suggests people take my seminars.
If I were a thief, wouldn’t Bandler, the number 1 sue-happy guy in the NLP universe be coming after me?
I make it a point to always, ALWAYS give credit where it is due and to call people on their bullshit when they FALSELY claim to have contributed what they have not contributed.
“Speaking of unethical business behavior, why haven’t you made your partner Yates publicly apologize to Bishop for calling his book a fake, when it’s actually pure gold, something the bloggers here can atest to, and why haven’t you done a follow-up to the $800 Diamond Walk-Up seminar you did, were people on to you paying so much for a seminar on JUST how to open women, when it should have been a complete workshop?”
Yates is not my employee; he’s my co-equal partner and he’s entitled to his opinion.
And we never promised any follow-up to the Walk Up seminar. It was a test to see if we would enjoy doing it. I find them too labor intensive and just not worth doing, but stay tuned for a Walk-Up Video/DVD seminar.
RJ
Ross, just because you sometimes give credit to those whose material you have “borrowed” doesn’t make it right, or even ethical.
And besides, that wasn’t even the point.
I think 2 things are becoming very clear to everyone. Number 1, Bishop is the real deal. Number 2, David DeAngelo is actually trying to sabotage his own customers. It’s one thing to teach women how to get men, but it’s another thing to tell women to stay away from your own customers,….
…regardless of anyone’s opinion of DYD….
….how can anyone actually support David D. bad mouthing all of us…..
….when he holds seminars saying he is just like us;….
….he’s talking out of both sides of his mouth….
….and that’s the…..
-Truth
re:
PICKUP = 30 minutes
MIDGAME = 6 hours
ENDGAME = 30 minutes
tingly wrote> With all due respect… BULLSHIT.
mystery replies> this isnt some idealism. this is the average amount of time it took me to go from meet to sex (I thought of each success as I went down the list). I interviewed a dozen other PUAs. they too noticed the pattern. sure we WANT to get it in 3 hours, but based on real world info, it takes on average 7 hours.
Love !Mystery
Hey Mystery,
Why do you screen your workshop atendees? I read on you new website that you like for your attendees to have a good and successful life before they come to your seminar and workshops.
What’s up w/that? I asked Badboy on his forum the same thing, he banned me. I’m hoping you, Mystery would be cooler than that and actually ANSWER MY QUESTION. The people who have real problems and issues are the ones that really need the help.
Reply to “Handsome Man”:
Mystery screens his workshops attendees because the material he teaches is advanced, so it is better if you already have your life in order.
**************************
Mystery wrote::::::::::
re:
PICKUP = 30 minutes
MIDGAME = 6 hours
ENDGAME = 30 minutes
tingly wrote> With all due respect… BULLSHIT.
mystery replies> this isnt some idealism. this is the average amount of time it took me to go from meet to sex (I thought of each success as I went down the list). I interviewed a dozen other PUAs. they too noticed the pattern. sure we WANT to get it in 3 hours, but based on real world info, it takes on average 7 hours.
Love !Mystery
********************************
Mystery-
True enough, time will vary from woman to woman.
Due to circumstances it’s taken me as long as a couple months to get some chicks, and as little as 30 minutes with others.
But ON AVERAGE it has NEVER taken me 7 hours to lay a chick.
This goes back to what I said earlier: You’re either sweating any ONE chick WAY to long, in my opinion…OR you’re doing to WAY to much “extra” and unnecessary stuff to get a chick.
Heck, I’m willing to bet that you could get laid just as much *without* all the routines, magic tricks, etc, if you’d just DO IT. Ya know, interact with a woman on a NORMAL level without fucking it up.
Last point: I personally know TONS of naturals. It helps that most of them are blood related to me and older.
Based on the results that I’ve gotten and the results I’ve *WITNESSED* them have, I have to stand by original position that it just doesn’t take 7 hours to get laid.
(Sounds logical. Sounds good to aid in the sell of bootcamps etc, but that’s only true for YOU and yours.)
In fact, I KNOW it doesn’t.
It may take YOU 7 hours, but in the real world…it just doesn’t take that long, my friend.
I’ve got a 30+ year old cousin who’s getting married this weekend. His second marriage. He’s “retiring” from the game, so to speak. He’s TOTALLY *burned out* and despises the game now. (That should be an indication as to how much pussy he’s had.)
This cat has had a different woman in his bed every to every other night (for months at a time…over the years) for the past 16 years.
Mystery, you’re recognized as the greatest PUA in the world and let me tell you (with the utmost respect and love) that you’re a ROOKIE compared to this cat.
Moral to the story: It’s NEVER taken him 7 hours to lay a chick. EVER…unless he’s busy fucking another chick.
I STILL don’t know how he got so damn great. I’m interviewing him for a final time. Thursday to it all find out. ALL of it.
Best wishes, bro.
Tingly
From HandsomeMan:
“Hey Mystery,
Why do you screen your workshop atendees? I read on you new website that you like for your attendees to have a good and successful life before they come to your seminar and workshops.
What’s up w/that? I asked Badboy on his forum the same thing, he banned me. I’m hoping you, Mystery would be cooler than that and actually ANSWER MY QUESTION. The people who have real problems and issues are the ones that really need the help.”
Well, guys with money are easier to fix, they pay the best, and can result in A-list connections. Why wouldn’t he screen for that?
Why teach AFC losers who think they’re spending a fortune just because they want a product that wealthy men are willing to make expensive by buying it?
Mystery may use his method, but his game is on a different playing field, one where the elite hotties go to where only the alphas hang out (VIP lounges, A-list parties, etc.). Not only that, but he’s an “expert on women” and women love to talk about that stuff, especially when they see a guy who makes a lot of money for doing it. He has alpha status because other men follow him.
It only makes sense that the best use of his time is to teach the rich, wealthy and powerful.
1. David D is about money. Period.
2. Has anyone ever SEEN him in the field?
3. I’ve read his book. 90% of his book is GARBAGE. If it weren’t garbage, there would be no need for “extra products.”
You get WAAAAAY more value from “The Art of Approaching,” GWM, “Without Embarrassment” by Mike Pilinski and “Sexual Rapport Modeling” by Keanu J. Jagger (I believe his name is this.).
Save your money.
Tingly
Hey Johnny-
I read a post by Mystery stating that he helps his students “develop an identity that presupposes that they get laid” anyway.
Trendy threads, flash cash etc.
I oftentimes get the impression that MM is merely a “let the girl know you got money, fame, connections” method.
If that’s that case (and more and more it seems like it is) then I say that the linear model for MM is basically USELESS and that one shouldn’t waste money on a MM workshop.
Why?
Who can’t get laid when you have all that STATUS working for you (or the illusion of it)? All you have to do is learn how convey that you have money, fame etc to a woman, and you’re laid. (i.e. Open a two-set adjacent to the target and prancing around the club with them.)
You can learn how to do that on your OWN if you really wanted to.
It doesn’t take an $800 bootcamp/workshop to do that. I’ve been doing that on accident for YEARS…LOL. I didn’t even need cool threads. Just a wad of cash and the ability to “flash” in a nonchalant type of way.
Guys with money…ALREADY HAVE MONEY. Duh! LOL. So, it’s DOES make them easier to fix. A broke guy can’t flash cash that he doesn’t have…LOL.
This is NOT to bash Mystery, mind you…rather, this is to point out the REALITY of MM: It don’t work for broke guys.
These are my thoughts and opinions.
Later.
Tingly
“I read a post by Mystery stating that he helps his students “develop an identity that presupposes that they get laid” anyway. Trendy threads, flash cash etc. I oftentimes get the impression that MM is merely a “let the girl know you got money, fame, connections” method. If that’s that case (and more and more it seems like it is) then I say that the linear model for MM is basically USELESS and that one shouldn’t waste money on a MM workshop. Why? Who can’t get laid when you have all that STATUS working for you (or the illusion of it)? All you have to do is learn how convey that you have money, fame etc to a woman, and you’re laid. (i.e. Open a two-set adjacent to the target and prancing around the club with them. Guys with money…ALREADY HAVE MONEY. Duh! LOL. So, it’s DOES make them easier to fix. A broke guy can’t flash cash that he doesn’t have…LOL. This is NOT to bash Mystery, mind you…rather, this is to point out the REALITY of MM: It don’t work for broke guys.”
Mystery was getting laid when he was broke, but now that he’s not, he’s seeing a whole new world of women open up to him who weren’t even on his radar when he was hitting the clubs.
What makes Mystery unique is that his entry into the A-list society was paid for by money and status from the very men he was teaching.
I used to think Mystery was the coolest guy ever. Now I realize he’s just out to make money off of rich AFCs rather than poor AFCs. All he pretty much teaches is magic tricks and ways to dress odd. Then he makes up cool names for the things he performs: 3M Model. He uses the word 3M on purpose, the guy’s a hypnotizing machine, 3M is a large and succesful corporation here in the United States. Soon as he says 3M, subconciously we think of the 3M corp and think success.
Mystery’s a great story teller and nothing more. At one time he even exasparted that he’s the “world’s greatest magician”. Of all the guys, I used to think Mystery was the only person that can help anyone. I was wrong.
I hate typing this about him but he’s not the person I thought he was.
I’m not saying that what you guys are saying about Mystery is wrong. However, if you have the money, he will teach you. The line about guys getting their life in order is just marketing hype.
He screens workshop attendees b/c he wants to make sure that the guy isn’t a nut job, who will give him negative reviews. He also does it in ordeer to make you feel like you have been selected for a prestigious workshop that not just anyone can attend.
It’s all an illusion…….
….designed by a master illusionist…..
…..to market his workshop……..
….and if Handsome man acted normal on the phone……..
…….Mystery would let him take the workshop……
…..and that’s the…..
-Truth
REGARDING THE 7-hour model by mystery… I will only quote an online buddy of mine which I respect.
“…and you are going to throw them away every time you spend half an hour talking about 80s rock bands and cubes, when what she really wants to hear is “your place or mine?”
Hey Truth I have spoken to Mystery about a year ago. He laid the info on the Mystery Workshop.
Of course I’d be in. Dude when I’m sober and keeping my mouth shut people think I’m ok. When I’m drunk and rude, people don’t like. When I’m sober and talking, people think I’m arrogant. People like it when I’m quite and act like a helpless beta, I swear.
I didn’t understand what DYD has to offer. I mean, until now i still couldn’t figure it out. going back to it thorugh and through but nontheless, I got a few comments, I turnd into goofy instead of Cocky and funny, well social phobia was destroyed. But the essence to double my date… nah. its worse.
Could not have said it better myself, Marketing Marketing Marketing.
Slander…
Karma….
If you’re going to do this in a seminar, it will only reinforce to us what a joke SS is. If you actually have the balls to microphone someone up like Vince and have us see him in action, in the real world, then your cult will continue to live on for at least another few months. People need to SEE things to believe it, not just hear it from you saying that it somehow works.
Alek-
REGARDING THE 7-hour model by mystery… I will only quote an online buddy of mine which I respect.
“…and you are going to throw them away every time you spend half an hour talking about 80s rock bands and cubes, when what she really wants to hear is “your place or mine?”
**********
You’re a genius. Couldn’t have POSSIBLY summed it up better than that.
Tingly
tingly1, it seems like you’re in an awful hurry to bang the ladies. do you use a stopwatch to time yourself or something? lol. why is it such a bad thing to be able to sit back and enjoy yourself with a woman’s company? if all you want is sex and are hurrying up the “comfort” time, the women are likely to have buyer’s remorse the next day.
BTW if some of the ladies took months, i highly doubt they averaged out to 3 hours. that’s pracically statistically impossible.
tingly1, it seems like you’re in an awful hurry to bang the ladies.
TINGLY: I want pussy NOW. Not a relationship. If I wanted more than just sex, then I’d spend more time. I have better things to do with my time than to spend 7 hours entertaining a chick that it should have taken me 3 hours or less to lay. Don’t know about you.
**
do you use a stopwatch to time yourself or something? lol.
TINGLY: Mystery looks at phone records. I simply look at my alarm clock. The time I started and the time I hang up. You make timing yourself sound like a bad thing.
So, I guess the answer is yes.
**
why is it such a bad thing to be able to sit back and enjoy yourself with a woman’s company?
TINGLY: Who said it was a bad thing? If you want to enjoy a woman’s compay for that long, great. If you just want some ass and then want to bail, great. Everyone has different tastes and goals in seduction. One isn’t better than the other.
Besides, my argument was that it’s NOT NECESSARY to use all of the magic and routines to lay a chick. If you cut all that out, it simply WILL NOT take you 7 hours. Period. Don’t know how much clearer I can make that. If it takes YOU 7 hours more power to you. Not me.
**
if all you want is sex and are hurrying up the “comfort” time, the women are likely to have buyer’s remorse the next day.
TINGLY: Try telling that to all the women I’ve laid who DIDN’T have buyer’s remorse the next day.
Listen, women love sex too. And MANY of them want to fuck RIGHT NOW just as bad as MEN do. Those are the women I have same day lays with. For the women whom I DON’T or CAN’T lay in the same day, I have nearly a 100% day two lay percentage.
Said differently, I’m going to fuck the ones who want to fuck RIGHT NOW…RIGHT NOW, and wait for the ones who want to wait.
There’s virtually NEVER any BR when you play it that way.
**
BTW if some of the ladies took months, i highly doubt they averaged out to 3 hours. that’s pracically statistically impossible.
TINGLY: You’re smart. Good for you…lol…BUT…I was merely making a point/example about it taking different times to lay different ladies. AndI can count the woman whom it took months to lay on less than a hand.
The majority of my experiences (excluding the ones that took months) took place within an average of 3 hours.
And hell, even WITH THOSE WOMEN I knew within the first couple hours of the first convo, that we were going to be fucking the moment we met. PERIOD.
Distance was the ONLY circumstance that pushed the lay to a couple of month…although the deal was sealed in roughly 3 hours.
***************************************
Tingly
Yeah tingly, maybe it was just my impression, but mystery’s goals seemed to a bit different than yours, at least from what i know of his method so far. He was a bit more relationship oriented than many PUA’s (like in DYD Mastery). Though maybe that’s just what he’s encouraging in his students and not in his own lifestyle. Also, he may be going after harder to get girls. There’s a big difference between a hot chick and a playboy playmate.
I’ve personally found that many of the women who are pretty eager to jump into bed right off the bat are not as likely for a second “meating.” They flake out because they are just not ready for more sex, because there was not enough time in the “comfort zone.” AKA buyer’s remorse. Anyone else noticed that? Of course, that could actually work in your FAVOR if you just want to bang em once!
*****
BTW is it just me or does it seem like a lot of guys spend entirely too much time with seduction? I mean, it’s fun and stuff, but once you’re good (which really doesn’t take much), don’t you get kinda sick of it and want to do things more challenging? I’m no PUA, but I’m already starting to feel that way about women. I can only imagine how bored PUA’s must get doing the same techinques and lines over and over again.
Notice how RJ ignored the article about him and redirected the criticism towards DD and his new alter-ego, Christian Carter. Has anyone read the eBook yet? My impression of his newsletters so far has been rather neutral. It’s not particularily impressive advice. Personally, I think there SHOULD be a guide like DYD for women. Too many of them are unplayful and boring. Come on, ladies. If I’m going to spend this much time and energy learning how to make you feel highly attracted, I expect YOU to be just as good at it for my benefit.
I am going to be writing a review soon on David D’s most recent seminar “Power Sexuality”. I found it to be excellent. You really believe that I would pay to fly to attend and pay for accomodations at a seminar I didn’t find genuinely useful and volunteer to help out with my time in order to save a couple hundred dollars?
I am guessing a rude comment like this has to emanate from someone’s extremely dimished sense of self-worth.
Of course it’s simply not true to say that I’ve gone to every seminar of David D’s free of charge, but why let facts get in the way of your little smear campaign?
Explain this then said: “Now why’d he give a review of a DYD seminar if he didn’t pay to attend, and why didn’t he disclose this in his review?”
One of the reasons I hardly post here on Thundercat’s blog anymore is that I’ve found it to be mostly a flame war, and there is a lot of negative energy piled on top of what would otherwise be a useful blog. On Masf I’ve received some good advice, and I would have to say that none of it so far contradicts what I’ve learned from David D.s materials.
Oh and Mr. “Explain This Then”, lol, as is plain to see, some of us have no need to hide behind a veil of anonymity and attack others from behind a keyboard.
Cheers,
SeГ±orlukas
I am going to be writing a review soon on David D’s most recent seminar “Power Sexuality”. I found it to be excellent. You really believe that I would pay to fly to attend and pay for accomodations at a seminar I didn’t find genuinely useful and volunteer to help out with my time in order to save a couple hundred dollars?
I am guessing a rude comment like this has to emanate from someone’s extremely dimished sense of self-worth.
Of course it’s simply not true to say that I’ve gone to every seminar of David D’s free of charge, but why let facts get in the way of your little smear campaign?
Explain this then said: “Now why’d he give a review of a DYD seminar if he didn’t pay to attend, and why didn’t he disclose this in his review?”
One of the reasons I hardly post here on Thundercat’s blog anymore is that I’ve found it to be mostly a flame war, and there is a lot of negative energy piled on top of what would otherwise be a useful blog. On Masf I’ve received some good advice, and I would have to say that none of it so far contradicts what I’ve learned from David D.s materials.
Oh and Mr. “Explain This Then”, lol, as is plain to see, some of us have no need to hide behind a veil of anonymity and attack others from behind a keyboard.
Cheers,
Señorlukas
tingly,
Laying a girl in under 4 hours is what Mystery refers to as “fools mate”. Theres nothing wrong with fools mate, it’s just most of us in the community aren’t pussy hounds and are looking for something more. I was all about putting up numbers last fall but all it got me was 2 colds and 2 cases of strep throat. No fun.
With Mystery Method every 4 to 10 hour (avg 7 hours) sarge is a possible LTR for him. It’s HIS choice.
JB wrote:
Too many of them are unplayful and boring. Come on, ladies. If I’m going to spend this much time and energy learning how to make you feel highly attracted, I expect YOU to be just as good at it for my benefit.
Oh man, you are so right! I’ve actually talked to girls about this exact thing – “We (in the PU community) go out there and learn to create interesting personalities for ourselves, exciting experiences, a sense of romance and sexual tension and, overall, focus on continuous self improvement – this is pretty much for girls. What do you do for US?” All I get is a blank stare and some stupid remark about how they spend hours in front of the mirror trying to look good for us. Ladies, physical beauty is highly important – let’s get that straight – but we expect an intelligent, confident, interesting woman as well. We are.
If you find a woman who see greatness in – whether beauty, intelligence, creativity, whatever – notice the particular part and praise her for it. She will do everything to grow that part of her. Remember guys, women grow by praise and appreciation, not by competition and challenge. And, as long as you say it sincerely and mean it, you can tell a woman “I think your intelligence is really sexy – I like that about you” without giving up any of your power.
DG
I should note that regarding the concept of women growing by praise, doing so has worked in every single relationship I’ve been in. Here’s a few examples:
+ I was with a girl who had a lot of ditzy, dumb girl friends so she would often act like this – around me or around her girlfriends. But I knew better, I could tell she was smart. So, one day while having some banal conversation, I told her that “I find your intelligence to be really sexy”. You wouldn’t believe the shift she made – we went from talking about stupid celebrity drama to psychology and literature within a matter of days.
+ Same girl – she had a nice butt but it was kind of losing form. So I told her I really liked it and told her why. What did she do soon after? She spent 5 hours a week at the gym working on that ass
+ Another girl I was dating was kind of indie/punk rocker – dressed in short jeans and t-shirts all the time. Even though she was still really hot, I like girls who dress really girly-girl. This one particular day she came around she was dressed rather cutesy and girly – all I had to do was tell her I thought she was very sexy when she dressed like that. From then on, she typically always dressed very girly and not so punk rockish. Amazing.
JB- The only difference between a real hot chick and a playboy playmate is that society has given the playmate status. A Playboy playmate has only 1 claim to fame, she posed in a magazine. Think about it. It is so meaningless and doesn’t say anything about her beauty at all. In fact it is kind of pathetic that someone’s identity would be based soley on posing naked for some magazine once. With Playboy’s sales being way down, not even a lot of guys read it anymore and would even know who she is.
Just b/c Mystery gives a woman status and power and then claims that she is hard to get, does’t mean that he is going after harder women than the rest of us. Most of it is to get Validation, by having guys repeat that he goes after the hardest women and gets them, which makes him seem higher status than the rest of us. However, it’s just another illusion.
Senorlukas- It is deceitful to not disclose that you work for DeAngelo. Then, only after you were found out, you blamed all of us, by saying that this blog is full of negativity.
We did NOT force you to try to deceive us, nor did we react wrongly to your deception. Then you mention mASF as being a better place than here, but your review would not have been posted on mASF. There is a policy there that you must disclose any affilitation with the workshop you are reviewing.
You took advantage of the loophole in this blog…….
…and wrote a biased review…..
….then you got called on it…….
…and tried to deflect the blame onto us,…..
….but it isn’t our fault that you lied,…..
…and that we discovered the….
-Truth
There is quite a bit of melodrama floating around here. It’s like a Soap Opera Digest or something but for guys – who like to pick up chicks. Who knew some guys on TC had more estrogen than the females they pick up? It’s like a sorority house around here.
DG
…and that is my
-Opinion
“Senorlukas- It is deceitful to not disclose that you work for DeAngelo. Then, only after you were found out, you blamed all of us, by saying that this blog is full of negativity.”
There you go “Truth”, jumping to conclusions again! LOL.
I did NOT work for DeAngelo at the time of the review that I posted! At the latest seminars this past weekend, I got some of the admission fee off for carrying a mike around. I’ve never had a conversation with DeAngelo and do not get any salary from him.
I am not “blaming” anyone for anything dude, I am just sure how my discussion on mASF is relevant, except for some KJ to try to slam David D, as if my personal problems were in any way relevant to the value of David’s materials. In fact, if you actually read my postings, you’ll see that David’s materials have in fact helped me a great deal.
“There is a policy there that you must disclose any affilitation with the workshop you are reviewing.”
I think that’s a good policy. In fact, I had not even heard of mASF at the time of the Vegas seminars.
I think the fact that TC let’s KJ’s like you post negative innuendo about him and David D. AT ALL says a lot about TC’s character – and yours as well.
Cheers,
SeГ±orlukas