Fidentia Workshop Review
June 7, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
Alek sent in a rather long and detailed workshop review of the new kids on the block — Fidentia. Its probably one of the longest posts ever made, but its still a good read, and pretty favorable for the Fidentia guys. I’m posting it here in full for your reading pleasure.
Ok this is going to be my review on the Fidentia (CROATIA) workshop. It’s written exactly 1 week after the end of the workshop. Mostly it’s going to deal with me giving you a rundown of the actual workshop without revealing things that are exclusive to the workshop. Secondary is noting on the quality of the workshop and instructors. Then are my personal thoughts on how much, and to whom I would recommend this workshop. And finally how good is the post workshop support, i.e. success. This review comes as an extract from a 30 something page handwritten summary and notes I have of the workshop in my journal. So I feel like I am castrating the workshop by trying to shove it into a readable number of pages. So there are unbelievable things I would like to share, but unfortunately I am only going to share the best, most interesting etc…
Ok starting first with the obligatory background (Pre-WS) intro on myself. I was a guy who up until 18 years old was an obese computer geek, who never socialized outside his “circle of lamers” and never was really all that interested in girls. Then at 18 I started for some reason improving myself, dressing better, losing a ton of weight and getting some decent muscle. At this time I also fell for this one girl so I did an online search for a nagging question I had about her and found all these politically correct forums where I got answers that even though they sounded logically correct, they didn’t ring true. So then I discovered the Don Juan boards, they gave me the answer that I could feel was true in my guts (and it worked with that particular girl).
So then I started reading the basic articles on rapport, conversation, getting dates etc… The really simple and to-the-point articles (this is quite important in relation to what I discover on the Fidentia workshop). I would read one article; I would go out there, apply it and get AWESOME results. I would read another, apply it, and double my success. I was meeting girls all around me and I had girls developing crushes on me, I had developed this natural charisma. Girls were approaching me, asking their friends to introduce us… Hell I got my first kiss when a girl grabbed me and started making out with me. Life was good. But THEN all of a sudden it all crushed down.
I got hubris and I got shut down HARD by the circle of lamers i.e. society. They installed so many fucked up beliefs in me, they could have been NLP experts for all I know… At this time I also fell into the trap (because of the initial success)… That “hey more reading = more results”. So I developed this thing where I was buying 4-5 books on self-help a month. I was spending 3-4 hours a day KJ-ing on the “community” forums. I was subscribed to every single newsletter. I was buying seduction products… The whole lot! God I am ashamed of even thinking back to those years. I learned everything there is to learn and never ever even so much as went out and said a Hi to a stranger… Yep… I failed at the DonJuan (Saying Hi Mission) bootcamp 3 times… To summarise, I have spent the last 2 years in the place of a KJ, a seduction materials junkie, and never so much as did a single cold approach or even met girls in social circles.
Then some 2 months ago… I finally broke down and said this is it, I have got to start to build a life. I severely cut down on the computer, reading etc… It improved somewhat… But then I did the ultimate act… I unsubscribed from all newsletters, deleted all materials from the hard drive (including porn), commited to not be able to do anything else until I at least approached a certain number of girls, stopped masturbation cold turkey. And then I had the most success in the month before the WS, I did a lot of meeting girls in social circles, befriending people, and I even did my first EVER semi-cold approach (it was an approach invitation). In other words I finally started on the path you need to walk to ultimately become a successful integral, social person who is good with women. Then due to some circumstances it came out that in that exact month I got an email from shark that it was most advisable for me to take the WS then… I had deposited for it a long time before.
THE WORKSHOP
My first day in Zagreb, the day before the workshop, starts with me informally meeting Ranko Magami a.k.a. Shark. First… my impressions. When I first saw Shark I was like… Ok this is not it… This is… Like, this can’t be Shark. At least he’s probably toning himself down for the WS… I am getting thoughts like… He can’t be THIS average looking and casual… He probably wears better clothes usually. He probably wears his hair or facial hair differently… Naaah, he’s faking this… “He wanted to appear as casual and average looking as possible for the WS” – I’m thinking. Compared to the general public he’s the exact average guy… Compared to the community… He looks less than average, I mean… Most of everyone in the community is much better dressed, groomed and showing off their assets than he is, yes even the Keyboard Jockeys.
There was (in my thoughts) not a single thing about him that would if you were to see him walking down the street indicate he’s a playboy… At least that’s what I thought at that moment with the social conditioning from before the workshop. Today after the workshop I look at things much differently, and can much better recognize who the real deal is. But I’m getting ahead of myself here. We talk some general stuff. I am exhausted and unfortunately have to cut this conversation short to get some sleep for the WS.
My first WS day… So my official instructor is going to be Atilla, a good friend of Ranko and a semi-natural (my judgement)… I meet Ranko, Atilla and my co-student (officially the coolest guy I have met in my life) Olaf. So we start with the debriefing. I really appreciated this part of the WS, because it showed just how personalized and how well fitted it is to the person attending. The debriefing was basically Atilla getting to know our backgrounds, our goals, desires and to set some basic framework and direction for our WS. In this short conversation of ours he understands quite well where we’re coming from.
He disperses a boatload of wisdom, advice, tips and methods… Which unfortunately for me, I do not catch, so I would recommend that when you do the debriefing; definitely have pen & paper handy. I learn at this point his background (why I call him semi-natural)… He was always the guy who approached, who had the guts to try, who had social proof… But he never was good with the follow-up and attracting of women (self-proclaimed at this time wussy)… so he got involved into the community to learn to be better with women. I connected with him well because he too is into self-help, nlp, books etc… Except he went out there and used it (ooops) : )… In any case I would rate this part of the workshop quite highly now, because I could see during the workshop that it was a highly functional part and not just a symbolic act like some people complain with other workshops. He actually made good use of all this in making the workshop quite personalized and fitting to the individual.
He makes good use of the fact that Olaf had done a lot of approaches so he uses the end of the debriefing to send me in with him at a seated 2-set. I officially do my first totally cold approach and it goes just ok, as in neutral. And I get my first glimpse at how Attila does what he does. He explains a single concept in a few sentences and it sticks with you. Unlike some people who make 12 DVD products on just that one simple concept (sigh). So he introduces me in this particular set to 2-3 concepts I should have known and used. Which to me are instant AHAs!!
So we depart until the official start of the workshop. In the meantime until Attila and Olaf appear I decide to approach for directions one girl with keeping in mind the 2 of the 3 concepts that Attila introduced. Even though I approached with an obvious excuse (directions) I get an awesome reaction from the girl. So yeah I decide these 2-3 are a MUST at any approach, and actually come up with a fail proof exercise based on these 2 that anyone can do at any time to at least start approaching. I soon meet Attila and Olaf at our meeting place… And IMMEDIATELLY Attila grabs me by the hand and shows me some girls to approach, while giving me a good excuse (material)… It goes on pretty cool actually from the start (so I get my first great opening), but then it fizzles out as I have nothing more to say… And this is important in how Attila works; he comes up with ingenious exercises and material on the spot. He makes it so you do the approach with no hesitation, you learn what you needed to learn… and it’s no longer a problem… At which point you come back to him, asking for the next step on the sequence as you now have a higher quality problem 
.
Somewhere at this point Olaf is complaining how he doesn’t like places where all the girls just want to dance (was a salsa place haha), and asks Attila for specific advice. He gets it… And then when I tell him I love to dance and get much attention and interest when I do it… On-the-spot he gives me (demonstrates) to me a way to get girls on the dance floor. Just like that, instantly. In fact the explanation he gave me… If DeAngelo got a hold of it, he’d make a whole product out of it called “Meeting women while dancing in bars and clubs”… But I digress.
The point is that he gives you these golden pieces of advice, you go AHA, and never have to worry about that thing ever again At this point we do a venue change and go to a karaoke bar. Here we learn about winging as Attila shares with us in a couple of sentences the most crucial concepts needed for winging… And sends us off into a set… Sorry, again no 5 DVD explanations on “Winging tactics and methods”. I do not do as well on this set so when ejecting Attila explains to me body language stuff in a couple of sentences and from then on I execute it perfectly for every following approach. We do a couple of other seated sets, we do openings flawlessly, we get into fluff talk for 3-4 minutes and then we eject.
Interesting! Before I couldn’t open right, then my problem was not being able to stay after the opener. And now my problem was I didn’t know what to do once I got girls attracted to me… speaking of a high-quality problem!! At this point we make on average some 2 belief-changing realizations after every set and Attila’s debriefing on them (not exaggerating at all!!). He then gives us a cool exercise to do on interest indicators, and then a really awesome exercise for coming up with situational openers on the fly. After some 5-6 approaches we venue change.
So we approach sets and now opening is natural, no problem, fluff talk goes awesome but I keep ejecting saying I ran out of things to say. So Attila (again in a couple of sentences) explains to me how to go into rapport. At this time he also quite well explains the steps of advancing… When to advance and how… So after him doing his unbelievable simplified magic I do my next set, get into awesome rapport with this girl and advance smoothly from one step, to the other, to the other… and we’re doing the basic touching at this point. Then we do an interesting winging technique we learned from Attila and change girls at this point. So with this other one… I go even deeper, I am caressing her hair… she’s really into me… and I get her phone number and set up a date for the next day. Shiiiaat. This is my first ever instant phone number and date set-up. In the debriefing Attila gives me an awesome kiss close/test technique I could have used.
Mid-review notice: The interesting thing to note is how fast progress is made on this workshop. Just 2 hours before I had trouble opening right, and now I am getting ready to kiss close, setting dates, getting numbers… And pre-ws I never ever even opened!! How’s that for progress haha : )
So I do a few more sets, they all go pretty well and then a big shift occurs… I actually do 2 approaches out on my own, no-one told me to. I just do them, spontaneously. Hmmm… interesting. The place closes and the girl I number closed actually passing by grabs me by the ass *wink* “see you tomorrow” hehehehe! I like that : )
Main belief/behaviour changes on this day: 1) I approached every single kind of set imaginable… seated, standing, loud, quiet, lone wolves to 7-sets (and pre-ws I had never approached even a lone wolf). 2) I acquired the belief (which I will always have from now on) that rejections don’t exist. Really! It’s now a hard ingrained belief in me 3) I don’t give a fuck about anything at all…
Day 2
Day is the best day for the theory stuff that is actually practically useful. In the day we learn a boatload of great exercise on how to develop fluff talk, how to tell stories, how to be interesting. How to talk about anything at all (the most boring facts even) and having them leaning into you with excitement. At this point we also get this special sheet with 28 questions, which when answered bring out great captivating stories. When I saw this sheet, I went YEEEAAAH. I felt like kissing the sheet. After you do this session, you can never EVER again have the excuse that you don’t know what to talk about. You will be bombarding girls if you wanted to after this session.
We learned how to make stories, how to make them unbelievably interesting as well as how to fluff talk. At this time he also disperses about a dozen great general tips and advices on everything from sex to grooming to tricks for making conversations interesting at any point. He also shared some Indicators of interest that I was not aware of and that made me slap my fore head, some things you could have never possibly guessed! He also at this time mentioned a bullet-proof vest for when a girl tries to blow you off on the opening (unbelievably rare with what you learn), it’s just a simple line, but I went YEAH after hearing it. Now the thing is… A lot of the stuff he shares and gives is things you have probably already heard a hundred times, but never used. How come? Coz you have heard/read them among a 1000 other non-useful stuff and filler.
Here on this workshop, you only get the BEST of the BEST of the BEST skimmed and filtered out of the filler. You just get those GOLDEN bullets and nothing else. Yes this workshop is primarily about the overall frame, the higher levels, but still these techniques and tricks are quite useful. You’ve had instructor go thru all the possible crap out there, tried it all and came out and given you only the best, the stuff that you do need to know, use. So when he shares something with you, you accept it, integrate it into you, forget it and basically have it work for you from the start and with every single encounter into the future.
An interesting situation was when our formal part ended and we were chilling… This babe comes walking by the café like she’s THE shit. Everybody is looking at her, and her ego as inflated as it is, gets even bigger. So we ask Attila who she is and he tells us that she’s a Croatian TV star… At this point Olaf stands up and approaches her. From the distance we see that she’s smiling, giving interest indicators to Olaf, the whole lot… Then a freaking photo reporter comes running by and starts taking photos of them two!!! Ha-ha, Olaf you’ll be famous man!
The night:
Not a very good night for me state-wise, no sleep and I looked like shit. But the instructor was so good, that I got awesome results and progress regardless. Also Zagreb was empty (everyone off to the seaside)… so not much to sarge with. But regardless day 2 was a day where he removed our last sticking points. Basically we could hold any set for as long as we wanted to… We only ejected when WE lost interest and basically this day cemented in us all the learning, it all became automatic and just simply natural. The main thing, the main shift on this day was that even when I was away from the instructors and just chilling, honest to god no wanting to approach or anything… I found myself just approaching girls out of the blue, for no specific reason or intent. I am getting awesome attraction and everything without ever giving it a thought.
What did you do to me Attila!?!?
From the dozen or so sets I did… I especially well remember my first direct approach. While we are passing the city square, Attila (obviously noticing I am ready for direct) sends me off to a girl at the bus stop. I approach her, turn her around, look her deep into the eyes and go “I like you, what’s your name”… It wasn’t hard for me to be congruent with this since she was a 9… Should have seen the look on her face, she almost stopped breathing, she was so dazzled… Then there was an odd silence where we just gazed each other like 2 lovers, I felt like I was in a movie or something… and actually I didn’t have to do much, she practically ended up trying to seduce me.
Day 3
Ok this is the day when we get to work with the legendary Shark. He is going to be showing us day-game, but since we were so impressed with his thinking, beliefs and view on the world (he impacted the entire community!!!), we decided to drain every single thing we could from him So we do some day game approaching and… Lemme tell you something. It WAS scary at first. I finally got that rush of adrenaline and heart pumping and anxiety that I thought I would get the first day. But nooo, that was easy… I can’t believe I never approached in clubs before. A baboon could do it. But day-game was IT. So we learn everything that there is to know in day-game approaching. How to approach (physical part), how to remove mental blocks, how to handle AMOGs/Boyfriends. And most importantly how to go for instant dates… So lemme summarize how the WS gave results.
First approach – girl looks at me with a face of shock, waves her hand and tells me to get lost-. Fifth approach –girl reacts well to my opening, is smiling and receptive, but I eject after opening for having no clue what to do -10-th approach, I get the girl smiling, laughing at my jokes, giving me compliments and giving a clue that she wants an instant date “we’ll continue shopping now”… All of this achieved with simple 2 sentence briefings from Shark after an approach. One interesting approach was when we were in a bookstore and we see this cute girl leaning against the shelves. She happened to be my type exactly actually.
So Shark sends Olaf, he goes up to her and the last moment… he bails out!! And Shark is like… Go. At this moment I must have changed a few dozen shades of white… I mean Olaf was almost like a role-model to me, and to see him not approach, and then ME approach!!! So I go in there looking like a soldier sent on a kamikaze mission! So I approach her and even though my major BL clues are ok… She reacts confused to my “hi”. So I go ahead with the infamous shark opener “Do you know who you remind me of…?” And she’s like all confused… I’m like “Of some girl I should meet”. I give her my hand and ask her name and she’s like “Eh, no I can’t” [confused face] haha. And this point I’m like I don’t give a fuck about anything so I go “Why the hell not?!”. And she goes “Because you don’t know me and you approached me like you know me.” Hah- she’s a matrix agent! And I’m like yeah whatever… She actually gave me indicators of interest later on?! Anyhow that was the practical part, and it was good.
But the BEST part of day 3 is getting to spend time with Shark and his philosophy. His view of society and his frame are intoxicating. You can NOT be left unchanged after this session with him. Nothing will seem the same anymore. You will acquire new eyes. You will see the entire game and even the world in general in a different way. Just him sharing his philosophy in the middle of the day-game approaches… It propelled me and Olaf into a different frame and way of doing things. Some things just became laughable after that… Also at the theory/philosophy part he shared with us the way of beating our biggest enemy (the inner game part). It was unbelievably simple, yet profound and powerful.
With the understanding we then got (the highest level of viewing everything)… he went into translating this into practice. How this translates into you always knowing what to say and do with a woman… Because you’re aware of the highest levels that even she’s not aware of consciously. He basically took the whole understanding of women that he imparted upon us and put it into one single weapon. This weapon you use on a woman and she’s pretty much yours. After this session you can never have the excuse of not knowing what to talk to women about or do with them. And he simplifies things a lot, which is I am certain the key of his success. He pretty much streamlines the entire inner game into 2 -3 concepts and gives you 2-3 tools / weapons to use. You go out, use them and get results. Even though unfortunately I can not go into details and specifics of all the things he shared (I have 10 pages of notes just on this session)… When he unveiled all this on us… I and Olaf were pretty much crushed mentally. Shark drops on you such paradigm shifting things, that basically your brain is fried. After this session you are basically left knowing everything you will ever need to know, you have the whole picture. Shark gives you the pieces of the jigsaw that change everything!! When Shark left us, we both determined that our heads were spinning. Literally, we were simply in shock. So we took shark’s advice who told us “All will be ok, it’ll all fall in place, just go and sleep until the night”… And right he was…
The night:
When I woke up that night I felt an unbelievable sense of centeredness, of calm and inner piece… Shark was right… It all fell into place. It was time to go out and kick ass now. So…This was the best part of the seminar. This was wow… It’s like I spent the whole night basically feeling like I’ve been a natural all my life. I was approaching the best girls in the club, getting awesome results. Going around, having fun, getting indicators of interest from just about every chick in the club… Day 3’s night is basically the time when you get glimpse of what it feels like to be at your best. It’s all a blur to me now, the experience really… The point is, this is where it all comes together. You see what its like to operate at your level 10. We did everything imaginable, mixed sets, 2 sets, 9-sets, 5 amogs and 1 girl sets (don’t ask lol), 10s and 1s… Everything!! It’s the compelling future to shoot for when you come back home. Attila also gave us a sheet, a structure of the approach. Basically a step-by-step guide of the GAME… He did warn us that he dislikes structures, and this is just a rough guideline. BUT hey a giving structure to a computer geek!!! Damn… I felt like I was holding the holy script in my hand he-he
Comments/Critique on the workshop:
What can I say…? It’s a life changing experience. I mean I was the guy who before the workshop was below zero. And I got experience what it’s like to be operating at my 10. But to summarize it as simply and as clearly as possibly; it’s not just about overcoming approaching techniques, anxiety etc… No in fact this workshop is much more advanced; in fact I’d recommend it better to guys who already approach on a regular basis.
The only problem I could see with this is that a lot of the success that you get on the workshop, you get it from catching the instructor’s feelings and frame. They’re contagious. Yet they don’t teach you how to get into that frame/state on your own… So that’s a bit of a problem I see there. Another thing is I guess that relates to shark. He’s awesome for the philosophy/inner game stuff. But (and this is me guessing), I don’t think he would be such a great instructor at night. Because he’s a natural a lot of his best attributes he has unconsciously, so I don’t think he can teach you everything he does. You will get much more from modelling him. On the other hand Attila is the best possible choice for an instructor as he to some extent can identify with a non-natural (he-he, what a word).
The results Attila gets from you are almost like magic, you have no idea how he does it. But he just does. He’s very unstructured and coming up with just the right exercise, explanation or concept on the spot. By the end of the first night all your sticking points will have been removed. This whole thing is not a biggie either. Just mentioning this if anyone has perhaps the chance of picking whether he works with Attila or Shark at night, I’d pick Attila for night and Shark for day. But since I got that in this workshop, I think I got the perfect workshop!! : ) Another issue is obviously the price… Since I’ve deposited the price has been steadily climbing up… All I can say is that I was unbelievably fortunate in that I got to work with Fidentia while it’s still brand new and in the promotional stage.
So I got a workshop with 2 students at 2 instructors for 600$. If you want my honest opinion, which I am sure you want if you’re reading this review… I would definitely if I knew then what I know now, no matter what, done again this workshop for the price I did it at. BUT… if it were the price of say an RSD bootcamp (1500$) and it had for example 6 students (their capped number)… I don’t think I would do it again. But for now while its still hot and upcoming I would urge every ASF kid to do it. Hell if I was rich, I would probably donate a Fidentia WS to every ASF member or at least a session with Shark.
Another random thing I wanna throw in here is their attitude towards the student. It was sooo personalized that at no time do you feel like a client, you feel like you’re visiting your older cousins for help with your game. In fact money never ever even got mentioned. They never mentioned it! It wasn’t until us (the students) were practically going like “can we please pay!?” that money got involved. … In the sense of personalization, we always at all times felt like they understood exactly what we want and are asking for. The workshop was unbelievably flexible and personalized to the student.
Post workshop thoughts:
I know everyone wants to know the how many, what, how, where – post workshop… So lemme first get the practical part out in the open and then get to the stuff that really matters…
I sarged a girl on the train home and got a date… Wherever I went I got 10 times more IOIs than before. I naturally get into flirty conversations with clerks, attendants, strangers. I can without a problem say hi to anyone I want to. I got 3 new acquaintances in my gym in just one week (had none in 4 years previously)… I am funny, relaxed and engaging with people. Oh and I no longer have any excuses, just laziness ha-ha…
Ok happy? : )
Here’s the deal. On this workshop you learn EVERYTHING you will ever need to know in your entire life to get a handle on this. Really! Everything! In fact when I came back… I would look at these books, videos, seminars on dating… and they all seem so FUNNY and ridiculous… Skimming thru ASF seems like watching kids in kindergarten. Yes now I am left without anything to do… It’s scary… They took away all my excuses and creative avoidance away… I no longer need to learn anything new. I no longer need to ask any more questions… My whole paradigm shifted… It’s now no longer a matter of “how will I”, “will I”, “If I will” or anything like that. It’s now just, “when I”. Seriously, since the workshop I live in a state of total centeredness and trust in the future. It’s now just another integrated part of my life, I no longer have to ever worry, think or ponder about it. It’s just natural. Sure… there’s a lot of work left… You don’t come back and live every day like its day 3 of the WS… You drop a bit to a lower level… Usually somewhere between where you were pre workshop and where you were on day 3. But it’s no longer an issue. It’s something that you will naturally progress in, live a fulfilling life around and just forget about LEARNING. It just becomes a natural part of your life in which you progress at your own pace.
For the logically inclined among you (i.e. all men) it means
[Levels]
Pre-WS: -2 (no kidding, totally asocial guy)
On WS: 9-10 (you name it, I can approach and attract it – in a club)
Post-WS: 3-4 (friendly, social guy who gets flirting and attraction from women easily, but no cold approaches yet)
The common pattern that is apparently seen with this workshop is that guys peak at the workshop, they come back home and drop a few levels (getting to be much above where they were before workshop)… And then eventually over time build themselves back to the Workshop level thank to the post-workshop support. Anyway I feel it in my gut that I can never EVER go back to who I was… It’s simply impossible. They killed that guy literally. I am now at least at the level of the average guy… I know I can get a girlfriend now in the usual ways of acquaintances, social circles without a problem. It’s going to take some time and effort to get to where I want to be ultimately, but I have all the tools, weapons and the exact map now. It’s now just a matter of time. Before the workshop I felt soooo disoriented. I would try one thing, then give up, then try another, then get another product, then do this, then that, then the other newer thing and then!!! Boom I would get depressed. And then frustrated, and then start all over… Now post-Workshop none of that is present… I now have THE map. That’s it… I just need to go and take the journey.
Post-workshop support:
Now when I read a previous review and it said that the private forum in itself is worth the price of the entire workshop, I was thinking “ok, he’s exaggerating”. But lemme tell you, he wasn’t from what I’ve seen so far. I mean, just imagine the fact that it’s a forum filled with people that went thru the exact same experience as you did, before you; the best instructors (in my opinion) on the planet and unlimited support. They go far beyond what their call of duty is from what I can see with the help they’re giving students that they have worked with a looong time ago. And the pattern is just that, they rebuild everyone back to the WS levels and above. I also got a phone call from my instructor Attila and he will be calling me back again. : )
In any case… I got from this workshop exactly what I wanted. I got direction, I got focus, I got the how and now I can make some money on Ebay selling my old products Anyhow I am actually not that pleased with this review because it in no way does it do justice to the workshop, it just simply can not show just how pleased I am with it. But I had to hold back in fear of writing something that looks like a TV shopping testimonial (god I hate those). What you want to know is whether you should take this workshop? Well I think it was pretty clear by my review that I think every single guy who isn’t Rick H should take this workshop! Now : )
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Hi Alek,
Wow… I am stunned. WB stunned… All I can say is that the workshop you described is NOT the WS I took. Not even close.
We got no “Golden Bullets”, no handouts, no paradigm shifting belief system implanted. Whatever dude… I guess you made the right call and attended the European version of Fidentia. I had no idea there would be such a difference.
This, BTW, is not some malicious flame; No decent/sane guy enjoys complaining about a WS that he looked forward to and hoped would change his life for the better. As a matter of fact, I am really biting my tongue here. I think not to do so would be kind of shitty on my part. Needless to say, I feel nowhere NEAR as powerful as they GUARANTEE you will on their websight.
Anyhow, I would NOT recommend the American Fidentia WS. If this review is indeed sincere, it is profoundly inferior to actually being trained by Shark himself. After reading your review, I can’t help but feel disappointed. I know I am not alone here either. Just be careful guys – go to the source if at all possible.
BTW, just for the record, my experience with Fidentia was STILL 100x better then the one with RSD.
Cheers Alek, go get em bro!
I met Seth (Dreamweaver) in field at Saddle Ranch. I can vouch that he is for real (“walks the talk” as they say). His game seems very fun and he had A LOT to say about any topic brought up (AMOGing for example).
I didn’t know who he was at the time, but it turned out he wrote “Confident Rapport”, an article written on this blog. And he basically re-explained the concept to me.
Good times, I can see myself taking a Fidentia workshop when I get some cash… or a loan
Thanks man!
But, are you on the forums? Because no-one there (from the american students) is saying what you are. And if you are I don’t see a reason why you wouldn’t express your thoughts publically to the instructors/ other students. Even though I am overall very pleased I did not hold back on what I did not like. So go ahead and make your thoughts known, I am sure they will appreciate some constructive criticism. So far they seem pretty open. Or atleast PM me, I have the same nick there.
Again I have to say, since I am not sure that it was communicated clearly enough in the review – I took the forum at the exact precise point in my development where it would have the most impact. And I was determined to get as much out of it as possible.
Another thing… I am actually communicating with some of the American students and we’re learning from each other (filling in for each other). But what I could conclude is that the workshops are like 80% the same. The other 20% seems to be flexible (dependant on instructor). Maybe I should have included this in my review… I don’t know in any case, the overall pattern I detect (results, progress) is about the same. And that’s all that matters. Again, please PM me on the forums if you need more info/explanations
It’s a bit surprising review,cause I’ve met both Shark and Atila in real life and I remember them to be bit different.
Shark is a ok guy but looks likes a complete geek, but Atila was a complete disaster- total LSE guy, trying desperately to be like BB and Shark and failing miserably- he had strong strong loser vibe coming from him.
I met BB and Shark and I like them both,but I never would want any kind of workshop with a scared geek like Atila, sorry, but I think your whole review is counterfeit, that Shark or Nightlife wrote that for marketing purposes.
If however, by some odd circumstances, it’s genuine and Atilla has defeated the severe LSE he had in 2004, then congratulations to both you and him.
Dave
FidentiaStudent,
If you are actually a real person who took the workshop, please feel free to email me and express your concerns.
It sounds like you are still not where you want to be and that’s why we have the student forum for support.
If you are not using it to your advantage, you are sort of shooting yourself in the foot.
The One
Regarding Dave Beav:
Unlike certain other workshops, we do NOT fake reviews.
All of our reviews are from real persons whom can be verified. In fact, should the need arise, Thundercat can email or call the person on the phone for verification.
Your comments appear as if you are shilling for a competing workshop.
Here is a tip for you to tell your superiors:
Instead of badmouthing us, perhaps you can figure out ways to improve your workshops, DEDICATE yourself to your students, so that you can receive the same type of feedback.
It will make it a better place for all consumers.
Thanks
The One
Maybe “The One” should be the spokesperson for Fidentia. Torrey’s got too much aggression in face of criticism. Shark doesn’t say much but when he does you better listen.
Teone (The One) has a way to diffuse the person criticizing by actually respecting him. Not only that then actually being humble enough to ask what can be improved instead of attacking the poster. I remember a few people told me that they’ve met Teone and that he’s a cool guy, I believe them.
I’m still confused what workshop should I take i hear good things about mysterey and badboy I still don’t know
I just watched the end of Fatal Attraction. Scary. The psycho Glenn Close character says some things very relevant to the PUA community.
You should select the workshop that best fits with your personality and subscribes to the theory that women should be treated with respect and not “like prostitutes you can just throw in the garbage when you’re done.” (Her words).
Well, Badboy is in Europe, so plan on doing some travelling if you want to do his WS
BB also speaks highly of Mystery.
The Mystery Method is more complex than the BB Direct/Natural method.
Mystery Method is more geared around Indirect openers and using routines to DHV, while BB believes that being direct accomplishes the same thing.
Go with the method that suits your personality.
I like Direct/Natural game along with some C&F as it matches my persona so I am more congruent with it.
Either way, both of these guys are respected in the “community”
Dave Beav: About Attila…
Like I actually said in the reviews, that’s why I like Attila as an instructor. Because he had to learn alot of this stuff. He can identify with a non-natural. Even though he never shared having been as low as you describe him to be. He does admit that he had to learn alot and that he got where he is by working on it. But since he did wing with us in some 4-5 sets, and the hardest ones at that, I can vouch for him being at at an unbeleivably high level.
Well this guy who wrote review really gave lot of true info about Attila, i know the guy more then 1 year irl and still he shocks me with some things he does in meeting and comunicating with people really cool guy,about Shark part i dont know guy that well meet him few times i hope he has changed since he left BB coz some thing he done before were just sad, but definatly he isnt same man he trys to be on line.
Ooooh k1llaBee, dish the dirt on shark!
The One: I’m sorry, but remembering how Atila acts like and remembering the intense loser vibe coming from him, I have trouble believing that the WHOLE review is genuine- no way.
I do believe that the workshop was good however- because it was a workshop with Shark.
And here’s the tip for you: ask Nightlife to stop writing ‘upgraded’ reviews, do not hire losers like Atila, and do workshops with Shark and Shark alone- I’d be interested in such workshop myself.
Dave
phpeters87: I don’t know when you have seen Atila, maybe he improved: when I saw him, he had overhelming LSE communication and no skill at all.
I guess that’s normal though: I know a few other cases in which a community member suddenly becomes a “good” when he is starting to do workshops and “suddenly” tons of people appear to praise his “great” skill, in totally “Unbiased” and “Genuine” reviews- I have seen that happen with many people,a pity that Fidentia joins in line with other people who commit “review upgrades”.
Dave
The American crew is totally ready for any kind of challenge, I can verify that.
Lately they ewen have Robert Torrey’s ex girlfriend which is a playboy bunny helping out students, now thats an achievment:)
On the workshop last week we had a second student:OLAF, a reputable comunity member who already took a few other workshops and knows a lot of guys. He will also post a review.
Alek has done great on the workshop, as you can see but Olaf has also done super, maybe ewen better than Alek! We’ll let Olaf talk about that….
My new 8CD set “Attract and Date” is all in the states and we’ll relase it in a week or two, but preorder will be possible in a day or two. It may blow your mind!
“Another thing… I am actually communicating with some of the American students and we’re learning from each other (filling in for each other). But what I could conclude is that the workshops are like 80% the same. The other 20% seems to be flexible (dependant on instructor). Maybe I should have included this in my review… I don’t know in any case, the overall pattern I detect (results, progress) is about the same. And that’s all that matters.”
Also this makes me happy that our students are helping eachother out, thats why we have our student forum…thats real warrior spirit:)
AttractandDate.com
Shark
What will pricing be on the 8 CD set?
I also took the workshop a while ago, and it did change my life, kinda the way Alek puts it. My review is on the website so you can look at it if you want.
YES the workshop changed my life, but, for real, it’s not a magic pill. YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO CHANGE. You have to be willing to reevaluate the old beliefs that you’ve had, and discard the ones that you now know do not work. I know it can be painful, because to allow yourself to change means to realize that up to this point you have been wrong — up to this point, certain beliefs you thought were helpful have actually been holding you back.
The thing is, once you endure this moderate hurt and start over, you will grow stronger and stronger. The best thing about the workshop is that the changes do not end after the workshop. They just keep coming. All you have to do is open up yourself to the possibility of change, and realize that all the tools you need to change yourself are ALREADY WITHIN YOU. You just have to release them.
My response to Kilabee flame:
“about Shark part i dont know guy that well meet him few times i hope he has changed since he left BB”
Kilabee you are whining like a little girl. I didn’t want to give Kilabee a yes wote for Mystery Lounge:that is his reason for writing lies now on forum. He thought I would give him a yes wote just cause he is from Croatia, yea right:) !
Anyway Kilabee maybe your memroy doesn’t serve you right but ve have met only once in a club and that was this year in Novalja,Pag.
The best sarging place on Adriatic. A beach with 3 big discos KILABEE, El-KabiljoAtila. Markan(Mr Ice)
and Baritelj were there(I think).
If you rember you were taliking about some theory when I saw the MOST BEAUTIFUL girl in Novalja. She was the most beautiful, dazzling, I think I wrote a field report somewhere….I imediatley ran and took her out of her group and isolated her in another club, then I amoged some baldies trying to take her and then we made out for the whole night.
You and El-Kabiljo saw me and you were running around aproaching ewerybody(did you acomplish anything????).
Also Kilabee do you remember when I met you and Baritelj in Tkalčićeva street I was making out with a super hottie, a month ago. These 2 girls are now good friends and they like eachother and go to coffes and shopping,
hehehe maybe they ll make my day.
So please Killabee leave me alone and go on approaching and befriending eweryone with your new routines:) I’ve waisted too much time on you!
shark, i ve heard your cd and agree with some of your points.is there anywhere we can see a photo of yourself? oh and if you have photo s of yourself with girls that would be even better.
thanks
Hi, I posted a review of my Fidentia workshop on mASF a while back (I think in April). I don’t really go to any other forums besides the Fidentia one these days, but I came here when I heard a friend here in Chicago say that there was some bad stuff posted about them on Thundercat’s site.
Well, read my review on ASF. It’s not 100% positive; it’s honest. And let me say that I think the stuff about them posting fake reviews is stupid. Why would they post fake reviews with negative comments? Anyway, I will say this much. I felt there were times when Robert (Nightlife) didn’t really “get” my personal sticking points, or made assumptions about me that were not accurate, and that was a bit problematic. However, in the long run I don’t think it hurt that much. I still got an ENORMOUS benefit from the workshop.
Yes, my game improved from absolute zero to where I (1) KNOW that if I have any kind of social circle opportunity it’s going to be no problem to seduce the girl, and (2) I can at least DO cold approaches now, which before I absolutely could not do cold approaches and F*CKED UP even social circle stuff.
As for the money issue, my experience here in America was much like Alek’s in Europe. I had to KEEP HARPING on Robert for him to take my money. He kept putting off taking my money until the last moment of the workshop. He casually mentioned that I would get a student discount on a Shark CD. I purchased it later off the website without asking for the discount. He spotted that it was me and refunded the discount to my PayPal account without me even asking for it. There’s a lot more I could say on this issue too. They are really good guys, and are clearly concerned to help their students out.
I agree also that “The One” should be the spokesman, LOL! Cameron is just a great guy. I really liked him. But then, I liked all of them.
By the way, I was the guy who said that the post-workshop forum stuff was damn-near worth the price of the workshop. It is a bit of an exaggeration, but only a bit.
Anyway, I won’t ramble anymore, because I need to get back over to the Fidentia forum to post a field report about a date I just went on. But I want to say three things to all the flamers.
(1) I’m sorry to hear that the ONE guy (–out of how many students? ONE guy–) didn’t have such a great experience. But note that he still said Fidentia was 100x better than RSD. It sounds to me like Fidentia, then, was not the problem. Also, since we don’t even know who this guy is, there’s the question as to whether he is taking advantage of the student forum.
(2) Look at their website. Have you seen their money-back gaurantee? It’s ridiculous. If you took a workshop and didn’t like it, get your freakin’ money back. If you are thinking about taking a workshop, but are scared off by negative crap about them posted on the internet, TAKE THE WORKSHOP ANYWAY, and if it’s really as bad as all that — get your money back. They have the gaurantee there for a reason. They believe in their product. If you sincerely don’t think you got your $$’s worth, tell them so, and then ask for your money back. Simple as that.
(3) Last but not least: *I* am a real person. *MY* review is not fake, *MY* comments are not fake, and if anyone wants to talk to *ME* about Fidentia, they can get ahold of me personally.
I don’t have to hide behind an alias.
I am not ashamed that I am taking responsibility and taking charge of my dating life and learning these skills.
I am happy to respond honestly to any and all inquiries about my Fidentia experience or about the RSD workshop I took.
To the extent that I know them, I fully support the instructors, I believe in the Fidentia philosophy, and — warts and all — I totally recommend taking their workshop.
Feel free to contact me:
Beau Gentry Branson (AKA “Omega”)
Chicago, Illinois
bbranson-at-nd.edu
Cell phone: 773-547-5513
Land Line (better reception): 773-373-0729
Lol, omega you’re becoming the posterchild for Fidentia with your post-WS changes haha
Let’s see:
A search for “Beau Gentry Branson” turned up a link that said he was born on November 11, 1975 in Wichita Falls, Texas.
A search for the e-mail address given in his sig turned up THIS on Google:
http://www.ou.edu/ouphil/dept/newsletters/newsletter7.html
“Beau Branson (B.A., 2000; bbranson@nd.edu) is in the graduate program in philosophy at Notre Dame University (Notre Dame, Ind.). He finds the workload heavy, but he became engaged on Valentine’s Day (no date has been fixed for the wedding). Beau presented his paper “Fogelin’s Fix” at the fifth annual Undergraduate Philosophy Conference (at OU, April 2000).”
So who “took charge” of ending the engagement?
beau got a divorce a while ago.
i know cuz i’m on the fidentia student forum.
Beau,
Man, you got some balls to stick your real phone number on here.
LOL
If you change your mind, email Thundercat and have him edit it out.
Thanks for the good words.
Johnny, please consider that the possibility exists that a few people, not too many people, but a few out there in the community actually care about helping people.
I know that you along with a couple of other guys on this blog are cynical. But please entertain the possibility that there are people who actually do want to help.
Thanks
The One
Funny how the louder people talk about wanting to help others, the more money they make for doing so. Usually when you dissect what’s behind the feel-good message, they get defensive and accuse you of being negative as a deflection.
These guys are paying you to be nice to them, and with the amounts they are paying, it’s doubtful they’re that poor, and it’s easier to fix a guy’s game if he’s got money, just like it’s easy to have “game” if you can show chicks all the money you make from teaching the betas who pay for the joyride.
If this is a propaganda board, then I’m in the way, but if you want a real discussion, let’s start with what you make in a year.
I am not sure why you see negative in everything and not an ounce of positive.
I will address your concerns.
Johnny wrote,
Our clients are not rich. Perhaps we’ll have some rich ones some day, but not at the moment.
Even if they were rich, they still would want women to like them for them and not their money.
As for being nice, there are plenty of self-help people (not just in PU,) who’ll take your money and don’t give a damn about you.
There are others who care.
You seem to have an issue with everyone who can offer a service and charges money for it. I don’t understand why.
Go take some Tennis lesson or personal training sessions at your local gym. They’ll charge you 30-75 dollars an hour.
Are you up in arms about those guys as well?
If someone is teaching something of value that he took years himself to learn, why do you have a problem with him making money from it?
Certainly not enough to live on. lol
Hence, I have a 9-5 job!
There are others in the business who do this exculsively, but so long as they provide value and results, can you be upset with them?
You have something you are upset about. Maybe someone took your money a while back and ripped you off.
But please don’t group everyone together based on a previous bad experience.
Thanks
The One
Beau Branson wrote:
(3) Last but not least: *I* am a real person. *MY* review is not fake, *MY* comments are not fake, and if anyone wants to talk to *ME* about Fidentia, they can get ahold of me personally.
He is a real person. I bought Beau a Jack & Coke and a bowl of chili while I ate French toast at 3AM. He couldn’t finish the chili so I did. That’s just the kinda guy I am.
Unlike my man, Beau, though…I’m not gonna give out my phone number. If you have an exceptional hot mom, have her contact me
dK
The One
Johnny is most likly that ray guy, that thundy has to keep banning.
the last
I guess you stayed the same, so sad…
Hope you learn next time..
Quote—————————————
My response to Kilabee flame:
“about Shark part i dont know guy that well meet him few times i hope he has changed since he left BB”
Kilabee you are whining like a little girl. I didn’t want to give Kilabee a yes wote for Mystery Lounge:that is his reason for writing lies now on forum. He thought I would give him a yes wote just cause he is from Croatia, yea right:) !
Anyway Kilabee maybe your memroy doesn’t serve you right but ve have met only once in a club and that was this year in Novalja,Pag.
The best sarging place on Adriatic. A beach with 3 big discos KILABEE, El-KabiljoAtila. Markan(Mr Ice)
and Baritelj were there(I think).
If you rember you were taliking about some theory when I saw the MOST BEAUTIFUL girl in Novalja. She was the most beautiful, dazzling, I think I wrote a field report somewhere….I imediatley ran and took her out of her group and isolated her in another club, then I amoged some baldies trying to take her and then we made out for the whole night.
You and El-Kabiljo saw me and you were running around aproaching ewerybody(did you acomplish anything????).
Also Kilabee do you remember when I met you and Baritelj in Tkalčićeva street I was making out with a super hottie, a month ago. These 2 girls are now good friends and they like eachother and go to coffes and shopping,
hehehe maybe they ll make my day.
So please Killabee leave me alone and go on approaching and befriending eweryone with your new routines:) I’ve waisted too much time on you!
What an excuser this k1llaBee guy is.
I think that is sad.
Maybe in the future dude… But at their current price… You’re asking how much he makes a year hahahahahaahahah. Seriosly though I was quite cynical myself… I hate admitting it but I spent the first day (and the day before day 1) of the workshop in a neverending search on trying to find something wrong… Looking for the catch… Trying to catch the ripoff, looking around to get the lie… For every one thing I even dared imagine might be wrong, it proved itself 100% the opposite. So I ended up thinking the world of the guys on the workshop.
Then me, being the cynical person I am… When I got back home I started on their forum and post-workshop support… And I again started looking for faults… “where’s the catch?”. I started looking for a fault in the answers and support. I actually listened to the advice and tried to make it not work and after 3-4 of these I ended up proving myself wrong, time after time… Like they tell me something (again in a few sentences just like the WS), I go like “it can’t be THAT simple/easy” and go out there and 4-5 days of banging my head against the wall finding out they were right and had my best interest in mind.
Hey Cameron… I just a got cool idea. Since Fidentia is alot about simplyfing and streamlining… I got a mission statement for you guys
“To make it simple at the core level by stripping away all the layers of bullshit.”
Sound familiar? Lol, put it somewhere under the fidentia name lol
Where does the word ‘fidentia’ original from?
Oops thats “originate” not “original”
Latin Dictionary
Do a search on Fidentia =
fidentia
fidelis : faithful, loyal, true
fidelitas : fidelity, loyalty, homage.
fidens : confident, without fear, courageous.
fides : promise, assurance, word of honor, engagement.
fides : trust, confidence, reliance, belief, faith.
fiducia : confidence, trust, assurance.
it fit how we want our company to be.
From “The One”:
“I am not sure why you see negative in everything and not an ounce of positive.
I will address your concerns.”
I said that when you don’t play along with the gurus, they accuse you of being negative.
_________________________
“Johnny wrote, These guys are paying you to be nice to them, and with the amounts they are paying, it’s doubtful they’re that poor, and it’s easier to fix a guy’s game if he’s got money,
Our clients are not rich. Perhaps we’ll have some rich ones some day, but not at the moment.”
You got this from their financial disclosures? The cost of a workshop, hotel, and travel alone is more than many men have to dispose of at any time. If you think all guys have that type of money, maybe you’re selecting out the ones who don’t have enough to pay the freight.
__________________
“Even if they were rich, they still would want women to like them for them and not their money.”
More feel-good crap. Money is a sure thing with women. Give a guy X amount of dollars and he can accumulate any amount of social proof. That’s not game, that’s a guy using money to get laid. Since the gurus are teaching how to get laid, their finances are a part of that and fair game for discussion, yet despite all their talk about open discussions and sharing, they deflect, insult, and clam up when stuff like this is brought up.
Hotties *want* guys not to be into them for their looks, but that feel-good crap doesn’t change what motivates the men. No man wants to admit that *his* woman is like that, just as he wants to think that hottie who fucked him in the club hasn’t fucked twenty other guys in the last year. Doesn’t change the reality.
________________
“As for being nice, there are plenty of self-help people (not just in PU,) who’ll take your money and don’t give a damn about you. There are others who care.”
Results trump intentions.
__________________
“You seem to have an issue with everyone who can offer a service and charges money for it. I don’t understand why.”
You seem to want acceptance from the public on a blog that is commercially sponsored, and which has banned people from posting, so how do you even know you’re getting the whole story?
Silly child, you want men to spend a considerable amount of money on you, and to entrust one of the most important parts of their lives to YOUR advice, then you insult someone who raises legitimate questions. That makes you a whining little beta throwing a tantrum when he doesn’t get his way and his money.
You take AFC money and fund a lifestyle where you can present yourself to women as influential over other men, and doing well financially, but who’s paying for it? The AFCs you say need to learn from you. Any women in your life will of course also instinctively make sure to help your rep, since that makes them look better as well (and gives them access to the AFC gravy train).
Your statements are benign, but the presumptions behind them aren’t. You set an alpha frame for yourself and try to betaise guys who don’t let you impose it on them. Try to do that with some woman you want to settle down with when another guy asks her why you won’t fuck 50 more women in the future if you fucked 50 in the past (and bragged about it), and she won’t be impressed.
Of course if people are going to be silenced from posting this isn’t really a discussion but more of a marketing vehicle. The public won’t hear the voices of anyone not allowed access to the airwaves, and there goes the notion that this is a truly open debate. It’s more like you want people to agree with you that they should spend all that money on your wisdom.
Say, who are you fucking? You’re a great pickup guru, why not prove it? And what’s with this shit about tax deductions for taking seminars?
__________
“Go take some Tennis lesson or personal training sessions at your local gym. They’ll charge you 30-75 dollars an hour.
Are you up in arms about those guys as well?”
Most of those guys have verified rankings from the USTA and you can play against them directly.
Even if you could produce the women you claim to be fucking, how much of a role does your AFC-sponsored lifestyle play in getting these women?
“If someone is teaching something of value that he took years himself to learn, why do you have a problem with him making money from it?”
To answer your question one must accept the premise and implied argument that your offerings rise to that level of value.
“If this is a propaganda board, then I’m in the way, but if you want a real discussion, let’s start with what you make in a year.
Certainly not enough to live on.”
How much does it bring in a year, for how many seminars or workshops? Product sales? Is the business more successful when it’s being marketed than when the owners are asked about its income so as to measure the effect of their finances on their ability to get laid?
__________________
“lol Hence, I have a 9-5 job!”\”
LOL doing what, at what pay?
__________________
“There are others in the business who do this exculsively, but so long as they provide value and results, can you be upset with them?”
Proof of value as evidenced by the price?
______________________
“You have something you are upset about.”
You presume a lot.
“Maybe someone took your money a while back and ripped you off. But please don’t group everyone together based on a previous bad experience.”
Yep, more whining-beta crap. You’re alpha when you get your way, I see, but otherwise definitely not. Maybe you just don’t like how quickly you’d unravel if you had to have a truly open debate about all this stuff, and become an abusive shithead when someone says something you don’t like.
Of course, if you’re on a board that bans people, how is anyone going to know what might have been said if some critics (or fans) weren’t being silenced?
I’m sure the women you meet will love the many thousands of dollars you get from your male followers (who are so admittedly clueless that they can’t really see the long-term consequences of good or bad advice in the short window after a workshop), and even if you don’t spend it on them directly, it gives you access to their hangouts, and the trappings of your lifestyle give them access to you (costs you nothing to stay at your home, for example, but it’d still be valuable to them).
Don’t inject yourself into discussions if you don’t want them to take directions you can’t control.
Insult? Whining?
I think I have been rather polite and have treated you like a man.
Your questions seem to keep going in circles about how all results come from spending a ton of money on women. I am not sure where this belief comes from.
It does not like sound like you have been to ANY workshops, be it ours, or one of the the other guys’. I also can see that I’ll never win an argument with you because you want to believe that we are all a bunch of greedy assholes. Nothing can ever change that.
I am sorry you feel that way.
Take it easy
The One
From TheOne:
“Insult? Whining?”
INSULT in that you assume that someone questioning you must have a problem or issues and couldn’t possibly be raising legitimate points is insulting. WHINING in that you WHINE about this instead of just answering the questions (assuming the discussion isn’t cut off when it’s something you don’t want to answer).
_________________
“I think I have been rather polite and have treated you like a man.”
A man would have addressed my points rather than attacking me. That you chose to attack and deflect instead indicates you’d rather do that than discuss.
__________________
“Your questions seem to keep going in circles about how all results come from spending a ton of money on women.”
The only reason the questions are circular is your refusal to answer them. One more time: how much do you earn a year from your regular job, and how much do you earn a year from the AFCs you teach to get women?
VERY simple questions for someone WANTING to answer them. Staying on point requires being “circular” if one is being tangential.
As for results, they can come from money, looks, or many other areas. How well would Mystery do with women if he were 5’5″ and not 6’5″?
____________
“I am not sure where this belief comes from.”
So we have a man claiming to be a seduction guru wondering why most people *know* (not *believe*) that money is instant social proof. Gotcha. If money is so unimportant, why so secretive about the income? Afraid some AFCs might rethink a few things?
____________________
“It does not like sound like you have been to ANY workshops, be it ours, or one of the the other guys’.”
Ah yes, one has to shell out hundreds or thousands of dollars to be able to talk about the experience of it. That’s a pretty damn good deal for the gurus.
Maybe I should put something out with a $500 price tag and dismiss all criticisms from those who haven’t used it, saying they have to use it first.
______________
“I also can see that I’ll never win an argument with you because”
I won’t let you dodge the questions I ask or deflect. Better to quit while you’re ahead, that’s true, as you’re mentally overmatched here.
The only way to win an argument against me would be to have Thundercat DELETE my words, in which case people would forget soon enough that they were ever spoken (to his credit, Thundercat doesn’t seem to do this, at least not where I’ve seen it).
In the absence of that, you’ll just have to deal with these nagging questions you repeatedly don’t want to answer while on the way to convincing everyone that you’re THE MAN with women. Say, where are these women anyway?
Most women I know scream about their men from the rooftops to anyone who will listen. Surely yours wouldn’t mind doing the same.
________________________
“you want to believe that we are all a bunch of greedy assholes. Nothing can ever change that.”
Where did I call you a greedy asshole? I wasn’t even talking about your workshop in particular.
My points are relatively simple: gurus make big money, and money makes it easier for them to get laid. Gurus who charge a lot of money get a client base that has a lot of money to spend, and whose game is easier to fix. Gurus also have a DHV with women because the women find out other men are following them and paying them. Does this transfer to your students? Then there are the looks and lifestyle questions.
______________
“I am sorry you feel that way.”
Ah yes, the corporate “weasel apology,” designed to sound like an apology with “I’m sorry” but which really isn’t one.
I’m sorry you aren’t man enough to answer simple questions which are highly relevant to your game. You said I never took a workshop, and you’re right, I never had to. I had competent wings to teach me without costing me anything, and over a much longer period of time than three days.
I guess men who can make FRIENDS wouldn’t have a need to pay a “cool guy” to be theirs for the weekend. Kind of like those sports fantasy camps where those who can afford the ticket get to live the fantsay of being a PUA for a weekend, and then return to their normal lives.
When you talk about being in business and trying to help people, that’s all well and good, but the fact remains that you’ve crossed the line into charging money and if you give away everything, there’s nothing to sell, and if you sell everything, there’s nothing to give. This compromises any altruism one can have. Then there is the implication that somehow questioning the business’s relative value to other businesses, or the product’s value relative to what’s out there free, is verbotten. What you’re doing there is subtly putting yourself “in set” in a way that puts a burden on your competitors to break the barrier themselves.
Helping people when one is getting paid hundreds of dollars for a few days is what these people are paying for. Still, this help and the effects of it are measured subjectively and not objectively. One could almost write a treatise on how “commercial seduction” works, with customers reacting just as predictably as hotties do to sexual advances. Are we to believe that gurus don’t game their customers or learn how that game works?
Finally, there’s the issue of no matter how good your intentions are, you’re biting off a lot to chew when you offer a solution of this magnitude to men with women, women who can change the rules of the game at any time to foil men who try to strategize it.
Calling yourself an alpha male to the point of charging what you charge is like declaring that you can beat any heavyweight boxer in the world. Good luck proving that.
With all due respect Jonny, that didnt make much sense.
maybe u should go type long letters to all the millions of instructors and coaches out there in the world.
We charge what we charge because that’s the value we put on our time. No one’s trying to make u unhappy.
Johnny I think is Shinji.
Shinji is part of the SS camp/cult.
Those guys attack each business on here like RSD, Fidentia, New-Alpha, etc….. in the hopes it will score points with their master and hoping it will slowly drip away business, like a leaky faucet from them.
Ninja
No, its Ray Gordon I recognise his writing. He always talking about money and sponsers and totally weird stuff.
Someone needs to inform Thundy.
Mice keep getting in the house
Is there an exception to the rule that bashing others is a sign of being a beta who is insecure about his own stuff? Is the only way for some to debate to have control over who get to join?
Johnny or Ray
Theres a difference between debate and disruption. I’ve read your posts here at this site. Remember the one about is hypnotic seduction rape?
It was plain that you don’t want to debate, you want to destroy.Why?
If you aren’t him, then I’m sorry, but I bet my moms ass on it you are.
We need a mouse trap
Hey Johnny, et al.
I don’t really have time to read all of this stuff, but I saw a couple responses to me. Regarding my marriage. I did get engaged on Valentine’s Day 2001, and was married January 8, 2002. In the Summer of 2004 I told my wife that we needed to go to marriage therapy “or else.” We went to about 3 sessions and realized we really should never have gotten married in the first place. While I did genuinely care for her, and tried to be the best husband I could be, and do all of what I thought were the “right” things to do, I saw that it was only making things worse. If I knew then what I know now about attraction, being a man, etc., it may have saved my marriage. However, I’m glad that I made the choice that I did, because I realized that ultimately I had “settled” for a girl that I knew would take me, but who I was not really compatible with, rather than going after a girl with all of the qualities I really wanted. I was 28 at the time we filed for divorce. I realized that there are still beautiful, intelligent, kind, caring, loving women that are still single at my age, and that it was not too late for me to start over with someone else. But I also realized that up until now I have simply been taking whatever comes to me, rather than *choosing* a girl who has all of the qualities that I truly want. That’s what led me to the community.
I’m not sure how any of that is relevant to the fact that Fidentia runs a great workshop, has excellent follow-up support in their student forum, is run by wonderful guys who clearly care about helping their students to change for the better, currently offer their workshop at a *very* low rate compared to other workshops, and are obviously not just trying to make money off of people.
Anyway, bottom line is, if any of you guys want to know more about Fidentia, or for whatever bizarre reason want to know more details about my personal life(?!), including my marriage, how many girls I’ve slept with, the fact that I was circumcised twice because my foreskin grew back, what my hair looks like now, stories about UGs I met off of personal ads, height, weight, penis size, etc., you can call or email me. If you don’t believe I really exist, you can call or email me. That’s why I put my contact info up there.
So far, only one guy has contacted me. He emailed me from Iraq. I emailed him back. He seemed like a nice guy. So WTF? I have the balls to put my real name and contact info up on here so people can talk to me. Do you flamers even have the balls to say your real first name?
HAVE SOME BALLS — The Fidentia Philosophy.
there should be some kind of user with password system. this way ALL THE LAMERS can post FAKE posts.
Hahah I called Beau Branson the day I was on a rampage. He was busy that day and told me to call him the next day (last Friday).
I was going to call him Friday but I had lots of regret from all the shit I had done Thursday. Fuck man your foreskin grew back hahahahaha and then you circumsised it. That’s funny shit.
Let’s stop arguing and agree that Fidentia is best workshop on planet.
Badboy says so himself. He took the WS with Nightlife and even wrote a review.
Nightlife taught Shark everything he knows.
I thought you said Nightlife was a natural?