Louis & Copeland vs… David Deangelo???
May 2, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under Drama & Rumors
Now this is a wierd development. In their latest newsletter, titled "Now They’re Threatening Us," authors of the book How To Succeed With Women Ron Louis and David Copeland reveal that there’s some drama going on between them and another "well known" guru.
Hi!
We want to make a confession to you:
Our competitors are not happy about our seminar. And some of them are getting personal.
One competitor actually wrote to us and threatened us after our recent newsletter exposed the many downsides of trying to be "Cocky and Funny" and manipulate women.
He told us be had better "watch out," and to not blow the whistle on the scams that many newly-minted "dating gurus" use to take money out of shy men’s pockets.
But that’s what makes us different. We don’t teach elaborate techniques that only work if you have natural charisma or could be a talented hypnotist.
We don’t expect you to spend every waking moment of your life studying "techniques" and "patterns" so you can finally get what you want with women.
Here’s what we do — We teach "dirt simple" success with women — the kind of success that works for every guy.
It’s a big claim, but we can back it up. We’ve been coaching men in dating for 10 years. That means we’ve been helping men since long before the internet made it easy for any guy to call himself a dating guru, and to take men’s money.
Owch. Since David DeAngelo is the only guy who lays legitimate claim to the "cocky funny" moniker, I’m assuming that it was him who contacted Ron & Dave. I’m not really sure he told them not to "blow the whistle on the scams that many newly-minted "dating gurus" use to take money out of shy men’s pockets." But it wouldn’t surprize me if he did contact them about bashing his techniques in their previous newsletter.
I’ll see if I can get more on this soon.
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WHY is Mystery SO MUCH BETTER then RJ? What i mean is Mystery gets the super hot babes, Penthouse playmates, supermodels etc. whereas Ross does not. If he did he’d surely tell us! Ross makes it a big deal when he gets a phone number of some Asian when he drove his new Saab to a gas station Versus Mystery actually getting LAID, has 2 HOT GF’s.
Of course, RJ can say he does not want Supermodels or 9-10 HB’s. He might say he only wants older international females and not Mystery’s Beautiful Blondes. He might say he does not want to work the bars cause you need to hear the languaging BUT Mystery gets 9-10HB’s in coffee shops and all over as well. Could it be Mystery is so mich better looing but according to Ross brilliant marketing looks don’t matter right?
So why would ANYONE buy Ross’s stuff or go to his seminars when Ross himself does not get the Hottest of the Hot; he might not even getting laid much or at all. But perhaps Ross will say he moved beyond fucking. He transcended Sex with beautfiul women. Could be…but I doubt it!!!
So what’s the REAL truth?
Better as measured by what?
Who is the better teacher? Which method works best for the broadest cross section of guys to get them what THEY want?
For answers, go to:
http://www.seduction.com
Click on Video Proof
and…
Click on Success Stories
Now, all props to Mystery. But let’s see how he does when he’s 46 years old.
The real issue is: pound for pound, which system works best for the average guy out there.
RJ
One commment, one question.
First, I just receieved David D’s cocky comedy program and I’ve got to tell you, 3 cds in and its a complete waste of time. I will be returning it ASAP.
I do have his advanced cd series and I got alot of value from that.
Second, where can I find information on mystery?
http://www.mysterymethod.com
He gets the hotest of the hot even blowing RJ (who’s a great human being) out of the water even when RJ was in his 30′s. Mystery walks the walk and GETS the REAL HOTTIES!!! This is crucial, for if the teacher cannot get the hottest of the hot something ain’t right. For why would the teacher NOT be able to do what he claims he can get others to do? In sports I can see a great coach who happens to be physically unable but can coach others BUT in the pick up world this does not apply!!! RJ NEVER got, gets or will get HB9-10
After visiting his website, am I correct that he is only offering live seminars and does not currently have any books or audios available?
I know his seminars are only avaiable to students and are invite only, does anyone know what the typical cost is?
Where did all the fellated wussies come from! Stop tossing your sausage for a minute and catch an obvious clue. RJ, DD, Mystery, etc. all have great ideas and have each greatly contributed to the PUA body of knowledge.
I could care less about who bashes who, who stole what, who is out for money, who is a traitor, who gets laid and who doesn’t, etc.
What matters is how the material helps me–and how it helps you. Period.
Listen up nimrods. These guys aren’t choir boys. They’re teaching you to separate women from their morality and their panties. Despite any rationalization one might offer, this isn’t particularly ethical behavior. What labotomized chicken choker would ever assume any of these gurus to be even the least bit ethical?
Grab some vaseline losers. I have incredible respect for both DD and RJ. This respect does not derive in the least from their personal integrity. It is based completely on the strength of their ideas and the helpfulness of those ideas in my quest to carnally know every woman I possibly can.
I have a tremendous affinity for all flavors of snatch and enjoy a healthy sampling from as many declicious varieties as are available to me.
DD & RJ have provided me with many of the tools to make my quest easier and more rewarding.
Rather than arguing wussy style about all of this b.s., just use the great info from these gurus to explore some new tail.
Until then, you might want to grab a napkin. There is something on your hand.
After wiping all that goo off yo fingers remember RJ himself bashed DD. So it is not only the nimrods but the “guru’s” themselves that do this and of course we learn from them. Now off to remove some panties!
For the truth of what Speed Seduction(R) can do for you, even if you aren’t young, super-good looking, super-tall, etc….
To see guys who look average at best and UGLY at worst tell THEIR own stories on video…
To find out how you can do this anywhere, without ever having to set foot in a club…if you live ANYWHERE in the world, wherever you go
Go to:
http://www.seduction.com/resources.asp
It’s not about me.
It’s not about what other ‘gurus’ can do.
It’s ONLY about what YOU can do with the system offered.
RJ
P.S. For the record, my current LTR is FIFTEEN YEARS younger than me, and I would say she’s an “8″ looks wise.
Not bad for an ugly, old, cranky fart who can’t do SHIT on his looks.
“P.S. For the record, my current LTR is FIFTEEN YEARS younger than me, and I would say she’s an “8″ looks wise.”
You are 60 RJ, so 60 minus 15 equals 45. 45 DOESN’T qualify as solid HB material. An 8 on your scale is like a 6 on ours. Nuff said.
60?! Hahah I think hes about 45/46, which makes his chick 30, which isn’t that bad.
I’m 46. Jambie is 31. She’ll be 32 on the 21st of this month, as a matter of fact. She’s 5 foot 8, 120( a bit skinny for me). She speaks 4 languages, though she claims it is 5; her Spanish doesn’t really count.
I’m sure Mystery could and does pull hotter women. So what. My younger, better looking students can probably use my own methods to pull better looking, younger chicks than I can. At 46, no matter WHAT you do, some of them are going to x-nay you because of the age barrier. Some won’t. Oh well.
What can each person’s method do for you? Could you adopt MM and SS, to serve you best? Mystery himself uses SS in the comfort/trust stages. He says so in his workshops.
RJ
RJ you are best able to articulate the arguments of the Copeland argument against DYD…I read the newsletter and it said:
“We don’t expect you to spend every waking
moment of your life studying “techniques” and “patterns” so you can finally get what youwant with women.”
An RJ slam it seems…then we have:
He was far from being any kind of wiz with
women. And thanks to so called “dating
gurus,” he was completely confused about how
to get what he wanted with women.
OK this is the next slam against DYD’s Guru interviews (I’d love to hear RJ do a few of these!!) Dunno if he is as ‘open’ to all theories in an effort to get a unified field theory developed…
Then the part that was nasty:
“And here’s the important point:
He’s doing it all by *being himself.*
His approach with women is based on simple,
solid principles and it has nothing to do
with conning women, trying to be “alpha,”
being “cocky and funny” or any other
scam-oriented program.”
Scam-oriented I suppose is the ACT or immitation of the dominant Alpha male…Dave De must have felt HIMSELF attacked through the attack of his instruction.
So the weakness in C&F is that you must become an actor and comedian when you might lack both skills, memorizing comedy instead of patterns to recite…Louis and Copeland preach “connection” and “self-expression”…They use RJ’s stuff, do they use any of DD’s stuff or from that of the GURUs he has interviewed?
Their book says they discovered everything by going on many dates and experimenting… measuring what worked and what did not.
OK Imagine Ross crashes a DYD seminar:
Darth Vader is DaveDe, RJ is Obi Wan…has the student truly become the master? RJ hits David with the Discovery Channel Pattern, Dave goes into trance but utters some cocky funny….Who is Luke, who finds the loser in the battle? Louis & Copeland?
SDB
What is this a battle? I was confused when I read this first. I’m not a student of any of these three Gurus of Dating, but I find thier articles good and have a common goal.
But whatever the cause of these arguments… Well, I will beleive that money is the root of all evil hehehehehe.
I have to give David D/DYD the respect it deserves – it got me started on the track to improving all levels of my life: dating, work, school, frienships, personal. He’s a hell of a guy and I don’t think many people – besides the perpetually puerile PUA, Ross Jeffries – would deny that he’s done good work for Men in this world. However, I’ll wholeheartedly agree that the “Cocky Comedy” program was complete horseshit. The only useful thing in the program was Sean Stephenson’s “negative belief flush” trance – and that’s got SHIT to do with cocky comedy.
The cocky/funny thing is an interesting concept. He used it successfully as an attention-grabber, a great marketing technique. And, it works! In moderation, though. If that’s all you have going for you – sarcastic remarks and biting quips – you eventually come off as a transparent, predictable guy. It should be one of many ways of communicating with women that you master. I’ll give David credit, in the Mastery Series, he consistently harped on this exact point but, in releasing “Cocky Comedy” 6 months later, he pretty much made it null and void.
I recently attended a phenomenal Real Social Dynamics In-Field Workshop and – in consulting with EVERY SINGLE RSD instructor – they all told me one of the biggest flaws in my approach game. “Dude, you are too cocky/funny! Do exactly what you’re doing right but cut out the cocky/funny.” Thinking these guys were full of sh*t but wanting to get my $600 worth, I tried it out anyways. I dropped my cocky/funny by 80% and saw an enormous jump in the response I got from women. Granted, being cocky/funny is great with really hot chicks but, if you’re dealing with a 7 or 8, you might want to temper the use of C/F – you’ll come off as a prick.
And, as far as Louis & Copeland go. They are just mamby-pamby nice guy, Dr Phil dating advice tied up in a bad-boy/PUA image. I would never recommend it to anyone. Period. While they do attempt to offer a full lifestyle solutions, focused not just on dating/PUA, I would go with CE Image Consulting over LC anyday.
“I’m 46. Jambie is 31.”
Ha! You got a birth certificate as proof of this Ross? What kind of name is Jambie and why in the world did you go all the way to Africa and get yourself a mail-order bride. Don’t you know we here in America have very gorgeous babes walking all over the streets of California all hot and bothered for you?
C’mon. Birth cerficates? Now who is being foolish?
Her actual name is N’jambi, which is Kikuyu for “pioneer”. And I didn’t go to Africa, she came here, actually from England where she had worked as a nurse for 3 years. Before that, she lived in France. A lovely lady who speaks 4 languages. Originally, she’s from Naroibi, Kenya. You’d like her.
Your amoging attempts leave much to be desired, my young Padi-Wan.
Obi Ross
So in other words, David DeAngelo. has a better technique than Louis and Copeland? I thought I might got interested. That the real social dynamics are nothing but a waste of money compared to DYD? I wish David D and the Copelands… post their explanation here.
“Your amoging attempts leave much to be desired, my young Padi-Wan.”
You’ve got a seminar coming up next week, I expect you to share with your students some AMOGing techniques so that they won’t have to go to your competitors for such advice. Embrace teaching the skill the way you have embraced skillfully learning it, literally almost mastering it.
I’m gonna have to check the video where you called that chick a “Kenyan beauty” Is she your LTR because if she is, stealing more girls from your students deserves a new thread! More drama!
The cocky comedy thing didn’t catch my eye much for one because that’s probably the best thing I do, and two because if you count up from the advanced series, then sexual tension,then mastery series, then cocky comedy – that’s about the fourth installment of advanced (?)
I remember in the beginning of the newsletters David D. had answers to their problems that varied…
until an endless string of dumbasses wanted a “C&f response..” for everything!
Literally shit like “this girl stood me up at the office, what’s a cf comeback?”
I think the readers created the monster.
HOLY SHIT!
You want to know a fucking hilarious addition to this drama of DD playing both sides of the coin?
So my fiancee (yes, I’m settling down), bought an ebook on how to “Fire Your Wedding Planner” written by “Stephi Stewart” in an attempt to save money on the wedding.
So I’m skimming it one day on her computer, blah, blah, blah, and I go up to the document details, and who should come up in the document author box but…..(drum roll, please….)
EBAN PAGAN!!!!
LOL!
Seems like David D. knows lots of tips on how to save money on his wedding dress, wedding invitations, and other “chic fashion” elements.
As I read it, I’m thinking, this is written by a man!
Hilarious!
Josh
Hahaha shit. This is the url
http://www.fireyourweddingplanner.com/
It has the same website style that DYD has.
Someone has got to ask David about this at the cliff seminar!
when guys amog each other in front of a girl, the winner gets the girl. when guys amog each other in front of potential customers, the winner gets more customers.
Is that how David D Market? He designed a website for his product and another counterpart that say negative… great marketing strategy. But I do beleive that David D’s book is vague.
Here’s what networksolutions has to say about http://www.fireyourweddingplanner.com:
Registrant:
David DeAngelo Services Inc.
3960 Howard Hughes Pkwy
5th Floor
Las Vegas, Nevada 89109
United States
Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: FIREYOURWEDDINGPLANNER.COM
Created on: 15-Mar-02
Expires on: 15-Mar-07
Last Updated on: 07-Feb-05
Administrative Contact:
DeAngelo, David operations@daviddeangelo.com
David DeAngelo Services Inc.
3960 Howard Hughes Pkwy
5th Floor
Las Vegas, Nevada 89109
United States
8882443323 Fax –
Technical Contact:
DeAngelo, David operations@daviddeangelo.com
David DeAngelo Services Inc.
3960 Howard Hughes Pkwy
5th Floor
Las Vegas, Nevada 89109
United States
8882443323 Fax –
*******************************
Bwahahahahaha!
I couldn’t have dreamed this up or hired someone to make it up!
DeAngelo is also “Stephi Stewart”!!!!!
BWAHAHAHAHA!
Now, why, oh WHY if Thundercat even had a modicum of integrity, objectivity or fairness, wouldn’t he be asking DeAngelo..er, I mean Christian Carter..ooops, I mean Stephi..no, no, no, I mean Eben Pagan..about all of this.
Guys, I have been saying for years: DeAngelo is a hack, in it SOLELY for the money, and he doesn’t really give one diddly fuck about whether he helps you or not.
Is the message getting through YET?
Thundercat, WHY THE SILENCE on this?
This ought to be the COMMUNITY SCANDAL OF THE DECADE, but Thundy is SO afraid of losing his business affiliation with Deangelo, our intrepid blogger dare not open his donut-crumb encrusted mouth.
SHAME.
Now, someone PLEEEEEEEEEEESE ask DeAngelo about this, during his talk, at Cliff’s seminar.
Someone PLEASE video tape the exchange and put it up on the web for all to see.
RJ
RJ
Ross Jeffries wrote:
>>”Bwahahahahaha!
>>I couldn’t have dreamed this up or hired someone to make it up!
>>DeAngelo is also “Stephi Stewart”!!!!!”
David Deangelo ABSOLUTELY IS NOT “Stephi Stewart.” You can listen to a clip of “Stephi Stewart” talking on NPR here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4112099
It is the same GIRL who reads the BBB guarantee on fireyourweddingplanner.com.
>>BWAHAHAHAHA!
>>Now, why, oh WHY if Thundercat even had a >>modicum of integrity, objectivity or >>fairness,
It is a given that if you (Ross) registered these domain names, Thundercat would be crying scandal..
>> wouldn’t he be asking DeAngelo..er, I >>mean Christian Carter..ooops, I mean >>Stephi..no, no, no, I mean Eben >>Pagan..about all of this.
Heh. Somebody likes alliteration..
If you ask David Deangelo about this he would probably point out that he is a marketing consultant (and seemingly one who specializes in Internet marketing now) that has a proven formula for marketing pdf files via websites & email lists.
I don’t see how it is shocking for a PAID CONSULTANT to help others utilize his business model in exchange for some sort of fee..
>>Guys, I have been saying for years: >>DeAngelo is a hack, in it SOLELY for the >>money, and he doesn’t really give one >>diddly fuck about whether he helps you or >>not.
You respected his “Sisonpyh” posts so much that you invited him to a seminar FOR FREE. He befriended your inner SS circle and was a room mate of the legendary Rick H. You had him interview YOU on the Speed Seduction: The New Millenium CD and introduced him as YOUR sometime marketing consultant.
THEN YOU WROTE THIS:
“Eben and I had a falling out over a woman. I’m not necessarily proud of what I did, and in some ways think it was pretty fucked up and wrong.”
And the purposefully vague account of events that Bishop posted here alluded to something even more HORRIFYING…
So to summarize: David impressed you, learned from you, hung out with you and your friends, and then the relationship ended with you doing something with “fucked up” with his girlfriend.. And you are saying he doesn’t care about helping HIS students?
>>Is the message getting through YET?
The messenger is *somewhat* tainted..
>>Thundercat, WHY THE SILENCE on this?
>>This ought to be the COMMUNITY SCANDAL OF >>THE DECADE, but Thundy is SO afraid of >>losing his business affiliation with >>Deangelo, our intrepid blogger dare not >>open his donut-crumb encrusted mouth.
A marketing consultant and businessman helps other business people run and market their websites. I, for one, am fucking shocked..
Has anyone actually read DeAngelo’s advice for women? Is it any good? Don’t knock it until you read it. Where’s the post by Bishop, I’m curious as to what happened!
Has anyone actually read the book deangelo wrote for women? No sense knocking it if you haven’t even read it. Personally, I think a book which teaches girls to be more sassy and fun is much needed, considering how many undatable, boring girls there are.
BTW what did Bishop say about what happened between them? Sounds interesting
“Has anyone actually read the book deangelo wrote for women? No sense knocking it if you haven’t even read it. Personally, I think a book which teaches girls to be more sassy and fun is much needed, considering how many undatable, boring girls there are.”
That is SOOOO true. It’s getting to the point where all the girls I meet are just acting like total wussbag guys once they get to know me – I need a sassy, spunky brat to be quite honest.
wait you guys dont even know if Dave is doing this stuff yet, lets wait and see! (hopefully it will be cleared up either by him on his newsletters OR at cliffs list which i wont be able to attend, will it be recorded?)
Anyways lets wait to see what he responds with, after all for most of you he did get you started in the game, i mean like the guy above but for daves techniques or a mix of his and others he wouldnt be bothered about wussy girls as he would possibly be one himself lol. Anyway let the story continue and the little spies running around collecting material, i hope you enjoy yourselfs
Peace
In response to Ross, who wrote:
“Now, why, oh WHY if Thundercat even had a modicum of integrity, objectivity or fairness, wouldn’t he be asking DeAngelo..er, I mean Christian Carter..ooops, I mean Stephi..no, no, no, I mean Eben Pagan..about all of this.”
You tell them Ross Jeffries…er, I mean Paul Ross. Don’t throw stones when you’re hiding behind a fake name yourself.
“Guys, I have been saying for years: DeAngelo is a hack, in it SOLELY for the money, and he doesn’t really give one diddly fuck about whether he helps you or not.”
Hmm, so how is that less ethical than you taking credit for other people’s creations?
“Is the message getting through YET?
Thundercat, WHY THE SILENCE on this?
This ought to be the COMMUNITY SCANDAL OF THE DECADE, but Thundy is SO afraid of losing his business affiliation with Deangelo, our intrepid blogger dare not open his donut-crumb encrusted mouth.
SHAME.”
Don’t get a boner, Paul, but I actually agree with you here. Thundy would be all over your ass on this. As for if he lacks the testicular abundance to give it the same attention and mention since it’s David D., I can not comment, as only now can it be proven that he will be aware of this information. The oppourtunity to prove you wrong (which he has demonstrated many times having a passion for) is here for him.
“Now, someone PLEEEEEEEEEEESE ask DeAngelo about this, during his talk, at Cliff’s seminar.
Someone PLEASE video tape the exchange and put it up on the web for all to see.”
Just curious why you would want this done, Paul. How does this situation benefit you?
In response to “Canoe Connor” who wrote:
~~THEN YOU WROTE THIS:
“Eben and I had a falling out over a woman. I’m not necessarily proud of what I did, and in some ways think it was pretty fucked up and wrong.”~~
Is this a direct quote??? I don’t feel like looking for it myself. But if it IS a direct quote, I am sickened that he feels what he did was only “in some ways” pretty fucked up and wrong. Well, if this IS a direct quote, and Mr. Grand PooBah of Upper Scum Sack truly feels it was fucked up and wrong only in “some ways” then he should have NO problem giving the details and letting YOU GUYS decide for yourself just how fucked up and wrong it was.
After all, he doesn’t hesitate to share details of other people’s stumbles (and in SOME cases he fabricates or speculates the details).
So how about it, Ross…er, I mean Paul? Care to beat me to the punch by sharing the details yourself?
Oh, and Paul? That whole “Obi-Ross” thing, is the wrong side of the force, bud. You’re more like Palpatine, actually. He too presented himself one way to the masses, while in private he had a darker and hidden agenda. I don’t think he had a cat though, so that was different.
Hmm, so in this little universe of ours, would Thundy be Jabba, or just some pudgy stormtrooper in the background, telling the rest of the group “I’ll catch up with you later.”
Lando played all the angles in “Empire” so that would be…naw, I won’t say his name.
Who would be Chewie? HYPNOTICA! Yeah, he’s pretty hairy!
So would that mean that Piccus is Han Solo???
Okay, I’m done. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go play with my “Amidala.” (No, that doesn’t mean my right hand…it’s my left hand turned palm down)
Bishop
“Unleash What’s Within You”
http://www.new-alpha.com
“Unleash What She’s Been Waiting For”
http://www.new-alpha.com/fos.html
I directly quoted Ross as saying:
“Eben and I had a falling out over a woman. I’m not necessarily proud of what I did, and in some ways think it was pretty fucked up and wrong.”
Bishop wrote:
“Is this a direct quote??? I don’t feel like looking for it myself. But if it IS a direct quote, I am sickened that he feels what he did was only “in some ways” pretty fucked up and wrong. Well, if this IS a direct quote, and Mr. Grand PooBah of Upper Scum Sack truly feels it was fucked up and wrong only in “some ways” then he should have NO problem giving the details and letting YOU GUYS decide for yourself just how fucked up and wrong it was.”
Yes, the above was a DIRECT quote. It was taken from a post Ross wrote to alt.seduction.fast on Nov 10, 2002.
In that post, Ross also goes on to say that
“Truth: Eben saw a way to make some bucks and personally strike back at me by
creating DYD.”
and
DYD “is basically ONE trick and it doesn’t work even for Eben if the personal reports I’ve had are true, and I see no reason to disbelieve them.”
The post is still available via dejanews as of today..
I remember that thread. It’s still available via google newsgroups as well.
Emery,
Don’t have time to duel with you, but I’ll make one small comment:
At the time it all went down, when I told you what happened, I will never forget your response, You said, and I quote, “I don’t blame you at all. I would have done the same thing.”
So much for your moralistic posturing. Goodness, I recall you promising that one day you would buy me a house because I had made “all your fantasies come true”.
How the worm turns.
Good luck all.
Mr. Carter, I mean, DeAngelo, still has to explain why he wrote an ebook telling women how to defeat the vary advice he sold to men with his FIRST e-book. That issue stands and is completely separate from whatever went down with Pagan, er, DeAngelo, er, whatever his name’s former G-F and no amount of distraction and monkey dust is going to make it go away.
Why won’t Thundy address it?
Is ANYONE going to ask DeAngelo about it, during his talk at Cliff’s seminar?
Now, I’m off to learn the intricate details of teleseminars, which will be a big part of my business coming up soon.
RJ
WOW this is pretty fuckin intense. I can say i ordered the cocky comedy and only the guy in the wheelchair was the only good stuff, way too much for garbage, his other stuff is good though but after finding out he traded us i feel well betrayed. I sure hopes someone asks him whats up with that shit i know i’ll send him an e-mail and I hope more of you will too to see how he responds. Anybody got his body language stuff just to make sure its not garbage. AS far as Ross Iv purchased his prodcuts are good, I think its good to have a mix.
Thanks Chava. I think people often have a collector’s mentality in this game, and it isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but if people turn out trash like Cocky Comedy it’s time to see that THEIR well of creativity is dry as a nun’s pussy.
I will bet $1,000 Thundercat will fail to adequately address DeAngelo’s betrayal of this community and, more importantly, of his customers.
“Emery,
Don’t have time to duel with you, but I’ll make one small comment:
At the time it all went down, when I told you what happened, I will never forget your response, You said, and I quote, “I don’t blame you at all. I would have done the same thing.” ”
Incorrect quote. Initially you made it sound like she came over alone, and implied that she was using wanting to be hypnotized as just an excuse to come over. Which of course made it sound like she was cheating on Eben. So of course I didn’t blame you under THAT implied condition. Do I advocate finger fucking your friend’s girlfriend? No. But if she’s making the effort to get intimate with me, and I think she’s hot, I might have let it happen. Which is what I had actually said. While it’s not the best way to honor your friendship with Eben, I was speaking hypothetically, and trying to put you more at ease, as a true friend would do.
But you KNOW that once you told me the WHOLE story, the FIRST WORDS out of my mouth were, “Dude, that’s not right. Why’d you do that?”
So if you want to continue to make it sound like I would have done what you ACTUALLY did, then you will leave me no choice but to crack open my journal and share the details I wrote after we hung up that night. Yes, I made a journal entry. At the time I did it as a reminder of how not to let my abilities go too far. I didn’t use any real names, just in case it got read by someone. But it was all written within the hour after you called me, so many exact details are there. Think I’m bluffing? Here’s an excerpt, exactly as it is written:
“…”P” then said, “I started to unbutton her pants, and she wasn’t stopping me. She was just letting me do it.” I asked, “No shit?” “P” replied, “No, I’m dead serious! So I’m thinking I’ll go for it. So I start sucking on one of her nipples, and I’m reaching into her pants and I start to finger her. And she’s wet, Bish, she’s totally getting into this.” I asked, “Holy shit. And you’re doing all this and (the boyfriend)is just in the next room?” He laughed and said, “He was sitting in my living room, yeah. So I’m sucking on my finger, and she tastes good, Bish. And I make her suck my finger, taste herself. She was gone, I could have done whatever I wanted…”
Funny how the many things I initially wrote down from my experiences with you, were for learnings and life lesson purposes. Yet when combined now, reveal so many things about you that I had been blind to back then.
You’ve managed to spend quite an abundant amount of time detailing shit about ME, so give that same time and detail to sharing what REALLY happened, as YOU remember it.
or, maybe since I never used actual names
“So much for your moralistic posturing.”
I’M not the one who finger fucked a friend’s girlfriend, that was YOU. If we’re going to talk morality, then how moral was it when you spoke with me and Zack about being your “Generals” in your plan to create your own “organization” of followers? Have you shared this little plan with any of your students? Ever shared it with the community? I have that little episode in my journal too, so if you’ve forgotten the exact words, I can refresh your memory.
“Goodness, I recall you promising that one day you would buy me a house because I had made “all your fantasies come true”.
How the worm turns.”
You LITERALLY thought I was going to buy you a house???? I would have thought you would have taken that no more literally than me taking it literally when you said one day that you might ask me to fire a bullet for you. Oh, wait, were you actually SERIOUS about that after all???
“Good luck all.
Mr. Carter, I mean, DeAngelo, still has to explain why he wrote an ebook telling women how to defeat the vary advice he sold to men with his FIRST e-book.”
First of all, since the book is not yet available, you are (as always) speculating. You have no clue what the details are in the book. Plus, who says that DAVID wrote it??? You sold MY book, but I was the one who wrote it.
“That issue stands and is completely separate from whatever went down with Pagan, er, DeAngelo, er, whatever his name’s former G-F and no amount of distraction and monkey dust is going to make it go away.”
It would be in your best interest for it to not go away. It draws the attention away from your own shitty ethics. You still have no addressed why you even CARE about all this. I mean, unless it;s pissing you off that david beat you to the punch, I fail to see what any of it has to do with you and your business? Has David made statements that are a contrdiction to this latest discovery? Or is it simply a case of a scared 46 year old man who is feeling his once strong grip on the community, slipping more and more? You used to always go on and on at your seminars about “I don’t know if I’ll want to do this next year” (Usually right before, or just after, plugging the expensive “Speed Life” seminar)So why not just take a consultation position, and retire from the other things? We all must credit you for starting us on the seduction path, but I would imagine that you would WANT to retire, especially after being told you can’t attend the Montreal seminar in July. Isn’t it humiliating as piss to be told that if you were coming to the Montreal seminar that some of us Masters were going to decline coming? What the hell is it going to take for you to realize that you pissed off every great contact you ever had, and now it’s coming back to bite you on the ass!
What is it going to take for you to take a serious look at your reality, and realize that despite all your past success, you punish yourself for your own success by betraying (or feeling betrayed by) those you let into your inner circle. Well, except Kimmy, but that’s only because she dumped you and sent your ego into supplication mode through the anchors she’s set on you.
“Why won’t Thundy address it?
Is ANYONE going to ask DeAngelo about it, during his talk at Cliff’s seminar?”
Why don’t YOU ask him at the seminar? Oh, that’s right, you can’t, because you’re banned from even ATTENDING. Gee, how unfair, given your high level of loyalty and ethical standards.
“Now, I’m off to learn the intricate details of teleseminars, which will be a big part of my business coming up soon.”
I think you should cast the Verison Wireless guy for your role in the teleseminar. Hey, are you going to include the scenes where you tell guys not to supplicate to women, while you continue supplicating to some short, toad-faced, femi-nazi? That would be gripping television, Paul.
Now if you’re excuse me, I have to get back to my friends (You remember having those, once upon a time. Right, Paul?).
Bishop
“Unleash What’s Within You”
http://www.new-alpha.com
“Unleash What She’s Been Waiting For”
http://www.new-alpha.com/fos.html
OMG! This calls for a new thread!
Bishy, you know I’m a drama nut but I have to tell you something. I think it would be in your best interests to divulge all you know, all these little secrets you’ve got waiting inside you to be released. Why?
Well I was talking a few buds telling them how cool you were and that I was reading over Bishop’s Journal to get some good tidbits from it but time after time all I heard was, “Hey that shit is fake” or “Yates told us that book was conCOCKted up by a liar” or “RJ says Bishop is a fraud.”
I think the smearing campaign leveled on you by the Speed Seduction camp has worked and I think it’s time you cleared your name once and for all. Even though, in a way I can look on it as a good thing they won’t read your journal since I’ll be the only one in my circle using the great advice from it but I’d rather you get your credit and your name back too. Oh and knock’em dead at the Montreal Seminar.
“Thanks Chava. I think people often have a collector’s mentality in this game, and it isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but if people turn out trash like Cocky Comedy it’s time to see that THEIR well of creativity is dry as a nun’s pussy.”
This from the guy who now makes excuses for why he can’t seduce women in their 20′s. I have a student who’s 49 (that’s older than you by a few years)and seems to have success with college babes. So either you’re losing your abilities, or I’m better than you realize.
“I will bet $1,000 Thundercat will fail to adequately address DeAngelo’s betrayal of this community and, more importantly, of his customers.”
Ooh, a BET! Let’s hear the guidelines NOW, Paul, so you can’t back out if Thunderpants actually DOES somehow manage to adequately address…oh, who am I kidding, you’re likely right this time.
Hey speaking of betrayals though, how about you put something else into a bet? Bet me $1,000 I can’t create a better seduction master than you though my books. I have TWO books, you have a slew of products. So it should be easy for you to win, right? Go on, bet me $1,000 that you can better teach guys how to be seducers than I can. We can make it a nice event, just you, me, and the entire community as judges.
Hmm, or would you rather take it to the ULTIMATE level, and pit yourself against me in a one-on-one, since you shot your cunt lipped mouth off saying I’m a fraud, and that Bishop’s Journal was fiction. Come on, Paul, it should be the easiest $1,000 you ever made. I’ll even honor my previous offer, and sarge in YOUR neck of the woods. You’ll already have the home field advantage, which should MORE than secure your win against a “fake” like me. What do you say? Care to put your words to money, big mouth?
Or are you going to be a punk bitch and make up some excuses why you won’t do it?
“I have nothing to prove, Bishop.”
Oh really? Then why did you shoot off your punk ass mouth in the first place?
You’re great at attacking my skills verbally, but you seem to want to avoid actually putting your skills up against mine. You love to say I’m a fraud and a con man, yet I’ve always been willing to prove myself.
Hell, I’ll make it even SWEETER for you, win or lose I’ll give you 50% of the video sales. Oh, did I forget to mention that I’m going to have it all video taped, so you can’t come up with lame excuses for why you end up a shit smear compared to my abilities? No contracts or release forms needed, as we’ll be blurring out the female’s faces. Afterall, witnesses from the community will be able to verify the women’s hotness level, so all that matters is seeing and hearing us in action. I already had my lawyer look into it, and it is perfectly legal for us to have a “spycam” as long as we blur out the faces and distort the voices of anyone seen or speaking on the footage that does not sign a release form. But you used to be a paralegal, so you alredy know this.
Don’t want to only make it a $1,000? Name the bet? I have backers who are willing to put up as much as $15,000 for this event.
Your call. You can either publicly retract your statement that I am a fake, and admit to all the techniques and methods you got from me but claimed as your own, or I’ll just keep bringing up this challenge again and again from time to time.
Hmm, you have a seminar coming up this weekend in New York. Maybe I’ll have a friend stop by and have a chat about this with some of your students during a break or one of the times the seminar breaks for the night. Yeah, and they can ask you to your face about it. Maybe even video tape it, like you’re asking people to do to David. Nice suggestion, thanks for the idea!
Bishop
“Unleash What’s Within You”
http://www.new-alpha.com
“Unleash What She’s Been Waiting For”
http://www.new-alpha.com/fos.html
“Hmm, you have a seminar coming up this weekend in New York. Maybe I’ll have a friend stop by and have a chat about this with some of your students during a break or one of the times the seminar breaks for the night. Yeah, and they can ask you to your face about it. Maybe even video tape it, like you’re asking people to do to David. Nice suggestion, thanks for the idea!”
Holiday Inn
NEW YORK CITY-MIDTOWN-57TH ST.
440 WEST 57TH ST
NEW YORK CITY, NY 10019
UNITED STATES
Tel: 1-212-5818100
Fax: 1-212-5817739
http://www.daveriker.com/logseminar/nyhotel.htm
Let’s see some drama!
In response to “Ninja” who wrote:
“Bishy, you know I’m a drama nut but I have to tell you something. I think it would be in your best interests to divulge all you know, all these little secrets you’ve got waiting inside you to be released. Why?
Well I was talking a few buds telling them how cool you were and that I was reading over Bishop’s Journal to get some good tidbits from it but time after time all I heard was, “Hey that shit is fake” or “Yates told us that book was conCOCKted up by a liar” or “RJ says Bishop is a fraud.”
I think the smearing campaign leveled on you by the Speed Seduction camp has worked and I think it’s time you cleared your name once and for all. Even though, in a way I can look on it as a good thing they won’t read your journal since I’ll be the only one in my circle using the great advice from it but I’d rather you get your credit and your name back too.”
Trust me, Ninjitsu, I am very close to sharing EVERYTHING I know about Ross/Paul/punk bitch. Should he fail to admit that he lied about “Bishop’s Journal” being made up, and admitting that I am not a fraud, I will be unleashing the mother of all drama bombs: My journal entires about the inner conversations/experiences with Ross.
Today is Tueday. He has until Friday. If he has not publicly does as I request, then he has chosen to call my bluff, and so I will show him I never bluff.
“Oh and knock’em dead at the Montreal Seminar.”
I may not be attending the seminar after all. Before a rumor gets started, I want to make it clear that if I end up unable to attend, it was purely due to business matters, and not some falling out with Cliff or one of the Masters. The simple truth is this: At best, I may only be able to attend for the day I speak. That is my goal. But I do have a business to run, and an oppourtunity came to me last week that could prove very lucrative. Plus, to be honest, I have a chance to take advantage of a sweet deal on a trip I have long wanted to take, which would put me back in the States from a 16 hour flight, just a day or two before I would have to again jump on a plane to go to Montreal.
I’m not definitely saying I WON’T be there, I’m just saying that I may not, or that I may only be there for a day.
I’ll keep you posted if you’re on the AlphaList.
Bishop
“Unleash What’s Within You”
http://www.new-alpha.com
“Unleash What She’s Been Waiting For”
http://www.new-alpha.com/fos.html
Holiday Inn
NEW YORK CITY-MIDTOWN-57TH ST.
440 WEST 57TH ST
NEW YORK CITY, NY 10019
UNITED STATES
Tel: 1-212-5818100
Fax: 1-212-5817739
http://www.daveriker.com/logseminar/nyhotel.htm
Let’s see some drama!
LOL!
Ninjitsu, you just earned some major points with me. ThanX for the details. I’ll be making a phone call now.
Bishop
“Unleash What’s Within You”
http://www.new-alpha.com
“Unleash What She’s Been Waiting For”
http://www.new-alpha.com/fos.html
One more thing about the bet, Ross.
If you manage to find the balls to do it, you are required to ONLY use your Speed Seduction skills, and NOT use ANY of my “The Fire of Seduction” materiels AT ALL. That measn you can’t borrow any of my approaches, none of my methods, and certainly nothing from the “Bishop’s Blueprint” section. My materiels have ZERO elements of Speed Seduction, aside from perhaps my “Petals” approach, which does use some hypnotic aspects.
Bishop
“Unleash What’s Within You”
http://www.new-alpha.com
“Unleash What She’s Been Waiting For”
http://www.new-alpha.com/fos.html
Has anyone else noticed how Mike Emery is so desperate to drum up sales for his books, the only way he can think to get attention for his stuff is by consistently attacking me, the person who he credits in the beginning of Bishop’s Journal as being such an inspiration.
Mike, it’s obvious that you are either desperate to generate sales or just too lazy to think of any other method. You don’t deserve to be tied to my name.
RJ
93/93
P.S. Mike, if you are so good at producing results for students, why not post free video files of students telling their stories, like I have at:
http://www.seduction.com/resources.asp
Surely your students ought to be able to speak for themselves. If you have results as a teacher, SHOW THEM.
BTW, and for the record, I have NEVER said that Bishop’s Journal was/is a fraud and I defy Emery or anyone else to cite any quote of mine where I said any such thing.
I have always said I have NO idea to what extent Emery actually experienced the adventures he wrote about, but that they don’t seem all that implausible as he is applying standard SS stuff that has worked for thousands of students in the past.
Yates, my business partner, has made the statement that Bishop’s Journal was a work of fiction.
Mr. Emery was booted from my camp for cheating my students; he took money for book orders that he never delivered upon and then he lied about it. I also subsequently learned that he had a previous history of cheating people on the internet(the Beanie Baby scandal) which he hid from me, and then lied about when I confronted him.
The veracity of Bishop’s Journal and Mr. Emery’s seduction skills were NEVER any part of why he was booted.
You cheat my students and don’t fill orders and you are gone, regardless and irrespective of your skills at seduction.
And there you have it. Now, Mr. Emery keeps making references to me, challenging me in a thread that has nothing to do with him and EVERYTHING to do with Mr. DeAngelo, because he sees it as a cheap way to generate publicity for his products, which, without his connection to me, would generate little interest or sales at all.
Mr. Emery, your pants are down and your Dunlop’s disease is showing as well as your transparent motives. Perhaps a good therapist would remind you that you can’t fool everyone all of the time and you ought not to get so tense about the fact.
RJ
P.S. I’m glad to hear about your imaginary friend you’d like to send to talk to me, but honestly, it’s time to put all that stuff away along with your Muppet Baby Underoos and grow up. And I have real friends who are more than able to handle security, including my friend and student Mr. B, the Federal Cop. You remember him, don’t you? I’m sure he’ll be happy to discuss your internet threats with you.
I even kept him on AFTER he committed his crime and I had bailed him out of jail.
“Mike, it’s obvious that you are either desperate to generate sales”
RJ it’s YOUR fault he hasn’t exploded the way he should be right now, sending out your little faithful soldiers to spread the lies about the book being fake. Who the fuck is Yates to call the book a fabrication when he knew why he was actually trying to discredit Bishop over a wire payment. How dishonorable can you be to someone who taught you so much? You’re the one who espoused learning from your students, but I think we now know why you took that position. I can’t wait to see how this plays out.
“Ninjitsu, you just earned some major points with me.”
If you want to take me out to dinner and go sarging, I accept!
LOL
Paul, Paul, Paul.
Still avoiding the subject of doing a one-on-one “sarge-off” against me as usual.
That’s cool, I’d be scared of me too.
As for me being “desperate” to generate sales, that’s cute.
And to say this is the motive behind my “attacks” on you, is laughable. You brought these “attacks” on yourself by attacking others, genius! You made quite an effort to smear my name, yet which one of us was not only invited to attend, but also to speak at THE BIGGEST SEDUCTION EVENT OF THE YEAR.
Which one of us is willing to pit his abilities against the other in a public challenge?
Which one of us lost everything, yet has managed to not only survive, but is also more powerful than when he left?
You pissed off a lot of people, Paul, and these “attacks” are just an example of the outcome of your actions. You called me your “best student” then when I pulled my products, I was suddenly a fake. I have news for you; Talk to anyone who has a copy of my seduction book. They can verify the quality of women I’m with in the pics. Funny how you don’t seem to have any such pics of yourself with hot women, outside paid publicity pics. (PLUG: Very soon, I’ll be adding many pics to my website to show what’s possible to get with my materiels. Not just women *I* get, but the women my students get as well. Where’s YOUR pics, Paul???)
Paul, you attack the intelligence of your own students, you attack women’s decisions to not go for you, you attack people on this board, and you attack other Masters. Yet you still seemed surprised that those of us who once learned from you, are now disgusted by you. None more so than me; the one you tried so hard to completely vanquish. Yet here I am. Not only have I once again proven myself to the community that I am legit, but I stand here, looking you right in the eyes and saying, “Sit down, and be quiet!” There is SO much I have held back, that I could easily ruin you with. Yet I don’t wish to see you ruined. But I also don’t care to protect you any longer. So you really do have a choice, and you need to give it a lot of thought. You can either admit to the community that you lied, and that “Bishop’s Journal” was NOT a work of fiction, or you can try to protect yourself from what I do about your defiance. Unlike you, I have no desire to use my power to vanquish you. I simply want the record to be set straight. A true Jedi, if you still are one, would not try to discredit the other Jedi Masters.
But, like I said, it’s your choice. I won’t make any threats, I don’t need to. You know what I know about you, so your own knowledge of that is threat enough.
As for the video testimonials, those are already in the works. As I don’t do seminars, the logistics are different than what you have available. I’m scheduling a couple of female testimonials too. Do you have any female testimonials???
I heard a rumor that some of the testimonials you use are actually employees of Straightforward, or their family members. Any truth to that?
Bishop
“Unleash What’s Within You”
http://www.new-alpha.com
“Unleash What She’s Been Waiting For”
http://www.new-alpha.com/fos.html
“If you want to take me out to dinner and go sarging, I accept!”
Woah, are you inviting yourself on a date with me??? LOL
Tell you what; If you’re ever in Las Vegas, I’ll take you to one of my favorite babe finding locations. No matter what day it is, no matter what time it is, I find hot yummy babes just waiting there for some Bishop reality. (Consider yourself lucky. I normally only take those I do consults with)
Bishop
“Unleash What’s Within You”
http://www.new-alpha.com
“Unleash What She’s Been Waiting For”
http://www.new-alpha.com/fos.html
“Woah, are you inviting yourself on a date with me??? LOL
Tell you what; If you’re ever in Las Vegas, I’ll take you to one of my favorite babe finding locations. No matter what day it is, no matter what time it is, I find hot yummy babes just waiting there for some Bishop reality. (Consider yourself lucky. I normally only take those I do consults with)”
I give a respectful warrior’s bow of appreciation for the kind words…Okay, it’s passed now, so don’t get all emotional on me. ;- ) LOL