Louis & Copeland vs… David Deangelo???
May 2, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under Drama & Rumors
Now this is a wierd development. In their latest newsletter, titled "Now They’re Threatening Us," authors of the book How To Succeed With Women Ron Louis and David Copeland reveal that there’s some drama going on between them and another "well known" guru.
Hi!
We want to make a confession to you:
Our competitors are not happy about our seminar. And some of them are getting personal.
One competitor actually wrote to us and threatened us after our recent newsletter exposed the many downsides of trying to be "Cocky and Funny" and manipulate women.
He told us be had better "watch out," and to not blow the whistle on the scams that many newly-minted "dating gurus" use to take money out of shy men’s pockets.
But that’s what makes us different. We don’t teach elaborate techniques that only work if you have natural charisma or could be a talented hypnotist.
We don’t expect you to spend every waking moment of your life studying "techniques" and "patterns" so you can finally get what you want with women.
Here’s what we do — We teach "dirt simple" success with women — the kind of success that works for every guy.
It’s a big claim, but we can back it up. We’ve been coaching men in dating for 10 years. That means we’ve been helping men since long before the internet made it easy for any guy to call himself a dating guru, and to take men’s money.
Owch. Since David DeAngelo is the only guy who lays legitimate claim to the "cocky funny" moniker, I’m assuming that it was him who contacted Ron & Dave. I’m not really sure he told them not to "blow the whistle on the scams that many newly-minted "dating gurus" use to take money out of shy men’s pockets." But it wouldn’t surprize me if he did contact them about bashing his techniques in their previous newsletter.
I’ll see if I can get more on this soon.
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“not blow the whistle on the scams that many newly-minted “dating gurus” use to take money out of shy men’s pockets.”
Judging from the video set Cocky Comedy that I bought, I would say Louis and Copeland have a point. It was clear that set was only released to make money, DD was hyping the products that we “have to get” on the 2nd DVD and I did not appreciate spending money for such shit. (Shit is not exclusive to Speed Seduction as you can see.) Alot that was promised in the marketing is not delivered on, IMHO.
“He told us be had better “watch out,” and to not blow the whistle”
Sounds just like something RJ would do.
Yeah, I thought Cocky Comedy was a waste of money as well. Good thing I ripped it from Kazaa. The only thing worth a dime, IMO, was the guest speaker portion (like most of his products), and even those were too short. Sean Stehpenson’s portion was especially brilliant though. That guy’s a powerhouse.
The PUA community is a matrix by itself.
David D’s best product is the original Advanced Dating Techniques. After this he just got money hungry and started releasing products that were just filled random theories and ideas that really had nothing to do with seduction.
Look at the mastery program, aside from the guest speakers, Davids material could have been condensed down to 2 hours rather than 15 or so. He put such a wide range of information in and it was covered so lightly that a few weeks after watching it you can barely remember anything that was covered.
Agreed. There’s too much stuff covered in the Mastery program, and it’s easily forgotten.
What would I recommend? I just recently acquired a taped seminar by David X in Montreal. It is awesome!, and repeatedly hammers on holding the right frame of mind.
Back on topic…
Come on. David D. goes to extreme effort *not* to diss his competitors, for example SS.
This sounds like a Paul Ross Jeffries move.
Yeah,
I’m a big fan of David D., however, I only own his 2 ebooks and about 6 interview series (which I eventually cancelled becasue they had a “sameness” to them)…
Personally I think there is NO chance that David D. sent Ron & David that email: controversy only increases exposure and credibility of the product, and David D., as a VERY professional marketer, would know that.
Ultimately, David D. makes the transition for many men AFC => rAFC, and that in my opinion is priceless.
Anon
PS How many products can really be made about this stuff? There is a finite amount of structural knowledge to what constitutes a successful interaction… there may be a million different ways to IMPLEMENT that structural knowledge in a social setting… but to get to the PUM level, it’s the development of a mans core identity based on fundamental principles of LIFE itself that makes the difference.
And ultimately, that’s a journey no “product” can really help you take.
While I have no love for DeAngelo, I don’t think very highly of Louis or Copeland either.
These losers knock Speed Seduction(R), all the while stealing huge pieces of it.
I’ve been teaching using skillfull descriptions of feeling states for over a decade. Here is a quote from one of L and C’s newsletters where they blatantly rip me off(as they did in an entire chapter of their book).
Read on:
“5. Do describe feelings for her.
Your goal in flirting is to get her to think romantic thoughts about you, and to want to act on those thoughts. To do this, you must describe romantic feelings. Have you ever been with someone who was describing something disgusting? Perhaps a friend had been sick, and later described to you, in intimate, loving detail, every step and every nuance of how it felt to be about to throw up. Can you remember how you felt as he described his sickness? Did you start to get sick, too? Or have you ever wished someone would stop describing some horrible event or accident, because you are starting to feel how it must have felt? You probably have. These people have used a simple principle on you, that to describe a feeling to someone makes them experience that feeling. That’s why you feel sick when your friend describes getting ill, or you feel queasy when someone talks about a disgusting accident.
To flirt successfully, you absolutely must take advantage of this principle, only in reverse. You must describe the feelings you want her to have–romance, attraction, arousal–in lush and lavish detail. As you describe these feelings, she’ll start to have them. The principle is simple: when someone describes something to you, you must imagine it to be able to understand what they are talking about. If I’m describing my new car to you, and tell you that it’s a mini-van, and it’s blue, you can’t help but imagine it. Even if I tell you not to imagine something, you have to imagine it to know what not to think about. If I tell you not to imagine a mini-van, you must think of one, so you know what thought to avoid.
The same thing happens when you describe a feeling to a woman. Whether she wants to feel the feeling you are describing or not, she must feel it to even know what you are talking about. The extent to which she feels it is dependent on how well you describe the feeling.
For instance, Sven is talking to the attractive young woman behind the pastry counter. “I can imagine you must feel so great and special behind the counter, goddess of the whole store, and people come to worship you,” he says to her. “Those great feelings of people coming to see you must really make you feel wonderful.” He’s playfully described feelings of specialness to her, and, if she is to evaluate what he’s talking about at all, she must go inside and feel those feelings. As she feels those feelings while looking at Sven, she starts to connect his visits to her store with feeling those special feelings. In time, this will lead her to “naturally” feel attracted to him.
Poets are the get-laid kings of all time. Poetry is a wonderful tool in teaching you how to make beautiful, and detailed, descriptions on romantic things. After all, 99% of poetry is about love. If you look at most any romantic poetry you’ll find it’s made up of descriptions of romantic, loving feelings. Romance novels are much the same way. They are unending streams of descriptions of romantic feelings. Learn to speak romantically by describing romantic feelings, and you will be much more successful with women.”
Goodness gracious. Louis and Copeland, why don’t you show a BIT of integrity and admit where you learned this?
RJ
93/93
http://www.seduction.com/resources.asp
“Come on. David D. goes to extreme effort *not* to diss his competitors, for example SS.”
David D doesn’t want to admit how much of what he does in the field(as opposed to what he teaches) he actually learned from me.
For a guy who used to post on Cliff’s list under the screen name sisonpyh(hypnosis, backwards) and who used to, when he was my student, use hypnosis on women all the time(and even brag to me about it privately about how well it worked), he sure has backpedaled from his association with me and what I teach.
Hell, he can be seen on my LA 99 videos testifying how great SS is and how well it worked for him back then.
Suddenly he goes into business for himself and refuses even to discuss it or admit it has any use or value, totally in contradiction to his statements on video tape and what he constantly told me personally.
It’s his dishonesty about this that bugs me, more than anything else. He does it to try to establish some uniqueness to his product line, but don’t doubt for a minute that the guy privately uses hypnotic language on women as much as he can. I challenge him to publicly say I am wrong.
I wonder when he appears at Cliff’s seminar if he will show the integrity to admit to anyone asking that he was once my student and actually used what I taught him with success or will he just attack or ignore the questioner.
RJ
93/93
P.S. For the record, it was NOT me who wrote to Louis and Copeland about the cocky/funny routine being severely limited in usefullness. Why would I? I actually AGREE with them on this.
And I find them as loathesome and dishonest about not crediting me as a source as I do DeAngelo.
P.P.S. For all you flamers, I have constantly and consistently credited ALL of my sources, including Bandler, Cunnigham, Cleveland as well as friends of mine: Riker, Vince Kelvin, Kim and Tom of essential-skills. I have no problem giving credit where it is due. One thing I admire about Mystery is he DOES give credit to me and admits he uses SS in the comfort building phases of his system.
In an integrity contest between Louis and Copeland and DeAngelo, with regards to learning from my work, Louis and Copeland win, but just barely. Sort of like saying a bucket of bloody snot is less loathesome than a turd covered toad.
I like the DYD ebook but I also read ASF and I can see how much David D steals from everyone else. It is some kind of joke. Everybody will tell you that David D does not sarge much so he must steal things from everyone to package new producs.
Ross,
I have to admit that newsletter snippet sounds exactly like your teachings….
Thanks for pointing out that they have such good ripped-off material in their newsletters.
/me leaves to go subscribe.
Something needs to be made clear:
Ron Louis has incredible game.
That’s right. I have seen it with my own eyes. He came to Florida a few montha ago to give a small seminar and I led him into an area of my choosing where he had never been before. There were few people out and he gamed two cute (tall skinny blond 7+) 20 year old girls on the street so well so quickly that had I been even half ass up to my part we could have taken them home then and there.
Don’t be fooled by the fact that some of the Louis and Copeland material comes off a little supplicant like. Ron is a true Jedi Master, and can generate attraction very quickly. He has gotten much better in recent years and adjusted for looks, he is probably as good as Mystery.
Ron is not hideous, but he is clearly not getting much mileage out of his looks, like Mystery does. He is not even as good looking as the RSD guys, which makes his incredible powers all the more impressive.
Ron and David always incorporate lots of field work – with real women – in their seminars. Guys think they are weak because they are among the very few gurus who DO NOT LIE AND PROMISE UNREALISTIC RESULTS. Ron and David, like Gunwitch, realize that nothing is guaranteed with women and even if you are an incredible PUA you have to rack up a good number of rejections to have successes. There is no magic formula that will get every woman you approach in bed. There are solid principles that will allow the average guy to get 1 out of every 5 to 20 women he approaches in bed.
I hear this is also David DeAngelo http://catchhimandkeephim.com/
Confirm Deny?
“Hell, he can be seen on my LA 99 videos testifying how great SS is and how well it worked for him back then.”
What video of LA 99 is this on so I can confirm this to be true?
For any skeptics that David DeAngelo was ever a pupil of Ross Jeffries, there is an incredible interview you can download on Kazaa (sorry Ross, but I’m poor) where “Brother Eban” or however you spell David’s old last name interviews Ross on SS stuff. It’s kinda like his Interviews With Dating Gurus, only he doesn’t stroke his ego through half of this interview like his current interviews, and Ross actually gets to amaze us with his magic. I actually laughed through the first 2 minutes of the interview hearing David D. without his trademark Al Gore monotonality. Check it out if you get a chance.
“What video of LA 99 is this on so I can confirm this to be true?”
I think its near the end of tape 4 when Ross is talking about doing the act like you’re gay walkup. He also appears elsewhere randomly through the vids (Ive not watched them for awhile but I remember stopping it and going “whoa thats david d.. hang on, has he had a nose job?”. Also from just relistening to the basic home study course he also pops up quite a few times there aswell, you can tell its him by that overally emphasised monotone voice.
It was probably that dude from “seduce n conquer”. All he goes on about is “cocky funny this” and “cocky funny that”.
As for Louis and Copeland, they go on and on about being confident, humourous, and assertive… sounds like cocky and funny to me.
And when they give “dirt simple success with women” techniques such as “touch her atleast six times” and “it is also important to apologize for anything you did to cause her to be upset” in that book of theirs, they can’t honestly believe they’re truely helping men with that crap.
And who ISN’T trying to “take money out of shy men’s pockets” in this business? are they doing everything for free now? I don’t think so.
you ross jeffries and L & C are just a waste of time for the whole community
shame on your asses!
Anybody who offers unsolicited negative opinions about pickup information and its providers doesn’t care much about the fate of the new members of the community.
Speaking as someone who’s early in the process, I have to say it’s incredibly damaging to my internal state when I study something and later hear it bashed. It makes me doubt all I have learned, when instead I should be forming a cohesive, congruent internal state – regardless of whether it’s drawing from Mystery, Ross, DD, RSD, or any of the other self professed gurus.
So shame on you, Ross! Louis and Copeland, I don’t care how much game you got, shame on you! Shame on the rest of you negative posters! Think about the fragile state of mind of the newbies and just keep your damn mouths shut until someone asks!
And to the rest of you who keep your message consistently positive, and keep working to uncover or reword key concepts, god bless you, you’re saving the world one male psyche at a time.
To say that I hate the reckless bashing and shameless self-promotion that goes on within the dating consulting circle would be a lie. Information is one of the most profitable products to sell in the market, and I don’t see why business people should refrain from promoting their merchandises (in a less-retarded way that is). In fact, I find the drama quite entertaining and enjoyable at times.
Some are willing to participate in these kinds of drama despite the great risk of damaging their own public images, while the others attempt of stay out of sight and focus on other ways of self-promotion. This is all very understandable.
When business is blended with teaching, the true meaning to teach is lost. What is left can only be labeled as consulting or the trading of information (helpful information worthy of your greenbacks in most cases), if you will. Ultimately, it is the faithful students of the art that suffers the consequences; lost in the masses of advertisement and packs of businessmen dressed as teachers.
I cannot stand here today and critique the pseudo-teachers in the market or offer my own advice, because I am not a true teacher myself. I can only offer my opinion to fellow learners who might be too caught up in the current to see the obvious.
Art
Registrant:
David DeAngelo Services Inc.
3960 Howard Hughes Pkwy
5th Floor
Las Vegas, Nevada 89109
United States
Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: CATCHHIMANDKEEPHIM.COM
Created on: 24-Mar-04
Expires on: 24-Mar-07
Last Updated on: 07-Feb-05
Administrative Contact:
DeAngelo, David operations@daviddeangelo.com
David DeAngelo Services Inc.
3960 Howard Hughes Pkwy
5th Floor
Las Vegas, Nevada 89109
United States
8882443323 Fax –
Technical Contact:
DeAngelo, David operations@daviddeangelo.com
David DeAngelo Services Inc.
3960 Howard Hughes Pkwy
5th Floor
Las Vegas, Nevada 89109
United States
8882443323 Fax –
Domain servers in listed order:
WSC1.JOMAX.NET
WSC2.JOMAX.NET
Wow. Now, I wonder if anyone attending’s Cliff’s List Seminar would like to ask Mr. DeAngelo, aka Mr. Carter, aka Eben Pagan, how he can justify talking out of both side of his DeAnushole, writing a book for women to help them AVOID the very type of player he is teaching men to be?
“Wow. Now, I wonder if anyone attending’s Cliff’s List Seminar would like to ask Mr. DeAngelo, aka Mr. Carter, aka Eben Pagan, how he can justify talking out of both side of his DeAnushole, writing a book for women to help them AVOID the very type of player he is teaching men to be?”
Why don’t you ask Riker, you’ve got him planted in the community to be your little spy so you can be on top of the latest techniques, and he’s even joined a venture with some of your “competitors” so you go ask him why he is on both sides of the coin.
Ah Ninja…I’m busted. Yes, Riker is part of the International Speed Seduction(R) Zionist Occupational Government of Sarge. ISSZOGS.
We are watching YOU, Ninja. That buzzing in your head that jolts you awake at night? THATS US!
That little flash out of the corner of your eye.
YEP.
Now, why isn’t Thundercat reaming David D a new DeAnushole for writing a book for women that will help them avoid the very thing he teaches men?
Goodness, isn’t THAT a scandal BEYOND scandals that this blogsmearsheet ought to be TRUMPETING? Ought not Thundy be on the phone to David/Christian..er..uh..Eben, RIGHT NOW to demand to know what is going on?
Well, I am quite a newbie, too, and yeah, the bashing in the scene is quite disturbing.
As for you guys, if you have seen what David D. said in his mastery series about embracing the paradox, you should stop worrying.
I even heard David D. saying in an interview or program : I have friends who use hypnotic language and it works perfectly for them, but there is always something else behind it.
So he admitted it. He always admits where he got his friends. I can’t really understand why everyone has to bash each other. While you, Ross, teach very good paterns and techniques for the men to get the right states of mind, David D. does this in another,for me better working way.
But he also uses the same NLP techniques to induce those states of mind to change your beliefs.
He just doesn’t use these language patterns to create states.
He just goes the way creating them by behavior and perhaps parts of your ideas.
But he covers ideas you don’t cover and you cover special ideas he doesn’t cover.
I think for all AFCs who want to become an rAFC or a bit higher rank David D.’s work is a must.
For all those who want to get pick up artists with solid hypnotical 100 percent game strategy are best with Ross’s material. no way round it
And all those, who want to be just outgoing and have fun in their body’s are better off with David D.’s, Mystery’s or RSD’s stuff.
My problem with SS is, that in a relationship it gets boring for me.
So i use my own created self to attract, and not to seduce, so i don’t always have to worry about states.
Just my 2 cents
Because of the fun it might be be, why don’T we read those book before bashing it?
The comments I heard were, that he made them look out for guys who are exactly how he teaches, and he makes them avoid terrible wusses and tells how to spot them.
This shouldn’t be bad, as society’s wimps should be reduced as much as possible in my opinion. Whether they just die out or are reframed using psychological or hypnotical means doesn’t matter to me.
“The comments I heard were, that he made them look out for guys who are exactly how he teaches, and he makes them avoid terrible wusses and tells how to spot them.”
So she’s looking to “catch and keep” a guy who is looking to “double his dating?”
That’s mathematically impossible.
rikerismyspy AKA Ross,
Your AMOGING has become completely world class so what if you taught the people in the Speed Seduction camp some of what you’ve got in your toolbox and open our eyes to other things out there. You say you’re the best teacher/guru out there, set your students free and if they come back to you, it was meant to……. be…….. not right for you to claim to be the best teacher out there in the meanwhile you hold back on giving us more skillsets.
You might remember that David didn’t only interview straight players.
He even had some people being married and in winderful relationships ( as they claim, I don’t know them personally ).
So he even tells us he has a girlfriend too most of the time.
You take the words too serious. You can have MLTRs and double your dating while she caught and kept you as an LTR, right?
And even if you got a girl that “caught and kept” you for a year, you might have gotten her while you “doubled your dating”.
even mystery says that for him it is not about getting laid it is about wonderful relationships.
Being in a relationship doesn’t mean you are a wuss. but staying in an unhealthy relationship because of one-iti disease is a wuss move.
So why not have a great woman “catch, keep” and fuck you all the time?
And ninja: You are so perfectly right, as David’s material in combination with Ross’s makes both far more great than they are alone
“You might remember that David didn’t only interview straight players. He even had some people being married and in winderful relationships ( as they claim, I don’t know them personally ).”
A man has to risk divorce court if he marries, and once he does, his wife is forever the alpha in the relationship because the state is on her side.
“So he even tells us he has a girlfriend too most of the time.”
Mystery SHOWS us his.
“You take the words too serious. You can have MLTRs and double your dating while she caught and kept you as an LTR, right?”
If a woman doesn’t mind her “boyfriend” fucking other chicks, sure. LTR usually means exclusive.
“And even if you got a girl that “caught and kept” you for a year, you might have gotten her while you “doubled your dating”.”
Then the guy was gamed.
“even mystery says that for him it is not about getting laid it is about wonderful relationships.”
Like the one he had with Katya?
“Being in a relationship doesn’t mean you are a wuss. but staying in an unhealthy relationship because of one-iti disease is a wuss move.”
If it’s an exclusive LTR (the woman’s goal), it’s either oneitis for you or she’s so far out of your league she’s settling.
“So why not have a great woman “catch, keep” and fuck you all the time?”
If a guy doesn’t mind being an AFC boyfriend, no problem at all. He’s just not much of a player in that sense.
How many girlfriends in an LTR would tolerate a guy who follows DYD religiously?
“And ninja: You are so perfectly right, as David’s material in combination with Ross’s makes both far more great than they are alone.”
Great for those selling the products, no doubt!
Johnny DEFINITELY = Ray Gordon
“Johnny DEFINITELY = Ray Gordon”
Who cares, the drama rolls on.
Shao, why do you assume that the woman, who has “caught” and “kept” you, is a great woman? Do you think great women are buying this ebook? NO fucking way! Any woman who goes to the gym and has a sense of fashion and makeup has atleast 10 guys trying to go after her. I knew women who were UGs and they had atleast 3 guys fighting for them.
Any woman who needs dating advice is either so fucking ugly that she doesn’t deserve any of us, or she’s trying to get guys out of her league. Either way, it’s not making our job any easier.
David D. sold out! Just accept it, you idol worshippers. His market share has dried up and now he needs to sellout to make more money. If he actually had real skill, he could sell in-field workshops, which is a booming business, and the skill required to teach them isn’t even that great…..
…however, David D. isn’t even one of the top 100 PUAs out there……….
…..more likely, he’s just an rAFC……
…who’s playing make- believe guru…
…..and that’s the….
-Truth
“…however, David D. isn’t even one of the top 100 PUAs out there……….
…..more likely, he’s just an rAFC……
…who’s playing make- believe guru…
…..and that’s the….
-Truth”
LOL!
I think the best buys for a total newbie to seduction are (in order):
1, Louis+Copelands – How To Succeed With Women Mastery
2, Gunwitch – Dynamic Sex Life
3, DYD – Advanced Dating Techniques
4, Swinggcat – Real World Seduction
The rest (ss, dyd cocky comedy etc etc) arent necessary to get laid.
Well, I know many women who are real beautiful and nice fun persons but a bit insecure about their relationships.
They are like us in that way, and we can become great guys just by learning too.
Well, I am not sure if you can call it oneitis if you CHOOSE to stay in such a relationship for some time. And I don’t mean choose because she complains or because you believe you wouldn’t get any other. Maybe you could call it lazyness.
And if you choose it, it’s okay.
If you want to fuck others, either break up or use Major Mark’s advice on “Building a better girlfriend”.
And for selling the products the guys producing the material would make far more money if they started working together in some way.
Every man who understands the prisoners’ dilemma knows what i talk about.
Must jump in here and have my say…
I’m one of those guys who studies everything regardless of who the authors/originators are, my opinion is that you can learn something good from all of the systems and ‘experts’ out there.
But I have to say that most of the new stuff that L+C have brought out is ripped off from RJ. Example: Their book “How to talk to women”
C’mon guys, credit where it’s due.
Yeah, THIS is important.
The credit has to go where it belongs.
And David D. HAS BEEN a student of Ross Jeffries for sure.
But he doesn’t teach his ideas anymore so why should he credit him in his work?
I know Ross, he might use it still.
But he doesn’t teach it.
If he doesn’t admit it, he doesn’t what he teaches, being radically honest.
“We are watching YOU, Ninja. That buzzing in your head that jolts you awake at night? THATS US!”
That was fucking funny. If this was Ross, he’s added a sense of humour to his flames at last. A good development for drama addicts like me who find things like this hilarious.
In all seriousness (well I suppose if I was reading this I’d find it funny) though, subscribe to the Christian Carter newsletter:
” You’ve got to learn to understand and identify
“EMOTIONALLY UNAVAILABLE” men.
If a man doesn’t know what he wants, he generally
doesn’t want what he’s got. ”
WHERE’S THE SEXUAL TENSION THERE DAVO?!?
That’s it! I’m cancelling my subscription to the monthly interview CDs.
How could the guy go and do that? Playing both sides?
Traitor!
Or even worse; he thinks he’s so smart to get away with it. He reminds me of Senator Palptine from Star Wars, betraying the Jedi PUAs and manipulating the events to build his empire.
Kind of makes you wonder what Style is going to do with his book. We all know how the mainstream is AFC.
Hold on, ratsub,
As much as I detest Mr. DeAnushole, I do NOT advocate piracy and copyright theft. Sure, David D is an original, imitative, patently droll repackager of other people’s ideas.
But, and I must emphasize it, HE DOES IT ***LEGALLY*****. When he rips-off David Deida, for example, he changes just enough of the specific language and wording to make it LEGAL(and also hires someone else to do the actual product for him, who David then features as an interview with an “expert”-an “expert” whom he merely assigned to go out and read all of the REAL experts material to get ready to re-present it as his own).
Hey, David can sue me for libel if this isn’t the way he really operates. I’ve got eyes and ears EVERYWHERE inside his operation. David..don’t GET REALLY NERVOUS about what I know.
Anyway, as I said, David is imitative, duplicituous, passive-aggresive slime. BUT HE DOES IT ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE LAW.
You should obey the law too.
RJ
“I’ve got eyes and ears EVERYWHERE inside his operation.”
I TOLD YOU that was what Riker was for. Or Ross could be bullshitting to scare his competitors, lol.
“he changes just enough of the specific language and wording to make it LEGAL”
Hey, now we know how YOU do it. Thanks buddy!
“You should obey the law too.
RJ”
Is the legal system and the laws that govern it flawless? No.
Well, I don’T see that guy as my great guru, but this is what was the interesting thing for me about him. David D. made me read books and concepts about more scientifical ideas than I did before. And he WAS crediting DaviD Deida ALL the time. I have heard his name as often as the word wuss.
If you don’t get to read and understand the concepts behind, you might succeed.
If you want to jump ahead to the practical
application section, go ahead, feel free. Just make sure that later you go back and get the theory stuff down: you should understand what
you’re doing if you really want to get excellent at this stuff.
Isn’t that right, Ross?
Now we can see: David D. only works really effectively if you take the bitter theory pill he took
Im just a newbie with a point of view. All this PUA bashing is not alpha male behavior. “He does this He does that” It’s just a bunch of garbage with no conclusion.
David D’s stuff maybe recycled info but who hasn’t borrowed information from others. Besides no two authors are gonna write obout a topic exactly the same way. Differant styles are going to reach differant people.
Part of learning is possesing the ability to colaberate differant ideas to draw your own conclusions. If you can’t do this than you’ve missed the entire point of the experience.
As far as SS goes. When I get the funds I plan on purchasing the program. Im sure that there is an invaluable wealth of information contained within it.
PLEASE HELP ME………………..
I’M VERY DISAPPOINTED! Seeing David working on both sides and cheating myself for money and business. I’ve just ordered a few of his other programs, and didn’t expect him to be also operating catchhimandkeephim, i felt cheated, i got his advanced material and it seems to be good so far but i’m very disappointed at his ethics, he teaches me to be a honest upfront person and he himself isn’t. Who is to believe?
I want to learn from an ethical person, not some scumbag! Is Ross Jeffries to believe?
I’m having self esteem / inner self problems, how would RJ’s program going to benefit me? I’ve read you have helped David D and many other PUA’s with self esteem, could your program help me?
I watched advanced, it was good, saw some parts over and over.
but Mastery was so damn boring except the guest iteriews, i have still yet to watch around 2-4 mastery dvds (been months) same with his c+f ..all bull fucking shit except the guest speaker part.
Steve:
RJ’s stuff is very good for inner game. The original unstoppable confidence tapes are really good and have most of the basic mental progamming exercises you need.
Beyond Confidence videos are okay, but get the UC tapes first. BC vids are very boring and non-structured.
Apparantly Ross has recently “cracked the code” and has solved all inner game problems, but hasn’t released a product that explains this process yet. Comments Ross?
Terrelite is a whiny suckass. People shouldn’t bash ‘gurus’and their programs because it hurts newbies “internal states”? Fuck that logic, anyone who’s that easily molded and shaped is probably isn’t going to get much of anything – let alone women – as long as he’s that fucking maleable. Really, you have a brain and can control what you think, you don’t have to absorb an opinion that you just fucking glanced at. Don’t base your internal states on criticisms on a board, base em on opening the door, walking outside, and testing whatever guru’s ideas for yourself.
I’ve heard DavidDe talk about experts who were “complete fruitcakes” he has met on his journey to getting babes. Is RJ one of them?
Only the THERULES type loserchix in their 30s-40s who have little chance of bagging an A+ man will BUY DD’s book.
DD is hurting himself with men clients by doing this. As MASTER Ross says, “It contains within it the seeds of its own destruction!” David will hurt himself this way. Why do what DD says if he is immunizing women to counter our new tricks. Imagine if he said to babes, if you hear “JUST STOP” – toss your drink in his face. Fear sells, but he’d be a fool to turn on RJ and others.
I Love it when RJ hears laughter at his clinics and says “I’ll take everything away from you if you do that again!” And the crowd shuts up!!! Try this on DD!
I’ve been to clubs where these 30s-40ish women are angry, ignored by men for sports screens. They bought THERULES without realizing that the gold between their legs had turned to copper with age. THESE women will jump to DD, will they convince Young Cuties to hop on as well?
The book is emailed I assume, so no condom-type buying humiliation is there.
The threat of DD is if he starts the mailing list machine with chix…they will be 30s women…20s babes are too busy and unstoppable. Women live for free, free phone chatting, free listings, free cover charge…if only women had to pay the same as men to get into clubs, it would rescue that scene…the mailing list is free.
Are women willing to read blatherings on screen rather than stick to magazines telling them ’10 ways to make a guy enjoy your farts and stringwarts?’
There is an opportunity here with DD’s turning for someone new to expand the art to go ‘open concept’ – the dating style being no dating style – like Bruce Lee postulated for Martial Arts theory…be water, ever adjusting…ROSS JEFF-LEE!!
“I want to learn from an ethical person, not some scumbag! Is Ross Jeffries to believe?
I’m having self esteem / inner self problems, how would RJ’s program going to benefit me? I’ve read you have helped David D and many other PUA’s with self esteem, could your program help me?”
Most definitely. But don’t take my word for it.
Go to the website.
http://www.seduction.com/resources.asp
or just to http://www.seduction.com
and click on Video Proof
I want you to scroll down to the last two videos, near the bottom of the page. One is about 8 minutes of me lecturing and demonstrating how to use your breath to free yourself of fear of women. The other is a very short video on the meaning of courage and confidence with women.
Also, you can look at the other videos as see guys who started out where you are now, telling how their lives have changed.
These aren’t guys who are great looking or who started out being great with women.
They got great by applying my methods.
Wonder why DYD doesn’t have any such testimonials on HIS site?
RJ
93/93