The PUA Challenge Is Answered!!!
April 21, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under News
Concerning the PUA Challenge Hypnotica threw down a few days back, Mystery (preceeded by an "!" for some reason. Does that mean "Fuck Mystery?" Who knows.) has finally gotten around to responding.
!Mystery writes:
BTW, sorry I didnt reply sooner but I had a bootcamp in DC and I dont do the online thing too much while traveling.If nobody accepts his challenge Ill do it, especially if the whole
thing could be broadcast somehow to the community – that way no matter
who wins we get the community going. But lets wait to see if anyone
will try him on before I do?Also, I would like to lower the prize – for both Hypnotica and I its
not about the money and if I DID luck out and win then Id feel bad
taking that much. I bet he’d feel the same. So how about $500. Its
still considerable but not so much. I also fear that with such high
risk for challengers they may not TRY just in case.Love !Mystery
Of course, the big surprize challenger has been the one-and-only mASF Granddaddy Formhandle, who’s apparently ready to flex his manly pecs on the West Coast for a change. =)
Formhandle writes:
I suppose word will get out soon enough on this … I mailed Eric a few days ago
in regards to the challenge. I’m sure once this is known, others will
not want to be out-done and we will all see a flurry of names wanting
to be challenger. Too fuckin bad, I’ve got my hat first in the ring and
plan to do this for the hell of it. I don’t even have a clue what
Eric’s plans are but anybody yapping their gums about any of this and
not actually stepping up to the plate is full of it.I was willing to do a similar thing ("challenge" LOL) at the Austin
Summit but nobody else stepped up. Hey, for all I know I will bomb a
big stinkeroo but at least can say my balls will cast a shadow over all
the "speculators".Now… does anyone know where I can get the cheapest weekend tickets from BOS to SD?
Love,
Jay
And Hypnotica has accepted both challengers.
Hypnotica writes:
First. I give formhandle huge credit, we emailed each other and will
plan to meet. He was the first to accept the challenge. Big balls on
his part. The logistics are next. Mystery seems interested and i agree
i is not about the money but the money makes it real for takers . I
would enjoy doing it for fun, free or just to be tasked by someone
eager like me. I applaude both these guys for stepping up. I wil stop
with these guys because i want guys that are go getters. Remember the 3
second rule. I don’t want anyone else, these guys proved to me that
they are willing to go for it.
So there you have it, first round in the PUA challenger is Hypnotica vs. Formhandle. Second round will be the winner vs. Mystery. Let’s see if we can’t get some details on when this thing is going down and what the rules are.
Maybe we should schedule some time on pay-per-view? =)
Williampneus on 
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DavidLop on 
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Formhandle will do it. But M will put so many conditions and come up with so many excuses that it will never happen. So its Form and Hyp…this will be VERY interesting.
Dont cry on my shoulder
Too true, the fact is why can’t the guy just enjoy having a good time? His reputation doesn’t hang on one night unless he lets it.
Naturally Mystery will add many additional constraints on the challenge that will make it impossible to judge. Besides he’ll probably put it off until after Styles ‘Game’ book comes out for some extra publicity.
I say we forget about Mystery and focus on the Formhandle challenge. At least Jay tells it like it is and doesn’t have such a big reputation to guard. Also didn’t Formhandle take up Mysterys challenge ages ago but Mystery just ignored it?
Did you guys pay attention to the excellent challenge Bishop proposed on Ross? That’s one I want to see so we can once and for all show how Ross can’t sarge and that the lies he bespoke on Bishop can be refuted once and for all.
Bishop:
“The truth is, if Ross wants to call ME a fraud, and attack MY abilities, and not give ME credit for the things I gave him that he turned into products, I’ll gladly pit my abilities against his. I welcome a one-on-one sarge off with him. No money, just a full apology for the lies and altered truths he was spewing about me in my absence, an admission to all the things I brought to SS in secret, and a bag of Skittles (Okay, so I’m selfish. Blow me!) This is not a “challenge” per se, as much as it’s putting HIS words about me to the ultimate test. If he stands by his claim that I made up the stories in “Bishop’s Journal” and that I’m a fraud, then this should be a non-brainer for him to want to do.
Either way, Ross loses. If he passes on my offer, he’s going to be seen as scared.If he takes me up on the offer, he’s going to be shamefully outdone. Hell, I’ll even do it in his own neighborhood, he can have the homefield advantage! I don’t even care if he “plants” women to try and win, I’ll STILL end up beating him!
There, I think I’ve effectively expressed MY confidence against Ross.
Now let’s see if he’s got the ability to take his face out from inside a certain little creature’s ass long enough to respond.”
Michael
“Bishop”
http://www.thundercatseductionlair.com/2005/04/bishop_mine99_a.html#comments
Is Neil Strauss nicknamed Style? I always pictured Style as a younger guy.
Speaking of “The Game” book, it had a release date of May 2005. I pre-ordered a copy from Amazon, and was looking forward to it. But now the release date has been pushed back to September. Boo hoo.
Maybe Neil wants to update the book to include the results of the exciting challenge between Hypnotica and Formhandle!
Alright you guys are just being silly – whats this “!Mystery will not accept and he’ll come up with excuses” crap. Please. Im the one guy in the community who WANTS a challenge. Ive been asking for like 2 years. I think its GREAT that Hyp stepped up to create his own challenge. And it DOES surprise me Form stepped up – its not about bravado – its about community spirit and I give props to him. Very cool. As for my having too many rules – thats just silly. Im the guy who took all those rules that went back and forth forever and simplified it to 5 sets of your choice over a weekend. We can make more complicated rules for later contests. Lets settle for that for now (I dont care if the opponent’s sets are day or night approaches or singles or group, just that the girls arent ugly – not an issue with Hyp anyways but lets rate the girls too as a part of it). I can run a standard photo routine on each to get photos – I can also wear an audio recorder for the entire night. OMG this audio would be MINT! Win or lose. Both Form and Hyp Im sure will play fair – hell, they are the only guys besides me who are stepping up like this.
So I accept the challenge of me vs. the winner. Nice. thanks for the op.
In fact, if you guys want, you can both come to Vegas and stay at my place for the weekend (one guest room, one couch if thats cool with you – otherwise hotels are pretty dirt cheap in Vegas) and Ill host the challenge (have one of my 2 GFs pick them up from the airport, drive em around, etc). In fact, you know I have bootcamps every weekend so maybe we can do it during the week – but Ill talk to my biz partner and we can schedule my bootcamps around this because its that important to me – and I can enjoy watching the games live (dont worry if anyone can be discrete its me haa). I will either compete against the winner right after so we can do it on the same trip or we can set my challenge in another city (I have many cities on my bootcamp tour if you check out my site at http://www.mysterymethod.com). Id prefer to do the challenge before a bootcamp because I lose my voice (for real – I havent had a singing voice in MONTHS because of bootcamps – guys Ive fucking TRAINED like Rocky for this) after each one if thats cool. Hyp, gimme a ring (call Style for my number) and lets get Style to watch too. He’s here in Chicago with me and he’s tandem hunting with a sweet little girl … in fact, he and she winged one of my students as he bounced a girl for food – and hopefully a fully monty). Another student went into a 3set and I winged and occupied a really amazing polish girl until he bounced his target out to some place where later I found out he ended up fingering her. Nice. And then he worked the bartender and over negged and got booted out of the club. Great adventure haa. Lovedrop bounced a 2set back to the hotel and then for food tonight. I lost my 2nd GF who traveled with me in the field and she’s not back yet and Im worried. I told my target in that 3set (who I occupied all night as I came and went to help push students into sets) that I was a pro PUA and she was fascinated. I ended up embracing her all night and kissed her goodbye without taking her # – nor attempting to time bridge her – I enjoy saying NO but I wont for the challenge haa. The night before I only did one set (well actually 2 but the first was a students and it didnt go perfect and I was planning on returning to the set later with social proof to rip it open but then I got stuck in the other set that lead to my target begging for my # 4 times before I gave it – made out with her too – photo in the lounge to come – students witnessed the set – style winged marvelously – thanks Style). There is no way anyone could POSSIBLY be more ready for this than me, so again, thanks Hyp, I look forward to this. Hows this for an additional prize: a trophy that says “I beat ” and the year. Fuck it Ill pay for it. Call it a business expense. Nice huh haa. I predict Hyp will have a “I beat Formhandle in 2005″ and there will be an “I beat in 2005″ one for either Hyp or me. I dont know what the winnings with Form will be but it should also include this trophy – or how about a medal that says that so the PUA can wear it when we meet up at DyD seminars and other PUA gatherings haaaa. Or a WINNING BADGE so I can have a PUA shirt with all the great community guys names all over it by next year haaa.
So lets keep the winnings open to negotiation because I dont want people to NOT challenge me because they fear great monetary loss or something. Whoever the winner is between Form and Hyp, Ill challenge them for PROPS and the $ is totally secondary – but I agree there should be SOME money exchanged to make it a REAL thing and not JUST A HANDSHAKE. And thanks Form for stepping up too. This is great. I am looking forward to this … FINALLY we get our first PUA-face-off. You DO realize this is NEWS WORTHY right? But dont let that stop anyone from challenging PUAs in the future because we can have any journalists (not that we will get them for the first few) not name real names.
Im fucking STOKED! Im so ready it BOGGLES. Guys, Im in Chicago doing a BOOTCAMP AGAIN. And I have 6 in a row coming! I approach groups for a LIVING.
If you cant do it in Vegas the truth is, Im so in for this shit that Ill come to any city just to watch the challenge and shake the hand of the winner (whom I will accept the challenge from heartily). Style, can you come watch this too? This is fucking NICE haa.
Ok sleep time. 5:20am now. Seminar day 3 starts at 1pm.
Guys, email me and Ill give you my # so we can organize this – well, I return to Vegas Monday so let me finish my bootcamp first.
Im so stoked! Seriously haaa. OOOOOOH we need to video this (for private if need be). If I lose, I will give up some money, a trophy, and eat humble pie and shake the hand of the winner and say “you beat me! RESPECT!” Word of warning: I play to win every set. A WIN to me is an mLTR, not just a lay. 5 sets? My goal … 5 mLTRs.
But an additional thought: you guys know I work cold rooms and build social proof by pawning off normal girls for hot girls. can I use pawning tactics … if I call out ahead of time who my pawns will be (they will be cold pawns and not warm pivots) and who my target is? If not that ok Ill do my best without them but the hottest girls are solidly gamed with social proof from adjacent sets as most pros know. Just wondering on this stuff, but Im not out to get too detailed – no matter what the rules are I accept the challenge – Again, thanks guys. Rock ON!
Love !Mystery
PS: Thundy, you dont have to be a judge but could you come and watch too (interview the winner for a live audio maybe) and youve got video equipment access right? Or can we get DREAMWEAVER to cover that?!
“So I accept the challenge of me vs. the winner. Nice. thanks for the op.”
This reminds me of the unreal tournament computer game, in which you have to fight the minions first before you can enter the lava pit arena against the evil overlord dr Robotnik.
What’s up with the exclamation mark anyway? *Someone* is ripping on my unique nomenclature…
Well I can do it too!
Hate !YouMeSex?
“Im fucking STOKED! Im so ready it BOGGLES. Guys, Im in Chicago doing a BOOTCAMP AGAIN. And I have 6 in a row coming! I approach groups for a LIVING.”
Which means your students are paying for your joyride and your practice.
“Great adventure haa. Lovedrop bounced a 2set back to the hotel and then for food tonight. I lost my 2nd GF who traveled with me in the field and she’s not back yet and Im worried. I told my target in that 3set (who I occupied all night as I came and went to help push students into sets) that I was a pro PUA and she was fascinated. I”
Two girlfriends? Well, you’re not the first guy with money, fame and connections to find women who tolerate that stuff, although none of this applies to your students.
Your students also aren’t being taught to present themselves as pro PUAs.
Let’s not even get into the edge of having a buddy like Style with his connections to the rock and porn industries.
Who are you trying to kid anyway?
Jason> I say we forget about Mystery and focus on the Formhandle challenge. At least Jay tells it like it is and doesn’t have such a big reputation to guard.
Im not guarding my rep – I have my rep for a reason. I deliver the fucking good month after month with a pretty damned consistent regularity. Ask ANYONE who has seen me LIVE IN FIELD. I’ll fucking SMOKE you. I win every set (where the target is a 9+ … I dont have the game to pickup 7s as I overqualify and NEG THEORY has to be watered down … I love the UG THEORY concept someone posted about once – if we had UG THEORY (how to get UGs) then MM would be truly complete but then again thats not exactly my interest haaa) I approach, stopping only as logistic failure (too many girls in my life and meeting girls in foreign cities without time for day 2s).
>Also didn’t Formhandle take up Mysterys challenge ages ago but Mystery just ignored it?
Jason, you are teasing right? You think I would ignore a challenge? Please. Im the dude who has been structuring challenges and nobody would compete for like 2 years! Its kickass that Hyp and Form do this – FINALLY Ill get to challenge someone! Ive been ready and waiting for AGES.
And Jason, you never met me in person. Anyone who has met me (talk to those who have) know a few things: I have a hot LTR, additional GFs, I am THEE BEST PUA in the known community, my game is almost SURREAL to watch, most of the top PUAs in the community do groups and were trained by me (and/or LIVED with me for a time) and I step up not only to AMOGs and go from Venusian to Martial if need be, but I also step up to ANY challenge.
>>”Im fucking STOKED! Im so ready it BOGGLES. Guys, Im in Chicago doing a BOOTCAMP AGAIN. And I have 6 in a row coming! I approach groups for a LIVING.”
Johnny> Which means your students are paying for your joyride and your practice.
Yes I enjoy demonstrating … and my students have to see what a good pickup looks like. Pacing, multiple group merging, body language (non verbal time constraints, body blocking, body rocking), tonality, and a shitload more are demo’d live. Many students tell me they didnt get it til they saw me work a set in front of their eyes. Watching my CONSISTENT kino escalation (I end up embracing the target in LITERALLY EVERY SET if not kissing) is a powerful thing to watch. Its not like I get to keep these girls. I have an LTR I love and besides, these girls I meet arent supermodels (the type of target I designed my game for) but mere normal hotties.
>>”Great adventure haa. Lovedrop bounced a 2set back to the hotel and then for food tonight. I lost my 2nd GF who traveled with me in the field and she’s not back yet and Im worried. I told my target in that 3set (who I occupied all night as I came and went to help push students into sets) that I was a pro PUA and she was fascinated. I”
>Two girlfriends? Well, you’re not the first guy with money, fame and connections to find women who tolerate that stuff, although none of this applies to your students.
You never met me dude. You are “pussyboy” excusing why I have the success I have to things like money fame and connections. Dude, you dont have a clue what I do infield. Why not get on the horn with some people who have been to a bootcamp and seen me perform LIVE infield? MAYBE, just MAYBE, I can do it in regular jeans, with no pivots or wings nor flash cash … ask the guys who saw me tonight. I was in jeans (day 3 I tone down so I can focus on students mainly). I didnt pull any flash cash (its only used really when a girl wants me to buy her a drink … I can say, “Who’s money is this? That’s right. Its MY money. Go buy your own fucking drink.” I had no need for pivots (my GF stayed in the hotel room) nor wings (Style left half a day earlier). I went into a 2 set, one over the obstacle, then worked the target and gave the obstacle to a student to work. So the ONLY thing that made me unique at all (it sure wasnt my black normal winter coat and jeans) were my goggles on my forehead (which I took off and pocketed when I sat down). I used STORIES to convey my personality. I barreled through difficult kino escalation issues and did some pretty harsh freezeouts to get her to turn around and start to chase me. It was nothing but clear SKILL that pulled this girl around tonight. You’ll read the eye witness testimonials soon enough.
>Your students also aren’t being taught to present themselves as pro PUAs.
My identity is an ILLUSIONIST … a PERFORMER. The PUA enriches my life, it doesnt define it. Dude you havent fucking MET me. You are in the dark right now. And on day 3 of my seminar I do a module on building a strong identity. A PUA must be MORE than a PUA. He must possess an identity whos stereotype conveys attractive characteristics all by itself and then the pua must CONVEY that identity within 3 minutes of approaching the set. And we have TEN points for conveying it systematically that ROCK. Some of my students are surgeons and brokers and medical students and such. Im not out to make their identitys magicians or PUAs. They are their own men. And they convey who THEY are. And if they dont HAVE an identity I work to get them on the path to finding one that draws the type of women they prefer. Believe it or not, MM is a lot smarter than you think.
>Let’s not even get into the edge of having a buddy like Style with his connections to the rock and porn industries.
Are you telling me I cant get girls without my wing? You’re shitting me. Dude, you have no CLUE what I do. You are sitting at the side lines.
That said, maybe it would be cool if both Jason and Johnny met me in person. I do free 2 hour seminars in various cities. I also speak at lair meetings. Come meet me. You’ll discover Im a down to Earth no nonesense guy and very approachable. And maybe you should meet up with some of my former students and sarge with them. You can learn a thing or two and they too can learn a thing or two from you. Always good to meet other PUAs. That way we dont have to look foolish spouting misinformation and opions based on conjecture from having never met someone. And when we meet, of course I will forgive the skepticism. Afterall, you HAVENT met me and the testimonials on my site DO seem almost too good to be true. But if you meet me in person, your skepticism will be put to rest with all the other once-skeptics who finally met me LIVE.
BTW, I agree The One is a good choice for arbitrator. I think Style is too, at least for the Hyp and Form challenge anyways.
!Mys
>Also didn’t Formhandle take up Mysterys challenge ages ago but Mystery just ignored it?
Jason, you are teasing right? You think I would ignore a challenge? Please. Im the dude who has been structuring challenges and nobody would compete for like 2 years!
———
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=6&mn=1095842891178023
“Yes I enjoy demonstrating …”
On the AFC’s dime, who wouldn’t?
“and my students have to see what a good pickup looks like. Pacing, multiple group merging, body language (non verbal time constraints, body blocking, body rocking), tonality, and a shitload more are demo’d live. Many students tell me they didnt get it til they saw me work a set in front of their eyes. Watching my CONSISTENT kino escalation (I end up embracing the target in LITERALLY EVERY SET if not kissing) is a powerful thing to watch. Its not like I get to keep these girls. I have an LTR I love and besides, these girls I meet arent supermodels (the type of target I designed my game for) but mere normal hotties.”
Exactly: the women you are teaching these guys how to get are women you consider throwaways compared to your LTR, who lives with you. Does she pay rent or do your AFC students pay it by paying you? Does she or does she not have an economic interest in your financial success?
On the FS boards you were asked why a g/f wouldn’t dump you if you’re doing workshops. You remember what you said in response?
Your own lifestyle says you put your LTR way above the bar skanks. Your own teaching talks about “health, wealth and relationships.” You’re getting your wealth from your students and that wealth (plus the status as a guru) makes you more appealing as an LTR.
“And on day 3 of my seminar I do a module on building a strong identity. A PUA must be MORE than a PUA. He must possess an identity whos stereotype conveys attractive characteristics all by itself and then the pua must CONVEY that identity within 3 minutes of approaching the set.”
In other words, you talk about building all that stuff that has nothing to do with your game.
I wrote: Two girlfriends? Well, you’re not the first guy with money, fame and connections to find women who tolerate that stuff, although none of this applies to your students
“You never met me dude. You are “pussyboy” excusing why I have the success I have to things like money fame and connections.”
So if I don’t bow down and help pay for your LTRs I’m “pussyboy?” Do you know they don’t want your money because they TOLD you? Chicks FLOCK to guys with money and connections, and in this case the money is provided by those AFCs you teach to chase women you yourself have said are way inferior to your LTRs.
You might be able to get laid without money, but getting your LTRs without it is a much different story.
“Afterall, you HAVENT met me and the testimonials on my site DO seem almost too good to be true. But if you meet me in person, your skepticism will be put to rest with all the other once-skeptics who finally met me LIVE.”
If I did, you sure wouldn’t be calling me pussyboy to my face.
It’s one thing to be alpha, and another to be an alpha whose bills are paid by those he teaches to be alpha.
I see Ray Gordon is posting on these boards.
Wolfsbane
Other good choices for moderators:
Lovedrop and Riker
“Other topics Peter covers in his clinic include moon phase tactics, food plots and management strategies, foul weather bucks, reading a deer’s body language, back yard bucks, finding wounded deer and more!”
Sounds like back turns, false qualifiers,
jealousy plots, false time constraints.
Must be Mystery’s long lost deer hunting brother.
THE DEER HUNTER
don’t know the “!” in mystery? Man you are missing out on one of the greatest standup comedies that was ever aired! It’s by Russel Peters. He went to South Africa where he found a guy with an exclamation mark in front of his name. Do an online search of it.
I hereby accept Hypnotica’s challenge.
My only condition are that it take place in July or August as I have no other time due to very busy travel schedules and that Hypnotica refrain from using any Speed Seduction(R) patterns, techniques or methods.
As for a fair, impartial referee/judge, I nominate J-Dog from Arizona PUA. He’s a big SS fan but he also uses other methods to break the ice in his club/group game.
I also hereby challenge David DeAngelo to a $10,000 winner take all competition along the same lines. Even though he’s 10 years younger and at least 2 points above me on the looks scale, I will offer him a 2-1 handicap; I must do at least twice as well as he in order to win. Again, J-Dog would make a fair, impartial judge. If I win, DeAngelo agrees to put a huge banner on his website for 60 days: Speed Seduction(R) kicked my ass and he donates the $10,000 to Best Friends Animal Sanctuary.
If I lose, I fork over the cash and put a free banner ad for DYD on my site for 60 days.
DeAngelo, step up to the plate and stop hiding behind forums where you control all the questions and all the answers.
Hmm, I’d like to believe this is actually Ross posting this, but even if it is I cant see David D agreeing. You could always challenge Bishop instead..
I’ll be handling all wagering on this contest. Jimmy the Geek’s official odds will be posted shortly but so far the buzz for favorite is the granddad of all seduction Ross Jeffries at 2-1, followed by Hypnotica at 3-1, Mystery at 7-1 and the longshot is Formhandle at 20-1. DYD will probably be Scratched. Stay tuned…
“I nominate J-Dog from Arizona PUA.”
J-dog is far from impartial. He just finished a diagram FOR Ross on “vibe” so to say he is IMPARTIAL, is unbelievable. There really will be no impartial judges anyway because there is no such thing as objectivity, only lesser degrees of subjectivity.
“He’s a big SS fan but he also uses other methods to break the ice in his club/group game.”
Why dont you post THAT message on the Speed Seduction list and show us how much you’ve progressed in YOUR learnings as a teacher.
What’s with the 20-1 odds on me? Can we make it 40-1 so some of my friends can reap some cashola?
I predicted elsewhere that others would only jump into the challenge after I took the step. Glad to see my predictions are still accurate
As far as impartial judges, let’s be serious, guys, and have some peeps with real objectivity and not some biz agenda on the line or a scenario where people might think that. Such a person would also need to be in the background, I seriously don’t want to be c-blocked by a well-intentioned but intrusive judge.
Love,
The Penguin
New ODDS:
Ross Jeffries= 1-5 favorite
Hypnositc=3-1
Mystery= 10-1
Formhandle= 38-1
I offer myself as one of the judges. I excel at undercover and work privately since leaving the force. Have hidden cameras up the zazou!
(with more contestants can offer exactas and perhaps tri’s so step up PUA’sL: Styles, Arthur Sloane, John Alanis, Bish, Riker etc.etc.etc.)
Hypnotica?
Formhandle?
Where the fuck are you guys?
The Master is awaiting the Winner. So let’s make this happen.
MysteryRules!
P.S. MYSTERY IS THE WORLD’S GREATEST PICK-UP ARTIST!!!
what about formhandle vs hypnotica vs mystery pu challenge?
Who would win in a fight? The Hulk or Superman? When I was a little boy, this question, and questions like it, concerned me.
Well well well. I may get to see you motherfuckers square off after all.
Count me in as interested in this contest.
I’m am going to laugh my ass off if RJ kicks the shit out of all of you, (providing the previous post was really him) after all the shit everyone gave him.
PLEASE you guys make sure this contest is something others in this community will be able to peruse in one way or another.
Oh and howcome I don’t see Style jumping up to accept… OH! wait. He’s a Seductionist with a Girlfriend. Nevermind.
April 21, 2005
DOH…!
Did this ever happen by the way or was it just more talk…
wow you know with so much compitition out there why not through in some rivals
Ross Jefferies vs. Mystery
Zan vs. Style
Gunwitch vs. Formhandle
Hypnotica vs. Rasputin
David D vs. Juggler
Steve P vs. Matador
talk about clash of the titans
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