DYD Mastery Recap, Day 2
May 4, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
Hey everyone,
Glad to see my recap of the first day got such a great response. I appreciate all types of feedback, the good and the bad, so keep it coming.
As I’m writing these reviews, I’m often reminded of watching a movie trilogy of some type. Usually, the second episode in a movie series is the darkest of the storyline, and I guess it’s no different here, since Day Two of the seminar was definitely the worst, in my opinion. But like all good stories, it has to get bad before it can get good, and when it does get good (and boy, does it!), the highs are higher than you ever imagined.
So with that in mind, here’s my recap of the second day of the DYD Masters seminar. I tried to keep things balanced, but I’m sure my disappointment at this day will come through loud and clear. Keep in mind, most of what I’m writing are my own personal views and opinions on things, and shouldn’t be taken as fact or reflect what the final DYD product is going to be like. Just so we’re clear on that, let’s get on to the meat of my recap…
Day 2
The Good
So Day Two of the Double Your Dating Mastery seminar rolls around, and everyone meets it with a great sense of excitement and optimism after the high of the first day. Of course, Tyler and the other RSD instructors present were visibly tired from their late-night workshop that most likely ran into the wee hours of the morning, yet they were still present to learn some of the great new concepts David D was sure to share with us that day.
David D didn’t disappoint. He had tons and tons of great information to cover. Nothing really groundbreaking or new, but solid info that’s more than good enough to recap.
One of the major concepts Daivd D introduced, and this was something I’ve been hearing from Swinggcat for the past year, was that in addition to making friends with 5 guys who are good at meeting women, you want to make friends with at least 3 very attractive women. Attractive, as in, attractive to YOU! David D talked about how having attractive female friends can help out a guy on so many levels, and he went on to talk about how people make other people their friends (for the TRUE losers out there who really have NOBODY in their life).
David D broke this down to having some sort of “Inner Bond” with them. He listed six characteristics that can help create this inner bond. A lot of what he had to say dealt with finding or creating commonalities between people. Things like “having a common oppressor,” and “sharing secrets” and the like. I found this section interesting because it is really fascinating how people make friends with each other, and why some people are friends and some aren’t.
David D also talked about “Honest Signals” and how you can communicate to women that you are being straight with them and genuine. This harkened back a bit to David X’s talk the night before, but not too much.
The next topic up was on Approaching, a subject I’m very interested in as you all know. For the most part, David D talked about ineffective approaches and what men do WRONG when first talking to a woman. Things like trying to get approval by giving it, calling and writing too often, giving too much, selling far too in advance, and not paying attention to the woman are all things that can botch an otherwise good approach. But the most interesting thing he talked about in this subject were the signs that a woman is looking for a man.
Basically, if an attractive woman seems unhappy, it’s often connected to her relationship, and this means she’s open to other men who may present a better choice for her. He also pointed out that if an attractive woman continues to spar with you when you’re teasing her, it’s usually a big signal that she’s happy and available. I’d like to get more into this, because it’s fascinating stuff, but you’re going to have to buy the course to find out more. (suffer, dudes)
David D shared with the seminar attendees his 5 foundations of success, which were: Language, Communication, Sales, Marketing, and Public Speaking. He elaborated on all five of these principals and how they relate to all aspects of life, be it women or business. In talking to some of the marketing gurus that were in attendance at the seminar, I got the impression that marketing is not much different from meeting women. You have a target/customer, you communicate and entice them for your product, and you get them to want to have it.
Finally, David D shared with us his age-old concept of “Reverse Rapport.” This goes back to the old days when he used to post on Cliff’s List as Sisonpyh with his concept of “breaking rapport,” which would put the burden on the other person to try and gain rapport in the interaction. Reverse Rapport is basically when you say and do the opposite of what someone might do who’s trying to make someone like them, but all in a sarcastic, overly serious way that assumes rapport.
Overall, David shared some kick-ass awesome stuff with us this day. But unfortuneately, all the good stuff quickly got forgotten about once the guest speakers started…
The Bad
Okay, so I covered all the Good that took place on Friday, the second day of the seminar. Now it’s time to touch on the bad, and overall, Day 2 was probably the WORST day of the seminar, bar none. It really had nothing to do with David D himself, especially since he seemed to be loosening up from the day before and not snapping as much, though he did have a tendency to harshly make fun of a few of the seminar attendees on stage, but that didn’t happen often enough to make it a big deal.
Where the whole thing started to unravel was with the two Guest Speakers that were there to share their views on Dating, Seduction, and what have you. Now, I’m a pretty open minded guy (at least, I like to think so), but these two speakers really tested the boundaries of my bullshit limits. It was so bad, that many of the invited speakers were seriously considering not coming back for Day 3, especially since a good deal of them did not like David X’s interview all that much.
The first blow was with Tari, who’s Interview CD came out last month. It’s obvious why women go for him. He’s an archetype I’ve seen many times before. The cool, aloof, artsy, woman trapped in a good looking man’s body. He’s very much the Dandy, but the type of Dandy that women fall in love with, marry, and wake up ten years later to find that he’s been pumping other dudes in the ass all along while lying to himself that he likes chicks.
Seriously, this guy was G-A-Y. Even three dollar bills would have thought this guy was way beyond a flamer. Up on stage, he announced to everyone that he’s a self-professed metrosexual. Which is okay, I guess, but when you combine being a metrosexual with limp-wristed wu-wu mentality, you get a dude straight out of West Hollywood, which is exactly where this Tari guy seemed to belong.
I had heard a bit of Tari’s interview the week before, as Swinggcat played it in his car as we were on our way to a club. He sounded Gay even then, with his effeminate voice and soft spoken-tone. His voice almost reminded me of Orion’s to a certain extent. But that parallel with Orion didn’t stop there. After listening to him speak, it became clear that Tari would make the perfect poster-boy for “Rapid Romance.”
His philosophy was very much about telling women how you feel and express yourself to them. He does have a bit of cocky/funny and other tactics in his game, but this stuff is so basic, it made people’s eyes roll. Pretty much the PUA equivalent of listening to a kindergartener reciting his ABCs.
The part of the interview that this was most obvious was when Tari turned to the audience and said “Here’s something that I’ve just discovered which is truly amazing. And that’s that the more women I’ve been with, the more I realize that… all women are bisexual!”
This caused more than a few groans in the audience. The dude’s big revelation was one that has been talked about in this community for years, and he’s just now coming to that realization? Did he even bother to listen to the DYD Advanced Series with Rick H? Most likely, it’s not that all women are bisexual, it’s that most of the women he’s with are lesbians who mistake him for a hot chick.
Tari also continued the David X tradition of joking about ass fucking, which had a slightly different connotation when Tari did it because most of the guys in the audience were getting the impression that he’s been pumped more than once in his time. He talked about an inside joke he and a friend of his came up with regarding UPS’s add campaign “Where will Brown take you?” and how they related it to anal sex after a session of “healthy banter.” (One of my favorite quotes of the seminar was someone who said “Men don’t have Healthy Banter. If you have Healthy Banter, you’re a fag.”) His friend was dubbed “The King of Brown,” since apparently he gets so much anal sex. Tari never clarified whether that anal sex was with women, though.
This sparked a big in-joke within the crowd about using the word “Brown” to refer to things or other guys as Gay. “Oh, those shoes are so BROWN!” “Yo bro, that joke is BROWN.” “Hey man, you putting your cock in my ass is much too BROWN for my liking.” “This guest speaker is totally BROWN.” You get the picture.
Anyway, David D tried to make a joke of it and get away from the ass fucking topic, but Tari seemed to persist like it was his favorite thing in the world (I wouldn’t put it past him). The rapport David D had with Tari made his interview with David X seem like they had known each other for years. It was obvious that the two of them really had nothing to talk about or connect on. Finally, David left the stage and let Tari ramble on. Tari had a few good things to share, but he was creating a lot of confusion in the audience because much of it seemed to go against the David D philosophy on so many levels. It was almost like listening to a chick talk about what she likes to do with her girlfriends.
Tari also talked about how he is a dancer, and how that gets him lots of chicks. I could almost imagine Tari busting into the club “Brian Boytano” style with his chick-magnet rallying cry of “I’m STHUPER! Thanks for ATHKING!” The worst was when he talked about how he made a living, which was selling journals on e-bay. These were big, bulky, leather bound, Italian, hand-made journals which David D was helping him hock. One of the marketing guys there dubbed them the “Harry Potter books” since they seemed like they were a prop from the movie. However, no one cared about them. It was something that girls would love to buy, but straight guys would have no interest in.
As Tari rambled on, most of us in the audience were suffering through his chick-logic induced thought patterns. When it finally got to the point that the seminar attendees got to ask questions, Tari became even more useless as he wasn’t really able to answer anyone who questioned him with useful information. Finally, David D got him off stage and gave the audience a much needed break.
During the break, me and a few other guys talked about how bad this speaker was, and how it simply couldn’t get any worse than Tari. But things were looking on the up and up with the next guest speaker, which was a really hot little blonde woman. Many people thought this was Marie, from David D’s interview series, and were really looking forward to hearing her speak. Unfortunately, we were all dead wrong.
The woman was actually a girl named Amber (I forget her last name). She was a former assistant to Tony Robins and also in good with a guy named David Data, who wrote a book called “The Way of the Superior Man.” She was dressed in an odd little black corset which prominently displayed her breasts. Amber definitely knew how to move her body (she moved like a stripper), and exuded a definite sex appeal. In fact, I was rather turned on by her… until she opened her mouth, that is.
The interview started off with some playful banter between her and David D, who created some sexual tension by moving the lavaliere mic on Amber’s bodice from one breast to the other. Then David got into the interview and let Amber loose upon his audience, and it was not a pretty sight. Honestly, most of us didn’t think it could get much worse than Tari, but we were wrong. Dead wrong.
Amber is a woman, through and through. But she’s not a cool woman. She’s the kind who belongs on some hippy compound somewhere bathing in patchouli stink while braiding her armpit hair. A total New-Age Wu-Wu. She rambled on and on about energy and charkas and all kinds of other stuff. There were mumbles going through the audience from people saying things like “What the fuck? This is the reason I left SS,” and other rumblings.
Things just continued to degenerate when David D left the stage and Amber started taking the audience through Yoga exercises designed to make us “feel our male integrity.” She had us bend our knees, put our hands over our head, and move as if we were “pushing through honey.”
If the audience had gotten confused with Tari, it was with this speaker that the audience just got totally lost. Everything she was saying was so far out there and contradicted so heavily with David D’s teachings, that everyone was just getting frustrated and confused. She even told everyone “I don’t agree with Cocky and Funny.” She even had David D saying he regretted the philosophy of Cocky and Funny and that he’s actually trying to get away from that concept.
I don’t know if he was pandering to his guest speaker at that moment, but that’s where most of us just lost it. In our eyes, Amber had no credibility what so ever, and David D was quickly losing it as well. The worst thing about Amber was that she was coming totally from the place of a woman, and made no attempt to sympathize or even understand the male way of thinking.
However, the best part was when an audience attendee got up to ask a question and started tooling Amber with Cocky/Funny tactics which totally negated any of her views that C/F doesn’t work. He asked her a very logical question about how to deal with women on a conversational level when they ask what you do for a living. Amber asked him:
“What do you do?”
He responded:
“I work at Taco Bell.”
At this point the entire audience erupted in laughter. Finally, someone had reattached their balls and was standing up to this idiot on stage. Of course, this went right over Amber’s head.
Amber: “You work at Taco Bell?”
David D: (recognizes the joke) “Uh, I really don’t think he works there.”
Student: (acting slightly ashamed) “Yeah, you’re right. It’s only a part time job.”
More laughter.
Amber: “What is it you really do?”
Student: “I have a PhD in Sexual Therapy and Sciences.”
This is, of course, what Amber claimed to have. More laughter. It was funny that Amber decried the believability of Cocky and Funny as a tactic to get women, yet when this student pulled out the C&F, she looked like a dear in headlights. Like we always say, it’s not what women prefer, it’s what they respond to, and Amber, despite her declaration to the contrary, was responding to the Cocky and Funny.
At this point, David D could see the tide was turning against his guest speaker and shut down the questions. Amber wanted to take us all through yet another yoga exercise. Many people had had enough. This is the point where me and a group of other people decided to leave the seminar room in disgust.
The Ugly
As you can tell, there was a lot of ugly going on at this day of the seminar, mostly to do with the guest speakers. Mystery was absent this day, so I don’t know what he was up to. I was thinking he didn’t feel like showing up after the NEG David D threw his way the day before, but more likely, he had better stuff to do before his presentation the next day.
When I arrived at the seminar room that morning, I was late (again). Why these seminars start so early in the morning, I’ll never know. But when I got there, I saw Major Mark in the lobby talking on his cell. I sat down and joined him. It seems there were some problems with Steve Piccus coming up that day. Mark told me that David D had screwed him out of a hotel room and Steve was pissed about it and considering not coming up. From what I learned later, there was just a misunderstanding between a few people and it wasn’t David D’s fault at all that Piccus did not have a room. Things eventually got worked out. Mark also told me about a trip he’s planning to Bangkok for the summer, and how his wife wants him to go with some of his buddy’s and have some fun. We talked a bit about how nice it must be to have a wife who wants you to fuck other women.
The bulk of the Ugly came from Amber’s stint on stage. Many people were extremely disgusted with what she was sharing with the guys at the seminar. One of the marketing guys I talked to told me he couldn’t understand what the fuck David was thinking by putting her and Tari up on stage, because he completely lost his audience with them.
A few people even dubbed the seminar “Double Your Menstruating” after seeing the crap Amber was pitching at everyone. It might have been a different story if David D had set the stage for her talk a bit more with some new concepts, but he didn’t, rather, he just put her up there to wreak havoc on the masses.
Some of us had a theory that there were some “sexual favors” at work when trying to figure out why David D would put her on stage. Some people thought that Amber had seduced David D in order to get on one of his products so she could start building her own client base for her relationship consulting business. Another theory was that David D was supplicating to her and got her up on stage in an effort to get her to sleep with him. Many people did seem to think that Daivd D was much too “wussy” around her. I don’t really believe either theory, though they are interesting to entertain.
Most likely (and this is my personal theory on this situation), this was just a further attempt by David D to undercut what MINE’99 is doing with SS and the direction that is going. I think there is a small subsection of people who buy into Yoga and all that New Age crap as a method of Seduction, and by including Amber, David D was hoping to take that market away from MINE’99 by including it in his “Double Your Dating” Philosophy. However, seeing that the Yoga and New Ag Wu-Wu junk just keeps alienating people from SS, I can’t see why David D would want to incorporate anything like this into his method.
A friend of mine also overheard David D talk about how he’s probably going to have to edit the guest speakers from Day 2 completely out of his final product. I wouldn’t be surprised if all of Tari’s stuff hit the cutting room floor, but a lot of Amber may be kept in, since he talked about her and continued to reference her stuff through days 3 and 4. My recommendation to all of you is that you skip that part of the series and move on to Day 3 stuff once the product hits the streets.
My Experience
Overall, I had a great experience on Day 2 at the seminar. My chat with Major Mark was a nice one, and I find the guy very engaging to talk to. I also went out to lunch that day with a marketing guy I met at diner the night before and he gave me a lot of great advice for my ebook.
It wasn’t until the guest speakers came up that I started hating life. Tari was bearable, but the Amber speech destroyed any interest I had in the seminar. I know that after that day, if I had paid to be there, I’d have demanded my money back.
After the seminar, some friends and I all went out for diner and discussed how we couldn’t believe how bad the speakers were. We often discussed what David D must have been thinking getting them up on stage.
Afterwards, we all went down to Venice Beach and hit up a club down there, where we had a number of drinks and a few good sets. One interesting thing about these seminars is that your game, for the short term, actually suffers. It’s like information overload and you’re just sick of doing this stuff.
We ended the night around two o’clock, and I went home to go to sleep, hoping, praying that Day 3 of the seminar would be better. Hoping that things couldn’t get any worse than the Friday seminar.
Luckily, my prayers were answered. In fact, they were far, far surpassed, as I felt day 3 of the seminar was the best one there was!
To Be Continued…
***If you’re interested in Double Your Dating, you can find out more about it by clicking here.
DYD Mastery Recap, Day 1
May 3, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
Okay, it’s Monday, it’s another week, and I’m back from last week’s Double Your Dating Mastery Seminar. And boy, do I have a LOT to report on!
In fact, there’s so much to report on, that I’m just going to take the whole week and blog on this sucker. I’m not going to go into any specifics on the material David D. came up with, because I signed a release form before going into the seminar, but I will touch on the generalities of it.
Most of these reports are going to focus on the Guest Speakers and their material, some insights into the audience and how they responded to the material, what happened after the seminar, my own personal experiences at the seminar, and some of the drama that went on behind the scenes.
There’s a ton of great material to get into. Today, I’m going to go into some detail about day 1. The real “meat” of the seminar was on days 3 & 4, and there was definitely a lot of great stuff to talk about.
So anyway, onto the seminar…
DAY 1
The Good
The seminar took place at the Four Points Sheraton Hotel out near LAX. This is a really nice hotel on the inside, though from the outside it leaves a little to be desired. The seminar started off on a Thursday, and was going to go for a marathon 4 days! It was a bright and sunny morning on April the 29th, 2004, so things were off to a good start.
On day one, David DeAngelo made it clear that this was going to be a different type of seminar than what we are all used to. The material he covered on this day dealt a great deal with that sticky wicket that every aspiring “Ladies Man” has to deal with – namely, inner game.
But this wasn’t just inner game in relation to women and sex and whatnot. This was inner game relating to ALL areas of life. Almost all of his new material had to do with success in life in general, and not just with women. Most of this was directly applicable to business in particular, as some of the psychology behind it is applied to all types of endeavors.
One of the bolder things David talked about was the “Dark Side” of human behavior/consciousness/psychology/biology. “Dark” in the sense of how we as humans move through the world and let it affect us. One of his primary concepts in this part of the seminar was that of “Projection IS Perception.” Meaning that what we project onto the world is how we perceive it, not the other way around.
He also laid out a great method of success in any endeavor, that being:
This means that you plan out your course of action, you execute the plan, you study the results of your actions and make the corrections necessary, and finally you act on those corrections. This is a cyclical plan, so after Acting, you revert back to Planning and do the whole thing over again.
In dealing with the Dark Side, David D. also got into the Psychology of the “Wussy,” a mainstream term he’s coined to replace the more common acronym of “AFC” (Average Frustrated Chump). “Wussy” is defined as a cross between a “wimp” and a “pussy.” This was an extremely interesting section because David broke down pretty much every behavior and all the psychology that goes into being a lame-ass in all areas of life.
David then went on to talk about “weapons of influence,” and various concepts that people can use to influence others. But the best part of Day 1, in my opinion, was David’s talk about how to have long term success with women, and long term success in life. Namely, this came down to having a “Life Purpose,” or “Life Path.” Most men do not have a life path. They don’t know where they’re going, and because of this, their life is out of control, without focus. He made it clear that in order to have a life path, you must never let anything become more important than that path or purpose, especially women.
He also went into a great many marketing concepts, and shared his own personal philosophy about how to be successful, that being that success is the idea that you’re helping other people become more successful. This is evident in how he structures his seminars with guest speakers, most of which have their own philosophy and products to sell on the subject of dating and seduction. He’s basically being extremely generous by sharing his large client base with other businessmen in exchange for content. This is important, because it makes a clear distinction between DYD and other Seduction and Dating systems, that distinction being that DYD is NOT a complete system of Seduction, Dating, or Pick-Up, rather, it is an all-encompassing philosophy behind male/female interaction and self-improvement in life. This is one of the reasons Double Your Dating is so interesting in terms of seduction study, because it presents you with EVERY type of information that’s out there, and allows you to choose what you want to learn.
This can be a good and a bad thing. David D’s own system doesn’t extend much past the “cocky/funny” philosophy of interacting with women. But at the same time, it’s that philosophy that is the foundation for a great many other methods that are out there. The good part is that by David DeAngelo incorporating other people with different methods and philosophy into his seminar, he helps make up for the shortcomings in his method. However, because he does that, DYD has no “concrete” structure per say, and some of the guest speaker’s own philosophies and tactics can contradict what David teaches.
The first guest speaker of the seminar was the elusive David X, the Canadian Pick-Up Superstar associated with Cliff of “Cliff’s List” and the “Be Relentless” philosophy.
When I first met David X, I was quite surprised by the man I saw. He is not what you would expect of a typical “Dating Guru.” He’s short, he’s fat, he’s got beady eyes, a large gap in his teeth, and he smells a bit like sour cigars. In fact, due to his appearance, your first reaction to him might be “There is no way in hell this guy can be a pick-up artist!”
But then you talk to the guy, and you start to get a sense of what he’s about. David X is a guy who is not held back by the concept of “social niceties.” In fact, he’s quite brutally honest and in your face with things. He has the belief that he’s an awesome guy, that all women love him, love sex, and by default, love sex with him (lol). In fact, his whole method can be summed up in two words:
Be Fearless.
David X says that the one common denominator amongst men who aren’t getting laid is a fear of women. This is a fear instilled by society, by family, by women, and by other men. It’s an irrational fear that does not exist. Part of this fear comes from the fact that most men don’t know what they want – in women and in life!
One of David X’s biggest insights was the concept that “If you can’t think for yourself, you think for someone else.” This was a very profound thing to say, in my opinion, because it deals with David DeAngelo’s concept of projection. Basically, this means that whenever you allow fear to control your thoughts (and buy into the values and ideas that society forces upon you of the way men have to treat and interact with women), you project those fear-controlled thoughts onto other people, even though that may not be what those people are thinking.
For instance, say you see a woman with lovely, large, beautiful breasts. You want to comment on them, but you don’t because it’s considered “rude.” However, what if the woman spent a lot of money on getting those big fake breasts, and she’s proud of them and insecure about her looks? What if a compliment on her boobs is just the thing she wants to have, and will fall all over the first man who will give it to her? See the distinction? By being honest with your thoughts and feelings, you could very well get what you want instead of deciding for yourself what the woman is going to respond to. One thing he liked to point out was: If you can’t understand women, why are you trying to think for them?
David X spoke about how men get self-conscious about looking at women. They think looking at a woman makes her feel uncomfortable and that they shouldn’t appraise them noticeably. However, David X was sure to point out that women want to look good for men, which is why they spend so much time in the bathroom getting ready. Therefore, you should rejoice and celebrate a woman’s beauty, and not be ashamed of enjoying it.
He went on to say that being a real man is knowing what you want and going after what you want. He pointed out that men are naturally emotionally weaker than women, and that we shouldn’t accept that and go along with it. He said that the weaker you are emotionally, the more the manipulators grab you. He likes to say that “You can teach a stupid guy, but you can never train an evil woman.” Therefore, don’t be manipulated. If the woman doesn’t enjoy sex, leave them. Don’t believe what women (the stronger sex, emotionally) say. Set your focus, your goal, build YOUR fantasy, and then GO AFTER WHAT YOU WANT!
David X suggested starting low in terms of women in the “looks” department, go for girls you can get at your current skill level, then work your way up.
David X’s belief is that you have to act like a man in order to get a woman. Part of being a man is knowing what you want out of life and knowing where you’re going. There are 3 basic things you need to embody in order to do that:
1. Honesty
2. Trust
3. Respect
The biggest part of David X’s method is “Be Honest With Women.” He points out that lots of guys approach women without representing the truth. He encourages guys to think out loud and tell women the truth. His basic defense of this theory is “What do you have to hide for?” Telling the truth demonstrates having strength. Women want to feel your strength and want a guy who knows where he’s going. This equates to them feeling taken care of.
David X talked about having a sense of humor, and about how in order to have a sense of humor, you have to be yourself. But by “being yourself,” this means the “yourself” that isn’t inhibited by your fears. The notion of “Fear” is not a part of who you are, rather, your raw thoughts and feelings are what make you up.
David X ended his interview by talking about how a man’s biggest problem is his biggest fear, and the only way to overcome that fear is deciding what you want, and not feel bad about wanting it.
If you’re interested in personal coaching by David X, you can email him at david@be-relentless.com, or call him up directly at 514-935-7914. You can also contact his business partner, Cliff, at cliff@be-relentless.com and visit his website at www.be-relentless.com.
The Bad
As with everything in life, there is a dark side, and not all was peaches and cream at the DYD seminar. One of the things that was very noticeable right up front was the tension among David D’s staff. It was obvious to a great many people the staff seemed to be walking on eggshells around David, who routinely snapped at them over tiny details (in front of his audience, no less).
The audience was also put off by David DeAngelo asking the everyone hold their questions and ask them later on. Many people felt this stifled any dialogue or free exchange between teacher and student, and made it seem like David cared more about staying on schedule than making sure his audience was learning. However, I can say after hearing a few questions this audience asked, it’s probably a good thing he minimized his interaction with them while on stage.
David D. also seemed quite irritable with his audience, snapping at people who would come in late from the break or what have you. Obviously, people are going to need to go to the bathroom and get out of their seats for various reasons. But then again, this was a product he was making, so I can understand why David wanted as little outside interference as possible during the production. However, that didn’t make it seem any less rude. Most of the people at the seminar were paying to be there, and I personally thought this was in bad taste to yell or snap at them. I am happy to say this behavior subsided as the seminar went on.
Probably the biggest “Bad” to speak of was David D’s delivery of his material. His voice is very bass-heavy and monotone. Most of his presentation is the projection of powerpoint slides and him reading from said slides in a very business-like manner. This can get exhausting to listen to (and for those of you who have listened to his advanced series, you may know what I’m talking about). This was never more apparent than when he had a guest speaker up, most of which were more animated and interesting to listen to.
Another big bad was the lunch available at the hotel. The hotel offered Box Lunches going for upwards of $20 a pop. From what I heard, the food wasn’t all that great. David allotted an hour for lunch. It would have been nice to have a bit more time so some of us who wanted to go get food elsewhere could do so without being rushed. This wasn’t a big deal, but after being cooped up in a seminar room for a couple hours, we needed some sunshine and fresh air.
The Ugly
The first day had a good many “Pick-Up” dudes in attendance. Offhand, I recall seeing the Real Social Dynamics boys, namely Tyler Durden, Papa, and Twentysix. Swinggcat and Merovingian were also in attendance, along with Little Big Dick, Craig (who’s archive is on mASF), and the one and only Mystery.
The presence of Mystery was an interesting one, because there was definitely some tension associated with his presence. Mystery is known to have an ego not only about his status, but his method as well, so the fact that he was basically in the same seat as one of David D’s students probably caused a little insecurity. This wasn’t more apparent than when Mystery disagreed with one of the things that David D was teaching and spoke up about it. David D quickly NEGed Mystery on his views, and then ignored him. It was hard for Mystery to retort to someone social proofed on stage with a microphone without coming off as Beta, and indeed, Mystery looked like he’d just been scolded by the teacher during class. Afterwards, it was apparent Mystery had lost most of his interest in the seminar and spent his time working quietly on his own theories and ideas at his seat. Most likely this instance will be edited out of the finished product, but it is something that was interesting to watch.
The biggest “Ugly” of the seminar came when David X took the stage. There was obviously no rapport between David X and David DeAngelo as the two struggled to find their stride through a rather awkward interview. David X started off the interview joking about how the microphone he had reminded him of a dildo. David D. tried to play it off, but the dildo jokes continued until DeAngelo decided to nip it in the bud and have a lavaliere mic placed on everyone’s lovable foul-mouthed pick-up artist.
David X looked quite uncomfortable on stage. He was wearing dark sunglasses and fit awkwardly into the narrow chair David D had for him. In a way, with his rotund belly and open shirt, he looked a bit like you’d imagine the Comic Book Guy from the Simpson’s if he owned a Porno Store. David X’s humor was rather blue, (blue enough to make Andrew Dice Clay blush, if that’s any indication). Most of his jokes were peppered with references to women’s boobies and ass fucking. The audience was laughing, but it was more laughing at David X than with him, which is a shame because he had good things to say. Plus, as the interview went on and the jokes got more and more raunchy, David D became visibly uncomfortable as he was probably thinking how the hell he was going to edit this rather poor interview. I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole interview was cut out of the final product, but I doubt it, since there was good material to share and it wasn’t all bad.
But the David X drama didn’t end there. Many of the better known Pick-Up Artists in attendance were shaking their heads in disbelief for the most part when it came to David X and his methods. Many of them had a hard time believing he gets laid. Others believe he gets laid, but mostly by women who open beer bottles with their peg legs and spend their time counting what’s left of their teeth, if you get my drift. That, and the fact that David X is married cast a real shadow on how field experienced his is.
David X also didn’t do himself any favors by joking about how he didn’t know why guys had to study this dating and seduction stuff. He said that, to him, it was mind boggling that there were guys who actually existed that NEEDED to study this type of thing. This was bad for two reasons. The first was that he alienated his audience who are obviously a group of guys who WANT or NEED to study this stuff. Strike two was that this comment was a bit incongruent with the fact that he’s being presented as a dating guru who teaches guys how to get laid through personal coaching. He often bragged about how his students used to never get pussy, and after he graduated them, they went on to have more sex than they could ever imagine. Yet the very statement that he was above the guys who needed to learn this stuff undermines his pride in his students.
Another problem with David X was that after the first day, he wasn’t seen again until after the seminar ended on the last day. His absence may have been because he was visiting friends in LA, but the other guest speakers managed to hang out with the audience and offer advice and counseling for free. His absence conveyed to many that he was either afraid to be around guys who were interested in testing his abilities, or he simply didn’t like hanging out with guys interested in learning how to pick up women because he thought they were a group of losers. Either way, his absence didn’t go over well in my opinion (hell, even Rick H, one of the flakiest guys out there, showed up for 2 days).
Major Mark was also in attendance the first day of the seminar, sitting by Cliff of Cliff’s List fame in the back of the room. Major Mark was sporting a new look that included a pony tail and goatee with thick eyeglasses. It was a more hippy looking than the image we see of him in all the SS products, and it took me a second to recognize him. I got to talk to him briefly at the breaks, and he was a very engaging guy who had a lot of great things to say.
But no where was the intricate social drama more apparent than during the VIP dinner David DeAngelo treated his invited seminar guests to that night. When I picked up my VIP badge at the beginning of the morning, it was accompanied by a rather nice gold invitation to join him for supper. This meal took place in the hotel restaurant at the biggest table available. David D sat at its head, and Mystery sat at the opposite head. Tyler Durden, Merovingian, and a few others gravitated to David D’s sphere, while other invited guests (who were of the non-PUA persuasion) were at the other end of the table enraptured by Mystery and his talk of Dating and Seduction. I was at the middle of the table with Major Mark, David X, and Swinggcat, along with a few internet marketing gurus who were at the seminar as guests of David D’s.
The most noticeable thing was the way David X and Major Mark regarded people like Mystery and Tyler Durden. They looked at them with a slight air of snobbery, like these young punks were fakers that didn’t deserve to be at the table. Major Mark often referred to Mystery by his SS-inspired nick-name “Misery.” The good Major also went on to talk about his prowess with women, and he and David X expressed how lame they thought it was to hang out with men all day long instead of being with women. At this, Tyler Durden spoke up, playing a subtle mind game with the two by disagreeing with them and making the two men qualify to him in their arguments. This, of course, was only picked up by Swinggcat and I, who were in the vicinity of the conversation and knew the tactic Tyler was using.
Major Mark also tried to distinguish himself by saying he’s the only hypnotist at the seminar, which Tyler slyly undermined by pointing out that Swinggcat was a skilled hypnotist as well. Swinggcat and Major Mark then got into a conversation about how Mark used to flame Swinggcat when they were both on the SS List. The two had never met before, and seemed to enjoy sharing their experiences in the “Rapid Romance” camp like two old veterans exchanging war stories. Major Mark then went on to tell us all a good deal about his experiences with MINE’99, which he asked me not to repeat on the blog. I’ll leave it to your imagination what he had to share with us. =)
The dinner went on, and Tyler informed me that David D has regular dinners like this during the seminar that get more and more exclusive as they go along. Obviously a subtle way for Tyler to let me know where I was on the totem pole, but I didn’t care. I was just happy to be there in the first place.
The dinner ended with David D paying the check and rushing out of there like a thief in the night. He said he had a girl waiting for him. Some of us had a theory that he was rushing to the “real” VIP dinner, but most likely he was rushing to relax after being surrounded by PUAs and “Dating Talk” all day.
After that, I got to chat with Craig briefly who was going out with the RSD guys who were taking students out for workshop that night. Merovingian, Swinggcat, and I ended up staying at the hotel for a bit longer and shooting the shit until we decided to call it a night and go home.
My Experience
Overall, the first day was a great experience. I showed up a bit late, due to the fact that my alarm didn’t go off. But during that time I got to meet David X, who also showed up late, and I chatted with him for a bit out in the lobby until David D took his first break. I thought the information David D shared that day was excellent stuff, and was surprised at how different it was from other stuff I’d heard. It was much broader in scope than other Dating products, and really dealt more with over-all life strategy and inner game understandings than anything else. There was also a lot of great business advice that was shared during the seminar. I just barely scratched the surface of what was covered in this recap here. There is TONS more info that I can’t and aren’t even able to talk about.
On a personal note, I quite enjoyed meeting David X. I found him to be a really funny an engaging guy when I was talking to him one-on-one. He’s a great storyteller and had a lot of good things to say. He’s quite the natural who is only marginally aware of what he does, but he seems to be able to train guys to emulate him. I can see that he’s successful with women, because he seems like a fun guy to be around. He’s also married, and he told me his wife is a great woman who gives him blowjobs whenever he wants, so he doesn’t feel the need to go out hunting for pussy all the time. One thing I really liked about his system is that it has a “graduation” method where he actually tells guys that they’ve gotten to a point where they no longer need his help. He claims that everyone he’s graduated has gone on to have amazing success with women. I want to believe him, because I like the guy. I’d be interested in taking some coaching sessions with him and see it for myself. Hopefully, I’ll be able to interview him before he leaves LA.
I also noticed that the production of the seminar was grade-A first class stuff. David D had stages set up, a large projection screen, professional audio technicians, and a professional video crew there taping the whole seminar. He was well prepared and his presentation was quite professional, even if it was littered with little bugs and technical difficulties. I had heard that David D was actually LOSING money putting this seminar on, because it was such a production, but the money he’s gonna make off this thing will more than make up for it, I’m sure.
One complaint I had was that he handed out legal pads instead of notebooks with copies of the powerpoint slides in them like he had in Chicago. But he made up for this later by offering the slides on CD for free. It didn’t help the writer’s cramp I got while jotting down notes, however.
I found the hotel to be pretty nice. The seminar room wasn’t too big, but it certainly wasn’t small. I actually expected a bigger audience to be at the seminar, but having a smaller group there was probably better for logistic purposes.
I also had a good time catching up with all my friends who were attending the seminar. After the first day, there was a buzz of excitement that this was going to be something vastly different from what we originally expected it to be. And overall, it was a fun time. I looked forward to Day 2 with a great deal of excitement and anticipation, expecting it to get even better than it already was…
But alas, when it came to Day 2, that was NOT the case.
To Be Continued…
***If you’re interested in Double Your Dating, you can find out more about it here.
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