The Truth behind Misogyny

Someone by the name of finalD brought up a very interesting topic on the General board of mASF. He wrote a very long, well thought out post about his feelings towards women that kind-of struck a chord with me, because it was a view I used to have in my darkest days of AFC-dom. But it seems I’m not the only one his post hits home with, though I think almost all men go through a period of “I hate women,” just like almost all women go through the “I hate men” phase.

finalD writes:
I’m not 100% sure if this is a proper question to ask of this
forum or not, but I’m going to give it a go anyway, and see what comes of it. I’d appreciate any advice in the matter.

Relative to many participants here, I’m a bit older and more experienced. (So far, I’m not much wiser, though.) I’m 38, and have had the opportunity, through endeavors such as teaching in institutions of higher learning, to observe young women and young men in “action” against one another. I’ve seen some happy hook-ups, some dreadful manipulation, some underhanded shitty people and some befuddled clueless AFCs and some people who just luckily fell in together because they were genuinely nice and interested in one another.

Unfortunately, one thing that I’ve been able to observe, and I really can’t say this is some subjective point of view by which my own interpretive strategies are to blame, is the fact that females are evil.

No, really. Their interest in human congress, as far as I can tell, is all about whether or not they can PUSH someone else’s buttons; not about whether or not the pushing will bring about a desired result, whether for the good of themselves (which would be Machiavellian, but at least directed at some sort of plan that THEY could defend) or for the good of the target (which would be an unlikely form of altruism) or for the good of the whole world (which we all ought to be striving toward). I’ve just finished Muriel Spark’s “Far Cry from Kensington,” in which the overall theme is the nature of evil, at least in the form that she presents it in this one novel, and it all comes down to a pretty clear assessment, that the act of controlling other humans in order to simply see whether or not you can control them, is evil.

And that’s what young women — all women, as best I know — want to do. For them, the “thrill” they get out of life, is exactly stealing another human’s autonomy. This somehow makes them feel good — no, I won’t even say that. It doesn’t even make them feel good. It just is something they have to do. Like a dog that is running around and around chasing its own tail, it doesn’t “make the dog feel good” or give him a “sense of power over the tail,” it is just something he’s stuck into doing.

I go further. In young adult situations, females tend to hold themselves to MUCH lower standards than do males. If you see a group of young guys hanging out together, what are they talking about? Well, it could be sports. Or it could be computer programming or Frogger and Doom. Or it could be the books they’re reading for their philosophy class. Generally, the guys talking sports will either become overweight Chris-Farley-type buffoons, or grow out of it; and the computer guys will take those skills and make a fucking killing (which pisses me off, but that’s a different issue ). And the guys talking ideas will continue to talk ideas, probably inviting the other dudes into their conversation.

But if you see a group of six or four young chicks hanging out together, what are they talking about? Prada bags and how to control boys. If you see a group of six or four middle-aged chicks hanging out together, what are they talking about? Prada bags and how to control boys. If you see six or four old damned drop-titted toothless quilting-bee queens hanging out, what are they talking about? Prada bags and how to control boys.

It’s depressing. Don’t they EVER want to RISE to a HIGHER CALLING? I know that they CAN. I have seen it myself. Often, I bring it out in them. I ask them about the books they’re reading, and they bashfully admit “I really SHOULD …” and, if I’m going to continue fucking them, they turn off “Friends” and actually try for a while. Of course, once my dominant influence is out of their lives, they go right back to chocolate and “That Seventies Show” and wonder why their existence is so empty. I have heard, that many people simply recognize a female’s capacity to do the “good” stuff but incapacity to “drive” herself, and try to become her Pygmalion — willing to FORCE her into decent behavior (whether that’s about not manipulating; or about moving on from adolescent self-indulgence).

But I’m uncomfortable accepting the Pygmalion role. If women are capable of decency but require men to demand it of them, then aren’t we simply saying that on a different level they are inherently indecent in the first place? I mean, obviously, one act of decency is CHOOSING decency for yourself, on your own, rather than waiting until someone else requires that you choose it. And further, the whole notion of how much power Pygmalion genuinely has over his partner — that’s a vexed issue. “My Fair Lady” and all its other manifestations all make it pretty clear that the true nature of that classical myth is that the male learns much more about himself; so, let’s not assume here that the female is so easily controlled and “directed towards good” as all that.

Anyway, you will obviously see what I’m getting at with this post. I’m learning, through intelligent and probably fairly objective analysis, that women are bitches. I generally do’nt like them.

But I want their hot little bodies in my bed. This misogyny is, no doubt, miscoloring my inner game a lot. I find that the “gruff exterior” of someone who really doesn’t like the chicks who are coming on to him at the club, gets me to first base pretty quickly. I am that guy who walks in and kind of dismisses the room in a grand gesture of contempt, thus causing all kinds of hotties and semi-hotties to groom their hair, look my direction, and twiddle their drinking straws. So I can attract, innitially, with a display of diffidence or disinterest. But in the latter stages of interaction (like, a few hours later) I find that the women I’m meeting really just plainly disgust me. Whether or not I’ve met them at a club, I look at them and think, “You’re a waste of genetic material. You need a different set of chromosomes to be a better person.” (Is it the men or the women who are XY? Can never remember …)

Obviously, this whole complaint of mine is predicated upon the capacity to judge. “Don’t judge other people” is one solution to the problem. I’m an ENTJ (Myers-Briggs personality type testing), and my “J” characteristic (“judging” as opposed to the live-and-let-live “perceiving”) is one of the most highly pronounced of the four. There’s no “fixing” that propensity. And anyway, I disagree with the whole concept of “don’t judge other people,” we’re all doing it all the time, it’s just that the Ps are lazy about basing decisions on it. Anyway, that’s one problem with my point of view, that people have pointed out, I’m being judgmental (grr, even the word bugs me). One possible weakness in my thinking.

I’ve heard many others:

+ Only hot women are like that, and you’re seeing more of it because you are only trying to interact with hot-looking women. They’ve had a lifetime of getting whatever they want without deserving it, and so you should realize that they haven’t ever had to LEARN decent behavior.

+ To them, you probably seem just as manipulative and problematic. They don’t like you any more than you like them.

+ Not all women are like that, but in the highly socially conflicted arenas in which you initially meet people (dance clubs, etc.) their worst traits sometimes come out, and they behave in these dreadful manners because they’re scared and/or flighty and/or something else.

+ You should try meeting people at different venues. Young girls in college, and at dance clubs, are there BECAUSE they want to be bitchy and manipulative. They’re all in an “out-manipulate-one-another contest” against their little cock-blocky cunty friends.

+ Whenever you meet someone, their behavior is a mirror of your own. You’re meeting these awful people because you’re bringing out their awful behavior in them, you’re somehow pointing out to them that they should be princessy cunts, either by
(a) being overtly masculine in their presence, thus instilling the enlivened but inept side of their thought-processes in their femininity
(b) being a dickhead, thus making them want to drive you away from them by means of whatever seems most offensive to your particular personality type.

None of those arguments — or the several others that I’ve heard — is false. They’re all logically convincing. Unfortunately, none actually alleviates the misogyny. Despite someone PROVING logically that I shouldn’t be so negative, I still FEEL negative about attractive females. And believe me, I’ve seen some shitty stuff. I’ve had the opportunity to watch like a fly on the wall, as the women in my graduate level, my college, and my high-school classes worked on the boys there. And yes, the women were categorically awful humans. Really, don’t dispute the evidence, it’s there and it’s undeniable.

Thing is, every one of those refutations, and others, has the hole in it, of the following:

I’m seeing hideous behavior from women, and therefore I dislike women. And yet I don’t want to dislike women.

What I need is some kind of mental circular trick, some NLP device or something else, not REASONING, but FEELING, to make me LIKE the manners in which females behave when they’re being princessy cunty bitches. I need to learn to LIKE princessy cunty bitchy behavior. Is this possible? Can you help?

Maybe I just hold myself up to excessively high standards. Maybe most men are just as princessy, maybe most humans are having a much better time with a lot less Puritanical prim propriety holding them back as they look at their own, and others’, behaviors and approve or disapprove on a grandly philosophical scale. I find it disappointing to move down from the grandly philosophical (although I’m hardly a Puritan, or even prim), the whole point of this question is to NOT lose the grand, the ideal, the superior, the better, the standards that I ENJOY seeing people live up to. When I find chicks who CAN, I am all the more turned on. Don’t tell me I have to lower my standards?

You can read the whole thread here.

It’s funny, because I think this is an issue that affects a lot of guys. I have a theory that most guys who hate or resent women, are usually the most hopeless romatics. From my experience, especially in upper to middle-class America, there are a great deal of men who are not very agressive with women. There’s a great deal of the male population that buys into the whole idea of chivalry, and proving themselves to a woman they care for. For most guys, I think it’s natural for them to express their feelings to a woman they like. To want to buy her things and talk to her and learn about her and share their feelings with her. I think it’s natural for guys to want to shower a girl with compliments and have fun with them. But the reason most hopless romantics begin to hate or resent women is because the reality of it is, the stuff they WANT to do, the stuff that is NATURAL for them to do, just doesn’t work.

In short, the romatics constantly have their illusions shattered by reality. And that hurts.

It hurts bad, and men begin to resent women because of it. They group the entire category of women into that “hate” place due to their experiences with a few. I know this because I am an incredibly hopeless romantic, and I USED to feel this way because I had been hurt by girls so many times. It goes back to that whole concept of “Loath what you can’t have,” I think. But because I study seduction, I’ve gotten some incredible insight into women and why they act the way they act, and in a way, that understanding has completely turned around my way of thinking, not only about women, but about myself as well.

It has helped me to realize all the lies that I accepted about how interactions between men and women are supposed to be. It has helped me to understand that what I was doing was wrong, and that it wasn’t the girl’s fault, it was mine, because my actions and my views were skewed to be COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.

Women are the way they are. They all share certain common psychological training based on their nature as females. But they differ in what experiences they had while growing up and developing. But even those can be broken down so that the girl can be categorized. That is why the study of seduction is so helpful. Once you get into this stuff, you can begin to recognize certain behavioral comonalities ALL women share and learn to exploit that.

And this exploitation isn’t necessarilly a bad thing. It’s just a shift in your way of thinking as a man. To me, it’s becoming natural to do what the girl RESPONDS to best, as opposed to wanting to do all those things to get her to like me. I can still give into those urges to share my feelings, or buy her gifts, or what have you, but it has to come on MY terms, and at appropriate points in the interaction.

And once you get to the point where you start to see results, and you understand why women act the way they do, you start to like them much, MUCH more.

And then you can be as romantic as you want. =)