The Doctor is in (the Asylum)
March 2, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Analysis
So I’m reading the latest edition of the AskMen.com dating and relationships column, written by the one and only Doc Love, and I just feel like I gotta say something about this.
Anyway, here’s the mailbag:
Les writes:
Hey Doc,I started dating Erin in August 2002. We had about five or six dates, but were otherwise seeing other people and things were moving very slowly.
In December, she asked me to go to New York for New Year’s Eve. We went, had a fantastic time, and then things took off more seriously. From that point, we both decided to date each other exclusively.
I fell in love with Erin and she fell in love with me. We went on a number of trips together and I treated her like gold. She was good to me in return, though I would have preferred it if she were more of a Giver.
All in all, she is a fantastic woman and has the kind of values that I want in a life partner. However, I can see now that to some extent, I wasn’t much of a Challenge as time went on.
We are both conservative and would never live together before marriage, so moving in with Erin was never an issue — it was always when and if we were going to get married. And marrying her was something I was mentally preparing to do, but I was just waiting for her signals to become more clear.
About two months ago, I noticed subtle changes in her behavior. She did a few minor things that indicated she was losing interest, so I asked her if that was the case. She assured me this was not so, and being in a state of mind where I heard her say what I wanted to hear, I chose to believe her.
Well, one day out of nowhere she suggested that she needs “time apart.” Not being a total idiot, I said time apart wasn’t for me, and I defined my boundaries quite clearly and said if she was committed to me, then great, but if she wasn’t, then we should stop seeing each other altogether and just end things like adults.
She did not like me setting my boundaries so strictly because I suspect they were rather unsettling for her and not convenient for whatever it was she was trying to achieve.
Anyway, for the past six weeks I’ve been trying to distance myself from Erin (a painful and difficult experience). Over this same time period, she has shown up at my house (unannounced) to “visit my family” when she knew I was there, she has called me numerous times and has sent me a number of e-mails.
Initially I was sucked into these antics. On one occasion, on my deceased mother’s birthday, Erin’s sister was giving birth that same day. She called me and was upset, so I took a pizza to her house to cheer her up.
On another occasion, I accidentally bumped into her when I was out with a (female) friend for a drink. Every encounter with her is totally awkward and draining, and last week I reiterated to her that I wanted to stay away from her until she has some clarity about what she wants, and in the meantime I’m going to get on with my life.
Given that I genuinely love this woman and care for her deeply, what would you recommend that I do? I can’t allow her to treat me like a revolving door, but I don’t want to entirely shut her out if she is somehow trying to extend an olive branch without coming right out and saying it.
As we all know, women are best judged by their actions, and right now hers are rather inconsistent (which implies low interest). I know I can’t do anything to control her, but when she contacts me again (which she inevitably will, either in person, or by phone or e-mail), what is the best thing for me to do?
So that’s the sob story. Pretty cut and dry situation where the girl feels superior to the guy, the guy suddenly exherts himself and cuts her off, and the girl starts to chase him again to revalidate herself. But here are Doc’s responses…
Doc Love writes:
Let’s clear something up right out of the chute. The decision to “date exclusively” wasn’t made by you and Erin together. She decided to date you exclusively. What have I told you guys in the past? We pick, but they choose. Big difference, and one you shouldn’t lose sight of. And why did she make that decision? Because you managed to drive her Interest Level up into the 90s. At least for a little while…
Okay, so the whole thing starts off on the bad foot. We pick, but THEY choose? Wow, talk about an AFC mentality. This goes down to the crux of the issue with many guy’s interactions with women, and part of the thing this community and the tactics taught within try to combat — FRAME CONTROL! Why do we have to let the girl CHOOSE? If you look at most naturals, the guys who are INCREDIBLE with women, they are the ones who choose. The woman has to be good enough for them. Not the other way around. When you come from the frame of mind that the woman has the power to choose, you effectively give up any power YOU may have in the interaction because your basing your actions on what pleases and displeases her, when what most guys really need to do is come from the frame where she has to base HER actions on what pleases and displeases you. And the fact that the good Doctor is coming from this frame shows a lot about his medical training, IMHO.
When Erin told you she needed time apart, you should have said nothing. You should have smiled and walked out. You don’t sit there and give her your game plan, you don’t tell her how you feel, you don’t tell her what you’re going to do — you leave. But you did all this stuff. And in her mind, it was another wimpy form of begging.
Now, I agree and disagree with this point. I do think it’s rather powerful to say nothing and walk out on a girl, but I don’t think this was the right context to do so. That’s the sort of thing you pull with a shit test BEFORE you’re in a relationship to demonstrate value. But this guy had been seeing his girl for a while, and getting up and walking off would have looked more like he was avoiding/ignoring the issues she had. I think him laying out CONCRETELY and POWERFULLY what he wanted and then telling her to hit the road if she wasn’t with the game plan was a very powerful thing to do, because it demonstrates CONFIDENCE and a WILLINGNESS TO WALK AWAY. A kind-of “You need me, I don’t need you” frame. And I think it’s because he did this that his girl ended up chasing him afterwards. If you noticed, it actually sounded like her interest level began rising again after he walked away from her. What do you guys think?
Anyway, the Doc goes on…
When Erin informed you that she needed her space, that was it. Finito. The end. You hit the magic number: 49%. Of course she’ll play with you like a cat plays with a mouse at 40% to 49% and give you a little false hope, but when it hits 39%, she’s in the arms of another guy.
Uh… this still comes from the frame where the woman has control of the relationship. In my opinion, her having control was the problem in the first place. Remember the part about her not being giving? Well, that’s because she wants a guy who takes a strong lead and TELLS her what to do. Once Les walked away from her, he took that strong lead and she responded to it. If a girl wants to leave, then let her leave, move on. But her sitting down and talking to him was really a way for her to give him a chance to get her interested again, not to break up. But Doc seems to miss this point completely.
But whoa, wait a second here — you got tough and set some hard boundaries that really bothered your girl, huh? Sorry, Les, but she wasn’t really upset. It was just a little smokescreen she threw up that had nothing to do with anything. She was grabbing at something, anything, to indicate her low Interest Level. (The problem is, women never come out and say it. “He lowered my Interest Level due to his deportment,” is not something you’ll ever hear tumbling out of a lady’s lovely bee-stung lips.)
So what happened to all those tight boundaries when Erin showed up at your home? Why didn’t you just duck out? Why didn’t you tell her you were going to the kitchen for a second, then walk straight out the back door and come back at midnight?
Because you wanted the torture. I just hope you haven’t answered any of her phone calls or e-mails. I have a feeling you did, though. Know why? Because you took that pizza with the works over to her when she didn’t even ask you to. A huge, huge mistake. Les — you’re delivering pizza? Aren’t you a little embarrassed, at your age, to be a delivery boy for a girl who doesn’t want to possess you?
Now, I agree about the pizza thing, but I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Regardless, Les did fall back into the frame of wanting this girl and letting her control the interactions. But I think Doc’s analysis here is WAY off. Is it just me? Am I crazy? “Make an excuse and then run away.” — This just seems like bad advice.
Anyway, the article goes on. You can read the whole thing in it’s entirety here. It was actually tough for me to get through, because I so disagreed with the Good Doctor. Guess it just goes to show you don’t need to be good OR right to make a living off of Seduction.
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