How To Treat Women When A Sarge Goes Bad

**Reposted from the first Lair, original date: 12/31/03

Okay, so let’s talk about something that will inevitably happen to everyone who actually gets out in the field from time to time, and that’s what to do when things go bad in a sarge.

This was a topic that was brought up and caught my eye on the SS list before I got Kicked and Banned from it. There was a guy who basically asked what you do if you go after a girl at a place you frequent, mess up, and keep seeing her again and again at that location and feel awkward about it.

This really comes down to two things in my opinion:

1.) Field experience
2.) Ability to read body language and IOIs

Something that comes with field experience is learning how to guage the level of interest the girl has with you. If she’s dropping Indicators of Interest (pupil dialation, logical rapport building questions, lots of kino, etc) then chances are good she will give you contact information, like a number, if you ask for it. Lots of guys will go for the number close after they have mild interest from the girl, and will continue pushing the subject after the girl refuses, which only reinforces their position NOT to give you the number.

One thing I try never to do (though sometimes I slip up and do it anyways) is ask a girl for her number. The guys who are good at this that I have observed rarely ask for any contact info. Often times, they will leave it up to the girl to ask for their number or offer her’s. Sometimes they have to prod the girls to do it, but if the women are interested, they’ll follow their lead.

One thing you don’t want to do is keep persisting like perviously mentioned. That’s too strong a sign of neediness. Best to let it blow by if they refuse and end it with a “Pleasure meeting you.” If she does frequent the club regularly, then chances are you’ll run into her again eventually anyway so you’ll have another chance at meeting her. This is something I know the mighty Zan does all the time. He will NEVER ask for a number, and simply relies on seeing the same girl again as a way to re-establish contact.

One thing most guys will do if they mess up with a girl is to ignore them if they see them again. I think ignoring girls who’ve snubbed you in the past is a bad move. I personally will at least go up to them and do a short set, re-esablish contact, be friendly, and move on. Let them know that their rejection did not hurt me and that I wasn’t just after the lay. It’s also a “gentle persistence” tactic I’ve picked up from watching a few other guys operate. Primoman is VERY good at this. If they see you/talk to you enough, you become harmless in their eyes and can fly under their radar, so to speak, and renew the sarge.

So what’s the best way to keep from messing up a sarge? Well, probably the best way is to know your shit! But since field work is really the only way to do that, you’re gonna have to brush up on the theory. Basically, you can do a couple things to prevent mess-ups from happening, but they all have to do with:

1. Raising your value
2. Creating a need for your validation within the girl
3. Creating challenges and obstacles for that validation

The best method for doing this in my opinion is the Swinggcat Method, but Mystery Method is also very good at this type of thing, which is probably why I rate them as the two best systems out there right now.

Where most guys often mess up is with the “creating challenge” part. Your average dude starting this stuff might try some inactive disinterest tactic where he walks around acting like a player in the hopes that the girl will notice and be enraptured with his “player-hood.” This very rarely works since most girls will assume you’re not interested if you aren’t talking to them, and if you haven’t captured their attention enough to chase you, they will generally leave you to your own devices.

Basically, offering challenges comes down to being difficult with a girl the same way a hot girl would be difficult with a guy who’s chasing her. Little things like not doing what she wants, teasing her, cracking jokes about her, takeaways, intentional undermining, and not taking her shit go a long way to creating this challenge. You can even get more advanced and create those “tension loops” Swinggcat talked about in his last newsletter, which are excellent ways of creating challenges.

You see, the distinction isn’t that you’re creating challenges for HER to overcome in order to get YOU, rather, YOU BECOME a challenge to HER normal view of reality, and that intrigues her to figure you out. If a girl percieves a guy as being a “player,” I’ve found they’ll simply opt to let him play his games while she finds some other chump who’ll play her’s. However, if a guy can successfully destroy a girl’s current reality and suck her into his reality where she has to struggle to understand his actions, she will start the process of attraction right then and there, and that’s basically what challenges are meant to do.

Another area where guys can mess up doing this stuff is in Day-2 game, where they get back together with the girl. Many newbies have trouble overcoming the “date” frame where they take a girl out. They just simply don’t know what to do differently and end up falling into AFC-traps from before. All I do is ask them to join me for an activity I’m already doing. You still are technically “dating” the girl, but just be sure that you aren’t paying all the bills (I say keep it to under $30) and its an activity that you like to do anyway, regardless of how she views it. She’s just a guest tagging along with you. You also want to use multiple venues in your outting as a time distortion tactic to build trust and comfort, rather than just staying in one place the whole time.

That’s what “structuring opportunities” is. Its simply giving her chances to be with you. But rather than putting it in the frame of “I want you, please go out with me,” you want to approach it as “I’m gonna go have fun and you can come if you want.” This is a trick I picked up from my buddy MasterClass, so props to him for sharing the wealth! =)

Okay, enough inane rambling for one post. Hope some of you get something from this.

Thundercat