Know Your Material!
May 12, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Tips & Tricks
Okay, listen up you humps! I gots me some words o’ wisdom for ya.
KNOW YOUR MATERIAL!
Seriously, guys, this is important stuff. I think the line between failure and success is crossed by guys who know their material as opposed to guys who just “wing” it.
When you think about it, this is true in all areas of life, right? Let’s say you want to be an accountant. you have to know math, right? You have to know all the different accounts there are in the business. You have to know how to keep records. You have to know everything there is to know about taxes. You have to know how to work a calculator and a computer. You gotta save reciepts. In short, you gotta know your shit! That can be said for ANY profession out there.
What if you guys spent as much time memorizing and rehersing the material you see here as you did memorizing and rehersing the skills you needed for your current profession. Do you think you’d start to see results?
So many guys out there are boring snubs. They have nothing interesting to say. A lot of what we study in thsi community is based off of what Naturals do. Guys who are naturally good with women are GREAT storytellers. They may not be aware of it, but they are. I had a buddy of mine in college who was a great story teller. And each time he’d tell a story, it’d get better and better, and more and more elaborate, until it was one of the greatest stories you ever heard.
That’s what we do. We learn stories to engage other people. Some people think it’s “fake” or “unnatural” to learn canned material to repeat to women. The thing is, Naturals do the EXACT SAME THING, they just aren’t aware they’re doing it whereas we are. That’s the only difference, really. But if you don’t know your material, you’re destined to keep floundering on your road to pink abundance.
So what material do you need to know? This is a question I get asked a lot. In my opinion, every PUA worth his salt needs to have 3 things:
1. A Structure
2. An Understanding of Concepts
3. Memorized Routines
I’ll deal with these in order. The first is structure. If you don’t know where to go in the interaction with the girl, you’re going to lose her. If you know what you have to do and where you want to take your target, you’re going to have a much greater chance of getting her there. The best structure, in my opinion, is currently The Mystery Method. It’s an excellent break-down of how interactions should be played.
The second thing is Concepts. Obviously, you need to know what you’re doing and why it works. All the structure in the world won’t get you anywhere if you can’t grasp the concepts you need to employ in order to get that structure to work. Personally, I think Swinggcat has some amazing concepts that when employed, are incredibly effective. Things like “Tension Loops,” “Intentional Undermining,” “Reality Sucking,” and “Meaning Coups” are quite effective techniques to understand.
If the Concepts are the broadstrokes, the Routines are the scalpel/percision strikes. Routines spring from Concepts, and are the things that will get you your desired result. For my money, Tyler Durden has some of the best routines and continues to come up with great ones on a daily basis. The problem with routines is you gotta MEMORIZE them, and if you don’t understand the purpose behind them, what they are meant to do, and where they fit in your overall interaction, they aren’t going to work.
So there you go. Three things you HAVE TO know if you want to get good at this stuff. Are there more? Of course there are. But I think those three things are the fundamentals you need to get down first if you wanna see progress fast.
It’s my opinion. Take it for what it’s worth. =)
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Good write up! I would like to see what the other folks etc have to say regarding this topic including Mys or TD.
This is one of my personal challenges at times. Anyhow shoot away folks..lets here your opinions.
Dangerous
Here is my thing right now.
My game can DEFINITELY IMPROVE.
I am somewhat along the lines of a natural. I thought I was good until I went to the TD workshop. I do exactly what TD says about naturals, I bang girls in heat, and alot of 7′s and 8′s.
I’ve been working mega-hours lately so I can start having sweet clothes to peacock in.
However, I need to add some material to my game.
My main question is, where do I find such material? I’ve tried searching for many of the routines (such as the ones in jlaix’s cheatsheat) However, that search feature sucks. Does anyone have a cut and paste file of all the good common routines?
I would even go to the point of buying a product that had a lot about storytelling and a few routines in it.
I really want to be a better storyteller. I am even going to go to the length of recording my voice and doing singing exercises for my tonality. (used to be really good when I sang)
What are your recommendations for me? Everybody always talks about learning the materials, but it seems that I can never find the stuff lol.
Thank you
You can find some routines at bristollair.com. If you start reading the mASF archives of the top pua’s (which is way more productive than reading new stuff on mASF), you’ll find a lot of them in there.
I would say, that learning routines and shooting the in sets are just first few stages of growing as a PUA..
Why?
best naturals I saw, are just great storytellers..just as TC wrote,
so use this memorized routines till you get down delivery, and till you learn storytelling.
when you get down storytelling, you can take anny stupid topic, and you can make it interesting to chicks….
for me it tooked years to find out that… now, when my delivery is close to perfect,I can take any part of Shakespeare and make it interesing..
good example would be excersise I do on workshop for students…
If you jumped from airplane yesterday, and it was great fucking expiriance….
can you imagine telling that story to your best friends… how entusiastic you would be, or emotions you would try to describe them…
it would be great story, if you are totally into it!!describing all emotions you went through
now…
leave that same delivery and emotions…like jumping with parachute from airplane… and instead that story(material) insert some boring topic like what notebbook is better .. IBM or ACER…go into topic, but be as interesting as parachute story…..if you can do that, you have good storytelling, you dont need routines…you just need topics to talk…
guys, its not text you are telling them… its emotions you are sending to them…
Enliteme,
You can try TD’s archive from PDF# 6 onward for some stuff.Oh talk to Papa and see if he can sign you up for his PLAY email list out in LA. Considering you have taken a workshop etc he should put you on. I got some killer stuff from that place and I only signed up for a few weeks..got what I wanted and bounced.
Product wise probably TC’s book would be good for openers. Swinggcat has some good stuff as well for structure and storybuilding I found at least in his book. A side from those 2 products the only other camps we all have to wait on is the MM and RSD guys to come out with there ebooks etc. Considering Mys is one of the main guys for routine/material based PU you would think he would have his book out by now…frig.
I also like Badboy’s comments as well in relation to having your emotions peaked by some experience and filling in ANYTHING for conversation. For me its more structure and coming up with my own stuff…maybe I am lazy and at times I lose direction. I find Mystery good in his structure in regards to keepin on track etc in PU. Anyhow enough ramble…
Later,
Dangerous
I’m currently doing a few things to help my story-telling ability. The first thing was that I sat down and brainstormed about all the interesting and cool shit that I did. I came up with about 80 stories from my past that might be interesting to somebody else (not women, but anybody). These are stories that could take anywhere from 30 seconds to 20 minutes to spell out.
Next thing, I prioritized them, putting the most interesting and longest stories at the top of the list. Then I sat down in front of a camcorder and told the story on video. The result was: Wow, do I suck at telling stories.
That wasn’t exactly a shocking revelation. I expected that there was alot of room for improvement. So I bought a little digital recorder and started telling the stories into the recorder. There were alot of problems, a HUGE number of “um” and “you know”s (which I *thought* I had under control), so I now have things I can work on. That’s where I am right now, getting better at telling the stories by analyzing my speaking patterns and gestures.
Once I’ve got a firm grasp on how to tell these stories confidently, I want to find ways to weave some of these stories together to create my own routines. Not there yet, though.
Funny, though, one thing I figured was that if I told MY stories and not somebody else’s routine that I found on the net, it would be easier to remember and I wouldn’t forget them mid-sarge. It really is hard, though, to remember alot of the details that make the stories interesting. I didn’t expect that, but I noticed it when I saw myself on the video for the first time. There would be pauses while I was accessing my long-term memory to try and remember the events. I suppose that continuously refreshing my memory will help, but only time can answer me that question.
Another thing that I’ve noticed about my stories is, well, OK fuck it, I was a fucking criminal, alright? I admit to that. All my stories are about illegal shit. I really wish that wasn’t the case, and looking back now, the thing that I regret most is that I’m having a hard time getting myself to share these stories with people. I mean, “That reminds me of a time I tripped that buglar alarm,” really isn’t a good intro, IMO. I’m not even sure now whether I CAN tell these stories to people without feeling insecure about them. How can you feel confident and safe when you’ve got this little thing in the back of your head telling you that you could go to jail if you give out too much information? I know that’s not realistic, though, but it’s still there. Maybe it will go away, maybe not. I guess I don’t have all the answers yet.
Just a quick note. A good way to make material you get online “your own”, is to actually picture it in your head at home. For instance, if you find a story online, print it out, read it, memorize it, then go over in your head seeing, hearing, feeling, “touching”, experiencing everything in that story. Make it REAL for yourself. The more REAL it seems for you, the better you will be able to express the story and reveal the emotions in the interaction.
Just make up shit to make it real for youself. If you can make yourself FEEL something while going through the story in your head, you are on the right track. Now make yourself feel those emotions as you express the story out loud.
What Badboy says is just the tip of the iceberg. Memorizing material is actually a trap that makes you a social routine robot that cannot quickly adapt to different social situations.
Yes, have some stories (YOUR OWN!) to tell, but a thousand times more important is the ability to improvise. The form (attitude, playful and confident state of mind, body language, tonality) is so much more important than being a dumb routine performing monkey….
What is this “Listen up you humps!” crap?
You’re starting to sound like Ross Jeffries!
LOL.
>Memorizing material is actually a trap that makes you a social routine robot that cannot quickly adapt to different social situations.
That’s an ignorant comment man. Alot of guys are just learning how to talk and interact with women. Canned material gives them a method to do so and a way to guide the interaction where they want it to go.
Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.
>important is the ability to improvise. The form (attitude, playful and confident state of mind, body language, tonality) is so much more important than being a dumb routine performing monkey….
Agreed. However, what you are telling guys is to just BE a pickup artist. This has same is the same thing as telling a poor guy to just BE a millionaire. You gotta learn the skills first man, and canned material gives you a way to do this. Also, when you are not thinking about what to say, you can focus on other stuff like body language, tonality etc.
intlzncster, you’re a riot!
You wrote: “Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.”
Learn to read. I did not say that.
Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
No disrespect for TD or Mystery (I know both of them) and guys like them, but memorizing material can fuck up your game as much as it can help you. I have seen it happen to many guys.
I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small. Think about what this last sentence means before you react to it.
Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)? What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Learn to improvise MORE than you memorize.
intlzncster, you’re a riot!
You wrote: “Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.”
Learn to read. I did not say that.
Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
No disrespect for TD or Mystery (I know both of them) and guys like them, but memorizing material can fuck up your game as much as it can help you. I have seen it happen to many guys.
I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small. Think about what this last sentence means before you react to it.
Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)? What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Learn to improvise MORE than you memorize.
intlzncster, you’re a riot!
You wrote: “Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.”
Learn to read. I did not say that.
Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
No disrespect for TD or Mystery (I know both of them) and guys like them, but memorizing material can fuck up your game as much as it can help you. I have seen it happen to many guys.
I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small. Think about what this last sentence means before you react to it.
Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)? What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Learn to improvise MORE than you memorize.
intlzncster, you’re a riot!
You wrote: “Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.”
Learn to read. I did not say that.
Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
No disrespect for TD or Mystery (I know both of them) and guys like them, but memorizing material can fuck up your game as much as it can help you. I have seen it happen to many guys.
I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small. Think about what this last sentence means before you react to it.
Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)? What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Learn to improvise MORE than you memorize.
intlzncster, you’re a riot!
You wrote: “Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.”
Learn to read. I did not say that.
Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
No disrespect for TD or Mystery (I know both of them) and guys like them, but memorizing material can fuck up your game as much as it can help you. I have seen it happen to many guys.
I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small. Think about what this last sentence means before you react to it.
Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)? What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Learn to improvise MORE than you memorize.
intlzncster, you’re a riot!
You wrote: “Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.”
Learn to read. I did not say that.
Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
No disrespect for TD or Mystery (I know both of them) and guys like them, but memorizing material can fuck up your game as much as it can help you. I have seen it happen to many guys.
I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small. Think about what this last sentence means before you react to it.
Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)? What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Learn to improvise MORE than you memorize.
intlzncster, you’re a riot!
You wrote: “Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.”
Learn to read. I did not say that.
Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
No disrespect for TD or Mystery (I know both of them) and guys like them, but memorizing material can fuck up your game as much as it can help you. I have seen it happen to many guys.
I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small. Think about what this last sentence means before you react to it.
Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)? What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Learn to improvise MORE than you memorize.
intlzncster, you’re a riot!
You wrote: “Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.”
Learn to read. I did not say that.
Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
No disrespect for TD or Mystery (I know both of them) and guys like them, but memorizing material can fuck up your game as much as it can help you. I have seen it happen to many guys.
I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small. Think about what this last sentence means before you react to it.
Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)? What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Learn to improvise MORE than you memorize.
intlzncster, you’re a riot!
You wrote: “Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.”
Learn to read. I did not say that.
Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
No disrespect for TD or Mystery (I know both of them) and guys like them, but memorizing material can fuck up your game as much as it can help you. I have seen it happen to many guys.
I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small. Think about what this last sentence means before you react to it.
Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)? What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Learn to improvise MORE than you memorize.
intlzncster, you’re a riot!
You wrote: “Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.”
Learn to read. I did not say that.
Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
No disrespect for TD or Mystery (I know both of them) and guys like them, but memorizing material can fuck up your game as much as it can help you. I have seen it happen to many guys.
I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small. Think about what this last sentence means before you react to it.
Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)? What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Learn to improvise MORE than you memorize.
intlzncster, you’re a riot!
You wrote: “Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.”
Learn to read. I did not say that.
Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
No disrespect for TD or Mystery (I know both of them) and guys like them, but memorizing material can fuck up your game as much as it can help you. I have seen it happen to many guys.
I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small. Think about what this last sentence means before you react to it.
Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)? What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Learn to improvise MORE than you memorize.
intlzncster, you’re a riot!
You wrote: “Oh yeah, and guys like TD, who use alot of canned material must be complete unthinking nonreacting social robots….right.”
Learn to read. I did not say that.
Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
No disrespect for TD or Mystery (I know both of them) and guys like them, but memorizing material can fuck up your game as much as it can help you. I have seen it happen to many guys.
I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small. Think about what this last sentence means before you react to it.
Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)? What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Learn to improvise MORE than you memorize.
>intlzncster, you’re a riot!
Thank you. I’m am an entertaining bastard, aren’t I?
>Learn to read. I did not say that.
I can read just fine. Words imply meaning other than what is explicitly stated. I was merely making a point. I’m guessing you didn’t like the word “ignorant”.
>Have you ever met the guys you are talking about (TD or Mystery)?
Yes, I’ve taken two of their workshops and one seminar and hung out with others.
> but your success depends much more on form than on content.
Agreed. That’s why I said in my last post that canned material allows me to free up my mind and concentrate on all important body language, tonality, etc.
>Canned material is a dead end. It’s not completely worthless, but it only gets you so far.
A deadend maybe, but that doesn’t mean it can’t take you a LONG way down the road. It has gotten me SO much farther than where I was. And it continues to help me improve….when it stops, I’ll move on.
>I am not saying you are wong, but your frame of reference is too small.
Fine. Expand my horizons. I’m not trying to knock you, but if you know a better way, than spell it out.
Look, if all a guy does is spout out routine after routine and never deviates, then yes, he’ll bomb. But you have to admit, nearly every top PUA in the game uses canned material, in varying degrees.
>What about Badboy? Shark or Zan? They are amazing storytellers.
Most naturals are. I’m not a bad storyteller myself, but canned material is helping me learn to convey my stories in a more dramatic and powerful fashion. If I throw out a routine, and get one reaction, then throw it out again, and get a better one, I can look at the differences in delivery between the two and calibrate my delivery from there on out.
Thanks for agreeing with everything I’ve said.
Now that you’ve taken TD and Mystery workshops, I suggest you meet Badboy and Shark, and see the world from the other side.
You’ll like it better there. BTW, of the three only Zan is (really) a natural.
Thundercat, if you’re reading this, there’s something wrong with the submit function. Can you fix the multiple posts please?
Thanks for agreeing with everything I’ve said.
Now that you’ve taken TD and Mystery workshops, I suggest you meet Badboy and Shark, and see the world from the other side.
You’ll like it better there. BTW, of the three only Zan is (really) a natural.
Thundercat, if you’re reading this, there’s something wrong with the submit function. Can you fix the multiple posts please?
Why so many people want to express “attractive qualities” What you do makes you attractive.
Great stories are good to have and are very important for me but do you see
the following problem, are you aware of it:
If you dont have a ferrari dont supstitute with great stories cause you are
still in the same frame of “I have to have some attractive quality” you still
serve the society but this time through story learning and not spending money.
hey shark, so what is it that you DO that makes you attractive, I’ve read your posts and still can’t figure it out.
Or is it that girls become attracted to you because you do nothing to try to attract them, indicating that you are higher value?
Sounds like you are trying to rationalize having to read and use lame routines and canned bullshit. Use it if you will but atleast be original and make up your own stuff… One dude on ASF has posted 5+ FRs last week and EVERY SINGLE ONE has the SAME EXACT ROUTINES over and over and over zzzzzz It sounds like “40″ retakes of a bad movie.
No it’s not a given that a natural is a good storyteller either, and no they do NOT use systems and structures necessarily even though everyone to some extent do it, you can of course disect parts of it and lay it out as a structure but still no…
If you want to use material like that, MAKE IT UP ON YOUR OWN BASED ON YOURSELF…..
>No it’s not a given that a natural is a good storyteller either, and no they do NOT use systems and structures necessarily even though everyone to some extent do it
>Hence the word “most”. Yes, there are naturals with different tacks, but many you meet are the charasmatic fun loving guys with a knack for tell great stories (they may not even use this ingame). There are plenty out there that do other things. I know this. However, I don’t see how you can say they don’t use a “method”. They may not refer to it as such, or even recognize that any exists, but they still operate in a consistent fashion in the field. Its not like they go out eveynight and just wing it…doing a completely new thing in every encounter. They have a subconscious system operating naturally that allows them to pick up chicks. Begetting the word “natural”.
>If you want to use material like that, MAKE IT UP ON YOUR OWN BASED ON YOURSELF…..
Down the road, yes. When you are just starting to learn, no. You are telling me that someone new to pickup should go makeup his own stories and learn the game this way? No way.
Last workshop I went to, some guys did this, and I watched them consistenly be able to open ZERO sets. Canned material and field tested routines allow guys to get into set and work on the really important things: body language, tonality, cadence, pacing….whatever. Its a great crutch with which to learn the game. Making up your own material, without having any other pickup experience to draw from, is crap IMO.
My take on routines:
1. Routines is training wheels. You know what to say so that interaction with girls is easy, cause you have interesting stuff to tell that ENGAGE her.
2. Make the routines your own. This is easy for me as I`m norwegian. I find a cool routine that I like, but I have to translate it to my own language and slang. It fits me! But don`t tell story`s of you in the woods and bear shit and that stuff it it isn`t true. Routines like “Best friends”, “Style`s Evolution Phase Shift”, “PVD Devil outfit” is example of good routines you can make you can copy and make your own. Who can say that you`re lying and beeing fake here? You`re not telling about things you`ve done IRL, just cool things to fill in the gaps.
3. Make routines out of your real life happenings. I`m working on this myself right now and actually I`ve been having a hard time with this but I will make it happen.
4. When you`ve been in the field a LOT(not there myself yet) and using canned routines, I`m 100 % positive that you will begin to understand the structure of good routines and stories on your own. Bodylanguage, tonality, etc will also become smooth.
The reason I think that people are having success with that canned bs that everyone knows is that they BELIEVE inn it they believe it’s some magical formula.
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