Out-Alphaed by Betas?
March 26, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
Man o’ man, did I have a crappy night of sarging!
So I’m bored with the Hollywood scene and have been exploring the surrounding areas for cool (or at least different) places to pick up women, and last night I decided to go to the San Fernando Valley for a change of scenery. So I went to a club there that was pretty jumping for a Thursday night.
This place TOTALLY reminded me of clubs I used to go to in college. The girls there were, on average, 6-8s on the looks scale. For the most part, they were all packing a little "junk in the trunk" if you know what I mean. A real change of pace from the model-esque Hollywood types.
So I get a few drinks in me and start approaching set after set. I open one — BOOM! Crash and burn. No energy at all. I open another — BOOM! Same thing. After about five or six sets, I’m noticing a pattern. I can’t understand what the hell is wrong with these interactions, because I’m using pretty good field tested material that I KNOW works. But for some reason, I’m failing to hook the girls.
Upon talking with a friend of mine after the club closes, I began to realize what happened. Every single guy in that club was a Beta. They were so Beta, in fact, that the only approaching being done was by women. They’d choose which guys they liked and then they would approach the men and start flirting. I saw this happen numerous times, but it didn’t click with me until afterwards. However, when I was going into set and controlling the interaction, the girls would get uncomfortable — because I wasn’t being Beta. It’s almost as if the very ACT of approaching raised my value so high I blew myself out.
This is mind boggling to me, and I’m curious if other guys have had similar experiences. Granted, my material is not the strongest stuff in the world, but I can usually get into a set by using it. The fact that the very act of approaching would blow me out is such a foriegn concept to me — I mean, I wouldn’t even GET to most of my material because the sets would stall out so quickly.
I’ve noticed similar episodes occur whenever I’d sarge outside of LA. Places like Washington D.C., Pennsylvania, and Chicago were very much like this club I was in tonight, and it dawned on me that this is very much the way "normal" people hook up. My perspective gets so skewed going into Hollywood and hitting on a crowd that’s used to a certain atmosphere and certain stimuli, that I forget there is a whole other world out there with different perceptions on how things work.
I’m often reminded of a conversation I had with Tyler D. up in Chicago when I was bitching about the "cliquiness" of the women up there, and he simply told me "Dude, EVERYPLACE except New York and LA is like this. You Hollywood guys are fuckin’ SPOILED, yo!"
I guess tonight proved him right.
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sounds like women were lower self esteem too.
Your style of approaching doesn’t work as well with lower self esteem. Compliments and more compliments are what is needed in this situation.
But who wants lower self esteem women?
Nightlife
Yeah, people don’t pay enough attention to the differences in each region. Sometimes ASF is far too US centric in terms of PU for example. Some of the guys in other corners of the world just waste a lot of time by trying to mimick it. In the China lair there are guys who have tried to use C&F but it just gets the girls blown out, or shut down. I think all of the concepts can be applied anyway, but you DO have to tweek the timing and delivery or even order to match the cultural limitations (cultural can mean inter-continental or intra-country).
From experience neutral openers work just fine in DC. From their point of view I’m just talking about interesting stuff, why should they blow me out? (well I don’t really use Negs in DC, that’s important
Hahaha I just Read your report Ive went sarging at this night club a few weeks ago with a wing and I was feeling great yet all the sarges got Blown out, the girls were all UGs It was just funny after awhile. Prolly had like 15 CBs that night it was FUN!
I’ve experienced this a lot too. Let’s, umm, pretend that I’m an above average looking guy. When I use most PUA tactics, I think I make my value way too high. The women I’m attracted to become too imtimidated. I have to tone everything down a lot and do a little AFC-ish pursuing. I damn near literally have to mention something like, “I’m not a picky guy” just to get them comfortable with me.
Bottom line: I’ve read somewhere to “treat the 9′s and 10′s like 5′s and 6′s and treat the 5′s and 6′s like 9′s and 10′s.” I think the latter part applies here.
To get through attraction, you want to get to a point where you have nominally higher social value than the target. Most PUA techniques are focused on getting your social value as high as possible and bringing the target’s social value down at the same time. This is done on the presumption that (a) you’re de facto lower social value because you’re entering their group (and are something of a dork to begin with), and (b) you’re targeting high value girls.
You do this with a lower social value girl, and she’ll quickly conclude she’s not high enough value for you, and turn away. My most memorable blowouts have been with low status UG’s; some have even insulted me directly. I figure they harbor resentments from high school, when they got pissed on by the jocks.
If you’re in Mystery A2 and overestimate the target’s social value and neg her, she’ll socially collapse. If her status is already below yours, there’s little need to elevate your status or bring her down. You basically skip A2 and go straight into A3 and beyond.
I’ve done this in sets: Not five words past my opener and the target is already turned toward me and smiling by the mere fact I have the balls to come up and talk to a group.
Idol, what you wrote makes total sense. I think it’s possible to get too far ahead of yourself, espescially if you are at least of average social value. It’s kind of like training in martial arts and picking a fight with every guy you see. Sure, you’ll be able to handle yourself now, but you’re also going to end up putting someone in the hospital (blowing yourself out).
You see, it’s like you’re a bear…with these big fuckin’ claws…
“From experience neutral openers work just fine in DC. From their point of view I’m just talking about interesting stuff, why should they blow me out? (well I don’t really use Negs in DC, that’s important
”
Oh God, that is SO right. While doing RSD in DC back in April, I completely stopped Cocky-Funny/Neg’s altogether. Actually, I’ve pretty much stopped doing cocky/funny at all.
In DC, even the hot girls with high social value would still shudder at Negs that worked great in Chicago and other places I’ve sarged. It was uncanny.
Any thoughts?
DG
Lots of this beta stuff in Chicago, more lately than in the past, with larger sets becoming the norm. I’ve been trying to come up with a good work-around, messing with phase and stage orders. One thing that seems to be the overall vein of this is that subtlety is key in some of these situations. I’m working on a list of very subtle negs. Any input would be great. BTW would like to hook up with good wings in Chicago.
Opening in Minneapolis, MN is f-ing rare. I have spent whole nights with groups of 4-6 girls in the 7-9 range and watched them go unopened for hours. I don’t think I have ever dealt with an AMOG in the field ever. Its super easy to get isolation. I have had exactly one rejected # close in my life. However, flakiness is high once you get the #, and girls don’t seem very up for ONS. Just a different scene.
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