Added Value

So it’s Friday, and I don’t usually update on the weekends (I use that time to go out sarging and catching up on sleep). So I figured I’d make the last update on Friday a special one. That is with an excellent, excellent post from the most POWERFUL of the Jedi — the one, the only — Style.

This guy is so powerful, all he has to do is introduce a new vocab word, and people adopt it as gospel (social robot, anyone?). Anyway, Style chimes in on the Advanced forum of mASF with a post he calls: Added Value.

Style writes:
I’ve been thinking about the game, and how much ASF has down to a science. Yet there’s only ONE point in a sarge where the PUA has no control. Know what this is?

It’s the period right after you leave with her number. Whether you see her again here is entirely up to HER. There’s no way to guarantee it, other than to have done a good sarge beforehand and, if you can get her on the phone, some phonegame. Thus, a lot of people here get flakes, and are frustrated by it.

So I thought that there may be a piece MISSING from our model: And that’s ADDED VALUE.

In other words, why SHOULD she call you back? What’s in it for HER?

When you DHV (or demonstrate value), all you are doing is showing that you are more INTERESTING than all the other guys in the vicinity. However, that does not necessarily mean that there’s anything useful or meaningful for her in what you do. For a SHB to call you back, you must offer the potential of ADDED VALUE to her life.

So, to take a crass example, a SHB actress is going to call a producer back, because he can possibly help her with her career. A party promoter will get the calls back from a party girl. A rich guy with an awesome house and car will get a call back from a waitress who enjoys being in the lap of luxury.

This doesn’t mean that all girls will use you for what you got, it means that when a SHB has a lot of options of guys to call, she’s going to call the one who offers ADDED VALUE to her life.

Sometimes it may be enough that you’re funny, that you’re offering sex, that you connected with her, that you’re the type of guy she’s looking for at that particular period in her life, or that you know how to do that cool Cube thing. But for girls with lots of options, they need more incentive: What do you ADD to their life? How do you bring them closer to the LIFESTYLE that they want?

I think some people who do well in the field actually do this by instinct. TD, for example, was up here, taking a video of Project Hollywood to tell HBs he lived there: that was a form of Added Value.

I realize that this may border on AFC-ness, but this is how a lot of AFC who may be wealthy, famous, or in positions of power get women. If you can figure out how to replicate it, without having any of those attributes, than you’re gold.

It’s a new idea I’ve just been toying with this week, but I’d like to start a discussion on it and come up with routines that convey this that could be inserted into our structure.

This post is genius, in every sense of the word. I’d even go so far as to say it’s BRILLIANT, because it touches on a fundamental point that needs to be addressed in everyone’s game. That is the concept of giving a girl incentive to be with you.

In the thread, Tyler Durden chimes in with his thoughts on this post:

Tyler Durden writes:
On 3/16/04 1:27:35 AM, Style wrote:
>It’s the period right after
>you leave with her number.
>Whether you see
>her again here is entirely up
>to HER. There’s no way to
>guarantee it,
snip
>In other words, why SHOULD she
>call you back? What’s in it
>for HER?

Yep. Most guys in the community are gaming girls that they think are 8s, 9s, or 10s. But they really aren’t. I was the same when I’d never left my small town. The girls that I thought were 9s were really 7s by big city social scene standards.

So in the community, we’ll see many ideas thrown around about how if we convey enough attraction, the girl will go out with us. What they don’t realize though -> attracting may have re-slotted you from the 98% of AFCs into the 2% of alpha-PUAs or whatever, but that 2% is still like FIFTY different cool alpha guys that are trying to get in her pants. So good job, but aside from the contingency that you sleep with her same night (which is fine sometimes, but is not totally consistent because of logistics and peer groups), how do you get her to return your calls?

The only answers, fucking persistance with a smile (a whole other topic I could go on about for hours), and what we’re talking about here which is throwing up BAIT – aka “Added Value”.

It’s just not often discussed in the community, because by the time guys are getting super hotties, they leave the community.

>When you DHV (or demonstrate
>value), all you are doing is
>showing that
>you are more INTERESTING than
>all the other guys in the
>vicinity.

This is fixed with the stuff I posted in the “How to play hard to get actually for real” post. Make her work her fucking ass off for it, by taking it away over and over and over, until she’s so convinced about it that flaking is not an issue. This will also get her qualifying herself to you so that you’ll feed her more cookies, and she’ll be more consistent to her effort down the line.

Also, venue changing and getting her the fuck out of the loud club environment will help, because she can’t so readily categorize you as the “club guy” who she got wild around. You have to become a real person.

btw, want to know a secret not a lot of guys know? The best way to avoid flakes is to allow buying temperature to taper off towards the end, and to get a logical and rational decision to meet up. Often, I don’t get flakes just by opening, doing one DHV, and then getting her qualifying herself to me in desperate effort to keep the convo going (IOW, I have seriously crossed the social hook point, so I let her do ALL the work in the convo.. then I’ll make plans, then maybe more game to get her all attracted and tonguedown, then I ease off again and let it taper off, re-establish plans, and eject). But when girls say that they’ll meet up, and its while they’re heavily “in state”, they will compartmentalize it. It’s the same as when you did a mind reading or palm reading in set, and you meet up the next day and you say “Did you really believe I was psychic?” (I don’t use this stuff, but have tested it in the past, and many guys get great results with it). Many of the girls will say “You didn’t read my mind. What are you talking about?” You’re like “Umm, remember when I did x,y, and z?” and they’ll say “Oh yeah.. whatever.. anyway” and dismiss it. That’s because they compartmentalize whatever happens while they’re in state, like it didn’t happen.

Nothing a girl does while she’s in state counts to her. It’s all bullshit and none of it is her fault. In fact, the only reason to put a girl in state is to allow yourself to escalate the situation that can benefit you. That’s why Formhandle has posted in the past that disarming ASD is more important than establishing attraction. We establish attraction because we want the girl to venue change with us, and if she’s not in state she’ll say ‘no’. But its the connection we build while she’s in isolation with us that prevents the flakage, not the attraction itself.

So just like if you pull out a digital camera, and the girl screams “I want one of those!”, or if you say you’ll adopt her and she says “Yes! I always wanted an older brother! Yes YES!”, its all bullshit. The same goes for when you eject on a high note, and you ask her for plans. She freaks and says “YES YES, I want to go out FOR SURE!” and gives you her #. You call the next day and her vocal inflections are completely cold towards you, and you can hardly believe its the same girl. She flakes you, and you feel like screaming “Are you fucking kidding me?????”

The reason why was that she was in state at the time that she agreed to the plans. It was like she was ROLEPLAYING that she wanted to make plans. It’s no different than when you do the marriage C&F roleplaying, except she’s roleplaying that she wants to go out with you. If you can calm her down and get her to agree to it logically (ie: via the added value stuff, or even if its just to meet up to hang) then your chances are better that she’ll take the commitment more seriously. Of course some of the girls you do this to won’t give you their #s, and they previously would have. But you’re screening flakes this way.

>you do. For a SHB to call you
>back, you
>must offer the potential of
>ADDED VALUE to her life.

Yep. Well not always. I’ve seen black guys who roll up on girls and say “Yo ma, you fine.. give me your digits.. I want to touch it.. blah blah”. Pimpjuice on here can probably attest to this. He’ll fuck the girls, ala Secret Society type shit. Unfortunately this is a fool’s mate scenario and not consistent (I’m not referring to PJ, whose game I imagine is very good, but just in general).

>So, to take a crass example, a
>SHB actress is going to call a
>producer
>back, because he can possibly
>help her with her career. A
>party
>promoter will get the calls
>back from a party girl. A rich
>guy with an
>awesome house and car will get
>a call back from a waitress
>who enjoys
>being in the lap of luxury.

Yeah, this is just game on another level. Guys will say “That isn’t real game”, but what they don’t get is that all game is just the same shit on various levels.

Like, we see a girl who is hot. We want to hook up with her because our children have the strongest chances of survival due to her genes.

Girls are the same. We come in alpha and commanding, and their limbic brain says “If I have this guys kid, it stands a strong chance of survival because his alpha genes are good, and even if they aren’t his social status still offeres survival benefits”. Notice that the second we deviate we lose attraction from them. Boom, your “true love connection” girlfriend dumps you for someone else. WTF?@!?!

But this is no different than if our hot girlfriend gained 90 pounds around her belly and ass, and got zits all over her face from all the twinkies she ate.

Girls will give you more IOIs and show more physical attraction if you elicit what added value they’ll need. This is a different thing than a girl tooling on some rich loser. These girls will fuck your brains out, because the added value DOES turn them on. It’s weird to see it.

I rarely use this stuff actually, except for when I’m in NYC or LA. In those places though, I use it every set.

>Sometimes it may be enough
>that you’re funny, that you’re
>offering
>sex, that you connected with
>her, that you’re the type of
>guy she’s
>looking for at that particular
>period in her life, or that

This last bit is the key. You run a bunch of sets, and they were all great. But the factor that got you the girl that you got from among all these sets was that that particular girl was at the time in her life where she was open to finding a guy. Because girls are bombarded with guys, they’re often not even open to it except at particular times.

>I realize that this may border
>on AFC-ness, but this is how a
>lot of
>AFC who may be wealthy,
>famous, or in positions of
>power get women. If
>you can figure out how to
>replicate it, without having
>any of those
>attributes, than you’re gold.

The difference is that the AFC guys with added value get lots of dates and no sex. Lots of girls running around their house, and no sex. The PUA uses this stuff and gets laid non stop, and winds up not coughing up any of the stuff he used as bait. He doesn’t need to spend a dime. He just offers the prospect that he might as a way to get isolation, and once he’s done he has the *option* to do what he wants.

>It’s a new idea I’ve just been
>toying with this week, but I’d
>like to
>start a discussion on it and
>come up with routines that
>convey this
>that could be inserted into
>our structure.
>
>Style
>

Mystery’s “grounding” stuff is great. C&F her until she pries out of you what you do. Use the “I work at taco bell.. I’m the employee of the month.. This month, I’m chopping the lettuce at the back.. but next month, swear to god, if you were to come in, you’d see me making the burritos… up at the *front*!” Then she says “No way! Tell me! Tell me!” But instead of continuing and not telling her, you say “OK Nancy Drew, I work at x-job..” Then continue with the Mystery “Grounding” stuff he’s about to email out in his next newsletter.

Also, photo routine does this stuff also.

Great post as usual, btw.

So some interesting stuff from two heavyweights in the community. I’d comment more on this, but I think Tyler covered all the big points. I’m not sure if I agree with the part that the Added Value AFCs just have girls running around they’re not fucking, because in all honesty, if these guys have enough value and want to have sex with a girl, they’ll FIND a girl to boink. And frankly, I’ve seen a number of PUAs stall out with girls, so I don’t think the distinction Tyler makes is 100% accurate, but the rest of his stuff is good.

Anyway, if you wanna comment on this monster thread, you can check it out in all it’s glory here.