Some Quick Thoughts On Frame Control
May 9, 2005 by Thundercat
Filed under Rants & Reviews
I’ve recently noticed in my interactions with girls just how important frame control can be when it comes to seducing them or picking them up. I’ve been playing around with this a lot lately and wanted to rant a bit on my findings.
As Rick H is always fond of saying: "If you say anything with enough authority, people will believe you." This couldn’t be more true. For those of you who haven’t seen the movie "Sexy Beast," go out and rent it tonight. You’ll see the ultimate example of frame control, and how powerful it can be.
For those of you who don’t know anything about "Frames," let me explain what I’m talking about briefly. "Frame" is short for "frame of mind." It’s a set of rules, expectations, or beliefs that one accepts to be true or inevitable. When you "set a frame," you’re creating rules, expectations, or beliefs that you are accepting to be true. You can then impose this frame of mind you’ve created on others, and they too will accept these rules, expectations, and beliefs to be true as well.
So when you "Control The Frame," you’re dictating to others what they will believe to be true or inevitable. So if you’re talking with a girl, and you set the frame that the two of you are going to sleep together tonight, if she accepts that frame of mind, guess what? It’s going to happen.
Sometimes this can get hairy because other people may have a strong frame of mind as well and won’t accept the frame you’re setting. In this case, the stronger frame will win (ie: the person who believes in their frame of mind more). Sometimes it’s a draw and the two people walk away from each other.
One thing I’ve noticed is that most women (not all, but most) have quite pliable frames, and if you exude a certain amount of male dominance, you can impose your frame of mind on her quite easily.
I’ve been experimenting around with this for a while now and have found it to work quite well. My style of doing it has become rather aggressive, and if you have the right type of energy and persistence, it can be quite powerful.
For example, the other night I was out with some friends at a bar and went outside with a friend who wanted to smoke. While out there I started talking to a girl. When my friend was done with her cigarette, I turned to the girl I had just met and said:
ME: You should come inside and join us.
HER: I’d like to, but I can’t.
ME: Yes you can. Just come with us.
HER: I can’t, I’m waiting for my friends.
ME: You can wait for them inside with us.
HER: But what if they don’t find me?
ME: They will. We’re easy to spot and have a good view of the door. Come on.
HER: But what if –
ME: They’ll find you, don’t worry. Come on.
Then I took her by the hand and lead her back to our table. Eventually, her friends showed up and they all joined us. It was quite a fun night.
But you see how that worked? I set the frame that she was going to join me at my table. And every objection she raised, I answered powerfully in a positive fashion. I always maid a point to say "Yes." and "You can." I made her believe that she could join me no matter what, without any negative consequences.
Whenever you’re setting the frame, there’s always a point where you can see the person you’re talking to accept it. It’s like a switch is flipped behind their eyes and they light up. In the example above, I went a bit further by taking her by the hand and physically leading her back to the table. I also said all this stuff with a good energy and strong eye contact, so it wasn’t threatening.
I’ve had some pretty interesting results so far this this tactic, and I plan on experimenting with it more.
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Ace story! And I noticed it goes exactly against what Badboy and TD says. Don’t try and persuade a girl logically…..persuade her emotionally. Your approach is definately of the logically minded. Which method works best? Have you ever tried changing a girls decision emotionally?
Hey Thundercat,
I’ve noticed and experienced the exact same thing. Even in my interaction with other men and potential clients the Frame Dominance Theory works. I’ve used Frame Control to take over entire groups of people in clubs and it is a blast. The point is to set the frame, hold it and direct it all the way through. It is truly a fun thing to do and very profitable. Great post!
– Captain Jack from Dallas, TX
In response to Cho’s comments…I disagree that this is primarily logical persuasion.
It’s not the persuasiveness of the argument that’s important, it’s the persuasiveness of the individual.
There does appear to be something hard-wired into the female brain that says ‘submit to the will of a strong, persistent male’. In this regard, strong direct EC, body language and commanding tonality are far more important than words in triggering the submission response.
In fact, I think it’s extremely rare that we are ever persuaded by logic. We tell OURSELVES that we were swayed by logic after we’ve made an emotional decision because we don’t like to admit that our emotional state has been manipulated by someone else. It’s just simple ego-protection.
Establishing strong frame control is the single most important skill in PU.
Desperado, there is both a critical thinking mode and a heuristics mode. Most people are mostly heuristic.
And authority (what Thundercat use here) is on of the traditional cues used when in heuristic mode. Search for Cialdini, or check references from my blog.
anybdy in the pasadena area around here willing to help a rafc get his game?
yeah i’ve been teaching frame control and giving examples of basic frame exercises to help guys get better at this..
http://newschool27.googlepages.com
i have some good articles posted on it along with field reports of how to do it.
i’ve built a frame control simulator which teaches guys who to control the frame in real time. check out the forum section, then go to “Frame control testing area”..it’s test #2
enjoy
xoxo,
NFM
http://manhood101.com/discuss <—here’s the shortcut to get there.
i’ve built a frame control simulator which teaches guys who to control the frame in real time. check out the forum section, then go to “Frame control testing area”..it’s test #2
enjoy
xoxo,
NFM
http://manhood101.com/discuss <—here’s the shortcut to get there.
I agree here. Frame control is crucial. Major Marks also points this out.
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