BadBoy vs. TD?
April 2, 2004 by Thundercat
Filed under Drama & Rumors
There’s an interesting thing going on in the PUA community right now, where you two incredibly skilled and gifted pick-up artists and teachers — namely Croation PUA BadBoy and the Famous Tyler Durden — who are at a philisophical divergence that is causing a great deal of interesting debate.
The thing is, both of these guys are very skilled and charismatic, so they each have strong followers. There have been quite a few "converts" from the TD camp into the BadBoy camp after taking workshops, with lots of people quoting a "shift in perspective." In fact, it can be said there is a lot of hostility from BadBoy’s followers towards Tyler and his methodology for some reason, even though the two men seem to have a professional respect for each other.
There has been a big debate on Mystery’s Lounge about this interesting "locking of horns" in terms of pick-up philosophy. Recently, BadBoy posted an article in the Advanced forum of mASF that brings the debate back to the forefront.
BadBoy writes:
Ok, I but lot of guys still wonder atound community, about me & Shark….and yes I agree we are big enigma here(at least for guys who never met us)We designed really nice lifestyle here, and we dont post as much as some ppl. expect from us.
I will try with this post to bring us closer to community, and explain few stuff we do, that are still WOW here.
Like 5 years ago, I found community(asf when old school was there(tokio_pua, nightlight, maniac….etc etc)
When now, I take a look to my before PUA period, I always had a GF’s, not on regular basis, but it wasmore LTRs from time to time 6months, 1 year..etc with some space between ltrs where I would enjoy my ‘freedom’
I was learning routines, and routines when I found asf… just like you right now….cause back then, there was nobody with complete understanding of woman, and guys thought the more routines, more girls…..now I see that, it was big mistake of that period…..
But we all learned something from them….
Thx. For old-school guys
After I meet shark, and other naturals, I found really interesting things, like that they dont have some model’s, routines, negs, disinterest and other stuff, that we discuss here…..
And I saw few guys getting laid more without all stuff here, then then guys here get laid with all those advanced theories….
That made me wonder for a long time…..
As I already had attitude, confidence, it was just to make those things even stronger….
Learning lot of routines in those years, and talking with lot of.ppl, my delivery of stories went close to perfect…(that was crutial here)
Now, in last few months I went 100% Sharks direct game….
Why??
Cause I already had wild confidence, attitudes, good delivery…
I at first, I thoought there in no way its gonna work…compliments, being direct about what you want, honest….
It was against everything that this community teach you…..
From indirect to totally direct, was really big jump…..as I never had those things, that I would appear disinterest into her…I way always alpha, and facing her…. but again jumping direct to target into set, was wow.. breaking every possible rule in this community…
First, you find community, and they they teach you to go against society, and now I was again braing rules, and going against comminity….
Hmm….as I saw that It works, I gived a shoot, ad you would not believe….its best thing that exist out there…
Let me explain little bit whats behind being direct Vs indirect….
You all know what you get when being indirect…you know that!
Now…
Game is still same… attraction-rapport…fuck
Lets take a look what ‘You look very nice, I want to get to know you’ shark’s direct opener does…
We al know. That attraction must be from both sides…mystery’s (M2f and F2m)
Why??if chick is attracted to you, you must show that you also like her… otherwise you are total player, and she is worried about whole thing….
So in good PU.. you must show that you LIKE her…
Shark does that on opener…"You look very nice , you are beautifull"…… whatever compliment he does..
So she knows he is attracted….yes but not like anyother chump that is attracted….
Why?? CAUSE he wants TO GET TO KNOW HER, not fuck her…….he wants to talk to her……
Here you must do DHV, but not with any story or routine, its done with alpha bodylanguage, and confidence
If you are the fucking MAN, you are instantly way beyond her…. and that’s best DHV isn’t it??
If you look like LSE pussy, opener will never work…
Of course when man like this approach her, without any bullshit…. and wants to get to know her….of course girl is attracted…..
Even hottest ones…..
Now, as I never write anytthing without some purpose, let me explain why I found this as best method for me…..
Cause after opener chicks you open will talk most of time…its totally crazy…… you may not believe, but this is amaizing….
They shoot stories, routines,they qualify themself to you….. and you just listen and bullshit…oh..yes….yes…thats nice…. cute…..you are the best…
What a role change!When you build good rapport, after 30-60minminutes(actually she rapports herself) LOL, you can isolate and fuck her….
Now, what I am talking about here, is 90% of inner game…..if you stand like you need to stand in set(Alpha, using lot of space), you’ll never have a problem anymore with guys trying to AMOG you….NEVER…ever!!!!
I mean, go take a look my photos of bodylanguage example…and ask yourself……who do fuck has guts to go amog guy like that?????
Even here in eastern-europe guys are affraid to cockblock me…… I can imagine how in states effect will have this alpha bodylanguage.
Probably, I am only guy in community, who can get laid doing both games(indirect and direct), besides my students who also get laid using both styles.
As I can see both sides, I will tell you, both sides are good…..
Get some game, deshying, confidence, and attitude using indirect, then go full direct….. thats best IMO..
Thats exactly how I structured my workshops…2 days of routines, female opinion kinda like openers, then 3rd day droping off all stuff and going full direct…
Lot of guys asked me how do students get so much confidence in just 3 days…I would say…structure of Workshop….., and their IMPROVEMENT…
Btw. When I come to states, its gonna be 4days workshop, 3days of indirect, and 1day of shark’s OR 2days of indirect, and 2 days of shark’s….
So every student will be able to get laid using both methods….I still need to think what concept its gonna be best….
Guys, see U in summer…. cant wait….
This brought on a response by Tyler.
Tyler Durden writes:
Hey Badboy. Interesting post. I wrote to Shark on the Lounge about this, but he didn’t have much to say on it perhaps because he is busy. I’m hoping that he’ll write more on it, because I am interested.I have a lot of questions that I think represent the guys on ASF. I want to ask them, to give you a chance to talk more about your direct style, because I think most people don’t understand it. Also I am very curious myself, and looking forward to hanging with you again to see how your game has progressed since London.
Your intuition for game is amazing, and you really know your stuff. I’ve heard great things from our friends. I’m hoping you could clear up a lot of misunderstandings that I have, because I am unclear on many things.
Comments inline.
On 4/1/04 3:09:00 PM, croBadboy wrote:
From the impression that I get, you and Shark are putting too much emphasis on the opener.
To me, I get attraction no matter how I go in. No matter what, the girls are attracted. Why is the opener so important?
Despite that I can use both, I find opinion openers smoother, because it engages the group for the 30 seconds I need to get indicators of interest and pull the girl away from the set. I find by going in direct, I can get attraction just as quickly (because my fundamentals are 100% down), but because she knows that I am approaching to pick her up, her ASD is more likely to go up if she has a boyfriend or friends watching.
In the same way, I can say "Let’s go back to my house for sex", and because my game is good enough I can do this. But its even smoother if I just say "Let’s go check out those videos I made in Sydney".
As with whether or not I go direct, I’ll get the same result because I play hard and don’t fail. But one way is smoother than the other.
>Game is still same…
>attraction-rapport…fuckYes. I agree. So for me, I use:
-attract
-qualify (compliment, or "go direct")
-extractYou guys use:
-qualify (go in direct)
-attract
-extractI’m unclear why you guys find this better. I am very interested too, because I know you guys know and have used MM in the past (not Shark, but you), so I know that what you guys have to say comes from an informed position, as opposed to some lameasses just talking shit but don’t have context.
To me, either model works because I gain attraction in 99% of sets, but the first is more consistent because of boyfriends, etc.
Why do you guys find the second more consistent?
>Why??if chick is attracted to
>you, you must show that you
>also like her… otherwise you
>are total player, and she is
>worried about whole thing….Agreed. So why does qualifying first, attracting second change this perception? To my mind, going in and verbalizing your attraction puts you in the category of the 10 other drunk guys that night who did the same.
>So in good PU.. you must show
>that you LIKE her…Yes. Why not hold off 1 minute until she’s had a chance to hear your tonality and actually look you over, until making her decide if she likes you back? I don’t understand.
Like, I agree with everything you say about bodylanguage and tonality. This is very obvious to me, as I can’t even go near any of my friends girlfriends without them trying to hook up with me, and this is of course without any material. (as a result, I literally cover my face and leave the second any of my friends bring their GFs near me, unless its one of my PUA friends).
But if I walk through her set and just say "I like you", her autopilot response is first going to screen (as 10 other drunk guys used this identical line tonight, at least here in America), and then I am left to plow through. I can do this. It is impossible for me at this point in my game to have any set not be fully on. But I’m looking for the path of least resistance, and to me qualifying (going direct) from the first sentence does not make it easier.
Like, when I do direct, I don’t have initially reacting like "OMG, finally a guy has said this to me" – because many guys did this tonight. Opinion openers, OTOH, nobody used.
I will just continue regardless of what she thinks of it, and I’ll gain attraction. But it wasn’t BETTER to do it this way. Just different.
>Here you must do DHV, but not
>with any story or routine, its
>done with alpha bodylanguage,
>and confidenceThis was another thing I don’t understand. To me, good bodylanguage and tonality is just the bear minimum entry cutoff point. Like, there will be many other alphas in the club who have this as well. I don’t know about any SUPER bodylanguage that exists. There’s just the bodylanguage of cool guys (who take up space, and move at the right tempo, as you say and I agree with), who are the only people that hotties will even give the time of day to. But from there you still have to back it up by being interesting.
So even if my bodylanguage is perfect (which mine is at this point, as it is not rocket science or overly complicated), I’ve still been successful only in taking myself out of the 98% of AFCs, and put myself into the 2% of natural alpha category. But that category is still like 10 other guys in the club. So why is she going to pick me?
Well, for me its because I have a better approach. The girls always say "I love how you just came in and were comfortable to just talk, instead of being all sexually needy like every other guy who talks to me".
>If you are the fucking MAN,
>you are instantly way beyond
>her…. and that’s best DHV
>isn’t it??I think given between having the right inner game, or having no inner game but DHVs, I’d pick inner game.
But I also think that you need both.
I also think its a more realistic learning strategy to learn DHVs first, to give you something to say to get experience under your belt, and then from there dropping them to see for yourself that sets will hold without them.
But from there, like I said in the "sets with energy/material vs frame" post, its beneficial to bring them back in.
>Cause after opener chicks you
>open will talk most of
>time…its totally crazy……
>you may not believe, but this
>is amaizing….This is the best advantage IMO. For me, I get this same advantage by hooking the girl, and then acting like I’ll walk off if she doesn’t keep me there. It works very well. I can’t see why going in by saying that I like her will improve this.
>They shoot stories,
>routines,they qualify themself
>to you….. and you just
>listen and
>bullshit…oh..yes….yes…th
>ats nice…. cute…..you are
>the best…
>What a role change!Agreed. Juggler told me this on his workshop as well: "There are two types of alpha behaviours. One holds the centre of attention. The other doesn’t say much, but everything the person is saying is qualifying to them. Use both."
>Probably, I am only guy in
>community, who can get laid
>doing both games(indirect and
>direct), besides my students
>who also get laid using both
>styles.I can and have gotten laid using both, as can Mystery although he is married now so I guess its just me and you bro..
I think you raise a great point, btw, that many guys read posts about routines and don’t calibrate their bodylanguage and inner game. Your constant hammering of it is beneficial to the group, for sure.
I’ve met so many guys who have everything they read here memorized, but still don’t get laid.
Coolwater was a guy who I hung out with last week in Australia, and knew EVERYTHING about material. But he wasn’t getting the results he wanted. I calibrated his bodylanguage for 8 hours straight (literally, when we debrief we aren’t saying "use this material like this", but instead are calibrating his speed, movements, sexuality, eye contact, vocal pitch, aggressively moving the girl around, etc), and since then he’s had 5 different girls fooling around with him in his bed in a week (full montied one of them, and will do day2s for the rest). So that is an example of where bodylanguage stuff is so key.
But of course, he never dropped his DHVs. So how would dropping them have helped him even more? Or going in direct?
Curious.
So BadBoy shouts back with this…
BadBoy writes:
Hhaa, why whenever I think its totally clear, it shows opposite…
Ok…
Answers to Td…
Td, you still dont understand why direct is more cool then indirect…
First, take a look how you are trying so hard to get attraction… using million of C&F routines,,,push-pull, and girl is attracted.Ok but now take a look how we get attraction
ON mother fucking opener….when I say ‘you are beautifull, I want to get know you….’
I get all attraction I need to fuck her
Actually my bodylanguage is crtial here….that means, deep seducive voice, eyecontact,speed
of movemnets, the way you walk….. etc
Now what happens….dorectly after opener, our chicks start talking 90\10 ratio…..
Thats a sign that she wants me really hard….so what we do????
We create rapport amd FUCK HER!!!!!!
That means structure of GOOD direct PU is
Opener
Rapport
Fuck
That is reason why we put so much imoportance on opener….. cause we get attraction from just opener….not later with some routines!!!!
That way energy you wasted in set is minimum….Td, when you say your bodylanguage is close to perfect?? What does that means?, is that ALPHA bodylanguage I am talking about, or is your bodylanguage almost perfect to disinterest bodylanguage.
One thing you must understand, is when going direct, there is no more being fuckin disinterest…….Also, I cracked laughting on your ‘ I can make any opener work…I can get laid with any opener’ LOL thats really funny…. Of course you can, I believe you.. but lets take a look why you can!!
Cause you can pull off everything you say later with your C&F…..like saying ‘I want to fuck you,… haa …but.. I dont like your hair…..’
Just like GM did it…years ago…. thats not secret… everybody here can do any opener work
On my workshops, we have basic exsersise where they practice to open set with most stupid thing on earth you can imagine….like ‘I want fuck’ or ‘lets go fish’
So that almost my every student can make any opener work…. thats not any big-deal its ‘how to deliver 101 basic’s’
But man, you have great middle, game, attraction…. where chicks go in trance….and thats really great skill… not so much guys on earth can do what you do with just delivery and stories….> As with whether or not I go direct, I’ll get the same result because I play hard and don’t fail. But one way is smoother than the other.
Ok … here is a challenge for you…. When you do this sucessfully, I will admit you mastered direct approaching
1)go in with shark’s direct opener and bodylanguage
2) create attraction in first 10 sec. so you can focus on rapport, and to get comfort-connection-trust
3) forget your standard game of C&F and teasing, cause in direct game, you don’t need this shit!!!!!!We dont use C&F, crauy attraction stories when going direct…..and also there is no changing frames from ‘I want you’ to ‘I dont want you’ done by C&F!!
Thats a mission for you for this weekend…Td wrote:
.>Yes. I agree. So for me, I use:
.>-attract
.>-qualify (compliment, or "go direct")
.>-extract.>You guys use:
.>-qualify (go in direct)
.>-attract
.>-extract.>I’m unclear why you guys find this better. I am very interested too, because I know you guys know and have used MM in the past (not Shark, but you), so I know that what you guys have to .>say comes from an informed position, as opposed to some lameasses just talking shit but don’t have context.
.>To me, either model works because I gain attraction in 99% of sets, but the first is more consistent because of boyfriends, etc.
.>Why do you guys find the second more consistent?
I see your biggest mistake here….LOL.,.. you are trying to go direct after you already did your disinterest tactics… hmmmmm…thats not it
Again, why we found second approach more consistent?? Cause ou get attraction from them on opener, you save your time, your energy, its much more congurant to who I am…,,, and most important, I need just 1 or 2 sets per night….thats is my friend.>Yes. Why not hold off 1 minute until she’s had a chance to hear your tonality and actually look you over, until making her decide if she likes you back? I don’t understand.
Why the fuck should you give her 1 minute to think….man, that is afc talking from you…..Man, give her chance to think, and she is gonna fuck up….I thought you know that!!Of course you know that….Badboy,
cockblock (boyfriend, ex-boyfriend, or just friend) is a big issue for a direct approach. Shark is right, the HB’s girlfriends are usually happy if she is into you, and wouldn’t>cockblock. It is not the same case for her male friends. They would try all they could to cockblock you, since they are usually romantically interested the HB, even if the HB is not.
I agree, so what, going direct+3 AMOG tactics will handle everything…
We have amog destroyers that are so perfect, that you simply cant escape…
They will try to cockblock you…. So I mean, let they TRY..LOL that’s everything they can do…TRY
Badboyp.s. must go… Gf is waiting outside in car…
will answer any other q’s in Monday(when I get back from EU-trip)
You can check out the whole thread here. This is starting to get interesting. Before, there was really only one method used for workshops, and that is the Mystery Method that Mystery started teaching. Tyler uses his own style of MM in his workshops. But BadBoy seems to be going in a different direction that flies in the face of that stucture. In a way, it reminds me of when David D came out with Double Your Dating and challenged the established SS standard that was already in place. The real question here is: Who’s method is going to win out? Sure they can co-exist, but people are always looking for "The Best."
We’ll have to keep our eyes on this and see how it plays out.
Jamesmoula on 
CarlosDoone on 
Diplomi_mgmn on 
Diplomi_enpi on 
Diplomi_jomn on 
Those guys need to square off in real life. Badboy&Shark vs TD&Playboy. I know TD loves this kind of thing. Let’s see it this summer.
Quit the internet stuff, and let’s see them do it in real life. Badboy, would you step up?
TD would paddle his behind, that is why.
I can’t understand why Badboy would do this. TD is not being confrontational about Badboys method, he is looking for ways to say they both work.
Anyway, I would love to see Badboy come to the US and try his taco-third-world tactics here. TD is right. There is no way to milk that much out of bodylanguage. Come on over Badboy. Just because your poor innocent peasent mail-order bride types with stars in their eyes of a brighter life and ‘I want to go Amerika’ women over there go for it does not mean that a stunning classy American woman in a tube top with a cocktail in her hand in the VIP section of an exclusive club with a red-rope that Badboy would not be able to get into without a new wardrobe and contacts in South Beach Miami would. Does he really think he is that good? He is competing with a taco methodology in taco land.
i’ve sarged with TD, and he is all that. Playboy too. never met badboy, but heard from a few sources really really good things. You guys are totally underestimating him.
also, his post isn’t as confrontational as it seems. the language and his charisma get in the way of him holding a subtle debate on PU.
Golden Goose
You keep saying taco.
Might want to brush up on your geography a little bit.
A Taco is mainly a Mexican dish.
Croatia isn’t Mexico.
Now I’m in San Diego here. What he teaches works just the same in SD, same as LA. It isn’t just Croatia.
Badboy has done workshops and is doing a workshop right now in London. London isn’t exactly 3rd world now is it? Quite a few Americans have flown out to see him as well as other guys from other countries. They haven’t had reviews saying “It only worked in Croatia” They are having the same success no matter where. It’s about the attitude and seeing the Matrix.
I’ve also taken a TD workshop. Both guys have merits.
I’ve been at the PUA Convention all weekend, and Mystery, TylerD, et al seem very congruent and have had girls here all weekend. Very chilled out cool guys. Mystery’s new wife is a little ball of energy, and totally cute. Tyler bedded two girls in the same night, both from cold approach.
Meanwhile, Badboy seems like he may have something to offer, and I’m interested. But instead of focusing on content, he is coming across like a kid trying to get a rep by comparing himself to something that is bigger than he is. Like Benzino riding off of Eminem, as if to imply that contrast would equate to comparable value. And its transparent. Ironically, TD and Mystery still plug his program as friends to anyone travelling to Europe.
What Stryker suggested makes sense. If BB is really more than a bad stereotype of an obnoxious Croatian indoctrinating impressionable newbies on exaggerated “these is best in universe, all else crap” alpha hype, challenge the known field-proven guys, and prove it in real life.
Or continue riding off their coattails from behind the internet screen. Just realize that its transparent to all.
BZB
LOL…
I see new trend in this community, involving people into flame wars…just let me tell you this, guys that doesnt work on me…
you’ll never get me against TD, or make some fight between us, who is better etc…
we are too good friends…
doesnt matter as we are fighting on same markret…our programs, and what we offer are totally different, if you combine both of methods, you’ll have great game..
My workshops, actually aer not workshops, much more like a training program..like karate….combine TD workshop and mine together, you’ll have great game, I guarranty!!
I mean bguys , I will really dissapoint you, as I am not gonna continue this flamme war(like ross) last weekend.When I come to usa this summer, you’ll have opportunities to talk with my students\me…….
I really dont like this neg. energy here….
I dont need to prove anything, like does my stuff works in usa or not, I have my students reports in my lounge, and I see their results…
you dont need me, hook up with them…. emails are on website
I mean, guys this is really stupid, why the fuck you are U pushing me to write this kind of posts??You would make your improve your love life much more if you asked me to write article on some topic of Puing chicks….
Badboy
>You would make your improve your love life much more if you asked me to write article on some topic of Puing chicks….
Amen.
GoldenGoose, I’m sorry but you have no clue of what you are talking about… Eastern European countries (at least Poland and Croatia) are very different from the stereotype of Eastern Europe you might have…
Compared to average American girls here are hotter and one more thing which might be harder to accept or believe in for you: people here are generally better educated and [because of that] more intelligent on average. So actually your top-class high-iq American HB10 could be a mildly dumb HB9 in Poland and a mildly dumb HB8 in Croatia (for Croatian women are even hotter than Polish ones).
About the methods: the methods work first of all on the BIOLOGICAL woman, not on the social one. Things are very likely to work on both sides of Atlantic…since we are the same species below the social conditioning and working AGAINST the social conditioning is what most girls really find attractive. In other words, while the crazy Croatian will invade your shores, you might find that the classy American HBs will turn their attention to the cock of the wild passionate European leaving you and TD with women of mediocre quality.
Recoil
Recoil: Compared to average American girls here are hotter and one more thing which might be harder to accept or believe in for you: people here are generally better educated and [because of that] more intelligent on average. So actually your top-class high-iq American HB10 could be a mildly dumb HB9 in Poland and a mildly dumb HB8 in Croatia (for Croatian women are even hotter than Polish ones).
Badboy: you’ll never get me against TD, or make some fight between us, who is better etc.
You are the one making fights, not TD or me or anyone else. If you want to run down the Mystery and TD scene even though they are PROVEN with good looking women and seen by many people live and say that you have to undo the learnings from ASF and TD, then you had better be ready to come here and prove yourself. If not, shut the fuck up and don’t tell TD that he does not understand why direct is cooler than indirect. That implies your method is better. Come on over. Lets see it on a real woman with a brain in her head who is happy where she lives and does not want to migrate anywhere and is not poor and has real ambitions in the world.
Bullshit. Why dont you come over and have a look. I have been to Eastern Europe. Why do you think Americans buy Eastern European brides. They are poor, less smart, less sure of themselves and feminists and less picky. I have been there. The girls loved me. It is not the same thing.
From the World Bank Education Statistics:
Croatia: Gross enrollment ratio. primary 88.1%, secondary 83.1%, tertiary 32.6%
Poland: Gross enrollment ratio. primary 96.4%, secondary 97.6%, tertiary 24.7%
USA Gross enrollment ratio. primary 100%, secondary 95.2%, tertiary 72.6%.
Nightlife: Taco is a mexican dish.
I know. But Eastern Europe still has that low quality taco flavor to it. It’ll make you run to the can if you are not carefull.
Golden Goose, very alpha writing…
I live in London and have been to BadBoy’s workshop. I have been to US, all over Europe, Middle East, Far East etc. oh and Mexico (nice Tacos if you know where to look for them ). I helped him in his last London workshop.
I haven’t taken a MM or TD workshop, but have read their posts.
Have you considered whether the point in taking a workshop by some student is him learning some useful stuff that will improve his PU skills?
What I mean is that I don’t care what kind of a god the PUA teacher is, as long as I believe he’s above me. All I give a damn about is his ability to teach what he knows? Think about, for example would you converse with a self-proclaimed scientist who says he knows a lot of golden things but all that comes out of his mouth is shit.
The ability to have that connection with the students is very special. Even in academia, so many people are so knowledgeable about different fields, but are shit as teachers.
Same goes with PUAs? Now I’ve only been to BadBoy, and am not implying anything about anyone else’s workshop.
Great teachers are those who instill that feeling of expectation and confidence in you. To really expect that you can do things.
To me, much more important than the skill-set repertoire of the guy whose teaching me is his attitude toward me. BadBoy has the skill-set, but far more importantly he has the ability to understand you. The establishment of a good interpersonal relationship, to me is far more fundamental than any technique, on which any learning is based.
I don’t disagree with anyone’s method. I believe everybody should learn as many different things as they can and see which ones work for them. BadBoy’s way is expressive of him, his character, his emotional feelings and his attitude towards his students. Same goes for TD’s. And same goes for your way of expressing yourself.
I read guys’ posts asking BadBoy verbalizing his methods. One should understand that there are things you can write and there are thing you can’t. Like for example how the fuck are you gonna write and explain to people how to get confidence. You can ramble on the topic of вЂconfidence’, you can use NLP but you won’t get there, otherwise people would be holding flashcards for any feeling state they wanted.
Remember thing slike вЂenthusiasm is contagious’. These are things you can’t just write. These are things you experience when you are with certain people. These are not techniques, no lines, no routines, no future projections or cold reading… They come later, once you have the right state of mine.
And…What if a guy could show you the things that you know but haven’t done so or you don’t know you know, instead of giving you a checklist of a pile of routines to tick off. The former is what BadBoy does among other things. I always thought being simple is great and going to his workshop proved that.
Also, I haven’t seen or heard BB doing a PU while in workshop. He will demonstrate of course. But his eyes are on you – the student – the whole. He won’t go pushing for lay in workshop.
Lastly, What’s the fucking point in comparing chicks from Eastern Europe with US? You seem to like to chase after girls who you perceive are unattainable. You equate the_harder_to_get = hotter. Feel free but personally I don’t give a flying fuck about a stunning classy American woman in a tube top with a cocktail in her hand in the VIP section of an exclusive club. Especially in LA it’s a has air of artificialness. But that’s me. You have your own character and are free to feel attracted to these women.
Really I mean, to you it seems you love this oh so classy American woman with cocktail in her hand. Especially in the VIP section. That presupposes that you are also VIP, right?
And what is classy? I have seen some hi-class hookers holding cocktails in their hand?
Very few women in other parts of the world drink cocktails LOL, very few of them come out in tube tops LOL…
bars
And what is intelligence? Is having bitch-shield intelligence? Does your statistics allow for the geographical scatter within US or does it say the figure is harmonious over the country? Have you traced the origins of the educated people in US? Does the statistics allow for immigrant researchers, writers, business people who have migrated to US?
Magnet
I certainly don’t want to see flame wars between the Master PUAs, that doesn’t benefit our community.
My 2 cents: while I agree that practically any one of these “methods” will produce good results when practiced diligently and confidently, I am concerned by how *complex* the Seduction Scenario is becoming if we follow MM and TD. Not only are there distinct “phases” of the sarge, but the slightest error of showing too much interest in one phase, or too little in another, or the wrong kind of interest, and the whole process is broken, you have to eject, find another chick, and start again. I am supposed to chase her without chasing her, while convincing her that SHE is chasing ME! Just from a practical matter, so much “thinking on your feet” is required, with so little margin for error, that I seriously doubt that I could ever follow it with consistent success. I tend to make mistakes when, for example, I am hit with shit-tests and I am concentrating on something else.
Along comes Badboy who tells us to stand back and follow a simpler approach, one based upon confidence, body language, and self-knowledge. More than that, he seems to have a record of success that cannot be denied. So he cannot be dismissed as an idle boaster, as some are trying to do.
I am not a master PUA, and I confess that often I fare badly. But there have been times when I have done extremely well, and I have caused very desirable women to fall for me quite hard. As I look back about what I was doing when I have been so successful, I see a couple of common elements:
1. Social proof is (usually present). “A” sees me with “B”, so “A” thinks I must be some great guy. (I may be unsuccessfully trying to seduce “B”, but “A” doesn’t know that!)
2. Total Confidence (the most important factor). I don’t care about failure, I have nothing invested in the outcome of this particular seduction attempt. If I succeed that’s great, but even if I don’t I know that I’ll still have other good pussy available to me.
3. Early (and persistent) initiatation of sexual touching. Obviously I don’t do this in the first 5 minutes, but after we’ve been together at least an hour or 2. Also, this is only done in a private setting. I’m playfully grabbing for her tits, putting my hand down her blouse, up her dress, etc., whatever I can get away with. It’s all like a game, we’re laughing. She’s pulling my hand away, but a few minutes later I’m at it again. She says “stop”, but if she was really offended she’d get up and leave, so because she stays I’m soon at it again. We don’t have sex right away, but possibly later that night, or the next night. If this is done right, it is VERY powerful!
It is true that there are some differences between East European and American woman. American women are much more likely to verbally abuse men along standard feminist lines, and to have higher bitch shields. European women are much more feminine. But this doesn’t mean they’re necessarily ‘easier”, just that the KIND of shit they give you will be different. I went with a Polish woman for over 2 years, and while she was very different from American-born women, she was DAMN difficult! (But very, very sexy….)
Tenore
From my experience, in the past, when I used C&F, disinterest and other “cool” routines girls not gave a fuck who I am. Just another cool guy, but nobody who is attractive as a man. When I “improved” my game with gay routines things went worst. Zero sexual attraction.
Now, my game is based totally on alpha body language and attitude which convey that I am the best guy in club. That I have everything – power, cars, hot girls. Amazing, whatever I say – girls like me from the beginning. Without disinterest and other shit like that. Sometimes, they stay near me looking constantly on me waiting for approach and when I approach a girl she does all stuff to show, that SHE is enough attractive to get my attention. WOW!
Thanks to BadBoy I start new life….
Larkin
>Bullshit. Why dont you come over and have a >look. I have been to Eastern Europe.
Which country? Somehow I do get the feeling it was not Poland or Croatia. Especially if you have’t been to Croatia, please do so- the Polish women have the reputation of being hot…but I was amazed how sexy the Croatian ones are.
>Why do you think Americans buy Eastern European >brides.
>They are poor, less smart, less sure of >themselves and feminists and less picky. I have >been there. The girls loved me. It is not the >same thing.
They are more smart, sorry. As for great reactions to Americans, that’s true- being American makes the impression you have lots of cash-that is true. Then again BB and Shark sarge in Croatian, not English.
>From the World Bank Education Statistics:
>Croatia: Gross enrollment ratio. primary 88.1%, >secondary 83.1%, tertiary 32.6%
>Poland: Gross enrollment ratio. primary 96.4%,
>secondary 97.6%, tertiary 24.7%
>USA Gross enrollment ratio. primary 100%, >secondary 95.2%, tertiary 72.6%.
Sure… the problem is the LEVEL of education. Often Polish average students emigrate to USA start to get maximum grades.
>I know. But Eastern Europe still has that low >quality taco flavor to it. It’ll make you run to >the can if you are not carefull
Listen, I actually like Americans, I’m pro-war in terms of Iraq,etc etc , but all the American women I’ve seen IRL seem to have a taste of high-fat level hamburgers. And if they are smart, then OMG, I don’t know many people who are not.
Recoil
Badboy appears to have been quite threatened by the comments that showed up on this blog. Given that he clearly emailed all of his ex-students to request of them to simultaneously out of nowhere post up painfully long replies like this. It seems unusual behaviour from the scene’s true blue alphamale. Were all of the “objective” reviews, posted by his manager Nightlife, not sufficient?
-BZB
Belzebub,I’m really curious- are you TD or are you just one of his henchmen?
Recoil
Guys, I posted a report to appear on Cliff’s List about Badboy concerning his recent workshop in Amsterdam.
In a word, “Amazing.” This guy is one of the best teachers I have ever seen in this community.
Every bit as big — if not bigger — than he claims to be. He delivers on his word.
Watch out for the report on Cliff’s List. Maybe if Thundercat wants to, he can also post it here.
stRiPPed
Recoil, do you have any evidence that Polish or Croatian women are inherently more intelligent than American women? If not, then I’ll just call bullshit. I have some lady friends at Harvard and Penn that I’m sure would agree.
Your posts here seem to be just a regurgitation of the classic “Fat, lazy, stupid American” stereotype, which of course ignores the fact that the US somehow manages to pump out among the best athletes and scholars in the world. Not to mention the US’s reputation regarding innovation…
Personally, from what I’ve read, I don’t doubt BB’s stuff works well anywhere and Golden Goose was out of line to pull the nationality card.
Look Belzbubb it would be better for you that you post some constructive commnents and ask questions(like your teacher TD does) instead of just “flame like mad”…we can all guess what your skill is that way
SHARK
My dad can beat up your dad! My dick is bigger than yours! My car does more vroom vroom thaan yours! My country has more intelligent women than yours!
pathetic.
Badboy is selling to us. At $2000 for a workshop it doesnt sound to me like he selling to his next door neighbor. If he wants to sell to us he needs to learn some respect for us and our country. Mystery and TD and that crew are selling to us too. They also demonstrate their methods on American women in America. Badboy needs to come here and demonstrate. Since he is making $2000 per workshop in real money rather than to Croatian money he can afford the air-fare. His posts are offensive to my ears. All the patronizing laughing out loud (LOL) at TD mocking him like he is clueless jars on my ears.
Recoil: They are more smart, sorry. As for great reactions to Americans, that’s true- being American makes the impression you have lots of cash-that is true.
I know. When you are in Eastern Europe all you have to do is speak to them in English and they will speak back. They like the passport. They want to practice their English. If you all want to do workshops for Americans in Eastern Europe you should say that it is a mail-order bride meeting agency. There is nothing wrong with that. There is a large market of American men who want to meet Eastern European women because men find it so tough with American women, and there is a whole bunch of guys who would prefer the simplicity of Eastern European girls.
Recoil: Sure… the problem is the LEVEL of education. Often Polish average students emigrate to USA start to get maximum grades.
It is good to know that the University of Kosovo is better than Stanford or Harvard or MIT or Berkley. I will encourage everyone to enroll there. I believe you. Really. Truly. Your statement has convinced me. Not! Oxford in England may have some claim to being equal, but the University of Bulgaria or Albania or fucking Romania are not. Regardless the numbers tell you that when you approach a girl in America there is a 72% chance she is a college grad. That is different from Eastern Europe. Are you or Badboy college grads? If not and you are speaking to your 72% of American women that are, and she says that she has a Masters Degree in Existentialist Literature from Northwestern and asks what you do, are you going to be intimidated?
Recoil: all the American women I’ve seen IRL seem to have a taste of high-fat level hamburgers. And if they are smart, then OMG, I don’t know many people who are not.
So you are telling me that Americans are fat, ugly and stupid. That includes me as well as Badboys potential customers. I was robbed by a dirty little Yugoslavian at knife point while I was in Prague. He was dirty. He was little. He had a knife. He was Yugoslavian. If I had got my corn fed American fat hands around his scrawny Eastern European neck I would have squashed the vermon like a the rodent he is. You are telling me now that we are all fat, ugly and stupid. I have news for you. It was fat, stupid America you went running to when you could not sort out your internal fighting in Yugoslavia. It was America that was the only counterbalance when you were living under the grip of communism. Go to your local magazine stand and have a look at the women on the covers of all those magazines. That is it, like Brittany Spears. They are American women. Turn on your television and have a look at the actresses. Yeah, like Alicia Siverstone. They are American women. Go to the cinema and see your favorite starlett. Yeah, like that chick that was the female Terminator. They are American women. Buy some porn and look at the Porn Stars. Yeah, like Jenna Jamison. They are American women. How can you say they are fat and ugly? The Eastern European scorn for America is laughable.
haha…
golden bro….
I would fly to states tommorow, If your country would let me in…. till szmmer(when I get visa) I will be stucked in europe+canada probably…..
badboy
Hey hey hey,
Thundercatseductionlair is coming alive with the ‘discussions’…. LOL
‘Discussing’ the differences between US girls and East Europe girls… Haaah. Waste of time. I tell you.. my dig is much bigger then yours.. (Like Balh said)
The ‘discussion’ if Badboy can sarge US girls…. why bother? Who cares? If the workshop is good for you is all that matters…… He will come to US he says, so why do any drama… See it yourself when he gets there.
Wanne talk if TD can sarge girls in Turkey? Does RJ really pick up hot women? Can Craig do any highfives in Amsterdam? Mystery married? Who cares… Focus on you own game to get better. Chair seducers can post about it like crazy…. And they don’t sarge girls in real life. They have girly drama’s about it….. lol
Still I am always surprised if people ‘attack’ others who want to do their best to help…. But I know we don’t live in the ideal world where flaming wusses don’t exist…
Pfff.. I go sarge and have fun. Go sarging and get hot girls. Fieldtest your stuff! Post your FR’s and have feedback from PUA’s…
Male
P.s.: Close thread.
The real question here is: Who’s method is going to win out? Sure they can co-exist, but people are always looking for “The Best.”
This is an interesting question regarding the TD vs Badboy debate. One should wonder, is there really one best method that works for all SHB10+? What I see in the community is that there are several good methods like RJ’s SS / DyD / Mystery / TD / Badboy etc…. All these methods have in the past (and present) proven their effectiveness in seducing women. The question is how effective are YOU in using these methods. Just try out what works for you and stick to it…. thats my 2 cents on this topic.
GoldenGoose,
What numbers show that 72% of American women have college degrees? I can tell you that is no where near that.
According to a USA today article, around 80% of Americans have a high school diploma (http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2002-06-05-education-census.htm#more) with 15.5% having earned a 4 year degree. Just *slightly* lower than your 72% figure.
I’d imagine that the 4-year figure is still well above average relative to the rest of the world though….maybe even the highest?
GoldenGoose, Recoil lives in Poland your biggest european ally so he should not be blamed “for fall of Yugoslavia”…I just couldn’t help myself to comment:)
harp, it seems too high to me too. I was only using the percentage gross enrollment in tertiary. My guess is that hair-dresser school is counted in that or something (similarly in all other countries). The stat comes from here:
http://devdata.worldbank.org/edstats/cd1.asp
Choose the US from the dropdown menu.
harp, I just looked at your article. It is census data. That means that it does not change quickly. All those 85 year olds without tertiary from last year are 86 year olds this year still without tertiary, and says nothing of the young generation. That means that we still have trends from 60 or 70 years ago in those numbers. The 100% of the population from which the 15% that have college degrees is part of include all the little children too young in the population and all the immigrants and all the old women who came through before womens lib, etc. I am not sure if the US is the best in the world. I am sure that some of the little countries with 3 million people like Norway or Luxomberg might do better. They have a higher average income than us and no inner city slums.
GoldenGoose, come on.
“The Eastern European scorn for America is laughable.” – actually the country in which I live (Poland) is the most pro-USA country in Europe, including UK. We also have a contingent of troops in Iraq working together with US army…and I support that. So what’s your problem? The average American seems to be not very well educated and often has got a weight problem, but Americans are in the first 10 of my favourite nations,due to fine qualities in other areas.
The USA is the world leader in many things (armed forces,economy,science,etc etc) but not in others (education of the common citizen,weight control). Am I a foe of USA because of this opinion?
GoldenGoose, if you want to continue this ,please do it privately over email, this is quite off-topic
Recoil
My milkshake brings all the girls to the yard….my way Is better than yours.
I mean like DAMN. This is suppose to be a site for information on how to nail chicks. It’s turned in to a debate of races and country’s and shit, by people like goose. Fuck you goose, you ARE a FUCKING MORON. When I was reading all this shit I was telling myself not to lose my temper, but i’ve had a shitty day. So bare with me. Let me see if I can bring everybody back to bussines by further explaining what Badboy meant.
Thank you.
Question: What is goГЇng to happen to a chick when you walk up to her with full confidence and full backbone and say to her in a with a seductive voice and tonality and say. Your cute, I wan’t to cuddle with you. The girl is goГЇng to melt! And she’ll turn in to a wuss! This is why they start to talk so much and do their best to make themselfs seem good to you. Remember back to the times when you were not a PUA yet. If a girl had walked up to you and said, your cute, I wan’t to kiss you. You’d probably faint. Or turn in to a wuss. This is excaclty what happens to the girl. She turns in to a wuss. Now guys I respect what the other people are saying. Thing’s like: but will it work in America to? It still has to be field tested there. Wich is excaclty what badboy is goГЇng to do! There’s no need to turn this in to a racial conflict (Goose you cocksucker). Just because of the way Badboy writes your instantly thinking that he’s saying that his method is better. Don’t be such a baby. Simple: Use wich ever method works best. Different methods work best in different parts of the world! All methods are usable and good. Just use wich ever works best. Pure logic man.
Peace.
The Darkchild.
That’s BS man. All this ‘different parts of the world = different PU’. Nonsense. I’ve been around dude. I KNOW this.
In that case what your trying to say is that it doesen’t matter in wich part of the world you do it, it’s the same thing right? That’s even better I’m very sure that badboys method works just as well as any other method. In short what this method does is: Charm the womans pants off. Turning her in to a wuss. That’s why she starts rambling on and on about nonsens. She’s nervous because you had the guts and confidence to walk up to her and say something like: Hey you, your cute. I wan’t to get to know you better. The trick is to say something very daring that she doesen’t expect, and do it in a confident seductive way. Not like a wuss! The woman feels overwelmed by your aproach and doesen’t know what to do except start rambling her mouth off like a wuss in the pathetic hope that you think she is quallified enough for you to like her.
This method does cost less time and effort. I like it. This doesen’t mean that other methods can’t compete with this one. You just have to use the method that you like best.
This is an old thread now that was written during a very different time in terms of anti-Americanizm.
But still, it is bullshit that different places are not different. Bullshit. Does Mystery Method work in Afghanistan? Doubt it. Does “I like you” work in a Greek village? Does it work in the Jungles of Kenya? Who knows. Does it work in the USA? Who knows. It has to be tried here and proven yet. There is NO-ONE who has taken a badboy workshop who has risen to pre-eminence here as a PUA. I have heard bad stories about one guy in particular who is awful with women. The question is still open.
GoldenGoose,
Reading your replies I could see that you are probably the kind of person who has a point of view and then won’t bulge from that point-of-view no matter what. How about following TD’s example, I guess, and be open to different point-of-views and revise/update your own as you hone your skills of empathy.
Speaking of stereotypes, don’t reply with another defensive post. That’ll enforce the American stereotype of… Ignorance.
PS. there is a biological part in women that goes WAY deeper than the social persona of the woman.
PPS. I come from Finland in case you are wondering (not the States or from an Eastern block nation.)
My dad can beat up your dad! My dick is bigger than yours! My car does more vroom vroom thaan yours! My country has more intelligent women than yours!
Jenna Jameson?
i think badboy’s method is best for my personality, but..
Just use wich ever works best for you.
Pure logic man.
Уржался))) COOL!
Уржался))) COOL!
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